[inaudible conversations]

good evening and welcome to the strand bookstore i am the owner of the strand. we are located in greenwich village in the capital of new york city founded 1927 in and area known as book row and it housed 48 book stores since 91 years they all have shuttered being passed down for my grandfather to my dad then to me to be kept independent. [applause]

so tonight we are so excited to hear from charlene carruthers from today's black liberation movement as a national director of the last youth project 100 she worked alongside hundreds alongside black activists to create justice and freedom for all black people she is a black queer feminist with over one dozen years of experience of racial justice of feminist and youth leadership development and recognized as one of the top ten most influential african-americans one of ebony magazines an emerging power player and the 2017 recipient of the ymca doctor dorthea

ward. doctor cornell west found her new book "unapologetic" for radical movement in the great linage of harriet tubman and ida b wells and marsha johnson we couldn't be more excited along with praise to offer their weaving reviews of this powerful book. as an organizer and educator and curator founder and director of a grassroots organization teaching high

school and college students here in new york as well as chicago running the influential blog prison culture. we are happy to have the activist here with us tonight hosting their conversation at c-span filming tonight's event for her booktv please join me to welcome charlene to the strand. [applause] >> hello everybody. good evening.

familiar faces i just want to remember to let you know we are being filmed against my will i would prefer not to be in your photos but please take them off you charlene thank you so much for that our plan is basically she will read from the book that i will ask a bunch of questions what is completely irrelevant so right now we're talking about other things but i will ask ask a few questions and we'll open it up to the audience. >> so i will continue with my gratitude to say yes to that camera. and thank you for your brilliant commitment to our people. [applause]

and to every person in this room for being here it is surreal. this is like my second official stop and it is wild to me every time i look out into the audience i say i can't say something too out of pocket because somebody will call me out. so i am super grateful so i will read out little bit titled five questions i want special public assertion that it is not your grandparents of all rights movement i thought it was disrespectful to the people came before us.

but as i reflected more deeply i found truth in the statement it is in the civil rights movement and that's okay let thought or action is not movement it is now the student nonviolent coordinating committee and the southern christian leadership conference no longer exists or holds much less power and influence but today's movement doesn't look or talk or communicate the same way as those that came before us today's movement is not the black power movement even for some for the black part panther party or the philadelphia-based group often overlooks the sacrifices people are forced to make in those organizations capitalism

was cementing itself to get a firm grip on our community and hiv and aids were just beginning to ravage our community. united states fought wars against the fascist regimes in the communist eastern bloc j edgar hoover breaking down the infrastructure to curtail the black power movement but today's movement right the unprecedented level of surveillance activist organizers can share information at a speed during times of heightened activity the mainstream new shows queers or those that are

highly visible to remove that structure. but that visibility is not enough. to have political and social intervention to organize our community and no one person or single group has ever won something truly meaningful for our people alone. even harriet tubman the abolitionist in the first woman to lead military raid during u.s. civil war had allies and co-conspirators. she helped to liberate over 300 slave africans as an underground railroad conductor. and to read about her and then i took notion. but as a woman who had narcolepsy and the sleeping

spells. and then just another enslaved person but as a child they never wondered how she accomplished what she did and now with extraordinary organizing skills. without being killed without losing a single person along the way. >> so are you i genki fan or a white sox? >> who are the yankees? [laughter] can everybody please leave the room?

>> talk about this book and you had in mind. >> and just when i wrote this book a little bit more but i had 18-year-old me in mind. and to get involved in activism and then to turn up on the campus. that is one of the first moments i organized around anything and somebody told me some students because of their legal status but that is wild

good thing they didn't hand it to me at that time but the midwest academy organizing manual or anything like that. but the trajectory would have been much different. and i wish he had a book about how to organize. and if we had anything from the prolific elledge o baker. with those many organizations that we model our work after. and if she had written a book i guess i would write the book that i wrote but organizing would have been sharper.

and with the work that i was doing. but this generation of activists and community organizing i want to take the time to write down to put into historical context. and to be quite a full marble as an organizer and provide very practical things. to writing and documenting and any number of hours or on -- other organizers. can you speak to the writing

process? >> and why documentation matters? >> i have never been a discipline student? listening to the teacher or professor give a lecture to take a test. i got a lot of things on long -- a's on things i never read and that is wild. i haven't been that personal my life.

but when i was doing digital organizing and that has to make sense to a lot of people. in a way that relates to a lot of people? when it comes to writing a book with the op-ed or article or anything like that? or the life coach. to set a word count goal every week. whether or not a hit that goal

i write to best in the morning so i would get up at seven or 8:00 a.m. and to go to the coffee shop and write for about three hours? and i would do this for five days a week? i didn't do my writing schedule every single week or every single day. i am habit of verse. i do know if you grow up in a neighborhood where drugs are real and i don't like to form a habit. [laughter] that shower and brush my teeth. so to be habit of verse?

and to make it through college and or iced coffee. or to take it up. or those with the almond milk. i have to convince myself that i could write a book. that is one of the earliest people who believe i could write the book. and those that thought that we could be. and what that could possibly

be for the generation. we have to believe first. so to speak a little bit as part of your book. so five years ago the young black full in a room who were gathered from the black project advisory council to think about organizing for black liberation as a political scientist is a founding board member has done a lot of writing and research and amazing work how black full have engaged in life's

work with access to healthcare and dignity. but that saturday night we hear the verdict of trey von martin will be announced. so to dream up black lives matter. so in addition it is something obvious for the black people and that month later so this is when we first met. and to write out this mission field vision so we had this super traumatic moment and we wanted to do that organization and do the base building

work. so many of us looked around where we could bring our entire selves so often times this happens in the movement a lot so you learn they all go to college. not true that is like intellectual work many have not gone to college. to have phd's and all kinds of stuff those who are underemployed or unemployed artist or people and what this organization really is to make inconsistent interventions in black communities. i like to think of it as an intervention so those

conditions of black people create more complete solutions so we work across the country and to organize in the south and the midwest and on the west coast and everywhere in between. >> it is my first political home not organization but where i'm consistently engaged in the struggle and as an organizer to do nothing else. helping to develop leaders. if you have been doing this work for 20 years then you have not do your job.

send for those who with the incoming national codirectors i trained one of them personally and the other is one of the most disciplined organizers i have ever met in my life. >> also talk about the organization that it did not start that way. people came that way those who try to figure out trying to figure out your values with a lot of struggles so talk about that evolution ready organization has ended up. >> yes. the first time i ever heard

about abolition in the prison industrial complex, prison offices 19 years old she was 26. to tear down capitalism. and she is the first person who ever told me about that idea. i know one of the people. and those who are major influences so many of us like to say those that were left of progressively want out because we were arguing. i remember the first community to say we need to be focused on black community voices.

okay. we can do both we can focus on the black men and boys and girls and all of that and whatever else in the years to. i talk about it is the book the debate over body cameras. this is before walter scott was gunned down in south carolina in his car. he shot and killed and before all of that there was the debate whether body cameras were an effective measure. and we compromised. that is the evolution.

and to keep it 100 with you. and that organization. are those that require mcdonald? and not from a place of judgment? i get it. so how do you live within these real contradictions? so is the person who is unapologetically black? and say i want people to know me but as a political framework and actual set of values.

she put it on the shirt not because it looked cute but as part of our dna as an organization that we can be black in all of this and then some and nothing to apologize about at all. so all of that is important and as we begin to create alternative with the imperative to call us the abolitionist. >> talk about the black we're feminist lenses? that is a huge part of the work and connected to that with the story to illustrate to use that within the organizing and what that was like this book is not the

history but there are a number of stories in the book i have been through personally and as an organization one of them to me is my politics and through that in advance became real. and actually not real stuff. it has been hard to talk about it i wanted to get it out of the way i didn't want to talk about it for the rest of the book. and in 2015 we received reports that one of the leaders had sexually assaulted

a young black woman years prior to our organizations find -- founding back kidnapped by the police we were organizing and his name was everywhere. we were trying to get the bail money he was charged with a felony. now we were afraid. both government and state actors acting just of the state even though they called themselves a part of the i remember laying in the bed after he was arrested literally scooped up and thrown into a car physically stressed out. other folks who organize we were figuring out what to do and then i didn't open my

letter i just always received a report this person did this and you talk about free him? those are the other committed non- community said he doesn't deserve to be in jail so that is my understanding why she sensed the open letter to our organization to have a set of policies to believe in this and when you received a report like this what you going to do? and in that particular moment we have never been more visible and after it was released we had to fight the cops.

i didn't even know who he was at the time left matt but i knew he was a black person i always find out things late. so we had to make a choice in that moment and to be in tears outside of the cook county courthouse because i had to deliver this news. to see her come and was crying. they dropped the charges and for him to walk out was probably the relation. >> when i saw you come out of the court crying i thought the whole thing has gone down.

>> i was ready to say what are we going to do? so kathy was right there. it was deep so we sat in the bathroom and cried and shared what we had learned the details of his account of what happened and let him know we were reaching out to the young woman. i will be clear i'm talking about my experience i cannot tell you what it was like for other people that were much closer. there is a public accounting of the entire situation. but i can tell you what it was like for me and it was hard for myself and the two other black women. and those forms of sexual violence. and to figure out what holding

involving the young woman. and in the midst of all of this we are dragged on the internet. and not doing this and this. and to say you could've called me. and just a couple of days later sitting and talking about what happened and what you interested in doing? i question her own politics and as a black woman after we left that conversation. instead she was open. and malcolm said he would show up.

and then to have such a different conversation. she said yes and even more importantly and to say yes. through holding a process that is 18 months. people talk about the story a lot about what to do. to make mistakes along the way. and to make mistakes. what i don't appreciate what i will not ever forget. but that lack of empathy that they have for us.

and it hurts. to be attacked from all different sides people are attacking me and lesbians the university of chicago. we even get a photo. i am not a paid protester. but all of us on the internet left mac. and on black friday. it was wild. and at the beginning i wanted people to know what it's like to have to practice what you preach. organization now.

and then to start that all over again. and for what it means to win a self-governing and self determining body. and with that lifecycle to recognize not think it could work but you make that assessment in the way that we went to. >> and then and then i was

hoping you could about what them should all. in the final question what about that before black life so chapter number four. so it was that close. close enough that i first started to write this book poured half years ago there was a lot written down about what generation with atrophy and movements. about how the body naturally and atrophy is a natural thing. with the generation of new sales to regenerate and being

high. what kind of pain that generate. >> and actually to be a lot more specific in to take away with them after they read this book. though those three developments by a training here and there. tuesday people have people before they out and that leadership development and

they like goal to go all around and often we misinterpret what allah baker said. she was talking about a very specific context of strong leaders with a charismatic leadership of the movement time and charismatic. and with that. one of the reasons i can get any sleep at night but strong leaders across the movement. but the second is a commitment

to healing justice as dna organization. so actually what provided the earliest definition that she about identified with identified with two or generational, and the impact or four people were so

honestly to the recovery petition every week it will be there. have to show up. they will not do the work for you. but we expect them to containers that work and a popular movement. one of the things that we struggle with. that this organization is expectation. we cannot do everything. >> in real life. the net is unrealistic. people do the work of that is to but not about you. and what are going through. >> debut.

then we have to separate out. >> what you donate a network of healing practitioner. not just put a certain address but have actually committed. i said it your craft is the size or psychology for all therapy or repeat.

you want to perish all in that way. organizations have to invest in that crisis should crisis. mediators make money on those things or campaign development and to expect it will. and as people who are patients to figure out that it takes humility to know what you don't know before i do this i need to be trained i need to go apprentice under somebody who has been doing this for

quite some time. but people in our organization with irresponsible sexual relationships left mac i'm talking irresponsible. do what you were going to with enthusiastic consent. enthusiastic yes. so what happens continuously after that? and into organization and then you get the fema gallery. not to be there one minute after. it is the drive-by group. the drive-by teachers. this is connected.

to combat liberalism though i have never met a marxist or socialist. and to engage those with the bull struggles. and so many rumors fly. people fly off on the handle on social media.

and to get the peanut gallery to back them up for people and organization ways. in many ways to do so. let that happen without checking. and now to talk about these people are our friends. they are doing dirty are afraid of the backlash i judge myself but i don't want to judge people in the situation and then we will be struggling just to struggle. i'm just bringing this up not to be degenerative order to move forward.

>> we could be struggling for the sake of advancing our movement not our ego were to hear voices or because we think we are right but the truth and the only true then people get killed talking about those that were killed in the aftermath of the soul in 1969 they were created the fbi. the fence. i had all but people with text messages or e-mails with fear and anxiety may not be paved by the state for their enemies of the state and want people to know that we see you and your time will be upset. with what you're doing is not okay. it has to because it is destroying it actually erodes the movements so to your question about the movement

for black lives i would like to see happen in five years after the alarm at the primary and the state of florida. [laughter] speeseventeen i know him from like 2012. and i am excited many of the organizations that are involved. i trust their politics but what they are doing is putting their queens and to the agenda to move the agenda forward and to have a certain level of trust and i think it's okay to have a certain trust will not be the entire florida state legislatur legislature. so organizers we should always focus on issues. what are the issues that they are actually moving on and committed to? otherwise how do you hold them accountable? somebody has to be there when they want to something and

when answers the governor's house house to save medicare for all, legalize marijuana, go up against the nra, all of those things they will comfort him into will be there then you have to convert all of us? because we are here. that is what i'm interested in engaging in because that is not the final destination. just not talking about the safe houses along the way on the underground railroad and she works on a lot of black women's campaign like in georgia and she talks about how elections can be safe

houses for where we try to go. also talking about a defensive strategy and what we're doing and how to understand all of this we need 40 or 50 or 70 years strategies in our movement and also turn up because it is tuesday. that actually we can bang up against the system and all of those strategies and tactics that pat the plan or how you carry out the plan. all of these things to get to where we want to go. i don't mean all ideologies are right but i do think there are multiple strategies can deploy over a week or 50 or 75 years to get us to a place i am interested in where we as

human beings can live in our full dignity with relationships with each other and with the land that we live on. the movement for black lives is a compilation of a lot of organizations like feminist on the ground. black lives matter mobile network all kinds of organizations. across the country and we are connected globally also. connecting with south africa the beginning of this year and i really look to my comrades are thinking about that work and excited about the work in the next five years for the next 12 victories to pivot into real political power to go beyond candidate speeseventeen. >> people ask charlene whatever questions you would

like to ask. please begin to microphone for c-span. >> i want to comment that your pumps match your lipstick left but i have noticed your book title a black, clear, feminist is there weight -- recent there are, is there? i am a gay black beans and recently a political candidate e-mail to me and i responded with your gay and antiabortion but his response is that he had taken position on these issues but for me that would be like a

lifer tuesday the position on that so how do you as a black clearer feminist reconcile all three of those? payment that is a great question how do i reconcile as a and a queer and feminist? nobody has ever asked me that question before the way you hav have. it's not something i will be black today or a feminist the next day or queer tomorrow because it is all political identity as much as my gender or my own religious experiences or my relationships with people, but i choose to be politically black particularly in the u.s. context especially in the u.s. context but i do believe as a black person and it is part of my identity that i believe in black liberation as a

necessary thing the planet will outlast us but for the humanity to continue and that has a queer person to believe in queer politics as we try to decipher between those two things just because you are black and clear and a woman doesn't mean you are revolutionary or radical just because you are not conforming i have seen people do that it is wild. just because you are undocumented or disabled or transgender that doesn't mean you are automatically radical. it doesn't. actually consciously taking that up and doing things to

live out your values in the world because shout out and love i appreciate how people talk about their feminism like beyoncé but that is like part of the steps. not even everybody believes that but i will take you farther than that am past equality to be the gold equity and justice and transformation. take folks to that place to reconcile that all of that when i walk into all-black places i say where are the clans full? where are the women any sort of disability? who was at the table? or mass incarceration? or family members? they are impacted by mass incarceration in various

ways. so i'm always thinking about that of even white folks. and not just skin color but not just because the girl on the back is black but would you believe in and fight for? and to always think about in general i am a thinker and with the walk that i want to make sure i get as close that match my actions. >> anybody else have questions? don't be shy.

>> so you believe that justice can make up for every crime committed? so i am trying to get back into it. and it is an abolitionist group. >> yes. you texted me. i heard a couple of things in that question. number one that leads me to more questions for you like who decides what time it is or how we think about what people do or how they impact other people? it is defined by the state and the government that is in the same harm or violence or abuse someone experience but also a

practice that people engage in for the harm that people do to other people it is about recognizing that people commit to taking action to be held responsible and accountable with the aim to restore some of the harm they have done individually or on a can the level or systemic level. and i'm still learning how to talk about these things but no going to a restorative justice process does not erase what they have gone through. that is not the point. what happened? somebody in this room right now with that professionalism is called. this is so wack it is on their

card i never have to admit i punch this person i never have to apologize. i never have to sit down and talk to them about what i did but i never have to admit to that and that is the possibility of restorative justice that is not the system we have right now. to your family member, why because they never have to do that carted away to prison. they don't to do that own tell you what happened to your loved ones. when they took their last

breath, and that person then also is entering a system with other people have been who have been involved many had this system and a cycle of hurt and pain are then reper wech waited in the prison, in jail over and over again so it doesn't end and many of those people will leave. they will leave prison at some point. a person who is never, who likely has never even done any restoration work for themselves. so we're putting folk who may or have not harmed someone into prison or even in jail if you're not actually found like how many people are in riker's right now who have never been found guilty of a thing. you're there -- and then you leave. and it is just this back and forth process. and so reformative justice is intervention to that process, alternative to that process so that we don't just rely on punishment.

and these, these concrete buildings where sexual violence happens, where physical violence happens, solitary confinement happens, and then people come back into communities. so what do we expect to happen? but the same thing all over again. >> i don't know if you have anything to add miriam? >> you did a great job. i do think -- i think something about that question i always find really interesting which is -- it's that you already have in your mind certain things that are your -- issue. you know? like there are some thing what is in in the world that are so harmful that you believe can never be transformed -- and i'm always like you are allowed to have those feelings. you are allowed to hold that you know that's you. you've decided that there are certain things that cannot be transformed. into something else -- that's not a judgment. i get worried when people do

things like -- so y'all are abolitionist what's your alternative that's not my problem and the reason it is not is because it is not a solitary person's job to transform harm. we live in a culture and society where all implicated we have to have to come up with something different or better if we think current thing that we have doesn't do what it is supposed to do right so it is not up to me to give you alternative. what i try to do -- is to try to figure out a way to allow people who want it to have a space for a beginning towards some healing for them. and i'm going to say, that tj and arch process are in themselves healing often they feel terrible. because you're in that thing working out your pain. and you're addressing suffering. but on other side that have you have potentially an opportunity to get on a path towards healing. so that's what i think matters

about transformative justice. and restorative justice but you don't have to buy into that to be part of a abolitionist organization you can go ahead and somebody does harm to you, call the cops. if it works for you, that's cool. do your thing. i never judge people who have experience harm around their decisions about who and what they want to access. i'm just going to tell you, though, that most people aren't going to be helped by those systems so my interest isn't working with those folks folk who is know that system isn't for them. they can't access it for whatever the reasons are. but they want to way to transform harm that happened in their lives. so i don't think we need to be evangelist for framework. i do think that we have to figure out way to address harm, and i do know this cart system causes more harm than it actually transforms for me that's why i choose abolition as a horizon. because the thing that is beginning on right now --

it ain't helping people who are harmed. and it does never helped me. so that's you know that's where it is at in terms of what i think about that but a lot of times people take a defensive pose about it. what are you defending? you're defending this system -- which sucks -- like terribly -- why are you fighting for this one? figure out something else. with other people -- that's actually address the problem. and i'm not over here to defend anything. i'm just here to try to do what i can to live in the world to the best of my ability. that's it. so i hope that's helpful. >> yeah. >> i'll add one more thing to that is that people often ask, well what are we going to do with the rapist and murderers what are we doing with them now? what are we doing with them now? and so work of -- of abolitionist is to dig into figuring out -- what are we going to do about it because i can tell you state has not figured it out.

is not within interest of the state or a corporation to figure it out. okay, and so that -- that's our work. [laughter] that's right. >> thank you so much for this book and for this conversation. i appreciate you both so much. my question is kind of a writerly question i think i saw something that you said on social media about this book changed so much from what you imagine it to be at the beginning to where it became and talk about that process and how it changed. >> yeah. yeah. so -- i started a blog in like -- i don't know what year it was maybe 2010 or something called the freedom pages. and it was based off of a book -- i wish i had a red dress in which she writes this list it is a fiction book that the main character talked about like what every free woman what a free woman looks like a teen group with teenage girls. and i was like i'll write my list of what i think a free woman looks like and call my freedom block pages and book was

called freedom pages to begin with, and after i finished writing it my editor folks on the press were like -- you should change the name of the book and at that point when you written a whole book it is out the door. like okay so what do you think -- and it is like -- i was like oh, like for real like i wasn't pressed by the suggestion. that we should title the book something diskt. different i wasn't pressed that about it and maybe he did pop off -- so i wasn't as pressed as i could have been so we talked about it. and we landed on a different title. and in which i think is a much better title, and it goes beyond just a title but it also -- tonia -- my literary agent there sitting there told me at the -- and probably was half comments i made about other people like i

need to sees more of you in this book. i know, you know, what other folks have done and other people have said. but in change even in changing title thinking about it drchghtly it was me being more assertive and could and should it was we must. this is what we should do. all of these things and a just being yeah a lot more assertive that was a big part. other way that book changed, it was i think it was more memoirish and i didn't want to write a memoir but a serious theory -- history practice book. like i want to do that. yeah it was very different. it was also at one point more like a manual too. for organize and i was like i don't need to do that but what i have interventions that i can make intellectually when it comes to our practice and something that's not too long because aingt nobody going to read my like 300, 400 page

manifesto all of the things. but i want toed write something that was -- and it wasn't even my idea for it to be hard cover but soft cover a paperback an ed or tore again was like this a serious book and people node to take it seriously so it needs to be hard cover, and -- [laughter] i was like oh, you know, great decision because i wanted something that people will read on the bus and train or whatever, i thought about all of that stuff when i was writing the bock. and i'm happy about where it landed and i'm happy it is much more assertive and there was a whole chapter that was going to be here that's not in here. and i think that's for future for future books. whenever i write another one. yeah. >> your community activist and organizer in chicago just like president obama. did you find any inspiration from him? [laughter]

>> oh. how do i respond to this? there's a camera in here. so we're not the same kind of organizerrer. say that -- not same kind of organizer -- we were trained by some of the same people actually grays was one of the people who trained barack obama when he did his ias training and he was one of the people who i had my first one-on-ones with when i was applying for a job with the ias so we have this connection there and like who trained us and i'm trained by organizeers even though i don't organize and like the fashion anymore. i did not write the book for organizing. i intentionally didn't do that. and -- i'm born and raised in chicago and i never organized there until i moved back home at the -- when right before we stashtd we

started nyf100 he came to chicago and organized there. in a very particular con text, he's right very briefly -- i'm a commit to organizing in chicago. like that is a part of like i'm always i spent past five, with six years really straddling sense with national people action and doing local work in chicago. it has been something i've struggled with king consistentld like really wanted to have liking authentic relationships in chicago, and not just pop off at the across the country about what's happening in chicago but happen to have an address in the city. and like say actually -- i do real work in the city. like for real for real. so it is really important to me. i also think our politics are very, very different. they're very different. i think maybe seven years ago our politics would have been a lot more similar for sure.

like, we would have been neck and neck around what we believe in. but i talk about in the book -- that we are the first like iteration of movement to ever organize under a presidency a black person. nobody is ever contended with that in united states of america ever. so it is inherently different already how did you -- how do you challenge someone who is so revered in chicago by many people and around the world? right, he's like -- our shining king as you know as -- as davis talked about malcolm x people talk about barack obama in that way. people have photographs of him in the jesus and him and like -- exactly like -- that's right. so if you say anything about barack. >> don't you say anything about barack obama. [laughter] it is all of that and so -- if we can sit with and

appreciate, you know, his administration passing health care reform, if we can sit with with his administration having so many women, so many black women we're having lbgtq recession conrad turn up on them, around, around immigrant detention specifically transimmigrant detention if with we can like be excited about all of those things, then we also should be able to contend with fact that his administration deported more people in any other administration in this country's history. [applause] we should be able to -- hold those contradictions that he was a war president. he didn't take the bounty off -- i don't think he has a power to take bounty off of all of our political prisoners assad but could have granted clemency to other people and has power but

didn't do it to the extent that he could have. and a obama presidency, just as much as we're excited about him. and then lastly because of -- the community benefits agreement that we're fighting for in chicago -- right now -- there's a coalition that includes uip100 the oakland community organization, the brownsville organization and calling on city of chicago and the university of chicago and the obama presidential center to sign a community benefit agreement, that says that if e we're going to invest tens of millions, well even more than that, in a presidential center on the south side of chicago, we're going to agree we're going to make some agreements that actually mitigate the harm and the destruction that can cause to the surmounting community, and a so folks should check that out obama cb airings and fighting for and obama made this comment you know trust me. excuse me --

no organizer of their stripe ever listens to anyone who says trust me. especially not their politician -- >> what? if they're a politician and so if you want to call yourself a chicago no chicago organizer -- works their stripes, trust a politician ever. and so i'm probably going to get this trouble and never get invited to any obama foundation events after this talk. but i thought he heard me say this before so they invited me to stuff. who knows -- so -- >> we were i think we're at the end of our time charlene will be around to sign people's books so stay and do that. i do. the to say two quick things before you go, one is that we are in new york right now about to try to elect a new governor. no, sorry. elect a governor. so you know there's a prime

coming up on 17th and we countrily have a guy in office and they'll choose whether he'll stay there or not but in meantime he has enormous power to be able to grant clemency to free people from prison. and he is not using that authority, he has commuted 12 sentences in eight years. he has given about 160 partens that's ridiculous. there are 51,000 people in currently incarcerated in the state. that could be freed by him tomorrow if he wanted to do that. that's how much the clemency power he has. you know can actually be used to good ends. so we -- survived punish new york are pushing for him to release all criminalize survivor and pushing him to do actually much more in terms of releasing aging prisoners or that are currently locked up in prisons that are in there 25, 35, 45 years are now in their 70s. and are still locked up and can be released tomorrow and are dangerous to no one.

he refuses to push his parole boards to do anything arranged that. please, pay attention to what this person has promised and what they are not delivering on. we are asking you to sign some postcards today that julie has encouraging him to actually do his job. so please join us in that. and it's really, really important that we be engaged on local level and not talk about mass incarceration from here. but actually talk about it from the local spaces where we have power and we don't have to worry about jeff sessions and the guy who is currently occupying the white house. thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you charlene. thank you mary, thank you charlene. >> this year booktv marks our 20th year of bringing you to country top nonfiction authors and latest books, find us every week