[inaudible conversations] >> good evening ladies and gentlemen. first, to housekeeping please silence your cell phone. and i would like to remind everyone know flash photography

is permitted during tonight's event. following the event upstairs in the lobby don't forget that most author events is a podcast at free library.org so to the free library of philadelphia i have wonderful honor to share the healthcare advisory council started several years ago when they did some pulling of the people and they learned that 30% 30% of the people coming at that time were coming here to get answers to some kind of healthcare related question there was an astonishing number with the healthcare advisory council. we hope the library bringing out

the training of staff and people how to do searches with good outcomes and get connected into those health-related manners it is an honor. free library is dedicated to advancing lyric is just literacy to invite curiosity from this award-winning author events theories to access resources please visit free library.org to make a gift to help the library continue to produce such transformative programming and don't forget to sign up for a library a library card. they still exist. it it is now my pleasure to introduce that i have you normal mode -- enormous personal

respect i did not know early in my career but over the last several years i am a physician i practice medicine for a little over 20 years that i i and all of my friends and colleagues the director of the education center and professor vaccine knowledge e is the coinventor of the founding advisory board member of the foundation elected to the institute of medicine at the national academy of sciences and the author of 140 papers including autism practice and i have i have to say that i admire him always willing to speak truth to those trying to bring

down and certainly deserves all love the respect. and with the best source of health information and it is ironic and with the healthcare advisory council also the elected office holder. so i am i am looking at this and i'm thinking so i am particularly interested about this position that i respected so much. this is an interesting book with

a dangerously misinformed we are so pleased to have him here with us this evening please join us here at the free library. [applause] >> the problem is we have that people simply declare their own truth so for example climate change is a hoax with evolution and creation to deny the enormous amount of data.

but you take a step back so that is the systematic enterprise that is the testing of the law and theory. but that is if that was distinct how many angels would come but that question would not be answered in the scientific venue. so as we form a hypothesis through statistical analysis and control to isolate the effects. and it isn't accumulated knowledge.

so to think about approaching the problem so they can so in 1926 and to cause cancer for which they won the nobel prize. a portuguese neurologist that the name was changed to lobotomy. with a man who lives not that far from here.

and that it has faded away in the 70s. that was the heart healthy diet. and with those consulting groups? to believe that the saturated fat was bad unsaturated were good and better that contained animal fat and saturated fat was that and he grew that into margarine which was partly hydrogenated vegetable oil loaded with trans fat. with 250,000 heart related events. >> this is one you might remember.

and chemist at the university of utah. and then to attach it to a battery. to cause nuclei are along -- the nuclei -- the nuclei to release energy that is what happened except the difference was was this at room temperature? the hyphenated name was coldfusion. but that to violate the first law that you cannot get more energy out of what you put into it but in any case and with the exxon valdez disaster to limit that source of energy without

liquidity of science so that is the balance deduction. the chief officer there of the uss enterprise he did this. it is called the tri- quarter it would scan you up and down then look in that is what you had. no doubt about it. if you asked people today and that with your illness that you know everything you need to know although we know that's not true. so to say enough silly uncertain terms.

and as function in many ways. so that combination causes autism even though there are 17 studies say there is no greater risk if you got autism are not that he has his followers. so just to touch the hem of the coat a person is a person to communicate to the public that people who know the most about it. unfortunately there are many things that work so for example

something that all scientist are trained in. if you are trying to determine that vaccine that is to say the mmr vaccine you can do two things. that is to say where not to the follows the other vaccine that occurs at a level greater or you cannot to say the following the mmr vaccine that you can to say that you can never approve never. so for example when i was a little boy watching the adventures of superman. he put his arms down to the key

to the whole navigational experience. and then he would look at the city and when you are five years old television does not lie. i went in the backyard and put a towel around myself that they talk about this in the mr. rogers movie kids actually did what i did but i tried it i tried it from a small height to fly. but i was unsuccessful. i could've done i could have done it a million times. you cannot prove there were not weapons of mass instruction in iraq. that i've never been to juneau alaska to show a series of buildings with me not standing next to them.

so that was evidence with a republican from indiana with government reform he has a grandchild who had autism and that vaccines caused it. so actually i was on the other side and the epidemiology's from center of disease control and prevention and she was great. she did is one as one could do that all the evidence to support the hypothesis that mmr vaccine. but she didn't but she didn't say what she needed which is that it doesn't cause autism but he heard waffling and he got angry you say you cannot tell me it doesn't because you just don't know.

but also like she was covering something up you could see the anger although dedicated to the method that hurt her when she tried to communicate to the subcommittee. and the other thing we are up against that in 1901 -- 1982 with those metric school students but in each case they wore a white coat with thick dark rimmed glasses. but that is what was true then. this is often the image that you see. there was an author that wrote a book a book called the dangers of science and elbert einstein

as the human symbol and there there are other famous scientists. that is simple and easy to remember formula. and then is a symbol of neutrality and separation from the rest of the world. but now the invisible sign as a shortsightedness off of the mainstream. and then in the worst case to have these monsters that are literal or figurative. and with a legitimate public fear and then the child of power with spiritual intelligence. and with the geophysicist spend

a couple to spend a couple months of actual geophysicist. and just like everybody else. the same insurance as everyone. but only 0.3% of the american population so many people don't know science and with the images of them. the gallup poll trying to answer the question do you think this particular group?? so 84% of respondents say the military did contribute. and that those six medical factors contributed 23% remarkably high percentage

lawyers contributed. [laughter] [inaudible] but the other challenge so to tell the scientist that introverted scientist and they are shy and quiet working in isolation and then with the reality television show. and with the exception how is that? and then carried on c-span and want to make that point also be

mine. [inaudible] and this is larry king live and off to the right who at the time the president of the american academy of pediatrics. and then to calm but this was not the venue to be vivid and imaginative it dramatic and an actress nonetheless and look at the way that she dominated the conversation although he is literally back on his heels with this venue. men with medical venues they share ideas this was a passion

play and one that he wasn't ready for. there are plenty of opportunities and they shrunk by two thirds. with science and technology unit. with health and fitness instead i watch the news all the time. but the other issue is a soundbite problem. with a complex subject so for example in the late 1990s with a mercury -containing preservative with developmental delays you have to understand a fair amount and if you live on the planet earth exposed to

levels of mercury including breastmilk and infant formula. compare those that got the same vaccine that didn't contain mercury. and then to say things it has far more mercury exposure and more than they will ever get from vaccines. and those that are caught in this environmental health. but if you haven't it is truly high levels toxic to the nervous system with a congressional

subcommittee to say when it comes to mercury i have zero tolerance because on this planet you will be exposed to it. just like other heavy metals. including arsenic and they circulate in our blood system because we all live on the earth's crust. but the good news is they certainly have a story to tell. and to publish his observations hundreds of previously unseen stars in the milky way to call that the starry messenger. but at some level they were

observing him. but to be fascinating and early 1800s with those county fairs. or when they saw the dead frog leg twitch they were especially amazed. as she was so impressed when she wrote the book. but louis pasture was a showman and a 1981 he separated sheep and goats at the county fair into two groups that he inspected both groups with anthrax all survived all in the control group died.

many scientists were excellentet ambassadors and shot cousteau with the evolutionary biologist and botanical engineers. they are all excellent storytellers. and whether all of us believe how could we explain those good things that happen to people we don't like? [laughter] but in terms of communicating. and to what extent but the berenstein beers -- bears book. the father would always do something wrong but that's the way he would educate his family.

but in september 2007. i was actually asked to be on the show. this is how it played out. and then this isn't what the show is about. oprah is there to tell the story and it has three rules. the hero, the victim and the villain she is the hero and her son was the victim so that leaves only one role for you which is the villain. so you're going on the show that to say that she is wrong and that in front of the audience 100% women.

and then to save my child was five and was fine and then that that is the autism shot and that he screamed to her which i do not believe pediatricians do not scream at people we get screamed at and then within seconds the soul left his eyes. don't go because that is a mistake and so don't go away and the host is not on your side. but this is the one thing that i still think about is actually the first time i was on television on good day philadelphia bruce williams and his 11-year-old daughter the father believe she acquired aids

from an oral polio vaccine. at the time they were no other risk factors never had a blood transfusion or tattoo or sex both were hiv-negative. how did she get hiv? the father did not make this up there was an article and there is of bookm both the article and the book basically made the same claim that talked about the oral polio vaccine. and to offer her the first person ended in the belgian congo in the 1950s. but those with the polio vaccine

but with this with this virus containing the polio vaccine would take this to the human immunodeficiency virus and this first appeared in the 50s. but that event didn't occur in the belgian congo in the 30s. but neither were ever detected for the ways to detect small quantities of the buyer genome with the polio vaccine this is why "rolling stone" is not looked to be one of the great scientific american journals.

i only know what is not the source. i became more insistent clearly this child was suffering to put forward this belief and the father was in the midst of suing the oral polio vaccine. so while i was caught up in those discussions i failed to give any sympathy to the girl. this was 1993 highly active anti- retro viral drugs if you are 199 -- if you had hiv in 1993 were in trouble she died in 1997 eventually the father got his lawsuit when it became clear that is the only way she could have acquired it. the lesson here is the

sympathetic no matter the circumstance. but i was i was on fox 29 in philadelphia that they would talk about vaccines but the setup was instead of sitting with those host at the table people would be buzzing around that rock to the slightest movement. with that camera 4 feet in front of my face. one person was screaming and then in 1997 and then audi mcbeal that started.

so that was the statement by those women lawyers of she had for that were standing next with progressively shorter skirts. that was the setup. could it be any more distracting? that is when my earpiece fell out when i put it back in i was asked the question can you tell us what vaccines children get and how many they get and when they get them? you shouldn't receive one for hepatitis b you3 you shouldn't receive one for hepatitis b you shouldn't receive one for hepatitis b and polio vaccine at two and four and six months of age and then the 12 months 12 months and four years in the chickenpox vaccine at 12 months. there is no way i could do this so finally the better answer would have been within the first few years of life with a blood

infections among others. they. they have to make sure they are up to date so they don't have to suffer these terrible diseases. i would of got lost in the middle which vaccine they already said. it was so pathetic they just stopped talking and stared at me. [laughter] see you don't have to answer the question as asked. but in 2013. and it had to do with the book through the nonsense but when you are on television like newspapers or radio those two have read your book you are

pretty happy they read the title of your book but they had the book sitting in front of her and we had a good discussion about industry and it was great until it wasn't. but in the book to talk about how how he had pancreatic cancer but he did not have the typical pancreatic cancer he had a tumor that happened in his pancreas early surgery he had 95% chance of survival he did not do that but chose alternative treatments like mega vitamins and enemas until it was too late.

charlie rose was a good friend of steve jobs he was angry that i chose to bring up steve jobs with his care. if it is dangerous to safe you have never treated a person. not just to not just to say it is always bad. so did you treat him? no i no i didn't. because that could be dangerous but it doesn't really matter but then walter isaacson wanted his butt buck back and another said everything that i just said with that twist of care and actual pancreatic cancer. but with early surgery.

and then to put himself at unnecessary risk. it is easy to go down the rabbit hole. it is always about the data and the quality of the data. and then always but this is another one. with the george w bush administration. so this occurred months after september 11, 2001 before the united states invaded iraq and with those rogue nations or rogue groups basically start

giving those routine decisions one -- vaccines we -- vaccines we have generations of people had been vaccinated. and then we risk. so to make that recommendation i voted against it because that smallpox vaccine if you have been exposed you have to make sure you have gotten that vaccine. so you really need face to face contact it's not like measles. so to stand here and then walk away. so within two hours they could catch the measles. it is never the ace of dramatic

infection and also the smallpox vaccine has a different safety profile that is inflammation of the brain but then my feeling at the time is what's just wait. that's be constructive because somewhere on the face of this earth it is illuminated. i am the only one that voted against that on the program. but then to realize i was the only one that voted against it. [laughter] but with dan rather but to be

interviewing richard nixon and at thatnixon and at that point said i've had enough but then he said that he said no are you? but this was an imposing figure. but why that is worrisome is they receive federal funds but with the cdc were comfortable as long as they didn't criticize the federal government directly. and so that had of public

relations veteran and really knew what she was doing that she didn't want me to say george w. bush's name. and as an advisor what would you say? and she was just over his white white -- right shoulder. so to meet this iconic journalist to explain how that worked and was really wonderful. >> so the lesson is make sure you have the backing?? remake that those that really worked were clearly the best. they were universally great make

sure you tell people the truth otherwise we will kill you. [laughter] he could have scratched up the screen on the plexiglas side but if you take off the plastic but this many people, mothers were rebelling and then to go on and on but that is exactly right screaming at the top of the. but in that dryer way keep it to be riveted.

. . . . he's a wonderful surgeon and writer. he was on the colbert report.

he kept coming back to his talking points. people go there to laugh at steven colbert. they don't want to learn about vaccines from you, they want to laugh at steven colbert at your expense. he was great on the show. at the end, what happened, he asked me, you're out there in the pocket of industry, what you think. i said i'm not in the pocket of the industry, i'm in the pocket of children with 300 people in the studio audience booed loudly. i didn't understand this but i'll tell you why in a second. he was great. he could've left it at that and had may be embarrassed on national television. he said that's not the question you want.

i looked at the studio audience and said was any better and they cheered. it was edited were basically said something nice about vaccine makers and people cheered in the first time in network television and when i was leaving asked the woman was the associate producer, why do people blue. she said people like you forget your on a comedy show. when you said you were in the pocket of children you sound like a pedophile. [laughter] we were going back to the train station to come back to philly and i asked my wife and daughter, would you ever have imagined that my daughter said yeah i imagine that, that's why i booed. [laughter]

samantha be, her strategy, steven claire kind of played the anti- vaccine activist spreadsheet just took it on directly and challenged her for a number of statements. when she came to my laboratory, actually haven't seen samantha, i didn't know who she was. when i asked my children if i should be on the show they said definitely, go on the show when she was there she was there with couple camera people and other producers, and i thought she was the producer pitching very quiet and shy and introverted. i can read women. i don't know what it is

printed like a special gift or something. they bring two cameras to the interview, one to sort of see her reaction. she jumped up and scream wtf and ran out of room. it was just so they can get your expression. this is how it works but if you're willing to do this and want to get out there and try to communicate, he had to be willing to put aside any residual pride you had after 25 years of the granting process and do it. jimmy kimmel, i don't know if you've seen this one, this is one of the best ten minutes, sort of against the anti- vaccine folks, that's ever been on television. what he did was had a series of pediatricians in southern california basically screaming at the top of their lungs of having people reject and arguably life-saving measure vaccine. they weren't kidding. if you watch the show you would be really impressed by how truly angry they were

given their level of frustration, i'm coming to the end. i think there are some very hopeful signs, if you can say nothing about the trump administration that's good, one thing you can say is that he's gotten us off our butts. more people have marched than ever before in american history which was true for the march for science. [applause] on april 22, 2017, in 400 cities in the u.s. and 600 in the world, millions of people marched for science caring signs and banners that would say staggeringly compelling moments. these are some pictures from that event. i don't know if you remember but here in philly it was raining. there were 20000 people who march down to penn landing. this is one pretty can't believe i'm marching.

[inaudible] for those of you who remember the vietnam war protest, what do we want, peace. when we want it? now. what we want evidence-based science, when we want it? after peer-reviewed. [laughter] this is my last slide. i think as scientists, we really need to stand up, now more than ever. there's no venue that's too small. whenever we see bad information, we need to not let it go unchecked. all of us, at some level are scientists, are logical, order, hire logical thinkers but we shouldn't assume other people are doing it. for me personally, for 25 years i wrote about the spread who paid me? was the taxpayers who paid

me. they can just as easily decide not to pay people to do that kind of work. in terms of no venue is too small, she went to school in suburban philadelphia and the teacher asked me too come talk about vaccines but i thought this would be really fun. my daughter didn't. she was mortified. the entire drive to school that morning she said don't make jokes. people my age don't get old people jokes, they won't think you're funny, don't do it. so i gave, there were 19 girls who seem to be enjoying it, one didn't, she was just staring grimly forward with a look on her face that said do not embarrass me in front of my friends. if you embarrass your daughter in front of your eighth-grade friends, this is why i is more challenging than anything have

done, you're a dead man, you're a walking dead man. it was literally the hardest thing i've ever done. thank you for your attention. i will stop there. [applause] there's a bunch of questions here. let's start with this gentleman here. i think they will give you a microphone. >> i don't want to personalize this but the person's name has to be used, but i'd like you to try to unwind with grown up about this, robert kennedy. he has been held up by the anti- baxter's as an anti- baxter, although he obviously says he vaccinated all of his children. i think all of us were horrified when he went to trump tower to talk to trump.

can you sort of unwind this nexus of how he's become enmeshed in this and how people like him are used by one side or the other robert kennedy junior, the son of robert kennedy is an anti- vaccination promoter. he believes that this was causing harm and he has made it his crusade. i don't know why he continues to ignore the science that has exonerated this, i think the data clearly emerged from study after study after study. there's been several studies that show you at no trader

risk of mercury if you got me vaccines are if you didn't which makes sense from the biology because you have far more mercury in the environment. he doesn't believe that. i don't know what his motivation is. i know he was of the council of morgan morgan and others, these are law firms that are involved in lawsuits and maybe that's part of it. i don't know. it's frustrating. he called me once to talk about this issue in an article that he eventually wrote for the "rolling stone" magazine. it was just full of inaccuracies product that was great but i thought i had a great long phone conversation with robert kennedy junior. >> he's a smart guy. he's done so much good work. it doesn't make any sense to me. >> i don't know. but when we have that, just as a window to that, we have conversations like that, he

said i've had others who come to me and i'm worried about that, could you understand and explain this to me and i probably talked to him on the hour on the phone. i thought great, i'm gonna be having touch football games, this is all a workout. and he sandbag me. he ultimately published a article in "rolling stone" magazine called deadly immunity and had a series of misstatements, not the least of which was that a vaccine contained thimerosal which it doesn't. in his mind i was just working for the pharmaceutical companies because my vaccine that was developed at the children's hospital was laced with them yourself. i called the editor of "rolling stone", or at least the editor and i said there was a number of mistakes in the story and they just kept saying we stand by our story. ben bradley was right standby story.

you could've easily shown it was wrong in five minutes and they just did buy it. ultimately it was retracted but, i don't know, i don't understand it. he's in a powerful position because of his name and he could do a lot of good but he's choosing to do harm. i don't know why. >> as a pediatrician for 40 years, i can thoroughly identify with pediatricians who were screaming about how vaccines are denied by parents. my own feeling after all these years is that a lot of it comes down to science education. it's in the elementary and high schools. this is how we teach people what scientific method is and how to evaluate facts. just as he said about robert kennedy, the facts don't seem to matter to people.

we probably could be better at trying to educate about what the method allows and what it does allow us to say. i think were just in a different time. the notion is simply proudly declaring your own truth even though there's a direct contradictions everything we know. you have to deny 250,000 years of records to believe that it didn't of all from a common ancestor. the secretary of the department of education does do this. that's the head of the secretary of department of education. it's painful. i think all we can do is try to get the facts out there in the most compelling way that we do to make it a story, to make it fun that there are

things at stake. obviously denying climate change puts us at great risk and we just have to make that clear. we have to tell a powerful story because i think were human and were compelled and we have to tell more powerful story. we can do that. i think we can do that. you look at the american association for the abandonment of science, 120,000 scientists, that's a great sales force. i think we don't feel compelled to get out there and doing it. either people are doing it or not, were not very good at it, it's not out of our comfort zone, believe me this is way out of my comfort zone. i think you have no choice to do it because if you don't do that we have much to lose. >> this is personal. my first granddaughter is eight and half.

for a half years, i've been caring this burden because my daughter has not vaccinated my eight half-year-old and the six-year-old and i would ask her why, and it seems that her husband's family also feel this way because when he was a baby and he lost one of his shots, his temperature shot up to 105 and they had to take them in the snow to get the temperature down. i said to him, the same thing happened to my son and i put them in some ice water and he recovered but it wasn't because of the vaccination, it was because of a virus, and i walk around with this and they said were in discussions now with the pediatrician, and i'm so scared that the are putting children in harm's way.

i love these kids and my whole family walked around shaking. she took them to disney world and i asked her to please get them vaccinated before they went to disney world because the world comes to disney world. they were lucky because nothing happened. what do i do? how way get my daughter, whom i love very much and adore my grandchildren, how do i get them to see the light. >> is a great question. arguably an unanswerable one. you just do the best you can. i would say i get calls every day from parents who have questions about vaccines. 85% of the time they smell the smoke of one another's any fire and the reassure ball. you find out what they're worried about commutes plain to them either why it doesn't make sense or waivers data showing their concern should be alleviated, but some people just have this fear, it's an irrational fear but when they

hold onto very tightly and it doesn't matter what they say. you live in a country where you can choose not to vaccinate your children. forty-seven states, this would put your child at risk and put those in contact with at risk. not all vaccines are 100% effective. i don't know, i think you just have to make it as clear as one can that a choice not get a vaccine is a choice to make a different and more serious risk and you shouldn't play that game. we shouldn't play the game of russian roulette to give you a perfect example for we saw child who had recently converted to muslim in their chosen not to vaccinate this child. not that there's anything in the muslim religion that says don't get vaccinated, but this was their belief. we agreed, because there are religious exemptions and it just depends, we continue to

see this. we were agreeing on what they were doing. a child got back to real meningitis called pneumococcus, there was a vaccine for that. it would have been prevented by the vaccine. he had a bad case of meningitis. his brain pressed down. we integrated him and saved his life but he will never see, walk, speak or hear again. this was a normal child who was 70 or 80 or 90-year-old life was snuffed out based on bad information. at the very least, especially young pediatricians who also don't see these today and i left compelled by them, i think they have to be willing to be much more strident about what that state. i think vaccines are largely a victim of their own success. you didn't have to convince my parents to vaccinate us. they saw these diseases as

killers. i had measles, i have months, i had rebello, had all those diseases. my children, our children were 25 and 23, they didn't grow up with these diseases, they don't see them there far left compelled by them. i'd like to think the vaccinate their children, but it's also true of young clinicians who aren't as compelled by these diseases because they didn't see you then. when someone with a fever or rash comes into the hospital, i'm often asked to come down and take a look because i've seen so many measles. many young physicians haven't seen it when you consider that every year we have three and a half to 4 million cases of measles and 500 to a thousand would die from a disease that's now preventable because of a man-made penicillin and were actually lucky to have

here, i think there's time for one more question. let's go with this gentleman here in the end. would you be in favor of pediatricians refusing to treat children whose parents don't vaccinate them? >> that's the 64000-dollar question. what do you do if your pediatrician? on the one hand, you want to do the best you can, you're the child advocate. you want to do the best you can to get that child vaccinated. if you choose not to see them, what happens to them? where do they go? do they go to chiropractor or another pediatrician, what happens? i don't know the answer.

i watch my wife is a general pediatrician go through this, and i think once she felt that once they drew the line you are talking about recent look, this is how important this is to be, if you can't vaccinate your child according to the schedule so that i know they're in the safest position possible, i can't have them walk out of this room knowing that there at risk. don't put me in a position where i'm asked to practice substandard care with this child to get measles or whooping cough or 6000 cases amounts. i can't do that. what she found in this was with an upper-middle-class suburban practice was that that was much more convincing. they saw how important it was. if you're willing to drop a line, you have to realize they might say no one walk away and then you have no chance. i don't know the answer. i do think there are increasing numbers of pediatricians were making that choice, in part because they have responsibility in the waiting room. if you have more children in

the waiting room for unvaccinated or on chemotherapy for their cancers, those people can't get vaccinated. when california eliminated its philosophical. [inaudible] thus becoming the third state in union have no exemption, no religious exemption, when they did that, what turn the tie with a little 5-year-old boy who had leukemia was in the midst of his therapy and he would go to these meetings and stand up and get on a stool because he can reach the microphone and he would say what about me, don't i count? i depend on you to protect me. that made a difference. it was a societal argument. it's hard to make a societal argument. >> thank you. [applause] good.