read it on a summers evening you write like one the rizzo special place in hell for those that lead others astray say hi to hitler when you get there. that was a nice one. [inaudible conversations] >> good evening everyone. tonight we are pleased to welcome peter stark. and his book illuminates the time in george washington's life is often overlooked the years that made him the leader of our country as an adventure writer and resides in missoula

montana were not traveling he has appeared in the new yorker and the new york times among others. his works include a new york times bestseller and one the literary award that was adopted into a play for centerstage after the conversation we will have q&a and book signing will also be available on the back thank you for being tonight please join me to welcome peter stark. >> thank you. thank you for having me and c-span for being here and all of you for coming here tonight. it is great to see you all.

can everybody hear me? so what i will do is read three passages from this book and i will set each one into historical context and then afterwards we can have some questions and answers. >> i think we have propagated an image of george washington the last two and a half centuries it has gone done a great disservice to americans and to americans use and we cultivate this image of this great leader of sound judgment of false decision-making as if he was just full-blown as a great leader and to be seen as

unmanned god but remember george washington did not become commander-in-chief of the continental armory until he was 43 years old old so he had a long career before that. it was a checkered career in some ways. i want to start with a passage from the beginning of the book, the first chapter, little bit about george washington in general. >> george washington at 21 was a very different washington from what we know and hold sacred different from that stately commander in the continental army a selfless first president that unblemished father of the

country gazing off into posterity this is not the washington possess of superhuman virtue who given the chance to consolidate power and rule indefinitely over the just for nation willingly step down to return to work wildlife on his virginia plantation. rather this is the on washington but not the washington of the bedtime story. this washington is ambitious, temperamental, same damn thin-skinned petulant, awkward, demanding, stubborn annoying, and passionate. this washington has not yet learned to cultivate his image or contain his emotions. here instead is a man struggling to maturity with close friends.

this is the washington of emotional need and personal ambition and mistakes. many mistakes. everything about washington's life is askew to most people including his maturing during his younger years most people make mistakes many learn from them. but the difference with washington is the mistakes he made occurred in the arena that was expanded to regional and global with reaping those historical consequences the overly mature washington would be the continental army as he personally bears responsibility for inadvertent striking the spark that the tender that exploded into the french and indian war. he was accused of being a war

criminal and assassin and murderer and incompetent leader in negligence and an international embarrassment. the war he touched off a mass seven years and spread around the world to the first truly global war. what familiar with many americans, this war one much of the north american continent for the british and at the same time those revolutionary forces would mushroom into the american revolution against the same british. these early years of washington give us a picture at odds with his popular image. this poor and personal passage through the wilderness laid the groundwork for the great leader that washington would one day become.

so essentially before great leader he was not a great leader. [laughter] so he struggled with a difficult learning curve and he failed in a lot of ways but came through those mistakes through failures and that is why he truly is inspirational because not simply he was a great leader that he struggled and i think that is an important lesson for americans to know that here is this guy really struggling and i really find more human washington. so this book young washington focuses on george washington's early years mostly in his 20s basically from the time he is 21 through 26. then those five years i

realize i spent four years researching this book so i was keeping pace with him on a year-by-year basis with reach -- research and writing. so he is vulnerable during this period and with that remote stony face statue that we tend to know him as so these days especially we talk about a crisis of leadership or the world and i think that this george washington the struggling one we don't know much about could serve as a valuable lesson today. we don't really think of washington as ambitious he

seems not quite effortless but he was extremely ambitious and to put this in context, i like to think about his family background so his ancestral family for centuries first in england and virginia trying to get to the upper tier of aristocracy but remarkable consistency they had not gotten there in the washington males tended to mary wealthy widows that would rise in status with a lots of kids and then the wealth would disperse they would sink down in status and then they would marry another wealthy widow and go back to.

mom -- backup and then he followed the same pattern and then he met martha. . . . . a so in the early 15 hundreds who can tell me what's going on politically in england? somebody said henry the eighth. so there's period of henry the eighth who is having some issues with the catholic church trying to and all his marriage but the pope won't let him so he fought

to get rid of the church and dissolving the monasteries and as it happened, washington and his life had the lease on the inside track when they were off the monasteries and immediately vaulted washington from manager into a top-tier gentleman. he built a manner that is a living museum today, but he had 11 kids, his son have 15 kids. basil the manners and by this time a century later it is the 16 hundreds so what is happening in the 16 hundreds where they

have the kittens are struggling for their own identity. he graduated from oxford as a pastor and unfortunately, he got on the wrong side in the english civil war between the royalists and parliamentarians and the ancestral past o pastor washings called a malignant loyalist and he was exiled out into a remote

parish struggling to get along. so his children have fewer opportunities. one of his funds, i called sond john taylor in washington found a way out of the situation. he managed to get invested in a trading venture going to virginia and he got a share of the trading venture on the seaports of london and it was sort of second below the capta captain. they sailed to virginia across the atlantic and got to the potomac and lowered the tobacco and at this point it is only in the 1750s or the 1650s it is about 40 or 50 years after jamestown. tobacco is coming down as a big crop. it's like the cocaine of its e

era. extremely valuable, this drug to do the aristocrats of europe. so they had a load of tobacco up towards the seaports of london and they sailed out of the potomac river in january of 1657. so this ends up in a lawsuit in virginia and this is very primitive times in virginia. the magistrate as a wealthy plantation owner named pope and in the case attained the captan and john the sailor he takes a

shine to the young john the sailor and magistrate pope pays off the debt with a big package of beaver pelts and that is how primitive the economy was still. they were meeting at the exchange and they not only pay off the debt but also introduced john the sailor to his daughter, and of course what happens john the sailor marries and pope and they are so pleased with this arrangement but they get 7 acres of land. this kind of serendipitous turn of events. it was kind of a midland global

tobacco planter. i say that they are more like tobacco farmers. they don't have great holidays with marble hallways and thousands of acres and hundreds of slaves. they do have some service but it's a much smaller scale. so, george himself was born roughly 75 years after john the sailor arrived at. his first wife died young. when george was 11, his father died and at this point if he hadn't died when he was 11, and he had a closer relationship with his mother, he was quite distanced with his older brother whom he revered hadn't died in

his 20s of tuberculosis, i always feel george would have been a less ambitious character and he would have felt more anchored, more settled in the world. but he feels like a vase when he is describing. so when he is leaving, he leaves almost all of his plantation land to his older half-brother's and this leaves george, who has very little formal education not a way to make a living. so, his older half-brother suggests george go to see with the royal navy on a mission to south america and george's mother writes what do you think of this idea to see the age of 14. they will cut him and staple

them and treat him like a slave or even worse like a dog that's what they say no way. we end up with george, not at the scene of aslan. and as 14 or 15 he took up his father is surveying instrumentss and taught himself how to survey the. he taught himself to survey. his older half-brother had married into the very wealthy fairfax family. and fairfax virginia and from all over the. after centuries earlier, the king of england had given the family or their ancestors, fairfax and sisters 5 million acres of virginia land. we have like a half acre of lawn so if you think of

5 million acres it would be 90 miles by 90 miles and they were selling off some of the frontierland on the edge and sending up a big surveillance party and learned how to survey in a formal way and got some experience in these kind of difficult conditions. by the age of 18, george has gone into surveying by himself and set himself up in is this surveying the land and making good money buying his own frontierland but he is still ambitious to climb in the aristocracy so by age 21, he take a job as a part-time officer in the virginia military kind of like a national guard

and at this point, the british governor of virginia needed someone to deliver a message over the activations into the wilderness to the french and george sabine here. he had some frontier experience and so hin this and he chose hir this mission. he sent into the wilderness of 21-years-old and we have to remember this is not put the state of ohio is today. this is a much larger area which is indiana, ohio, kentucky, tennessee, west virginia, a huge area basically a region the size of france a wilderness to the

tribes that have been living and hunting there for centuries. so the message that he sent to the french commandant who was at a forward and back in the ohio wilderness was essentially stay out all these lands belong to king george. so we all know the long history between england and france and europe, 700 years or however long it was in the end permit and years of peace at this point there's a few years between the two countries. the.

they were both laying claim to it, both france and britain. as of october the 53, the flat plantation land travels at horseback with wilderness guide that knew what he was doing and civil servants through the rolling piedmont through the appellations and get hammered by winter storms, snow storms. it's a struggle. it's cold if you've ever camped in a winter snow you know it isn't a very pleasant thing. george had never been in that kind of condition before. he'd been in a plantation. so after hundreds of miles they

get back to a french post in the wilderness with a very formal french officer and remember he is a 21-year-old neophyte with a message. through more snow and cold. he's a very distinguished elderly gentleman in th the chuh calls him elderly in his early 50s as it turned out with a whole different standard of age in those days.

he reads the governor's letter and over the course of the next couple of days he writes a response so george takes the letter and sets out as quickly as he can and the servants set out and get slammed by winter again. it gets so cold and snowy they cannot find forage and the streams are frozen so they can't find water to drink so george and christopher leave the horses behind and they set off on their

own. at one point george suggests let's take the short cut through the woods. they kind of get into a mess that way but they go on and on and at one point they think they are being chased by indians. they go from 36 or 48 hours straight of running on this pursuit by indians who they think are tracking them through the snow and in the course of this they come to a big river that we know now as the allegheny river and they think it will be frozen because it has been so bitterly cold, but when they get there, there is ice along the shores of the center is open and running very swiftly. so he says we've got to get to

the other side and build a raft. because they've left their horses behind and good equipment behind, they only have one hatchet and they spend all day chopping down trees with this one hatchet and you can see them chopping away. they finally finish right at dusk so that is where the second passage picks up. >> after laboring the entire day with a finish at just after sunset. they swallow their backpacks on board and slither off into the river. they jumped on board grabbing the setting goals they have crafted along with them standing on the raft they could push against the bottom of the river

propelling the raft forward through the water. they pushed into the broad allegheny in the twilight. the southern tower of the current seized the raft jerking it downstream. the flows of ice pressed against them waged between the moving slow it jostled and bumped, driven underwater by the force of the current of the floating ice threatening to capsize. we expected every moment for it to sink in for ourselves to perish, washington recorded in his journal. determined to save himself and the important mission, washington shoved his poll to the river bottom and leaned on it with his powerful six-foot frame to study the raft. the strength and horsemanship that distinguished him in the te virginia plantation meant nothing here. the river' is powerful crenshaw to the raft into the full while

washington clung on to with suddenly snapping it forward like an arm of a catapult. the force flow in washington into the deep swirling water. he admitted a reflexive gas as he was immersed in a splash among the ice flows arms reaching out. the human body can survive only a few minutes in water just above the freezing point before coming to hypothermia. dangerously low body temperatures. one reflexively hyperventilates into the heart rate jumps as the water chills sensor buried deep in this and. the body preserves its vital functions by closing capillaries and fingers and limbs sending blood to the court to the warm green, heart and lungs. fingers quickly stiffened and arms and legs, responding only clumsily to commands.

thinking becomes confused as the temperature drops below 95 degrees and brain enzymes slowdown. at a quarte quarter to temperat, hypothermia victim in the frigid water becomes unconscious and drowns or long before then, the current could sleep in downstream pulling him beneath the flow trapping him underwater under the grinding ice trying to surface for air hitting the underside of the flow frantically seeking an opening until finally his breath expir expires. tossed overboard, washington joins his feet sinking to the bottom. the water was too deep for him to touch the river bed. he reached with his hands seizing a hold of one of the raft. he pulled himself up gripping the frigid water onto the wallowing platform.

they took up again and tried to shove the clumsy raft. the force of the current swept them straight down the river channel surrounded by the flows. trapped in the currenattractingd floating ice, they couldn't propel themselves to the safety of either sure. an island appeared in the twilight. the river swept the raft towards it and grabbing their backpacks, they abandoned the raft and clambered onto the island. the cold pushed him as the night began to fall. they were not saved. without a fire they could easily perish overnight at hypothermia especially washington from his clothing soaked through, his body already badly chilled. starting a fire at night on the snow-covered island striking with fingers almost unbendable

of coldness is a daunting painful exacting task. washington was probably too chilled, slow and clumsy to perform it and perhaps did not possess as much fire starting skills as his partner. the task workflow and he would squat barehanded and the snow to strike the spark and ignite the tender and feed tiny sticks into the weak flame. the cold was so extremely severe that mr. guest at all of his fingers and some of his toes frozen recorded washington. washington had again underestimated his strength and attempting to shove the raft against the curb and and moving ice and had underestimated the power of nature. i'm going to skip ahead quite a lot for this third passage.

although from that one when i think about it having spent quite a bit of time among the ice flows and canoes on the rivers and lakes just how close we came to losing what would be the founder of the country right in that moment that was a very narrow escape. he had many narrow escapes that was quite a profound one. so, washington gets all the way back over the appellations to the virginia colony's capital at williamsburg which some of you have probably been to now ha asa great living museum where there is quite a large governor's palace. he reads the letter from the french commandant and very politely says i would like to maintain peace but as to your

request to leave, i don't think so. so this 60-year-old scottish merchant whose jowls are no doubt the shaking with rage, washington is outraged also and this is where the trouble begins the indignant governor dispatches him back into the wilderness at the head of a small military party with a firm message to the french to leave. the governor cautioned he wants washington to not be the aggressor and to be sure to be cautious. washington does exactly the opposite. so, in essence, he ambushed a small party of french in the wilderness as it turns out they were having breakfast and they

claimed later to be the french diplomatic party trying to deliver a message to the governor. the most recent evidence uncovered in the french archives the testimony of an eyewitness that indicates washington himself fired the first shot and of the events are quite hazy in this incident but that is the latest evidence. his men opened fire with follies on the glenn and some are sleeping, some are having breakfast and some the result was disaster. the french got slaughtered, the survivors were taken prisoner, the french commanding officer was wounded and as he was wounded in the glen, there was an indian chief with washington

known as the half king who wind up behind and they took his hatchet and smashed it down on his skull, splitting it open, pulled out his brains, squished him through his fingers and basically murdered but i. you can imagine this did not sit well with the french. and you can imagine a prudent leader at this point would have hesitated and said maybe i should regroup. this didn't go exactly as planned, and thinking what to do next but not young george washington in his eagerness and ambition. he keeps going forward and he's

almost cocky in his attitude after this battle, this skirmish and he writes to his brother after the battle and says i heard bullets whistling, and believe me there is something charming and the sound. sometime later it was published in england and the king of england responded well, if you heard many, he wouldn't say so. and washington rights to the governor after the skirmish of the french but if no more resistance than this, i will drive them back to montréal. well, soon thereafter, turns out the french have unleashed a party from their forte is many hundreds of french soldiers and indian warriors and they are coming towards washington and his small group.

washington has built this kind of ramshackle ford said she is proud of writing to the governor he can withstand the attack of 500 men and it was kind of like doing it on. well, they did and washington was expecting them to come across the open field as on the battlefields of europe and evenn cleared up the brush around the fort creating what he called a charming field for an encounter. the indians didn't exactly come marching across the open field in battle formation of a washington had hoped, but they went screaming across the pastor and the ultimate towards the fort at a hill in the middle of this big open meadow almost like a swamp. the indians ran up to this table

and they had an easy musket shot, complete disaster for washington. his name gets slaughtered and they are laying on these trenches filled with rainwater and blood and he ends up having to surrender. it was a huge humiliation and these were the events that would ignite the french and indian war. he was kept on as an officer which could then be circumstances was surprising but one of this amazing draperies he was fearless and no one ever questioned his bravery. he was willing to take on a huge responsibility at a younger age. by the time he was 23, he had a

thousand men over the virginia regiment in the war that had started the. washington's job in this war was to protect for the frontier of. so it was 350 miles long but i compare it today to witness the afghanistan pakistabecause thea. very rugged, heavily wooded in parts of places to hide and indigenous people who are very good warriors and the other way around. ..

>> or those who ranked higher than and he was or thought they should be or criticism that appeared all of his troops and if you quit now with that reputation and several times to go back and forth over the soul. and he deeply coveted the commission that procedures commission the commission the governor of virginia as king

george himself. this was a real problem for george and one day he was at his post on the virginia frontier a guy named captain bag for the. and he is the captain who is ranked technically lower than the colonel however he has the teams commission so he thinks he is above washington and that just drives washington increasing and then goes to great length so the third and final passage with this

particular. and one of his journey to washington remained in a restless exile the 34-year-old captain and the young colonel and the dedicated to protect those frontier settlers and then confine just off the loan street with my thunder jury gray skies where was the

captain when he trenched through the frozen wilderness to deliver the message to the french commandant? so dad were the was back in maryland attending to his businesses. and as a mere captain finally it became insufferable and on january 14 he wrote to governor i am determined to resign a commission rather than submit to the command of a person who doesn't have such a superlative merit to balance the inequality of frank. george washington convoluted writing and a lot of that has to do with i am feeling underappreciated. instead of quitting washington suggested a solution that could quell his restlessness to take action he would personally ride north to boston to meet with the general who was in charge of

all british forces in the colonies he would petition governor shirley to rank him above the captain the governor granted permission in washington about the february accompanied by two service and subordinate officers with the journey on horseback of over 1000 miles but he hoped to determine his fate that he had to leave behind with the comanche had with that responsibility for guarding the frontier. action that indians were not across the mountains would prove false so washington goes to first to philadelphia then to new york at the very tip of

manhattan island these days with a friend named beverly robinson and beverly's brother is speaker. beverly robinson with a woman of high standing so he was granted another huge chunk of our loyal man -- royal landgrab so susanna was part of that family and it happened that she had a younger sister polly who is 26 years old and was an eligible area 51000 acres.

george washington always had an eye for land and the ladies. so george washington in new york on his way to boston he takes polly and susanna out on the town so there is broadway it is on third street but what is happening in new york is called the microcosm and it is a model of roman temple and they're all source of dancing figures in fruit players -- with players and these figures dance around and move so

people were really impressed with this technology. so polly and susanna liked it so much that washington took him there twice but no spark was struck between polly and washington so he went ahead to boston and met with governor shirley and washington really loved fine clothes so he bought some nice clothes with fancy gloves what is peculiar about him he has a weakness for silverlake. he would always buy silver lace in boston.

he also gambled. and he lost a bunch of many so then he learned not to gamble that eventually governor shirt --dash governor shirley said okay you can be above captain dag were the so he arrives back and i should say that the other peculiar thing about washington silver lace that never did get the new command almost the first thing he does designs and officer's uniform he really likes fancy officer uniforms this is where the silver lace comes in so now writes back from boston to the virginia frontier but far more

serious problems have just begun and now that he returns the responsibility that was his all along to protect those settlers from massacre now it is upon the road fast to winchester in the shenandoah valley and that these frontier settlers were threatened up and down the valley formally faith they had abandoned the homestead and fled to the town of winchester itself nobody knew if the indians would attack winchester. washington desperately try to recruit more men only 31 men men under his command at winchester but the remainder were for coming aware of the bible dag were the long dash of his rifle d3 dagworthy so

he sent a rally to winchester only 15 men showed up all my ideal hopes to raise a number of men to vanish into nothing. so the inhabitants of this county but their perverseness. washington and would learn much and waiting for opportunities to avoid major battles that would come to fruition in the distant future where he served as commander-in-chief of a far larger body of troops but things only got worse along the frontier and panic spread

the residence anticipated a full-scale attack any moment townspeople assisted by soldiers at washington's order chop down bushes and trees to prevent the ambush from hiding so that this point washington does not know whether to keep all the few men that he has been winchester or scatter them out in the area. he does a very smart thing he calls his subordinate officers into a meeting and he solicited everybody's opinion what to do and listened very carefully and he deliberated. this is one of the first instances of washington doing this really consulting his subordinates to listen and

deliver it on -- deliberate the process. this would serve him very well in the years ahead when he does become president and commander-in-chief that is something he became known for. it started right here. and likewise this virginia frontier talking about just ask and organization he was very conscientious administrator and organizer. he learned a lot. but still the frontier deteriorated after two and a half years of hard work hiding or political maneuvering he had a command of the virginia regiment but after two weeks of achieving this he found himself in the impossible situation underequipped against his foes surrounded by mass panic awash in a reign of

terror. scalped bodies lay outside burning farmhouses the horses were struck full of arrows and the men's brains beaten out and sticking out of their schools and then to be embedded in their torso. in these moments of crisis surrounded by grieving frontier families and settlers begging him to protect them young washington began to move beyond his self-absorption and session with ray and reputation with the sympathy for the people suffering me the first step toward selflessness and sacrifice for which one day he would become legendary. thank you. [applause]

so now we can have question and answers whatever you want to do. >> c describe the perils like that physiological response to that, so what were your other works to influence? >> yes. that's a good question and is very relevant in this situation. this isn't from the point of view from a presidential biographer or historian i came at it from the wilderness angle and i write about adventure in the wilderness and how the wilderness really

affects the human psyche so i stumbled across this story of washington has a young man in the wilderness of the ohio valley and i became fascinated how he responded to his wilderness situation. so about the adventures i have had or other people or the physiology and psychology. so this is what i try to bring to bear of what it's like to be in the wilderness i have been there a lot and i have been through a lot of these experiences so i want to bring that to the book i wanted people to understand how difficult this was and what he

went through as a young man and how remarkable he did despite all of his mistakes. and at the same time i wanted it to be very accurate and i read lots and lots of his letters to absorb myself in his life from that era that i feel that research i brought to bear. >> so talk about leadership what makes a good leader? so it seems like it is a continuation of that. >> yes. and to do a lot in this expedition right after lewis

and clark with different personalities of leaders with a difficult wilderness situation and how they responded differently. so i was trying to build on that in this washington book as well to really examine how he responded in these difficult wilderness situation, military situation with these indians all around. >> could you read a letter to the journalist to see how that changed his focus with these ambitions and how it changed with experience and age? >> of course it doesn't happen all at once but you can see

the changes in certain moments and some he takes tremendous empathy to the settlers who were getting slaughtered. and he became guarded as he got older and here he is still relatively unguarded and earn those frontier settlers and then another moment is pivotal moments but they are getting at to help him move along that continuing with the more expansive worldview. and at one point he survives this incredible battle when

the british did settle in at 2000 with people into the ohio wilderness and of course the british general was slaughtered by the indians they cannot see if they are hiding behind trees and then they go into mass panic basically and most of them died. and washington is the last man standing of these officers in this group and he is very brave to help carry general braddock off the battlefield but after this incredible massacre washington discovers he has full one -- four bullet holes through his coat and his hat rushes to his brother and said providence was protecting

him. you can see that washington starts to feel he has a larger role in the world rather than making a name for himself he's been so fixated on making a name but then another key moment is when the british finally do drive the french out of the wilderness washington immediately leaves the wilderness and he marries martha within weeks. and that immediately brings him to the top of the virginia aristocracy and bring financial security with a lot of slaves and that is so

strange to think of that as well and so that gave him some financial security and the status socially to be top rank and that's cause him to relax a little bit to make a name for himself but even more importantly with pure speculation on my part because he doesn't talk about it directly but i think martha gave him a sense of emotional security and reassurance he did not have previously that when he was in his early 20s thrashing to the wilderness it is like martha settled him down. even though he was in love with his best friend's wife, eventually he did mary martha

and had a warm and close relationship and she was warm and supportive but we will never really know because martha burned all of their correspondence after he died so it is like detective work to pcs things together. >> thank you so much i have enjoyed this evening with you all. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> within china the government keeps all kinds of information on people personal financial information. potentially healthcare information if a chinese company had access to millions of americans health records or banking records then that information could be used example for espionage purposes if they know who works in the state department or who owes a lot of money to the bank or who has four kids to go to college maybe that person is a better target them at the thought that national security leaders have been putting out there is that any time a

chinese investor with a link to the chinese government has afoot in the supply chain to build artificial intelligence or robotics of the things that really power the military and the government if the chinese government has insight into that technology then not only could they plant and espionage about to monitor american communications but also to adopt the technology themselves to give them a military edge or economic edge in the global marketplace >> active is all about the ways not just filing lawsuits

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♪ ♪ what do you notice? it is funny. what else? it doesn't tell you not to smoke we all know smoking is

bad for you when i first saw this i came across this not because of any serious research but driving with my kids one summer in 2016 and i could see them like smoking everybody uses smoking but now nobody does in my 11-year-old said smoking is really bad but is just like that cat video will and i said what cat video? like i'm the only person who is never seen that video so then research that on youtube and had millions of use and it works my son will never smoke because he cares about the pet smoke york hat can get cancer

to that is what kids care about so it sounds silly but so there is lots of evidence behind this campaign that was put together with that psychological profile so how do kids think and make decisions? and then they hired a big ad agency and from madison avenue to create something that is i hit the reason why it works is it is appealing and doesn't make poking cool but saw that the same way the tobacco companies sold to joe camel.

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details her efforts to provide scientific evidence that children in michigan were being exposed to lead poisoning through the water supply. she's interviewed by democratic senator gary peters of michigan. "after words" is a weekly program with relevant guest hosts interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest works. >> host: doctor hanna-attisha, it's great to be with you to discuss a book that's been a big issue, certainly a catastrophic situation.

the