. >> with marbury versus madison.

. >> thank y . >> thank you jay for being here. good afternoon thank you for inviting us to discuss the current crisis in the catholic church. when i last had the opportunity to speak to the city club audience regarding this happening, it was march 3 march 3rd, 2414 years ago. at that time talking about the release of the national review board report and then the legal profession and to look in eyes the difference between the church in a hierarchy. while they have failed us they thought to set things right

and have begun to accomplish the unprecedented from a china has been serving it is a deep expressionon of that willingness to respond to the crisis in the most systemic way possible. that was 14 years ago. now i realize that i was mistaken at the hierarchy of the catholic church with the recommendations with the review board. it is my pleasure this afternoon and with the current crisis of the catholic church with the sexual abuse scandal and those scandals have been drawn into sharper renewed focus in with that link the probe into the handling of a multitude of abuse claims brought against r the catholic

diocese. with the 2002 review board with that conference of catholic bishops with an independent lay men and women and with that sexual abuse against minors in the united states and appeared to begin doing something and however this new crisis sadly and tragically has emerged and by the present time of crisis a crisis of leadership we will best be discussing two of those problems of the national review board from catholic bishops confronting 16 years ago the transient and unwillingness of the conference of bishops to grant

us the national review board the authority to investigate the bishops and the cardinal and number two the credible evidence with the elaborate cover-up of sexual crimes committed against under age victims like priest and now it is clear the code of silence permeated the diocese across united states we did recommend the adoption of the whistleblower policy obviously it wasn't adopted by the bishops present day to discuss these matters is my friend esteemed former fbi executive assistantnt director and the former special agent in charge of the chicago division in the first executive director of child and youth protection of the united states catholic

bishops and since 2002 traveling the world to establishst those prevention programs aimed at sexual abuse and currently the ceo of management and consulting giving strategic services for not-for-profit organizations please join me to welcome her. [applause] . >> also on the panel today one of the preeminent trial attorneys to cochair the national institutes and represented former president bill clinton in new former secretaries and caspar weinberger with high profile

litigation with the american college of trial lawyers and at various times and also in the ring the trials of washington lawyer. and with the crisis of the catholic church in the united states february 27th 2004 please join us. >> can you all hear me? [laughter]

bless you. the national review board conducted a thorough investigation into sexual abuse and reported victim so why after 14 years are we still learning about grand juries to investigate those who abuse minors quick. >> because the bishops really. they follow all of the recommendations. in fact, we were prohibited but our task was simply to look into the priest we didn't have access to the documents

so i will be as candid with you and i think you deserve that. the vatican really can say this and i is a bunch of old men who don't really want to reform anything they are very satisfied and changes in enemy. anded so it goes on and on and recently we learned that the cardinal is continually inundated into the church even though the folks in the

tvatican were aware of the allegations regarding for the most part young seminarians. and i hate to say that but he was a close dear friend of mine. and i love the man that many times with what we were doing and i said here's that was not taken with the perks ofe office so that's a partial answer. >> i've never known you to only give a partial answer.

>> anyway we still have lots of questions. what are we talking about all these years later still quick. >> let me say one thing before i get to your question and that there is a possibility that one or more of you in the roomr have been victims of assault whether the roman catholic church and that has been a victim so i'm sorry for what has happened in this country with victims of sexual abuse or attempts at sexual abuse and one out of six men so it is a very important topic if you ask me why are we still talking about this

because people who arere offenders representing god especially those who don't know that distinction and the authority figure representing the church so the problem continues it is important to know in the catholic church in the sense of those cases that are occurring over time. during those peak years in the seventies there were 271 average cases per year. during the past 15 years that number has dropped at 13 cases3 per year. and now that that number has gone down that the prevention

program. >> i have grandchildren who are in catholic schools and i do feel very safe about that and thenli to have something to doo and that is no longer staying away from the church and investigating and now they stay it's no longer hands-off forget separation of church

and state we are coming after you. and that gets their attention. sexual abuse is a crime across this country and countries across the world and that second response would come from the organization isn't it true every diocese here in chicago with background checks to make sure all the other dioceses around the country are as convincingly trusted? . >> so with those programs in

2021 of the things the national review board did was the implementation of the external audit process to be certain that each of the dioceses around the country was compliant with having background checks done with awareness training and the audit on an annual basis there is an annual report about this. in the years that have passed since 2002 you have seeing fatigue of an issue so over the past five or ten years people have not paid attention to the fact there have been audits to make sure they are compliant maybe not as good as it should be better for seminarians as well.

do you have anything to add to that quick. >>. >> some say that church leadership is turning a blind eye to an epidemic because of their lack of accountability of the church and that's why last week at georgetown university so can you explain what happened last week? . >> with 650 or 700 people were there onle this issue and it was amazing to me to realize that it's not the church of the

vatican but it is our church and the relationship with god what politician asks the church anymore their moral position anymore on an issue? because now they don't even ask because you'd can at one - - can even keep your own house in order. and my own daughters they are older now. what does the church do for them and those second-class citizens so what are the problems?

may be going to the local priest or occasionally the local bishop but it's a glass ceiling. and then to say we should create that national association and that representative of that ad a seat at the table and the vatican. and then to have access because no input is given and you and i talked about this and then we go up there some place up to the vatican in the cloud. [laughter] nothing is really done about

it. and on the national review boar board. >> but it started off on the because so i played by the rules and of course, he would not return the call but they called and said i'm sorry mister bennett. this isn't a plaintiffs organization it is a creature of the bishop he signed where

the subject is within his jurisdiction and we said child abuse and they said no. where sorry so than i did something with anne's permission and i sent a bunch of faxes. and i was admonished by one of the bishops and said you don't send faxes to the vatican. [laughter] and i said before you get too upset with me and let me tell you i got faxes back one from the cardinal at the time was the second most powerful person then another very

ryprominent catholic and it was pretty remarkable. but you can even get to see the guy and it's only five minutes but we were there for twooo hours. he was hearing things for the first time. we told him about things and he could not believe what he was hearing so we felt that it was a successful meeting and said let's go have a great italian dinner we had a great elcabdriver he drove crazy but the cardinals stepped off the curb and we missed him about 6 inches. [laughter] i could just see the headlines from the review board. [laughter] wipes out the cardinal.

[laughter] . >> as a former fbi agent child and youth protection you organize the first audit to higher personally former fbi agents to go into the dioceses across the united states were the bishops all that grateful to see you? [laughter] . >> you must remember that the idea of the audit themselves with the bishops plan going forward set forth in their charter for the protection of young people and children i think probably some bishops did not think they would be audited by lay professionals outside of the employee of the church so i do think there was shock on the part of some but

over tim time, because i think we established a ccredible process not investigative but compliance review, but because of that i think many bishops have come to rely on the expertise of the auditors particularly in the early years when using people with law enforcement experience and many of whom have management experience. and for those of you who work and are familiar with the church and how it does business that it doesn't do business. the church is a church in the business belongs to the business world and that's one of the things that is the confusion what the church is about people don't understand its structure and people think in the united states there must be a bishop inte charge of all of the bishops but that's not the case all bishops report to rome in the same way

that all roads lead to rome and that's how it works in the united states. if there were structural change changes, then perhaps you could have people who were close to her geographically and culturally to the issues to hold bishops accountable for actions they have taken or not taken. and as a follow-up to that united states catholic bishops and i should say that cardinal o'malley and gomez were summoned to rome just septemberh 2 weeks ago and since then i don't think we have heard anything from them. or as what happened at the meeting. [laughter]t so with regard to structure, i

do know to have the apostolic visit to the united states and it appears with no word from rome that nothing is going to happen to believe that about the structure of the church? . >> i don't have any inside information about that but i do know the bishops conference that the cardinal has asked for the apostolic visitation and what that means if you don't understand that they would appoint someone to come to the united states or maybe someone here who is a cleric, lead an investigation into the allegations in this case having to do with cardinal mccarronin and why he was able to be promoted within the church when allegedly different individuals knew

that he had abused seminarians. i think the process is still underway appointing someone to do this. but the point i could make about the apostolic visitation to be authorized it has to be a partnership incredible at this point in time and a partnership that includes law enforcement experience inn investigative experience with some knowledge of the church. and others have said the apostolic visitation is not the right thing to do and it should be justin a total external investigation without clerics involved and i don't believe something that is being debated but i don't know yet.

>> and then when you came in and you said these bishops and cardinals they are a bunch of tough old men and you think you can handle them? and her response was as number three in the bureau she said i deal with tefl men all the time and they have fun. [laughter] [applause] . >> there is one store i hope you don't get mad but we would go around the country to have our meetings as a board at the board members dioceses and we were ready to go to new york and a member of the board was the lawyer for new york and we got - word that cardinal egan he

was from chicago but he's really from oak park said i don't want that fbi agent with the skirt coming into new york. that's the kind of pushback that we got. i know kathleen went around to investigate and not everybody cooperated. >> correct. first let me finish on what you said but i did go to new york and i probably wore a skirt. [laughter] that there was a bishop who declined to take part over several years that was the bishop of nebraska he has since been replaced and they are participating in the audit but an interesting point is that all his brother bishops were participating in the fact that he declined there was no

neconsequence whatsoever. so i was wondering where the laypeople that were not insisting that they have an external audit and if there is a point that we wanted to make by us being here today is first of all, to think all of you as laypersons to be interested and hopefully activist on these issues and to make certain your respective bishops or archbishops or cardinals show the provincials of the religious community because they are members not necessarily a associated with the diocese. so what we would hope is that we continue to make your voices heard about things that are going on either you don't understand or what need to be corrected within the church

whatever the issue may be and this is more broader but abuse is the most important thing right now. >> we were talking earlier about some of the things that possibly need to be changed in the church even though the bishops didn't necessarily pay ectention to our recommendations about accountability on their behalf but more broadly what needs to be changed with a hierarchy? . >> this is where i get close to being excommunicated actually. [laughter] let me make one point. our investigation at the time i got the permission to do it

right. and at the end of the day we rode off $2 million in fines because of the use of lawyers i only mention that number because of the partners commitment even though many were jewish but this was a serious investigation. now i'm just thinking about these issues for a long time and especially the last 20 years. so here's what i think. it gets very practical and believe me i am not naïve. i have no belief in my lifetime or after this will will be done but if you want toto make this a healthy church

of the problems this is what i would recommend. first i am absolutely convinced that celibacy should be voluntary. to some, celibacy is a great gift. but to others which leads to heavy drinking and womanizing et cetera we don't even talk about womanizing in them anymore but it is about power and many priest that i came across the last 20 years would counsel women having trouble in their marriage and he would at wind up trying to bed them so i think celibacy has to be voluntary i think we should have married priest. we have priest in the church that are married episcopalians

and i'm sure there are others and i know there will be other problems like divorce but those i think are nothing compared to what we have. third i think we should have women priest. there is no good reason not to have women priests. this isn't a matter. [applause] w i have discovered with our investigation the nuns are some of the best people we have in our church. [applause] can you imagine a woman priest sitting with the bishop and he says i think i will send him to idaho maybe he will stop this? it wouldn't happen. it wouldn't happen.

and as i said earlier, i think you need to have a lay position in the vatican with some kind of authority so they have access. in this day and age to say women can be priest? my wife is the president to support our aging religion so that's garbage. those are my views. very practical solutions. but the chance of this happening because if you have as priest they will never go after the real power based on the people who get up there are the identical people who

were there already and they don't want those current bishops are young priest to rock the boat. that is the fact of the matter you can talk around it but that's the way it is and that's based on my views over years. >> kathleen, do you believe those that are against pope francis and those who are more conservative shall we say try to persuade the homosexual priest? . >> our reports show otherwise there are a couple of questions there and one was people putting certain agendas

gay or anti- gay are they fighting each other over the issue of sex abuse? and i think yes they are it is very sad that people on both sides are fighting each other about the most important thing which is protecting children and that just goes by the wayside when they talk about ideology who is the most important if they like probe francis or they don't or they like his appointments are they don't. none of that matters if you are not focused on the child. >> that is the elephant in the room. we were commended for further study on this subject of homosexuality that nobody knows precisely but i have heard a statistic between 30

or 50 or more of the priest have homosexual tendencies. most cases involve homosexual conduct but you cannot just wish it away but there is a big difference between a man who has a tendency and one who acts on it. and i think it would be terrible for the church for those who have homosexual tendency. and then to take a cold shower but then you can do that. and that requires a lot of

attention. that those who go in and then to be sure what their tendencies are and acting out with women so you have to be very careful and one of the things like that may be an effort to rid the church of homosexual oriented men that would not be good for the churc church. >> do you believe the pope needs to take a more active leadership rolee here in the united states? there is a disconnect what the laypeople have been talking about in the hierarchy and that in active newness of some degre degree? .

>> one of the problems with being the leader of the largest christian organization is that you only have so many moments in the day from those of us that understand organizations and structures but that charge isn't the person but here in the united states if you have decentralization of power in the church you can handle the church so in all of those issues but something here in the united states to have that leadership that can get things done and hold people accountable within the united states and just to give you an example members that have been

identified or clergy who have victimized vulnerable adults or children. there are hundreds of cases awaiting the judicial decision at the holy city what to do about these men. those cases should be completed very quickly because there is evidence, some have gone to jai jail. if you have a system to adjudicate here in the united states more quickly and then for the appeals you could get this process done with better accountability and you wouldn't have these people that are still lingering in the priesthood. >> i agree with that.

>> we are pretty much said what we were planning on saying unless there's a final comment before questions? there's only one question? . >> [applause] . >> do you want to stand and ask your question? . >>. >> my question relates about

the bishop what does the panel think should be done within the second question is with my recollection from the diocese can you contract that from pennsylvania? . >> that was a two-part question. should the report issued by the national review board we reviewed and continually updated? and u another was what was the issue with the grand jury in pennsylvania and the subpoena power? what was the difference

because you probably answer that a little better kathleen but you can start. >> i think i understood the question a little bit differently you asked about the study of 2002 that was commissioned by the bishop is that what you are referring to? that was separate from the national review board report that in the john jay study of criminal justice not a catholic institution but a reputable research institution surveyed all the diocese in the country to find the nature and the scope of the problem and should there be a new study in that regard? i don't think there needs to be a new study but there is a process in place that the hresearch group from georgetown collects that data every year to put it in an annual report

but a lot of people don't know that and there is press releases and the numbers have been added every year since 2004 since the report came out that is a different issue than being transparent and disclosing the name of offenders and that is something that this board in my office would recommend back in 2002 that if you are going to be transparent you need to let peoplepa know who those offenders are so names were released in other places but it's not universal it is something that needs to be done so other people who have not reported can know that they are not alone if they come forward or not knowing you are not alone goes so far

helping that person who has been victimized to heal. >> why did the archdiocese of chicago with no when other than myself and not about what any archdiocese has done or not don done. >> was your question answered? so how do they have a restructuring of the church is

a restructuring of hierarchy possible?ur . >> i don't think it's possible but i d think to have a seat at the table and to implement some of those decisions but they realize that it is their church perhaps those in the vatican will realize that if they don't get on with the program it will become more and more irrelevant. >> to say to stay and fight

church where fight for another christian church if we say what realistically can we do to reform the catholic church to see the issue is addressed in our lifetime? . >> that's very similar moving forward using using your bishops and cardinals to know how you feel with concrete suggestions to have a seat at the table and to be in the holy state and with the board and the council to listen to their issues and provide a perspective to make those

fundamental structural changes. >> can you tell me the wealthiest contributors to the church are withholding? . >> i have seen some checks that have been written. >> also with regard to what laypeople can do that is attending forums where this discussion can be talked about. talking about the other evening at georgetown over 600 people talking about the issue as laypeople. and 400 people talking about this issue but this is exactly

what we should be doing to have a conversation about this issue to be engaged and insisting the parish and the diocese have conversations so they know what they are thinking to know what is going on and then to point out to you that everybody is angry and then to talk to people and discussing this for the last 15 years all over the world and people want to be catholic and they want to be part of

the church and then i can probably quote but i will let you do it. >> back in 2002 the spotlight years and when the church face the crisis to begin with and i said to you, use your voice but there is another part of that as a shout out to the media to "the boston globe" to do that investigative report and you may not have much in the catheter at one - - catholic literature but but they do listen. i will not say 100 percent because i do not say that but they pay attention to the forththat are brought

so one thing i have seen over the last 15 years is the fact that many of the bishops that i work with at least have really come to have a high regard for the expertise that people bring forth in the social science areas and listen to what people are thinking and saying but again there has to be more voices they have to be louder to make certain that the media does not let these issues go after 2004 like it did. many of those that spot on - - saw the spotlight report were not familiar with what had happened in 2002. every day a child is at risk for being abused from someone who was a predator weather at a school or an organization or

in their own family. as adults we have to be vigilant we are responsible for protecting young people they are not responsible for protecting themselves. >> so the lawyers for the diocese and working for insurance companies and risk managers. i remember one case we came across was a six-year-old little girl who was molested and the lawyer for the diocese submitted a pleading saying she was negligent.

how crazy is that? if you can avoid scandal then you will never solve the problem. >> what do you believe if your bishop or cardinal? what can be done? we have to have the press help us and another question is what about contributions to have a real impact? . >> we are being pretty tough on the organized church but doing things like catholic charities you don't want to

withhold funds at the expense of things like catholic charities so i am troubled about this idea of withholding money. i would withhold money in a minute if you point me to a portrait of a cardinal. [laughter] let him pay for his own portrait. but good works and charitable works. >> i totally agree on the fact if you withhold money maybe you are withholding salaries of educators or doing important ministry but that isn't necessarily the answer. but when you can be an activist in your parish and diocese are open and transparent howra they spend

money a lot of parishes once a year there is bulletin this is how we discuss money this year does that go into the trash or do you take time to look atou that? if you don't have a finance council are you asking why? if it doesn't show information do you ever ask why? if not you should. . >> last call or one more question? . >> i have a joke i want to tell. [laughter] . >> we have one more question first.

. >> there is a lot of catholic power in this room we have to convince the vatican to organize that organization of catholics who have concerns and to do everything within our power to say look. let's get the layman in the position not just to talk about the church doctrine but so they can be heard to have access. >> now you can have your closing statements.

>> kathleen? [laughter] . >> first of all, thank you for the opportunity to talk about tuthis important topic. please don't let it go by the wayside as it has in years past with the fatigue of difficult issues and i totally understand that but it is too important and you look to all the organizations as leaders in the community and i know what is going on here in chicago but across the land to make certain good procedures are in place to protect children if you do something it is untoward if you see a cleric was possibly violating a young person or vulnerable adult then you come forward. don't just say that's another

groomer but come forward and let the righthe people investigate. . >> okay. this is a very depressing lunch. [laughter] so i want to try to cheer you up a little bit so there is a brilliant young lawyer named joe collins and he dies at a very early age of 40 and he goes up to heaven and there is st. peter at the gates he's a little sad why? because i'm so young. st. peter said god just wants you up here with him you have been so brilliant and good and go to mass every day god wants you with him and in fact, i am

under instructions to ask you is there anything at all we can do for you while you are here? and collins says to tell you the truth, i would love blessed mother she is the center of my life. i pray to her every weekend peter says that's a tall order but i will do what i can and he gets back to collins and says i can do it. i have gotten the okay and she is okay on - - over there with the clouds and the angel so he goes over there. and it is an incredible meeting. they talk she knows all aboutute him and after half an hour he said blessed mother i don't want to be presumptuous, but

you don't look very happy. and she said collins i understand why you're such a good lawyer. i am a little sad. and he said why? millions of people pray to you every day you are the mother of jesus christ. what is there to be unhappy about? she says to tell you the truth, i wanted a girl. [laughter] [applause] . . . .

this is three hours and 20 minutes. please welcome the master of ceremonies the head of communications for bloomberg, linda douglass. ♪ hello and welcome to the summit. i am honored and hung to be here in san francisco with such extraordinary leaders around the world. these are leaders from every sector from every industry, business, government, technology, philanthropy, entrepreneurs and artists, investors, scientists