he professional life both of

them, elected officials i have to say -- this is a really interesting book that against pervasive 234ez a scientist cracks droulsly misinformed advocates i am hoping i am not in any of those categories we are pleased with us this evening, ladies and gentlemen please join me welcoming. [applause]. >> thank you, i think that science communications is a crossroads i think the problem is that we have drifted from is it a fact illiteracy into denialism people taylor their truth the hoax created by chinese evolvings createion to

believe all things to have you deny an enormous amount of data, the science losing its right full place as source of truth. >> so before i get into details of this i want to take a step back define science seshlt what it is it is not from edmund wilson, systematic enterprise condenseing into testable laws and theories the key word is testable, you can determine whether or not for example, mmr-- measles vaccine causes autism determined is it a fact venues how many angels can dance on head of a pin not is it a fact question not answered in signs of the venue what we do we point to hypothesis statistical analysis, a study of controls where that allows one to ice

late effects of the variable what it isn't is sciences, the body accum lateive knowledge it is the way it is thinking about approaching a problem, as we learn as we go, willing to take test books over shoulders without a backward glance get it strong wul the time science is enormously self-correcting in 1926. >> the doctor of -- a worm identified caused cancer through when he won nobel prize turned out that was dead wrong. mentioned 35 -- a portuguese neurologist created a cure for a variety of psychiatric illnesses when you the crossed atlantic ocean named was changed to lobotomy 20,000 performed, 7,000

by one man walter jackson freeman lived not far from here, and he did for about a more harm than gl than. >> he created tr heart healthy diet famous nutritionist, a group as well as united nations, he believed that the saturated fats were bad unsaturated fats good butter contained manual fats saturated fats was -- bad into margarine parkly hi hydrogenated oil. >> the harvard school public health candidacy for 250,000 here at related events caused

"time" magazine to change its cover. >> stanley, bill gates looks like but not, on right a chemist the university of utah believed if you took a palladium wire were attached to battery in heavy wood that you could see cause two small nuclear acts to fuse tomorrow largerr nucleus, recessed energy the difference was they did this room temperature the name hyphenated name was coal fusion, died a designate deserved shbothered people vie ladies semi dynamics you can't get more energy out of something than you put into it, and which is why you never see perpetual motion machine in any case we wanted to believer it around the time exxon valdez

disaster we wanted to believe there was possibility of clean limitless source of energy even though didn't make apple wit of sense, i think people are upset about this fluidity of science disconcerting. >> the force those remember chief medical officer on uss enterprise when he you had a particular set of signs he did this if you look in hand has something a triquarter would scan you up and down look at readout that is what you had there was no doubt about it, and i think, i think if you ask people today whether or not we are going to know more about science and health than now a hundred years from now people will say yes to your illness we like to believe we know everything we need to know but not true we are seduced by guru,

doesn't express that says things in certain terms launched by oprah winfrey, also assumptions and somebody like wakefield of the belief that the rubella vaccine caused autism, now 17 studies clearly shown no greater risk of getting autism but he had followers from venue to venue the path lodge optimist -- they treat him as embodied touch hem of his coat to stick to new testament analogy so now given that, who should be the persons or person who communicate science to the public i think the answer to that question is,

the people who know most about it the scientists clinicianings in that field many work against them, so, for example, the scientific many of all are trained in i give you example how this works if trying to determine whether or not masles. >> as if mmr does not cause autism you can do two things reject it to say when autism follows receipt of mmr vaccine occurs at level greater than would be expected. or you cannot reject it to say when autism follows resooest the vaccine occurs at level expected but you can never expect the no hypothesis to say you can never approve "never" that is difficult when i was a boy i

watched adventures of superman, george reeve, flew he put arms down fronted of him with interlocking thumb grip key to whole navigational experience would go to left or right cape would fly behind him would look at cities passing him below when five years old television does not lie, so i went into the backyard put a towel around miles i don't know if you saw mr. rogers movie they talk about this in movie, kids did do what i did i did from a smaller height hurt themselves i tried from very small height to fly and, you know, i was unsuccessful. that didn't progressive i don't fly i could have done it a million times only made it the more statistically unlikely you can't prove there weren't weapons of mass destruction in iraq you can say nowhere that

you looked you can't prove like never been to alaska genuine 00 alaska only a series of buildings with me not standing next to them the way this plays out in real world was evidenced by fc-- >> dan burton republican from indiana had a grant child was had autism briefed vaccines caused it brought panelists into that committee hearing including wakefield and i was on the other side, i did a epidemiologist from centers for disease control, colleen boyle she was great i think did a good as one could do trying to explain the science basically said all the evidence to date doesn't support hypothesis that mmr vaccine others cause autism didn't say what she needed to say mmr

doesn't cause autism because to him he got really angry said, so you can't tell me that mmr doesn't cause autism you don't know do you, not just waffling but like covering something up you can see see anger, while she was dedicating to signs knowing you can never say never, i think that hurt her when trying to communicate science in that venue to the -- the other thing that we are up against a begins how science is perceived scientists wore lab coat from behind thick, dark rimmed glasses would i like to think not have only males anymore but that is what was true then if you google the term scientist this is of an the image that you

see, so where does this come from, there is an author wrote a book called dangerous to signs cinema -- he arcs the wild hair from the most famous scientist albert einstein, there are many famous scientists einstein -- argues for everyone system to easy remember formula others white lab coat symbol of neutrality separation from the rest of the world standards of professionalism, the glasses are often visible sign in completeness of the human being short sightedness cuts him or her off from mainstream >> the worst case scientists is within creates monsters literal like frankenstein, a legitimate public fear stripped down

personallived, child with power without spirituality intelligence. in when applaud geophysicist amaze like everybody else wrote same concerns everybody else, pro created had families, this was like surprising him, only about 0.3% of the american population are basic scientists lab scientists many people don't know scientists until they have fixed images this was gallup poll trying to answer ask the question, do you think this particular group contributes to society. so 84% respondents believe military did contribute, 77% teachers contribute 70% scientists contributed 69% medical doctors, 64% engineers

40% clergy, 38% journalists contributing 31%, 23% remarkably high percentage believes lawyers contributed sorry, sorry only one percent, business executives contributed didn't ask about politicians because what would be the point. >> i think the other challenge is the scientists personality old joke, but plays how you tell the difference between yint veteraned and extro veteraned intradition veteraned stair at her shoes, scientists are often shy quiet, thought mul much more comfortable in isolation you don't typically find them doing standup comedy on reality television shows or screaming shirtless subfreezing weather football games exception of

eagles games how about those philadelphia eagles. this is being carried on c-span i want to make that point to also make the point that new england patriots were evil deserved it, so we got that. >> so take a look at this picture, this is larry king live, to last jenny mccarthy to right a man david with time the president of the american academy pediatrics david taylor is excellent pediatrician went on to show to calm waters whether or not -- caused autism not his venue jenny mccarthy dramatic, on alevel actress, but actress look at body language she dominated this conversation, leaning forward making her point david is literally back on heels, uncomfortable in this kind of venue, he david is used

to scientific medical venues people share ideas discuss facts come to reasonable conclusions, this was drama a passion play wasn't one he wasn't really ready for the other challenge shrinking opportunities, by 2008 number science articles in american papers shrunk by two-thirds cnn dismisses science space and technology unity. >> health and fitness, less than 2% include any now watch news all the time i can't think when science has been covered. the other, it is very hard to take a complex subject and reduce to a sound beauty for example, in the late 1990's, early ,000's the notion a mercury p-- preservative you hae

to understand to calm waters if you live on earth that you are going to be exposed to levels of mercury anything made in water including breast milk formula than ever from vaccines studies looked at children got vaccines contained murky compared to children got vaccines didn't contain mercury signs and symptoms of mercury the same, a complicated subject. and so you know you find yourself saying -- exposed to far more mercury in just by drinking breast milk than ever getting from vaccine that is not exactly reassuring, all you are doing confirming that people are caught in environmental hell. what you can say the studies have o shown no greater risk if -- but if you haven't been mercury never sounds good, just,

it is true we have high levels toxic to nervous system the minute you say that of you lost -- subcommittees, heard men say mercury zero tolerance on this planet is mercury you are exposed much as you are exposed to heavy metals valium, arsenic we all have those, heavy metals in bloodstream because we live on right turn's crust right all of us on the earth's crust. good news is science i think are good stories certainly have a story to tell. there are many capitals of this, delray, was between 1564, 1642, published observations about around jupiter unseen stars in

milky way called it starry messenger not only was he observing stars some level they were observing him interesting dramatic title, in 1818 fascinating by the fact that electricity was popularized. >> people relieved saw hair stand on end, a dead frog leg twitch especially amazed when she saw that dead foregoing foregoing's leg twitch so impressed she wrote frankenstein. louu pasteur he separated sheep goats at fair into two groups one gave vaccine other nothing 30 days later infected both with anthrax all in vaccinated group

survived control group died, animals passed away. many scientists excellent ambassadors to the field, a biochement jack cousteau. >> steven gould, biologists excellent storytellers favorite line from jack cousteau if he says that whether we believe in this how else can we explain good things that lap to people we don't like. >> so sort of the in terms of communicating science to public i am going through a number of stories, that some extent, i experienced i don't know if you remember the book, group with

father would always do something wrong that was basically that would be the way you would educate a family this is that. >> so in september 2007 jenny mccarthy appeared on oprah, i was asked to be on the show the way it played out. the oprah, asked to be on show you think you know i probably know more about vaccines than adjoiny mccarthy chance to calm waters that is not what this show is about oprah there to tell a story three roles, the hero, the victim and villain. jen is hero son has autism she believed was a victim, this leaves only one role for you. you are -- going on to a show, to basically tell two women that they are wrong, that mccarthy is wrong, vaccines don't call

autism oprah wrong to have her on studio show one hundred percent women not home field advantage there, jenny is dramatic says my child was fine doctor peddle pulled out that shot said autism shot isn't it doctor said she screamed at her i don't believe pediatricians do not scream at people they get screamed at we are wimps but scream -- within seconds, you don't go on that show, i didn't go on the show a mistake, i think that is the lessons gotten on a show when the host isn't on your side i think of all the things actually that i have done with media, this is the one thing that i would like to take back the thing i still think about still haunts me i will tell you the first time i was on television. at issue on good day

philadelphia was bruce williams and 11-year-old daughter whitney williams had a father believed she had acquired human immuno deficiency from polio vaccine never had tattoo never blood transfusion never had sex both parents hivnegative how did she get hiv father didn't make this up an article in the rolling stones by tom curtis the origin of aids was act of good or of man a book called the river journey -- both article and book basically made the same claim centered on the polio vaccine philadelphia, the doctor was head of the institute also the first person to give a vaccine oral polio vaccine. and he gave it, in the belgian

congo 1950s, the article and book basically made these claims. the chimp cells to make vaccine contained -- after being in okay latest the virus containing polio mu taitsdz in bodies to human consistent with this first appeared in belgian condo 1950s. in truth, hiv did mutate, but didn't occur in congo in 1950s occurred in cameron 1930s, it was not made from chimp cells it was monkey cells chimps are not monkeys they are apes. >> never defected by chain reactions, to detect small kwants of biogenome.

>> the fact rolling stone is not considered a great scientific medical journal i didn't know the source of the hiv i only knew what was not the source, when father got angry the host got angry with me i became more assistants, i was upset, that they used this child to -- to put forward this ill founded frankly disprudent believe father in midst of suing the maker of the vaccine, polio vaccine i think while caught up in those discussions i really failed access any sympathy for the girl highly active antiviral drugs weren't available, if you had hiv you were in trouble that was her story, she died in 1997, and eventually father dropped his lawsuit when it will became

clear how she did acquire hiv you think about it only way she could have acquired it. so i think the lesson here is -- be sympathetic no matter how trying circumstance another example on fox 29 philadelphia september 1997 back to school month i thought it would -- the producer asked me to talk about vaccines before children went to school, the -- setup not setup -- the producer, instead of siting with two hosts at their table that i have it in the reduceroom would be action people buzzing around put me on sort of high unstable chair rocked slightest movement i thought about to fall over there was a cameraman four feet in front of my face the newsroom was sort of bugs laughing one person screaming this was 1997, so there was a television drama

ali mcbeal interested in fashion statement being made by those women lawyers, and so had four models standing next to me with progressively shorter skirt setup could it be any more kis tracking my area appease fell out i was asked could you tell us what vaccines children get how many they get, and when they get them. now the actual answer to that question 1997 is this. children receive vaccines hepatitis b, 6 months, combination dpt, 15 months of age again four years of age to prevent --, 2, 4, 612 months polio 2.6 months of age, the vaccine 12 months, the chicken pox at 12 months of age no way i was going to be able to do this

not without a vaccine schedule in front of me the better answer would have been children receive several vaccines first years of life to preventative pneumonia among others parents should make sure children are up to date on vaccines so they don't suffer terrible diseases i didn't give any a -- of first answer i forgot when i said how often it was pathetic, model stopped talking stared at me badly the lesson you don't have to answer the question exactly as asked. this is another time i was on television june, 2013 with nora o'donnell on left charlie rose remember charlie rose gayle king on right had to do with a book written, do you believe in magic -- alternative medicine gayle king is one did interview

when you are on television, especially, it is -- less with radio more likely to have read your book, you are happy if they read the flap of your book pretty happy if they read title of your book gayle king read whole book had the book in front of her had -- tabs throughout book great questions great discussion about the industry megavictims can do harm it was great until it wasn't the reason it wasn't had to do with steve jobs in the book i talked about how steve jobs had pancreatic cancer he died from but didn't have ab typically pancreatic cancer did not have carcinoma -- sort of almost uniformly fatality he had neuro-- happened to be in pancreas with early surgery 59% chance every survival didn't choose early surgery rather a variety of

alternative treatments like, coffee enemas, megavitamins until too late for surgery charlie rose was good friend of steve jobs angry i chose to bring up steve jobs in his care, so we had this interaction with respect to the to you sir, isn't it dangerous to skai if you never treated a person what might or might not have been consequence sir, by the way, is also a bad. i am sorry i am not understanding mild panic sets in, in other words, did you treat jobs no, i didn't i said isn't it dangerous to suggest what he might have been able to do if you didn't treat him. >> get pulled into rabbit holes where facts i said correct ice iconicson in book said all the things i just said to you about what was choice of care choice

of delayed care what was pancreatic cancer, that is basically what i said, have 95% chance survival early surgery that if delayed two things, i think that the fact put himself unnecessary risk choosing alternative course the lesson for me here don't go down rabbit hole it is easy to do that who fund that had study what is your association with those funding was it always also a about data quality of the data the internal consistencies reproduceability at issue you get pulled into other things you have to try and avoid. >> this is another one, 60 minutes december of 2002 the george w. bush administration front line medical personnel to service smallpox vaccine, request occurred months after events of september 11, 2001, 1 ulterior before united states union invaded iraq

administration worried smallpox was used by rogue nations or groups as weapon of bioterror knew we stopped giving smallpox routinely to children by 197 we had generations of people in this country hadn't been vaccinated they worried that we were at risk. i was on the advisory committee at the time that made that recommendation, and i voted against it. i voted against it because for these reasons smallpox vaccine can be given post exposure even if exposed you have at least two days before you have to make sure that you've gotten that vaccine smallpox spread by rectangularing droplets generating from bliss ters in mouthed you need face-to-face contact within five feet face-to-face to get it measles is by small droplets if i walk away if anybody comes into my

airspace within two hours they could catch measles that is not true of smallpox you have to have face-to-face contact never an asymptomatic infection you have visible blifrts on face and body the smallpox vaccine has a difficult profile of can cause encephalitis inflammation of the brain, inflammation surrounding the heart death in one per million -- >> i was wait struck personnel, that how to give it make sure distributed wait until one case somewhere on face of this earth before we launch this program smallpox is limited from face of this earth by late 1970s is only one voted against that on program, i think my lesson here was when voting writing something down looked up i was the only one that had voted against it so that is the small lesson look up when you vote.

>> so the person that interviewed me dan rater if you remember dan rather, i remember that moment when he was interviewing richard nixon large venue, and one point nixon said this was a month before he left office nixon said, are you running for something, day n? and rather said this is time thank you routinely -- dan rathr said no mr. president. are you? and that sort of out lasted this was imposing, dan rather calm to visit my laboratory, and he was about this issue, so the thing that was worrisome the children's hospital philadelphia received federal funds administrators were worried i was about to appear on nags television show decaying program supported by president of the united states and centers for disease control prevention they were comfortable as long as i

did not creative federal government directly but stuck to scientific argument it was nerve racking the person heat of public relations great a veteran a star knew what she was doing didn't want me to say george w. bush's name every time, that dan rather said well if you were in oval office reviving george w. bush what would you say she would -- when looking at him she was over right shoulder i could see her doing this. so -- >> it was but we got through interview, dan rather was great to meet think -- this iconic journalist he was wonderful. >> okay. so lesson make sure you have backing of your institution. i think there are a number of you are courses that work on

behalf of science clearly the best without question are comedians universally great on science because generally skeptics no nonsense when they see it quick to point it out i will give you capitals this is a quote from george bernard shaw if you tell the truth make them laugh otherwise they will kill you. they all had different ways doing it. >> in 2010, pam, the big guy talks teller little guy doesn't talk sets up the president-electsic glass screen on one side, that is pro tech bowling pins the other side takes plastic off throwing at both sides correctly states this many children died of this, this many people, mothers were developed infection, on and on, getting the epidemiology exactly

right screaming top of lungs scientists in a drier way to go through numbers you did it in a way you were riveted i was on khobar report. >> 20 years not training for this in any way. but, way the way that he works, he comes to you before the show, and he says, look i play a character i am going to stay in character the entire interview, don't let my character get away with anything if you do let my character get away with something it is going to be a boring interview they don't give you questions beforehand but have dos, don't's khobar report, one don't's was -- brilliant a wonderful surgeon writerwritten

number of books one check list manifesto. >> how hospitals can be more efficient he was kept coming back to talking points people don't go, watch too long how this can be more for about the they go to laugh at steven khobar they don't want to learn about vaccines from you want to laugh, largely at your expense, so get used to it you are on a comedy show if anybody happens to know anything about that consider it a win, he has great on this show, and the end what happened was he asked me, so it is out there you are in pocket of industry, how do you respond to it so i said you know i am not in pocket of industry if anything sort of in pocket of children because we do exist children's hospital philadelphia 300 people in audience bioed --

booed loudly said that is not the answer you want i will ask same question again then go without this answer, so he asked me again i said, you can on one hand praise safe praise those make them safe what i was told us not to do, better and better they cheered live to tape as they say edited i said something nice about vaccine makers people cheered for the first time probably network television when i was leaving i asked the -- the woman who was he associate producer kwlr people booed people like you forget you are comedy show when you said in pocket of children made you sound like a pedophile. so when going back to the -- new york, we were going back to translation to say philly that night, my wife and daughter

would you have imagined that my daughter said yeah i imagined that that is why i booed. >> -- in this case, pope -- knew transition writer her strategy, steven khobar played antivaccine activist is a man bsamantha b, recoiled at some things she said pretty brave, also, on this show, when she came to the my laboratory i hadn't seen embarrassed i had never seen samantha didn't know who she was i asked children whether or not should i be on show they said definitely everybody watches "the daily show" go on definitely she was there with me he public camera people producers i thought she was the

producer, when i first met her just struck me very quiet, shy int int intro vert. >> brings two cameras one to see reaction one point just threw hands to head jumped up screamed, wtf ran out of the room just so they can get your expression this is how it works if you are willing to do this want to get out try and communicate you have to be willing to put aside any residual pride after 25 years of granting process and do it. jimmy kimmel i don't know if you have seen this one of the best 10 minutes, against antivaccine ever on television what he did was he had a see are easy of

piedtricians, rejecting a lifesaving measure vaccine weren't kidding if you watched you would be impressed how to rule angry they were, given their level of frustration i don't think they -- i am coming to the end i think there are some -- some very hopefully signs you can say nothing about trump administration you can say pretty much nothing about trump administration good he has gotten people off butts more marched i think since he has been in overs than american history. [applause] . >> right. so april 22, 2017, 400 cities u.s. 600 in the world washington man yu meant to brand berg millions wauchd marched for used pictures from that, march for

science 20,000 people in a marched down the landing great, this is one i can't believe i am mask for facts this one so bad the introverts are here the vietnam war previous to what do we want? peace. when do we want it? now, okay. what do we want evidence based science when two we want it after peer reviewer, i think that you know i think, as scientists kndz to be we need to stand up now more than ever, there is no venue that is too small whenever we see bad information we need to not let it go on chance all some level are scientists, logical ordered hire arcble thinkers can tell good from bad information i think we all need to stand up more than ever should not assume other people for me percently

funded by national tuts of health 25 years to work on -- wrote about -- who paid me? it was really it was the taxpayer that paid me they can just --, people like us to do that kind of work so i focus on one story no venue too small daughter in 8th grade went to school in philadelphia the teacher asked me talk about vaccines i thought really fun my daughter didn't, she was mortified, entire drive to school said, don't make jokes dad people don't get old people's jokes not going to think you are funny don't do that i am including col barr report, so o like -- 19 girls seemed i going it one didn't was staring grimly forward look on face do not embarrass me in prominent in front of my

friends, i think if you know, this it is if you embarrass your daughter in front of 8th grade why i think more challenging than anything else you are a dead man a walking dead man, so i was clearly the hardest thing i have ever done, thanks for your attention i will stop there. . [applause] . >> so a bunch of questions here, start with this right here. >> i think if giving you a microphone. >> i don't want to horrified to

trump tower to talk to trump, so you sort of -- unwind this nexus of how he became enmeshed how people like him, one side or the other? well, so robert kennedy jr., the son every robert kennedy is antivaccine activity head of world mercury project belief it was ant number of vaccines -- >> yes, so sorry, die. >> he made this crew sawusade i know why he ignores signs that exonerated this i think the data a truth is clearly merging from

study after study, several studies show no greatr risk to mercury type if you got vaccines makes sense from biology because you have fan more mercury in environment, he doesn't believe that, i don't know what his motivation is i mean i know that he is of counsel to the law firm morgan and morgan was of counsel to law firm -- law firms that are involved -- may be part of it i don't know, i don't know. it is frustrating he actually called me once to talk about this issue, in an article that he eventually wrote for the rolling stone magazine, it was full of inbeing acracies i thought it was great a great phone conversation with robert kennedy jrjr., coming --

>> we we had that, i think when we had that conversation, i thought he said to me i have mothers come to me worried about this trying to understand science could you explain this to me i probably talked to him for an hour, i thought great, i am going to be having touch football games hyannis port going to work out sandbagged me ultimately published an article in rolling stone magazine again, not one of the great medical you journals claims deadly immunity a series of misstatements i was in his mind i was just working for the pharmaceutical companies because my vaccine developed in philadelphia quote/unquote laced with -- i called editor rolling stone the person involved with this piece, said, there are a number of misstatements in this

article he kept saying we stand by our story, can haveling ben bradlee we stand by our story ben bradlee was right to stand by story the story was wrong could have shown it looking at -- they stood by it ultimately it was retracted but i don't know, i don't understand, a powerful physician could do a lot of good choosing to do harm i don't know why. this one right here. >> pediatrician 40 years i can certainly -- oif with the pediatricians screaming about how vaccines are denied by parents, what is my own feeling after all these years is that a lot of it comes down to science education. signs education, high school would i like your thoughts on that that this is how we teach

people scientific method is as said about robert kennedy facts don't seem to matter to people any wish i knew answer to that that we probably could be better at trying to educate, about the tenets of the method what method allows to us say what it doesn't allow to us say we are in a different time, this -- this notion of simply proudly declaring your truce even though a direct directly contradictory everything to we know, evolution you have to den 250 years fossil records to believe man and apes didn't evolve from common ancestor department of education does this secretary of the department of education head, it is -- >> it is painful, i think all we can do is to try and -- and try and get the facts out there, as

most compelling passionate compassionate way make it a story fun clear also clear that there are things at stake, i mean obviously denying -- puts us at great risk, we just have to make that clear we have to tell a powerful story because i think we are humans compelled by story we have to be able to tell a more powerful story we can do that i think we can do that i mean you look at like, aaa, american -- association for advancement of science d.c. 120,000 scientists belong to that organization great, organization science magazine that is a great sales force i think we don't feel that we are compelled to get out there and do it we think other people are doing it they are not we are not very good at it not certainly out of comfort zone believe me way out of my comfort zone, but i think you have no choice but to do it if you don't do it then you know we have much to lose. >> yes?

>> right here. >> -- microphone. >> personal -- >> my first granddaughter is 8 1/2. and for 8 1/2 years i have been carrying this burden because my daughter has not vaccinated my 8 and one half-year-old, and the 6-year-old. and i -- would ask her why, and seems that her husband's family are also feel this way because when he was a baby, and he had one of his shots, he his temperature shot up to 105 had to take him in snow to get the temperature down i said same thing happened to my son, and i put him in some ice water he recovered but it wasn't because of the vaccinations it was because of a virus i walk around with this say we are in discussions now, with the doctor, pediatrician, and i am

just -- i am so scared that thing children in harm's way, i love these kids, my whole family walked around like shaking, she took them to disney world i asked her please get them vaccinated before they went to disney world the world comes to disney world they were luck because nothing happened what do i do? how do i get this this -- my daughter i love very much, and aodor grandchildren how do i get her to see the light? you know. >> it is a great question, i think -- and arguably unanswerable one you just do the best you can, i get calls every day questions about vaccine 85% of the time smell smoke want to know whether any fire reshoushl find out what they are worried about explain why it doesn't

make sense how data is showing their concern should be alleviated some have a fear irrational fear they told to title doesn't matter what you say they are not going to be convinced you lived in a country you can choose not to vaccinate children 47 states have religious exemption 17 states have exemptions you can make that choice does it put child risk yes does it put those were whom they come in contact with at risk yes not all are one hundred percent effective, i don't know, i think you just have to make it as clear as one can that a choice not to get a vaccine is not a risky choice it is a choy to take a more serious risk you should not play that game of russian rulet at our house a child parents converted to muslim vaccinated older children chose not to vaccinate this child not that there is

anything in muslim religion says don't get vaccinated but their boy they are religions exemptions, we continued to see this, somewhat passively debrising they know what they are doing 11 months of imaging child got bacterial meningitis there was a vaccine, the type of knew mo caucus one of prevented a bad case meningitis, we saved his life he will never see walk speak or hear again, this was a normal child, who say arguably 930-year-old life snuffed out by a terrible decision, a decision based on bad information at very alleviate i think when especially young pediatricians don't -- less compelled by them, they have to be willing to be much more strident about what is

at stake vaccines a victim of their success you didn't have to give into my parents to vaccinate they were children 20s, 30s saw -- the teenagers polio criticaller of children and young adults to vaccinate my children i had maze you will see mumps rubella all those i know what they felt like my children 25, 23 didn't grow up with these, i would like to believe they are going to vaccinate their children, but -- that is my guess on that, but -- you know, it is to young clinicians not as compelled because they didn't see them if a rash comes into a house i am often asked to come down take a look, because i have seen so much measles many have not seen measles remarkable when you consider each every year 3 1/2 to four million cases 48,000 children, 3500 to 1,000

would die from disease that -- you know not preventable, we have lorraine sitting right here. [applause]. >> one more question, go with this gentleman here. >> first i read bad advice i really enjoyed it. >> thank you thanks for saying that. >> would you be in favor of another hospital pediatrician refusing to treat children whose parents don't vaccinate them? >> that is that is -- the 64,000 dollar question, what to do what do you do if a pediatrician, one hand you want do best you can you are the child advocate you want to do best you can to get that child a vaccine if you choose not to see them, what happens to them, where do they go, chiropractor, another

pediatrician maybe -- what happens, i don't know the answer i think, my wife is a general pediatrician goes through this once she felt they do kind of line you are talking about where you say look this is how important this is to me, if you can't vaccinate your child according to the schedule so i know they are in the safest position possible i can't help you walk out of this room knowing that they are at risk let me love your child don't put me in a position asked to practice substandard chair measles whooping cough, mumps, 6,000 cases a month last year i can't do that she found this is in with a -- a upper middle class suburban practice that was much more convincing they saw how important to us that willing to -- if you draw line somebody may say no walk away then you have no chance i don't know, i don't know the answer i do think, that certainly there are

increasing numbers making that choice, in part responsibility to waiting room if more children in waiting room knowing they are going to be children in that room on steroids for diseases or chemo for cancers those people can't get vaccinated. when ka limited its exemptions --