>> we want to know what you're reading, send us your summer reading list at c-span on twitter, instagram or on facebook. book tv on c-span2:television for serious readers . >> tv is on twitter and facebook and we want to hear from you.we us, twitter.com last tv or post a comment on her facebook page, facebook.com last tv. >> good evening everybody. >> we've got to try it one more time. i know you have more energy than, good evening everybody. the energy we saw when you came in. my name is george, program

director on behalf of all of us, thank you for coming to a very interesting program tonight with michael chertoff, you're going to learn a lot and we hope you all have a lot of questions to submit. we take a moment to turn off your cell phone, any other noisemaking devices. while you're doing that let me tell you about a couple other san francisco programs. august 21 janet napolitano, also secretary of homeland security will be in conversation with disaster expert lisa jones on reducing our risks for earthquakes, fires and other environmental threats and it should be an interesting program. on august 30th the israel will be here to talk about guns, politics and the future of the democratic party. that program will be moderated by noah casher who is a former representative

under secretary of state for arms control and a member of the commonwealth board of governors and finally september 5, tim pinker will be with us to talk about science and humanism. he's always interesting. if this you are not a member, now is a good time to join. are you enjoying our new building? we feel lucky to be here. it's a great time to see many of our events. if you join, you will be the first to know when we have guests like april ryan was coming in the fall and the celebrity chef joscandres. there is a gentleman in the back , not that he's moneyball but raise your hand, there is. you won't talk about moneyball but he will save you money on great memberships and he will tell you all the great details about the commonwealth fund.

let me tell you about the question cars on your seat, collected during the program and brought to our moderator. we want to remind everyone that copies of secretary chertoff's book are in the lobby and he will sign them there after the program. we want to mention the commonwealth is a nonpartisan organization and our speakers would like to make their remarks without interruption. now give a warm welcome to michael chertoff and ellen tauscher. [applause] >> good evening and welcome to the commonwealth club. i am ellen tauscher, undersecretary for arms control and international security, member of congress and member of the commonwealth club board of governors and i'm your moderator for tonight's program. it's now my pleasure to introduce tonight's guest, the honorable michael chertoff, director of security under george hw bush

and author of the terrific new book excluding data: reclaiming our cyber security in the digital age. as secretary of the us department of homeland security from 2005 two 2009, michael chertoff led the country in blocking would be terrorists and before heading up the department secretary chertoff served as a federal judge in the court of appeals for the third circuit. currently as cofounder and executive chairman of the chertoff group he provides high-level strategic counsel to corporate and government leaders on a broad range of security issues. today we will discuss secretary chertoff's belief that the growth of the internet has made our greatest threats not physical but digital. we welcome secretary chertoff . [applause]

>> i want to say when i saw the gavel i thought wow, i haven't had a capital since i was a joint. i felt like banging it a little bit. when you're onthe court , you don't have to use a gavel. >> i used use a gavel when i preside over the house when nancy was the speaker and it was five times the size of this and the trick really is that you don't bang the gavel. you go like this. so, it's only effective if you have to look that my mother taught me which can make lots wife turn into a pillar of salt. let's get into our conversation. this is really a great book , exploding data and i was interested in not only because of the world we all live in, is your data safe?

is facebook building communities or are they just selling your data? they had the largest stock decline in the world today so i approached the book and wonder, this is really one of these technical, sometimes ponderous subjects. you've done a great job of weeding in stories though people can understand what exactly is happening and why this is such an important source subject so i dogeared a bunch of pages and i wanted to go through. you put the world into three types of data. data1.0, 2.0 and data 3.0 . why do you talk a little bit about how you organized this so people can approach it and i hope everybody will take this home and spend sometime with it . >> i was trying in part to

describe the fact that the technology really outstrips the architecture of our laws and policies and there comes a point where you can't shove it into the old architecture anymore. you've got to say we've got to go back to the drawing board and i thought about when has this happened before and i went back to the founding of the country and back even before that to england, back in the last millennium when we first began to have a right to privacy which really became the fourth amendment and it was all about property, about every person's home is their castle and all the discussion about your right to privacy is about who could come into your house, take your stuff and look at it . but that's where i call one point now, the way we generated data was we talked, we wrote things down on paper. that was basically it. then in the 19th century, you wound up with photography and

telepathy and for thefirst time we were generating data not face-to-face for in handwriting or typing , and needless to say, as soon as those technologies became widespread, issues came up about whether let's say the government could make use of them. so for example in photography, there is a famous case called roe versus rochester folding box company where a young woman, her boyfriend took her picture and then without her consent gave it to a flour milling company that put her photograph on the side of all of his bags of flour so she got upset and she sued. and her argument was it invaded her, caused her distress by using her image to promote something she didn't want to report and the reaction of the court was to go back to 1.0 which was no one invaded your house, you agreed to the photograph being taken and you're not being defamed so it's not liable so you don't have any

claim. but eventually what the court said is there something about using your image or commercial purposes that if's is something you ought to have something some right to control though they created misappropriation. another example, why? unless you traded the whole where the premises that you were wiretapping so there was a technical trespass, if you were just on the wires owned by the phone company or to the attitude you don't have any privacy rights, this is competition intercepted outside your property but in the case, the court said we're missing something. there's no much being done on the telephone we need to change the way we protect i lay these out that the law does change but it often requires a tipping point where finally the courts or congress or both say we've

got to go back to the drawing board and understand what it is we are trying to protect. >> so i think that is very interesting analogy to how to think about this but talk about angry birds. angry birds is now reaching through into data 3.0. >> what's happening is as we engage with any kind , is now often, in a very kind of opaque fashion collecting data about where we are going , other things we're doing with our device, if we are using the same device to play a game or use an app and we're not always aware of what they're doing or they make it to writing a 60 page disclosure statement that makes your house buying contract look like a comic book, you're not going to read it and then even more challenging is you is with respect to some applications,

you don't really have a choice because effectively they are a monopoly and if you want to participate in the interchange, you either surrender your data are all purposes or you don't play and i think that's also an issue which i talk about in the book that we have to start tocome to grips with . >> the other thing i found that you highlight that causes people to stop and think is i think most know about moore's law which was developed by the founder of intel which effectively said every two years profit size will double and then immediately everybody will move into that space and then two more years later. then you said that the interesting part about this is people don't understand that there was a simultaneous growth of storage capacity. so the idea that everything you do lives on forever,

really i think people don't understand. >> there were two developments that i think have, three developments that have transformed the way people think about even how their publicly generated data is used. one is storage capacity, we cannot store everything forever and in the old days, let's say you do something in public and people take a photograph or whatever but in the end , it would get lost or would be distributed. there wasn't the ability to make a lot of use out of it. that's changed. but there's a second development. storage would be worth it if you can't really analyze where you store. it's like that scene from the movie invaders of the lost ark or raiders of the lost ark we're in the end they take the art and put in some big government warehouse with 10,000 boxes and you know it will never be seen again and it allows you to make use of this data don't get lost. it actually can get operationalized and the third thing is that the clouds were

the related thing about selling data. you might think that if a single individual records you , takes a photograph and you go to the store and buy your rosaries, there's data being collected but it's all separate in separate documents. what you're not necessarily focused on is if it's all uploaded to the cloud, the cloud provider may very well have the ability to scan all the data that comes in from all the different sources and identify things about you. or it can be sold to a data broker who will go out and harvest from various different sources all the data about you all of a sudden this definitely stored and analyzed data from all these different collection devices gets merged together and now they become available for analytical purposes to whoever buys them or operates that and i think that's where it takes even what goes on in

public and it makes it very different now than it would have been let's say 30 years ago when he's in public were exposed but they had a short shelf life and your ability to be used was really limited by time and space. >> that brings us to something that really bothered me i'm sure many people is that it's not only the data analytics of being able to aggregate a bunch of data and then analyze it and keep it forever. it's the weapon icing of data. and that's the capricious side of all the developments that have happened which have goods to them. we can process things out in hospitals much more quickly from the brain injuries. we have the ability to use fast computers to begin to look atsomeone who's been injured within hours and decide what to do it for something that even just a few years ago , they perhaps

couldn't be helpedbecause by the time the information went through the computer , they were either too far gone or couldn't be helped. so there's a lot of good things about data but at the same time there's the whole weaponization of it typing bothers a lot of people. you talk about safe notes, talk about that. >> we had these experiences in the last couple years or discussion about what the used to be called the information operations and active measures russians although i think there are other countries as well use variations and this is the use of media in order to propagate stories that are exaggerated or false or one-sided order to drive behavior of social discord and even hatred. i have to say in preface, this idea is not new. if you go back 100 years in

the comintern when thesoviet union existed, they had a propaganda machine . the tools were very primitive and they were not particularly skilled but the idea of using propaganda were trying to persuade people or manipulate them is not a new idea. here's what's changed. the media is much more ubiquitous. the idea to target susceptible groups in a very efficient way allows the people who try to have active measuresto be much more productive in terms of what they want to do . it's often difficult to know who's conveying the meaning and one of the issues that the resin is people masquerading as your friend or pretending to be americans when they are russians or bus acting as if they are human or troll forms like the internet association in russia pretending they are

like individuals so there's an element of pretense and fraud about who's communicating. you have to be careful with this because i believe in the first amendment and the fact that something is untrue does not necessarily mean you can ban it but at a minimum in the book i think you can certainly require people to identify themselves honestly, indicate it's a foreign government or foreign power or perhaps they can be required to identify themselves and maybe even be restricted because they can affect our elections and you can maybe do other things that signal if there's something funny about the source but i also have to say in the end it'son us to pay attention . and there are many people whose attitude is i just want to hear what makes me feel good about what i believe and they don't care. there's an educationalprocess within that is part of the response to this .

>> we have a question from someone in the audience. what do you believe data 4.0 will be and in connection with terms of service, what do you think about the ability to skip reading the terms or should there be nothing more about in versus out. >> 4.0 is hard to know, it may be a couple of the following things. artificial intelligence. the use of heat learning and the machine speed to accelerate what's being done now and to make it even more precise so that it's no longer a matter of people learning what you've done but acting on a base of what they think you're going to do. another thing is what i've called deep fakes. the ability to take video and audio, marriott together and fabricate what appeared to be completely accurate and convincing audio and video clips that are totally

fabricated. so that you become almost unable to trust what you see with your owneyes because people are manipulating it . >> after the i think this is part of what i'm suggesting in the book. the ability to protect your privacy and your freedom by holding your data is not really going to be there anymore. just as we have enough telephones, you can no longer have your conversations behind closed doors becomes aboutcontrolling the data even after it's been collected by someone . what is your right to say yes, sir no to these new setups of your data for other purposes and that's why i think here in california they just passed a law that basically says you have a right to acquire that before someone uses your data you get asked to consent and i think that is where we're going to have to go.

one of the challenges is it has to be real content so it means you have to tell in plain language what they're going to do, not 60 pages. and you have to have a real choice so if you have what is effectively a monopoly, they should at least give you the option of participating, maybe by paying a fee. but not necessarily having to wreck your data so you're not given the choice of being shut out of something entirely or having to get your data over for whatever purpose someone wants to use it. >> i think everybody wants to support local stores and people in retail but i think most of us, they use amazon a lot. i have people all over the country sending gifts, they know more about me than i want them to know. that's a benign part of it. this is kind of the good side of it. but there's a lot of other things obviously where people worry about. you talk about in the book, you talk about new laws.

using to be promulgated that can help lock some of these scenarios but part of it is educating people so they become empowered and knowwhat to ask for and know how to protect themselves . >> this is about being mindful about what you do online. i'm not totally off the grid, i don't do social media i do but i always make a decision. why am i doing this and what information am i generating. so for example, if you routinely get asked when you go to a new site can we use locational data to better send you notices, if i'm using google maps or dps yes, i give them my location because otherwise it doesn't work but for most of the things know, i'll do without the notice of what you can offer me so it's mindfulness like that. i also to be honest and

mindful of what i searched online and ifsomebody use my device. one thing i do is , maybe mixes up the algorithm but i like crossword puzzles i do a lot of online searching for crossword puzzle clues and i want to say to the machine if you can figure out what this means, good luck. >> speaking of the grid, with the grid at huge risk, why does the power system have to beconnected to the internet and maybe you can talk about data . >> we've known for some time that industrial control systems that operate real stop in the world are vulnerable. there were cases in the ukraine that the last few years the lights were gone because the russians into the control systems and as a result it resulted in false readings that caused the engineers to shut down or interfered with the operation of the system and that issue of industrial control systems security is at the core of

the biggest concern people have about cyber warfare. the short answer is a lot of this stuff should not be confined to the internet but for example, things you will have in your house, a thermostat you can remotely adjust outside the house, that's over the internet and you can understand there are engineers if you're dealing with a wide system where there are a lot ofdifferent elements in the pipeline, they want to visit each one and take a reading and see whether everything is okay. the other problem is this . often people think they are disconnected but there is some part of the system that is connected is the door to everything else. some years ago the chamber of commerce in washington got and although they had a good security system they had an open connection to a thermostat in another building and that was the entry point for a foreign nation to get into their data system.

many of these smart things, they really don't have any security. they use 85default password like 1 to 3 or they have no capacity to update or packed so the kinds of ransom where we saw recently , that becomes a problem for everything connected. >> this is another take at the fake news piece. how can government control the distribution of the news or foreign manipulation of our information systems without infringing on the first amendment? >> that's exactly right. you can't control fake news content without censoring and believe me, there are many people who would love to do that. the number one guide to sign up would be putin because the russians believe that cyber warfare includes information

they don't want to have their citizen in the sea because i'm a fundamentalist on this issue and what i say in the book is i think there things you can do without the first amendment. there is no first amendment right to me to pretend to be a pastor and go to her friends. there's no right to be a russian pretending to be an american. if you're a foreign government and you want to advocate for an election, we have laws that have been upheld prevent foreigners from making those contributions so you can do a lot about identifying the source of things and preventing the use of large-scale artificially affecting the search engine and ranking of particular things on a platform because again there's no first amendment right to promote your story by generating these things with robots but when you get a with specific

exceptions, we generally in this country say they're the right answer to false content , unless it's defamatory or fraudulent is to have more speech. europe, to be honest , they tend to go the other direction. there is a movement in europe that states certain kinds of speech to be outlawed. the speech, what you call the news. i don't know where you draw the line there and one thing in our country we are skeptical about wedding government have that kind of power and it will also create a problem where platforms won't grow because if you get punished for putting a story the germans don't like online, it could wind up on americans not getting toread it because it one in french are right .

>> we often speak a lot about educating the public about cyber security. it is the nature of the problem more education where the incentive incentive is to do what's right? >> you need both. frankly some of the worst packs have been become because somebody went out on a limb that turned out to have malware and often people don't understand how to at least make a reasonable effort to assess whether something isreal or not. in the security area as well , the institutions have to be incentivized to secure themselves. typically gets them through the legal system one way or another whether it's a law or regulation that we have with identifiable information or the court system. i think on the fake news piece, a lot of that is going to be an educational process.

the people how to quickly evaluate things and this has to start in grade school. i remember when i was a kid, television was still relatively new and there was a little bit of worry that now they have these commercials, is everyone going to believe that what's on the commercials is true and eventually your parents would tell you when you are little don't believe that, a lot of that stuff is nonsense. you're not going to grow to your adult height in two seconds if you eat wonder bread and you would wind up -- >> it was a lie? >> we have to start that educational process. >> this is another tough question. how did we not see this coming? and what were the insurmountable barriers to us not seeing this coming and since we didn't, what might we see in retrospect to get

ourselves ready for the next thing ? >> that could be a whole separate book. you've got early warning about this but for a long time i think there were a couple things that tended to have people over their eyes from the challenges. one was i think there were just fun new technologies and people were excited and also, there was a little bit of a sense that silicon valley and community were the glamour children. it was innovation, it was disruption and when i grew up, disruption and you got sent to the principal but here disruption is a positive thing but there was a little bit of we do good so we are good so you don't have to worry about us because we want to make the world better

and between that and the excitement of playing new things, we were slow to realize some of the problems and that's not new to technology. the hardest thing is to know the next thing that's going to happen.to come back to where you talked about with 4.0, issues like artificial intelligence, ace recognition , other things that might be the harbingers of new technological advances . >> ..

>> a guy who's great great great grandparents came off the mayflower. >> the end i guess the idea of the bill of rights and the constitution and if you think about it but there is so much

about the world today thinking of terms of weapon i or tribalism. my dad passed away a few years ago but he wouldn't watch anything but msnbc he was a democrat and wanted people to reinforce what he no that my mom i had her watch fox news once a week to know what was going on as a reliable source that tune it together those communities in the way people have around, how do we get ourselves back to send a simple premise or ideal to reinforce them with our children and in different generations but also make sure

we don't touch with what is with us like immigrants or diversity? you make a lot of people talk about this question. my wife does some work in this area but it is about pushing decision-making to the lowest level you can comfortably make a decision that was national security is a federal issue but if you've been you've been through the town fans essays generally lot less dysfunctionality because now you are on the local school board but with localism and federalism.

but to pass those organizations. and with that sense of tribalism. so that this will actually form community. and that we have a lot alike. but to be misunderstood in this judge that for a lot of people that they can gravitate to those. and it becomes mutually reinforce. and that may be something that was illuminated of the national service.

and with those people that are a lot different with you. and one thing that we talked about a generation of young folks. so right after 911. and to say amen to that working with a wide variety of backgrounds and locals and they understand the human being. i am hopeful there is a generation rising that will have communities. >> i always believed and i was in congress it was a lifetime

opportunity of course military service is laudable but it could be reading to children are many different things it could be local obviously the peace corps but there should be a set of application and that sometime in your life and then everybody should want communities to thrive. so talk about propaganda and the elections what we look for in november?

>> that the russians will attempt to reflect. this isn't a single national election. and then to figure out using analytics with 30 or 50 accumulations. and then to interfere with those mechanics and then to make it and then in some years back they tried to go into the media outlets but the accurate count but the more likely issues are to undermine the turnout by doing things to

interfere with the ability and then to mess up but more than that the intensification and this is just at election time maybe attempting to torment civil disorder by encouraging right and left wing. and then even have the ability to hack into their ability to communicate. in the 60s they would embed people to generate violent with different groups.

but that was not scalable and it was crude but the scale is much greater. >> even national elections. and those who care or did not care. even inside of counties. and different communities. and increasingly in the bay area. so the idea of getting challenged when you go to both physically there is a lot of people going to the polls to get a provisional ballot. and here is the provisional

ballot. then they are pushed to the side so should we be doing something right now? this month after the election to get senses with people like you out of government and to do commissions? >> we do see the department of homeland security initially they were reluctant to get the federal government involved but involved but they are now engaging with cybersecurity and i should mention i cochair of the former secretary general of nato the transatlantic commissioner to try to bring best practices as well as awareness with some of

the lot but to the allies in north america and in europe. we are not what we need to be but at least we are moving in the right direction and make you may seen that the campaign was hacked today in the assuming the russians had done it. and looking back at the summer of 16 and then to look back with the things that are happening with the dnc e-mails. and with those e-mails but then you realize that it isn't the e-mail but it was what was on them. and the analytics of the campaign and her schedule in the polling data.

so not where you wear at on tuesday but important information. and with the trump campaign. what do you see coming up? and is it too late to react they cannot get themselves organized to even understand what happened. what do you think people should be doing? >> is not limited to online. so with the original october surprise. and the iranians held the hostages because they wanted to basically they wanted

reagan but they did not like carter to affect the election so obviously we want to be coming to was no interference with the registration process and to identify those efforts to promote those full stories and then to imagine those other things imagine a particular area. a civil disturbance. and with that ability to respond. that could have an effect on the election. and turnout becomes a big issue i know you change a lot of votes and that have an

effect. i would be on my guard for that last minute disruption at the polls are to create a disturbance of some kind. it doesn't have to be foreigners americans can do this as well make this is a good question so how do we use data to prevent gerrymandering? we have to draw a new congressional line but one year the first year of the decade we reorganize the congress to accommodate those who population in 435 members of the house. they subtract and they add

them to the mostly southern states and then we district them so that's how you use data districting and gerrymandering that is another issue. what do you think? >> with those issues of analytics that makes it easier. do you see these weird districts it looks like an animal from outer space. now they can be blocked by block. and take those in the other party and shove them in one district and then those that are favorable and it turned out not to be data.

and based on coherent geography. and with those parties enact it is called communities of interest and people move for lots of reasons, their jobs, family, but people also tend to because they find the people in a certain place to be like them. look at the colormap of red and blue it is not pixelated. because people tend to go to places where people are like them. and with that commission in

california to be in the commission to draw the district and know nothing about politics that is a good thing. because not trying to one party or the other. it has improved the situation a little bit but it is still not as good from the rest of the country. so we need the rest of the country to cooperate. how do you feel about big data in healthcare? and optimizing the data efficiency? or should we be concerned about the author raise -- authorized breach? >> with some pluses and minuses with things that could be done. and the ability to help

treat. and with that ability when they are picked up in the ambulance and those only controlling the robot arm and to basically correspond. and those rules about safeguarding private data i hope that it doesn't have restriction to have privacy and security data that is a good thing. but then you have to continue to operate if you were holding that data that's why you want to keep it separated but the other problem is what happened

not just your health data but everything? there is a story about those that are looking out type of clothing you would buy are buying a larger size you are becoming overweight and they will be sure rate. how much you are getting divorced double the two stress and that means nightmare i presented the book everything you do can result in a be four-door punishment with a credit score so i feel like credit karma will tell you what it is to get alone. everything you do, your friends are, on mine, behavior, determining if you

are a good citizen or bad citizen. as a bad yes. then that's what i worry about. when you lose your freedom. >> can trust trump to protect us what is top priority? thank you for protecting us. >> that agency they're trying to work on cybersecurity with that investigation and if you need those indictments they are detailed a lot of work went into investigating that. and then to help them manage the security and that is a

good thing too. and then to make sure there is a better job for the supply chain. and now for some of the chips and other parts of the world and to put them in critical infrastructure. most of those assets are in private hands so they have to invest and ask critical questions to their suppliers are and who is engaging on the network and with those things that and with those things that loading malicious tools. >> that are those they are

used pungently in the truth is thought that people are in the workplace by globalization and the jobs you see offshore. it is interesting with 4% of the population and we need access to the other 96 sell our goods. he actually didn't have a lot of terrorists won't -- terrorists until recently and that is attacked by the way. so what do we do with the data issues? what about companies where there are real concerns of their origins and what they are doing with the trapdoor issue? >> first of all on the technical side the u.s. has done very well. to the point a lot of countries there privacy laws

to handicap with that data localization and with a better country to fragment those breaches so we have done well found that global reach and to me on to have a global set of rules because if you have the fragmented rules you have many internet but so to recognize the countries do have an interest to protect the privacy of your citizens and what we are talking about now is with respect to countries of similar one --dash similar values how do we synchronize a way to have a common picture of what the rules are to govern data and the rules of

the road ought to be so we don't end up with conflicting situation of how we manage the data? >> that will continue to be a big thing. i do not believe in a terrorist one -- terrorist but that doesn't always respect winners and losers but the administration is correct. and to be adamant to get the intellectual property. online they use size. and from the counterintelligence for the united states government. it was a chinese company find

the technologies. and we need to make it clear and to let commerce work and it is a handicap and we will pay a pric price. >> you have an opinion. and responsible for the regulation and in with the data privacy? the make it is their effort

and the way they implement it. and then to use your data for a purpose but other than that is obvious that they have to get your permission. and with those marketing materials please click here. and then to give more control over the data but you get a service and it gives a choice. and not a fan but the children are separate category.

and i would not want to see the government regulate. but the private sector i would give it a little more leeway. that is pretty inhibiting. and then in the private sector and. and with those to drive certain stories. and then to get that story and with those algorithms i'm totally on board to put that off limits set and i honor the

first amendment. and with actual site manager you can stop that. and then and inciting people and then to get into a grayish area. but i would tread cautiously with content regulation. >> as you talk about so eloquently in the book and to make the things real there is a lot of politics doesn't seem that congress can do much so the ada we come together but

what is interesting is when mark berg testified a few weeks ago as a gift in the first five minutes he said we will adopt gdp are which is your pmr. he didn't have a choice but often we don't have an american mom but like tax or court decision. what is a push or pull? the supreme court has begun to tackle this issue. and with those court cases and 30 days 247 you have right but

in this case the volume of surveillance is so qualitatively different that we will say at this point you need the fourth of and some of the justices went further to put something on the car but some of the justices said that we are to say is the general principle with video cameras that there is a limit that you can do in public. they can do a citizens arrest so then they get into the phone because there is so much data on the phone that that

requires a warrant because it is their whole life. one month ago the supreme court dealt with the shot will address the issue to subpoena location data in the hands of the service provider. of the third party like a bank you have the right to prevent to turn over that response. and the court said there is so much vocational data to go beyond what we will normally think is a reasonable expectation we will require wind but even just to score such said he focused on the fact even when somebody has your data that you have an

interest to be protected. that justices not just a liberal one are thinking about these issues and that's a good thing. >> for this is an interesting question i will chase my best change in a little bit but personal data should monetize and how does the government monetize that transaction but how do we help people understand their data is an asset? maybe not a monetize value but a value to everyone that needs to be project -- protected by what's important. to describe your personal data but it is clear liable to

marketers or politicians those who want to assess trends and what's going on with respect to health problems and without faith or contagion. i'm not recommending people fell at that tree set up enough but that is part of the process to educate people. >> so understand that so how do we get people to understand so that it is operational? >> wet it comes to writing about is to get people to think about this but their

data is valuable and collected in ways they may not understand. but also let's talk to the legislators close in sacramento and and to do things at the state level even with congress is gridlock and once the ball is rolling that will have an effect like in california and to have broken the mold he could be an early doctorate for something like that. >> and you are with respect to getting notification so those other areas they could be early adopters. >> we have three minutes left i have a long question going into the closing but so talk

about five specific framework that can block keys problems can you go through them and give them a sense that they should advocate for? >> the talk about the need to have your data. >> so to protect against attacks on physical purity and i can that means embedding standard creates legal incentives. >> that a subset is we have become enormously defensive with other parts of the economy with bigger walls and tougher ways of doing things

with two times verification. mike we do often sustain but let's not try this at home. the government has a role to play with hyperactivity but having the private sector do that to damage innocent people. so with those certain contractors i would be very much against the idea to take matters into our own hands. >> and with fragmentation of the internet we talked about that earlier. >> we need to put rules with those other one -- overseas i recognize china and they could go in their own direction that we want to make sure we don't pay that price.

>> and then control the use of the private party individual data from data so we have been talking about. >> and then to incentivized to collaborate over shared vulnerability. >> this is the area there is a whole issue of the vulnerability equity process even in those operating systems and software there has to be a way to share that we can correct the problem before it gets out and that means you have to have a trusted relationship and the government finds something they share it with the private sector to protect all of us. >> thank you former secretary of homeland security and author of the book exploring data. everybody that's listening to us.

and to remind everybody that with the secretary will be pleased to sign books and meeting of the commonwealth club the place for you are in the know is adjourned the 17. [applause]

mac line is the american spirit that is a compilation and, it's is one of my favorite authors. and also to write a book a

while back and in the founding of america. the other is restoring healthcare coming from that think tank background 25 years before we ran for him congress and to be pressed with those ideas to have a quality healthcare system and the affordable healthcare system. and of all the books that i read this summer it is a good little book he is an excellent author and my wife is reading

all his books and also to just finish both by a guy who lives in birmingham and outstanding book and for the rest of the summer it is called if you can keep it but it is about thomas jefferson and john adams and most people understand the importance of the public adams was our second president but

that's what this book is about and with the tremendous opinion of jefferson and adams insisted that jefferson is part of the committee one that actually wrote and later in life he became estranged and then adams could not service term. not caused heat ten years after their friends began to encourage them to be reconciled with those fascinating and insightful letters that were reconciled i like to take people on private tumors of the capital mom

--dash two of the capital and is a contemporary he knew the dynamics of the relation that was his way to capture that. but the good news is they were reconciled 50 years to the day because the words were thing god but it is interesting the path that these two gentlemen took and how they come back together.

and more of the back story. >> janet napolitano is our mom -- our guest on booktv that deals the time as secretary of homeland security and the former governor and attorney general and currently the president of the university of california. so when you were secretary should dhs have been created? was that the right thing to do? >> i think it was for a variety of reasons. the most important of which

was various department spread throughout the federal government with effective communication and with that security apparatus within the department of homeland security have land borders air travel and disaster response and fema and cybersecurity and intelligence and analysis function but it does make sense for all of these functions are house. >> you were the first democratic secretary of dhs so really early on was it more than the early days? the next department, it takes

a while there 23 different agencies people say the department of defense and they had far fewer department so that will continue but i will say the work of my two predecessors laid the foundation we made a lot of progress when i was secretary i can't report on that now mac i have not met her now. >> what was your success. >> but i will mention anybody who flies a lot appreciate and also the deferred access to

childhood rifle 700,000 young people brought to this country as children the average age of six european or and to be picked up for immigration enforcement. >> what is your expertise. >> i had a lot of expertise with immigration enforcement and to see that disaster on because that is primarily to the states and local government while the governor of arizona and to have all of those but what i didn't have the international relations to

take that on and learn a lot very rapidly mac what do you wish you could have gotten done? >> the technology so people could bring the quiz and their shoes on to board the plane. now that is why we have the security measures that we do. and then with comprehensive immigration. and there is a broad common battleground that i believe is the majority acceptance and recognition we got something through the senate.

>> did your day start every day at hs with the threat assessmen assessment? >> is starting with the president's daily brief we have a daily brief prepared overnight for all those various threats around the world to be analyzed into one binder then there are 16 people who also get the president's daily brief along with the cia so the first item on the agenda would be that.

i do think that after 911 will protect americans from ever happening again. to make sure the cockpits are armed. in the notion to weapon eyes the aircraft with such a large scale lot think would be interrupted today because i think in part because of the department of homeland security to make how safe are we? what is the answer? >> i think we are safer on the risk that was present on 9/11. i believe those that we are not effectively dealing with the country but the frequency of attacks and the number of attack and that democracy

itself was attacked, we are just not coping well we need to up our game. >> i cannot let you be without talking about the president of the university of california. what is a typical week, she's been on academics or fundraising or security or other issues? >> the nation's largest public research university is ten campuses five academic centers three national laboratories there is no such thing as a typical day or just like when i was secretary of homeland security ali have work i know if i get to half of those but it is reading or combination of going to campuses or meeting the faculty looking at

the research were to see students in the family about their challenges and how to view the world. it is a wonderful and very challenging position. >> what about the technological changes coming to education. >> the biggest is the development of online education it started earlier but it turns like those outcomes were not very good. but it also happened that there is a will for online instruction to supplement or augment what happened that a university so we are making greater use hybrid classes or

the laboratory or the classroom but like the university of california i don't think we will ever have a fully online degree. that is not who we are as a research university. but i do believe there will be a greater role for online former dictator of indiana running purdue former governor of arizona ready you cow. what is the benefit to be a governor in that position? >> first of all as a governor i had higher education in the budget but in the large public university you have to deal with the legislature in the media and various chewing fees.

it is political with those constituencies and report. that is a job with some similarities. >> song of the features like ben shapiro was that handled well by the university in your view? >> overall it was. and by the first, there were protesters that off emphasis that disrupted it and he had to be for his own safety. by the time shapiro came and coming back a second time we

had a better security plan much more in hand and the events went off peacefully - are those the event you are on site or monitoring closely. >> i.c.e. a close with the campus chancellor and also the university chief of police that things are well organized with the chain of command with what the rules are for the universit university. >> this is a lot more for university president? t-mac yes. it is amazing and has gone quickly i will stick around for a while longer. yes. >> her new book how safe are

we? former governor of arizona former secretary of homeland security. thank you very. >> i just finished reading a spy among which is a spectacular true story the counterespionage buy-in history of the world had a counterintelligence for great britain but was a double agent for the soviet union and it is a terrific story about the whole world of espionage and intelligence at the house number on intelligence i take a particular interest in this kind of thing. also tell her of the father of the murders the beginning of the fbi the true story how the

osage indians were exploited and systematically murdered to gain access to their mineral rights. as of november 6 going to the 2020 presidential election we will all be treated to books of the various candidates. i have the right answer he is a colleague of mine coming into the house in the same class i did for merriman but is retiring to run for president. this is the first i am sure many of both by presidential candidates i will be reading before the next two years is up this was taken from the speech of john kennedy this is the first candidate books i will read a couple of my favorite sites hope i have a chance to read two of my favorite of all time is the name of the rose and italian

intellectual and academic who sprung onto the international scene in nearly 88 terrific book taking place in the 14th century abby and markoff baskerville is brought in to investigate allegations of heresy that before things are developed to come to the conclusion six or seven murders it is a terrific book with an international bestseller and of course my favorite book of all time to kill a mockingbird by harper be published 1950 and made into that great film 1862 starring gregory fax one of my favorite actors by the way robert dufault and his film debut.

also tender mercies was one of my favorite books but i am hoping i can get back to me to kill a mockingbird that is the seventh time reading and that is my summer reading. . . . . >>.