. >> thank you everyone today for being here. good afternoon also to the members as well for inviting us to discuss the current crisis in the catholic church. when i last had the opportunity to speak at the city club audience regarding this topic it was march 3rd , 2414 years ago. to quote from my talk at that time, regarding the release of a national review board report, i said as a rational thinking person and a legal professiona professional, i had to recognize the difference between the church and the hierarchy. i don't think we all do while some leaders may have failed us others among them have

tried to set things right i believe they have begun to accomplish this with the unprecedented for which i have been serving it is a deep expression of their willingness to respond to this crisis in the most effective way possible. that was 14 years ago. now i realize i was mistaken in thinking that hierarchy of the catholic church would implement the recommendations from the national review board. it is my pleasure this afternoon to moderate this distinguished panel to discuss the current crisis in the catholic church and the recurrent sexual abuse scandals they have been drawn into sharper and renewed focus

as a result of the lengthy probe into the handling of a multitude of abuse claims brought against the pat pennsylvania catholic diocese and in the years following the 2002 formation of the national review board by the united states congress of catholic bishops as an independent body of laymen and women whose mission and purpose was to advise the conference of sexual abuse against minors in the united states appeared to begin to be doing something. however this new crisis sadly and tragically has emerged and that is why the crisis of leadership we will be discussing two of the problems with the national review board of the united states catholic bishops confronted 16 years

ago the transients of this conference of bishops to take up the national review board in authority to investigate the bishops and the cardinal and also the credible evidence from the local and elaborate cover-up of the sexual crimes committed against under age victims by priest. now it is clear that the code of silence permeated the diocese across the united states. we did recommend the whistleblower policy. obviously it was not adopted by the bishops. present today to discuss these matters is my friend esteemed former fbi executive assistant director, the former special agent in charge and the first

director of the office of child and youth protections of the united states of catholic bishops and also an author. since 2002 traveling the world to establish programs stemming from sexual abuse currently the ceo of management and consulting to provide strategic services to businesses and not-for-profit organizations please join me. [applause] also on the panel today is a good friend and one of our nation's preeminent trial attorneys. cochairing several association national institute programs and represented former

president bill clinton and two former secretaries of the defense clark clifford and caspar weinberger in high profile litigation from the american college of trial lawyers and at various times special counsel to the united states senate and also is an author of his latest book in the rain. also the primary author of the national review boards report of the crisis of the catholic church in the united states february 27, 2004 please join us clap. [applause]

. >> can you hear me? [laughter] bless you so the national review board conducted a thorough investigation into sexual abuse and recorded the number of victims. so why after 14 years are we still learning about grand journeys - - juries across the country of priest abusing minors? . >> it's because the bishops really did not follow all of our recommendations. in fact, we were prohibited from looking into the bishops because our task was simply to look into the priest. we did not have subpoena power.

we didn't have access to the documents. so i will be as candid with you and i think you deserve that. the vatican structure really consists and i can say this is a bunch of old men who don't really want to reform anything and are very satisfied for the most part with what they have and change is an enemy. limited to them and to be directed by women. so it just goes on and on. recently we learned that the cardinal was continuingly elevated into the church even though, even though many of

the folks in the vatican were aware of allegations against him regarding for the most part young seminarians but also minors. i really hate to say that because he was a very close and dear friend of mine. i loved the man. and in my book i say many times when i was very depressed about our work and what we were doing and learning, i would say that here is the bright light the cardinal is a humble man and has not been taken with the perks of office and i could not have been more wrong. so that is a partial answer.

>> have never known you to only give a partial answer. [laughter] that we have lots of questions for you. kathleen, do you have any ideas why we are still talking about this 14 years later? . >> thank you for allowing me to be here this morning i would like to say one thing before i answer the question that there is a possibility that one or more of you in the room have been victims of some type of sexual abuse whether committed by a member of the catholic church or someone you know, or did not know or your family has been a victim. let me first say i'm sorry for what happened one out of four women in this country are victims of sexual abuse or attempted sexual abuse and one out of six men. it is a very important topic. so why are we still talking

about this? because it is still prevalent in society in the catholic church specifically because those who are the offenders are those who representing god to so many people especially to children who don't know the distinction between god and the authority figure representing the church. so the problem continues but i think it is important to know that there has been progress in the catholic church and the sense of diminishing the number of cases that have been occurring over time. during the peak years of the seventies over the decade there were about 271 on average cases per year. during the past 15 years that number has dropped to about 13 cases per year. one case is dreadful and

reprehensible but the numbers have gone down i believe can be attributed to the fact that prevention programs do work and abusive awareness programs do work. >> i have a number of grandchildren who are in catholic school and i felt very safe about that i don't think they are at risk like they used to be. i would like to think that our work has something to do with that. but i have to tell you i think the main reason is that the law enforcement authorities are no longer staying away from the church they are investigating and prosecuting and subpoenaing like you just saw in pennsylvania and now many other state say no longer

forget the separation of churches and that gets their attention. >> i agree with you. sexual abuse is a crime across the country and every state and across the world. the first response should be law enforcement response the second would be the organization and as a result of the national review board so kathleen is in a true every diocese there is sufficient training and background checks to make sure all of those other diocese are convincingly

trusted? . >> when the bishops set up their program in 2021 of the things the national review board did was the implementation of the process that external audit process to make sure each of those diocese around the country was compliant with background checks and abusive awareness training done and the audit on the annual basis but in the years that have passed from the spotlight years to see the issues so what i would say in the past five or ten years people have not paid attention to those numbers but the audits of the diocese to make sure they are compliant with those procedures and there is better screening i'm not

saying it's as good as it should be but for those for seminarians as well. do you have anything to add to that? . >> no. >> some people have said the church leadership is turning a blind eye because of the lack of accountability and last week at georgetown university you were amazed at the number of people and other issues so can you explain? . >> some - - somewhat remarkable there were 5700 people there on this issue and it was amazing. i think what happened that they realized it is they are church. not the church of the vatican

or those in the vatican. it is our church and the vatican come i'm using that term in a general sense is becoming almost irrelevant. it is your relationship with god that matters. what politician asks what the moral position is on an issue? when i was in school they did it all the time now they don't even bother. they said you can even keep your own house in order. catholics are pretty fed up my own daughter is older now. what does the church do for the them? they are a second-class

citizen. so one of the problems when the lady feels that way they have no place to go. maybe they go to the local priest or occasionally the local bishop but it doesn't go anyplace. it's like a glass ceiling. one of the things that has to be done is we should create a national association of concerned catholics and the head of that our representative should have a seat at the table with the vatican. it doesn't have to be a priest but have access because no input is given into the vatican and you and i have talked about this but our

complaints go up there someplace into the cloud wherever that is. [laughter] and nothing is really done about it. . >> you mentioned the vatican we were on the national review board, tell the audience about some of the experience is going to meet with the cardinals. >> it started out on the wrong foot because a good catholic boy i didn't have the phone number. so i played by the rules and of course, they would not return the call. but one of the delegates called me. don't forget it is a creature of the bishop not an

independent organization he just doesn't feel that this subject is within his jurisdiction. so i said the abuse? i'm sorry. so then i did something with permission, because and was running the show, i said one - - send them a bunch of facts and i was admonished by one of the bishops for that and said you don't do that to the vatican. [laughter] i said before you get too upset with me let me tell you i got faxes back one from the cardinal who at the time was the second most powerful person in rome and one year

later and also another very prominent catholic we went over there. it was pretty remarkable. we met with the cardinal for two hours. you can even get to see the guy and if you do it is five minutes and we were there for two hours. and it wasn't us he was hearing things for the first time. we told him about things and he could not believe what he was hearing. so we felt it was a successful meeting so we left with a good italian dinner and a crazy cabdriver and believe it or not the cardinal stepped off the curb and we missed him by

about 6 inches and i could see the headline from the review board. [laughter] wiped out the cardinal. [laughter] . >> kathleen, as a former fbi agent you organize the first audit whereby you hired 55 former fbi agents. were the bishops at all grateful to see you? [laughter] . >> you must remember that the audits themselves were part of the bishops plan going forward which was set for of the charter of protection for children and young people. probably some bishops didn't think the day would ever come they would be audited by lay

professionals outside of the employee of the church so that was shocked on the part of some. but over time because we established a credible process. not investigative but compliance review. but because of that many bishops have come to rely on the expertise from the auditors particularly in the early years using people with law enforcement experience and many had management experience. one of the things for those of you that our familiar with the church and how it does business is the church is a church and the business belongs to the business world. that is one of the things that contributed to the confusion of what the church is about. people don't understand it structure people still think in the united states there

must be a bishop in charge of another bishop. that's not the case. all bishops report to rome the same way and that is how it works in the united states. if there were structural changes then perhaps you could have people closer geographically and culturally to the issues to hold the bishops accountable for actions they have taken or not taken. in a follow-up to that united states conference of catholic bishops president or the cardinal i should say including o'malley and gomez were summoned to rome on september 13, a few weeks ago. since then i don't think we have heard anything from them. or what happened at the meeting.

so with regard to structure, i know that there was a cry for the united states and appears with no words from rome that nothing is going to happen. . >> i don't have any inside information but the bishops conference has asked for the apostolic visitation what that means that they would appoint someone to come to the united states or even someone here, who is cleric, lead to the investigation into the allegations in this case having to do with the cardinal mccarron and why he was able to be promoted within the

church when alleged the different individuals knew he had abused seminarians. so the process is still underway to appoint someone to do this. but but the apostolic visitation why that is authorized, it has to be a partnership to be credible at this point in time and partnership that includes lay professionals with law enforcement experience and investigative experience. others have said the apostolic visitation is not the right thing to do. and without clerics involved. i don't believe that is something that is debated but i don't know yet.

. >> you remember when we interviewed for the job? and you said these bishops and cardinals are a bunch of tough old men. do you think you can handle them? and your response was, she was number three in the bureau and said idea with tough old men all the time and they have fun. [laughter] [applause] . >> there is another story but we would go around the country and try to have our meetings as a board in each of the board members, and we were ready to go to the - - to new york. and we got word cardinal egan

said i don't want that fbi agent and that skirt coming to new york. that is the kind of pushback that we got. . . . . of lincoln, nebraska. he's been replaced and they are participating in the audit. the interesting point is all his

brothers were participating and the fact that he declined, there was no consequence whatsoever. i was wondering where the people were in his diocese that were insisting that they had external audits and if there was a point we all wanted to make being here today it is first of all to thank all of you for being interested and hopefully activists on these issues and making certain that your respective bishops or archbishops or cardinals, whatever they might want to be as well as the provincials of the religious communities because a third of the priests in the country are members of religious communities and not necessarily associated with the diocese. we would hope you would continue to make your voices heard about things going on that either you

don't understand or that you think need to be corrected within the church. whatever the issue may be. this is broader of quirks that it's the most important thing right now. >> we've been talking about some of the things that possibly need to be changed in the church. even though the bishops and cardinals pathecardinals pay ate recommendations on accountability, what do you think needs to be changed in the hierarchy? >> this is where i get close to being excommunicated. our investigation was very serious, and at the time i was at a law firm and i got the

permission of wayne and others to do it right. at the end of the day, we wrote off $2 million because of the use of the young lawyers and not so young lawyers and i'm in there because it shows they were protestant but this was a serious investigation especially the last 20 years, here's what i think. they are very practical and believe me, i am not naïve.

in my lifetime or lifetimes after this will be done but if you want to make this a healthy church to solve many of the problems, here's what i would recommend. first, i'm absolutely convinced celibacy should be voluntary. to su some it is a great gift. to others it's an albatross which means heavy drinking and womanizing. we don't even talk about that anymore but it's about power and there are many that we came across in the last 20 years who will counsel women who are having trouble in their marriage and wind up trying to defend themselves. i thin think celibacy has got te voluntary. we should have married priests

if they want. we have episcopalian who become catholic and i'm sure there are others yet i know there will be other things but those are nothing compared to what we have. third, i think we should have women priests. there is no good reason not to have women priests. [applause] i've discovered in our investigation and elsewhere some of the nuns are the best people we have in our church. [applause] can you imagine a woman sitting in breakfast with a bishop and he says i'm going to send joan to idaho?

it wouldn't happen. and as i said earlier, we need to have a position in the vatican with some kind of authority so they have access. think about it. in this day in a niche to say women can't be priests. those are my views, very practical solutions, but the chance of this happening is negligible because if you have a priests that is at all minded

that they will never get up to the power base because the people that get up there are the identical people who are there already and they don't want young bishops or priests to rock the boat and that is a fact of the matter. that is the way it is and based on my views of over 20 years. do you believe this movement in the church, those who are against pope francis and are more conservative or trying to put blame? the report shows otherwise. is that not true? >> there are a couple of

questions. one has to do with people that have certain agendas either pro- or anti-gay and are they fighting each other over abuse and i think that yes they are. it's a sad thing that you have or the appearance on both sides people fighting each other about the most important thing which is protecting children. that gets lost by the wayside in. that is the elephant in the room

nobody knows precisely but i've heard of statistics that's that probably 30 to 50% or more have homosexual tendencies. they didn't get any training or how to cope with it in their career, they were told wha whatm told in high school they have a cold shower come and you can't do that.

do you believe the pope needs to take a more active leadership role in the united states it seems like there's some sort of a disconnect between what the people have been talking about and what the hierarchy has been talking about and be an active nest to some degree about

listening to the people. one of the problems of being thg the largest christian organization in the world is that you only have so many moments in a day. it isn't the person that's going to get a lot of things done. you have the kind of leadership that can actually get done and hold people accountable within the church and within the united

states. a number of these people were proposed for the organization. that shouldn't be. of those cases should be completed very quickly because there is evidence that so many have gone to jail so if you have a system you could add to dictate here in the united states more quickly and then save the work of the folks in various industries for the appeal, you could get the process done and get better accountability and you wouldn't have these people who are still lingering in the priesthood.

>> i agree with that. i can't believe there's only one question. [applause] do you want to stand and ask a question lacks kimiko i didn't want to say that i thought it might be a prescription for me.

[laughter] i've got a couple of questions on a study that should be periodically done but the second question in the opening comments i wonder if you can contrast that. should the report issued by the national review board be reviewed and continually updated and the other what was the issue with the grand jury in

pennsylvania and their subpoena power because kathleen, you could probably answer that better. >> i think i understood the question differently. you asked about the study in 2002 commissioned. is that what you are referring to and is separate from the national review report? in the study in the college of justice, a very reputable institution, surveyed all the dioceses in the country to find out the nature and scope of the problem and your question is should there be a new study in that regard? there is a process in place by

which the research group from georgetown university collects the data every year and puts it in an annual report. what's important to note is a lot of people don't know about and often there's press releases and so forth and numbers have been added every year since 2004 when the report came out. that's a different issue than being transparent and disclosing the names and that is something that this board and my office recommended in 2002 if you are going to be transparent, you need to know who those offenders are. here in the archdiocese in chicago, they were related but it's not universal. it's something that needs to be done.

there are a number of questions and one of them is why the archdiocese of chicago was not on the panel. there was no one other than myself and two other members at the national review board, said this was about the national review board and not about any other in the country. >> [inaudible] was your question answered? short of a schism, how can lady

take over and force a recount structuring of the church? is the restructuring possible, power of the purse all questio questions. i don't think it's possible but if we were able to have a seat at the table we might be able to influence some of the positions and also if they realize their church perhaps those in the vatican would realize that they don't get on with the program they are going to become more and more irrelevant and remote.

>> it seems as if the choice is to stay and fight for the church or find another christian church if we say what realistically can we do to reform the church so we see that the issue is addressed in our lifetime. >> that is very similar to the last question. like i said before, using your voice and letting the bishops and cardinals and superiors know how you feel and come forward with concrete suggestions like bob has on insisting on a seat at the table with congregations like congregations for clergy or bishops if they had counsel who could listen to their issues and

provide a perspective, that would be at least a small step towards making fundamental structural changes. >> didn't you tell me if i remember correctly that some of the wealthiest contributors to the church are withholding? >> some have been written with nothing in it. attending the forums where the discussion can be talked about, we talked about when he was at georgetown where there were over 600 people talking about the issue and what they should do. i was there last monday night

with four people talking about this issue and that is exactly what we should be doing is having a conversation about the issue and be engaged in the church and insisting that the parishes and dioceses around the country have these conversations and include the bishop and the cardinal. if you're not talking about it with them then you can't possibly know what's going on. i would also like to talk about the one thing i do want to point out to you is everybody is angry and i think you said the same thing they had been discussing this the last 15 years in countries all over the world

they want to be catholic, they want to be part of the church. i can probably quote but i will let you do it. >> for those of you that have seen the movie, that is when the catholic church feast of this crisis to begin with. i said to you use your voice but there's another part and i want to ge give a shout out to the media, to the "boston globe" for doing their report into the secular media and catholic media many of you may not read much in the catholic literature there's a lot of information and bishops do read that and listen. i'm not going to say 100% because i wouldn't say that, but many of them pay attention to

the ideas brought forth from the professionals. one thing i've seen is the fact that many of the bishops i worked with at least ten have come to the high expertise people bring forth, whether they are attorneys but more importantly in the social science areas. they listen to what people are thinking and saying that there have to be more voices and they have to be louder. we have to make certain that the media doesn't let the issue go as it did after 2004 and 2005. many people that solve the spotlights were not familiar with what happened in 2002. every day a child is not risk

for being abused by someone who is a predator whether it is at school or in an organization or their own family. so, as abdel we have to be vigilant about this. we are responsible for protecting young people, they are not protecting themselves. >> one of the things we learned a few random or -- if you remember they were working for insurance companies and they were risk managers. i remember one case we came across this is a six year old little girl and the lawyer submitted a pleading saying that

she was negligent. how crazy was that and if your focus is avoiding scandal and not the well-being of children, you are never going to solve these rounds. >> that's what everybody is saying and the questions are saying what do you do if you believe that you are a bishop as or the cardinal wasn't addressing it with ken egon. do you think he was holding money on contributions that would have ended packed? >> we are being pretty tough on the church.

we do a lot of wonderful things like catholic charities at the expense of things like catholic charities and things like that. i'm troubled about this idea of withholding money. i would withhold in a minute to contribute to the portrait of a cardinal. let him pay for his own portrait. but good work. >> i agree you may be withholding salary as educators owere people doing important ministries. i don't think that is necessarily the answer. but where you can be in a digest

is making sure that they are open and transparent about how they spend money. in a lot of parishes this may be insert before 20 years do through money or do you take time to look at it, are you part of the finance council if your parish doesn't have a finance council if the diocese doesn't share information about their finances, do you ever ask why. final remarks. >> one more question.

[inaudible] there's a lot of catholic power in this room and we've got to convince somehow. we have to organize in the sam e of a national organization to do everything within their power to influence them disabled let's get into position not to talk about the church doctrine but so they can be heard and have access to those with the power. >> you can have your closing

statement. >> thank you for the opportunity to talk about this important topic once again. please don't let it go by the wayside. we critique difficult issues i totally understand that but it's too important. look to all the organizations. you are leaders in the community. and i know what's been going on here in chicago, but across the land in organizations make certain good procedures are in place and make sure if you see something particularly a cleric violating a boundary with a young person or learnable adult

that you come forward. don't just say that another rumor bothering me. >> this has been a very depressing lunch. [laughter] i want to try to cheer you up a little bit and those that haven't heard the story, i apologize. therthere's a brilliant young lr named joe collins. he dies at a very young age of 40. he's a little upset and peter said god just wants you up here. you've been so brilliant and good and you go to mass every day and contribute.

god wants you within and in fact, i am under instruction to ask you is there anything at all that we can do for you? he said to tell you the truth, i would love to meet the blessed mother. she's the center of my life. that's a tall order and he gives back and says i can do it. i've gotten the okay so he goes over to see her and it is incredible she knows all about him and after about a half an

hour i don't want to be presumptuous, but you don't look very happy. she said i understand why you are such a good lawyer. i am a little sad. he said why? millions and millions of people pray to you every day. you are the mother of jesus christ. what is there to be unhappy about. he said to tell you the truth, i wanted a girl. [applause]

california governor brown and former new york city mayor michael bloomberg plan date conference after the trump administration announced its intention to withdraw from the paris climate agreement. leaders around the world gathered in san francisco in september to showcase their action and efforts to reduce global emissions. speakers include actor harrison ford, housed in a critically for nancy pelosi and the mayors of paris, warsaw, houston and san francisco. this is three hours and 20 minutes. please welcome the master of ceremonies the head of communications for bloomberg, linda douglass. ♪