there are still many things out there that we have to do as a society. we are not doing enough. >> you are not accomplish the solution we need. opioids is a terrible problem. it is not a minority problem. it is not a rich problem. it's not a poor problem. it's an everyday problem. we have to start looking at cures. we have to find ways we have better prescriptions. methodology that we have right now. all of this goes a long way. there are things out there that we have to do more not doing enough of them. >> tommy, my journey of a

lifetime. doug moe and tommy >> hi, everyone. welcome. i am emily clark. associate director of the center for humanities. we are very, very happy to be cosponsoring the visit to the wisconsin book festival to talk about her book white kids growing up with privilege and a racially divided america. maggie received her phd from emory university. she is currently an assistant professor so she actually entered sociology at mississippi state university. the context of the families of local communities. in particular she wanted to find out how young people make sense of racism.

the atlantic, l.a. times. time magazine. our own wisconsin public radio. a book that speaks really directly. also speaking to where we've been. hopefully making us think about how we want our future to be. please join me in welcoming meggie as she talks about the book. [applause] >> hey. i am maggie. for a get started today i just wanted to take a second to think the book festival. especially connor for all his help.

i also really want to thank you, emily, as well as the university of wisconsin center for the humanities. i also want to thank all of you for coming today. especially my friends that are here. thanks for coming. okay. this is the first time i have done a book talk like this. i will try not to be too academic he. we will see. i will start by discussing some of the data. i think it will be accessible. we will back out again and frameless projects a go to a couple of the other scenes without giving too much away. i want you to go read the book. i drive 12-year-old edward home for basketball practice. snowflakes are falling from the sky. i turn on the wood chilled wipers to brush them away. he asked if he gets up at

mcdonald's for a snack. i reluctantly agree. i think about where the nearest mcdonald's is located. edward looks out the window and says this is not where we usually go. we usually go to the one over by the mall. not thinking much about his comment i tell nicely this is the most convenient location and this is where we are going. he does not respond. i glanced in the rearview mirror to check his expression. edward is looking out the window. we go through the drive-through. i place the order in trouble around. edward continues to look out the window. he watches a group of seven children walk across a parking lot in front of us. the kids all look to be the same age as him. wearing close just like he typically wears. what are coats, hats, hats, jeans and gloves. they are black. laughing, joking and caring their school backpacks. one of the girls makes a snowball and throws it at one of the boys. all of the kid laughs. watching the kids goof around, edward states definitively, this

neighborhood really is not all that good, is it #what do you mean i ask. it just seems that there are a lot of poor people around here. we don't usually stop here, my mom mom says it's dangerous. i say why do you think she says it's dangerous? edward says i don't think she would say the less it is true. our turn to go up to the window. his attention shifts. he starts talking about his snowmobile. even as i listen to them chatter on and on, i am reminded of something edward told me. in other day a few weeks prior. we are all the same he said. race does not really matter anymore. we continue on into the snow. that comes from the field no part of this project. i will talk about that in a second. i will share more of the kids voices. it is an interesting part of my research. i wanted to frame this work a little bit. tell you little bit about being

being -- i do think it is important to understand what this book is really about. for your social scientists, studying how it is that parents, particularly black parents communicate with their children about race. largely referred to as racial socialization. we know that lack of brown kids are likely to experience racism encounters in america. whether it's in their neighborhood, school or other kids and so forth tiered preparing children for encounters of racism as well as preparing, as was teaching racial pride and resiliency, these are all parts of racial socialization. the majority of this research has been conducted by african-american scholars and is focused exclusively on the experiences of black families. increasingly, though, research looking at latin families, asian, multiracial families, biracial families.

when i was reading all of this scholarship in graduate school, i became really interested in this topic tiered i started wondering what goes on and why families question how are they communicating with their children about race. how does this work, especially when we know that many white people say they do not notice race. race is no longer a problem in america. what is going on in those families if they believe race is not a thing? one of the things that they are doing and their families to teach your children about race and how children are actually interpreting those messages. how do we learn about race. then, also, what they what they actually think. what are their attitudes on these topics? i spent two years.

i can talk more about the methods later if you're interested in. i moved to this particular community that i studied. there were 30 families that were included. all of the families identified as white. they also were identified as economically privileged as well. both parents had degrees. they were parents that owned, at least one of the parents owned a single-family home. had a significant amount of wealth. occupations that we consider to be prestige. occupations that were very prestigious. affluent people have the ability to make all different kinds of choices. when faced with all the different choices about where to send your kids to school. why do they do that? i think it is also important to note that there have been a lot

of scholarships on marginalized communities. you may be familiar. gangs and economic communities. poverty and homelessness. there is less research on people and their positions of power and privilege. i thought it was really important to figure out what is going on in those communities. that gives you just a sense. their families in their everyday life. some provided childcare. i spent time with their kids as they went about their day. i conducted interviews with parents and their children. i'm happy to talk more about this later, if you'd like. i went back and reinterviewed the children a couple years later when they were in high school. they were between the ages of 10 and 13. go back a few years later talk to them when they are in high school. as they continue in i hope to go back and interview them again. here are my major findings. there are four.

the first 1 i will not really give a lot of data from the book. i want to highlight the children's perspective. that is the richness of the research. i think it's important to talk about the parents. actions speak louder than words. whenever there is a hate crime or something like that, blog posts an op-ed's about how white people need to talk to their kids about race. it is important that white parents talk to their children about race. first of all, it should not happen in the aftermath of a racist event. the parents are doing things in their everyday life every day. they communicate race to their children. only focusing on what parents say mrs. a big part about how children learn about race. what parents say to their kids about race, i think, based on on my research matters less. i talk in the book about how white kids learn by observing

and interpreting the social environment in which they live. and even in this community that i studied, the parents made different choices for their kids some opted to live in a neighborhood that was predominantly white. isolated away from the metropolitan center. private schools versus integrated public schools versus integrated public schools. really high levels of tracking. why classes are in the ap classes and et cetera. what i try to sort of highlight, i try to look for a pattern in these decisions. there are actually three different groups of parents and families that i studied tiered and a lot of times these decisions about neighborhoods are connected to these other choices. you make a decision about what neighborhood to live in, often times tied to what carpool your kid would be in. even things like, you know,

soccer teams. connected to their local neighborhood tiered i talk a lot in the book about how these decisions that parents make shape what their kids think. again, i do not want to spend too much time with that. it's very complicated. i really do try to highlight how choices parents are making are really playing a powerful role in the kids perspective. i think that by talking about the kids voices, you will see what i mean by that. the second major finding here is as a result of growing up in these different racial contacts, i found kids actually have different ideas about racism and equality and privilege. white kids think the same things about these topics. there is a tremendous variability. we will start by reading to you from this book. i will share her comments with

you. i've given her the name natalie. she's grown up in a colorblind context of childhood. her parents opaque racism is a problem. she has basically lived her life and never come in contact with a person of color. she went to school that is 99.9% white. here is what natalie has to say when asked what she things about racism. racism is not a problem anymore. racism was a problem one all those slaves were around. everything was crazy back in the olden days. all those things. now, since martin luther king and eleanor roosevelt and how she went on the bus and she was african-american, but after the 1920s and all that things change. presumably natalie is referring to the jim crow era in the story of rosa parks. her mom who listens to her daughter as natalie makes these comments does not intervene to

correct her or guide her. she nods along as her daughter speaks. after the 1920s and all all that things change. natalie, as well as many other children clearly have not been taught much about the history of race and racism in the united states. either at school or at home. i did not attempt to quiz the kids on history when i interviewed them. through the course of our discussions i think they were underinformed with respect to the history of race. natalie and her sister erica also tend to flat in time. events and those taking place 100 years later later during the civil rights movement appear to be one in the same to these kids only really famous race scholar. socially shared tales. almost all tell me that racism is only a feature of the past. something that happened during the olden days. people used to treat black

people really terribly. not anymore. as a country we have moved on from racism. carly, she lives in the same community, i think we are good. i don't think that there are any issues. why bring it up? the kids don't even think about it. the name of the suburban community, the operational definition of that, they understand the united states to be a system and in which hard work is rewarded. almost all the children tell me racism is something from the olden days of the past and political equilibrium some and opportunity equals out society. nothing these kids how rich people become rich, they mention hard work. poor people are poor because they're lazy or make bad choices while some discuss the bad economy, they also explained that anyone can get a job at

mcdonald's at work their way up. "public school does not even cost that much, does it? i think it might even be free". anyone to go to school and try their best to go to college. even a poor black kid could try their best and move up. black parents must get "a better job". get a better job. they could stop getting things they don't absolutely need. i don't think black people do that job of saving money. why would i do want to talk to their kids. they don't know anything about it. i'm going to switch it i'll be able to talk about another one.

enjoys reading the new york times. conrad talks about a range of topics together. the views about what she is most passionate are the ones he holds on race and politics in the united states. why people don't realize it. he things part of the problem is why people don't pay attention to things happening around them as much as they should. in arizona i know they passed a law where you have to care about your photo id or something. police are always topping latinos because they don't believe they are americans. they believe they are illegal immigrants. really they are just picking on people that are different race. that is wrong and racist. he tells me he read about it in

the newspaper. he's had conversations with his dad. he says he's also discussed it with a friend. a lot of poor people in this area are black and latino. he continues growing more passionate. that is just not right. i think everyone should be able to eat and have a home. he says heavily and sits back in his chair. existing within the laws. he also acknowledges a more structural racism and policies. i thought it was interesting.

i think we have moved beyond racism. i think it is wrong to let illegal immigrants come and without a green card and steal our money. we work hard in america. they can't just come here and be lazy and take it weird as a country, i believe we've moved beyond it. >> growing up with the same type of privilege. they have very different conclusions about immigration and other topics. while the kids and sheridan believe kids like connor and some of the kids other peers, they are much more able to talk about, even though they don't use words like racial wealth gap or intergenerational transfers of wealth, they are talking about those concepts with me. they really feel like the

government needs a way to make up for inequality in the past. just one more quote. if you are black in your ancestors -- you never got a chance to sit upon a large sum of money. 99.9% of the upper class are probably white. you can really see how these kids are talking about race and class. i would be time here. i want to tell you about a story. i wrote string cheese so i know what story does okay. kids use each other to make

sense. testing ideas out and arguing about ideas. for kids that are growing up in a colorblind community where even talking about race is considered to be taboo or it's not okay, there is even a rule at the school that they can't use the word racist because the kids were using this as an insult. they say you are racist. no, we cannot use that term. basically silencing any actual discussion about racism. while eating string cheese one afternoon edward and his friends debated whether black people have an action muscle to make them better in the legs. there is anatomical differences between white and black athletes. elite black basketball players proving the point. he peels the string cheese. dangles it above his mouth. without any direction.

racist biological. of course, race is not biological. he will talk about that later. on another afternoon, carly and her younger sister and a friend discussed rihanna. they disagree about the race of rihanna. one girl thinks rihanna is black or at least a mix of the other girl believes rihanna is white and just wearing a lot of makeup to look can. the girl spent a lot of time debating this. rubbing as much bronze or make up they can on their skin to make sure they can get it as dark as rihanna's. she really wants rihanna to be white with bronzer rather than black. those are moments where i am observing these kids. sort of in their everyday life talking about their plans to experiment with makeup and so forth. there is a lot of that in the book that you can read. not really paying attention to me in my presence. certainly a lot of things happening when i'm driving them

to soccer practice in the backseat having conversations. okay. another topic that i think is of interest that i think plays a role is part of the context having to do with this thing that we refer to as contact theory. this goes back to some of the logic behind desegregating schools. this idea that if kids can come in contact with each other across the color line that will reduce. i can talk more about that later i do think that there are some ways in which it may work. some ways where it doesn't work. i did notice that, really, there there was only one child of the 36 kids in this book that actually had close meaningful friendships with black kids. of all the kids in the sample. tyler.

i won't read this all peak. he met these guys that he became friends with. when they were young. it was because they were at a playground. he says, you know, derek i met him in third grade because i saw matt my elementary school. i thought he is pretty funny. he likes to jump off things. he likes to jump off play structures and lands. i like that. we became friends. that sound like a basic statement, but i think think it's really powerful. the fact that these kids are in the same space when they are doing things like jumping off of lay structures. that is a kind a moment where kids can actually form friendships. fast forward there in school now i asked tyler pianist black friends his black friends ever talk about race. he replies, not that often. tyler tells his mom about how sean got in trouble for having the put on his sweatshirt up at school. it is important to note that

they told me about the no hood rule at school. he was kind of referencing this. one girl told me they only enforce it when the teacher really wants to yell at you. or if the child is black. one girl also tells me i wear my foot up all the time and i never get in trouble. they are noticing how they are treated as well as how their peers are being treated. tyler's mom calmly talk to him about this moment at school. asking tyler if the role is applied to all the kids are just sean? sean was really mad, too. they thought he got into trouble they thought he got in trouble because he was black. clearly frustrated with the teacher. before he can say anything his older sister and her ups and offers her perspective. the conversation shifted to her being the focal point. tyler who quickly grow silent

and tired wanders upstairs to his bedroom by himself. although this interaction is brief, it demonstrates even though he does not talk much about his friends that particularly in these moments, when he and his friend is getting in trouble at school. in a way that he identifies as racist. there is a lot to say about contact theory. just have kids hangout together we won't have racism anymore. that's not what i'm saying. i do think there are some powerful lessons that children can learn. especially equal status situations. not at the same kind of power differential tiered on a playground rather than in a group. all right. so. second scene. all right. that is the 1 i was going to go into. i will be relatively quick. on the third period kids don't share the same ideas as their

parents. this is something i've been really interested in. new research if you'd like. how kids are making sense of current political moment. a lot of assumptions that children just repeat the ideas of their parents. i do think that parents shape their kids and someways, there are some powerful moments in my research in which this was not happening. on saturday morning i sit in a coffee shop with meredith. she also lives in that colorblind context that i mentioned. and her mom. meredith stirs the whip cream on top of her hot chocolate with her pointer finger. licking her finger and sticking it back in the cup. i asked her if she's ever witnessed an active racism firsthand. she said no and i'm taken aback when she says yes. she goes on to tell me a story. i remember one time i was at a

liquor store with my mom about a year ago. there was a bunch of black guys in front of us. only two of them out of the three or four had an idea. they were obviously like 45. the guy would not let him buy the one bottle of liquor. and then my mom and i were there she was getting her bottle of merlot or whatever. the cashier did not even ask her for an idea. i went outside and i heard the black man talking in their car about white trash and sing all the stuff about the cashier. her mom interrupts. she says, but, i think when you buy something at the liquor store all the people in your party need to show their id. meredith interrupts and says those guys were not even standing at the register. i was with you and i'm not 21. her mother rolls her eyes. if you say so. this sets her off emotionally. she grabs her cell phone and stops off to the bathroom. her mother goes on to tell me

this is just one of her most recent teenage antics. god only knows what i have in store for the future. she believed we certainly believed the story and tried to smooth things over. she says of course the cashier was being racist. how ridiculous. later when veronica, the mom, is not around, she insists her version of the story was accurate. something was not right. it was racism. sometimes my mom is racist and pretend she is in. my mom confides -- she confides with me with frustration. it kind of worked the inverse way, too. some children will come home from school and say racist things to their parents and their parents would be horrified and argue about that. there were some disagreements about current events that happen in the community that i don't have time to get into today. certainly i'm a there some disagreements. one more here. i do think this one is powerful.

okay. :: :: :: :: an e-mail sent to me after the george zimmerman verdict and so gail is the mother and use media to con stray to -- after george zimmerman was found not guilty of murdering trayvon martin she e-mail med but here chris' reaction. chris is outraged. tried to explain the disdistinct -- she as lawyer -- reand court sim that design to identify whether a suspect set

of facts meets the element of the crime. the judge justice system its not designedded to fix so-social problems. be angry with us and society, not angry with the jurors, i present out a few good shored editorials for him. i don think he read them. he does nose need my input or perspective because he is adamantly of the opinion that the verdict is acknowledge outrage and travesty of justice. simmer more than means to be put away and the jury failed. that's not a perspective i agree with rue respect. he gets angry when don't agree with behind 100%. despite the representation of an alternative view, chris develops his own ideas. so i think these moments are powerful ask they really demonstrat the agency that young people have especially when he assume that parents are really controlling what their kids

thing, and i always talk to my students can how many times when you're a young person you reject what your parents think but stuff. that's mormon that people think -- more common than people think. the fourth finding -- i won't read from the book -- i rallied one more. i very strange for know read from the book, is the okay? the fourth theme is what i refer these conundrum of privilege. this is at the heart of the book and the argument. this emerged from the research and i wasn't even really expecting this. when i started paying attention to the decisioned parents were making, particularly when i was looking at their decisions versus what they articulated, where their value they didn't line up. so this is where i get to the idea of conundrum of privilege. when white parents draw upon their own race and which is privilege to secure advantages for their children, like demanding that their child have the best math teacher or suing

the school district when they don't like something, or using social and professional networks to get their child a summer internship or moving to a white suburb to escape the black kids, they're participating in the reproduction of inequality. for many of the white affluent parents in this study, regard's of where they lived or their politics, making decision how to raise their children meant navigating tension between their privilege and their values. so saying i really value equal opportunity but mitt kidded need have the good math teacher. the tension between those two things. on the one hand none of these parents in the book told me they wanted to reproduce or reinforce racism. and for some they genuinely seemed to want to raise kids who rejected racism and they identified strongly as being antiracist. connor, that i read -- the kid that was fitting in that example and these parents believed they were committed no challenging

inequality. but these parents admitted feeling conflicted when they used their social status to advocate for kids to have the best math teach are because thaw nye kid's would stuck with the bad math teacher and they were conflicted when the used the social prestige to kid their kids a summer internship and they felt guilty when they removed their children from explicit racist and contentious situations as a way of protecting them. one guy who -- the school situation becomes to racist and has to take his kid out of the public school' put her in private school. a how race and class privilege work together because people of color can't remove themselves from racism. and so that's another example. but despite the sort of feelings of being conflicted, these parents still made these choices to benefit their own child, even

parents that really truly i believe that they are antiracist. so i describe this as a conundrum of privilege and a tension between -- how i argue in the end of the -- -- between being a good parent and being a good citizen and i don't think the two principles should be in tension for many of the parent they'd seem to be in tension and many parents wanted the two things to align but i would hear the phrase, he care bit racial justice but it don't want my kid to by a guinea guinea pig. the actual material advantages, the passing money on to youred, but may research shows the choices have a meaningful consequences for the way privileged white children under race and develop racial views in the united states. so the last thing i want to read is actually from the introduction which is strange to end this with the introduction.

and the point i want to make its why i think this is important. so, i think there are couple reasons why it's important to study this subject. the first of which is that sociologists know very little about how the ideas that support racial inequality get reproduced from one generation to the next. we have have a lot of assumptions but don't know the mechanisms at play and how they work. it's important to understand hour racism -- how is that reproduced or get reworked bet still lead to the same outcome. the second reason is that understanding how the ideas of future powerful people take hold during childhood its important. again there's a lot of research on people who are no not positions of power and that he reach says important but it's

important to understand what is going on with people who experience various forms of privilege and the third and perhaps most pressing reason to has to do with race and class in the united states right now in the present moment and in applied sense. american children have ongoing public debates another race, world that has seen two completed termed of the first black president of the united states. political and racialized arguments about immigration and justice and violence in charlottesville, unprecedented youth access to other people through social media and growing youth activism and protest such as the emergence of "black lives matter" and other groups working for racial groups which are led by young people. and have young participants. these are children growing up in a world that has seen white peers chanting trump and build the wall at basketball games thence predominantly -- children reporting bullying along the lines race and classrooms and

immediate coverage who is subjected to violence and torture at the hands of the police, a heighten it discourse but inequality in the united states. in addition to the current events, a significant in the long history of racism in the united states, social science research to thes that white children receive the wages of whiteness from early ages and into young adult had. wages of whiteness. prince, run over to driving forces behind increased residence shall segregation involves decisions made by pointers where their white kids go to could and research findings white kidds moore he can likely to be considered instant in the juvenile justice context or school discipline. when you i white young adults commit around such as in 2015 when the white man murdered church members or when a 22-year-old man shot a b.b. gun at police officers in new

hampshire, their lives remained intact. young black people are murdered in second by the police when they're suspected of criminal behave such as tamir rice, or 14-year-old cameron tillman who entered an appan donned house with a bb gun. even though white youth are more likely to use illegal drugs arrest rates other do not reflect this reality. teachers perceive white kids to be more smarter and more capable. withdoctors think black children need more pain demonstration the demonstrate the thought that white children need more. these are the privileges of whiteness. i believe it is important to examine empirically how white children not only are going to have power anywhere futures as white adults but also already have power and influence in the present moment as young white people and they're family and communities. pushing back against the notion that children lack agency or free will or power to shape adults, this book explores the power of white kids and their

families, their schools, peer groups, extracurricular spaces and public discourse about who is mint and who is not, who is special and who is not, who i deserving and h is not. wild childhood is a playing where power and privilege take on ideological significance and also material significance for white youth. and the last thing i want to end with is of course the children are not a personal fault for their unearned advantages. their power is tied directly to the social structure of the society in which they live and to which they're born and their with hire are can is they asked for or not control. i'm not interested in demonizing the children and their parents and not individually -- i am interested in confronting honestly what is going on beneath in the century pfaff within aflute white families and communities that perpetuates racism and racial inequality in the united states. that's all.

[applause] >> we have 20 minutes for questions. he askat you ask them from the microphone because you're broadcasting. if you can make your way over we want to hear from you. so thank you. >> i have two quick questions, one is if you saw gender differences, and the other is you talked about a suburban, geographical area. do you think that -- what impact that would be if i wasn't suburban or different geographical area. >> thank you for the questions. they're great. did not interrogate gender closely in this book and very up front about this. it's not about gender. but gender matters in this book and there are a lot of examples

particularly in term odd extracurricular activities kids participate inment one example of water volley which is all girls. it apart of the book and i bring it up when it makes sense. in terms geography, that's the part one that i skipped over. i really go in depth and try to talk but how -- where people live, whether it's sub-under barn or part of the city, maybe the city is i racially diverse but have residential segregation. so most of the kids in the book, all of the kids are growing up in predominantly white communities, neighborhoods. so, yes, i think that geographic region matters and the brooder geography shapes ideas. >> i loved your book and found

it to be sher thought provoking. sparked a lot of conversations with my friends who are fellow parents of young children. i do have a question. there's a partner book where you talk but a school that has a lot of asian american children and white children and felt a bit like you glossed over that counting as diversity and i don't know if you had to field this question before or if you have had to talk about that. felt like if you're not black and brown, you doesn't qualify. >> a good question. i certainly wasn't trying to gloss over the numbers and if it comes across like that, that's not my intention. i was trying to get at is that particular school there's a choice made by the families that live in the community but that school. the community has -- the kid live in a neighborhood and then it's divided in half. some kid going to the school that is preknock anywayly who it and asian american and other kids going to the school that is

predominantly black and the understanding is connected to the racialized so the parents think that, hi kid goes to could with asian american kids and that's better. smalls interesting class differences there, too. and i think -- i have been getting questions about class, doing radio very intos where -- interview where people call up and yell at me. i'm not trying to parse out race and class, and i think that's also part of that, but thank you for the question. >> if you could talk but your decision to use middle schoolers as your age base and if there's research about opening and changing before or beyond that. >> yes. another great question. one thing i try to do is approach i from at interdisciplinary perspective. i draw on child development literature and think what

might -- certainly middle childhood is considered to be a moment in which kids are, a., spending more time outside their family because anywhere middle school and also developmentally thinking more ideal terms or able to think about social inequality. we know that children as young as three can talk but race and notice race or even able to sometimes apply some of the social ideas about race on to these distinctions. certainly kids of all ages are often concerned but fairness. but middle school is when the ideas take hold in a different way according to developmental scholars and i think there's not a lot of research on middle school as in younger kids and high school. there's a great book walled despite the best intentions about schools. actually it's a -- they have that great book about schools and she has another book called rails in the schoolyard so enough about elementary school

kids so a lot of research that looks younger and older kids but less that is doing ethnographic work with middle school kids. >> i'm involved in an organization, families for justice and been trying to encourage white parents especially to talk with their kid about race and racism since the time they're starting to learn how to walk. so two questions related. one is do you have any sense of how parents and parents are influencing each other or adults who are broader influencing how individuals are parenting their kids, and then second, it was lovely to hear about connor and i'm wondering, is cop nor an armchair activist or -- because it's great to hear, like, yeah, there's some kids who seem to be on the right path, but is it a

child who can intellectualize well the issues or a child that is actually able to do something and act on those beliefs. >> thank you for the questions. the first -- maybe i'll start with the second one base it's in my head. variation across the different kids. i didn't read the part where i go back and reinterview them in high school but a that's a remarkable time. and certainly some of the kidded like connor are participating in -- not just participating in activist work but they're being really thoughtful about their position and i'll sit any back and not try to take over this racial justice project. i'll sit back and do what people of color tell me they'd need know time thought at was kind of remarkable given their age. guess not given their age, just in general. lots of times that's what happens with white people. but certainly i think that there's some range. one thing that was interesting

was -- talk but the private school kid but some children going to really -- the private schools and have small classrooms and they're more able -- able to get outside the traditional curriculum and talk more about -- have a richer multi cultural history social studies and those kids are able to do all that intellectualizing and know what is happening but then there's not really putting those words into actions. so, yeah, i want to speak specifically about connor because i have to go back to my data but i think in general there's a range of that. in term of your first question, parents influencing other parents. yes, for sure. one way that parents often make decisions about schools, we know from the researches, is by talking to other parents and go and visiting a school is, like, not happening us a much as you might think when parents are shopping around for elementary schools. a lot of times it's word of mouth. so i think in that respect i

observed all kinds of interesting conversations about they water ballet and conversations happening between parents on the sidelines of sporting events, like the soccer field, the soccer field and then the sideline of the soccer field. so i think that the parents are influencing each other. >> i had a question. so, the conundrum of privilege and so this is something i thing about, and the book made me think about, ways i provide advantages for mr. children i haven't thought how that fits into larger inequality. are there weighed other than, like, not giving your kids a leg up that you feel are useful strategies for increasing equality in schools, let's say, for parents who do other than just folk can you can you go --g

on i won't advocate for the witnesses to get special dream. what can parent does that would benefit the citizen level versus just the parenting level. >> thank you. that's a great question. i have one example actually and it's from a conversation with someone that i had recently where they talked about how their child was having a negative experience at school with the teacher in this particular classroom and this guy that it was talking to, he -- he is a dean, he has lot of influence in his community, everyone knows him and likes him, et cetera. and so he complained a couple of times to the principal, what's going with this classroom and something happened the principal whereas like, hey, just take your kid out of the class and putter in a different class and problem solved. and he was like, he told me he was having a moment, he was saying, so. faced with a choice, carrying

but my own kid and getting him out of this come and all these other kids are left in the classroom with the teachers and all the problems. he talked about hoe he was trying to use his status in the community and in fact that people are thinking he is really great guy but he has a lot of influence to say, no, i'm going to keep my kid in the classroom and we need to figure out strategies to fix this problem because we can't let the problem continue. it thought what at powerful example of someone in a moment trying to figure out how to make a digits that will, yes, help their child and help all the other kids, not in a way that takes away from the efforts of this particular school is prominently black in the deep south but it-it's not to like take over from the black parents who are calling the school complaining to ai'm going to save the day because i'm the white guy but thinking carefully in those moments about ways that

privilege can be leveraged to help more kids than just your open. that's an example. there's and really great research -- a professor at wisconsin here, and she has a great book about how white people try to take over the pta or pto and how, like, they think i'm here to do good work but then they dominate. and so i think those are the dynamics that are at play. very well intentioned people but they're sometimes not -- their actions are not matching their words. >> i'm wondering if any of the families or even the children that you researched had an opportunity to read your book or even some of the research and if you have had feedback or responses. >> thank you for asking that. yes, i have some of the families have read the book, some of the

kids kids who are no longer kids have read the book, and i think that generally the response has been it's an accurate portrayal of what happened and that's the most important thing to me. i want to get it right. and i really try in the book to understand the world from these parent's perspective. i want to understand why it is they're making these decisions and how they're thinking about these things. that is in fact the job of anth nothing -- ethnographer issue have talked to the kid can one in particular who i think there are moments when having a mirror held up to you is unpleasant and i think that's definitely -- she talked to me about that but also kind of interesting because i think that based on our conversation, this book is now shaping even how she is thinking about her own racial socialization in an interesting way. you're in this book, which is

-- i'm shire sure is very strange to be in a book and that's making you think more carefully and critically but yourself and that. so, again, she told me she thought it was accurate. >> hi. so, you talk about i think it was connor meeting the other kid on a playground, an equal playing field. so i know you saw a lot of ignorance or ignoring issues or kind of covering them over, but i wonder if you saw any cases of well-intended racism, sort of like i should -- these people need my help sort of thing. like, they're being treated differently because of their race in a positive way but, like, it's still sort of this racism. i don't know. >> chapter five is what you're looking for. [laughter] >> this chapter is called everybody is white, volunteering

and vacationing. this gets into the white savior complex and looks at volunteering at the local level and then international trips that families take to teach their child but their child's own privilege but how that inned a vert tently is object identifying and exploiting the people they're encountering. gets to into a poverty tourism stuff. i think with what you're getting at. that its the theme of the book. >> any other questions? all right, well, are re done? [applause] >> hello.