leadership around the world and diplomacy on national security. speakers include former secretary of state madeleine albright. former senate majority leader tom daschle and for california representative barbarae, hosted by the u.s. global leadership coalition, it's live beginning at 10:30 a.m. eastern, here on c-span2. now senate energy and natural resources hearing on new technology to fight wildfires. forest management strategies and interior department training on workplace, this is an hour and a half. [inaudible conversations] >> good morning, everyone, the committee will come to order. nice to be able to welcome back to the committee miss

christensen, welcome, mr. rupert, welcome to you. we're here to discuss the outlook for the 2018 fire season, based on what already note to date, it doesn't look good. last fire the department released the monthly fire outlook for june to september. warmer and drier than average was anticipated and the southwest in particular is at high risk for wildfires due to elevated drought conditions and strong winds. i feel like a weather reporter here. the kinder fire sparked in arizona mark the first large scale fire in the west and there are sem including the massive blazes in colorado ap new mexico that are already forcing evacuations. already this year almost 24,000 wildfires have burned about 1.7 million acres across the

country, and this is just june the 5th. the number of wildfires and acres that ultimately burn in 2018 depends not only on wildfires potential and forest coitions, but on the timing of lightning strikes and human-caused ignitions. nationwide. people are responsible for starting 84% of the wildfir and by starting so many fires, many through human carelessness, people are essentially lengthening the fire season into the early spring and later fall times of the year when lightning just doesn't have a major role. reek fire that raged through the columbia river george in 2017 started by a teenager that was messing around with firecrackers, just one of many examples. so with the 2018 fire season upon us, i want to start with a plea to people everywhere, just please be smart about fire. we can make immeasurable difference in what this wildfire season ends up looking like and it starts with being

careful. it's also time to execute a multi--pronged federal, state, local strategy to meet the increases wildfires in an efficient manner. first is innovation. our committee discusses ener innovation on the energy side, but with respect to wildfire and management. last fall we held an entire hearing on wildfire technology. i'm interested in the use of unmanned aircraft systems or drones which are playing a greater role in wildfire response, detecting, mapping and helping to contain wildfires, it's far cheaper to operate, maintain and train personnel on drones and it also helps reduce risks for pilots, crews and firefighters. the department in the interior state of alaska had been early adapters for drones not just for wildfires. it used it across the management function, including

to monitor the ongoing volcanoic eruption in hawaii. we should do much more in land management including in wildfire management. i know that senator cantwell is interested in this and hopefully this is an area we can make some bipartisan progress the forest service and department of interior have long coordinated aspects of their suppression programs through the national interagency fire center by collaboration and still could improve in procurement, budgeting, information technology and human capital. one program to focus on, of course, is aviation services. i still don't fully understand why forest service and interior have their own separate programs. i've also said over and over, that wildfire is not just a budget problem, it is a management problem, meaning that we must actively manage our forests.

in alaska we've seen the benefits of of upfront investments and hazardous f reduction and fire breaks before fires start. back in 2014, a large strategically placed fuel break betwee the national refuge saved homes and lives during the massive river fire that in 2015 has the fuel reduction treatments conducted earlier around sterling reduced the wildfire risk to that community during the card street fire. in the fy 18 omnibus, congress provided significant funding to address wildfires. we also provided some new authorities, not necessarily at the level that i believe are necessary, but what we could characterize as a start. the agencies wanted tse authorities, so we certainly expect them to put them to good use. so, no excuses there. i want to end by saying that to effectively fight fires and manage the lands, you must rid

your agencies of sexual harassment, bullying, and retaliation. workplace misconduct canno be tolerated, especially on the firelines in the field. focus on the mission and be professional about it, or be ready to face the consequences. so with that, again, i would like to women the interim chief of the for rest service, vicki christensen and wildfires jeffrey rupert. i look forward to our discussion this morning as we work to reduce wildfires across the country. senator cantwell? >> thank you, madam chair, and thank you for that very strong statement. i wholeheartedly agree with you on the issue of sexual harassment and what the agency needs to do to better manage and train and skill people in respon t these es. i strong statement about drones. as we approach this fire season, making sure that those

on the fire line have the best possible information is going be to critical. on weather conditions, on information about fire movement, on all of that, and recently attended a breakfast where the secretary of ag, was enteringnto an mou. the department of interior has done unbelievable work on our drone system. i don't want the department of ag to waste one minute recreating something that could just be the same implementation that the department of interior has done. so, i hope that-- i hope that they will work on that. so, i also thank you for this time. i wanted to get started on the release over the weekend by the inner agency fire center. fr yrs now, t comttee has heard over and over that our wildfires are getting worse and climate scientists have been telling us the fire season

is getting longer and hotter and now, this new forecast in the pacific northwest will r have a july-august fire season on the side of what we have seen in the past, being even potentially worse. most of the west receive less than 50 of its avege participation, i'msoy, precipitation for may,ch will likely result in fuels in the mountains becoming critically dry by late july. my colleague, senator wyden and i were discussing this as relates to what that means for us anytime, that left less precipitation, just a sooner, sooner, drier environment in which we all have to be very, very mindful of. nearly all of the country experienced temperatures that were 2 to 6 degrees above average last month. central washington temperatures were 10 degrees above average. and because these conditions are supposed to last through september, places likes

southeast washington will likely experience more large fires than they have in previous years, starting in july. areas in washington, and i know that we ouple of fires already started in our state, hopefully people will be working very quickly to put those out. but it's just a very early reminder of of how challenging this season could be. areas in washington and in oregon and i know my colleague will probably be here from idaho, and in idaho, east of the cascade crest will probably experience more large fires than we've seen in the last few years starting in august. given that we are looking at this summer, i want to make sure that we're ensuring that firefighters have every tool available to them to help fight these fires. they need to be as safe as possible, and as efficient as possible. everyone here has heard me talk about the carlton complex fire we had in washington a few years ago where 149,000 acres burned up literally in a single

day. the following year, the fires in washington were even worse and we witnessed firsthand the disaster and what the aftermath means for people living in these communities. our heroic men and women firefighters did everything th could to be ready and we need to do everything we can to be ready this fire season. fires are becoming more lethal and part of t speech that chief christensen gave during st week's inner wildland fire conference, one of the statements since 1910 more than 1,000 deaths from wildland fires, more than a quarter of those, 255 have occurred in the last 15 years so we can see they literally are becoming more lethal. so, when we get to questions, i'm definitely going to ask about our efforts on modernization. we want to make sure that every

tool is there for our wildland firefighters. as i said, with information. we also want to make sure that our modernizeded fire slt imple in aayhat we know that the fety and training of of those wildland firefighters have an understanding of that equipment. we had a very unfortunate death in the 30-mile fire in which the then deployment of shelter wasn't really successfully deployed and the tragic loss of life in the pacific northwest. so, as you now deploy new shelters and wildland firsith ver few hours of literal training compared to our permanent firefighting force, we want to make sure that everybody is trained and adequate and also, not an overexpectation of being someplace that they shouldn't be. so, we want to work with you on that.

we also want to have more hasty response to wildfires. firefighters need to be able to use those technologies that give them the most efficient resource, and we also want to be very strategic about protecting these communities that are in the wildland, urban interface as soon as possible. i, in march, cgress took an important step by addressing the problem and members of this committee worked very hard on an ous bill dedicated to fire, wildfire, and many of the people here in this room worked very hard on that. this helps support services have resources to respond to wildfires and do necessary work and we provided significant funding for firefighting for the next ten years and to get out of the fire borrowing. so, i hope that there's enough funding that is there on the non-fire programs that can benefit our programs as well, especially increase in funding that will help us do prevention

and treatment in adv a prevent the loss of the forest service non-fire accounts. so, what was included in that package that we think makes things easier, obviously, our state agencies like washington d.n.r. are able to partner better with the forest service. we hope you take advantage of that. i think the first time in time, decades, the d.n.r. was called to the line. that's how bad the fire season was. we hope that the good neighbor projects are implemented. we hope that the vetion management and power lines is implemented. we hope the 20-year contracts to do thinning on cross-laminated tim per are implemented and we hope that the forest service will do everything it can to reduce fuels in advance. i want to highlight this interesting article just showed up in this month's journal of forestry which basically shows that the research shows that

per acres burned on a wildfire in august puts more than five times as much smoke as a controll bn in may and june. now, i knowthat, this probably makes sense to people, but at the same time, this is one of the dilemmas we've been fighting. i guarantee if you ask people in puget sound would you tolerate a little bit of smoke in those months to reduce the constant summer-wide haze that was then present because of fire, i guarantee you, they would say, yes, let's do the prescribed burning in the month that are wet, that help us control these burns in the most significant way. so, obviously, we have more work to donat, bui think that article showed us that this is the most wise spending that we can do and we just need to push through on this. so, i will be asking, also, chief christensen about the

shift to contracts for 35% of the air tankers and water scoopers, including aeroflight in spokane and to a call when eded. i want to make sure that you have every tool available to you, but i want to make sure we're notus going with one source of resource because it's a larger pot of money. i would feel better sleeping at night that you had every tool available. we know that the water does not put out the fire, that the larger retardant does, but with this many fire starts in this dry of season and communities that are so stretched and when the entire upper part of northwest washington and northeastasn w on fire, basically, you know, communities were defending themselves. having that kind of air ability to help litigate is so, so important to these communities, so, i understand that what we'll get to the air tankers.

i've been long here, but i just want to say that the last year fire managers requested, but did not receive an air tanker, 371 times because none were available. so, i get that your goal is to have the most resources. i want you to have the most resources, too, but i don't want you to have to give up one for the other. so, let's work together on figuring out how we get you both and what is going to continue to be a challenging fire season. madam chair, we just can't work fast enough. the changing climate and environment is making fire more challenging environment for our forest service, for our wildland firefighrs, for our communities, we put a down payment on, but we need to do so much more, and so, i thank everybody and thank you for having this important hearing today. >> thank you, senator cantwell.

we will now turn to our witnesses this morning. miss christensen, again, welcome. the interim chieff forest service, and we appreciate your leadership. we'd ask you both to try to keep your comments to five minutes so we have an opportunity for questions. we have two votes scheduled for 11:00 and we'll power through them so that we can allow members to ask their very timely questions to a very timely issue. welcome, ms. christensen. >> madam chair, member of the committee, thank you for inviting me back to testify. i'd like to touch on three topics today. the wildfire outlook and our preparations to respond. our progress to increase work to improve forest conditions and reduce fire risk. and an update on our actions to create a safe respectful workplace. above average wildfire activity appears to be our new normal.

forecasters predict 2018 will rival last year's historic season when the federal government spent 2.9 billion dollars fighting fires. they predict above average significant fire potential in 11 western states at various times between now and the end of september, as senator cantwell displayed. firefighting is not solitary work. no one organization can do it alone. we rely on the cooperation and shared resources with states, tribes, federal agencies and local partners. with our collective resources we maintain what we need to effectively respond. the forest service itself has 10,000 firefigh, engines and hundreds of available aircraft. our firefighting efforts suppress 98% of all fires at

ten acres or less. we are also takingteps to better manage costs for fire response. we know there is no blank check. we will make decisions to ensure we spend dollars in the right place that will make a difference. we are evalug reducing cost centers to ensure we are most effective and efficient with taxpayer dollars. in addition to wildfire response, our work is equally about improving forest conditions and providing uses and experiences and services. with the help of congress, we are equipped with new tools and the fire funding fix to help us get more done. it's our time to deliver and we are making steady progress. will submit two-year plans that will demonstrate how they're going to employ the new authorities. they'll include the modified

good neighbor agreements, use of new categorical exclusions for wildfire resilience and optimal location for the 20-year stewardship contracts. we also look forward to subm our blueprint to reduce hazus fuels in high risk areas. we are already seeing increased results. we will tell 3.4 billion board feet of timber this year, while improving resiliency and health on more than 3 million acres. we have increased the number of acres we've treated by 36%. timber harvests rose 13% from last year. and we are delivering it earlier in the year. at this point we have harvested nearly 30% more timber than we did last year. our 2018 tber target is the highest it's been in two decades. we have also strengthened

cooperation with states and other partners to do more work. our increased work with states has resulted in 150 good neighbor agreements in 34 states. one agreement in utah resulted in 36 projects that will treat over 50,000 acres. meanwhile, we are fundamentally refoing our internal processes and it's paying off. we are streamlining our planning over the last eight months and it's decreased the time to authorize projects. this has reduced cost in just the eight months by 30 million dollars. we are updating o technology to expedite timber sales and our shovel-ready work has increased to build on our momentum for 2019. there is much more work to do, but we are off to a productive start. finally, our mission success does depend highly on a skilled

motivated work force. we will continue to act with urgency a to end harassment and retaliation in the forest service. next week over 30,000 employees will take part in a full day's session called stand up for each other. employees will receive new code of conduct and mandatory anti-harassment training with our broad, new policy. you have m personal commitment to do whatever it takes to bring about a permanent culture change in the forest service. this level of commitment goes for all the work wedo. we will ensure your investments make a difference to americans who deserve healthy, productive forestsnd a government that works for them. thank you, madam chair, members of the committee, i'm happy to answer your questions. >> thank you, miss christensen. mr. rupert, welcome to the committee.

>> good morning ranking member murkowski, thank you to the committee for the opportunity to appear before you to discuss the 2018 outlook in the department of the interior's fire management program. as we've already heard this morning, 2018 is shaping up to be another challenging year. the cumulative impacts of tro trout-- drought, invasive species there are landscapes to more, devastating and costly wildfires. we've seen wildfires in the south, the midwest and the southwest. we can expect the fire season in the west to be comparable to recent years as the outbreak of major wildfires in new mexico and colorado demonstrate. we will continue to mobilize personnel, single engine air

tankers and others in a full firefighting effort. as the secretary zinke and purdue reaffirmed to all wildfire leadership in both departments, the protection of firefighters and public safety is the top priority for every wildland fire activity, and management decision. effective wildfire response is also built on trust. on teamwork, and on collaboration among firefighters and their partners. a workplace that's free from harassment, and where all members of the firefighting community have a strong trust relationship with their colleagues is critical to achieving a safe and effective response. the department of the interior recently implemented comprehensive anti-harassment policy, takes meaningful steps to address harassment by stepping up training and

establishing a clearly defined complaint and resolution process so that all employees, including those on the fire line can focus on the mission. to reduce the threat of wildfires it's critical that we take a more active approach to the management of vegetation and our nation's forests and rangeland. and there was an active way to reduce hazards and establish fire resill -- resilient lands scapes, a way to reduce fuels and forest and health and protect people's lives and their communities and preve preven catastrophic wildfires. vegetation management con collaborative

collaboratively with our department lands is one of the most effective strategies for mitigating wildfire risk. coupled with more aggressive vegetation management, technology is helping us to prevent and manage catastrophic wildfires. the use of unmanned aircraft systems or uaf's is a perfect example of technology and leveraging it to fight wildfires in safer and more efficient ways. last year, the department conducted over 700 ua. is missions on more than 70 wildfires and we're on track to surpass that this year. the versatility of uas is making a big difference in the way that we're fighting wildfis. uas's provide real-time data and information that's use today per sue surveilnce and reconnaissance, detecting hot spots, improving mapping and increasing the effectiveness of monitoring. we're also exploring a number of new technologies, including

applications and alert systems that improve firefighter safety in collaboration with the department of defense. i would also like to point out the department is widely using uas's to support natural resource management and for search and rescue missions. for example, last week, the usgs, u.s. geological survey carried out a survey of the mount kilauea volcano. they spotted an individual cornered by a lava flow. the remote pilot using the uas was able to safely navigate the individual to a search crew that ultimately led that person out of harm's way. so, we look forward to working collaboratively with our partners throughout the wildfire community to continue to build on these and other efforts in ways that support the safety of firefighters and the public. enhance our firefighting capability and strengthen relationships with our

partners. i hope it goes wutsa, but i'll say it anyway, thanks for the sustained support of the committee for the entire wildland community and the opportunity to discuss the department's program. i'll be happy to answer any questions. thank you. >> thank you, mr. rupert. thank you, both. let me begin with the questions here and i appreciate that both of you have addressed the issue of work force misconduct, harassment, and what you're doing to bring abouthe very, very necessary changes to rid the agencies of sexual harassment in all forms of workplace misconduct. miss christensen, you mentioned that you've got a code of conduct that has been introduced, mandatory training. mr. rupert, you have indicated that you have a new anti-harassment policy.

and you reference those that are-- that this training includes those that are on the fire line. chief christensen, is the outreach here for the training and thi ayession that you've referenced, does this also include those within the firefiting ranks? is this people within your administrative offices? who are we covering here and what is the extent of these new policies that have been put in place? >> thank you very much, senator. yes, it is for every one of our permanent and seasonal employees, that's why we waited until this second week of june, the majority of our seasonals are on boarded now. so, this is-- we are, you know, shutting down a business for one day, rolling each week, in different units, one day to focus on this

training and importance of breaking the silence and what it really is going to take to shift our culture, sustainbly. we started with listen and learn sessions across our whole organization. now, that did not include as many of our seasonals, but that really was-- we needed to demonstrate as leaders what was really being felt in the work force. that really fueled the design for our stand-up for each other days next week andwe-- about 18 months ago -- passed a very broad anti-harassment policy and we have been working on this agency-specific training with real agency examples, with real employees, on a-- we've recorded our own training and there will be discussions in every work group across our organization, administrative

staff, field staff, fire staff, the headquarter staff, and each work unit will identify what they need to make commitments to each other to improve the work environment. you know, we've started with an enhanced reporting center. we opened that up in the fall of 17 so that the fear of of retaliation. we want to minimize the fear of retaliation, we want to hear if anyone has concerned. we've seen increased reporting. >> what action then is taken if it is reported and this is a situation out in the field? you've got an active-- you've got an active fire in the way that people are working. how do you enforce this? because it's nice to be able to say that we've got a one-day training session and then you go out there for the season, but you-- it's not like you're reporting

to somebody in an office back here. and i think this has been one of the very significant concerns is that out in the field it is a different environment and that there is more that's quote, accepted. >> you're absolutely right. that's about getting under wh's in our culture. so, there's both being very clear about what is not accepted and changing those behaviors and then there are structural things that will allow reporting in different ways. so, even if you're out in the field, if they're self-service, 1-800 number 24/7 will pick up, that someone that has a complaint can report it to and then we have timelines. action must be taken within 24 hours to look into an investigation and to evaluate the situation and to take

corrective action. >> miss rupert, very quickly, on d-- mr. rupert, very quickly, on doi side do you have required reporting and action? >> the policy that's put in place at doi sets rigid management and supervisors and timelines to respond to complaints. and so, the tremendous focus on ensuring that that process that really explores and understands and, you know, provides that inquiry and investigation is-- it's rigid and the expectations go along with it to follow through. i think to the point of, you know, in the field, especially in, you know, these areas or on these incidents where we have very, sort of diverse organizations that are all contributi as both of our departments, i think, have

started to put in much more rigid expectations for behaviors, inappropriate behavior will be treat with, that we're anticipating that that willate more interaction whe these things occur and we've, you know, we've had dialog at senior management level, not only between interior and ag, but also with our partners across the entire community, the states, local organizations, tribes, in those inner agency settings to ensure that, you know, these incidents occurring, where this ours on this incidents, where we have this sort of diverse community working together that we don't lose track of those complaints and that we are following these

back to the -- back to the home organization to essentially ensure that the people are being held responsible for their behavior. >> well, and i know that from an oversight perspective, we will be back to you on this to make sure, again, that this is more thanone-day training, that this really is about changing a culture that has been allowed to take over our agencies. that has been an extraordinarily black mark. so w need to correct that. you know that and we want to keep monitoring it. senator cantwell. >> thank you, madam chair. chief christensen and mr. rupert, we were altogether at the department of ag to discuss the mou between the department of interior and the forest service and i saw that last week the department of interior awarded four contracts to companies who operate medium sized unmanned aerial vehicles for wildfires.

so, i'm proud to say that one of those was in situ from southwest washington and northeast oregon, a company that spans the columbia and is on both sides, literally, the company is on both sides and we're so proud of that technology, but most importantly, we're proud that interior is being very aggressive about using this tool on wildland fires and that we want to make sure that there's now no barriers between the forest service and interior working together to implement this. this is so critical for information about fire size, starts, and safety and security of our firefighters. so, is there anything that is holding us up from being very aggressive about this deployment, during this fire season? do you have to do anything else to make sure that these tools are now used across agencies or implemented? >> senator cantwell, thank you for that question and i'm-- you know, i'm pleased to say

that this is-- this is an example of-- that we're really coordinating together. the forest service is clearly looking to the early adopters and the innovations that doi has really stepped out on and we applaud that, instead of us spending the dollars and the time to do the innovation and the testing that they've done. we are absolutely committed. we are drafting on them, if you would-- if i might say, with our policies, our procedures. to make sure that we have interoperability. the offices at aviation services at doi has been extremely helpful in our policies and procedures. they have done train the trainer for our staff and we can access their call when

needed contracts at any time, as well as the state's and others. we are not ashamed to say that we applied dartment interior colleagues and we ar also -- see the very strong use and innovation on safety aspects of using uas's on fires and look forward when they can have additional capacity beyond just the surveillance. >> thank you. well, anything else, mr. rupert? >> well, thank you for the-- thank you, vicki, too. i would just say the easy answer to the question is, yes. the call when needed, the aus contract is available not only to the forest service, but it's administered as a national asset the way that we have other national assets and it's available through the larger community on those instances. >> i assure you we're going to

need them. so, thank you. on call when needed, to the air tanker issue, so i am concerned that we're shifting 35% of the current air tanker contracts to call when needed. we had a chance to talk about this before, chief christensen, about the washington that call when needed contracts are more expensive per day and, but yet, i think to get them, you're going to have to call them every day and say you're on call, and what i'm trying to understand is how we're going to supplant that for the panoply of resources that you could have. so i'm just trying to untand, is this about going deep for the resources from a budgeting perspective, or you truly believe that call when needed as it relates to these services are the most cost effective way for taxpayers? >> that's a really good question and we, as i said

earlier, we will monitor closely that balance between the upfront expenditures we use for exclusive use and how much we actually need them, versus the yes, more expensive, but we pay for them when we use them, call when needed. it is-- as it art-- it is an art and a science and it's looking backward and we have to look forward. to be honest with you, senator, we would like to rebalance in that incoming years. we think that we need to have a little bit more balance between exclusive use and call when needed. we were in transition this year, quite frankly, from getting the legacies or that contract is done, and this is a transition year. >> well, i so appreciate you

saying that because i want you to have every sing tool you need. i want you to have air tankers. i know that you had one acquired from the department of defense and not sure you're going to use it. i want you to have these water scoopers. i want you to have the large retardants, i want you to have every single asset so i hope you'll -- given what you just said -- work how not to make that a transitional season here, but where you have every tool at your disposal. that's what people in the west want us to be doing. they want us to be giving them every tool possible to fight this fire season. so, thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you, senator cantwell. >> thank you very much, madam chair. miss christensen and mr. ruper mr. rupert, thank you for being with us. the national fire center's outlook for 2018 largely contained positive news for wyoming. we all know how quickly on the ground conditions can change.

across wyoming we've had above average snow pack and spring runoff which has been labeled below normal fire potential, but higher precipitation, as you know, can cause rapid grass rote a-- growth and dry out. and the sixth year, wyoming is going to see fire this year and questions remain about forest health, effective use of resources, improving coordination among agency partners and how we can best do that, and a lot of it comes down to the millions of acres of the eco system across the west affected by bark beetles that we're note stranger to dieoffs. the standing dead trees continue to pose significant threats. you've both identified the needs to reduce hazardous fuels. both agencies have tools to take preventive action including those provided in the

recent ominous spending bill. in places like wyoming where low intensity fire season is expected and it may happen otherwise, do your agencies have what was needed to take advantage and adapt fuel treatments as itoes on in re time to increase preventive measures to kind of get ahead of the curve in terms of all of this standing fuel? >> senator, thank you for that really good question and i don't mean to burst your bubble, but the white on the map that senator cantwell put up doesn't mean it's below normal, it means it's normal conditions, so that we still will see fires on the white part. my point-- >>, but, yes, you don't have as much red in wyoming so you're exactly right. we have to use every tool in the toolbox for treating these hazardous fuels. that is mechanical treatments, but it's also using fire when we are in control of fire,

because fire will help reduce fuel loads in many of the eco systems and sometimes they need both. so, we have more favorable conditions, we need to take advantage of those operating windows both on fire severity and smoke management and very good comments by sator cantwell in your opening statement about we are working with the public how we take our smoke, under terms that we, none of us cared for, versus terms that are going to improve conditions. so, we just had a two-hour call out of our leadership across the country about how we deploy resources, not only for fires, for wildfire response, but for hazardous fuel and oth important treatments. so, we're on that and states are a critical part of that discussion as well. >> thank you, mr. rupert, do you have the flexibility-- >> yeah, so, for interior, a

lot of the-- so the efficiencies, for example, on the omnibus largely we're focused on forest authorities and so we're largely still operating in the fr framewor tte've operated on in interior, in terms of plan projects and ultimately working to put them on the ground. we're very much focused in interior on streamlining those existing, that existing frame work and that existing process and we're making good headway there. so, ultimately projects, there is an aspect of projects needing to have that planning to help drive them. we're still very much doing that. by the same token, conditions on the ground in addition to values at risk and their exposure, potential exposure to wildfire, yeah, weather conditions and having the right conditions to get in there and

do proactive vegetation management is very much part of the equation, year to year and season to season. >> thank you. miss christensen, the black hills forest formed a number of years ago, advisory and information from various stake holders. they have to be approved by the secretary and takes some time. without approval of pending nominations the march and april and may meetings had to be canceled because there aren't enough members and the board is planning to meet again in june, but again, with this many vacancies, that means it's going to have to be canceled. is there any update on the situation and the nominations. >> senator, barrasso, we clearly hear the concern and we're making this, too, a priority to get the willing nominations in and have the vetting done and working very closely with the secretary's office. he, i know, is also committed

because being a good neighbor is having everyone at the table to have a voice in how their lands are managed. so, it's a priority for us. >> thank you very much. thank you, madam chairman. >> thank you, senator barrasso. senator wyden. >> thank you, senator for your leadership. we, of course, have the fire borrowing language on the books. i think that is going to be helpful for the long-term. miss christensen, we look forward to getting the plan at the end of june on how you're going to deal with the backlog on how the fuel reductions, that's what we talked about here in this committee and i very much appreciated the fact that you've been in discussions with us how you're going to be attacking that and i look forward to that as well. i think the country very much wants to know what the game plan is for reducing those hazardous fuel. for the country, and sometimes it feels like all of us

individual senators are running weather bureaus because our citizens are so concerned about this. for the country, may is the ominous month for the fire season, and that really traditionally gives you a sense of where things are and like many of my colleagues, it looks like we're going to have some real challenges in oregon this summer and by the way, our friend senator heinrich is exhibit a for this proposition much the reason he is not with us today is because he's in new mexico where he's dealing with fires. so this is not some kind of abstract theory. so, let me, if i might, talk to you about tair tanker issue. in my state, as was the case in many places, they felt they didn't have enough tankers last summer. so, i think a lot of people are going to listen to this and say, well, they play is shell game in d.c.

they're going to have this kind of tanker, that kind of tanker. i know that's not your intention. so, let me ask it this way, you've got this plan. let's say there are not enough tankers, period. lives are on the line. ves that sometimes can be affected by hours, not even days. what do you do in that kind of situation? well, senator, you know, we really appreciate the concern of the citizens and i would be delighted if we could have a little window into the intelligence, the predictive services and the 24-hour decision making that is done at the geographical area and at the national area. so, when we're in those high preparedness levels, we call them preparedness levels four

and five, where nationally we have to prioritize the resources. each geographic area and for senator cantwell and you, it's the north, the pacific northwest geographical area, the executives and their key fire leadership are meeting hourly and updating the situation and that feeds into the national interagency fire center where the national group of all of our representatives-- >> can i stop you right there? i think it's very constructive and it's also in english because so much of what goes on in fires is hard to comprehend to people. i believe what you've just said is you use your predictive services and then on an ongoing basis really hourly are then able to deploy the assets you have.

what if you don't have enough assets? in other words, you made a judgment that you just don't have enough assets, which has been the case over the years, where every the best planning-- i mean, people's intentions, you don't have enough assets. what do you do then? >> so it's a prioritization, that's what i was getting at, it's a tiered prioritization of the most criticalhreats to humans and communities first, generally critical wider and the like and then we do have additional surge capacity that we can bring >> where does the surge capacity come from? are these just tankers that are somewhere else that aren't part of the two categories you told senator cantwell about, but this is kind after third category. >> yes. >> surge category that you can bring in if you just don't have >>yes. >>re do they come from? >> the department of defense, the mobile aviation units, the modular units. >> how many of them are there?

>> we have seven, yeah, seven. seven of those, and then generally, by the time we are in the significant part of the fire year, we say fire year in the west, we can bring our partners down from canada, our two additional surge capacities and then we areutting out additional call when needed and later in the summer we anticipate having at least five more call when needed, so up 30. >> i am ove m time and i just want to close by saying, i think you're working very hard at this and you're playing offense and that is really the key and i would just like it if you could also finish to the committee through senator murkowski and senator cantwell a written answer to what i just asked about, when there aren't enough tankers. i had never really heard a whole lot about this sort of

an i knew a little bit about rs defense and i was chair of the committee, senator murkowski and i used to talk to us. if you could get that to us in writing. i think you're working very hard at this and your relation with keeping us informed has been very constructive and i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> if i could have 15 minutes and i want to make sure that nasa is the partner you want on those hourly updates. we want to make sure that nasa is giving you the satellite information you need on an hourly basis. >> absolutely. we are working with nasa. >> thank you both. senator danes. >> thank you, good to see you before this committee, miss christensen. last season in montana nearly-- 680,000 acres, we were left with a great deal dead and dieing timber which causes

serious public safety risks yet we see significant delays negotiated with analysis of the bund areas and they prevent the salvage and other long-term post-restoration work in a timely manner. montana scratches their heads because we c't g into the burned areas to salvage that timb mber. i've heard from many montanaens who want the forest service to use your determination authority to get more post-firework done sooner. as you know, i encourage you to approve those esd requests for the firesn montana last year. could you provide an update on my request for esd approvals? >> thank you, senator daines. i have to say i'm quite pleased with our staff in montana. they activated quickly. we put together strike teams to

work on the salvage, worked with the communities and with industry on what would be the ideal place that industry could receive this salvage material and using the emergency situation determination is a very important tool. for both health and safety and for the imminent threat of the product declining rapidly. i have signed the first one of those. i expect the sunrise project on the lolo national forest, i signed last week on regional forester martin knows what i expect to see for my confidence to sign the next four and i will have those within the next two weeks. >> that is refreshing and it's very good to hear, chief. given the sometimes lengthy approval process in time with esd's, what can congress do to

encourage faster and more extensive use of this tool by the agency? >> thank you, senator. you know, i think it's just understanding the process and the balance. obviously, we take this tool very seriously, but we need to not abuse it. so, we want to-- we want to be strategic and really look foras where those health and safety or critical design in the product are in place. so, working, you know, your voice in the communities, that we'd like their early involvement in the scoping so we can move out quickly. so, you know, we do this in a transparent way with communities and citizens that care. so, your help in getting communities to work with us quickly, i think, will help down the line. and your connued support of the tool that we can sustain it

and uphold it as it was intended to be used. >> thank you, chief. mr. rupert. can you discuss the economic, as well as the environmental benefits of carrying out restoration efforts as quickly as possible, following large fires on doi lands? >> sure. i think, so restoration, just to sort of identify that as being slightly different than how we would approach state emergency stablization which happens immediately after the fire. so, restoration, rehabilitation, as we get into that, i think a lot of ways it's location, location, location. there are many areas around the country where getting in there immediately, as this is, you know, it's sort of a local stakeholder-driven need that i think we have here. there are some places we're getting in there, immediately getting work on the ground,

immediately getting trees replanted, is absolutelily makes the most sense to get it sort of back to a healthy state that is econolly supportive. there are other parts of the country where, quite frankly, we probably don't want to get in there immediately because the conditions that are going to really reed lead to successful restoration won't take place until later in the year and after we have rain, just a whole variety of different circumstances. ...

. >> so if we could work with the folks early in a clollaborative process but litigation on the back end really slows down the important critical work. >> it' awfully expensive too. >> yes. >> wrapping up, chief, as you know, the most recent forecast from the national interagency fire for montana, i just saw your chart, took a quick picture of it. it was sitting there for a moment. anyway, here we are in montana experiencing snow packs well above average. flooding in many parts across our state.

and as you mentioned to us in our briefing a few weeks ago, there's a lot of variables that go into that outlook. but it looks like we need to buckle up for it looks like to be another tough fire season. congress recently provided new authorities to the forest service, but much more needs to be done for the threat to wildfire. i look forward to get better support for some of these reductions in red tape so restoration projects can get done sooner. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. thank you ranking member and thank you both for being here. itially just associate myself with the comments that the chair made with respect to sexual harassment and addressing that issue in both of your agencies. miss jansen, i couldn't agree with you more. it's a cultural change around we have to be vigilant. and i look forward working with you and supporting you and make

sure we're constantly addressing this issue. let me talk about lake tahoe. lake tahoe ifor th nevada and california. and inow an is ue that we've talked about in the past. over 74% of the area around lake tahoe is public land managed by the forest service. and after decades of fire suppression, the tahoe basin overstocked forests are highly vulnerable to insect, disease and catastrophic wildfires. they lack the diversity and age structurand species distribution to support a healthy forest ecosystem and they're essential to the safety of tahoe's community and the health of the forest. the threat of a catastrophic wildfire, lake tahoe is a concern for the entire community and the state. so for an increasing outlook for an above normal wild land fire

potential in northwestern nerve ner -- nevada as we can see, what are they doing to protect this area? >> let me make one comment on wot. it is not a one day training and we're done. this is a starting point of a long journey. >> thank you. >> in regards to lake tahoe and many -- you know, it's an emblem of a community at high risk with high populations. and it is a good example of a community that is working across boundaries together. you know, i hate to say this, but it's working way up front of any fire and sometimes several years of working across boundaries on both getting the resiliency of the lands in better shape as you have suggested and the communities

prepared to have fire -- being fire adapted. and the tools added to the farm bill tools from 2012 to what was just recently passed in the omnibus are a great step forward for us to be able to move more swiftly, to get more done and to stabilize when the fire fix goes into affect, our operating environment so we can do the investments on the ground. additionally, the reforms we're doing ourselves internally will help us to get more work done. i'm proud of the increased 36% of the increase work across the lands. and that means with our interior, with our state, with our local partners. so the principles of what w call the national wild land fire cohesive strategy where we need to create the resilience landscape fire adapted communities and have an

affective risk base response to fire. and i know i have an invitation to -- or i want to get me out to lake tahoe and i've been there a couple years ago and it is a great example. you have some great leadership of working across country. >> thank you. we appreciate you being participants and t focus in that area. we really appreciate you being there. let me jump back to topic of conversation that senator cantwell talked about is haze. when there is fire going on in the northwest, it's not just addressing and impacting that state. if there's fires in california, we see the smoke and the haze in southern nevada or reno. and so it has an impact on the region. and for that reason, i'm curious what is it that you look to to

address the health benefits or the health affects when it comes to that haze and the issues affiliated with any type of a wildfire? and let me bring this up because i know that you have an office of environmental health that studies the events and impact on people's health. but my understanding is that is being defunded, is that correct? fro ere? >> offices of environmental health. >> i'm -- >> is that not true? >> sorry. i'm not familiar with that. >> okay. >> no. >> i can -- i can speak to a partnership that the greater parkland we entered into the center for disease control and they're helping us study both the fuel type of from prescribed fire and wildfire and the time of year and to not only show that the quantity of smoke is different as senator cantwell

expressed in his report, but the type of -- the particulate matter looking that closely at the particulate matter between wildfire smoke and prescribed fire smoke. we're really pleased we have such a solid partnership with the center for disease control. because that's going to really accelerate us having the public conversation about how we have smoke. >> thank you. and i know the department i was talking about is in interior. do you have any comments? >> yes. so i'm not familiar. and i'm happy to look more specifically into and give you a good response to that particular question about that office. i would just say that, you know, as we look sort of at where we're at now and sort of where we want to go in the future to start to deal with this issue, there's lots of intaerks -- interaction between the wild and fire community and airman je ma, epa and others. and essentially i think the shared vision here is that we're

much better off under a prescribed fire scenario where we control the circumstances and theolumes and the character of the smoke that's in the air as opposed to catastrophic uncontrolled wildfires where we have no control whatsoever. we're stuck with it. >> i agree. thank you. thank you both. >> thank you, senator. let me ask about the vegetation management provisions that we included in the omnibus. chief, can you -- you g me a -- just kinof a status report on the implementation of the provisions that we had included. i think we recognized that we're thinking about the physical integrity of transmission and distribution infrastructure.

this is key too to protect the security and reliability of our energy grid when we're talking about a wildfire. so give me a quick update here. >> certainly, tor.na have moved swiftly. we have given -- we've done a full analysis of these provisions and we've given really specific direction to our regions. so as you know, they'll be getting us our plans in by the end of this week. on the utility right away, the petition management, that's more opportunistic. so i've asked every one of our regional foresters describe how they're prepared to meet the response times that those utilities will require so that we can be timely in allowing the vegetation management projects to move forward. so it's basically direction to our region to be ready and show

us how they are prioritizing when those requests come in from the utilities and to work with them in advance to know what that workload is going to look like. >> okay. and then, mr. rupert, the folks at blm and forest service coordinating on this intement tation -- implementation effort? >> yes. excuse me. thank you. there's been very active, ongoing engagement, coordination coming, you know, looking and coming up with, you know, consistent approaches to this. blm as well come into the process and is very close to releasing an im informational memorandum which is a policy essentially reinforcing side boards, time lines and expectations for implementation. >> okay. good. good. there's been discussion already with regards to the unmanned aerial systems. how does doi and the office of

wild land fire coordinate with forest service in terms of the drawn program? do you both operate separately and is there some level of communication or coordination that goes on with these assets? >> well, sure. maybe i'll start. the interioruas drone operations aren't strictly wildfire. in fact, the majority of the drone missionshat are flown in interior. so surveys and inspections. and in the case of wildfire, though, we have a fleet. i think we're approaching 500 doi-owned drones. and we have several hundred certified operators. many of those operators are qualified then to operate on a

wild and fire incident. and so as, you know, the coordination that occurs with that wildfire focus is really similar in terms of establishing those, you know, interoperable standards that allow us to, you know, go into these incidents that we know we have certified, qualified operators that are capable of, you know, piloting these drones in that environment to support the incident response. and so in a lot of ways, it's very similar to how we coordinate, you know, all other assets in the wild and fire world. i think that's been one of the really successful parts of this drone implementation is that we really have taken that wild and fire community-wide sort of implementation standard interoperable approach. >> do we have any sse as to

the savings that we might be able to attain b using drones? obviously from a safety perspective, it's clear. but in terms of using traditional aircraft versus drones for some of the more traditional wildfire tasks, do we have a sense of what that cost savings might be? >> we don't have specific dollar figures, senator. but like any buildup investment, what we imagine, what we can get to as mr. rupert says and both a resource and of things, you know, the forest health detections that we do across this nation when we can get that to having drones instead of the aerial surveys, then it's -- then it's thenitude of tens that the potential savings is.

but we're in that innovative stage to how far we're going to be able to go replacing people with cameras. but we imagine it can be great. and we'rengomental work ourselves there. >> let me ask a little bit about that. i was up in south central alaska and i was struck by the amount of beetle kill that we're seeing up beyond the matsu valley up towards denali. it's an area that i hadn' really noticed the kill. obviously the peninsula had been decimated some years back. and unfortunately we're seeing some evidence that -- and this is done through the aerial surveillance. but we're seeing evidence that

the beetles may be back. it's my understanding that the spruce barbeetle haseady decimated over 6 million acres. 3 million acres. more than 30 million sprees trees on theeninsula alone. so, again, we pay very, very close, close attention to this because of the potential for increased fire threat, particularly down on the peninsula right now. but it's not just -- it's not just the peninsula. i was looking at my clips this morning and just in -- just in this morning's newspapers around the state, we had fe down in guis of all places in the tungus national forest. one up in telketna this morning. a small one. and then the first big fire up in interior off of rosy creek

road which is just up from the area where i grew up. so it's fire season for us. and i know that we're projected to have a normal year. but for us normal is often times a million acres. so this is something that we watch with great, great interest. what are the agencies doing to work together? again, not just within doi and forest service but working with the state as we're dealing with some of the beetle kill issues? and, again, this resurgence that we're seeing. whether it's down on the keni or moving into south central. >> yes. senator, the recent aerial detection survey in 2017 there was 27 million acres flown in alaska and over 840,000 acres

that was recorded forest damage. and, you're correct, it was in south central over 400,000 in this recent survey. largely in the susitna valley and that area as y described. it's acrossll lands. so we are working collectively. we have put together a spruce beetle working group, researched that group in alaska with the division of forestry and the alas can -- >> as i understand that task force was focused on the keni peninsula. are you expanding this to a broader area into the region? >> yes. that's my understanding. and there's a spruce beetle website stood up. and we've also awarded special technology development grant to

develop land methods for having a broader look both spatially and temporally at detecting both the past and the present disturbances across alaska. so this willp monitor the insects and disease activity on a larger scale. kind of let's get behind this. we are working in southeast alaska, the largest area. there's smaller pockets of spruce beetle activity. but the largest aa is in glacier bay national park. so our forest health protection program is collaborating with park staff about monitoring and traps this summer. so we're clearly working across boundaries in the park as well. >> well, as we all know -- and it's not just in alaska. we've got the beetle kill that has been raised by other colleagues. so, again, making sure that these forest management tools

that we provided you in the omnibus to really do more when it comes to whether it's thinning, prescribed burning, just every effort that we can do to reduce that fire risk. but also really working to address the management reforms that we all believe are critically important, as you know you do as well. we have one more vote and, thus, the absence of other colleagues here this morning. but if folks do have questions for the record, we will make sure that they come to your attention and would ask that you respond to their concerns as well. i do want to ask one more question. and this relates to the world there in the tongas.

you know my position on it. i've always said that i didn't think that the roadless road made any sense in a place in an area that's just made up of islands. 32 island communities. and so as we are looking to access within the tongas the big focus has been, of course, on the limitations that are provided by the roadless rule. you have a petition from the state of alaska that asks for that exemption from the roadless in the tongas. so last time you were here, we had a conversation about this and the forest service plans. so can you give me an update on the status of the state's petition and when forest service might act on that petition? >> thank you, senator.

absolutely i can. senator -- excuse me, secretary perdue and governor walker spoke just on friday, this friday, june 1st. and they agreed to pursue a state-specific roadless rule to address the concerns as swiftly as possible on the tongas national forest and the access for timber, energy development and many other forms of access on the tongas. so we are working cloels -- closely with the state t get aligned immediately we, the forest service, has identified funding and actually the resources and people and staffing and expertise to get started. and we're in close contact with the state and we'll be glad to keep you up-to-date. >> well, i appreciate that.

and perhaps what we need -- might want to do is schedule a meeting with yourself and the secretary if he is available to further discuss. i -- i -- i'm cognizant that with the state petition my good friend senator rich from idaho was one that led that in his state, and he's made clear to me that this is not an easy process. it is not a quick process. and it is not a cheap process. and so making sure that there is a good understanding as to what this process for basically moving forward with the state's petition is. how that is clearly outlined. it is -- it's certainly my hope that whichever -- whatever that process looks like, it does not

result in anything that's less than a full exemption from the roadless to the tongas. so i would like to be able to speak with both you and the secretary about that petition. but, again, understanding how we can move forward in a way that does acknowledge the reality of the situation that we face within the tongas. so i would look forward to more discussion on that. with that, i think as i'm looking through -- i don't -- maybe this question was asked when i was out on th vote. but have you -- have you

provided the status on the fire fighting use and effectiveness study? that was back in 2012. it's my understanding that the agency launched this use and effectiveness study. so five years ago. it's my understanding that we really haven't seen any information that's been released from that work, which, you know, that -- that doesn't make any sense. that's not acceptable. if we've requested it and five years later we still haven't seen that release, i don't -- again, i don't know if you have addressed this already. and if you have, i apologize. but can you just tell me where we are with that. >> certainly, senator. and, no, i have not addressed it yet. >> okay. >> as you know, that's a study to look over -- over a variety of different fire situations.

the use and effectiveness. are we using it. >> right. >> appropriately and how effective is retardant. this i a major investment. a retardant is a critical tool. but we want to know if we're using it correctly. and like any studies, i get frustrated as well. but it takes an amount of time and the variety of fires and different types of fires to have a reasonable study. and it was always intended to be five years of field data. so they are collecting that now into a report. and we will see a draft report in the coming months with the final report in 2019. >> final --ll, we i understand what you're saying about how we want it to be comprehensive. but i think we also recognize that we have -- we, the congress, have worked to provide

you with some resources and some tool that you've been asking for for a long time. >> right. >> but you acknowledge in your own statement that this is not a blank check to us. >> right. and so making sure that we' doing right by these reforms, we're doing right by these additional dollars that are coming your way, these additional resources, we want to be guided by things that are going to make some sense. and so, you know, one of the things that i hear is that when it comes to aircraft to achieve certainuppression objectives, that it's a somewhat random thing. well, what do we have over here. we pull this in. that's not cost efficient. >> right. >> that's not using our money smartly. so i would hope that you're trying to get this into alignment. >> yes. >> that we're not going to just blow through the resources that we have this year because we

have it and next year we promise to do it smarter because we're going to have the results of the study. if you have information that can help point you in a better direction w, i would hope that you're setting yourself up to do just that. >> yes, senator, we are. we actually have implemented last year -- the longer -- the longest study is ongoing. we look forward to those results. and i -- and getting preliminarily previoused here soon. but we also are -- have the tech knowledge now with our scientists -- technology now with our scientists to within a 12 hour turnaround have real time maps to our management teams where they can see the effectiveness of the prior burning -- the window of

response and was that effective. did we just burn through the retardant drops that we thought was going to be effective. so we're doing some real time learning as well as the longer term study. and with both of those we are making adjustments, and we will have more information and be glad to work with you on that. >> well, i would appreciate that. i think you heard similar concerns from both senator cantwell and senator widen on this. again, we see that, yes, these are extraordinarily important aspects. we want you to have aviation assets. but we also want to know that we're being smart with all of this. and, thus, the request for the study back in 2012 and, thus, the frustration. and actually if my math is correct, if we really did put this in place in 2012, we're beyond our five years now.

so -- >> yeah. the first field season i believe was in '13. >> okay. >> uh-huh. >> all right. >> yeah. >> hurry it up. >> okay. we will. >> all right. i have no further questions at this point in time. submissions, you will see them. and i know it's not a policy, but maybe we just pray for rain this summer. and we also pray for the safety of the men and women who are out there on the front lines. i think we all know that this is very dangerous. and we have lost far too many as they have been out there on the front lines. so hopefully it will be a safe season. with that, the committee stands adjourned.

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[ inaudible conversations ]. >> we take you live now to a conference on the budget for u.s. diplomacy and development programs. first we'll hear from madelyn albright who was secretary of state during the clinton administration. this is live coverage on c-span2. [ inaudible conversations ]

[ inaudible conversations ] [ inaudible conversations ] [ inaudible conversations ]. [ applause ] >> good morning. >> good morning. >> a little louder. good morning. >> good morning. >> that was great. well, welcome, everyone, to usglc's 2018 state leader summit.