government when he was in philadelphia at the convention that would have minimized the role of the states to the point where they didn't matter all that much. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. ..

the soaped of the engines, hearing the historic christmas broadcast on christmas eve. and feeling the collective excitement when the crew splashed down safely. i'm truly honored to be here tonight to celebrate the apollo 8 mission, and its trail-blazing crew. they risked absolutely everything to show the world the possibilities of space exploration. the support of a"low 8 embody everything the museum holds deer: curiosity, passion, and the willingness to push the limit's possible. but that kind of work is never easy. there were many, many big challenges, big risks, and a very, very real danger for themselves, their families, and our country. the result is bun of the most

spectacular scientific and technical feats of all-time. putting humans into lunar orb get and letting i'm eyes see the -- letting human eye seize the far side of the moon for the first time. the is led to remarkable advancements in stem fields and stories and images captivated the world. but you leave i invite you to visit apollo 8 in the space center. what the here tore u tonight accomplished in this capsule is astounding, if you have not seep the capsule you will not believe how toothily they wering to. -- hoe toothily they were together. no surprise that nearly 50 years late their story of apoll low 8 continues to inspire. rye mains a powerful example of what we can accomplishing to when vision, passion, and determination, allow to us see past obstacles and limitations.

again, please join me in a round of applause for the apollo 8 crew. frank boreman, jim love and bilanders. [applause] now i would like to introduce kurson am great friend of nsi, the agrees book kept me up way past bedtime last night. robert kurson. [applause] >> thank you for come ago hewitt here.

the turnout is extraordinary. i'd like to thank the following people, david, brad, maurice, and everybody at the museum of science and industry torose michiganation event and running a first class operation. to random house, my publisher for producing a beautiful book. susie, my wife, amy, my boys nate and will, my brewer ken, sister jane other, family and friends who support met doing the writing of "rocket men." more than anythinged i'd like to thank the three apollo 8 crew crewmen. and especially like to thank susan wereman, marilyn love and van valerie anders, without whom i came to see clear the and early on this mission could not have appeared inlearned unforgettable leton out above and fourth from these women. with that element me tell you how rocket men got its liftoff.

in late 2014 i took friends to this very place, the groot miami of science and industry chicago. every kid h gu in the area has the museum in his or her dna. a place of field trips and adventure, discovery and giant cafeterias and getting lost in great halls, of things larger and smaller than life. it is heaven. i had taken those friends to see u505 the german u-boat, a perfect match for the submarine i wrote about. on then way out we crane across a space caple, seven feet to all, 1 feet wide. appeared to be scared from the journey and its open hatch revealed three cramped seats and a universe of controls inside. kid circled around the spacecraft which looked to have come from the past and the future. a nearby black card announced this was the command module of apollo 8 which carried the first

men ever, frank borman, jim love, and bill anders to the moon. i new almost nothing but in mission. was familiar with the story of apollo 11, man's first lunar lanning and apollo 13, a few days later i got around to reading out apollo 8. i one of the most incredible stories in american history. apoll he 8 had everything. daring, adventure, risk taking, race against time that kim down to the final hours, and existential battle against the magnificent adversary. blended cutting edge science and technology with the eternal human year,ing to explore. it told of the power of three unbreakable women and the love of children and family, of america's ability to do the impossible when push to its limits, of the moment when mankind first reached the place that called to it for eternal, the moon. it told of a single photograph taken by bill anders, that became among the most famous of

all-time, and that changed how humanity viewed effort. it told us how three men lift extraordinary lives after becoming the first over to leave this world. it was even a christmas story. the more i read mountain apoly 8 the more startling it seemed so little had been written about the best space story came across interviews with the late neil armstrong, the first man to set foot on the moon and himself a back-up crew member for apollo 8. >> he remember educate they'd had been, and how it changed the course of the entire american space program. an enormously bold decision, he told an interview are on film. but it was the way he said enormously that stayed with me. in ways it sounded like armstrong thought apoll lie 8 to be an even bigger leap for mankine than landing on the moon. other astronauts and has some

person mel said. when asked to compare apollo 8 restaurant mike collins say, as yaw look lack 100 years from now, which is more important, apoll low 8 or pay poll low 1 , i think you so aapollo 8 was more significant than apollo 11. for nasa's legendary flight director it was simple. cook more courage to make the decision to do apollo 8 than anything we ever did in the pace program. none of these men remembered having dry eyes as borman, love veil anders spoke to the world on crimes christmas each all of them, more than any that lynn listen to a human voice at once remember what they said

maybe even more important, to beat america's cold war enemy, the soviet union in race to send the first men to the moon. by the summer of 1968 things looked bleak on both frond, development of the lunar lander that would move astronauts from to orbiting ship to the lunar surface and back threatened to stall the apollo probable and put the kennedy deadline out of reach. a top secret memo was issued by american intelligence officials warning that the soviets might send mend around the moon as early as 1968. nasa had no plans to send the men to the moon was 1968 and expended to try try in 1970.

but the that time a cosmonaut might already have reached the moon and that be more than just the greatest technological achievement in history. it would be a definitive victory for the soviets and the space race and powerful arguing that their science, their political skim and their way of life were superior the moon landing would still mart but no win woulds can we get there? i by tom title our greatest enemy would have appeared we already did. but what did nasa do? the lunar module was not ready to go and looked like apollo just had to wait. then a quiet map had an epiphany. at 41 years of em, george lowe was a top manage fer one of me most people as nat a in charge of make sugar the apollo spacecraft was flight bury. a precise and serious man, who subjects and verbs all agreed, even while he gave dictation who would sun bag on the weekend with his brief case beside him,

never missing a chance to think or plan, and here was george lowe's plan for america. instead of waiting for the lunar mod dual to be made ready he proposed senting a manned flying to moon without one. that meant the astronauts would not land but rather orbit for ten revolutions over 20 hours, at an altitude of just 69-miles. but not lanking hardly matters. if nasa could get men around the monsoon, really soon, the apollo program could be kept moving, they could approve the procedures necessary for makal a lunar landing and america hat had other fighting chance to beef -- beat sew the vote. lowe and craft decide that would be apollo 8 and would have in four months time. in december 1968. when nasa's top administeryear and boss, james webb, first heard of the plan, he screamed

into the phone and this is a quote, are you out of your mind? you're putting the agency and in the whole program at risk. and he was right. ordinarily it took 12 to 18 months for nasa too plan a space mission and for its astronauts and engineers and controllers to train for it. now, lowe was proposing that it in only four months and that was just the start of the madness. to fly to the moon in late december 1968, apollo would go without a lunar mad module and could not land on he line but was a backup engine, going without it meant if apollo eight's singlening general failed or malfunctioned the crew could smash into the lunar surface or be stranded the lunar orbit or fly off to the sun know, come home. then was the matter thief wrong. on the saturn 5 bass -- was

powerful enough but the saturn 5 had never flown with men aboard and had only been tested twice. the second of which hat been a near disaster. now lowe was proposing the rocket's third ever flight take three men, each of whom had children and families 240,000-miles away to a place no human has ever days venture. piled high on these risks were a smorgasbord of others. deal with them in my book and must tell you any of them can make your heart stop. often when i was writing i would remove my glasses, push myself airplane from the computer and say out loud i cannot believe these guys did. the and there was a final danger and i wanted to mention it here but a it was the gravest. james webb said, if these three men are stranded out there and die in lunar orbited, webb said, no one, lovers, poets no one, will ever look at the moon the same way again.

no one had considered that. but it was true of christmas, too, borman, lovell and anders war be in the lunar orbit on december 25th. if the died then compliments would never be the same? s her or all the world. every year it by a tragic reminder of a mission gone wrong. so we are all at risk when apollo was ready on the lawn pad on december 21, 1968. if nasa could pull it off, if borman, love veil and ander could pull it off. think of what the small spacecraft, the one on display in this museum could. do it could deal a devastating blow to an enemy. it could help the united states come together at the end of one of its mow terrible and divisive years. could deliver human beings to a place they dreamed of going since man kind first walked the earth. and with that i introduce you to frank borman, jim lovell and

bill anders, their first men ever to leave agency and to arrive at the moon. [applause] applause. [applause] [applause] >> okay, gentlemen, here we go. frank, you told me early on that by the time the mission changed for apollo 8 came in you already believed you had one of the finest crews nasa ever assembled. what made you confident the niece guys and your in yourself. >> well, i firmly believed at that time and believe it even more strongly now, of course, jim and i had spent 14 dales in gemini 7 and that was a

grinding, grueling flying, something like that you spend two week in a volume smaller than the front seat of a volkswagen beetle witch got so friendly that toward the end of the flight we were both sharing a toothbrush. >> we declared we are engaged after we got down. >> we got out of the spacecraft, walked up on the carrier and the first thing lovell sis is frank and i want to announce our engagement. and bill anders was known through the astronaut corps as a hard core, hard working, competent guy, and i trusted him. we didn't have time to fool around. in four months we had to do it, and it was -- i was right. these are the best guys that ever flew. >> jim, you were originally training for a low earth orbital mission. can you describe what it felt

like to have your flying changed to the first manned mission to the moon? >> well, it's an interesting story we were going to do an earth orbital mission, take lunar module into earth orb bit and tested, separate, and bill was the lunar module pie lot and then come back. after that we discharge the lunar module, go up to ohio and come back as if we were coming back to fro the moon two thing happen in the summer of 1968 that change the whole thing. this first thing was the fact that we had intelligence information, i think that robert mentioned it, that the russians were going to put a man on -- circumnavigate the moon. just go out and come back and the second thing we found out was the fact that groupen air grumman acraft wouldn't get ready for a 16968 flight.

they said the earliest would be 1969 before we would have this engine ready. so we changed the mission. as i think robert mentioned, robert lowe started at nasa headquarters, thought of this idea about sending foods 8 to the moon if apollo 7 was successful on earth orbit credible. and we were in california testing the command module and they called frank to come home to houston and that's when they announced to frank that they were changing the mission and then frank came back and told us. so it was quite a change in that short period of time. >> bill, as i mentioned the saturn 5, still the most powerful machine ever built to this day, had been tested only twice before apollo 8, both timed unmanned and the second test, as chriscraft, -- chit

kraft explained it was near disaster. >> frank had a major role in not only checking out the spacecraft after the fire, but also specialized in follying the rocket development, almost as soon as he came and the program. and he'd been trained in cal tech and others in that kind of thing, and so i figure if frank expected it and i had confidence in his able, i thought it was a great way to serve my country and show the world that the united states system and capitalism and free enterprise was a better way to go than the soviet union approach. >> bill, when you talk but serving your country, one of the first things you told me when i asked you about the dangers and worry but risking your life was your thinking but your brothers

in vietnam at the time. can you talk but that? >> always embarrassed me when people would say that was so dangerous on apollo 8. and yet we all had colleagues in vietnam who were being shot at. frankly, chasing russians over the north sea and ice happen, which i was doing not too along before that, i considered more dangerous even of the apollo was dangerous, more dangerous than apollo 8. >> jim, there's so much we could discuss about the training but i want to get to the flight because so much happened. i love the story you told me about ride drag the top of the launch tower on launch day and while bill and frank were getting in to the command module you had occasion to look down to the crowd below and to lights. can you tell us about that? >> yes. we arrived at the saturn 5 before light, very early in the morning, and we went up the

gantry, the elevator occupy 360 feet, and then there was sort of a railing and a little bridge that bill and frank walked across into the command module itself. there was only room enough force those two and i just stayed behind and i thought i looked down, and i could see the lights of the press corps coming into their spots pout that time and i thought to myself, they're going to end us to the moon? finally dawned on me, this is not a gemini flying this time. am i sure i want to go? and then i followed bill and frank into the spacecraft and got put in and i said i guess they're serious about this. >> and bill you told me something incredible that at some point while strapped into your seat, and awaiting liftoff on man's first downy to the moon you fell asleep. is that possible and how does

that happen with an hour or two to go. >> it was clearly nothing muching could do. he checked all the switches and everything was in the right position and i thought no sense of getting all work up about this. so i fell asleep. probably longest sleep i had on the whole flight. [laughter] >> i may want to reconsider this about the crew. [laughing] >> before the flight i had a full head of hair. >> frank, you mentioned to me that the average age of those who programmed your trajectory know moon was 24. >> say again extra. >> the average age of those who programmed the trajectory to the moon was 24 years old. did that give you any pause climbing? >> now know, one of the

remarkable thing about nasa, people there were willing to subordinated every factor of their life, they're family, halve, everything to the success of the mission. we were very fortunate to exist and work in that kind of an environment. they all from the -- from jim webb, the administrator down to the lowest employee at nasa, wanted to win-wanted to beat the russians to the moon and i always very, very confident and grateful in being in that kind of an environment, and i tell you something else. when you work for somebody in nasa, if you didn't do your job, you didn't work there tomorrow. it was that kind of an environment. weren't such things as microaggressions or safe spaces. [laughter] [applause] >> i love it.

keep in mind that the cellphone i have in my pocket has more computing pawer than the whole nasa control room. they were -- >> i didn't know that until you told me today. i didn't, really. >> now he's worried. >> before apollo 8 no human had ever rid then saturn 5 or experienced that kind of power. i know how toland for it and they tried to simulate it, but, bill, what was the actual experience like. >> after jim woke me up just before launch, in fact there was a little bug that was making mud nest and i thought you're in for a surprise here. but when the rocket lit off, it was so noisy. even these guys who had flown before, i don't think had the

noise hope to initial 20 seconds before we cleared the tower. but it was so noisy, that had i noticed anything wrong on the instrument panel, which was vibrating like mad and i couldn't see it anyway, i couldn't have communicated to them. and as we lifted slowly, the huge engines were gimbleing at the bottom and we were like a lady bug on the end of it, i loan allege old-fashioned antenna a on your car, and it was violent. frank was smart enough to take his hand off the abort handle for fear -- like any other fighter polite, rather be dead than screw up. >> that's true. >> once we cleared the tower, which i thought we were bouncing up with the fin, once we cleared the tower things started to smooth out it and was manageable. >> you have to see the size of that saturn 5 to appreciate it.

the one thing that always sticks in my mind, still the most powerful machine ever built and burned for a second, you often keep me honest -- something like 5,000-gallon's fuel a second. >> 15 tons. >> how much. >> 15 tons. it wasn't number 9 coal either. >> and one second. >> one second. >> jim, apollo 8 was the first time mankind had ever seen earth as a full sphere. what because isit like to see such a saying and watch the earth grow smaller as you sped toward the mon. >> that was probably the high point of my flight to finally get to the moon and as we came around the moon, we suddenly saw the earth, which is a small blue ball, and i said this many times, when i first looked it's issue put my thumb up and could

hide the earth behind my thumb and everything ever knew was behind my thumb. i suddenly realized, a different perspective of my position in the universe, the earth itself is just a small planet around the solar system of -- consisting of nine planets, and in our galaxy the earth is mere lay speck, and in our universe, it just is lost in oblivion. so suddenly realize how -- what we're doing and how we got there and how faithful, our lucky we are that we had a body that had the proper weigh of the proper mass to have gravity that contains water and an atmosphere that was necessary for life, and that orbiting a star at just the

right distance, toot to far out to be too cold in too close to be too hot but just right to absorb the star's energy and that energy caused life to evolve in the beginning. so i felt very, very lucky. >> frank, you had never -- you been flying since age 15, if i remember contributely, and you had never been sick before on an airplane or even two weeks aboard gemini 7 with jim. but suddenly you're on your way to moon and something happens. can you describe that? >> yes, sometime after we were in route to the moon i got up out of the couch to take a rest period and we slept in kind of like a sleeping bag closure under the seats. and i got down in that and i began to feel nauseous and sick, and sure enough i was sick, and i can't explain. at the time i thought it was because i had taken a sleeping

pill. and i thought -- but i think now looking back it was probably an example of motion sicking in, but jim and i had never had it in 14 days on gemini 7, even though were tumbling a lot without -- we locked direction and control fuel but i suspect it was that. >> bill you gave me the most fascinating, even el grant description how frank's sickness made its way through the cabin. would be remice to not ask you -- >> have you get a bag? >> careful, careful. >> without embarrassing frank, there was a rather unpleasant smell, and i grabbed an oxygen max -- mask which supposed to only be used for fire, jim said you can't use that. i said the hell with that. pretty soon he had one on, too.

but out of theway came this slightly birth than a golf-ball-size orb and it was kind of disgusting. then my physicist mind took over because it had a three dimensional flexing to it and i thoughting are that is fascinating. and it started coming up in the general vicinity of jim and i, and then it broke apart, and one went this way and as conservation momentum demand, the other one win right at jim lovell's chest, and never forget his eyes following this like an omelet. >> robert, i want to thank you for bringing that up. >> you brought it up.

>> when i spoke to chris kraft he explained this was a serious situation and the contemplated ordering the mission bag back. would you have followed orders or kept going. >> no way on god's green earth i was going to cancel it because i had -- because i puked a couple of times. just no way. and frankly, be very candid, i was concerned because the medical profession at that time was very anxious to make its name in the space medicine business and i thought some of the actors drown would get in and beat their chest and say, for the health of the crew we have to bring them home. i wasn't going to come home if i had a heart attack. >> jim and i didn't decide at the time but i'm sure beg of us thought that if he really was sick we'd just throw him out the

hatch and go by ourselves. >> we were going to go one way and that's it. >> but it all worked out. >> well, fascinating to me to learn even in the last minutes of the outbound journey you had not spotted the moon and mission controlled ask the what you were seeing and ju said nothing, it's like being on the inside of a submarine but that changed with a minute do toe go before the spacecraft was scheduled to lip behind me moon. jim you said we'll see you on the other side, and bill what you were seeing changed. can you take us through that. >> we were first of all went out of sight of the earth so the earth shine which is pretty bright, made is sue stars and then we went into the lunar shadow so we were in the double umbra to get technical and just made so many stars visible that you couldn't see constellations. just even the dimmest stars were

bright. so a mass of stars then he looked back and here was this big black hole, and the hair win up on the back of my neck and that was in the balloon blotting out all the other stars and it still gives me a little erie feeling with that. >> so soon enough you become the first three humans ever to lay eyes on the far side of the moon. can you describe that moment and if there were any surprises to you when you first saw it. >> i think that we were like three school boys looking through a candy story window. we fought the flying plan and 60 miles below was the lunar surface and we all describe what we saw. looked like maybe cement that has been -- a pick hit it and splat erred all the dust all

around the hole. it was quite a sight. we had pictures of the far side before we got there but this is the first time that people live at actually soon the far side. it was quite an experience to see how the son produced the shadow's the lunar surface with no storm atmosphere, it was very stark. >> the pictures taken by soviet unmanned spacecraft were very poor resolution so it was a surprise how rough the back side looked. >> any surprises when you saw the back side of the moon. >> i hadn't candidated the geology as much as jim and bill ahead. was something nobody had ever seen before. totally interesting and i was fascinated, and then i went back to looking at what we were supposed to be looking at.

>> hint, hint. [laughter] >> frank said, we're here, let's good home. [laughter] >> i think there's some truth in that. because frank when you were planning the mission at first you wanted one export that was it. don't want to mess around further than that nasa insisted you should do more and they won the argument. why did you relent in that argument? >> well, this is another interesting thing about the nasa of our era. ordinarily the plan -- the flying plan to create a flight plan for a flight like that would take months, five or six months-but nasa was led by unique people, and chris kraft is one of them. the only one still alive. we met in his office one afternoon at 1:00, with a group of his experts, and by 5:00 we had planned and four hours, a

flying plan weapon achieved a flying plan at that time was essentially unchanged and basically due to his leadership my main concern in the whole flying was to get there ahead of the russians and get home. that was a significant achievement in my goal -- in my eyes but a kraft was right. we needed to get the most question future flights well settles on ten flights but that was the wonderful thing. looked around at the meeting and people now -- knew what they were doing. fortunately wasn't anybody there from washington. [laughter] [applause] >> now that we're near chicago, i could say there was nobody there from springfield, em, either.

but -- [applause] >> but that was nasa at that time. really competent people that knew what they were doing, and a's. and the boss is kraft, if you cho chris kraft you know where you stand with him. either in good or you're out. i think we were blessed as a country to have leaders like that. >> jim, just after the first of the two tv broadcasts from the moon, you reported something that might have sounded strange to mission control. after describing several famous landmarks you then said, i can see the old second initial point here very well. mt. maryland. aren't lunar land marks supposed to be named after ancient explorers. >> we had some pictures, photographs of the near side of the moon, and we were lookal

another our orbits around the moon, and the sore of the sea of tranquility was a little triangular mountain that pointed sort of into whether where we thought the first landing go into into. which turned out to be apollo 1. so just have jokingly i told bill and trapping, i'm nameing this mt. maryland and then apollo 10 went there later on and did what was called an approach and an abort which was part of the team just to see if they worked okay. and they took a picture of mt. maryland as is it passed by and then on apollo 11 they used mt. maryland as the initial point to start the landing some the sea of tranquility. well, the name got a life of its open. started to show up in various

publications and then books and when apollo 13 came out we meat some mt. maryland -- they talk about apollo 8, and finally i petitioned people to -- the international astronomical unit can we maim this mt. marylander? they says we name this after ancient philosophers and astronomer. have to be kidding. that was about 2014. and then fortunately they -- someone up there said, we a little romance with this program. just can't have all these. and so eventually this last july, mt. maryland was officially named, and i is there now and in perpetuity this little triangular mountain on the near side of the moon will always be there. [applause]

>> during apollo 8's fourth orbit -- i want to make al argue. that one of the most important thing now. history occurred. you all witnessed a scene that had you scrambling four your cameras. bill, can you describe what happened then because you are about to take one of the most powerful and important photographs of all-time. >> one of my secondary jobs, primary job was to make sure the spacecraft worked, systems all performed like they should, but was to take pictures of the lunar surface and had an extremely ambitious schedule of every minute, every second, taking a picture this bay and that way. nobody had thought about taking any pictures of the earth, and i think jim or somebody and said, maybe frank, i, look at that. suddenly here was this beautiful

fragile looking planet, our home planet, coming up and particularly as emphasized over the stark lunar horizon, i grabbed a camera, i think frank says that's not on the flying plan, pill, don't take it -- he was just kidding, but -- [laughter] -- i grabbed a big long lens and frank didn't want me to take in the first place, and finally talked lovell into getting me some column and started machine gunning this thing weapon had no lying meter, no training in taking anything but lunar surface and just changed the f stop and started clicking away and one of the pictures -- not a world class anselm adams time picture put was the iconic earthrise picture. >> he was the photographer for this.

but i told -- >> both jim and frank claimed they took it. >> what impression did the sight of earthrise make on you when you saw it? >> well, of course, it was quite magnificent, and it kept in our minds -- we didn't know really the significance of bill's picture until we got home, and other people started to see really what they had to live with. what they were living on. i think that was perhaps one of the most significant aspects of the apollo 8 flight because it brought people back into a position of -- that the earth is small, and that theoretically we should all bye, wog together and this -- and just one photograph told everything. >> i might observe that somewhere along the line, i made

the comment that it's ironic that we came to explore the moon and what we discovered was the earth. >> that's -- i think a famous statement that bill made, that we went to explore the moon and we instead we really discovered the earth. >> host: with seven hours remaining at the moon you needed to prepare not just to leave lunar orbit but for your final television broadcast. both of these were critically important almost of the mission but by this opinion it's clear forgot reading the flying transcript you were expired starting to make mistakes. i'd like to read what you said to your crew mates because it occurred on christmas eve. >> launch the language, please. >> i have a lot of red pen in here. it occurred on christmas eve and sound so much like many conversations people 0 earth have every christmas eve in

their own homes. go to bed. get going. think this is a closed issue. get to bed. no, you get to bed. guess your ass to bed. i don't want to talk about it. shut up go to sleep. both you guys. >> really grumpy. >> don't worry about the camera exposure business, damnity, anders, get to bit. you only have a couple of hours before we have to be fresh again. frank issue wrote in the book that even at the moon it's a military chain of command and you were the commander. is that how you saw it? >> no. this was a collaborative effort and jim and bill were so motivate trying to take pictures that i was concerned that they wouldn't be alert for the earth orbital injection, tei and i was very concerned.

matter of fact i began -- anders was slurring and lovell was going to sleep on the job, so -- [laughter] -- there might have been a chain of command and we governor military guys but i didn't close my eyes once, just kept watching the moon go by. >> it was a -- look, we had a great crew. we got along and never in the repercussion and we finally got our ass to bed. that was simple. >> kneeing are the end of your lunar orbit you made for final division profit before the moon. weeks've liftoff, nasa told you more people would be listening to your royce, a third of the world's population. surely nasa gave you the strict geeze guidance was to say on such momentous occasion. >> this one over great hallmarks of our country because the only strucks related to me when i

asked them about the lunar broadcast on christmas christmai said do you have a script? the only instruction i got from nasa, from the government, was to do something appropriate. and so -- that's remarkable. can you imagine what would happen if we had been russians n there would have been yelling about lenin and everybody else. i came back and talked to jim and bill, and we all tried for quite a while to figure out something and all came up trite or foolish, and finally i had a really dear friend in washington, and i asked him -- he was an intel legal electric to all, sensitive guy work for "newsweek" and he was wonderful person. he couldn't come up with anything. so finally he asked a friend, and joe said he stayed up all

one night until 4:00 in the morning, and finally his wife came down and said, what are you trying to do in the said i'm trying to figure out for something to use at the beginning. his wildfire said, start at the beginning, the first ten verses of genesis. his wife was a french resistance fighter and had been raced in a catholic -- raised in catholic -- i came back and told bill and jim and instantly we agreed it was the appropriate thing to do. we type it in the flying plan and i never thought anything about it. did you think anything more out it. >> host: no, it. >> no. it was the last page of the flight manual and we split it up. >> that's how it came about, and interestingly enough, i guess even back then in america there were a lot of athiests.

we got sued. but the difference back then was the district court she sued us in refused to hear it and the supreme court threw out her appeal. [applause] >> didn't personally consider it a religious message. it was religious at the time. i thought that it was more a message just to give the background of how serious man's first departure from his home planet was for humankind, and frank's friends and frank's choice was particularly appropriate for that. >> it was -- from my standpoint is was perfectly appropriate for that reason. >> very appropriate but a scriptwriter could not have done

a better job preparing for this flight, the sequence of events that occurred with all the troubles and the turmoil that the country was having at the time to end up with a flying to the moon that everybody favored, that was positive, and that we could read something that was relating to creation of what we were now looking at and to come back on just about the end of the year. thought -- >> frank equipped later that one of the biggest accomplishments of apollo 8 was getting anders to great catholic to read from the king james version of the bible. >> that's right. i brought him along. >> chris kraft told me that transearth injection, required to get the spacecraft out of

lieu unanimous orbit and back to the earth was one over mose dangerous parts. >> we had a series of events to get ready to good. once we passed -- had communication, which was in the near side of the moon and came around on the far side, where we lose communication with theground, then all they had to do is just wait because they wouldn't know whether the eniswould lying or not light. if he engine didn't start, and we still would be in lee naar export if we never get it started we would be a satellite of me moon, or if something -- it happened and only burned half the time, we might me some bleak orbit going around and so of course frank was very concerned. he wanted to make sure we were doing everything, and got everything down, and finally i was looking at the computer and there was counting down and my

job was to handle the part of the computer and finally got down where in the lying came on and said, you have five seconds to go in and then then lying came -- >> proceed, and frank circumstance hit the biton, hit the button. hit the button. >> so i hit the button and the hit the button and we were able to scheme from the -- escape from the moon's gravity. >> when apollo 8 comes out of the orbit, jim said, please be informed there is santa claus. on the way holm you were taking textant sitings and something actually went wrong. >> well, the -- >> just a technical problem.

>> -- was to this the navigation and while we -- the short period of time when we switched from earth orbit to a noon flying issue went to m.i.t., the people that devised the navigational system, and i was learning and training on how to handle that. and then on the flight, itself started to prepare and the results of my navigation, the results looking at the stars, wouldbell meter down and the people at m.i.t. saw how this kind seeded with their results and get drag be very accurate what they predicted would happen and they said -- i said came up here a week before just to practice. but anyway, i know what robert is getting at. on the way home i got so good that i was almost like a concert pianist. >> so good he made a huge mistake. >> so i hit the wrong button. [laughter]

>> and the guidance system told the spacecraft we're no longer in orbit but still on the launch pad. [laughter] >> they got furious. they said, i we're lost. but i had no problems. he got back with the help of the ground. got back on the proper course and the proper guidance. >> the ground now and we are within a meter or two, amazing, the ground tracking, about they didn't know and we didn't know how we were. we had like about two degrees that we could be off on a reentry and if we were too steep, we could burn up. too shallow, bounce out. so jim had to hustle to -- couldn't see stars. you couldn't tell what constellation.

>> the mon was a navigation system and in the memory and we can all see the moon so the first thing i lined on was the moon, and gave us a ruff alignment so i could then pick out the stars and give us the morphiner alignle and we got back to where the spacecraft attitude was also known so we are in he proper position when we hit the atmosphere for a property landing. >> that was served you well on apollo 13. >> yes, 13 we had to shut down the stuff. so it wasn't a case of making a mistake. we lost the use of the navigational system. -- to save electrical power but getting closer to the argue we had to fire it up again and we used the same type system what are wet learned on apollo 8. >> another interesting facet of nasa. what jump screws describe were

the platform with -- was not aligned would be the normal system so you'd save fuel. when you took us riding, then you turn it off and have to realign i againment i ended up in my experience, flights you have something working, leave it alone. so i wrote a letter to program office who forwarded it to m.i.t. and i got a formal letter from commit he listed all the reasons that we could shut i down and realign it and hi signed it, and at the bottom the said -- a true story. wish i saved the letter -- said, ps, if i were going on this emotion i'd lead the damn thing run, too. [laughter] >> we did. ran on all the missions after that. >> really apollo 8 was just a training flying for pool 15. >> i think city start of apollo

8 is just machs a store of your wifes and their importance to mission. can you speak to importance of your wives. >> you're looking at the only crew in gemini or pool that still has the original wives. [applause] -- and i want to tell you from the bottom of my heart, that id admire those women more than i could tellout beau they realized they were and their families were subordinated to the mission and yet they -- they'll did was nitch and help and maintain a family, raise the kids and do everything else, and they did it with pride because they were as much a part of this deal as we were, realliment i think in a very real sense, it took more courage be -- well, look at valerie, five children, and anders, you were a major, weren't you?

>> captain. >> captain. major setback. >> you were a major. >> somewhere along the line. >> didn't even know his rank. what did he now about the -- but i'm sincere. they were just as much a part of this as we were and never really recognized in my opinion, for their contributions but they really did contribute. >> they were basically abandoned ever calculated i was able to spend 11 minutes a week with each kid privately. and modify, valerie, as did jim and frank's wives, made up the difference, and it was a strain on them. they were the real heroes. >> sometime you have to -- make them realize how important they are because sometime this get lost in the stuff we're doing

and always gone. so i sort over realized the would be the first flying to the moon and as the time goes closer to the time, realized that the three of us would be going -- orbiting the moon on christmas day. so several months before the flying, when i thought this would be true issue went to neiman marcus and i bought a coat and had the coat delivered on christmas debut schöpf ferred -- chauffeured him know driver and hand meds wildfire package and said to marilyn lovell, merry christmas from the man on the moon. [applause] >> robert, i want to -- i thank of all that's he been written you're the only one that really

attached the proper significance to the wives in the deal. you deserve a lot of credit for that. [applause] >> the flying occurred at the end of 1968, which is arguably one of the most terrible and divisive years in our country's history. the whole country seemed divided against itself with no hope of coming together. and then apollo 8 goes at the very, very end of this disastrous year. it was reported that before you launched "time" magazine had already decided on the descend are so as the man of the year but by the time you come back it name this crew of apollo 8 the men of the year. that's an honor that the magazine wouldn't even bestow on the crew of apollo 11 that made the first lanning...

>> frank got a telegram or message saying, thank you, you saved a 1968. that was the first time i ever i bet you're right. we'll take people submitted a couple of questions on twitter i would like to ask you from the crowd. do you think it will be worthwhile. >> we haven't fired anybody.

twitter -- [laughter] was that the piece. >> good thing we didn't have twitter mormon would have fired me earlier on. [laughter] i can't what you're saying, it's probably good. so, do you think it will be worthwhile going back to the moon or should we focus on mars or both? or both or both mars and the moon is it qort going? >> well i'm a strong opinion that the radiation environment in deep space which is out of the atmosphere even before you get to mars, but the radiation and negative effect of weightlessness or reduced graverty on the human body human in the space station people can't even walk when they land,

going to preclude us certainly from going from mars certainly for 100 years, and it may even make going back to the moon more difficult for extended periods of time. i knows that's not have romantic. but that's my view anyway. >> plus the fact there's -- there's nobody really willing to fund it. so we had. we were racing our winning the cold war and that was the american farmers and -- and coal minessers and workers wanted to show that we have a better system than the soviet union so we were willing for a while pay tax dos that. we don't have that today. so i hate to sound so negative. but -- i think that's the state of man flight is pretty shaky right now. we have to hitch rides to get to the space station.

with the soviet union, i mean, how ridiculous is that? [laughter] [applause] >> more romantic about it. >> well in my opinion to the future of our space efforts, should be if it is going to be a man flight there's romantic situations that are helpful we learn a lot for instance going to mars now with a vehicle call it curiosity who has been there for a couple of years now and has really explored robotically and sent information back to the has been a fantastic -- vehicle and a i think that was the way to go. we knew more about or we know more about the mars surface than neil armstrong knew about the moon surface when he landed

because of this vehicle. but for man i think we should just continue to further explore the moon if we're going to do man, moon, or man the missions to space. because there's a lot we can still learn about the moon. we have barely touched it. and if we're going to go in that direction that's the way to go. >> well i agree with with that. i think the idea that we're going to mars was -- what is must say is going to have a colony in mars in the 20us. i think that's nonsense myself. and -- i do believe that we should concentrate from the man on the scientific community on the moon like the -- like the south pole. but you've got to recognize that the program was a battle in the cold or war that's why it was funded i don't see inclination and ever since apollo every

president talked about doing this or that but none of it has been really funded but i don't see any grassroots swelling of opinion in the country to fund this thing. so i -- i believe a slow approach and -- going back to the moon makes sense from a man standpoint. >> ask a question from twitter one more from twitter. >> i don't to get fired. [laughter] >> that's what had i said earlier if we had twitter you would have fired me already. if you gentlemen pick another career other than astronaut what would it have been? >> well i was in a career i was in the navy. that -- >> would you have been a geologist do you think? >> i wouldn't have been a fighter pilot which is really what i was trained and loved to

do. i have to go to vietnam or wherever i would have been probably a geologist. >> me too i was already in the i was a. i air force. i loved it. i loved flying fighters and -- i would -- go back to the air force. >> week or two after you return the moon you were working at a gas station in cars and ornny customer gave you grub and you were in a scrap with him and your son looked over before he broke it up and said this guy does not know he's fighting with first man ever to reach the moon. [laughter] so -- i always thought you might work repairs cars. >> i was bad at -- mad at everyone for breaking up to hit that son of a bitch. [laughter] >> well this has been terrific i

would like to read closing remarks if we could. as we continue to push further into the final frontier, the unwaiverring courage of the men here tonight is the foundation of upon which that future is built. what we owe these rocket men for their selfless is impossible to pay back. yet i hope we can continue to try to find a way. as david mentioned earlier, museum of science and industry is home to sexual apollo eight capsule in which the crew made history. it can be found in the henry crown spacer in along with frank space suit, and bill anders world famous effort rise photo. apollo is the start i along with david and museum staff invite you to explore stand inside a 40 foot funnel to feel the power of nature around you see with your own eyes alarming changes our fragile planet is facing learn how humans have gotten more sophisticated in getting themselveses from one lace to another over the industries.

centuries experience the awe of the 700 ton u050 submarine serve a key turning point for world war ii like apollo eight did for the space rate its story riveting i encourage you to see the landmark for yourself. finally i want to say thanks to the three strawngts who joined us tonight. not just for approving that man kind might go anywhere. not just for saving 1968. but for showing us that great things can be done by really good guys and that this wonderful country of ours can do anything even something impossible if we're all in it together if we all believe we can. thank you frank, jim, and bill -- the first men ever to leave earth the first men ever to reach the moon. good night. [applause]

make one comment i haven't quite finished the book. it just a came out. i haven't finished the book yet i'm listening the audio version i think is very well done and maybe a little errorrer here and there butly he did a great job of getting the sense of apollo eight. [applause]

>> booktv tapes hundreds of author programs around the country all year long. here's a look at some of the events we're covering this week tuesday, we're here in the nation's capitol at the national press club. for fox news's bret baier exploring ronald reagan everetts to ends the cold war. wewednesday at the lbj presidential library and austin, texas to hear cor spoangt jake tapper on his novel about capitol hill. also this evening we're in philadelphia at the free library, where are radio and tv host michael will share his thoughts on the current

political climate. thursday, we fly out to seattle's elliot bay book company to hear peter stark detail article military career of george washington. and saturday, we're at the reagan library and california with former white house social secretaries jeremy brie nard berman sharing thoughts on public and civility it's a a look at eventings corp.ing this week many of the events are open to the public. look for them to air on the near future on booktv on c-span2. >> when i fist heard that the president had a immediately accepted the offer of kim jong-un to meet, my first reaction was oh, my god what was he doing and then i thought well nothing else is worked maybe e he ought to try this because frankly maybe they do an opening, and i would just say the following if i were talking to folks who have to manage this. the first thing is -- we do know that there's a north

korean pattern over the last secretary of state to try to negotiate with the north koreans with the father kim jong-il we know that there's a north pattern they get in trouble. they get isolated sanctions start to bite and then -- they go on charm offenses come to the table and make promises and don't live up to them and happened with us they live up to a number of promises like -- dismantling -- or destroying the cooling tower. but then you learn that they've got actually a hid highly enriched program so you have to end negotiations so it's not a good history with the north koreans madeleine albright and clinton administration and so forth but there are a couple of thingses that look different to me this time. kim jong-un is a different leadser that's it. i do think that because north korea was getting close to a capability to be able to reach the territory of the united states with a nuclear weapon,

that people began to take the american president more seriously when he said that is not accept public it was one thing to say that and i know this -- isn't good from alliance management standpoint but it was one thing when that threat was regional it's another when a threatens california or alaska and so i think people including the chinese began to take more seriously the threat that the united states might actually go to war. secondly, i actually think and we have change in secretary of state and i think secretary pompeo will secretary. but let's give rex tillerson credit for the isolation campaign that he organized against the north koreans including the expulsion of north korean workers from 20 countries that was hard currency for the regime. the regime was also starting to run out of -- out of spare parts, military spare parts, and oh, by the way, some of the luxury goods one of the most effective sanction we

have was on brandy and cigar because that's what regime wanted so they set the table now and they set the table in an effective way. the question is, how do you now deliver and i would say three thing, the first is remember that others have equities here like the japanese. so be very careful not to go around others with with equities. secondly, i would say take your time. don't be too quick to things like removal of american military forces because american military force on korean peepent for region as a whole so structure be careful about the structure. and then the third point you made -- kim jong-un and that regime never forget the nature of who you're dealing with. this is a regime that murdered an american less than a year ago this is a regime -- where the or killed his half

brother who was under chinese protection in malaysia using ex-gas this is a country with death camps for its own people and so concern never forget who you're actually dealing with here. but if you can get inspectors on the ground, do it. our intelligence of north korea is never terribly good. so inspectors on ground can matter. but -- take your time and note just one other thing don't try to negotiate it at the table with kim jong-un let the experts do that. >> you can watch this and other programs online, at booktv.org. good evening. professor of public policy and duke university where he previously served director of the sanford public