i love minor league baseball and this kind stories go on with what i'm looking for. definitely to go through this book. .. .. >> good evening. my name is paul and director of the public programs as the new york public library. as you know, my goal is to make the institution levitate and when successful make it dance. pleased to have seymour hersh

back. he was here two years ago in may 2016. after that visit he discovered the archives here and changed the course of his memoir. as i'm also grateful for the continued generosity of celeste and adam. tonight it's closing night from the light from the new york public library and it's been quite a season. i would like to mark this occasion by thanking the new york public library team. it takes a village. with gratitude i like to think a number of people.

as well as the curators have shown our guests things of great beauty and relevance before they will inspire them further. i would also like to thank the guards at the library, as well as our wonderful a/v team. tonight i would also like to thank all the wonderful people who are present. tonight we celebrate the just published memoir of seymour hersh simply called reporter. he will sign books after our conversation. it's not my habit to read blurbs but this one is quite extraordinary. it's a blurb that you stick on the book. this blurb is by john and says,

this book is essential reading for every journalist and aspiring journalist the world over. quite in endorsements. now, i also would like to give you a sense of just how extraordinary this book is and how beautifully it is written. i will read to you the first paragraph in the first sentence of the second paragraph, which you will see is very important. the first paragraph goes like this -- i am a survivor from the golden age of journalism when reporters for their newspapers do not have to compete with the 24 hour cable news cycle. when newspapers were flush with cash from display advertisements and want ads and when i was free to travel anywhere, anytime, for any reason with company credit

cards. there was sufficient time for reporting on breaking news story without having to constantly relate what was being learned on the newspaper webpage. there were no televised panels of experts in journalism on cable tv who began every answer to every question with the two deadliest words in the media world -- i think. we are starting with fake news hyped up in incomplete information and forced assertions delivered nonstop by our daily newspapers. our televisions and online news agencies, social media and our president. this is next to her sentence. yes, it is a mess. [laughter]

[applause] in closing i wonder if you are applauding yes it's a mess or the fact that it is one or that seymour wrote that. seymour writes on the second page of his memoir says my career has been all about the importance of telling important and unwanted truths and making america a more knowledgeable place. we've given our life from the newport public library spring the hopefully fitting title of unwanted truths. now, many of you know that for the last seven or eight years have been asking my guest to give me a biography of themselves in seven words that might find them or might not, a haiku of sorts and my favorite, for the moment apart for my own which i got for my mother, said to me when i was 11 years old

that i had two ears and one mouth which i used as my seven words but joan said seven words do not yet defined we but i think, my favorite one for the moment is ken 17 words. would you like to hear them? it's fun rounding up the usual suspects. here is seymour hersh. [applause] >> it's weird to be asked to summarize anything in seven words but that is okay. >> you did a great job. >> newspapers always take ten words and reduce it so you get used to it.

>> but i didn't like those seven words. they are my favorite for the moment. >> nanoseconds. >> your critics have often described you as paranoid and you've always been a big reader of fiction so perhaps it make sense for us to start with a line of thomas who wrote the following proverb to paranoids. he said: if they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers. >> i read that book years ago os it written? long time ago. i remember that line but the idea is not bad for the purpose of -- let's put it this way, the

most salacious words i know are we have high confidence when the american government to government site we have high confidence and they said it again and again for 18 months that saddam hussein and this is in 2000 before the invasion of 2003 with high confidence he has weapons of mass destruction and they also said, i have to tell you again and again, they say we have high confidence that the russians were responsible for hillary losing. when i hear that i think there's another story there and so in a way they're posing the wrong reality to turn -- his idea is right. if they get people it's a good idea. if the government can somehow deflect what could be serious rational concern by making

statements for which there is no basis, they went because it's hard -- even have a case where we have a resident was a born-again rider and lies about everything. it's more than a line. it's a pathology because in the middle of it a minute sentence you say something and later say i did not say it which is the lie he makes it like a three -year-old. maybe i'm being cruel to three -year-olds but anyway, he does. he was in a world that does not exist and how do you smell that? >> how do you? when you begin? >> when the president says he saw pictures of starving children or children murdered by the evil saddam hussein or in this case we had that with bush in creating a universe that did

not live up to the point but we have this president in the press does not believe anything he says except when he says things like president of sod murdered 800 people with and when they say we saw pictures of dead people there's a funny thai comedy and some things we don't believe anything he says about but sometimes when he says something like people we don't like or people that are unpopular saddam thing is a hated man in america and we always have to have people we hate and it started with hitler and then you go through the list with the [inaudible] in iran and would always have people we've hated. i can't understand -- replete

with the statements and the facts so why on some things from a foreign policy he is taken literally. i don't. as a mean his aunt but i just don't. i just say i don't believe him about what he says about anything he wants to say he did change -- you know, he is running for reelection in the fact that he did today with the children he's committed to running. at this point -- >> is that how you read? >> he cannot go another day without the first time he was losing fiercely across the boa board. the newspapers and "the new york times" is a great newspaper even though the money is not there and it's been a great deal of time on investigative stuff. on the major front a fencing match with his spread their living in his world and playing in his little bedpan or whatever

it is -- [laughter] [inaudible conversations] >> anyway, i do not want to say that i try to stop yourself but i couldn't. and so, look, this is not anything about it he said in the beginning about the people who say i think and i watch these and i stopped watching cable television and we got to the country now where there is no -- i worked at the near times i called it the days in the 70s taking seriously and if we wrote something it meant that it was rational judgment and you can take it to the bank. now what you have is a full half of america the don't believe anything anybody says negative or new york times or nbc or cnn

and they want to listen to fox for the papers that support their rights and to not everything else. there is no middle ground in the media and unfortunately the times has joined in with this visceral and i think they should back off because it doesn't mean you give them -- it just mean means -- for me it means don't worry about what he says but let's write about yemen and two months ago and what did it take until someone broadcast children crying for the press to get into it. it was they are and why worry about pruitt, the guy who runs the epa who believes he's entitled to whatever he's entitled to. we've always had people -- he got the worst cabinet going but let's think about the things he did. i was at a journalism conference last week in orlando, investigative reporters and editors in a group of young journalist large group, 1800

wanting to become reporters because i think they see young people -- it's a renaissance with this group i re, it's called, their annual conference is three times as many in the downtime for the market when people are going into the business knowing they were not get the money they did and i mentioned my credit cards at the near time. my first week at "the new york times", the first day of that night business air france to start covering the peace proce process. [inaudible] i'm suddenly -- it was the glory days and not like that anymore. kids go into it because they care and so i talked to people that go to the conferences and talk to reporters from oklahoma and they tell me things like they have a manufacturer of baby

carriages and he could cut costs on the manufacture and baby carriages and toddlers have followed out of them for years and they toughened the restriction and a eight month baby can't fall out of it now and they cut back for safety and manage to lobby the conservatives who work for trump and they produced some of the requirements for having these -- on their mechanism they made it easier for tied to pop out and it's being litigated but that is the stuff i thank you could go after all week and if [inaudible] use because until this thing happens he was up eight points in the pool. in the last two months with all this i to proration and some of the stuff -- i mean, it is bad.

he is president and is bad for the ghost to be a and it's bad he doesn't know a thing about nuclear arms but most presidents don't. ronald reagan did not know nuclear arms and he did not know how bombs were delivered or anything. in this case i'm trying to think how secret this crap is. there was a very intensive paper done about the leader or third-generation of north korea and was done by those who work for the american government and many in private practice in clinical psychologist and psychiatrist and psychoanalyst that look at information that you can see and i can see and intercepts conversations he's had a private stuff we collect. in america we say the iranians and russians and chinese are this and everything but where

the big listeners and traffic at it. we are really good we just don't want to talk about it. we know who does what. we had stuff on him and his guys are given the transcripts they produce a report and its extensive. the president will never read it but it's about this guy's incredible desire to have money and to not be an impoverished nation. he wants to be a leader but leader and do that so they tell it to the president and the way it comes out in his conversation for which he was marked he says to him you got beautiful beaches i could see condos and he is the atlantic city guy in casinos and all that and he is not worth the idea is a fossil idea. he can't articulate because he didn't get enough of it to know that i can offer this guy money

and he'll drop his bombs. that is what is going on. it's a little more completed than the press makes it it's not him bubbling. he will be that way forever but my attitude towards it in here talking politics when they should answer instead of saying telling you what i think initiatives are by saying the hell my note which is what i would answer because it doesn't matter what i think. >> but how the hell do you know? >> i know people all my life and been to places that would surprise people. my editors at "the new york times" they use to someone who talk to me would say being offered a big inside job and would call me in one case he said they don't know that i'm talking to and what i know is once -- he's developing a kitty and said in the state of the

union no one paid any attention to it and he said will have a marshall plan we did. go back and read the last paragraph and maybe a stop listening early but it was at the end of the speech is it's hard to listen. it is hard to listen. [laughter] this is something else but he is president. he said will have a marshall plan and private companies will contribute for it. he's been busy money around the world for a reconstruction kitty that is over 1 billion now in three or 4 billion will announce at some point after the congressional elections and he will not lose and will not get in each world -- >> he will not? no, i don't exhibit collusion and robert mueller's problem is it says that you have of problem

to take this step knowing what you have in the start. you can separate and will impact the step b and this is in. the idea of a significant collusion -- what? it's let's do this and there is no that or nobody there is only a. how are you poop that he was colluding with the russians? he's not capable of that. he's got a problem. it will not get enough and they looked at his tech stuff right away. i know that but they did not find enough to make a chart. so, let me ask you? >> but i'll just answer it for minutes again so go ahead. [laughter] >> i will try to change that if i can. >> you opened it up, man. >> you speak about yourself and your memoirs about calling yourself an aggressive learner and you said you signed up as a teenager to the

book-of-the-month club what books did they send you? >> i was 13 and you have to understand my parents were immigrants, dare i say, were not gone to high school i did not figure them out eastern european lithuanian wish they did not communicate very well with students. we were a different generation we so my mother mitigated by cooking and my mother and father mitigated by say nothing. he liked walter littman's when you could read and write but he never talked about it. when i was 13 i joined up and saw these ads for the book of the month club which was huge back then, 800 years ago, it was 99 cents a month and i signed up for the nonfiction and four out of the ones i would get

something by j edgar hoover on the perils of communism and this was in the early 50s. [laughter] then i would get a book about the habsburg monarchy and chinese civilization so i was like what? i was in grammar school so they did not teach you much in school and i could read and write i could read and write stuff like that. >> then you got about communism and did you detect that something was fishy or wrong? >> how in the hell do i remember? [laughter] >> it's interesting question because you ask yourself that question if you don't remember often -- >> but i do remember is let me jump ahead ten or 15 years and i'm a reporter in chicago for the associated press and worked as a police reporter and oh my god, but anyway it was great because i was a chicago kid southside of chicago and i'm in a town of 10000 and -- what?

i had to figure it out. that helped but when i did my first reaction to the vietnam war i was passionate and i began to read the near times early every day that i began to read bernard ball and i'm working for the ap and they were great to me. i was good so they let me run. i grew up working in an black neighborhood and very sensitive to racial issues and i got to know mahalia jackson, the senior and martin luther king was assigned to cover him and i was madly in love. the ap is powerful and you have a rally and he say like coming me later and then i would be like yes, sir. i was in love. i go see him and he would do the

ap is every paper in the world that he would do it for the overnights. he understood my business but there were rallies and there were rocks thrown and he was martin and rocks thrown in a panic about blacks marrying their daughters taking their jobs is a real serious stuff he would never waver. scared to death but not afraid to say i was always scared that he would and i would go and he would see me and say i'm so mad at the president johnson for not doing this or that and i have a great story the next day he will do that with me a lot but getting back to the earlier stuff. i started reading about the vietnam war because i thought coming. i don't know why. my first impression i read david and [inaudible] both became friends and knock him brown was under the ap and maury schaefer

of cbs and the first guy to report that they were touching villages for which he got into trouble. the journalist who later become a good novelist and my thought that was much the conventional thought -- we have to stop communism and is coming. i did note the history of vietnam and china and i do not know they hated each other. dan was the first and he couldn't get the pentagon to understand that were fighting the north vietnamese and the thought that the chinese would come and he's never been a big thing or anything other than a major serious issue and the korean war was a thought russians were responsible for. not at all. anyway, i thought we got to stop from his him but they were fighting the word wrong.

they were not finding it for a way that it took me little while to realize this is mass murder and i have to -- i got assigned to washington from chicago and if you cover the pentagon. i can't believe it is so original but we had access to reporting to the officers and the good people and what you want other guys that when they take the oath of office it is an oath to the constitution. it's an oath to the general or the admiral or to the president but you find these guys and they began talking to me and i told them about my great skepticism and this is back in 65, 66 and they began to talk about mass murder out there. i was reading the other thing when i go to journalism school to talk and they always say what is a trick and i say read before you write.

i wrote the church groups of up booklets about the war -- >> i want to stop you there to stop me anytime. >> someone i discovered for you very late in life now and i think what mattered to me greatly was want to show you a little moment with him and let's look at video number one is not the lion but -- ♪ ♪ >> [inaudible] >> institutions are powerful and those who run them are run by them because the circumstances and nature of the institution severely limit his decision-making capacity.

men can't live without institutions so it's important in a good society to have institutions to have them in support and to have independent voices and the freedom to express themselves to check the abuses of the institutions. >> what about those in the men that you have [inaudible] >> [inaudible] take a man like mcnamara who was a great enable man but there was little he could do as secretary of defen defense. no matter how active or vigilant ahead of it is it's very --

[inaudible] >> you have to have full power. >> yeah, sure. you have to have [inaudible] criticize their shortcomings and that is what is supposed to be or the press becomes itself institutionalized. >> doesn't have an adversary relationship with institutions and government? >> it stops being adversary and

that doesn't mean it needs to be a perpetually hostile or basically skeptical. >> you look younger than i remember? [laughter] >> he's extraordinary. i want you to tell about me and him. >> yeah and how you got him into the ap office. >> i didn't know much about him until i had gotten married and he got me into it and as far as reading i have got assigned by the associated press and i was a reporter there in washington and said i was good and i got assigned to washington and i was assigned to the pentagon and i

thought mcnamara and it did not take me long to think mcnamara was a psychotic liar and i got involved in the story that's about the government of airlines and airplanes and the fact that i was in a month being the gun is going after him about not telling the truth let me to those guys in the pentagon and those officers with four stars were very worried about the line going on in the war. i began to write stuff and i don't know how the spell it but he did. i was writing stories for the ab with a neutral organization with an edge. >> you do know -- >> but what you say was i was newly married and my wife and i went out for dinner and we got to bed at 3:00 o'clock and my first encounter with izzy was at 6:30 in the morning when it there's a new stance in downtown

washington that gives the sunday papers by 6:00 he would give in the waiting for the stand open so would call me and become a conversation like this. i thought maybe it was the desk anyway -- he said you are the same guy that's reporter and i said yes, have you seen page 19 in the bulletin today? [laughter] i said hell, no. we agreed to meet. i then began to take talks with them and walks with him that he would come and get me and even on weekends when i was not at the pentagon or whenever we would take walks for hours sometimes. he was a teacher. >> but to the point to read before you write. >> it's what he did. i read about he was permitted by

the ap to come and read all the files and he was the most insight he was not ever -- he did not like communism but he didn't not like the way communism treated his people. he didn't like any totalitarianism he did like treating those in vietnam. the ap was getting every night they would get in the washington bureau every day in saigon there was a briefing and this went on for years and it was a long briefing of everything that happened all the raids and is he wanted access to it. there was a time that i was working and i was working a sunday double shift and maybe it was and i'm jewish and maybe it was a holiday or something like christmas and i told him i was

working a double shift and he said can i come and will you let me in and i said of course, i want to go for those files. i started and he was waiting for me and there was only me and a tele- typist and had to explain and so today we had the thing where there is big library is in library and he's just there and he's about -- as i wrote the only thing i would hear was a noise of happiness and little grandson i would say at about 1:00 o'clock and he was in heaven. he took those files and later wrote a four-page spread and from those files that he had read over a period through the tech stand down and there was a fear where there is no fighting for this beneficent series of how we are misusing the ways we accuse the other side of doing

it but we were doing it worse and i remember thinking wow. it was coming, it was not all work and one time he introduced my wife and i and once we invited them to dinner just the four of us and his wife was the daughter of the sister of leonard bodine is my wife father had practiced law with the we had some connection and i remember my wife making chinese food about a half an hour before we came and we realized it was verbal. some of that stuff is -- a rent chinese restaurant, a good one, and beat him by two minutes. we put it in pots and you have to know. [laughter] you could get a sense he had a sense of humor. >> incredible. >> he was proud of himself. he became successful in it up moving next to the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee and they became great

friends and to three was not or a bomb tour. izzy and fulbright were buddies and the site is want to make it. he wasn't afraid to consort with some power because fulbright was on the right side of the war and all that but it was he saw something in me that was right. it helps meet later when i couldn't get them published and i stay friends with him all his life and -- >> i like you to respond to a quotation by george orwell about morality and language and i thank you do. in light of your reporting aboue politics of the english langua language. in our time political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible and things

like the continuance of british rule in india and the russian purges and deportations and the dropping of the atom bombs on japan can indeed be defended but only by arguments which are too brutal for most people to face and do not square is a professed aims of the political parties. political goal language has to consist largely of euphemism, question begging and sheer cloudy bigness. defenseless villagers bombarded from the air and the inhabitants are driven out in the countryside's and the machine guns and the houses that fire within scary bullets and this is called pacification. millions of peasants are robbed of their farms and sent trudging along the roads with no more than they can carry and this is called transfer of operation or

rectification from peers. people imprisoned for years without trial or shot in the back person to die of scurvy in arctic lumber camps and this is called elimination of unreliable elements. such phraseology is needed if one wants to name things without calling up mental pictures of them. >> what year was that? is at their? anyway, we called the pacification. [laughter] the vietnam war -- what am i to say except it still goes on. what we call -- he calls this atrocity going on at the border and he initially calls it it's their fault.

these people are coming to rob us and steal us and it's a language but he is not good at it. jack kennedy was very good at it. jack kennedy started a lot and lyndon johnson is not that good at it. kennedy was great at it. he made the first plunge into the war and to this day i don't know and the people all say i wrote a book about kennedy that is a lot but unfortunately i learned a lot of other stuff from the secret service so that became their dedication with the book. it's not 18 chapters about assassinations he was involved in with his brother and it compromises made by investigation and scorched earth policies that were in this is what orwell was talking about. we did it in vietnam. that's how it goes. >> you went back to [inaudible]

about three years ago -- >> i do not want to go back ever but i made my first fame and as i said, my wife and kids and the dog, the cat, the gerbil, the mice and all the animals buried in the backyard wanted me to go back. after some years i finally did and i wrote a piece for the new yorker about it. what i don't say in describin describing -- there's a couple chapters with more detail about doing the story but what he is talking about there is if you read what's his name the great investigations done by shaw if you read the church groups that published in the 60s about what was going on in vietnam and if you read some of the stuff

that was being published in europe about the war he knew there was something really wrong and i was learning ogt been in the pentagon as a reporter and i ran into be troubles with them, the ap about it, because mcnamara was lying about farming and we do not have satellite sent. i learned they were bombing in line about it and hear us salisbury had gone to vietnam and accused of being a traitor because he wrote about the bombing he saw and i also read i want to say that god bertrand russell which was i remember reading i read it in the 66 or 67 and had just come out and no

one in america paid much attention but a section on vietnam where they had the boys testify from cleveland and there were 65 march of 65 line that the orange man does and line that johnson did and johnson spent much of 65 saint will not send boys there but by march he had boys there. when the marines went there in the summer he still lied about it. that is quite a lie to the american people. first group that wedding in march said were going to a village with tanks and mortars in the go to a village and they thought they'd find the enemy and it's the same story three years later and they find nobody there and they're frustrated and enraged because they can find the enemy and yet at night someone would take a shot and killed somebody in there be a sniper and they'd fall into a pit with bamboo sticks and they were losing people. the captain of this one persons unit said okay, they went on a mission began the process and if they didn't find enemy everyone

could have a mad minute. those shooting rockets of the tanks in those with rifles and machine guns did you shoot up anybody in the village? me, they refill of people but that's okay. they had a mad minute. i knew it was so. it was just that stuff and so that is for me to believe the story because i had gotten a tip out of nowhere and the thing that is a started to say the story i don't tell as i am writing about myself but some things are too hard to deal with and i finish the books want to go in effect checked it and spent months doing that and it was as good as the new yorker as far as editing and research and

we worked hard on it but what i did not talk about was when i first got it at from a lawyer named jeff collen and his father had been head of cbs news a decade earlier and he was working this and is working for the first public policy nonprofit law firm doing social stuff in washington. he said he did for me and call me 6980 months after the life and said i heard that some gis have gone crazy and there's a big massacre they are hiding and 75 people were killed my nose is running start going to wipe it. there you go. you don't have kleenex here so what will i do? anyway, i can return it's not that next weekend monday the called and kept him blowing his nose in a shirt that i remembered that his mother's i cannot get mad at him but i did

not like it. [inaudible] that's the editor he's been cleaning up after me for two years but now literally. what else will you do? >> i'm going to put that back here -- >> is this the crowd that will come up to me and i've spoken to groups with a lot more than this and got done and everyone came up and said no one could hear anything. >> no, i thank you can hear. >> i did a talk earlier today about the journalist and runway the started screaming we can hear. >> no, they can hear you. >> okay. i start doing a story and i'm thinking okay, it will be a good story about killing people and then i discovered as i do it that there's not about some

hand-to-hand combat they go to the village of civilians that they are bent by bad intelligence, cia contact employer was an idiot like they were hiring people left and right and the pinkerton cops were joining the cia and be in charge of an intelligence and it was comical. they told a group of kids done nothing they were farm kids and this unit in particular had a higher percentage of african-americans and hispanics the most units in the white kids were world kids, not educated. marginally educated. mcnamara lowered the standards because by 67 too many bright white kids with college degrees were beginning to get in the army and seeing what was going on and not liking it. he realized got to get them out. worked for senator mccarthy when he was running for president and he was so dissident and

difficult and i didn't know if i would do it. he needed someone to write speeches and what he said to me what he said in the first speech about vietnam and this is in late 67 when bobby kennedy were not run against johnson and they couldn't get anyone to challenge johnson for the nomination. he gave a speech and said two things. it backed me out. and never was anything but typical. i wrote about him in a way i've never done before. he said that this is an immoral war. he been in a monastery and i could never talk about it was very religious and he went to mass every day and he spent nine months in silence and a benedictine monastery in minnesota. he was born there.

he said this is immoral and i'm just debating what i will do this. close a freelance writer and was offered the job and i cannot do it in the press and the ap fired me and one day mcnamara had gone nuts about something i wrote and went to the head of the ap the next thing i know i was resigned from the pentagon to health and human services and i took the hit. you understand that guys like me as i later learned my job essentially was to walk into the office with [inaudible]. i believe i dumbed it on the desk and said okay this is a story that will take a lot of time and may not work and will get people that hate you and all that and after a little while it gets counterproductive. in any case mccarthy said two things in the immoral war and he also said he is changing and

talk about johnson about lowering the standards and said he's changing the color of the corpses from white to more hispanic yellow and black and he's changing the color. i was knocked out. i never heard such talk. noah talks morality anymore. i did go to work for him and anyway what happened they were told they would meet the enemy there a mythical unit that does exist and the 48 north vietnamese that used to fight americans and they fought in central highlands and they were not in this part of this beautiful coast and the fount about 560 men come out williams at william and women and children and began to slaughter them. i am learning this and i do not know and i just knew that something happened and i find the kids that did it and i found the lieutenant and i eventually find people to the killing of

pal named all that later on television and i couldn't bear and they were throwing infants off and catching them and bayonets and raping the woman like crazy from five 50 and some of that stuff was i had been in the army and i thought this set and and we were sensitive in world war ii and we do not know what really happened. this wonderful academic at yale and i forgot his name people spoke about censorship and i am when i was a kid my sisters used to take my brother and me at the end of world war ii to the victory theater on the south side of chicago where we saw that war movies with her

propaganda. earl flynn and john wayne and they had a fight over a nurse in the officers club and the boys flew 251, the cadillac of the sky is a wonderful writer wrote it, the british letter of these -- anyway, my wife will tell me tomorrow what it is. anyway, in the movies i saw flynn in john wayne had terrible fistfight over a nurse in the next day they are fine against the nets and he's on the tail of john wayne and at the last minute golf and save his life by shooting bullets and our boys in the movie i saw you with a canopy open in our guys head

[inaudible] and their guys at the canopy closed, buck teeth and they were these cats with soft leather and in the chicago in the winter my mother used to tie under the chin with a bow tie and we hated those things. they were those helmets and big glasses and the bullets would fly in on the plane would go down and remember you could hear it was primitive but it looked as good as "star wars" to the kids of those age. just before he was shot just before he hit the water this is literally what i remember a trickle of blood would come out of the corner of his mouth and he hit the water and die and we went nuts. that was my definition of world war ii. we flew around thumbs up, the white scars that turns out we don't fight words any better than anybody else.

i will start the american people that in a story and i knew what i was up against. this will not be easy as i got into it. in one case there was a boy done most of the shooting and i was writing stuff and i cannot get anyone to buy it. actually people don't know i will for this -- reporters in vietnam recovered the work they knew the enemies and i learned has a kid from a farm. it can name paul not overwhelmingly just a kid but did not know much and not bright but they told him to shoot in a ditch in the lineup kids and most of the shooting was there were three companies and two of them killed wherever they could. kelly was an organizer and put them in a ditch and there's a famous picture of the ditch i went back to look at the ditch, not easy to do. not easy to do. anyway, he was a couple of boys

shot a couple of rounds like 70 bullets or semi automatic and he shot clip after clip and the next day got his leg put off. it was famous in the unit because they were marching around on a patrol and then lied about everything that happened another day in the war there is no such thing was more about murder but violation of rules. they violated the rules. that's my explanation of vietnam and the torture and killing. the next day he was medevac out and i remember someone gave me a company roster for thanksgiving they were still in the barracks in hawaii they didn't get to january in vietnam and a lot of the boys are home by then. they are home and doing it from america but was in and i remember i was in salt lake -- i

don't remember that put dimes for information but i called every telephone exchange and knew he was from indiana and there was a place called goshen and i got this old southern voice right next to the deep south and the kkk was there in the 1920s lower indiana. i had no idea and i fly from i was in salt lake by the chicago and fly to minneapolis i get a car and there is no gps and they go to tear out and this i call up and i say i'll get there and i assume that -- [inaudible] how is your son foot and he says he's doing all right with it and i said he's back from the war and she said yes and that's way i figured out and i said is there living and she said yes, he's here and, come talk to them about the war and she said i don't know if we'll talk to you but i was polite and she said i

don't know. i fly there and i finally get to this farm is an old rundown farm with chicken cubes and the wires gone and i don't know what paul is doing but her husband died earlier and i learned later in the park in front and i got this suit and i don't change shirts today. anyway, i know people do. i pull up and she comes out and she is petite but she looks 70 and i say hello, i'm mr. hersh the guy the calls and i said is paul around and she says he's in there and then this old woman who is not for the newspaper does not know much and she said, about her son, about the work, she said i sent him a good boy and they sent me back a murderer. you are dealing in -- i don't

know what you're dealing in but i was like, i don't know what to think. i go see the kid -- >> do you remember what you thought? >> the first thing i thought was i would go say hello and say to him to got to boot and show me your leg. i want to see the stump. he lost his leg. i just always had a sense that if someone -- i say, what's going on and was happy but i don't want to attend it's not there. i always try to do that. people get comfortable if you say you know, you know, you don't say things like you know you don't have one leg or something like that but you do it politely. i just figured the hell with it. i will not ask questions at first. he showed me his leg. i said how long did it take. later i got a letter from somebody who i -- he was taken

from the field with the blown off leg and he was eventually evacuated we went to emergency hospitals and flown to japan where he spent five months we learning things and he was not as quick and rehabilitation. the fellow monks was next to him for the months, another guy who shot me a letter in the early 70s and i kept it. it's a private letter so don't put it in the book and i have no idea how to reach them but he said i slept next to paul for two and half or three months and he was comatose. he never said a word. not one word. then i began to get letters when there was a book published and random house did a book and i got letters from young doctors working in japan and this is later in 70, 71 the war and war

was going bad and no one wanted to do with the officers were doing and you had a major movement and american no one wanted to be the last guy shot in a losing, crappy war that i want to write about. a young officer coming out of west point would say we will go on patrol and everybody's out and they would get shot in the back. the doctor said i have people saying racine 45 a month committed with bullet holes in the back and we can't keep them alive. it was amazing stuff. anyway, orwell, i was ready for those guys. >> i want to talk about the cia spying. let's jump to december the second, 1974 and look at image for. >> what is two and three like. [laughter]

>> very good question. >> there it is. >> there it is. >> operation repaired against inside us workforces and other dissidents in the nixon years. you comment on this and also how you got so much space? >> there's a lot in the book about it because when i started -- first, a lot of reasons -- i had a contract that came out for a book having to do with protecting people who are still in clear intelligence people -- >> and you couldn't -- >> there was a talk about how the people view the constitution as a nuisance and [inaudible] he was paying for it with billions of dollars that he was parking in various banks and i know

where and who and how it worked. this is a complete violation of the constitution. ... they said do a memoir. do one that you really didn't want to do. how do another one in ten years. that was my concern. i kept on saying you can be alive and be legendary. with that legendary report. i'm not dead.

what happened is in doing the book a couple of things about it. they might think that people don't need to pay attention. that is a definition i don't like. you're one of those guys. that is interesting. the president that does not understand what words mean. you are in real trouble. he doesn't understand words. that's what he can set it he can say that ten minutes later. we will survive this. that's what i'm saying. the republic will stand if we have to get rid of him will do it. but so far and means that he's

dead set to run again. and the democrats better think of some policies there can do it. going back it's actually a great story about the new york times. i learned about the stuff about the spine i learned something about it two years early. and i didn't tell anybody. the cia did a history. they were tracking me. i didn't know that. is that declassified study. written by a very bright cia

analyst. with all of the intercepts in phone conversations that i head for two years so here's the story. i am using anonymous sources. they used to ask me. who the sources are. same with dave vic remnick. i named one of them in the book. the family was fine with it. he was a special assistant. to richard helms. he was deeply involved in domestic spine before that. when you get something. there is nothing better than a guy inside who decides at a certain point i can't live with this anymore. and then that's what you need. you don't need a guy inside the skin to make it revalued. they come to me sometimes. people know i will take care of them. i have have not hurt anybody.

that's why don't do certain things i could do. it's troublesome to me. the point is in the golden boy. and december 20 i saw it. thought. the have of the cia. i finally went down and he agreed to see me in the morning. i went through a list. at this point he did know how much i knew. it was the next day after i saw him on the 20th the number two guy in the justice department. he said did hirsch ever talked about stuff. the next day he learned i knew about the jewel. before i talk to me. we did some wiretaps but he minimized the numbers. he didn't deny anything. and for the cia after 911 the

job is to lie. that's their job. that's what they do for a living. that it they to do some wonderful things also. they are there to lie about what they do. the hurt people they make mistakes. they will never acknowledge that. we screwed that up. i told him. the editor of the times. who had what hired me. for the new york from 70 to 72. i couldn't get a job in the newspaper. it was against the war. it was a mess.

on december 201974. i have to tell type history of been working on. it's the biggest story i've been spying on americans. go write it. high up in the cia had never been known. there are phonebooks then. usually the wife's name was in the phonebook. i could find a lot of people.

he is running for president. this is the saturday and friday. the two days before the story ran. that's why he run the presidency. john carey was running in 2004. i have the same issue with him. i was at a dinner. one of the veterans that through rocks. they decided instead to run on

the record. that one them the election too. i called -- six or seven major people i know what you been doing. the have of that. angleton said you are helping them run it was over a hundred thousand files they have. what i could never get to. the big person they were looking at. they were killed in that process. i always wondered. i got a lot of stuff. it was a big story. it was given. i knew the game.

without saying that. with seven different people. i go home for dinner. they go back. about two or three in the morning. i'm just going to spin offshore. they ran the sunday paper. it was a big paper for the times. it had 574 pages in it. it was making money like you couldn't believe. they were great. they went make more than one and half a half to two and half% profit. that's the way it was then. as much different now. i'm writing and the guy that's making up the sunday paper. there was some early thing.

to be available. it's a powerful national paper. they said that you're writing a story. we have no space. can we hold in a day or two. he was a good guy. but his job was to put out the sunday paper. there were some ads. is just a good rule. it lengthens my life. and it's 230 in the morning. i'm being told this is can

enact the cia into hell. keeping files on americans. it's the story of the fbi. congratulations they are doing the job. they were only allowed to spy overseas. big hundreds of thousands at work. i can't help it. i don't know what to do. i called up and who i met once. she answers the phone i said i have to go find it. nothing more fun than being alone in the newspaper. just me in a guy. there is still life there.

nobody talking to me are bothering me. even though i'm there. in my space i don't say anything. i just said that to myself. i call up. i said i've got to talk to abe. don't you know he's left me for that nasty word for a lady. whatever she said. she was mad. and she hung up. it was 230 in the morning also. i said to myself i'm in a soap opera. but then i thought the story has got to go. it was the story that was more important that was somebody. i call her back. and she answers. i said even a reporter for 30

years. let me tell you what the story is about. it is a story that you would be very proud of. i need to know of the person. and she gave it to me. because she wrote that story in the paper. i guessed right. she was an editor's race. she have some feeling for the institution. you do have a feeling for. then i have a problem because this person was one of those people because of what she did for a living was not in the phone book. i have published some books. i call my agent. who have something in his office that handled those people and had phone numbers. i just took a lot of people getting woken up. i got a number of this person's home.

and me i'm going nuts. i'm still writing. i'm about 4,000 words in this story. they talk about characters taking over. i've been working on the story for two years. i was worried about getting enough to make it go. they said there weren't a hundred and 42 americans. as he later wrote. he didn't know how much i knew more than that. obviously not. i am here because the memoirs are interesting. it's sort of nice writing about yourself. everything you think didn't happen that way. you check about that in the memoir.

>> when you got back and find out what your thinking about things. you can really do a lot. when i came here couple years ago. tom lennon took me there. they give it back to you guys. and their separate me. step on me. big files on me. it's so interesting. free coffee. we have the number. i was in the dialect for weeks. she answered the phone and said i don't care what's going on out there. he gets on the phone i said a couple of times in giving

talks. they hired me from the new yorker. ask if i could go. he liked me a lot. he was the famous editor in new york. i got along with him. but i need you. you could do more for america at the times than me. i have a lot of other reporters. you can be in there to just do it. he said to me. this wonderful me man said you will be fine. i always say -- stay friendly with him. abe gets on the phone he said the first thing he said was okay. where are you. what's your phone number.

look at the phone. he called me names. he was angry. it's 202. he said hang up and don't do anything. five minutes later he calls up he said okay i just want to know. you will pay for this. tomorrow. the new york times is can have 1.6 and then the back is going to be there. you're going to be on that page. you have to understand something.

he knew you saw the banner headline. they get those days. we were there to work with them on stories. the person and went to do was went to the files. they paid for the leadership. it feels like this. i always thought it should be

people talk about the problem i had changing the culture. i'm not exaggerating when i said that's the issue. they have to go after president and without knowing and checking the story. i have to go with what i have. what happened here is this is a day later. saturday. that is going to be shipped abroad. i went home. i come back. and it wasn't. this is december 21. this is the new york times taking on the cia on the basis of the kid name when i was going hot and heavy.

and he reassigned this. they can come up and do that. how is my little comic today. he knew i was against it. this is been going on for a year. there is a page in this paper i was asked by that. i cable news guy. we talked a little bit about this. he have no idea what the book was. they have a note from the producer. there are 36 pages of papers and a lot of words. i didn't do it.

i mumbled something. as a story about my life. this is what you have. you are a little cut above that. they ran that story. let me just finish. i named seven people. who are they. they ran a story ten hours after he finished writing it. no matter what i think. i get mad at the times. it is delivered to me in the morning. the subscribers that they just head with the credit card. that is the real money in the tank. i've been that way since 63. to do that that led this to

the church. in the first investigation. to oversee intelligence. i was blown was blown apart now by the craziness. it was copy editor. that's all. the most amazing time. we have a president that was no longer relieved on anything. they should not believe them on anything.

they were still running at the war. we set the agenda. we the collective press. we were writing it. it was a pleasure in someone to write about them. the book that you are currently writing. about dick cheney it's about cheney today. cheney started something. there is something called the watson institute. as a study group that has a run by that. when you look at image number two. what's image number two. i'm curious.

what about image number ten. seventy-six countries right now. and they developed the notion that you could can operate without congress knowing anything. and you found ways to fund it. he was very creative. there was a system set up. i know too much about right now. i cannot write about it. they're out-of-control. they're out-of-control. they are led by a general who does this. they are very christian. he was a disciple of shiner.

the notion that he did a lot of things. we are here to fight the infidels. this is 13th century. what happened in 911. with the killing. we the christians in the special forces are going to fight the masses of the arab world. you can fight an idea and set up the process and the reason. it's just beyond. it might not be possible to do it. because one of the problems there is so much stuff that we don't know about. this administration is incapable of getting control.

there's some the other things. and like to ask you. if you could look at image number five. i was kidding about that. i will tell you. that was a long time ago. i ask him to asked him to send me a question for you.

out of the experimental lab. it is the highest component idea. he is one of the most extraordinary peoples i have ever spoken to. and that was a long time ago. you could start out by saying that he it's a great mind and spirit of our time. the 170 fifth anniversary back in 2000. and keep four inspiration. the easy to answer question how has this democracy change. and as a quick follow-up what

is the meaning of life. how the hell do i know. it's too complicated. i knew him from a short story. i was at the new york event. and i was of course we just had a to her. one of your collections. amazing stuff. i can't. i'm just can say what i said earlier. we will get through this. we will get through this. i don't see the white knight on the horizon.

we saw obama by 2005. we could see him coming. we could see that there was hope there for 2000 and eight. we could see somebody coming that may be there. i don't see it. they talk about the guy, you tell me what's can happen. willoughby may be some woman is going to come out. a lot of women are running for congress.

going to have new leadership and, you know, british hillary did a disservice by taking control of the party making sure he didn't get a chance. we all know that happened with the deputy wasserman shuttle is that her name making sure that the five debates they had were on a sunday night or on a "monday night football" night. or at a strange space at a strange time that was all delivered we all know that now the idea was to freeze amount to make sure hillary won the election. which was i don't think that's -- an overstatement at all. and to obama's -- i fault obama for letting her do it. she also led the party dry and

took money that should have been put into the -- local elections as she put it into the against the -- >> in closing you have said -- [laughter] what does that mean? that word. that phrase another book -- oh, in closing does that mean -- shutup? >> no. it means i want you it answer something else. >> i can't answer george's question. such a complicated way. >> that's fine. he would maybe you'll have a chance to answer -- >> didn't recognize him. so don't tell him that. but he might see this. i don't. might be watching right now. [laughter] you say i will happily commit history to be the judge of my recent work. >> oh, yeah, and i did stuff upon -- i've done this stuff. i did something -- and i'm fascinated by libya what

happened in libya with all of the oil and i did stuff for i couldn't get it in american press i honestly think part of me thinks that i was writing stuff that if -- bush has been still president cheney would have been easy to do but it was hard to believe that the democrats in 2012 could be secretly working to support the isis -- the actually it was the extreme groups against bashar assad because assad fell on syria it was -- the country was going to be taken over by people who believe in the radical form of law and literally kill people who didn't agree with them and they accept a radical practices. and that was going to lead to an immediate war from with iran. iran was not going to tolerate that and same with israel physical israel for yapping got along with the iowa assad family. >> so you think you would be proven right? >> wait a minute, i think i was

right. i don't to be proven right by whom? >> by -- by -- in closing now -- [laughter] in closing now -- [laughter] i -- same sources i had when i wrote all of the other stories. i'm just saying -- and one of the problems in america is i did a lot for the review of the book which a lot of american reporters think it's one of those little tabloids they give you in two, in the subway before you go in full of ads, you know, they have no idea that they would hire new york or fact checkers, pay tons of money to fact check stories as incredibly well. not pay me as well as new yorker nothing like the new yorker but that's the way it goes, and so -- it just america got too hard it was just -- if i had to think about it -- it probably had to do "democrats in some unconscience way that you didn't want to believe democrats would support the crazies and it was a story called about -- it was called the redline and

rat line, and another one was about bin laden. if you want to believe that -- [laughter] i don't to go there because it's -- i could write more about it they know much more about it and i've had people. feel the secrecy on you. >> no. i never feel the burden of secrecy it is much more. it is a mild word. i feel obligation of people that talk to me. >> you know what i did in that story when i did it for the london view and computers broke on the story and a million hits overnight and moas amazing, magazine editor here through it away because america, all over the world widely accepted in the fourth one of the things you don't do is you don't name the station chief. if he -- even if he's been outdone the station chief in pakistan what the story was simply somebody walking and told us five months before it happened that he was a

prisoner of the pakistani intedges service. that's all that was the story. and the cia has a special team -- they do -- they do interrogation of -- you know anybody who is a suspect it was he was a pakistani high ranking officer and there was a high reward with 25 bucks for information he got 20 of them he moved to another country but i knew about that. and i knew that started a process that led to the killing of bin laden. he was a prisoner -- and we were very angry at the pakistanis the pakistanis dngts tell us because -- they captured him in -- in qowb inside in the area between pakistani and india they captured him the pakistanis, and they held him because -- the scraib did not want him to be -- put on trail and he had a lot of money on table for years to keep him quiet so the station chief -- it was a very, very confident guy, and a good serious guy, and

i didn't know what to do. i wanted to telegraph that i knew more that i'm writing, so i named him. i said they quacked into him and i said a special team i would use code word for these kind of defectors that come in there's a special unit that just we're not just talking ab lie detector but a unit whether somebody is telling you the truth or not. i'm not talking about paranormal stoves but very clever -- deductions of -- and they're very competent and he was handled by a special unit, and -- name was george bank -- and so here's what i thought. i said okay, they're going to go nuts about this at the white house. with what obama did was he made something that was a rogue mission into -- i did it. why? because the political people said this is reelection, and he's a black running for reelection and it was support to

be reelected i thought so too. i could understand when the story first -- i offered it at the -- new yorknew yorker and hesitante and i did it because i -- i'm stubborn i won't let a story sit, and particularly one that there's no reason. not the publish what, you know, when i ready to anyway. so i thought -- banks was known inside by a lot of people as being a very high quality person. somebody who was going to rise high. and i thought if the agency wants to blow him, and screw me to the wall, he's in the graph of my story get them to go on cnn, cable say that is just crazy well he didn't do it. and i thought some of reporters will figure out wow, i left a tale there. there's a big tale about what wases going, i can say right now there's a tailing everybody is missing about trump and what happened. after the election, there's a big tale that nobody figured out

a tale as big as you want to make it the guy i name station chief and he didn't say or deny the story. i mean that's what you would do. but -- everybody was so -- when story first broke, and there was a big fight in the white house about it. because he had made a commitment to pakistanis not to talk about it for a week or ten day answer have body found in pakistani or in afghanistan. nobody was supposed to know he was living there. he was living there as a prisoner in secret nobody was supposed to know. we wanted it. and the pakistanis had a intelligent service -- take the body with you. you're going to kill him. kill him. you have to kill hmm no trial take the body with you, we also had a supply incredible amount of money to do what the dees gave which had is sub general are to keep their mouth shut, there's a process for doing it. it's -- which i'll write in some other books some other time there's a way to do.

government figuressed out a way to do it involves oil so anyway -- so i actually thought in my naivete but what i didn't understand is the qhows was supposed to they sort of double crossed but you can understand these running for president, and they have the photograph going like this. for a lot of people that was wait a second you're having all worried about -- you're going to take a photograph of it? why would you photograph that and do you don't photograph a situation i been to secret, come on. so that's a -- it was all political. i mean it's not even hard to see if you remember the first stories bin laden was hiding behind two women with aq20 -- boys came in you have to cover the sales because there was a murder. they were doing a but that's their job and they have a phrase, they have an ugly phrase for -- some kind of a -- it was some kind of a -- it was one when a mission just a

fadeout murder. you know, they do it. that's their job and they came in and they did the hit and there's a couple one of the tales was they described in one of the books was about a door, you know he was a prisoner and they blew it. but i learned stool door if you blow with a dynamite charge and don't get the exact specifications of this -- depghts of the seal, and they're going to kill yourself because it is going to bounce back even down the hallway 30 feet you can really get in trouble. i talked a lot of -- bomb guys and they said so you have to know exactly what's in -- who told them that. they took the measurement for them and walked them in. and pakistani intelligence service so -- what happens is -- that for the first day, the first three, four days they have a roll back some of the stories they said no, he was then they said he was watching porn there was a picture of him watching

porn with 900 euro or something they told a lot of stories with roll back one of the favorite stories was everybody wanted to get in briefings about the great victory over bin laden. i mean war on terror was going to end. obama will be relengted one of them was -- that one brought a dog in illegally and the dog wases when they were in the compound doing the killing, there was -- one of the choppers exploded crashed and had to bring a release chop we are a big explosion and neighbors perhaps qowb curious. i will tell you, if you went and read the press about two or three weeks after the raid, they went and talked to neighbors all said the same thing. we were told that morning there was going to be a lot of action there that night close to winners who don't talk to anybody, and it's in the urgent press let me say this. so one of the stories was it was u.s. news one of the stories was the seals with a dog out there and dog was put outside to tell if anybody got curious about what's going on with those

explosions to bark and warn them off and i remember saying, a dog that barks in urdo wow we can't beat this story. but i did -- but it was two years later, and in the newspaper world when they all see the president and -- another mass brennan who was has had of -- a deputy president and cia director, who doesn't rely as because he hasn't been in office as long and this have all of these briefings that were going on and everybody is getting great stories and it is a wonderful story here comes somebody two years later that suggests a different history. the history is still is the same. some guy wrote a letter to london times saying he's a bad guy and obama killed him what else the rest fringes and obama did kill him and so what if anyway -- but they all my colleagues even at the "new york times" some of

the different story came out it was as if two years later there's no -- you can't have a different version i remember thinking to myself don't they have mothers? you know, a mother to tell them no common sense qowld say -- it's like that kennedy, you know -- one that doesn't matter. it's just the way it is. let me ask you this question. oh, my god, let me ask you this question and we -- true ending it is -- [laughter] a question that comes from morez my buddy nah he said what then -- what then is generally speaking the truth of the history? of fable agreed upon -- this quote is, of course, cynical. but is it true? its truth merely agreement

between people particularly where history is concerned. >> i took a course i studied for four years -- we read plato and souk are a socrates and final year met principles and it was sort of a one-year course by a brilliant professor in which you looked at all of it and earl morris does live in plato's republic. he's a wonderful. i worked with him on a documentary and he -- mostly -- he's just amazing. and -- he's full of those lines. [laughter] he wrote a wonderful strange book just recently published in chicago press about studies -- so the answer is how do i know? >> thank you very much. bye-bye. [applause] you're watching booktv on

c-span2 with nonfiction books and authors every weekend booktv, television for serious readers. >> and this weekend across all c-span networks we explore the state of alaska. on booktv, author mark adam is on our afterwards program to discuss an 1899 expedition up the coast of alaska by a group of scientists -- artists, conservist and writers. he's interviewed by former alaska public radio host liby casey, and from our recent visit to the 49th street with a help of our local table partner and we sit down with alaskan authors to learn more about state history and can culture from booktv archives authors discuss their books about alaska topics include exxon oil spill, the biggest earthquake in north american history, conservation efforts and a history of alaskan natives. also airing on booktv this weekend a conversation with adam bellot editorial director of all points books. on publishing art it is from

both the political right and left, library and congress and natural archivist collect physical materials in the digital age. professor argues that facebook is undermining democracy, and the new yorkers exams changing state of advertising and marketing. those are just a few of the programs on booktv this weekend. television for serious read arers. for a complete schedule visit booktv.org. booktv recently visited capitol hill to ask members of congress what they're reading this summer. >> senator dan sullivan what's on your summer reading list? >> i'm a serial readers who literally on my bookshelf right now i have three books one that i just finished it was condoleezza rice's book simply called democracy which i

would -- recommend to all readers she, you know, is former boss of mine when she was secretary of state and national security advisor. but she is just a smart insightful government official with experience but she's also an academic. and that is that kind of combination of her experiences as secretary of state as national security advisor. and kind of the theory of democracy that, you know, academics look at just the combination of a great book called the democracy i just finished that. i'm also kind of just finishing another book called the restless -- restless wave by senator john mccain who has been a great frepgd of miep and mentor in the senate and then i'm rereading -- because it was a good read and helps policymakers understand a real important country but pose opportunities for us for the next 50 to 100 years and that's

china. and henry wrote a great book called on china. that again kind of looks at his personal experiences with china. but also the history of china. so i'm kind of juggling three of those finished the book just finishing the book and restarting krising booking but all great reads. booktv wants to know what you're reading sending us your summer list on booktv twitter or instagram or on facebook. booktv on c-span2 television for serious readers. s >> so what are some of the books you're publishing this summer and fall? >> thank you for asking so nice to be here with you at the pex pow. we have a big book coming in just a few weeks. so we're very excited about that. it's called the briefing. i think the subtitle is -- the press, politics and the

president. it's john spicer big political narrative, and comes out july 24th. we are really excited because this is the first time that somebody has written a book who was in -- on the campaign in the transition team, and in the white house. and as shawn told us, you know, oftentimes those are very segmented the people who run the campaign are not really are the people who work in an administration and vice versa so he was one of the few people who went all the way through, of course, we know this is a very unusual white house. and he became something of a lightning rod because he's the space of the administration he's the spokesperson here's on the frontlines. so he has a really interesting story to tell, and one of the fun things is -- really -- kind of a regular guy and a nice irish catholic kid from new england who kind of fell into, you know, this alice and wongd

or land world of -- trump white house and supportive of the president and this administration. but he has a really tough job. and not made easier by, you know, social media and tweets and daily stories, hour by hour stories. so it's a great book. it's called political and personal. what else you got coming up? >> what else do we have? we have a few other books sort of leaning into the midterms because, of course, this is not a presidential election year but it's an election year, and so we like to make sure that we're talking about the things that we hope our audience is talking about. our marketplace interested in. so we have a book called fraud. and it's about election meddling in election. and , of course, as and that has been a constant question an issue ever since the 2016 election was there meddling from outside from inside -- who was doing what?

and so we have a team actually of reporters who wrote this book it's the same team of reporters who are bachelor's degree the clinton cashbook with a huge best selling book a few years ago and they're looking at, you know -- what's going on and behind scenes with elections and whether or not frankly we have trust the integrity of election. in this country and there's some pretty scary things that they uncover. so that's coming up this fall. we actually also have books call erasing america, and it's about this trend that a lot of conservatives are really concerned about which is this sort of rewriting of history. erasing history, taking down statues, renaming streets and colleges and high schools and just -- this tendency we're seeing for

people not to examine and explore and debate and understand what happenedded in our past, and good, bad learn from all of those things. but to try to take that out of the public's square which i actually think is -- is very dangerous. i fully -- the old added -- you know, if you don't learn from history you're bound to repeat it. and so i think -- a lot of people in america but certainly on the right are concerned about that, that trend. so we're doing a book that exams that. we also have another book coming out with -- one of my favorite authors sebastian -- so he is as you no doubt remember he did a big book for us a couple of years ago called defeating jihad and now he is on fox news all of the time. he's guest hosting for sol big nationally syndicated shows and

he has a position in the white house for several months. so his profile is really elevated and he's doing a book for us this fall called why question fight and it is really about patriotism. it's about values and it's about -- the politically incorrect maybe -- position of saying -- it's okay and, in fact, it's essential. for us to be will willing to sae good guys we're fight for something good and as a country we are -- we are a force forgood in the world. and if we're afraid to say that, it will undermine all of our able to be a force for good in the world with and it also undermines really the motivation and morale of our fighting forces, all of our, you know, men and women in uniform as well as cops and firemen and people who are doing, you know, things

for public service. if we're not willing to say we're doing something good and we're proud of doing something good and we believe in it. so it's -- it's really interesting i think it is an important message and again it is sort of leaning into some of the values that i think might be thriving what happened in the midterm. >> well we're here at the publishers convention margie ross republican president in the white house how is business for a conservative publish center >> it's a great question he used to always say -- well we used to say what -- good is bad for america and what is bad for america might be good for him and by that we meant when -- we were the party we were not the party in office when a republican or a conservative wasn't in office. we, our book tended to do better. so when we thought about how do we publish in age it have president trump, we were a

little worried candidly that that might be a challenge to our books and for our audience. but you know, i think one of the benefits for a political publisher like in this administration is that people are very, very engaged in what's going on in the political landscape. people are really interested. it's become a source of entertainment as well as news. and so that's actually i think, helped make sure that our market and our audience is still engaged and still interested in -- conservative points of view and still interested in buying books and still fell a need to understand what's going on in washington and in the world and to help navigate the different issues and friends that, you know, are popping up every day and -- i think -- we know that there's a surface

of information and a opinion, and it's great to have a lot of information but it's also confusing. and i think when people are are confused, there's a great opportunity for books and authors to step in and say let me try to explain this and a let me try to put this in a frame of rearches put this in context so you know, whether it's a conservative or liberal in the white house, as long as people still need help figuring out how to -- understand and process what's going on, i think there's a place for our book. >> quick update from those in the book this summer and fall, by the way, booktv did a profile of publishing, she go to booktv.org and type in regnory book and watch that entire profile. this is booktv on c-span2. >> booktv recently visited capitol hill to ask members of congress what they're reading

this summer. what's on your summer reading list? >> i don't know if i have a list. but i can tell you what is on my night stand right now, and a it's a little awkward because it's all starting to tip over. i -- i have a tendency to take home the books that i might get here in the office and put them on a night stand to read them later and i'll do a couple of chapters here and couple of chapters here did the base at the night stand is this biggest book and that master of the senate. i've had that on my night stand for about i don't know -- half dozen years. robert cairo -- and that's a tough slog as you know but i enjoy that. i have pope francis 'encyclical on care of the common my little book on climate change there. i have -- a reflection of prayers.

i have kind of a junk beach novel i don't know who the author is -- on that, i have a book that was written by a friend called how to repair a piano bench which is kind of a -- just kind of a note a self-help but kind of a reflective one. what else do i have? on the -- night stand right now? oh, i just finished one, i just finished one by a priest in los angeles and a home for young people who have just been released from prison are kind of the the reentry. and i've got his second book that's sitting there as well. so it's kind of a random hodgepodge of what do i feel

tonight and how tired am i and it is one that i want to think about and reflect or -- save for storm? it's a big list own and by the way i have all of these supreme court opinions. i don't put those by my bedside, though. booktv wants to know what you're reading sending us summer list at booktv on twitter instagram, or on facebook. booktv on c-span2, television for serious readers. ...