dreamers. this is one hour 40 minutes. >> the morning. the quorum being present, the committee on education workforce will come to order. welcome to today's hearing. i want to thank our panel of witnesses and our members for being here today as we talk about charter schools and the invaluable role these institutions play in the lives of millions of students. all students, regardless of

the code deserve access to high-quality education. that means giving students the opportunity to thrive in the learning environment that best suits their educational needs. every student is different and family should be empowered to choose whatever school best suits their child's strengths rather than being forced into a one-size-fits-all approach. for many, charter schools are the best option for their students to hone his or her individual bill engine abilities through successful life. though there are still relatively new on the scene, with the first having open just 25 years ago, 20 charter schools have proven to be a popular option for these institutions currently serve over 3 million students nationwide while survey show another 5 million students would enroll in a charter school if given the chance. in an effort to meet this

growing demand, the every student succeeds act maintains and improves important charter school program. the new law included reforms not only to support the development of high quality musicals but also to allow for the expansion and replication of high-quality charter schools are ready found around the country. the reforms include requirements to help the students improve recruitment and retention of students as well as to support better authorizing practices and reforms to help charter schools access facilities financing. charter schools also face rigorous account ability. these schools not only have to comply with the same account ability requirements as all other public schools, including the accountability issues, but they also face a rigorous approval process just open their doors and have to meet the expectation of the parent sending their child to the schools. too often students in underserved areas suffer due

to a lack of access to educational opportunities and remain trapped in the failing status quo. while there is a need for primary and secondary education, in the traditional schools are struggling to produce strong student outcomes. charter schools can offer students of lifeline. in fact, charter schools can be the difference between the student dropping out of high school and pursuing postsecondary education. data recorded by the 74 million shows that charter school students from high-performing charter school networks graduate from college at 3 - 5 times the national average for children and low income families. i've had the privilege of hearing from countless charter school students and their parents and they consistently tell me the same thing, their local charter school provided them with new hope and opportunity when the

traditional public schools in their area failed to passed muster. over the weekend i saw that positive impact firsthand. i had the honor of speaking at commencement ceremony for millennium charter academy in my district. a school i've seen grow from the ground up into a thriving, exciting and inspiring place. it's because the school like millennium charter that more students in my district have a shot at building a prosperous life. today's hearing presents an opportunity to examine the myriad ways charter schools are changing lives. it also prevents, presents an opportunity to recommit to what matters most giving more students the opportunity to receive an excellent education that inspires a lifelong love of learning. that i recognize ranking member scott for his opening statement. >> thank you madam chair.

the title hearing suggest that the power of charter schools is nothing but positive. they will describe a sector of schools that is fixing hours nations dismal public education and satisfying all parents. we have calls for increase of charter school funding and increasing charter schools across the country. this is only part of the study. our jobs as policymakers to salmon the full impact of charter schools, both good and bad and the children and families they serve. this is usually the case, the truth about charter schools is complicated, there's some good, even great things happening in the public charter schools. there are some areas of serious and legitimate concern. large-scale study of student data from 16 states conducted by the center for research on education outcome at stanford

university found that only 17% of charter schools produce academic gains that were significantly better than traditional public schools. 17%. 37% of charter schools performed worse than the traditional public school counterpart serving more students. others say there was virtually no difference but i used to say on average charter schools say they are below average. public school education is a better bedrock of democracy and noted by our founding fathers and numerous supreme court justices. the provision of free develop mental education to all children serves a compelling community interest and public school choice helps fully realize the promise of a public school system that delivers quality for every student in every public school and has my full support but

places like denver and massachusetts have used strong oversight to build a cohesive system built on delivering quality across the board. both denver and massachusetts are the bright spots, michigan and detroit in particular is a stain on the record of public school choice. until early 2000, michigan reliably ranked above the national average for the national assessment of educational progress. however, by 2015, only seven states scored lower than michigan on fourth grade reading and no state scored lower for black students in reading or math. students who scored below those in every other major american city. thanks in part to put call advocacy and financial. [inaudible] michigan has become a

cautionary tale of free market ideology applied public education for the state legislature first enacted steps to weaken state oversight standards. in doing so it invited the search of expansion without planning a purpose. in detroit, 12 different authorities have open and closed schools without coordination or uniform standards of account ability. a recent study from the university found that the financial strain on school districts including detroit is overwhelmingly caused by the revenue loss especially with school choice and charters are more prevalent. schools and studies statewide lost nearly half of their revenue in just ten years. unlike states that use public

school choice to improve quality across the board, michigan undermined and dismantled the public system for the state diverted public dollars and saturated marketplace. nowhere is this truer than detroit where there has been one of 160 school openings enclosur enclosure. as a result, students and parents are suffering in a chaotic, inequitable and underfunded system that is devoid of quality and rights with for-profit offers, under promising and under delivering. 80% of the schools, charter schools are for-profit with eight and ten charters both boasting achievement below the state average. while the state took modest steps to write some of these wrong, more must be done. i look forward to hearing the

perspective of jonathan clark, a detroit parent, on the impact of these choices. in 2010, the year before michigan lifted the charter cap they wanted $27 million grant from the federal school program. the committees responsibility to have honest dialogue about our role in protecting students and taxpayers from gross abuses before we increase funding and promote the expansion of public school choice at the expense of increasing federal investment and corporation programs like title i. in response to the ongoing operations challenges in the charter school program, they have fought to make improvement in the program. of particular concern was the risk at taxpayers for continue investment in states like michigan with extremely weak charter school laws that allowed unaccountable low-quality schools to flourish.

every student succeed act included a stronger provision focusing on quality, authorizing inequity for families and students. these changes were long overdue. there is a limited policy to improve charter quality nationwide. they need to improve practices before assessing funds and the policy are approach failed to ensure quality across the state. while there are improvements that are necessary and important, i remain concerned with the commitment and honoring the intent of the law. given the advocacy in michigan, there are serious and justifiable concerns under the present leadership. it will not hold csp grantees accountable for for filling program requirements and i'm concerned they will not

prioritize funding for charters that seek to improve student diversity in their expansion efforts. this will not be the first time the department has ignored equity guardrails in law. in 2016, i released the soundings from a gao study on racial and social economic schools. the gao found that on the whole public education was resecured getting an rapid growth of socioeconomic and racial isolation in charter schools was a contributing factor. the number of highly segregated schools more than double between 2001 and 2014. it went from 7000 schools up to 15000 schools. during that time there was a decrease in the prevalence, while there was a decrease in segregated non- charter public schools, the share of

segregated public schools at charter schools increased from 3% to 13%. in 2001 there were just 210 segregated charter schools nationwide. : : : studies have shown policies around the world have impact warnings choice must come with checks and balances to papers and verse impact on segregation. in a 2017 publication, andrea

was quoted as saying the risk to school choice and vouchers system in the social segregation most schools, less among the schools and less access to high-quality education and children from disadvantaged backgrounds is real but this risk can be mitigated to be the systems are designed. the choice and protections to improve diversity would exacerbate the segregation in separate with a charter or non- charter is inherently unequal. in closing i will again refer to the word that said the more flexibility in the system the stronger the policy needs to be. in other words, public school choice with oversight and accountability can improve the system as a whole and avoid

policy will not. thank you and i yield back. pursuant all members will be submitted in the record without objection the record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other material referenced to be supported for the official hearing record. i will now introduce the distinguished witnesses. mrs. reese is the president's chief executive officer of the national alliance for public charter schools. greg richmond is the president ceo of the national association of charter school authorizers. martin west is an associate professor of education at the harvard graduate school of education. i now ask the witnesses to raise your right hand.

do you solemnly swear and affirm the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth what the record reflect the witnesses answered in the affirmative let me briefly remind you of the system. when one is left delightful turn yellow. at that point i would ask that you wrap up your testimony. members each have five minutes to ask questions of the witnesses. you are recognized for five minutes. thank you for inviting me to discuss how we are providing opportunities in american schools. i'm the president and ceo of the alliance for public schools the

name of the organization reflects a fundamental fact about the charter schools, charter schools are public schools they are open to all students with no admission requirements they are diverse in every sense something from every background and availability level in the cities, suburbs and rural areas offering a variety of models that make education dynamic for students who learn in different ways. one of the most uplifting aspects of my job is visiting charter schools around the country. country. a few weeks ago i visited the dream charter school that was organized by community leaders who saw children need access to healthy activities and it began as an athletic program on two baseball diamonds and it grew into an active program and summer enrichment program and realizing they could have the biggest impact the founder started a charter school.

today it is about 650 students, 27% of the students have special needs higher than the statewide average of 21% and they outperform their peers on both language arts and math exams. it's one of 7,000 public schools serving 3.2 million across 43 states. charter schools educate 6% of the k-12 students nationally with higher percentages in some communities. though more likely than others to enroll students of color as well as from low-income backgrounds. where they are available students no longer have their academic options limited by their zip code and a growing number of schools are making diversity and essential component of their design alongside academic excellence.

paying the district and charter schools to make them accessible to as many students as possible. to respond to the needs rather than the mandates of the. they are meaningful in the publithepublic-school choices tt be of high quality. the periods made possible by the parents and consistent bipartisan support from policymakers. president clinton, bush, obama

and trump appointed charter schools and have expanded access to the charter schools to the charter school program. meeting the demand of the recent surveys indicate an estimated 5 million additional students would go to a charter school if one were available in their neighborhood. the need for more charter schools is particularly acute in the rural areas and tribal lan lands. there's too many students on the waiting lists and neighborhoods that have no access to charter schools. the.

for the needs of district schools they often must meet the facilities needs using the funds that they would otherwise support in their academic program. it is a situation that requires immediate and urgent assistance. recent funding increases in congress to help support the creation of hundreds of additional charter schools serving thousands of students and provide assistance to improve the charter school this studies. the public-school option we urge you to do all that you can to make sure charter schools are accessible to students who want or need them. thank you and i look forward to your questions.

>> you are recognized for questions. >> ranking member scott and members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to speak with you this morning about charter schools. i am the president of the national association of charter school authorizers. we are all here today for the same reason. too many children in america do not have an opportunity to attend a good school that prepares them for success in life. charter schools are one way but not the only way to get markets access to a good school. for if we truly want all children in america to get a good education, then we need a system of education that is as diverse and campaigns many paths. charter schools are an important part of the da the paper systemw serving 3 million students and growing. more importantly can students have traditionally been underserved are now benefiting. studies show that

african-american, hispanic, low-income and special education students of charter schools show positive gains in math and reading compared to their peers in traditional schools. the charter school idea is based on three pillars. access, autonomy and accountability. when all three pillars are present in healthy, charter schools excel and more students get a good education. the entities that authorized them play an important role in balancing each of these pillars. in most states and school districts authorize charter schools. in authorizers job is to improve and renew the charter schools they are held accountable in many ways into some of these are the same as traditional public

schools while others go above and beyond. they must comply with all federal laws in education and nondiscrimination. they must conduct annual audits of their finances and in most states they are subject to the same public information and transparency laws as any other public body independence if they perform poorly and the most important form of accountability, the charter school can only access if the parents choose to send their children to it. some of you may be thinking right now that you've heard of each worker schoo school that ht complied with everything on the list and this is certainly true while most are doing a good job for kids playing by the rules, some are not. good authorizers monitor the performance and actions of their schools and staffing if something is wrong. the root of the problem is often

poor authorizing. it's essential for the other pillars of charging access and autonomy. as public schools charter schools should be accessible to all. this means they must have fair and transparent applications in lotteries and no student should be expelled or counseled out of the school. especially those that do not have current access to a good school. a good authorizers helps expand access for all students by creating equitable systems and providing families with information to make choices. a good authorizers also ensures each school has the autonomy and flexibility and needs to be innovative and excellent. we don't want a one-size-fits-all standardized education system. children are unique and we need a variety of types of schools to meet their unique needs. good authorizing makes sure there's a good balance of these

three pillars, access, autonomy and accountability. the problem is we don't have good authorizing everywhere. we have a goldilocks situation. some authorizers are doing too much, some are doing too little and some are getting it just right. where we have significant problems in the charter schools is the root of the problem is often who are authorizing it. there is a role for the federal government in improving the charter school authorizing that it is a limited role. federal law already provide appropriate parameters for special education and in addition to bipartisan reforms withithe bipartisan reformswithl program included already reward and encourage the states to improve charter school quality. after that, there is no one-size-fits-all solution for the charter school authorizing in every state. every state has a unique charter school law, history and experience into this up to each to take appropriate action. collectively, each of these bodies must hold their assigned

role to make the model work. many places all of this is actually working pretty well right now. just ask the millions of parents and families choosing a charter school for their child but there are issues, questions and opportunities involving the charter schools with real consequences for children so i'm delighted we are having this conversation. too many children in america do not have the opportunity to attend a good school an and wenn while authorizing can be a catalyst that helps more children get that opportunity. and that is why i thank you for supporting this work. >> my name is jonathan philip clark the father of seven wonderful children and an iraq war veteran. i work at a nonprofit that

provides mentoring, tutoring and arts camp i lived with m live wn four of our children. i also serve on the board of directors for a group of parents and students advocate for high-quality education. we've had good and bad experiences in all three but there are few experiences that i want to bring to your attention. my oldest daughter attended the university academy charter school for four years. the students attended school from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. with two hours of math and two hours of english each day, and a weekly college seminar class to help them prepare for college. the school also prepared dual enrollment for the students. the first three years they kept their promises.

then, during the tenth grade year, the two hours each of math and english were reduced to 45 minutes per day. the seminar class was reduced to a once a month meeting after school, and only some students were invited to attend. when we asked about the dual enrollment program, we were told that our daughter, who had maintained a 4.0 wasn't eligible because she hadn't scored high enough on her practice test. there were five principles in three years. and the audit revealed the school could not account for $300,000 of title i. the board canceled the contract with the management company and then signed a contract with a new management company headed by the exact same person.

around the same time, my other two doctors attended to other charters with similar programs. the management company that ran both of those schools left the middle of the school year fire ifiringthe principles and some s without notifying the parents. and mine are struggling today is a school that has five principles into management companies in five years. others would point out that we had a choice. we could stay where we could leave. the system of choice is premised on the belief that the threat of us leaving would incentivize the schools to get better. the parents don't want to leave. if you've ever had to figure out a transportation scheduled for four kids at four different schools, you will understand what i'm saying.

if you've ever had to watch your child struggled to find new friends can yet again you will understand what i'm saying. if you've ever gotten a different jobs you could accommodate your children's schedules, you will understand what i'm saying. when parents try to voice their frustration and ask for stability in the management of the school and for the school to deliver what they have promised, we learned there was not an elected board we could go without. vote out. the charter authorizer we were supposed to go to waste 350 miles away from the city of detroit. these schools are not in their neighborhoods. their children do not attend their schools. the children of their friends and neighbors do not attend these schools. the charter system has allowed schools to promise things and not deliver them and to continue

to take taxpayer money without providing michigan and in particular he tried to students equally education. i encourage you as members of the committee to remain vigilant and holding the education secretary and the administration accountable for the charter reforms enacted. the influence over the sector is no longer confined to michigan. based on my experience i wouldn't wish the policy's nomination. the word choice sounds good, but the system of choice requires my wife and i to drive around the city for hours to get our children to and from their schools and requires us to attend countless open houses with programs, dual enrollment in advanced math and reading and state-of-the-art technology but with no mechanism to ensure that we are given wha what we've been promised. this is my children's lives and their education.

they don't get to do it again. even more than choice, they deserve a quality education and parents deserve a voice in that education. thank you. >> you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. chairwoman, ranking member scott, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. my name is marty west, associate professor at the harvard graduate school of education and a member of the board of elementary secondary education of the commonwealth of massachusetts. it's often called the nation's report card and the results show a slight uptick in the reading scores of authorized but were otherwise flat. this progress has led some to question the model of the school

reform the nation has pursued in recent years. these questions are appropriate they shouldn't leave the school evidence of reform that has worked for the creation of the charter schools provide new options for millions of families particularly those living in low performing urban school districts. the financing and since 2010 the replicator expanded charter expr schools with a strong track record this is an attractive model of policies supporting the state policies and encouraging, not mandating other states consider them. in my view of the accumulated research on the charter schools also speaks to the value of and the need for the federal investments.

but they are doing so in a cost-effective way in stark contrast to the stagnation seen among public schools. the evidence on the charter schools is mixed. individuals do vary widely in their effectiveness in mr. clark's testimony that powerfully illustrates into the most comprehensive studies of the sector suggests little difference in the charter and nearby district schools. from the students of color and the students living in urban areas all groups for whom educational opportunities are too often limited. studies from my home state of massachusetts illustrate this pattern of graceful and each year of attendance had a charter middle school increasing the student achievement by 15% of the standard deviation and

rating at 42% in math. these are among the largest on record for an educational intervention implemented upscale large enough to close the achievement gap in three years. in contrast, tending the charter school in a suburban or a rural area was the achieved by a small amount. despite the fact that these schools are popular enough to hold the missions. many of these have a distinctive curricular emphasis of me explain the sustained popularity despite a lack of success in improving test scores. even so it strongly suggests that the availability of the charter schools has improved the equity of student outcomes in the state. a strong performance of the charter schools nationwide is particularly impressive given that in many states and the charters continue to receive substantially less than in the vendor district peers as much as 28% was according to the 2014 study. the funding gap implies that

they provide a far greater return on investment for spending on public education. there's also evidence that the performance of the sector is improving over time for multiple reasons. first of many charter schools are new and the schools tend to become more effective as they mature. second a growing share is comprised of the non- charter management organizations which tend to be more effective than the standalone schools. most importantly, research from the multiple states confirms low performing charter schools are more likely to close these are due to a lack of parental command or as a result of the authorizer decision. this provides a mechanism for the continuous improvement that is generally not present in the traditional public-sector. it's worth emphasizing the additional high-quality options created have not come at the expense of students that remained enrolled in traditional districts rather the bulk of the evidence suggests the charter schools have a modest positive effect on students in the nearby

district schools and there are a growing number of examples of charter schools publishing to share best practices. therefore it is disappointing that after a decade of claiming that six to 9% a year, growth in the number of charter schools nationally dissolved 2% annually the past three years. this is not due to the lack of demand, it isn't due to the lack of need. i want to thank the witnesses for being here today and sharing your testimony with us and i would now recognize members for five minutes.

i appreciate the opportunity to be here. i'm from kentucky and i just finished a 21 counties and because of what's going on in the general assembly of the people came in and were more interested in the charter schools and i know my answer to them was basically that is decided in frankfur frankfurt nt necessarily. we are looking at this and how to assist in moving forward. a lot of the past but charter school last year if i remember correctly and there are still some unknowns in the process. what happens if they passed the state charter school law what is the process i could help explain to some of my constituents.

the governor signs it and then what takes place next? >> i have some familiarity. they are everywhere in the country in every state charter school or public schools and in the process "-begin-double-quote a law that limited the charter schools to just a few communities i think it was louisville and lexington are the only two cities where the charter schools are permitted if i am recalling correctly. even though it is two cities from the folks that want to start a charter schoo school ise art community organizations that havhave to put together a propo, what is their idea and educational plan, with grade level they want to serve, where is it going to be located that is the answer to that of questionthe questionsthat did ne

authorizer's in kentucky. those conversations are just the beginning. and if there is something that happens in terms of the establishment of the charter school in kentucky it's not going to be this fall may be the year after. >> is there something in the federal level that could get in the way or we could approve in the process? >> it is mostly driven by what is happening in louisville. there are folks in kentucky working on getting this up and going into the committee is one group and others. the federal charter school program does a competitive grant program that would allow the folks in kentucky to apply for some funds to help get that going so they may apply in the next cycle to help get this started.

>> you mentioned about this for the situation and i know in the kentucky law can you explain the importance of providing the facilities and if they have access to those like traditional public schools that is a hard one to answer. >> charter schools don't have access to the same that are visible to the traditional system such as municipal bonds and local tax credits. the way to mitigate that is by having the state and maximum loss of attached the facility funding to follow them to charter schools because the average doesn't include passivity finance. the federal level they are helping with this but the credit enhancement program which is a part of the charter school program is to the extent there's

a discussion about infrastructure of the national level and federal level that is the other place we could highlight the discrepancy between what the charters get a and the traditional but we think it should be dealt with at the state level primarily. ..

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brings down the entire neighborhood. >> thank you for sending that picture for us. they actually propose increasing the funding, it's almost a doubling of what was funded and 2018. given the fact that there is a next story here that. >> my experience with charter schools, as a whole as i said in my testimony, i'm not very hopeful. giving more money to build more charter schools to me in my personal opinion is not going to help my situation in detroit. a lot of these charter schools

are not in the neighborhood where they are needed. if they are, they are no better than the public school. broken promises, they hurt, not just a student, but hurts the parents as well. it is the case that charters do. >> i've only got six seconds left. i want to ask the chair, i submitted the record from brooking institute on how their prolonging segregation. >> thank you mr. courtney. mr. banks, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chairwoman.

>> as mrs. reese is well aware, national association of public schools is ranked indiana charter school law as the best in the country for three years in a row. as mr. richman was aware, the association of charter school authorizer's charter the best the nation. is from the data that the study found that students in indiana charter schools gained 36 days of learning and reading. year end 13 days of learning in math, both above the national average. i was proud to be involved in the effort to expand access to charter schools during my time as a state senator by sponsoring the bill that created the indiana school board and allowed private universities to authorize new charter schools. i believe the success of schools can be treated to the ability of multiple authorizer's to start charter schools that maintain the

autonomy to innovate. at the same time, the schools are being held to the highest academic standards. unlike traditional public schools, they face the threat of closure if they do not meet the standards. mrs. reese and mr. richman, would you both agree indiana's model of freedom, accountability and multiple sources of authorization is a good model for other states? >> absolutely. we ranked indiana first on our ranking report for that very reason. it's the balance between autonomy and account ability in a very robust way. what's really interesting about indiana is the work that's happening in indianapolis with started when the mayor, who's a democrat and has continued over time, there is a sense of collaboration between the district and the charter school system, the community views charter schools as part of the fabric of public education and we firmly

believe that model is one that should be replicated in more cities uncertainty places like d.c. and san antonio and denver have emulated that and we hope that other school officials come to indianapolis and emulate those best practices. >> anything to add mr. richman? >> two things, just to echo a reference you made on the role of the mayor of indianapolis has been critical in collaboration and medication across all schools and we sometimes see that missing, we too often see it missing in other cities. this works really well when you have someone like a mayor writing that kind of leadership across all schools. we do rank indiana's charter school for a high in our system, one of the reason for that is the ability they have for the authorizing hotties.

you've mentioned there are authorizing dealers in indiana. as part of that, the indiana authorizer can actually lose its power to continue authorizing schools if it approves and lets bad schools stay open. we support that. we believe an account ability for all of our actions and that's one of the aspects of indiana's law that makes it successful. everyone is accountable for good outcomes for kids. >> with that, how important is it for the federal government to maintain the points ability of federal funding for charters and to allow multiple types of authorizer's to give access to those fun. >> we think one of the strengths of the charter school movement is that possibility, it is not standardized across the whole country, you see different states trying different things but some are working better than others. we think it's important for the federal role in charter schools to continue to support that flexibility while having some incentives like it has in the federal charter school

program. there are incentives for states to tackle issues around equality. there are incentives but then each state gets to build its own solution and we think that's the right way to go. >> anything to add on that flexibly? >> no, i just very much agree with mr. richman. the best approach is likely to vary from state to state and the charter schools program encourages attention to these issues but doesn't dictate exactly how they need to be addressed. i think that's an appropriate role. >> thank you, i feel back. >> thank you mr. banks. >> you are recognized for five minutes. >> icr obligation is one that all children have access to height quality education that includes great schools, great teachers, great administrators for that includes all students, particularly

students with disabilities, english-language learners, they should all have that access. i see this as a moral issue, but also as a civil-rights obligation. i worked on this issue when i was a state legislator as well as a member of congress but i have to say, i am in general skeptical about charter schools because they are not addressing the underlying issue of equity of opportunity for all. mr. clark, thank you for your testimony and raising some of those important concerns about the lack of stability as many charter schools, a especially in michigan. i wished we were having a row robust discussion on how great the public schools are where we have an elected school board or the schools are not opening and closing based on the management and creating that instability. we are here today, i'm want to focus and talk about online charter schools, many of which

are for-profit. although, certainly online classes can expand educational opportunities for students, especially in rural areas, online schools typically require a learning coach, often apparent taking families who don't have one stay-at-home parent out of the loop. they had to monitor students during the day and in fact, in my home state of oregon, less than half of the students who attend graduated on time and that's 30 points behind the state average. in 2015, the center for research on educational, stanford letter report examining the performance of online charter schools in 17 states including oregon for they found online charter schools have an overwhelmingly negative effect on student achievement. on average they lost 180 days of learning in math and 72 days of learning and reading. one researcher included losing a hundred days is literally like they didn't go to school for an entire year.

indiana has indiana virtual school that graduated a lower percentage of schools than almost every other high school in the state. as a taxpayer and a parent, what do you think about these online charter schools and what would you want to know if you are considering enrolling your student, your child in an online charter school? >> the first thing i would be concerned about is, is there a system set up to hold them accountable? for the services they say they will provide to my children, are they accountable. i am not here to bash charter schools. i am here to push the fact that accountability is the key. >> absolutely. i agree, accountability is really important. that's something i worked on

at the state level. misread, i wanna ask you, there is something you submitted in your testimony where you said millions of american families are now settling for schools that are less than what they want for their children and far too many of these students are stuck in school so dreadful that members of the committee would not accept them as adequate for their own children or grandchildren. your suggestion is that if only there were a charter school member of congress or other involved parents to take their children and put them in a nearby charter school. as policymakers, we have to ask the question, what about those schools? how can we address the needs of all those students who are stuck in what you are calling schools that are so dreadful. our responsibility isn't just to the students whose involved parents put them in a charter school. we have to consider all those students. it's the same question i asked secretary devos. why don't the schools have better teachers?

to the need better administrators? do they need more classes? today have led in the water? it's not just our responsibility to the kids i go to another school. in your testimony you applauded charter schools that seem to ignore some of the problems of the for profit and online. you probably heard about ohio's online classroom of tomorrow. they abruptly closed last winter. the school was inflating student outcome with any evidence that the students were learning and an audit that they received about $90 million for the state than they should've received and $590 million in federal, state and local funds and abruptly closed and left those students with nowhere to go. shouldn't there be stronger oversight to make sure the schools are serving students rather than focusing on turning profits and why are you encouraging removing caps and having more access to funding when so many cases like this exist? madam chair, can i introduce into the record how long will we let them fail indiana committee begins review of virtual charter school rules. >> without objection.

i'll ask the witnesses to answer in writing since the time has expired. >> the very question to your first point. >> i'll ask you to submit your answers in writing. thank you. >> mr. allen, you are recognized for five minutes. >> 's is reese, would you answer that question? i would like to know the answer. >> to your first point, for us it's not an either/or. we believe we should make investments in our public schools and make sure they are serving the needs of the students who are in the schools. but, at the same time we also believe family should have options if the school is not working for them they should be able to send their children to other school spread there have been some efforts in states like tennessee where the charter model has been introduced in those schools that have been chronically

failing. our sector is very much ready, willing and able to go in those schools were parents are not making a choice to see if a charter model is in fact a no excuses model about raising student achievement. for us it's not an either/or. it's a both. we have to do both in tandem. we produced a report two years ago in which we chronicled the chronic underachievement of online charter schools and called for regulations at the state level to address these issues. you don't want to completely get rid of them because for some students these are the only choices available to them. at the same time, they are very different from our brick and mortar schools and their achievement certainly has been kept on par with where we want to be with community. >> thank you. again, what were talking about here is how do we get young people the opportunity to be what god created them to be, and of course, two things i

would like to point out, one is that everything i have learned about education is if you're not reading at a third-grade level by the time you finish the third grade, you're probably not going to graduate from high school and if you don't graduate from high school your future does not look very promising as far as seeking a job or being independent. the second thing is, i shouldn't globalize this, but the teachers that i talked to tell me the biggest problem is not the students, it's the parents. and so, when i see schools that really do tremendous parental involvement at every level of the school and my children attended private school with tremendous parental involvement and state

public school with tremendous public involvement. the idea with the charter school is that as a group of parents that have said we come together and we want something better for our children. so, ms. reese, you have mentioned some examples of public and charter schools working together. i've heard some examples like that as well. how do we get that young person through third grade reading at a third-grade level? >> good reading programs make a difference. a lot of our charter schools arthritis thriving because they're putting programs that have been researched and tested starting at an early age, making sure they are making sure the students are actually proficient in reading before they move on to the next grade.

at the end of the day, our community is about raising student achievement. doctor west highlighted some of the studies out there, but i want to repeat some of the things he mentioned. according to stanford's credo on average and african-american, low income charter school student gains an additional 59 days of learning in math and 54 additional days of learning in reading. to us that tells us there is something in the water in the charter school movement, especially for low income students and minority students that works and we should try to replicate those models. >> doctor west, as far as parental involvement, how do we change that? >> we know parental involvement is an important cricontributor to a successful school and many charter schools do seek to encourage greater levels of parental involvement. many of them have parent contracts that they lay out the expectations for a moment.

they're not legally enforceable in any way but they do set clear expectations. i would actually say many of the most successful charter schools and the movement welcome parental involvement, but they don't actually build models that require it in order for students to be successful. they know many of the families they serve face extreme disadvantage and they want to ensure students are able to be served regardless of what parents are able to contribute. >> thank you very much. feel back. >> thank you mr. allen. doctor adams, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you manager. thank you ranking member for convening the searing and to the witnesses, thank you for your service. i just wanted to take a moment to introduce three interns that i have with me.

i want to remark on how important today's conversation is for the future of our nation. i'm happy we have some young people here today. the state of north carolina just passed a bill that would allow the local small town county that i represent to create their own independent charter schools separating from the charlotte mecklenburg school system. they say that their parents need options when considering their children's education. i don't disagree with that parts having the ability to choose. my fear in this proposal is that is mecklenburg small towns create there's own charters, children and the rest of county will be resigned to in attending more segregated and under resourced school spread what choice will those parents living in inner-city have for those children? for the children who can

attend these charters, what are we doing to ensure quality is in place. this question is for you, your organization is committed to advancing the mission of charter schools and another question is should low performing charter schools be shut down. >> there are a lot of questions in there. in terms of specific questions, in terms of charlotte mecklenburg issue, i'm not familiar exactly with the schools that will be created as an organization we firmly believe that schools should be inclusive settings. the vast majority of our leaders are creating the schools in order to take care of the needs of students who have traditionally been left behind and in the case of north carolina we should keep an eye on how this is moving forward and certainly the way authorizer's are authorizing the schools that can put parameters in place to make sure schools are meeting the diverse needs of the community.

to your second question, i believe if a school is not performing well it should be closed. last year we had roughly 200 public charter schools close over the past five years over a thousand schools have closed. the key difference between a charter school in a traditional school is that if it's not performing well it's either not attractive enough families or the authorizer is not happy with the performance, that school can and should be closed. >> thank you. madam chair i wanted to insert, put in the record a report in the public interest which details some of the negative impacts of the rapid charter expansion and the fact that these districts are facing a shortfall of over hundred $24 million. >> without objection. >> thank you. >> despite the many failure cited some charter schools get it right. charlotte is an example of a school in my district that prioritizes the importance of going critical resources to

support low income children of color through their education but in general charter schools show greater segregation and mysteries, in your quest to expand public charters, are you supportive of the attendance to segregate kids based on race and/or income? >> absolutely not. we firmly believe charter schools, and most of the leaders in the charter school movement are in this business to serve the needs of students and a lot of them are creating schools better diverse by design. having said that, it is our intent to have more diversity in the charter schools space. there are some policies that need to be put in place. this committee wanted to reauthorize the elementary and secondary education act allowed charter schools to receive funding to do weighted lotteries which is one mechanism to add more diversity. i just have a few seconds left. ms. clark, let me ask you,

thank you for sharing the information about the system. these charter schools that they have their own boards where they regulated by the system, can you speak to that. >> they acted independently. they had their own board. they were appointed. the management company for the charter school that my daughter went to that i spoke to my testimony, like i said, there are 350 miles away so what we did have a concern it's hard to get 100 parents 350 miles away to address an issue. another thing, real quick, we felt locked out. they would have board meetings at 11:00 a.m. parents artwork and teachers are at work as well. it wasn't like they wanted us.

[inaudible] >> it's not like we are in a position where infiltrating and really causing our public schools to go out of business. 90% of our kids will be educated. i just wanted to put that in for the record. i yield back. >> mr. snook you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you manager thank you for scheduling this discussion on a very important topic. i think charter schools are very important component of our k-12 system throughout the country. i served in the pennsylvania state legislature and served as the chair for some of that time. i had the opportunity to speak many times two parents who participated in the lottery for their students. they really saw the quality of the education their child received and it was really a lifeline to them for the

future. many times we are participating in lotteries with thousands of students participating when there only a few slots availabl available. when you saw the joy that parents experienced when they were selected, i think in one way the charters are really important in providing that opportunity for students who would not have that opportunity otherwise for a great education. it goes well beyond that. i think it's important for us to remember that charter schools are public schools. they are publicly funded. they can often be a way to innovate. there sort of a laboratory that other schools can learn from. third, i may be on the minority on this view, i think charter schools are very important to improve the

effectiveness of the entire landscape of schools. : : : whether they are charter schools or traditional public schools there should be accountability across the board.

i've seen great charter schools and poor public schools. as policymakers we should always expect every student will have the opportunity for a quality education. one of the things i've seen if you are going to pennsylvania and it's been my experience they are all surprised by the district and i've been surprised that there is not more where the school districts see a positive partnership with the school as beneficial for the school businesses in their district and i've come to the conclusion that there are better ways to authorize public schools then potentially school district. i want to get your thoughts on what you see as the most effective public schools. >> it is when we touched on like

who is overseeing them so that ties to the public charter schools. 90% of them are school districts. usually it is the opposite. >> they are doing this very well and poorly and that ther there e that are not. we identified three qualities that we think are important

number one there has to be a commitment to do this is important to pay attention to the. when we see those qualities in existence we tend to get good charter schools for kids. >> thank you chairwoman and chairman fox.

we have innovation schools and i am also honored to be a member of the public education caucus as a superintendent for the immigrants and language learners into public charter schools can be a helpful component accountability and equitable you need to make sure they are held accountable. when we negotiated the updating charter school program to improve accountability it was a priority of mine and i'm glad to say it now includes additional transparency and accountability requirements for community engagement and also enters a discussion around the office risers which was a part of the

topics the last question the quality of the authorizer in writing the contract and enforcing the contract is critical. finally i want to point out not all school choice is equal. but charter schools and others can be meaningful options for families under the right conditions and of course they have to comply with federal law that one of my concerns has been access to transportation and i think it's important to make sure we talk about making our choices in public education and meaningful by including a discussion about how parents who might not have the luxury of being able to take their kids to a different school in a car that the first question when i hear from public charter schools in colorado the first issue they bring up is the need for a solution to the interaction and they bring it up because the students, families, and teachers

that were eligible and living every day with the uncertainty that's been created in the trump administration. one example from colorado said he felt lucky to attend at the charter school that he did and he's a big fan of his teachers but he said fixing this is important for students because there's a few scholarships available to students that can be discouraging and additionally, i always fear i could be deported at any time and i fear i will not be able to complete my degree. i'm glad to say he's a student at colorado state university today, but other students don't have to go through the fear every day that they might be deported or they rely on seemingly inefficient congress or addressing the situation. i want to have you spoken to the students of the families and in the charter schools and what do

you think it would do for the community? >> very quickly our organization does work on these issues, but we do have quite a few charter schools are serving and also have teachers that have benefited and we said time and time again we stand firmly with them and we will fight on their behalf to make sure that there is a viable solution to this issue. i believe congress needs to deal with this issue. >> will they lose teachers that are good teachers today? >> under the circumstances and we haven't done a situation on how many are under a fair number of schools in texas and california, denver are serving

the students right now and they've grown with the schools, so the stories they have are quite heart-wrenching and they were on the hill this past november visiting with members of congress and their stories are compelling. >> the second model i want to explore our early college schools they can earn an associates degree. i want to ask about the example of innovation and also with the charter schools are doing a help spread innovation across other public schools in their original goal of greater >> that was one of the original choices giving teachers more autonomy to render the schools when it comes to innovation though, you need two people to partner with one another to share that innovation and i worry about the although are ready and able to share there is a mechanism to transfer that to the larger district system.

from the school district leaders to visit the denver of the world to see how that is being transferred and how they are taking place, but some of them could have transferred or expanding the school day and the school year. one of the reasons they do so well in the low-income communities as for that reason and another innovation of course is the way that we train the teachers and we compensate them to make sure we are attracting the best and the brightest and offering greater pay so there's a variety of innovation. there is room to do a lot more and it is imperative in the movement to step up and do it a lot more innovation. >> thank you. i yield back.

>> who are recognized for five minutes. >> sound literally bursting at the seams i want to be clear what i'm about to say is my heartfelt feeling and that is in my 1 16 months i've gotten to kw the ranking member of the committee quite well and could not hold him in higher regard. when i look at the legal analysis and heartbreaking tragedy. it's the only student initiated case in the brown v. board of education and it was a start

towards dismantling the legal y. plessy versus ferguson. that was finalized in 1964 with the passage of the civil rights act with subsequent legislation and as it relates to the sort of partisan i would remind folks 39% of democrats in the house opposed the act while 20% of republicans in the senate for 27% opposed the acting 6% of democrats and was actually a filibuster of the civil rights act by one robert byrd who later called the mentor a great leader and gave a kiss on the cheek with knowledge of the fact that he'd been a member of the ku klux klan so segregation is illegal and has been in if you would like to give purpose and credit you can do that based on the mathematical facts that i don't find. to use the term absolutely and rightly stirred emotions aggregation is hyperbolic at best and a little bit disingenuous because the segregationist and frosegregatie

land if there is increased segregation is the fact of the segregation. whether they are in their socioeconomic space where they live in at number two, the geographical compactness creates circumstances would have come across as a driving factor in public education is a virtue of the production and transportation services. these are realities that we kn know. so to say they boost the segregation isn't a fair argument. again with the greatest respect for the individual and i mean that sincerely. that manifests itself largely in the state legislatures and i can give examples when i was in the virginia state house that was a fight to allow students and i believe it was six failing

school districts the ability to attend in the adjacent school districts which was opposed along party lines and vetoed by the governor for the reasons that at least in the lottery somebody wins. and i am reminded of the circumstance i read in the paper in new orleans louisiana received admission to 83 colleges raised by a single mom they broke any number of expectations against him to become a high achiever in power by virtue of education. if you take a younger person regardless of their background

or color of their skin or how they worship and he placed them in the right circumstances today they will be succeeding. now if manifests itself but i would argue is the result of the circumstances and not of children that are failing public schools but the public schools that are failing the children. i would argue while they are no panacea as they do not exist in any region governed by these human beings but there are outcome disparities the show all other things are equal opportunity is increased and outcomes are better would you concur with the bulk of my sentiment?

i am sorry that i missed a good part of it, but i wanted to talk for just a moment. i represent san diego if we have some great charter schools that function as testing sites largely with high accountability standards and i think that there is a sentiment and interest. it's to make sure every young person that resides in that school has an equal chance to be successful. we want to make sure they have an equal opportunity to be successful. one of the concerns i think he owned the lessons of air and other communities is what we can do to ensure better results.

and i want to ask you and start with what do you think the role is in ensuring that accountability. i know one of my colleagues asked the question about authorizing the charter schools and what is the oversight role for the federal government and state government for that matter as well as local entities, but what do you think we could be doing better as we look to futurthefuture legislation to so that federal and state role and accountability. >> it needs to come at the lowest level. we have a saying back in detroit nothing about us without us. those that are affected by the problem an or need a table to address the problem.

nothing against the people in lansing or dc but it's our children battling with the system that they have to navigate through back in detroit. so the local governing body of parents and residents whose children are in this fight needed to be at the table to hold the educators committee authorizes accountable for what they said the they're going to . >> how is it that the tone the guard rails if you will do you think might be missing a in our

ability to send but strongly to school. they make good decisions for their kids about the ability to even send the transportation availability. these are critical parts of success. the federal charter school program does provide some funds to allow the communities to develop this kind of solutions for rhode island and others. i mentioned the importance of the predominance of the school

districts that are the major authorizer in this country and is a valuable role. in detroit this spring they decided to get out of the action of overseeing charter schools. they see the port to other folks and we think that was unfortunate. there can be a role for the districts. the mayor seems to be stepping in and he put together commissions to tackle some of these problems. but that's local presence is important and having people work together to solve the problems that's what we need to do to have this work for all kids. >> i understand what you're saying and i think it is critically important especially where we see children that have been traumatized by the need to

move around a. there has been some movement as far as the local accountability, but not as much as i would like to see. far too much wrong has been done to these kids and parents in this fight for equitable education. we cannot stop. we must continue to fight. >> i think that my time is up. >> you are recognized. >> thank you to the witnesses for being here. mr. clark, several years ago i had an opportunity to visit your charter school that you were talking about and we solve the problems. having opportunity to visit another higher performing

charter schools in detroit also that was offering an alternative in a very difficult area, offering it with some good success. and i think the leadership action to the commanders working with the state and activists have gotten more involved in the city and the educational system. it was the silicon valley of the united states in manufacturing and engineering and everything that went on, so it's tragic to see some of the things that have happened. a wonderful school located in michigan this academy is

kindergarten through eighth grade and currently the school is ranked in the 81st percentiln title and the top to bottom ranking. what effect does this have on the local community? >> thank you for the question. so, what effect it has on the local community isn't something that we have been able to study in great detail so far because the movement is so new. we know about how they affect the achievement and the likelihood of competing for

example. it affects the long-term outcomes and the emerging evidence is very encouraging i would say in terms of the broad community impact i don't know that we have much evidence on that point as of yet. i will say we know it is a key driver of housing prices and people like attending schools in their local community. and so everything that we would know from the education at-large could be a transformative experience for the community. >> and the charter school movement has been around for a while. we are hoping that those studies come out because with the public schools people will make the

slightest efficient choices to make sure they are there in that district. let me ask a follow-up on the parental involvement in the chargers and the success that indicated i think rightfully so that certain cases you can't rely on the parental involvement because they are not fair, so you have to do the best with what you have. what are some of the other factors when you look at success of the charter school that you find our key? >> it comes down to the teachers more than anything else in the research suggests the quality of the teacher is the most important influence. they have much for flexibility on how they make decisions.

it might transfer to the traditional districts it's just the ability that the leaders have to take advantage of that flexibility and assembled a team of like-minded educators that are bogging down the schools of philosophy. >> what would encourage a teacher to choose a charter school over a traditional public-school? >> i would think that it would be the ability to teach with others that have bought into the same educational philosophy. we know leadership is a quite heavy influence on whether the teachers want to stay in a given school so it woul that would bee opportunity to work with a strong leader but in terms of what is most distinct i think again it is the ability of the leader and a group of teachers

to establish a common educational position and a work towards that together. >> when we talk about charter schools and children being trapped in low performing schools rather than giving the select few a different choice, the response ought to be the lower schools and i think it is noteworthy you don't have a clamor for the schools in areas where the schools are well-funded. studies have shown charter schools on average or worse than average some are better but more often worse we've also found that rigorous oversight makes a difference. with response to my distinguished colleague from virginia i look forward to working to fulfill the vision of

the walkout for the unequal opportunities and without assigning fault or blame for the increased choice but to segregation we can address this reality tha but we first have to acknowledge whether debate with the gao told us that segregation in the schools is increasing particularly in charter schools. mr. clark i want to thank you again for your service and for being with us this morning. we found that the overwhelming majority of the schools in detroit operated by the for-profit companies in your view are they maximizing profit at a cost to students and parents? >> can you repeat the question? >> are the schools looking out for profits or are they more interested in the fact that they are looking out for what is

detrimental to students? >> i do believe in my experience that profits are the number one motivation, and i say that because my daughter's matter-of-fact all three of them have come home without textbooks that they need. there are a lot of resources that they should receive at their charter schools but they don't. the administration that the schools during conversations and meetings with them come it was never a conversation about -- they never made me feel like my children's education was priority. it was always another way of cutting the corner as with the classes they promised two hours

of math and english. they knocked it down to 45 minutes. they fired the right teachers, excuse me let me go back they fired the wrong teachers. my daughter, wendy the ceo of the school found my daughter in the hallway and said what's wrong and she said my heart is broken. why? because you just fired my favorite teacher. there is no reason to fire your best teachers. there is no reason. my daughter's motivation dropped from that point on and she felt at that point she felt that school didn't make her a priority. the things he promised kids you should keep your word.

the college seminar class, my daughter's look forward to that. when you cut out for whatever reason you come up with in your head, that's wrong. that is determined will to all of these kids. they expect to go to school and learn independently prepared for college which is the next phase. >> thank you. want to try to get in another question if i can. thank you for that answer. this could be a simple yes or no i want to ask all the panelists. why should a state subject all public schools to its open records law and washington, d.c. charter schools are not subject to open records laws should any public charter school be subject to the same open records law as a non- charter school? >> by open records law do you mean public forums to come to the school board meeting? >> freedom of information law.

mr. richmond? >> i need to think about the question tquestion to see how tt state statutes treat this particular question. >> some do and some don't. the question is whether all public schools or public monies should be subject to open records laws like the freedom of information. does anybody want to answer? >> i feel everybody should be held to the same standard. public schools with public dollars and charter schools to charter dollars, they should be a level playing field. >> transparency and our government is very important. the reason i hesitate to offer an absolute yes is because it is not an issue i've looked at closely. sometimes there are unintended consequences for disabled in some cases they've made it

impossible for charter school boards that are not comprised of the geographical areas to comply with the exceptions are needed to be carved out and so i just would not want to offer an absolute yes without giving more studies. >> yes with the recognition that even within that statement in the states there are considerable debates going on right now about how that does apply. >> did you want to answer? >> we need to take a close look at the consequences of these additional rules and regulations on the charter schools but by and large my reaction is they should be able to make this information available. our model law encourages the states to have open meetings in place for charter school boards to conduct their meetings and public for instance. >> your time has expired. >> mr. grossman you are recognized for five minutes.

>> if someone else wants to weigh in on this as well it seems to me when i tour schools or hear anecdotes about good and bad schools sometimes the difference is the stability of which you get the most out of your employees if you have one that isn't cutting it to let them know and it seems to me when i deal with districts you have a superintendent who never moves out the dead weight. in general, not even in general, but specifically which type of schools find it easier to move on the deadweight? mr. clark talked about for whatever reason and i'm assuming he has his reasons. she said they wanted to get rid

of the best teachers. i've never heard of that. when you have underperforming people that don't care or they are burned out, which schools get rid of the bad teacher quicker and seems to care more about the students were just go with the flow? >> it is an important topic in that one of the most important ways in which a school leader and principateacherand principaa school success is how they manage to teachers and in particular, how they make decisions about who stays and who goes. i would simply say that it is very clear in most states for charter schools have a great deal more flexibility making those decisions. so, to some degree that means principles can do a better job were worse job and i think we know from the average results they tend to do a better job but they have more flexibility. >> so you are saying there's not a performing teacher that is

more caring or it's just the rules they work under as far as moving under you and i will give you an anecdote. back home i talked to a guy that sent his children to public school, two kids. the oldest got to second grade and all the parents were worried he would get a bad teacher. the first kids to watch the bullet and nine years later the second child got there and to his shock and dismay the same teacher was still there and the parents were still hoping that their kids didn't get the bad teacher, whether it was because the administration and the public school didn't care about the kids that much or whether it was just plain too tough given the contract. you may go through second grade once. if you have a better second grade teacher. which type of arrangement would

be more likely to put the kids first and remove the bad teacher and which type would be more likely to have the bad teacher there for ten years screwing up ten years worth of second graders education's? i can tell you want to say something. >> of course we have great freedom and flexibility in the charter school in order to attract the best and brightest to offer the support they need to thrive in the classroom. some of the most effective charter school organizations are just back from attracting the best and offering them the support, growing demand obligating them up to a school leader. my answer will be obvious in that i think the charter school sector has done a better job of attracting and keeping these high-quality teachers. if you want for instance this high-performing network in arizona, they place a premium on attracting teachers with subject matter often college professors into the classrooms to teach

students. >> may i just jumme i just jumpy quickly on that point? >> i want you to answer the question. >> to elaborate it come in the charter school the fact that the parents have the ability to seek out an alternative if they are assigned to teacher people want to avoid that a stronger pressure on the leaders of the school to deal with the underperformance. >> if there was a charter school, my friend in the district would have the option if they didn't have the option of going to a charter school instead. >> or if they were in a charter school for charter school would have a great deal of flexibility and incentive to address the problem. if we look at the if we look at survey data we find parents of charter school students nationally representative sample compare them to district school parents

are much more satisfied with the quality of their child's school and in particular the quality of teaching. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. thank you, madam chair. appreciate this hearing and i must admit this conversation is vexing to me. so much m of education is subjective. i'm sure there's lots of research, our own prejudice, all of us have strong feelings about our own education and education our kids get. it's part of us genetically. but this sort of presented to us and i'll just say i'm thinking about this because i'm from california and our primary election there were millions of dollars spent in races from the governors race down to school board races. anything in between. basically choosing sides. when i first started in the legislature, i believe charters have some worth but also have concerns about a lot of the

questions mr. scott brought up about who was left behind and also mindful about how charter schools began after brown versus the board of education and i'm a believer in the harvard professor, those who forget history tend to repeat it. how do we reconcile this? is really focus, start with you, dr. west, really focused objectively open-minded lady we need to have available to every young person in this country a robust public education system. how do we really get you toec evaluate that in the most subjective process, looking at things charters at work and how to bring into scale. .. comments we had the secretary here last week in the questions i asked on the editorial opinions on the newspaper about cleared

you have definitely strong opinions but you believe one of my favorite quotes, you have moment you second-guess your own research. >> thank you for a rich question. as i think -- i share your premise that we need to make sure we have a system that has access to high-quality publication education for all students. where do charters fit into that mix? they are one means by which we can do a better job reaching that goal and have a role to play in places where the existing arrangements have fallen short of that goal and

did so for an extended period of time. the question becomes what role do they play in the long run and that is the question of how they respond to the question of charters and other forms of competition in order to improve and make additional nontraditional actors no longer necessary but there has been a theme in this conversation that we have to choose between promoting options like charter schools and reforming institutions and i see them as more complementary, those two approaches rather than in conflict with one another. the question of doubt is how it plays out in the long run. >> for the kids and for the country. i have a very diverse district, one school district, not 15 miles away from another one,

recently, a third of this district, very affluent part of the bay area gets funding from the parents foundation. another one in the poor part of the district 15 minutes away, community middle school does a great job and the principles that we need more money for behavioral health for teachers because they have to do so much for these kids. it strikes me what happened is exactly opposite if i'm a proponent of charterch accountability. on accountability. >> i want to touch on almost every issue brought up here today, about accountability, discrimination, financial transparency goes back to how schools are being approved in the first place and being

overseen. almost everyone of them. why is this happening? what can we do differently? it goes back to those authorized spots. >> let mr. clark finished because i only have 10 minutes. sorry about that. >> what was the question again? >> my time is up. mostly accountability and new trade but that is a deeper question. we will talk to you afterwards. i yield back. >> thank you. mr. thompson, your recognized for 5 minutes. >> thanks to the panel for being here today. i'm pleased to represent the 15th district of pennsylvania. the district is one of the most rural districts of the country. the new district map will have a landmass the size of new jersey, within the district we only have one charter school. not because pennsylvania lacks

charter schools, pennsylvania has 183 charter schools that serve 173,000 students. with nearly half of the students being served in the philadelphia school district. the criticism around charter schools deal with lack of diverse city and inclusiveness, difficult to serve, students with disabilities. however, only 10% of charter school funding is in world community leaving another large demographic of students without the benefits charter schools have to offer. nina shokrali rees and mr. richmond, why don't we get more charter schools in rural communities and how do we ensure those charter schools are high-performing? >> great question. 11% of charter schools are in rural communities. there are great examples in states like north carolina. there is a great charter school right up the state line.

in delaware is a rural charter school called suffix academy. there is a great conversation with the leaders of these schools and those individuals in these rural communities to get them familiar with the concept of chartering. for a very long time most of our concentration has been in inner-city settings with demand this higher density of student population. we haven't been paying as much attention to rural communities and time to change that conversation and start introduce the concept in rural communities. in some instances it could be very conceivably easy for school district that leader to convert its own schools to charter schools. the way we go about doing this in rural communities will be for -- it will start by introducing folks on the ground, those operating effective rule school rural charter schools. in a lot of cases it has been a conversation first, followed by

quite frankly local isthmus or communities coming together to help that individual start a charter school. >> just one additional one after saying this has been a tough challenge in the charter community. in many states, when a charter school is approved by a school district, it can only serve kids from that school district. if there is a small number, a small town you will have a hard time economically figuring out how to get another. if you can broaden that geography to a larger area, you will more likely be able to get the numbers to work. >> 90% of charter schools are authorized by public schools. with that comes a level of responsibility by the traditional public schools for

the educational experience, in these charter schools. what access to information does the authorizing public schools have regarding charter school performance. do the authorizing schools have access to assure the oversight and accountability for what they have only authorized? >> one of the positive features of the school district authorizing charter schools is that it can have that information. i did this work for ten years in the school system in chicago. we knew who every one of the students were, student id numbers, special-education status, they were part of the overall system. we had that information. in some states that is not

true. in michigan authorizer's of universities, they have trouble getting that information because of privacy laws, getting into a technical area, that information is important for policymakers, authorizer's and the public. the more we can make that information available, transparent to the public and the parents the better we will be. >> i would agree. i support all forms of education. i heard complaints from traditional public schools they are held accountable for charter schools they authorized. this is in pennsylvania, different from elsewhere but they find themselves in difficult situations because they don't have information. >> i was in their shoes and they are to be held accountable for those charter schools. if you approve them and are

overseeing them you are accountable. i have been there. that is the reality. we all have to be accountable. >> thank you, mr. thompson. i'm going to ask my question and we will wind up. nina shokrali rees, dr. richmond, dr. west, a question i hope will pick up the whole time. i ask you to be fairly succinct. how continued support an extension of charter schools positively impacted academic achievement of all students including those who struggle due to language, disability or socioeconomic status or a combination? additional gains can be accomplished to further support access to high-quality charter school growth? we have heard some numbers on the other side so i would like to hear your thoughts. >> very quickly, the

evidence-based on the randomized trials and experimental studies are unequivocally in favor of the charter schools expand in lower income communities, a large percentage of low income and minority students, and in stanford, 36 days of additional learning for african-american students, 26 date of additional learning and reading for african-american students and hispanic students, additional learning and math, 25 additional months for reading and by and large, the evidence is in our favor and it double down on these investments, and we should close them immediately. >> mr. richmond? >> regarding a portion of your

question, some cities are leading the way on this. we need to be sure it is not enough to open a new school. we have to help parents get information about good reliable information, enrollment in those schools have to be run fairly, not discriminatory only. transportation, we heard mention of that, transportation is a big issue so we have to tackle that, find ways to solve it. opening the school is great but providing access to kids that didn't have access to a good school, that is what we are about, we can do that if we work together. >> dr. west. >> on the portion of the question about how best to support access to high-quality charter school growth, i mentioned in my testimony, the we have evidence that there's a lot of variation in quality of individual charter schools, we heard a lot today that there is some evidence the charter

sector is improving as a result of the closure of low performing schools, expansion of high-quality charter schools and how to speed up the process, that is the way to expand access to high-quality schools so that means authorizer accountability mr. richmond is talking about and continuing support of the replication and expansion grant program that was included for the first time in statute. i don't see the federal government allocating funds to those most successful in going around states and have charters authorized by their own state. it was a way to speed the process of continuous improvement. >> have we seen any potential for charter schools to transform career and technical education. >> roughly 400 charter schools that label themselves better

better serving cte or stem fields, roughly 200,000 students in these charter schools, charter schools are schools of choice. depending on the needs of the community, in some communities they have grown and in other communities they haven't but there are best practices out of some of these schools and i was visiting in indianapolis that decided to create a charter school to attract more students from that city, getting initially all over the world and it would be interesting to see how many low income and minority students get their degree from purdue university thanks to charter schools. >> thank you very much. i will yield back my time and yield to the gentlewoman from california for any closing comments.

>> i appreciate your last question because as we look to partner with communities in schools, we want to be sure many opportunities open up for young people and we are primed to do that and scale that in a way that makes a lot of sense and creates careers but people had a vision in the past. i want to comment because we know that the key for all young people is a good future and we have to be sure, we have 90% of students attend schools that are not charters are specially designed by communities but still part of communities that need to function very well. it is about leadership and resources and how we make sure

communities are mobilized to do better by their kids and that is the general theme we see throughout schools, we have to be sure more communities feel a need to do that and look at how kids are achieving and if we find that as we know there are pockets of students that are not, we have to make sure that school system is equalized for more children, innovation becomes the key, is not enough if the opportunity for those youngsters far short when we compare the investment of those communities and it is a big charge but we need to be engaged. thank you for being here, chairman. >> i want to thank our

witnesses for being here today and sharing your valuable time with us. you heard what makes it part of the educational landscape for our students and lax oversight of the schools. much of the conversation boiled down to accountability, and requires states to hold all public schools, both traditional and charter, accountable for delivering high-quality education. you have spoken on this issue and now states and school districts are working to ensure the promise to deliver to the students they serve. with charter schools we learn today, critical for awful risers to also do their part

because as mr. clark, only one chance, and i agree with him, the accountability needs to be at the closest level of the students. i served on a local school board for 12 years and i believe very much in that accountability. also thinking about the question of why we don't have more charter schools in rural areas and it is a matter of scale sometimes and students and also think about the fact that i represent a very rural area and i am out in my district every weekend talking to people, meeting with people and i really have a feeling that because of rural areas people are much more involved in their schools and perhaps the schools are much more responsive to the parents and teachers and the people who are in the schools live in the

community. the difference between rural schools and urban schools, you don't quite have the same sense of community that you have in the rural areas and i wonder if that is not something that i know dr. west and anybody is doing any research on. it would be fascinating to know if something like that is occurring. rural people just step up to meet the needs in their communities in a way that is quite different from what happens in urban areas. there was a cake auction put on by a little church in one of my counties and i went by last year accidentally. this year i plan to go. about 25 families there, 25 people there, 12 or 13 families, and brought one or

two. they raised $4000. they bought their own cakes. may be five other people showed up who didn't bring a cake and all that money went to the backpack program. they donated all that money to buy food for students and i am constantly amazed at the generosity and involvement of rural people in the needs of the community and i don't think you see that as you do in urban areas. we learned today something i didn't actually know and i appreciate you bringing it up, 90% of the charter schools are authorized by the school district, that is new information for me.

obviously something to pay attention to. and and some way or another, there are no forest reasons to charter school. and it is a need out there that even the school districts c want to happen. you talked about the issue of the quality of teachers and i appreciate very much the comments made about the charter schools having that ability to employ the best teachers and the teachers that don't fit in. they have a common philosophy that in all cases i think charter schools are very

successful, there are strong leaders and dr. west, you said they establish a common vision. i wish that were possible again in all the public schools but we have known for a long long time that what makes a great school, what makes it successful is a wonderful leader who hires parental involvement. that is what generally charter schools do and additional public schools are not able to do or they either don't welcome parental involvement or the parents think this is not my responsibility, just turning it over to the schools to do, you don't always get the same involvement but when you do you get great results. i'm a big believer in charter

schools. i tell people this, you haven't heard it. staff have heard it. i grew up in a poor area, an excellent education, worked hard. it helped me get out of poverty and have a successful life. what i would like to see is that for everybody. you can do it in traditional public schools and you can do it easier in charter schools. as i said we have heard how critical it is to parents to be involved in schools to work with family so students succeed. charter schools do a better job of that and i wish more of that were done in the public schools. so i thank you for calling our attention to many issues that need to be resolved and reminding people they have to hold accountable all along the

chain those who are responsible for different things, thank you for being here, there being no further business, this hearing is adjourned.

>> here is what is live on the c-span networks on friday. the work on opioid importation and illegal trafficking legislation, the house is in at 9 eastern on c-span. c-span to hospital get an update on us preparedness for pandemics and infectious disease outbreaks and a look at donald trump's proposed postal service, ways to modernize the u.s. postal service at noon eastern and on c-span3 the rand corporation hosts a congressional briefing on russia's military strategy, watch that at 9:00 eastern. >> this weekend c-span cities tour takes you to new orleans, louisiana on its try centennial

year. with help of cox communications cable partners we will export the literary scene and history of the city. on booktv, here about the life and influence of tennessee williams best known for his plays the glass menagerie, cat on a hot tin roof and a streetcar named desire. tony roberts with his book do and power, on sunday at 2:00 eastern on american history tv explore the exhibit new orleans, the founding era. >> new orleans is celebrating its try centennial. the historic new orleans collection has decided for our try centennial exhibition we want to look back at the city's earliest years and what it was like when the city first developed. >> that a visit to two jacks, one of the city's oldest restaurant. >> the food here takes a much larger piece than it does anywhere else.

we live to eat in new orleans. >> watch the senate cities tour of louisiana saturday at noon eastern on booktv. and sunday at 2:00 on american history tv on c-span3 working with cable affiliates as we explore america. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television company and today we continue to bring unfiltered coverage of progress, the white house, the supreme court and public policy events in washington dc and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> sen. lisbeth ward spoke to a civil liberties union conference in washington dc. this is 30 minut