>> full schedule available at booktv.org. this is live coverage. [inaudible conversations] >> welcome everybody.

i am david moscowitz, i am head of government relations and public policy at wells fargo and i'm pleased to be here with you today. we are pleased to serve for the eighth year as a charter sponsor of the book festival and prouder to watch it grow to the incredibly popular, impactful event it has become. i wouldn't be surprised [applause] >> wouldn't be surprised to see us move on to some bestseller lists today. it's even more important to keep the book festival a free event for the community. the real purpose is literacy which leads to learning an opportunity which matches our goal of helping our community succeed. learning to love books and learning are what the book festival are all about. in this session, - - will discuss his biography of ulysses grant. if we are lucky, certain other popular founding fathers. [laughter] >> one thing i learned from the

story of president grant was how people can evolve and through persistence and hard work and knowledge and overcome their imperfections. it's an incredible story that reminded me a person of goodwill can learn from their mistakes and reach their potential. i hope you enjoy this session. it's my privilege to introduce the deputy director of national outreach at the library of congress in our session moderator,colleen - - . [applause] >> thank you. welcome to the 18th annual national book festival. i am pleased to be joined on page 5 launcher now. is anstage by ron - -. in 2015, won the national humanities medal. his book on alexander hamilton

was the inspiration for the award-winning musical for which ron worked as a historical consultant.the library of congress is honor to have you join us today at the national book festival. [applause] >> it's worth noting that our cochair of the festival, david rubenstein was supposed to conduct this interview today. due to scheduling changes, become of senator mccain's funeral, he was unable to do so. but i have david's questions here today and i just happened to be a big admirer of ulysses s grant and ron's books so i think we will have a fantastic time at the book festival. before we talk about grant, we need to ask a question about alexander hamilton. how could we not? lin manuel miranda first

approached you and said he wanted to create a hip-hop musical based on your book, what was your reaction and did you think it would become a cultural phenomenon? >> people say when you are writing the alexander hamilton biography, did you have any idea it would be turned into a hip-hop musical. i always think the question answers itself. when i first met lin manuel miranda in the fall of 2008, he was co-storing incostarring in musical, the height. it asked me to be this historical advisor to this yet nonexistent show. i said you mean you want me to tell you when something is wrong. he said yes, i want historians to take this seriously which was music to my ears. i was a little skeptical but i was quite intrigued. i thought nothing could be more delightful than to watch the evolution of a broadway musical. i was a lifelong theater goer and the offer to be on the other side of the lights was

absolutely irresistible.it turned out to be a rocket ride far beyond anything i could have anticipated. >> so moving on to grant, you penned a definitive biography of grant. i have to start with a cute question but has a good story. who's buried in grant's tomb? [laughter] >> when i first started working on the book in 2011, i found that approximately half of people when i told i was working on grant shot back, who's buried in grant's tomb? so naturally i got interested in the arts. i traced it back to groucho marx. and some of you are old enough to remember had a - - he was dismayed that someone could not answer a single one of the questions. so he decided he would ask the

contestant the question that every contestant could answer. that question was who's buried in grant's tomb. to his astonishment, half of the guests got it wrong. such is the staying power of a great comedian that the line has become a part of popular culture. >> let's start at the beginning with grant. where was born, what were the conditions of his upbringing and what was his family like? >> he grew up in a series of small towns and southwestern ohio, near cincinnati. point placid was right on the ohio river. the significance of that was it separated the free state of ohio from the slaveowning state of kentucky. on winter evenings, the ohio would freeze over an refugee fugitive slaves would spring to freedom. important terms of thinking of grant later.he cryptically straddling the world of both north and south and understood both of their cultures. he came from a fairly

well-to-do family. his father was mayor of one of those three towns. his father was really the vein of his life. he was very pushy and domineering character. and then grant went to west point. he didn't want to but his father wanted him to go. his father saw west point as a free form of vocational education. >> how did he do at west point? >> fairly well. i would say his performance was lackluster. he was 21st in the class of 39. there was already considerable attrition before that. he became famous for two things at the academy. one was he was probably the best sportsmen of his generation, if not century at the academy. he established a high jumping record. they set the bar and more than five feet and grant managed to clear.

he was also very good at drawing. this may seem strange and insignificant but, it was important for generals to be able to draw maps during battles. grant was very good at lying. during the civil war, he had an uncanny ability to visualize the battlefield. and it comes from this visual sense he had that was first reflected in his capacity to draw.>> after west point, he eventually ends up as a quartermaster in the mexican war. why is his service as a quartermaster, why does that turn out to be important? >> extremely important because being quartermaster in mexico gave grant a nuts and bolts knowledge of the logistics of an army. looking ahead to the civil war, grant would be in charge of 4-5 different armies stressed the costs 1300 mile front. his mastery of logistics and the railroad and the telegraph

enabled him to supervise these vast armies. it goes back to being quartermaster in mexico and her like? >> grant comes from this abolitionist family. he marries into a slaveowning family. the kernel becomes the vein of his life and was very hard on grant. julia was very outgoing and vivacious. julia always had a vision of grant future that he sometimes did not have himself. during the 1850s, he's trying and failing to establish himself as a farmer in st.

louis. he's failed at a real estate venture. julia has a dream. she dreams that her husband was going to be president of the united states. when she tells her friends and family about this dream, everyone laughs. nothing seemed more preposterous. this man is struggling to support a wife and four children. julia knew. >> you spent a fair amount in the book talking about grants struggle with alcohol. what did you conclude? did he have a problem with drinking and what evidence did you use to draw those conclusions? >> the debate has always been was he a drunkard or not? i was on the term drunkard was a loaded moralistic term because it implies a person who is dissipated and irresponsible and is gleefully indulging this

vice. he was an alcoholic. i say that because he could never have just one drink. i say that because even one glass of alcohol changed his personality but this is something he struggled against his entire life.he was a member of the temperance - - when he was in his 20s. the reason i think they were so much difficult with previous writers and his drinking. he could go days without having a drink but he would go on these vendors. it's a problem he struggles with. by the time he becomes president, he's largely conquered it but it's certainly a problem that bedeviled him throughout the civil war. >> that causes him to leave the military. it precipitates in exit from the military.

>> he was assigned to only, bleak garrisons in oregon and in california where he could not afford to bring his wife and children. he was lonely, he was depressed. he starts drinking. in 1854, he shows up at her - - table drunk and is drummed out of the service. so there was an active rumor mill. all of these stories of his drinking will follow him into the civil war and will very much color how people see him. i think were it not for that history, all of these stories about grants drinking. abraham lincoln may have - - sooner in the war to act as general. >> you have a poignant description of him. he ends up on the streets of st. louis selling fireworks to support his family. how does that happen? >> try making it as a farmer.

julia's wedding gift was to receive 60 acres which grant worked. he was very industrious but he couldn't make a go of it. he and the takingfirewood , 10 miles into st. louis and he walks beside the wagons. people who saw him in those days selling firewood said, he was bearded. disheveled. unkept looking. one of his old army buddies ran into him on the street and was really shocked by his unkept appearance. he said to him grant, what are you doing? his response was, i'm solving the problem of poverty. one christmas he had to pawn his wants to buy christmas presents for his family. this was circa 1857. the civil war breaks out in 1861. >> then something happens, fort

sumter. you're right he eventually joined the infantry in illinois and gets a position in the union army. you write a change overcomes grant. what was that change? >> when the civil war broke out, there was a desperate shortage of officers. about one third of the army officers were from the south so many of them, most of them defected to the confederacy. there was a crying need for trained people. grant still had that war from west point stored in his mind. he had fought with great distinction in the mexican war. had been assigned to four garrisons before the civil war. and so, his efficiency and his military knowledge needed to come to the four point his rise gives new meaning to the term, meteoric. two months after the onset of the civil war, he's kernel. four months he's the bridget air general. then he's a major general. and by the end of the civil

war, this man who had been working as a clerk in his father's store in illinois in 1860. the man who seemed like a viable failure in life is general in chief of the union army with 1 million soldiers under his command. far and away, the largest military establishment in the country up until that time. >> he had some early victories that catches the eye of lincoln. >> absolutely. very often, the history of the civil war there's a disproportionate focus on virginia. it seems like the confederacy is winning battle after battle. grant was winning one victory after another. in early 1862, he has twin battles against twin ports. in the northwest corner of tennessee. for henry and donelson. they were significant for the following reason, fort henry was on the tennessee river and fort donelson on the cumberland

river. those two rivers penetrated deep into the confederacy. particularly grants victory at fort donelson. was one of three times he captured an entire confederate army. it also led to a new nickname for grant because the confederate general inside the fort was simon buckner who wants to send a message to grant. he wanted commissioners appointed to negotiate a truce and grant wrote back, no terms except unconditional and immediate surrender will be accepted. i propose to move upon your - - immediately. he became unconditional surrender grant. it was the first large-scale victory of the war for the north. >> in late 1862, he issues order number 11 which expels the jews from his military district in the south because

he believes there engaged in an illegal lack market cotton ring. was grant anti-somatic or did he regret that decision later on? >> he regretted it almost is as he issued it. as it is lincoln sought to immediately override. it was an inexcusable thing to do. people know that piece of the story. what they don't know is grant spent the rest of his life atoning for that action. as president, he appointed more jews than all of the other presidents combined. he became the first president to speak on on human rights abuses. in both cases was because of persecution of the jews but one time in russia and one time in poland. then most remarkable of all things were sitting in washington d.c., during the last year of his second term, he was invited to the dedication of a synagogue. a very tiny synagogue.

grant went with his son and was a u.s. senator. it was a three-hour ceremony. here's the president of the united states with a congregation of 30-40 people. one hour into the dedication of the synagogue, the elders went over to grant and said mr. president, we are very touched you would come to this humble function. you can leave now in good conscience. grant insisted on staying the full three hours. reached into his pocket and gave a donation to the synagogue. it was one of the pleasurable things writing about him. he was not a prejudiced man. not a man full of hatred. you can read statements - - hair-raising atrocious things but you don't see this and grants life at all. luckily, he apologized and

atoned for it the rest of his life. >> he has a number of successors. and then he has to victory at vicksburg. why is vicksburg so impressive? it was really a daring capture. >> new orleans, baton rouge and memphis had fallen to union forces. it meant that the one great citadel, the great bastion on the necessary river was vicksburg. it was located at that time, there was a bend in the mississippi that forced folks to slow down. there were seven miles of every elaborate fortification. it seemed like this in pregnant fortress. he had a very daring strategy to take vicksburg. under cover of night, he had ironclad transports come down the river, despite heavy selling from the confederates. he also marched troops down the bank of the mississippi.

they then crossed over vicksburg to the only dry land in that area. and then grant has this lightning campaign. he wins five major victories in a three-week period. surrounds vicksburg, lays siege and vicksburg surrenders at the same time as the victory of gettysburg. and for a second time, grant i captured an entire confederate army more than 30,000 soldiers. at that point, the union not only controlled the mississippi but it bisected the confederacy. a lot of these supplies, particularly horses and livestock came from the mississippi. so the confederate army was suddenly cut off from this major source of supplies. and that was grant. >> when did president lincoln bring grant east to lead the union army? >> in february 1864, thomas passes a bill reinstating the

title of lieutenant general. the only one who ever held that was george washington. and grant becomes that lieutenant general. it's a wonderful story because in march 1864, he comes to washington. although lincoln loved grant, he never actually set eyes on him before. he happened to arrive the same day that lincoln was having a reception at the white house in the blue room. grant goes in. lincoln warmly embraces him. there was such pandemonium in the room because grant was such a hero. that they urged grant to stand up on the sofa so people could see him because he was relatively short. he stands up on the sofa, he is perspiring profusely. so that people could see him. he was always a little bit socially awkward. grant later said the hottest campaign he ever fought was

standing on that sofa in the white house.[laughter] >> so grant was impressive on a tactical level, operational level and on a strategic level. how rare was that to find all three qualities in a general and how did he compare to robert ely in that regard? >> - - had an interesting comment when he was comparing grant and lee. they said his strategy embraced the constant, lee strategy - - [indiscernible]. lee had to inflict so much pain on union forces that the northern public would weary and decide to give up the war. grant actually had to capture and destroy robert e lee's army. he really had a strategic vision because the various union armies and different theaters of war had been operating independently of each other. grant coordinated their movements so that he turned them into a single fighting force.

he saw the way to wear down the confederacy was by having union forces simultaneously attack different confederate armies to that they could not switch reinforcements from one to another. he finally pins robert ely down in richmondrobert e lee . he said, ulysses s grant would have attacked the bedroom in the kitchen. i'm not sure what he meant but - - in terms of attacking the kitchen. that goes back to grant the quartermaster. but what he did with lee if he began systematically to cut off every railway line and every canal feeding supplies to lee's army. finally starting it outand forcing them to flee . and forces surrender.

that was then the third confederate army that grant captured. robert ely never captured a single union army. >>. [indiscernible] >> it's the most touching part of the story because he refuses to allow his soldiers to celebrate. is very generous. the confederate soldiers are are starving. he issues rations to feed them. really i think the most beautiful passage and grants memoir is about the meeting at - - because grant instead he was sad and depressed when he met lee. he writes, i felt like anything rather than rejoicing over the downfall of a faux who fought with such ballervalor and suffe

such hardship for a cause. even though the cause was the worst any army could have fought for. i think it's a beautiful statement. we've had a prolonged discussion about the confederate monuments and i think grant paved the way. on one hand in that passage, he pays homage to the bravery of the confederate soldiers and they were brave. they were quite extraordinary in many battles. at the same time, the cause for which they were fighting, the perpetuation of slavery was one of the worst causes people could fight for. i think that the humanity, the sadness and balance he brought to that subject is one that should stay with us. >> grant does not accept president lincoln's invitation to attend ford's theater. would history perhaps unfolded differently had grant been there? >> quite a story because late march 1864, abraham and - - go

down to city quarters. mary lincoln who showed increasing signs of mental instability, mary lincoln froze a jealous fit. she imagines the young wife of general - - is flirting with her husband. she starts to berate her can't figure out what's going on. and burst into tears. julia grant was there. she intervenes to try to protect young mrs. - - and we all know what happens when you try to intervene in the middle of a fight. then mary lincoln turned on julia grant and turned on her so angrily that the night that the lincolns went to ford's theater, lincoln thought it was important that the public see the victorious generals at the same time. julia grant laid down the law to husband and said i refuse to go to ford's theater if mary lincoln will be there. so they made their excuses.

they went off to burlington, new jersey where they had a house. one of the great what is of history if ulysses s grant had been in that box at fortford's theater with lincoln. would he have had his security detail there. or, it's entirely possible that - - would have killed grant as well as lincoln. >> how did grant managed to win the republican nomination in 1868? had shehe showed an aptitude fo politics previously?>> there was a guessing game in terms of what grants party affiliation was. his only vote was for james buchanan for president. no one knew exactly where he stood. he was in the right place at the right time.yet a certain symbolic standing in america as

the victor of the war and also reconciliation between north and south. what happened in 1868, there was a failed attempt. they didn'tdid impeach - - pres johnson which weekend the radical republicans in congress. grant was in a position to straddle both of the wings of the republican party. still have his immense prestige from the war. he did not campaign openly. he had a funny way of not campaigning for things and sort of putting him in the position where things just happened to him. >> and his first time of office, the 15th amendment is activeactivated. there's a 1856.

it starts as a social club of confederate veterans and they start wearing their old uniforms and drilling. it becomes a militaristic secret organization. and of course they start putting on robes and hoods at night on horseback and terrorizing people. nothing terrified the white south more than the black man. so the terror was very much directed against black voting or registering to vote. there was no southern sheriff who would arrest a member of the kkk. there was no southern jury that would convict or white that would testify. there were hundreds, maybe thousands of murders of blacks that went on prosecuted.

grant met a very crusading attorney general. ackerman brought 3000 indictments and got more than 1000 convictions. it was his greatest achievement as president. the kkk we know is from the resurgence of the clan from the 19 teens and 20s. and they borrowed a lot of the techniques and ideology of the original kkk. >> why were there so many corruption scandals was he complicit? did he turn a blind eye or was he just oblivious to what was going on? >> he was incredibly nacve.i will tell a story from his childhood. when he was a boy, his father wanted to buy a horse so he told ulysses to go to this farm

and he gave him instructions. he said offer $20 to the farmer. if he doesn't take it off for $22.50. and he still doesn't take it, offer $25. so ulysses goes to the farmer and says my father says i should offer $20 and if you don't take it i can offer $22.50 and if you don't take that i will offer $25. so there was a learning curve. scrupulous people began to spot grant a mile away. in the so-called whiskey freeing scandal, brewers were updating this tax by paying off revenue agents. one of the people involved was grant's chief of staff. when babcock is being investigated, grant writes a letter to babcock's wife

saying, i have full face in her husband's integrity. i've had the most intimate and confidential relations with her husband for 14 years. he says i can't believe that he's not a trustworthy person that i imagine. guess what? he was. he was kind of like chief of staff. at the desk right outside grants office. he would review incoming and outgoing mail. grant fired him or reassigned him. he became inspector of - - on the florida coast. >> grant goes on a trip around the world with his wife for 2 and a half years. how was he received on this trip? >> during that almost and a half year period, he meets with virtually every head of state in the world. queen victoria. windsor castle. prince of bismarck.

berlin. the pope at the vatican. alexander ii and st. petersburg. then he goes to the far east and the crowds are immense. like 250,000 people at a time would turn out. the emperor of japan would never actually touch people. when he saw grant, he stepped over and shook hands with grant which was unheard of. grant actually pioneers a certain post presidential role that would be followed by other presidents. he arbitrated a dispute over offshore islands between japan and china. so he comes back with really this sort of great reputation. very much enhanced. he's become a statesman on the world stage. it's amazing. >> after trying to get the nomination again in 1880, not winning it.

he decides to move to new york city and try his hand in the investment world. how does that turn out? >> will again with money, disastrously. he formed a partnership with a young man named ferdinand ward was 21 years old. they created a partnership called grant and ward. it was only time grant allowed his name to be used in a business. grants name attracted a lot of money. for those who don't know this story, ferdinand was the bernie made off of his day. it was a ponzi scheme. he was using money from new investors to pay at - - [indiscernible]. grant imagined he was a multimillionaire and he wakes up one day to find out that instead of being a multimillionaire. he is worth $80 and julia is

worth $130. not only had his fortune been wiped out, all of his children had invested. he had a lot of cousins, friends. the entire grant family was engulfed in this catastrophe. >> in 1884, grant falls ill. what was wrong with him and what was the prescribed treatment? >> the illness coincides with the exposure with ferdinand ward. grant one day, they had a house in long branch, new jersey. julia serves him a plate of peaches and he bites into one of the peaches and says, ouch. that peach just on me for some reason. it was the first time he realized there was a problem with his throat. he finally consulted his doctor in new york found a cancerous mass on his throat. anton

and tongue. it was incurable so grant realized this was a terminal illness and he was petrified that when he died, julia would be left destitute. because they lost all their money. he decided to do something he swore he wouldn't do.he wrote his memoirs. during the last years of his life in excruciating pain and with his mind being followed by opiates. he wrote a memoir that is considered one of the greatest memoirs of the english language. >> his publisher was mark twain. in one letter, he writes grant wrote 10,000 words today. it kills me these days to write 5000 words. he couldn't believe grants productivity. this memoir really poured out of him and many people imagine that twain wrote the memoirs.

the style is flawless, no man can improve upon them. >> why did he die in the city and what was his funeral like? >> they were living on east 66th street in manhattan. his funeral, i was just thinking about it today because of the john mccain memorial gathering at national cathedral. when grant was buried in new york, he and julia felt very grateful to new york and the city provided this beautiful spot in the new riverside park. grants funeral spoke to the public very much in the way that john mccain's memorial service has been speaking to the public. that is, at grants funeral, 1.5 million people flooded new york city. the parade went on for five hours. but grant and his seemingly made afamily made a statement.

it was a north and south reconciliation. they were major confederate generals. it was part of his reconciliation theme. the stonewall jackson brigade from virginia came up and marched. black regiments marched in the parade because grant had been instrumental during the civil war in terms of recruiting and training and equipping black soldiers. this was really grants final statement from beyond the grave. i think grant in many ways reminds people of what people can say about john mccain in terms of his patriotism.his bravery. his dedication to public service. the fact that he distinguished himself in civilian service and

military service. reminds us of what old-fashioned patriotism should look like. >> last question before we take questions from the audience. as we reconsider grant as you have in this magnificent book, what should we learn from grant and his leadership? >> i think one reason people have responded. all the other people i've written about, they were sort of built for success. that great drive, energy and focus. grant didn't. i think people are responding to the book because the highs are as high as any story but the lows are a lot lower. this is a story of light and shadow. a story about a man who suffered repeated failures and setbacks. in fact, i was coming into the room, someone said, i loved your grant book.it's the greatest story about a comeback. repeated comebacks in his life.

success was the greasy pole and he kept slipping back down and work his way back up. >> if there are any questions for ron. we'd be happy to take a few. >> hello, very good book. loved it. just want to ask you a quick comment on grants relationship with george armstrong custer and how you described that relationship and the book. >> it was a very troubled relationship. grant was very critical of custer and blamed him for the massacre at - - said he was not following orders and put himself and his men in harm's way. custer had also been an outspoken critic of grant as president. that certainly helped to fuel the animosity.

>>. [indiscernible] >> i'm going to be to questions by becky. if grant had gone by his first name, would anything be different? secondly, what is happening with the adaptation? i know someone bought the rights. >> grants name, he was born - - ulysses grant. which gave him the unfortunate initials as hug. he was mercilessly teased and became just plain ulysses. then when a local congressman nominated him from west point, he bungled the name and send it as ulysses s grant. his own wife didn't know what the s stood for. rollback this funny letter and

says the s stands for absolutely nothing. it's not going to be a hip-hop musical.[laughter] but it will be a feature film and it will be directed by steven spielberg which is very exciting. [applause] >> produced by leonardo dicaprio which is also exciting. looks like i will again be the historical consultant. [applause] >> you've written about washington and hamilton and now grants. are there any lessons you've learned through studying these that you think is worth sharing? >> it's a very good question be one strange thing when people have asked me about a common denominator to these lives. 20 with every person i've written about, they had to cope

at an early age with a difficult and even impossible parents. i know that sound like a strange response to your question. there was the washington with a very self-centered mother. hamilton with the absentee father. grant with the overbearing father. there's something about a parent that shapes character and forces people to be self-reliant at an early age. all of the people i've written about because they had such difficult parents, they never talked about it. sometimes i imagine if i could conjure them to life and ask questions, i think i'd want to zero in on the family dynamics. >>. [indiscernible] >> i'm sorry, not sure i

understood the question.>>. [indiscernible] >> did he help catch him? >> no. what happened was, grant was inexcusably complacent that ford andferdinand award put securities in the safe that only anand had access. grant should have never allow that. he would sign letters without reading the letters point grant felt because they were sophisticated wall street people, who were investing with ward that he was absolutely certain that he must be sound. he should have been suspicious because some of the people were getting like 18-20 percent per month. if that doesn't raise warning flags right there. i wish i could tell you that grant had been part of exposing

ward but he was not. what happened is the bank that was lending money went bust and then the whole scheme blew up. >> time for one more question. >> someone whose legacy has been unjustly tarnished, what has been like to write this overdue - - about grant. >> it's been nice because i felt he was suffering from this image that he was this cruel, total butcher and that's why he was a successful general. in fact, there were six union generals fought against robert e lee before grant with the same advantage of manpower and material. they could not defeat leave. grant could. i felt his presidency had been portrayed as a failed presidency and i think in many ways it was successful in terms of protecting african american communities in the south.

i thought there would be more resistance but people accepted the portrait of grant more readily than i thought would happen. so i'm happy for that although i was surprised. >> please join me in thanking - -. [applause]