energy. 213 people were instantly killed. 48 of home were employers of the united states government. >> watch on american history tv, this week on c-span three. the senate judiciary committee has postpone the vote on bret cavanagh nomination to the suit u.s. supreme court. they are holding a hearing to hear from christine ford who accused him of sexually assaulting her in high school. they will also hear from him about the allegation. that hearing is set for 10:00 a.m. eastern. you will be able to see it live on our network, c-span. >> kenneth starr is out with a hanew book as independent counsel for the whitewater and the linsky investigation, the title a memoir of the clinton

administration. you begin and end that book by thinking the people in the independent counsel office. one of those people, bret cavanagh. i wonder your thoughts this morning on this hearing that will be happening on monday what we hearil again from bret cavanagh and his accuser. >> of course i don't know the accuser, but i do know bret cavanagh. it has been reaffirmed in my firmrm belief by the outpouring of support from those who have known him for all these years, not just people who have worked with him come up but people who grew up with him including a lot of women who say this is not the bret cavanagh who we knew we went to school with and so forth. i hope there will be a balance and a judgment that we have a long and distinguished career.

i believe in him and his integrity. the lines are open. speaking of the judgment here from what we will see on monday. who is the burden of proof on on monday? is it on the accuser to prove this happened? is it onl bret cavanagh to prove it didn't happen. >> i don't go will start out this way. i think it's any ultimate judgment. they need to go through a process and they are going through the process mma step back and render ultimate judgment. this is not a courtrt of law. this iss a process of what is right for the american people, what is right for the supreme court, and i hope it will be on the merits looking at the entirety of this record. i do have this am very concerned about the process, i

don't hear people talking about the process that much, this is a very detailed process of confirmation including the review of six former fbi investigative reports and all of this has come to the public lightla within the last six days. i think that's really unfortunate and unfair to the process. >> which of the process be with his hearing coming up on monday? what should be happening right now. >> i think one of the best suggestions is for there to be n a non- circus atmosphere, the best way to do that is to have professionals, very skilled lawyers doing the questioning, obviously the senator should make statements on whatever they want to do, but if we want to get the truth, have very skilled lawyers do just what was done under these watergate hearings that were done many years ago.

>> in the details of these incident are lost to history, how do you end up deciding who to believe. >> i don't know that ultimately this will be just a credibility judgment as opposed to here is an episode or incident from high school. i want to emphasize that. from high school. this is not from college or law school or anything iner the profession, nothing in the office, there's no suggestion of pattern or practice only think all these things are critical. i am suggesting an ultimate judgment about the character of an individual based upon his entire life. >> dayton ohio, democrat, good morning. >> caller: good morning. you pushed hard for the investigation or you lead the investigation into clinton and extramarital affairs, and that preceded into impeachment. now you are pushing back against the idea of

impeachment in regards to the president and now i question that and in regard to cavanagh, i watch the hearings and the line of questioning in regard to cavanagh not receiving confidential letters and also stolen e-mails and confidential letters, i really question cavanagh's integrity based on that line of questioning, and then of course i've always voted in support of corporate interes interest. why would you peach for impeachment with clinton. >> host: we've got your question be to what i did do was what the statute under which i was appointed required me too do. the statute that congress passed required the independent counsel to report to the house ofui representatives with any

substantial credible information came to thewi independent counsel's attention. i simply obeyed the statute. i laid this out in my book called contempt, that part, they reviewed the evidence we have, possible perjury on the part of the president, she decided they needed to go to the three judge court and say this has to be investigated, i cannot turn a blind eye to the possibility of united states president committing as crime. janet reno come via attorney general did her duty and i have a duty as well. the final thing i will say is with respect to impeachment,

what i said in my testimony, i described that longest day for me, it was essentially 12 hours on the hot seat, you can take this referral and do anything you want with it. including just tossing it in the trash. i'm sure number of people wanted to do exactly n that. but, i simply said this is my duty, here it is, now is your judgment. now come about experience some of the final part of why am i saying don't go there now, what i'm saying there about the clinton experience is we learn from our history as a free people, and impeachment was not so wise way to go. dianne feinstein, who is inen the news these days, was pushing for resolution of censure. she wanted too condemn president clinton's conduct, not the morality of the relationship with monica, but his crimes against the rule of law. in this country we believe no

one should be above the law. it's why we have a special counsel now in bob muller. >> the book out last week, ken starr is with us for the next 15 minutes to talk about it this morning. douglas in alabama, independent. >> caller: i tell you what, i'm very disappointed in missus feinstein and her action that she took sending that information to the fbi, i felt like that was very wrong of her to do, she should have done that. she should've waited to make sure everything was appropriate on this lady's part. that's the way everybody does. they think the man is always wrong in every case because the woman always hollers that

the sky is falling. we make you think dianne feinstein should have conducted a pre-investigation before forwarding on the investigation. >> i think she should've sat there and come before the people, and then. [inaudible] >> one of the great things about our country and our system of law is that we believe in our fairness in the supreme court frequently uses the termhe fundamental fairness at the core of due process. i think that's important in the senate process as well when it is engaged in fact-finding and not lawmaking. and so, ier do have concerns about the process, and i think it would have been far better,

i don't know anyone who has said that it was handled well by senator feinstein. basically, to keep this information confidential and anonymously to her, and not to share that with the committee in a timely manner so that it could be considered in a timely manner. i think process is so important, in order for. when we think about it in the criminal justice system, i think we can understand that fair process. in terms of fairness to everyone involved, including the supreme court and the

dignity of the supreme court, this kind of thing should be handled with the really kenai on fairness and i have concerns about the way it has been handled, but we are where we are. i wonder why they waited so long. she is a trump hater. before these states voted for trump and the democrats have been after him all this time, this gal should've come up, she's known where he was but she hates trump and so she's gonna take down this good man. this is not the christian way to work. >> i understand the concern we have in this country. statutes of limitation, if you have a complaint about something then you should in fact bring it forward but i'm

not going to criticize the accuser. i heard a united states senator, a very distinguished new senator from alabama say he had been in the process of reviewing the entire body of work of bret cavanaugh and that's as it should be. look at all of his judicial writings in his 12 years of service.

look at his speeches, his wall review articles, the vast body of work. look at his service undert president bush and in the independent counsel's office. that is what a fair mature representative democracy, i fear what is unfolding now with a bet of a mob and circus atmosphere, and i hope wise sages in the senate, we want step back and say he bought very strong feelings about this issu issue. i think this is the right thing to do looking at the entirety of the record. i know bret cavanaugh, i worked with him, i saw him day in and day out in the office, i didn't know him in high

.school. i didn't know him in college or law school but i've known him since he was an adult professional. what you are seeing is an outpouring ofou commentary were the people who know him and say this is completely out of character for bret cavanaugh and that is my sense two. as an employer, i from time to time heard complaints about sexual harassment, not a hint of anything. we saw that the confirmation hearings. he's taken into account the world's biggest body cannot good morning. we lost tom.

>> the reason i'm calling is because 72 years ago i was five years old, it was the last of school in the early part of june and i was coming home with my little report card and a boy started chasing me and i started running and i ran into an alley next to a church and the boy came up to me, pushed me against the wall and pulled out my panties and when he did that i shoved really hard and i flew across the street to the apartment building where i lived and to this day i have always remembered that and i never

told not a single adult. my father was my only parent at that time and i guess he told me things on how to defend myself and not have people bother me but i was afraid to tell anyone because i knew my father would probably try to find out about that boy and probably hurt him, but the whole point is i never ever forgot the incident , i saw the boy years later because we moved away from that neighborhood, i remember his face. years later after that i saw him as a young man running for city councilman, he was like this outstanding young citizen at that time. the whole point that i'm making is that at the age of 77, i never forgot that.

i was very lucky, of course the kid was only eight or nine of the time, but the point is it was a violation. >> thanks for sharing your story. >> i must say, these are searing experiences and what you've just described is a horror that has remained with don't think anyone dein this process that's neunfolding will gainsay will doubt the importance of hearing a story and for the process of healing and the like when these kinds of episodes are alleged, my point is very simple, the character that we know, and obviously i don't know the person who is running for the slick counsel and your story, which is a very powerful story, but i do know bret cavanaugh and not only do i know bret cavanaugh but many women who have servedth with him in the office have

known him and worked with him and have come forward in this outpouring, it was an unblemished record before it and that is the record, your city council person, i respect what it is that you're saying, what i think the public should appreciate is those of us who have known us for decades and who work with him everys single day never saw any indication of a character that was anything but upright and honest in treating everyone,

especially women. i think that came out in this n confirmation hearing, betty went the extra mile when he saw the impediments to professional progress of women. we have seen all these law clerks come forward, the women law clerks come forward and say complete dignity, complete respect and more than that, he encourage them and help facilitate. what we are hearing is something totally out of character for bret cavanaugh about the hundreds of us know and admire. >> what is your feeling on the "me too" movement. >> inc. was overdue. here's the position of power we think about some of the folks who have lost their jobs frankly, i know this in the boo book, with all due respect, it has many talents,

bill clinton was never called to account, including for the possible rate of someone who said i was raped by him and not in high school, but when he was the attorney general getting the governorship. i think president clinton is likewise being called to account for the abuse of power directed toward women by powerful men. he met bob, hometown illinois, republican. do not good morning john, we love cspan, is a pleasure to talk to you. you did a terrific job in the whitewater investigation. the senate didn't go along with it, but i'm concerned about our special counsel now not doing a very good job. the fbi, d.o.j., cia are up to their ears in spying and leaking and all kind of things

, possibly classified, do you think it's time to get a special counsel to investigate the investigator? >> i appreciate the concern, but let me say several things, one, i know bob muller and i have confidence in his integrity, just as i served with bret cavanagh, and bob is marine and had an exemplary career as head bret cavanaugh as a public servant who i believe in his integrity. i have to express concerns about some of the senior people around him in terms of their over partisanship. just as i j say in the book, the

system works. we agree with what eventually happened, whether you agree with what the senate did or the house of representatives did during the clinton phase in the clinton years, these checks and balances work. bill clinton was held accountable. he may not like the judgment or he may love the judgment. if someone i have great confidence in, the inspector general who is a career civil servant and is totally honest, very able, he will get to the bottom of things andab he has the power and hasin done this to refer matters to the criminal division for possible prosecution. prthe cia, likewise.

the senate judiciary committee was very much involved in looking atch certain issues pertaining to the investigation. i would counsel the american people to be patient, allow this process to run in the checks and balances in washington d.c. are in place. >> in mapleton illinois, good morning matt good morning. i'm going to give you a short bio paradigm and army veteran as well as a retired police officer inra california. the reason i brought thatt up is because the rules we lived under then were extremely harsh and you could be terminated for a lot less than what we see in politics. i actually should thank mr. stark because i was there during the clinton hearings and i couldn't care less, but the fact is there's action and

reaction. you shouldct be proud because you started something that is continuing today and you are going to see that we can't go back. when you start telling people about morality which is a very touchy subject,bj i never approach it, and now you want to see things change ae little bit, as far as i'm concerned, he did like, but we can put all these people in congress, anybody in public office, put them under oath, newt gingrich, sound familiar, those are the kind of things you want.

>> since you are in the land of lincoln. politics could be a little bit ugly. this is not aboutt morality. the book is not about morality. it's a country that believes in the constitution and the rule of law. the principle that no one is above the law. some of the names you mention, i'm not going to comment onen any specific situation but one of the checks and balances in our country is the press and i'm a fervent believer in the freedom of the press which is enshrined in the first amendment. the truth is gonna come out and then the american people can assess and evaluate. the truth came out and during the clintonay investigation to

be somewhat harsh but is about what i'm gonna say is absolutely true and i demonstrated it inat the book president clinton did everything that he could from coming out with the truth. >> he says about a moral issue, no it wasn't. it's about whether he committed perjury and whether he embarked on a process. that's important. this is the president of the united states. people are called to account for their actions and i think that's healthy in this democracy. not long after, practicing law here in washington d.c. in teaching at new york university so it's on my way to get the shuttle to new york. it turns out this cabdriver is

from the west african country, i want to protect everyone from the country. in my country this never could've happened. our leaders can do anything they want. they are not called to account. that's not america. one of the reasons he wrote this book. >> i was fired as president of baylor university and fortunately i was dismissed. i was not fired as chancellor. i held two positions. the board of regents made a determination in light of issues in the light of sexual violence and the like and possible violations of title ix which is a very important law they needed new leadership, i then resigned as chancellor of the university because i felt they could no longer work.

i immediately said no to law forms. i wrote aie book about my baylor experience, i was finishing that project in late 2016 and hillary lost the election. the 20 years coming coming up and the entire price process. i said it's now or never to write the story. fred irvine is in las vegas. good morning.

mike my comment is, i hear ken starrou. i think he has demonstrated exemplary character but the same thing could be said for like ted bundy. fred they stood up for his character and elected officials, i'm not saying he is ted bundy, but i'm saying that they did not know the real ted bundy. we got your point. >> with all respect, i

disagree with comparison. we are talking about a situation where someone was carrying on activity as an adult. he was essentially living to laws. lives. bret cavanaugh has been an exemplary public service. ted bundy wasn't. he hasn't gone through confirmation, he never went through as far as i know, a single fbi background check.br ubfred the real bret cavanaugh is the bret cavanaugh we sought confirmation hearings and the real bret cavanaugh. people who have went to high school with him, young people hav our young mothers, they say this is not the character of bret cavanaugh, this was not his character in high school. let's just look at the high

school. if the charges about whatli happened in high school turn be true. >> i'm not going to answer hypothetical question. it will be his best recollectio recollection, he's not denying that and episode happened, he's denying he's the perpetrator. i do not want to criticize or attack the accuser. but i hope there will be fairness to everyone involved in the process and in fact, we want fairness and families.

let's have fairness in the process.ot we are talking about the dignity of the supreme court of the united states and the allegation, a single episode in high school. i think people just need to look at the balance. >> republican, good morning. edi have two or three points. one point being this woman went to a therapist, i don't know for how many years, but several years ago. there was something that happened with a bunch of kids that went to therapist, and they convince these children they had been sexually molested. later on, it was found out to be untrue, they ruined a lot of people's lives or at least the therapist did and i'm

wondering how much the therapist had to do with this being brought out and it's very suspect and she went last minute to do anything about it. >> one of the great presidents of the past whose words i frequently quote is lincoln in his second inaugural. we all remember theth gettysburg address, but he appealed to the higher nature, the highe higher angels of our being and we want fundamental fairness and partse of fairness is to make sure individual who is the subject of accusations is treated fairly and dispassionately so the example that you use is a real one.

i'm not to make any comparisons with the current situation, but you're absolutely right, some lives were ruined by false accusations. i have been involved with the wonderful project called the innocence project. we want fairness in this country. that's what i'm crying for here, to look again.

[inaudible] he has this entire lifetime of witnesses rallying around him and saying yes, we grew up with bret, we knew bret then, we know him now, this is not bret cavanaugh. thanks for taking my call. i totally agree with the last caller. since diane feinstein knew about it, she is a disgrace and embarrassment at the 11th hour they come out with this just to destroy his character. i totally agree with you, his character is without blemish. come on. this is ridiculous. it's like a wood shunt.

>> i'm knocking to get into any characterizations at all. i appreciate your comments and i have indicated i think there is a genuine process concern. i wish diane feinstein would have been fair to her fellow sitting senators. to bret cavanaugh, of course. to the supreme court, of course. look what happened. she chose not to act on this information thatin she had, so she had it in july and she doesn't act on it until september. it gives credence to those who believe this is political. it gives credence to those who believe this was a last-ditch effort. while i'm not saying that, this kind of process violation as i see it, this failure to

respect orderly process, and just to say we don't want to talk about the process, we just want to focus onn these allegations. >> what about the desire of the accuser not to want to come out in july, that she didn't want her identity known and she was concerned she was going to lose control of the story. >> i respect that, but on the other hand, if you make the information known to the united states senator, it is as we say in the law, reasonably foreseeable that that information would need to be assessed by the fbi, by the committees on staff or whatever. i don't think you can say here's a set l of allegations and oh, by the way, i have preferred to remain confidential. i understand the humanity of it, but we talked about the process. were talking about the most

important part of the united states of american we have an individual making these comments at the 11th hour's and the description of the alleged episode not being known to the senate when the senate judiciary committee has a process. >> about 25 minutes (his book contempt, memoir of the clinton investigation, a lot of calls waiting for you. california, melody is waiting, democrat. good morning. >> caller: good morning. how are you. n >> doing well. >> caller: i have a couple points to bring up. i don't understand, you talk about morality and different things, number one, i don't know why you continue on with the clintons, and number two, a woman who has been violated, which i have been violated, it's not easy to comego out, just because she waited till the 11th hour, it's hard to come out and say you know what, i was abused by somebody. you take that in considerationu

and no it convinces you, do you have any answers to that? >> i understand that it's not easy. i'm not saying that it is by any means. any violation of human dignity, the dignity of the human body is a very serious matter. we have bret cavanaugh saying i did not do any such thing and we have many people saying bret cavanaugh is not the person. if the person, the accuser who has had a very interesting career, if the person did in fact have something happen to her, i understand that is not easy for her to come out, as you well put it, but were now talking, not about individual episodes but an episode that is affecting the country and raising them come up the question of well, who is bret

cavanaugh. i want to come back to her. it's part of our history. we would love to know the history. this is the inside story. here's a story about our views with respect with the disappearance which constituted obstruction of justice. that story needed to be told. it's never been told because we didn't bring those charges and we didn't bring those charges because we didn't believe we had the evidence

admissible in cour court. we believed hillary clinton had committed those crimes. the story needs to be told he used the m word to begin with, morality, i'm not talking about morality at all. i'm talking about the rule of law. i think that's what the special counsel statute was talking about and what janet reno was talking about when she said to the special division, three judges, three federal judges, star needs to investigate whether crimes against the rule of law including perjury and obstruction of justice. >> you can see the rest of this discussion online at cspan.org. we leave now and go live capitol hill as senate democrats are briefing reporters after party lunches.