as a planetary scientist, chief scientist of nasa and director of the smithsonian national air and space museum there is no other topic i find as excited the fundamental to future discoveries that will one day be highlighted in my museum as this one. all planetary science begins on earth. based on our understanding of how life arose your it requires

long-standing, stable bodies of liquid water. life evolve rapidly once conditions stabilized on the early earth which chemical signatures indicate was 3.8 billion years ago. it is highly adaptable, astro biologists found life in extreme environments like volcanic lakes, sulfur springs in the top of the stratosphere. microbes have been found under high level of radiation or consuming toxic chemicals. we find life on earth nearly everywhere we look for it. given the commonality of conditions here and elsewhere in the solar system is highly unlikely that life is unique to our planet. we know the building blocks, amino acids, are ubiquitous in the solar system, found in comets, asteroids and interstellar clouds. the next step is to identify environments habitable to microbial life like those on the early earth with liquid water, a source of nutrients and a source of energy.

within the icy moons of the outer solar system we have found subsurface oceans, jupiter's moon europa and saturn afternoon angela does have liquid water oceans that have likely been stable for over 1 billion years. these oceans i likely enriched by volcanic eruptions from the moon's rocky inner core, a possible source for nutrients and energy. both moons bent their oceans into space in guys alike eruptions and could easily be sampled by spacecraft without landing. cassini found the water to contain salt, silica and organic molecules all pointing to a habitable environment. that sample may have contained signs of microbial life the casino instrument were not designed to detect them. we need to go back to enchiladas and europa with better instruments. how will we know life when we see it? for years of peer-reviewed theoretical research, lab and field work, the astrobiology

community has developed something called the latter of life which lays out what to measure and how to measure it. the latter begins with a habitable environment, with metabolism and ultimately darwinian evolution. thanks to decades of nasa spacecraft missions we know how to take the next step in the search for life at europa, angelus and of course mars and eventually titan. 3.8 billion years ago around the same time life he rose on earth a significant portion of mars was covered in water. mars remained wet for 500 million years before it lost its magnetic field, and conditions became similar to what we see today, a cold, dusty, dry surface bombarded by solar and cosmic radiation. of life emerged on mars during its wet early earthlike period, microorganisms should be present in surface rocks. that is why astronauts, not just the orbiters, landers and

rovers that have gotten us to this point, are required. biologists, geologists and chemists could do more than identify evidence of past life on mars, they could study its variation, complexity and relationship to life on earth much more effectively than our robotic emissaries. nasa could put humans in orbit around mars by 2033 and down to the surface later in the decade. it is completely feasible and affordable if the agency focuses on the technologies required. putting humans on mars by 2038, 20 years from now is not nearly as audacious as landing on the moon in eight short years, task the united states accomplished nearly 50 years ago. nasa has the infrastructure and commercial partners and scientific and technical expertise as we demonstrate every day with research groups like those at air and space and the smithsonian astrophysical

observatory, the problem is well scoped and study, we only need to accept the challenge. putting aside the amazing scientific and technological dividends of a mars shot, consider the incalculable political, cultural and historical benefits to this nation that came from the moon shots of the apollo program. this is another extremely exciting moment in human history. we know where to look and how to look. we have the technology to determine if life has evolved elsewhere in the solar system and can easily do so within the next two decades. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> i think chairman cruz, ranking member scott keeter markey and others for the opportunity to testify. i am a professor of astronomy at princeton university and managing director of the institute of new york. my spoken remarks will focus on nasa astrophysics but my

remarks discuss the broader space science program and with the chairman's permission i request my written remarks be made part of the record. a multigenerational program of exploring and studying space is the modern version of the construction of the great cathedrals of europe. many of nasa's most important activities from sending humans to mars to study of extrasolar planets to understanding the cosmos are fundamentally small projects. and cosmology, we have learned our universe is remarkably simple and remarkably strange. nearly a century ago doctor edwin hubble working at mount wilson observatory began a program of measuring the size and shape of the universe. today bubble space telescope takes measurements of the microwave background to continue this program. of the past two decades we have learned a simple model with only 5 parameters, the age of

the universe, the density of atoms, the density of matter, the properties of the initial relations describe all the basic properties of the universe. while successful this implies atoms, the stuff that makes us up, it makes only 5% of the universe. most of the universe is made of dark matter and dark energy. we don't know what makes up most of the universe. understanding dark energy is one of the most compelling problems in physics. both europe and china are leading missions to study dark energy. when i was in beijing last year i was impressed by china's plan to launch a large space telescope off of its space station with a primary focus on studying dark energy. this telescope will have the world's largest space camera and use chinese military technology. fortunately nasa's movement forward with the premier dark energy mission, the top space project in the 2010 astronomy

survey. it will measure the expansion rate of the universe to unprecedented precision. meeting all the technological requirements is on schedule for 2025 launch. astronomers have learned the solar system is far from unique. using observations from the kepler spacecraft, ground-based and therefore they discovered thousands of xo planets revealing diversity of planetary architectures and diversity of planetary systems. shakespeare's line there are more things in heaven and earth, horatio than are dreamt of in your philosophy is perhaps our best guide as we contemplate whether there is life elsewhere in the milky way. as the exploration of the cosmos has given telescope designed for the past century the study of xo planets and search for life beyond our solar system will likely shape the telescopes of the coming century. nasa's test mission which was

launched in april should reveal many nearby transiting planets. the james webb space telescope will be able to characterize the atmosphere of some of these planets. the corona graph is poised to be the next step in xo planet characterization. the corona graph should be 1000 times more sensitive than previous corona graphs aboard hubble and james webb space telescope. it will only be able to interject the planets around nearby stars but will be the steppingstone to developing technology for the next generation of data observatories. understanding planet automation requires using a wide range of observational approaches within our own solar system, comets, asteroids, radio and infrared observations, extrasolar planetary systems information and complete the census with its microlensing programs. thousands of planets in the outer regions of the solar system.

these large projects are challenging and record require perseverance. the delays are frustrating to all of us but the report was painful to read at times. i believe jw st will not only be a transformative astronomical territory but a flagship of all of nasa and the success of this incredibly complex engineering project will be a source of national pride and a symbol of us technical prowess. since jw st is a priority, these costs should be spread across the agency borne entirely by astrophysics, a devastating effect on future missions and scientific programs. despite these challenges this is as an incredibly exciting time in astrophysics, nasa satellite have enabled discovery of xo planets, detecting optimal counterparts whose gravitational waves of travel billions of light years and tracing dark matter and dark energy. most importantly each of these

discoveries raises new questions that future satellite missions will address and use to come. the upcoming national academy of science survey will provide an opportunity to outline a new vision for the coming decade. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you. doctor seger. >> chairman cruz, ranking member markey, and committee members, thank you for the opportunity to be here today. i open with a quote from one of our founding fathers, john adams, astronomers tell us with good reason that not only all the planets and satellites in our solar system but all the worlds that revolve around the stars are inhabited. they believe there was life everywhere. we don't have evidence for life beyond earth but we are the first generation with the capability to find it.

we know stars are sons, we know of thousands of planets orbiting other stars called xo planets. we heard from other witnesses we have a growing list of bodies with evidence of subsurface liquid water including mars, europa, and to send others and because water is required for all life as we know these bodies might be able to support life. we heard from other witnesses that the new planet hunting mission launched on august 18th, started science operations july 21st and next week in august it will be delivering the first science data to earth. my team is ready to go and i thought you might appreciate knowing that finding xo planets today is standard operation, standard operating procedure. this aims to discover the best plan is to follow up with the web telescope and the large collecting area, infrared community, make it suitable to observe xo planet atmospheres. i went you to know despite the

delays the xo planet community is tremendously enthusiastic because webb will provide our first capability to study xo planets in the search for life. web will observe a small number of fries xo planets looking at their atmospheres or gases that might be attributed to life. on earth oxygen is the best example because without plants and bacteria our planet would have no oxygen. the plan is the test the combination is not like earth or our son. it is limited to planets orbiting red door stars because it is easier to study planets around small stars relevant and large stars like our sun. these planets may be very different from earth because the regular stars give off giant burst of energy, flares and ultraviolet radiation that would frequently bake the planet at surface. we had an event like this in the 1850s and we are worried it may happen again because of the power grid but on these planets it will be happening daily. it would -- we humans cannot

tolerate it because it would ruin electronic like cell phones, it destabilize the power grid and destroy our biological cells but we are hopeful life that evolved there would be naturally adapted to those conditions so the goal is to find a true earth when, one orbiting a star like our son that we can understand in the context of the search for life and the huge challenge is an earthlike xo planet is next to a big massive bright star like the sun and the difference in brightness between the two is one part in 10 billion so we need a way to block out the starlight to see the planet directly. the first corona graph instrument is the first high contrast space-based corona graph which blocks starlight to study xo planets. the technology demonstration, won't be able to reach down to find other planets like earth, it can study a dozen giant xo planets known to exist.

it is critical to do this technology demonstration, for large nasa missions, more ambitious missions under study. we have a technique to reach down to fighters with a modest sized telescope, giant specially shaped screen tens of meters in diameter with its own spacecraft and would find information with a telescope tens of thousands of kilometers away. it does the hard work of blocking out the starlight and technical reasons behind that are why the star shade confined earth analogs even with modest sized telescopes. it builds on large radio deployable antennas. nasa has a direct effort to mature star shade technology by 2023, though it could happen sooner with more funding. it would be the first mission opportunity with the ability to discover dozens of new xo planets in the first chance we

have to find planets like earth. the concept envisioned launched shortly after to rendezvous on orbit and nasa has directed the w first project to be operational with the star shade through 2020 and later by the star shade project pending a decade will serve a recommendation. there are more details there but short on time i will move on to tell you okay, i am proud to tell you in 2010 i became a citizen of the united states of america and i came to work at mit because we are the world leader in space technology and we have some tough choices ahead of our nation is to be the first to discover signs of life beyond earth whether it is in a planet of our solar system or signs of life on a different xo planet. mister chairman and committee, this concludes my remarks, thank you for your attention and your continued support for nasa's space science missions.

>> thank you to each of the witnesses. let's start with a question to all four of you which is why should we be engaged in the search for life? why does it matter and why should that be a priority for space mission? >> i believe it is one of the big questions of all of humanity. this is how great nations move history forward. this will be one of those questions if answers that will be remembered forever because it will be a leap in not only understanding more about nature but understanding ourselves at a level we never have in the past. >> thomas gave the underlying philosophical answer which i 100% agree with. i would like to focus on when

we try to do things that are really hard like we did at the time of apollo. when you push yourself to answer tough questions, you push technology forward and when you push technology forward you push society forward, push the economy forward. trying to answer these questions, building big telescopes, sending humans to mars these are an investment in the future of our country and that is critically important. >> let me add another element which i see as a professor working with students which is this is a question that engages everyone. this is a question kids in elementary school when you go talk to the mask about and certainly something college students are engaged with. by asking this question we draw people into science and help bring in a next generation who will be part of our stem

education community. it is another one of the side benefits. many of us do this because we want to know the answer but we have benefits that come from exploring these questions. >> i will add to that a second one. most senior engineers today in space science or national defense or national security were inspired by the moon landings and now the equivalent of that is the search for life, and when we do discover it will inspire the next generation to go into technology and it takes a ton of pierce science research to come up with anything practical, things you could never invent if you set out to find something practical. irrelevant example is gps. we all rely on it. it did not come because i need a navigation system for my car. it turned out just by exploring we have unique, practical spinoffs.

>> you previously asked what is driving the acceleration of the universe, what are the properties of xo planet atmospheres? how did our galaxy and its neighbors form and evolve? what determines the architecture of xo planets? the us should be leading the world in addressing these big questions. is the united states leading the world in addressing these big questions and what do we need to do better to ensure that we are and remain the global leader? >> i think we are leading the world in addressing these questions at the moment but looking around the world i see excellence coming out of our european colleagues, the european space agency is launching a number of space science missions that are pushing the edge forward. the gaia mention is giving us insight into galactic dynamics, they are at the cutting edge in

areas like this, they are partnered in many other projects. looking east i have been impressed by the investments the chinese are making in space science. they were not significant players ten years ago. looking where they might be a decade from now if we stop investing they will be the leaders. >> i will add to that. >> the technology is finicky. >> we used to say china can copy perfectly and not innovate. that might be changing and therefore a ton of money into everything ranging from solar panel technology to nuclear power to space. we have to maintain our healthy budget for innovative science. >> this committee is working on

a new nasa authorization bill. we passed one last year and we are working on another one that i hope we will pass this year. let me ask the witnesses, what do you see as the science related priorities that are most important to be reflected in that bill? >> for me, i will put on my at as former chair of the space studies board, what we try to do with the cable survey is identify what i think are the top scientific priorities in each of the areas that nasa science mission director works. so in planetary science, the top priority to go to mars, return a sample from mars and follow-up by exploring europa.

understanding the processes of the sun and space weather. in astrophysics, completing jw st would be the current top priority. we are about to engage in the astrophysics community in our process of looking at the proposed missions and identifying the next set of priorities. we will begin by thinking about what are the key driving questions? the search for life will be one. others will include understanding the processes of galaxy formation, star formation and emergence of structure. in earth science, space, markey mentioned understanding the earth, watching the changing environment is another key part of nasa's mission.

>> chairman cruz's remarks started with the greeks and the planet and i think a priority should be finding a true earth when orbiting a nearby sun like star and that is a hard problem. one part in 10 billion. it is something america is leading the way. the star shade is not being developed by any other country. >> we want to search for faraway planets but also make sure we do our work on earth correctly and nasa has been a leader in climate science, helping us to understand where we live and gives us the most up-to-date data and projections with missions such as oc 02 and grace. associate administrator thomas zurburchen, is nasa's earth science research important to understanding threats like

climate science? >> the earth science program is an important program for the nation. the earth science program that we have is very strong. we have an increasing number, was 17. and several in development and i do believe the very important program, unique program complementary to other efforts are going on, very important for nasa and the nation. >> will you make a commitment to this committee that earth science will remain a priority for nasa in the years ahead? >> earth science as aquila of nasa has been with us from the beginning and i will make a commitment that we will implement everything, the program being appropriated

here, the earth science program. >> let's go down and have each one of you give us an example of how deep space exploration relates to or helps us back on earth. give us an example, we have gps even to us as an example from earlier space exploration. how does it relate in the 21st century to each of us in terms of the breakthroughs that are possible? >> one of my favorite examples is the issue of climate, how do we understand a planet's climate. when you put in the context of looking at venus, mars, saturn's moon titan, we have other bodies in the solar system with varying amounts of carbon dioxide, different greenhouse gases. by understanding the climates of not just earth but being

able to compare the climates of earth to other planets has helped us to understand what is happening here. we first identified the ozone hole on earth after a scientist looking at venus came back and looked at the earth and that is how the program was first identified. >> that is how mario did that? interesting. >> another example that comes to mind is studying ice planets and looking at glaciers. looking at the same physics, the remote sensing technologies, isat 2 is launching in september. remote sensing technologies, visiting planets in our own solar system, and one of the things we see often, we don't

understand fully what is going on. we understand the earth much better, we understood processes on the earth, by observing things on venus, on mars and elsewhere. when we look at extrasolar planetary systems. we see our solar system is one example of many. and understanding those visible processes makes us rethink the way we think about the earth. >> many people get mris or other scans in astronomy. we have to do the same thing, process data, medical imaging can make a big leap forward. another brief one, my team at mit and the jet propulsion lab, we built a small telescope in space to find planets.

what it does is point precisely, more precisely than any time in its mass category, his legacy to find xo planets, probably not. and optical communication to pack more information and radio waves and where it will be used. >> something i have been involved with, from developing space technology including electronics that were developed to study environmental conditions on mars, and prevent discharges from happening and many others. so many we could talk to you for hours. >> senator hassan. >> thank you for holding this hearing. it is a pleasure to see you all.

a warm welcome, a brown alumnus, thank you. i'm glad the chair recognized you as the first woman director of the museum. it is important for girls and young women to see women leading science, having a 50/50 panel is a nice visual. i would like to touch with thomas zurburchen on space weather. the institute for the study of earth oceans and space in new hampshire, a world renowned expert on space weather. a research group that studies cosmic plasmas from the senate corona to interplanetary space to earth's a parameter using experimental modeling techniques. this will enhance our understanding of potential threat space weather can present to earth among other

unique discoveries. that is why investing in space weather research is so critical. is nasa providing the resources necessary to permit the national space weather action plan and national space weather strategy. >> we have started with the last two or three years of investments, to implement these recommendations, funded at the level that initially foreseen and a number of discussions that were happening across agencies. and space weather data from collaboration, unique collaboration between nasa and noaa that was initially foreseen, the discussion we are having, and come up with full implementation of this action

plan. we are on the way. could we go in faster? probably. >> nasa funds science mission based on priorities set by the national academies of science which makes a lot of sense but the applied reasons to fund space weather research. how should nasa oh about balancing science priorities on the one hand and national needs on the other when determining. >> one that i think about a lot in the context of earth science, planetary science, these objects are hurtling through space and space weather. the entire community is deeply embracing space weather and the reason i am saying that is if

you have the guiding document of the space weather, an important part of the entire program and has a specific set of recommendations we are following at the same level as the others. what we are doing in this case is whenever we get such guidance from the science communities implement that with all the constraints and overarching policy guidance we are getting from here. >> striking that balance, we don't have a good answer for you. we are done by the cable studies and you are right that it is assigned protocol not a national need-based priority. >> i think there will be another helio physics the cable coming up reasonably soon and having been involved in the process, wings like if nasa instructs the academy to await

those priorities that is part of the process. >> i would add nasa has an applied science area where they are doing critical work to support farmers with crop information and that balance is important and critical in the earth sciences. this is top of mind. >> i just wanted to touch briefly with you, maybe we can follow up in writing but i have seen your remarks recently on the importance of diversifying the workforces that make all of these critical scientific achievements possible. can you comment on how important it is that we invest in our nation's children throughout their early education as well as collegiate and postgraduate studies to ensure we have a pipeline of people like the four of you who can carry on this important research and greater strides for american space expiration? >> if we don't focus on

increasing diversity in science, technology, engineering and math we are doing a disservice to our country because we are not tapping into the talent of our population. to meet is not just something nice to do but something we have to do and something we focus on at the smithsonian and that is one of the things i hope to do at air and space, focus on telling diverse stories as we do across the smithsonian to inspire that next-generation to be the innovator. >> thank you, mister chair. >> senator peters. >> thank you for the discussion. i want to thank you for bringing up the space weather issue. the university of michigan folks are very involved as well and some of the panels, we passed a bill i worked on with senator gardner, the space weather research and forecasting apps which passed the senate twice, just came out of the house committee recently.

it was weakened as it came out of the house but we hope to strengthen that and get everybody on the same page when it comes to forecasting these weather events which can be extreme. i will ask you to talk about that. my understanding is our space weather forecasting abilities are similar to our abilities to forecast hurricanes in the 1930s which was not that great. we have gotten a whole lot better but if we see an event like you mentioned, lloyd's of london estimated in excess of the trillion dollar impact on our economy. this is significant. we have not been reacting quick enough. to make sure this is not just science but homeland security and defense and issues related to it but tell us why it is so important that we get going on making sure we have space weather capability? >> i'm not an expert on space weather forecasting. i see the carrington event like

the earthquake in san francisco or los angeles, we are waiting for the big one and when it comes it is not just space weather forecasting but how to protect our satellite and power grid. >> anybody else? thomas zurburchen? >> space weather is one of those elements of our research program like your esteemed faculty members would say the same thing. when i did my grad school it was not as prevalent as we are thinking about today and the simple reason for that is we are more dependent on space then we were 20 or 30 years ago. this is becoming much more important. we have made strides. are we going at maximum speed possible? probably not. we are seeking to do the best if we look at the 2019 increase in some areas that we are requesting to actually accelerate some of the work under consideration in this

building and others, we seek to respond to the desire you are talking about because we see the importance in a direct fashion. >> not a question of if we have a big event but when. we are past due for that event and my understanding is if you see a blackout of the grid and the big transformers the control that are burned out a result of that you can see outages for 6 months to a year. folks who may read the transcript of this hearing think of new york city without power for one year, that would be catastrophic for our country. this is an investment we need to make in a thoughtful way. >> back to the question of what practical benefits out of space expiration, this may be the best example. >> you mentioned the life on mars, the possibility for that. you said you are looking at water-based life, for 500 million years. that seems like a fairly short time given how long it took on

earth. why are you confident that is enough time we might find something? >> life arose here on earth when condition is stabilized. the first several hundred million years on earth conditions were hostile. as soon as conditions stabilize within 100 million years or so. we are confident the first microbial -- microbial life evolved on earth. life remained in the oceans over 1 billion years and it took well over 1 billion years for life to gain complexity. that is why i am optimistic life did evolve on mars. i'm not optimistic it got very complex. we are talking about finding fossil microbes, single celled organisms, blue-green algae, so hard to find and that is why i think it will take humans on the planet to find this evidence of past life and finding one sample is not good

enough. you need multiple samples to understand the diversity. >> you brought up finding complex life, we are intrigued by the idea there might be civilizations out there that can communicate with us. some argue that we should have already found that if it exists and the fact that the earth is, what, 4 billion years old, the universe is 14 billion, you could conceivably have civilizations that have been in existence for 1 billion years, they would be very advanced, think about how much advancement we have had. are we confidently are searching in the right way for civilizations that may be so far advanced and may not be communicating? how do we know that? a broad philosophical question but one that we have to be thinking about if we are putting resources into the most intriguing question of life on another planet. >> we are heading down the right path, to build upon while we are looking for xo planets

around other stars we are trying to understand the nature and variety of life that might have evolved in our own solar system. once we start realizing how common life is in this solar system, it gives us a better basis and once we gain data on xo planets it gives the basis for how to think about how likely is complex life and we need more data and the way we are approaching it is absolutely correct. >> thank you. we will do a few more questions. virginia foxx, the james webb space telescope, successor to the hubble space telescope is meant to revolutionize the world's understanding of planets and star formation. the telescope was initially expected to launch in 2007

what explains that incredible increase in cost and delay in deployment? >> that is the question i'm asking myself and my team, but we have concluded already. the first success of optimism, innovators need to be more optimistic, how complex the challenge is, but excessive optimism trapping you into the past, and as a leader and

manager, i want to build mechanisms, that david talked about to get our arms around, with new technologies. every new technology is hard to guess how long it takes, much harder. not 10 times harder. technologies interact with each other. and technologies are there, and lock in costs, the thing that leads to relatives has to do

with closing off at the integration and test level that we are having and what we are finding -- challenges related to just doing the work for the impact of human errors that led to increases and costs, the processes to make sure our processes are absolutely clear and we understand the culture of the workforce in many places where this happens, not just -- the entire contract to communities. the lessons we learn from that. >> have these massive cost overruns cause nasa to reassess the effectiveness of cost plus contracting for big projects like this? >> yes, we are talking about

different types of contracting in a variety of ways. new innovative projects of the type nobody has ever done. it will be very hard to get a fixed price contract from a company. having been a board member of some of these companies you would want to understand why someone wants to do that. basically for us it is a matter of trying to understand where the right balance is which protect the government from new learnings and we have some of these spikes, contracts, in some cases the company may regret that. in some cases that is a good thing, we hope. the cost plus contract allows us to manage as we go forward. as we learn and kind of learn new things, to actually interact with that company and redirect them if you want towards a more optimized path.

we constantly look at the procurement vehicles we have and try to understand, receiving new ones like services contracts of the type we are using in the lunar program which is different from anything else and there is some risk with that tool because it may well be these companies may not be ready but we are looking at those. >> let me shift to a different topic, your written testimony states nasa maintains a vigorous planetary defense program which includes the near earth object observations project. as you know, earlier this year on april 15th, an asteroid named asteroid 2018 ge 3, estimated to be 150 feet in diameter, was spotted 119,500 miles from earth, a distant closer than the moon is from earth. what do you see as the greatest challenge our nation faces as

it pertains to planetary defense from asteroids? what steps need to be taken so that we don't have to rely on sending bruce willis to space to save humanity? >> i like that movie. >> me too. >> what we have done is propose we create an integrated program that takes advantage of all data sources including tests and other space factors to look for these bodies. we want to integrate that and get a real inventory out there of what is a threat for 140 m and above. there are certain parts of these data, always going to be weaker if we are observing from earth and strategic plans proposed we need to go away from earth because you can't observe things coming out of the sun because it is bright. we can't see these bodies. to get that inventory we will

have to have an asset we currently don't have that is away from the earth. once we have an inventory of this the next will focus on mitigating these threats. understand all the threats and mitigating the threats and depending on the size, the mitigation tools are different. one mission we are currently working on which is one type of mitigation, and impact so we basically ran a spacecraft into a body like this to give it a bump, in a target, bring it out of the collision so to say. those challenges focus on a propose to focus on this integrative program. >> last question. in addition to nasa's incredible leadership on space exploration and science we have seen tremendous cooperation and collaboration with the private sector.

can and should nasa be doing more to utilize commercial partners and utilize private capital as it pertains to the agency's science priorities? >> why don't i start with that answer? we are continually assessing this. the way we are doing it is to run experiments. for example, we are closing, close to finishing commercial data from constellation, a small spacecraft that would provide a new way of getting data to the earth science community in ways that don't build the spacecraft. companies may be better, cheaper at building some of the spacecraft, not all data but some data, the service contracts of the type we are using with lunar and several others, hosting payloads on

commercial spacecraft, we have three currently in the program so each have a variety of experiments like that to see what is there and our commitment is to continually do that to make sure we can offload things the private sector can do to the private sector. it is not our intent ever to compete with the private sector. our intent is to grow that sector and benefit from positive partnerships to offload things that are possible there so we can focus on the leading edge of the type that sara seager and others talked about. >> you talk about planet labs. the innovation is in private commercial industry, they can afford to take risks nasa cannot. it is the way forward. >> the ecosystem of partners has gotten bigger. it is not just the aerospace companies but areas like

robotics. 20 years ago i suspect nasa represented a significant fraction of all work in robotics. today it is a tiny fraction with enormous amount of money going to things like self driving cars and things in factories. there is an opportunity for nasa to take advantage of this, to partner not only with boeing and space x and many small companies that are growing in sectors like robotics, computer science, machine learning and so on. >> it is important for nasa to stay focused on what only nasa can do. that hinges on building the telescope, focusing on making sure we understand this planet and getting humans to mars. >> senator markey. >> doctor sara seager, i want to talk about nasa's mission prioritization process. we only have so much money, there are many missions.

are you satisfied with the prioritization process? >> it is a question worth asking to everybody. we have the cable surveys. >> let's start with you. you are from massachusetts, i thought i would start with you. i want to hear from each of the rest of the witnesses as well. >> you have heard many times how the witnesses always go back to the decatur survey. it is a structure we are forced to abide by. i went to say that any institution, any kind of structure around for more than half a century should be reviewed to see if it is still effective. it is time to take a better look at it. there are many areas, room for improvement which i won't go into now. >> give us one example of improvement. >> i will give you one. in many areas of space science we have the james webb space telescope.

the whole community field if they don't have one mission, they are affected by the cable survey. what this means is the community wants to put forward missions that are very complicated like ten new technologies. maturity in space technology, more focused missions a big missions but not do everything in one place and can't do that in the current formulation of the survey. this other comment about younger people not knowing, sometimes young people the first use insta grams and these things but the way the hierarchy of the survey, the top panel, or vote the same way the new generation would. >> the kid who came up -- i school kid from massachusetts.

>> it is an effective way of making prioritization is a process that can and is being improved. the academy responding to a nasa request looked at the cable process as a whole, one advantage of doing things many times for multiple communities, astrophysics, planetary science, you can look across different communities and see when did it work best. one of the mistakes that have been made in the past is we did not properly study and cost something before recommendations were made. if we go back in time james webb will be great but we would have preferred to build a 4 m

james webb space telescope that would have launched for less money a decade ago and do other things. one of the lessons learned is missions go into the decatur survey don't go in as vague ideas like power point. they are studied beforehand. one of the investments leading up to 2020 decade old, in other fields, when they are prioritized, we know what we are looking at and this is a cost-benefit analysis and we need to have a preliminary understanding of costs. >> i was involved in the last two decade-olds and chief scientist at nasa watch going forward. i saw the process being hugely reviewed and given a lot of thought how to improve it. it is an important and strong

process that needs to be adhered to. the best science to come forward, not the person who shouts loudest or has the most connections, that allows the us to retain their positions leading. >> how do you correct that? people who have a stake in the biggest project. >> i'm glad i'm not in charge of science prioritization. and the framing activity involves many voices in different ways.

and a successful activity. it like every human endeavor, always questions, and should go forward. i resonate with what sara seager's comments are, it is important that in these panels, diverse set of opinions are being listened to. that is where good decisions come from with different priorities, some that have been in the private sector and understand that interface. some of this, i agree with her, continually whether we are doing it the right way and i don't know how i would do the job without it. >> thank you for your service to the country and the planet, thank you.

>> i think each of the witnesses, this hearing was helpful and productive and your expertise is what made it so. the hearing record will remain open for the next two weeks, during that time senators are asked to submit questions for the record and witnesses upon receipt, you respond with written answers as soon as possible and with that, this hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations]

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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> we are live on c-span2 as ivanka trump, daughter and advisor two president trump,

discusses workforce issues at an event hosted by axios. she will be interviewed by mike allen who will first have conversation with mark weinberger, the global chair and ceo of ernst & young which is a multinational professional services firm. this should start shortly live here on c-span2. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

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♪ >> and him him ivanka trump, the daughter and advisor to president trump will be discussing workforce issues at this event hosted by axios your live coverage on c-span2. while we have a moment to chile but some of the other programs coming up today on the c-span networks, right after this senator bob casey was speaking at the annual aviation safety forum live at 8:50 a.m. eastern. more from the conference live at 12:15 as the federal aviation administration acting administrator will be speaking. also tonight president trump will be holding a rally in wilkes-barre pennsylvania in

support of congressman lubar metal reelection bid. you can watch it online that c-span.org or listen with the free c-span radio app. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats. the program is about to begin. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> we are waiting to hear live from ivanka trump, the daughter and invites her to president trump. she will be talked about workforce issues at this event which is hosted by axios. she will be interviewed by mike allen. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats. the program is about to begin. [inaudible conversations]

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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> ladies and gentlemen, use

#axios360 on twitter and instagram. and now please turn your attention to the stage, our program is about to begin. >> one big thing you need to know, this is just the beginning. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> the only thing that cuts through his information of value. ♪ >> as a global community we're facing so many challenges and we need to bring innovative ideas to life as fast as possible to address them. we can connect money and capital to innovative ideas. one way is for a bank to lend

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