suddenly realized my god he's still president. it's like watching groundhog day as a political film and it's coming back again and again and again. that is a big part of why we have an extraordinary level of anger. ..

>> and then to record all the questions if you have a question after the program with the microphone to come to you now let's give joe a warm welcome. [applause] >> thank you all so much for being here and to have me back from a third time and for many of you it is your third time to hear me give a book talk. [laughter] i see many familiar faces on the hot summer afternoon and looking forward to visit with you and think -- thanks to my mother and father-in-law's for the wine and beer to turn this

event into a book party thank you very much. so this is a fun book for me to talk about. this is the book based on the book with the political culture and then what i thought about for a long time in the first time i read "to kill a mockingbird" and how my life was transformed i was sure that i read it in middle school or early high school but i cannot say exactly when. i grew up in the small town like macon alabama.

and then i come back to this looking graduate school. with works of political history with the 30s or 80s and then where the south goes from the segregated. and that is the politics in the history of that. that said my brother who was two years older than me, he passed away but he was a fascinating character with all these quirky interests. with benson and hedges menthol cigarettes. and never missed an episode of days of our lives in a year straight. [laughter] he love belinda carlisle from the go-go's.

and he loved to kill a mockingbird. he would say you have to read that again it was such a great book and i would say but to kill a mockingbird is a child book but finally i watched the movie and it is destiny -- fascinating with this cultural phenomenon published in 1960 made to a movie 1962. gregory peck wins the oscar 1963 and then it just stayed on the reading list my daughter in eighth grade read that this year around the world kids are assigned "to

kill a mockingbird". why? always in eighth or ninth grade? it is the primer for middle school children to think about the history one of the first time to think of racial injustice and to think of atticus finch as touchtone decency that are critical values for the multiracial democratic society that we all grew up in and live in. so that's why the book is taught so well and continues to be read and i do love "to kill a mockingbird" and atticus finch. but i have always had some problems with atticus finch. with the mythology of him.

so always wanting to write about the book but it was hard to do because you just have the book itself in the handful of things that harper lee said and the promotion that she did for the movie. the last time harper lee spoke on the record to anybody was march 1964. so to write about this novel and character so that changed in the summer of 2015 because this other novel. [applause] was published and that was the character of atticus but the great revelation of that was atticus finch was not the idealistic father with the

downtrodden. but that 70-year-old arthritic down in alabama 1957 and to be racist and reactionary so the best thing you have not read of "go set a watchman" so what is the adult scout 26 years old back to her hometown and realizes her beloved father who would not hurt a ground school oral one -- squirrel has fall into the small town racist reactionary so what happens over the course of that novel is she has these important conversations with the men in her life and ultimately with atticus

himself and tuesday he has to change and she is very worked up and emotional with this call voice of reason with the principal conservative position. and that book when it came out in 2015 focused not that adequate one -- atticus finch was a recent but in 1957 that one of the market for them things to remember about "go set a watchman" but that is set in the 50s "to kill a mockingbird" in the 30s. but "go set a watchman" she wrote that first she wrote that after she received a gift from her friend in christmas and 56 that allowed her to

quit her job as the airline reservation is to commit fully to writing the extended piece of fiction and "go set a watchman" was the first novel that she wrote. and those that we have access to and in the archives of harpercollins that we know now the relationship between those two novels it isn't like harper lee wrote a version as a rhesus reactionary figure and then to make him idealistic that is not what she did. but "go set a watchman" her agent was going to publishing houses and it was not

selling. and then they would pass on the novel she starts to write the childhood of the characters that she was writing about in "go set a watchman" in the material flowing out of her typewriter and where she really found her voice. and her agent is loving it and we will sell this childhood this has the juice and they did so. she revises it for two half years and then it becomes a literary phenomenon. so it is important to understand the relationship between those novels and from those archives of the harpercollins files that harper the always imagined them to parts of the same

story that the characters in the 1930s would evolve into the characters of the 1950s. so we see atticus finch through the eyes of scouts but she is struggling to reconcile or come to grips with her father in 17 so when that book came out my response to that was whatever you think about it there were flaws because publishing houses were passing there isn't a lot of story to it of course it is the first novel and it is difficult to write. it is very hard not surprising the first novel would not be successful. so as a work of fiction it is

fascinating as a historical document to give us insight what harper lee was concerned about and try to capture in her fiction when she first set down to write this book and that set me on a search with these two different versions of atticus finch. so to block and tackle of this historical enterprise so now he started off this way then becomes something else and what i set out to do is explain that but the first place was to try to make of harper the father because in the handful of things that she talks about when she talks on

the record to reporters how her father was the inspiration for the character of atticus. not exactly but inspired that character so knowing very little about him a small-town lawyer of the state legislator in the 1920s and 30s but when nobody paid to also the owner and editor of the journal of the newspaper 1929 to 47 and those that were available on the state archives and then there is no

guarantee a small-town newspaper would have an editorial page. and the town that we grew up in the macon beacon and then when i was growing up and then with those obituaries on the front page. and then that is the small-town paper i grew up with. so i kind of expect that for the monroe journal so why would i have started march 1933? what happens? >> roosevelt's inauguration be goldstar to that person. so the last person he was inaugurated in march?

and to see if they said anything about the inauguration and then to hit a gold mine. but you have active and ambitious editorial page. and with the evolution of the new deal and by the late 30s with religious rights in germany from 1938 in the rise of fascism in japan and that the highest grade he ever completed was eighth grade to grow up very poor in the panhandle of florida and his father was a homesteader.

but was lincoln asked in his habits of education a 4h leader and to seriously take the operator of a free press and a democratic society to make sure the leaders were informed almost like 19th century pros with the civic sermon it was fascinating to read and so with those editorials and those newspapers i would charge them out and what i realize with those historical sources is that are pretty was inspired to write the idea atticus in "to kill a mockingbird" you

see that in the idealism from the editorial page when in the 1930s zero speaking up from political demagoguery. that they could not stand who we long. and concentrating all the power to destroy the enemies and harmful to the public interest. and to write against lynching and with the rule of law and with that idealistic figure would come through mythology to see how they evolve over time and lose to mojo's

changes and then by the 1930s and during the war years and by the late 1930s and then to stand labor union with that democratic party politics and then begin to see that national civil rights organization having influence over franklin roosevelt. and then to be tracked by the southern segregationist and you can see to defend the states rights position and how

he articulate all of those races reactionary positions and help he defends and "go set a watchman". and those versions that we get but what is very important to track how she is writing the 50s and rice to make those narrative traces that she is making. it depends on how she has changed the story. telling through the eyes of scouts and it is important to leave the evolution of this character from the politics in the development from the late

1950s and to understand the precise chronology with the politics of massive resistance in a state like alabama. and then with the brown decision but it was really ramping up from 1957, 58, 59. and leaving public office for the first time. and with the right politics this is the context in which harper lee is writing her fiction and how that might have affected the way this character of atticus is

evolving. and to save more in the book how this changes with adaptation with its own creative process adapting the novel to the screen. and that adaptation of the novel with the full implications and then certainly and then the remarkable transformation that takes with this character of those origin that harper the first right and then gregory peck with his summation to the jury as a dignified handsome face of mid- 20th century liberalism.

so i will read a brief package and then to befall around this delicious irony in american history. and then gregory pack is nominated for times but he never won. but he wins the oscar to portray atticus bench. but also for pack and harper the in the character. april 1963 in birmingham alabama martin luther king is arrested and from the jail

that not right letter to birmingham jail and if there is any production more widely read and it would be an okay from the birmingham jail. it is a famous packet on -- passage to talk about white moderate what is atticus and jeff not a white moderate? and then almost comes to the conclusion it isn't the counselors or the klansman but the biggest stumbling block with the african-american struggle and is a remarkable statement and one of those from birmingham jail but what

is interesting about that but to contextualize mlk larger work and ministry that letter becomes chapter three of the book that mlk publishes why we can't wait and in chapter number two came make a defense of nonviolence. by many people in the black community that feels nonviolence is not working and came desperately tries to defend that. i simply there is something in the american a post that response the strength of moral force. something that responds to the

strength of moral force. how many years responding to talk about the popularity of the novel in the movie to kill a mockingbird? and atticus finish who stands against bench mob who gets tom robinson from the jail. that in king's writing with a condemnation of the white moderate and also the police and the strength of moral force. that is what they were trying to conjure to create the character so to have a quote

where he talks about the violence in birmingham and coming to pass one side should not resort to it and the other to be mobilized by confusion and disunity and uncertainty. the disunited white south is the size from harper lee and her people were on that eventually would be read and celebrated around the world as the expression of universal values tolerance and understanding to be confused and uncertain the first at writing a novel to reconcile with the hypocrisy and injustice that they had to eagerly abided all while

defending from the condescension but that process with a simple narrative fire by love and hope for his children at a time said in that story atticus rose to the occasion for the moment that it matters. of course mockingbird does not tell us that we see this other side of atticus only and the children do. and we know now not only atticus mockingbird but that harper the new that as well everything that they discover

that atticus has those beliefs. for his willingness to represent the status quo. and all love the population with that child was reciprocal love and devotion across the line like elaborate act for the white sword the guilt for the racial injustice. she knew all of the things and the answer, not really the whole answer some version is that the end of the specs and you should buy it and figure it out. that's all i have to say.

[laughter] [applause] >> we do have questions and raise your hand if you can get on tv i will into your question but do not be intimidated. the lighting is so bad i cannot see you anyway. [laughter] >> i am an english teacher and graduate dividend in english and to analyze literature. historical context has coming in and out of fashion. so i and interested in the line between literary critic

and historian and the methodologies for both history and literature. did you find the lines were blurred fictional characters? . . . .

deeply and historically about the context in which harper lee was rising because as a historian that is central to our understanding that whatever we write whether it is fiction or nonfiction, we are shaped by the times in which we are writing and there is a fundamental insight that's why i try to be very precise about the period in which she's writing and what is going on that might have shaped the kind of choices she's maki making. >> great talk that you've given about the two books. when will the next th e-books be written? >> probably buy you in the future. how does that happen where

everybody learns from these tax >> i wish i had the answer to that i would get to writing right away. the question is -- [inaudible] >> i don't know, that is a good question. in my next book one of the things that's great about being a historian as i'm good about things that have already happened. stuff that hasn't happened yet i don't have much to say. there are limits we can draw from the studies of history but what i find as a teacher in history is a.

when you think of it in those terms it is almost overwhelming to work historians need to do a. it is shaped by the previous understanding that our law based on outright lies. there is still so much work to be done in a more meaningful way. >> any other questions?

did you have any time to walk through the museums and what did you think of them? >> i spent the afternoon at the museums and i think they are wonderful institutions that will have a meaningful impact on our understanding of our state history and they are thoughtfully done beautiful buildings. there's something that everyone in the state of mississippi can be extremely proud of and everybody in the state of mississippi needs to go to. i thought they did a wonderful job of marrying the two. first my reaction was why do you need to museums, why can't we just have one in the mississippi history because it is all a part of the history but there's this

whole story about how that happened and that totally makes sense but when you go to it, you see that there are professional archivists and historians and scholars on public history that have been incredibly thoughtful of telling a very inclusive powerful story. for the civil rights era to the broad area i think we've got to make it clear to everybody you've got to go to both sides. you can't understand the story unless you understand that longer mississippi story so i am just enormously proud having those museums and hope that people will go see them multiple

any times. >> question back there. >> a question about harper lee did you gain any insight into that? >> i think the story that has often been told which is a good place to start is that it was the phenomenal success would have been daunting to any novelist how do you come up with a follow-up for a book that is selling in a million and all of a sudden is being hailed as an instant american classic so the pressure of death was daunting to her that one of the things i also found in the book is that i

make an argument in the book. she doesn't want to jinx it. she was trying to go back to the work that novel in a lot of what she's talking about in those interviews deal with the same theme that the novel was dealing with and in some cases she repeats the direct lines and it's really interesting to. so there are some thoughts on why that would have been difficult for her to do because i think it would have been enormously difficult to go back

to try to rework the watchmen but at least there is some evidence to suggest that. any other questions? one more from the plant. [laughter] >> what exactly does that mean? >> this is a part of the book in which i talk about the nuances of the resistance politics in the 1950s. an argument that i am making is that people did not win the citizens councils were founded the people who founded the council said look, we are the decent folks in the town we owned businesses and we are the lawyers and the doctors.

we are different from dr. who club clan -- the ku klux klan and we are going to keep segregation but in a nonviolent and peaceful way. it wasn't the citizens council keeping down the hotheads. the folks are either going along for the ride or they are speaking into a silence where they keep their heads down and don't say anything and so for

that period from the late 50s to the early 60s this was mississippi the madhouse then, that is one of the journalists who talked about it, mississippi the society that was written about in 1964 that was happening in alabama and georgia, it was happening across the deep south. so that's what i'm talking about. thank you so much for coming out. this has been a lot of fun. [applause] we recently visited capitol hill to ask members of congress what they are reading this summer. >> first of all i just finished a book, like just last week that was very enjoyable. it's called deadweight cub crossing of the lusitania which

is one of the books that led to the united states getting involved in world war i but it was fascinating. i like the writing and i've read one of the books previously about the chicago world fair that i thought was one of the best reads. i'm not a big fiction fan. i like nonfiction. i like his style of writing and i have enjoyed this and i've enjoyed finishing this. i started another but that's the general versus president talking about general douglas macarthur and president harry truman. when they were in world war ii with the possibility of a nuclear war, so i just started that just this past week i'm excited to read it as well. >> are there any books that you recommend to your fellow members of congress or any books that you would turn to?

>> my favorite is great expectations. i think i read it three times and know all about it so it is one of my personal favorites. but as i mentioned before, devil in the white city is a fascinating read and i enjoyed it quite a bit. >> we want to know what you are reading. send us your list on twitter at booktv were instead graham it's different because it is making capital goods, things used by other industries as opposed to the consumer products. and america depends on it. the key is the railroad system.

they need rails and that is what this system grows upon. but also eventually got the machinery armaments, the naval power, even for civil war, the great battle of armor. it's economically important when you think of the eiffel tower because the greatest symbol of the new age and i think many countries including the united states come to believe that you can have kind of full sovereignty as a nation. carnegie and eventually by the

morgans, combines and so it is symbolic technically and economically to the new nation and the scale of these places. >> one thing that is eye opening for me as we heard about the crystal palace world affairs but i haven't realized what was the main purpose to introduce people to the machinery and manufacturing. >> it is a set piece in the book that you can't resist it in 66 and they celebrate the anniversary of the declaration of independence, there is a big kind of world affairs kind of thing, the centennial exhibiti exhibition. the centerpiece is a building of machinery with a gigantic steam engine which then runs shafts

and belts and pulleys that run this gigantic room of machinery and they open the fair when president grant and the emperor of brazil who happened to be around at the moment so the two of them turn these things out in this room is brought to light so it is an odd way to celebrate the declaration of independence that has nothing to do with the declaration of independence except the kind of notion of national greatness, where did the national greatness pentagon has been transformed over the years. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> now the person you all came to see. [cheering]