and thanks for joining us tonight on behalf of the bookstore i'm very pleased to welcome you to this evenings event with professor carter presented his new book invisible. our cosponsor for the evening is an organization that supports programs for history, literature, philosophy and other disciplines to enhance and improve civic life for the people of massachusetts. you can learn more at humanities.org. we are pleased to have c-span book tv taping tonight's event and when asking questions please know that you will be recorded and wait a moment to the microphone overhead to come to you. you. tonight's talk will conclude with time for your questions after which there will be a book signing at the table.

the line will form to my left hand we havand we have copies oe for sale in the next room. tonight's title is 20% off this evening and this book discount is how we say thanks for buying books at harvard book store. finally a quick reminder to silence your cell phones for the talk stephen carter professor of law at yale university where he is taught and served as a law clerk for justice thurgood marshall for the eight honorary degrees and delivered the w. e. b. du boise lectures at harvard. he's the author of 15 books.

a novel that spent 11 weeks in n "the new york times" bestseller list. tonight he's here to present his new book invisible the forgotten story of the black woman lawyer who downed america's most powerful mobster. remarking that it running with intellect and green and the best-selling author walter isaacson praises it as a moving story, one with enormous resonance for our own time. we are so pleased to have this offered with us tonight. please join me in welcoming stephen carter. [applause] >> thank you for coming and i want to thank the bookstore for inviting me back. the last time it was supposed to be here i canceled at the last minute into the bookstore so don't worry we will reschedule.

it's a pleasure to be here this was a book that had been inside my head for a long time. i want to get into the book in a sense talking backwards. before i write the book i want to talk about a historical moment gave rise to it. going back to the 1930s there have just been a big war in which they have been wiped out or subjugated to a coalition of ethnic gangs. it was the most lucrative territory in the country and because of the numbers game

"-end-quotes played by more people between ten and 20 actual job number was a big deal. there had been a war for them and it was dominant in new york and there is a cry from civic reformers and newspapers that it was time to get serious and to try to investigate. the problem was a man named dodge was in the pocket and it was the runway grand jury and dodge eventually gave in and of the special prosecutotothe specd was thomas dewey and that is how he eventually came to public and when they took over there were some conditions like the staff

offices. no one with connection to the government in new york would work for him. he hired 20 young lawyers and they immediately were labeled against the underworld and they were 19 white males and one black woman into the black one is the subject of the book. the name was eunice carter. you have to remember being a lawyer in the 1930s in new york this is at a time when the bar was segregated and they should have a rule against the members for example at the time. there were very few in the country but certainly very few

black players in the country. it was a big deal and it was news from coast to coast. you would see this in a newspapers and there were a lot of them hers was the only photograph so what was this woman doing. so, the job was to investigate and break up organized crime. it was like loanshark or

drugrunning. he had a big office. this one was working on corruption in the unions and drug smuggling and there was the woman at the end of the hallway assigned a book on prostitution because what he discovered they said come to my office. tell me what crimes are bothering you.

they were concerned about novels so they had to take these quite seriously that he had no intention of this wasn't going to be tried. one of the things that happened almost all of them were signed intassignedto the one in the wot were seen as a graveyard once he

went there you could never get out. this wasn't a williams court prosecutor but she was assigned to the same work and i think a different person might have complained about being in network. why do we go back to the time but it wasn'that it wasn't a mot was entrepreneurs basically and she believed otherwise. it would be absurd if it pays nothing to the mob. if you spend a lot of time you can find in the record files that were sent but no one else was going to touch and finally put together a good case that

the mob controlled prostitution. around this time the men who fought to be the head was murdered and rose to power and became the most powerful in the nations history this became the target. younis who have spent a lot of time on the records and talk to the women believe she could connect him to the prostitution. so finally february 1, 193602 of them ever worked before and they

were sent to raid the brothels simultaneously and the idea was to arrest all of the women because there were the sixers when one of the people was peops arrested the fixer gets her out of jail so she won't turn the state evidence said they arrested these 160 women. then they waited for them to turn to the higher-ups and what you should know by the way as a footnote nowadays that is a staple of prosecution.

there were a part of cbs lawyers in return you shouldn't have a special way of getting out of that. he was a special prosecutor and thought it was terrible. in the end he was indicted for prostitution and he fled to arkansas where he eventually was tracked down and was arrested after offered aid bribe to let

them stay. it was all because of the work done at the end of the hall. now this being the period that it was she develops a case you misunits did have some responsibility for this repeated itself he decided to go after jimmy hines who was the most powerful politician in the state of new york and it was the same

thing. when he became the appoint her to the special session spirit of. she had a career in a very successful one. they believe in education and importance. a very prominent republican

remember this is how most voted republican and in fact the party of civil rights in the 1930s and 40s. she was heavily involved in political campaigns and so on. he cited younis as evidence that he was not prejudice. he was very badly treated and we can go into that if you would like and he was a scholar who wrote a wonderful dissertation about the socialism.

he did favors for the intelligence and was a serious committed. the fbi file ra grant of 700 pas which took in two comparison was as martin luther king's fbi fi file. so the two of them took these paths you have one republican and one that wants to burn the whole thing down. among other things not only did she think her brother was home and she was wrong also wit thats is why her brother was hurting her career because she wanted wd was supposed to be a judge, and people from the office of both

sorts of distinguished careers, super example william rogers who was secretary of state and attorney general was one of the 20 against the underworld. the distinguished federal judge was one of the underworld and charles brightwell went to the highest court in new york was one of the 20 about six or seven of them became judges and that is what she wanted most of all and she never got to be a judge. she never achieved that and always believed it was because of her brother. her brother in 1951 went to prison for refusing to name names and those who know my work know that i'm very big on the tolerance of dissent.

he worked in a factory for a while and finally left the country in the 1950s and never returned. they spend a lot of times traveling in the soviet union and china but never came back. in 1951 when he faced some troubles ther here was his sisto defend this prosecutor who was a trial lawyer and never went to her for advice.

they correspond when he was in new york where she was in africa but they never really actually reconciled to the. people breaking through barriers when they were very high. my grandmother was just for me a very scary woman who was quickly cut back your grammar or which fork you used at the table. so she scared us.

i didn't do anything about her life at the time. they feature prominence on the magazine and it doesn't exist anywhere but it's the largest magazine in the country and even then when television was young. i also want to say my daughter

but the law practice and dug through a lot of archive love od did a lot of interviews as well but the book reflects her work as much as mine. two last-place to make. in addition to the work that is done as a lawyer. she talked about a lot in 1937 for example she talked about the men who use their positions of

power to force women into intimate relationships and she said in the speech that burning in the whale is too good for men of this sort so at a time when you didn't see it they saw this as a distraction that they would never get to the heart of their cause. eunice didn't believe that and gave a speech in greece. she talked about countries

including the united states and she talked about it as a kind of dictatorship and about the way that after a while there's a voice that begins to whisper in your mind. she was way ahead of her time on that issue as well and you can talk about that if you like the lasbutthe last thing i would men her parents were both big and important activists. he most famously had lunch at buckingham palace and other

places. he was a big activist as well for the rhetoric of the century when he came along her mother did among other things she went to europe during world war i with the black troops there were all these hundreds who went to work in peace jobs to unwind a. it is still referenced when

historians write about this today. the community has become subdu subdued. it was in the face of the intimidation and she was well aware of the dangers of what she was doing it that traveled from what we know one of them is the only field secretary began to feel a little bit mistreated her

and about gender as well as race. so this great accomplished woman and at the time she started out she was being shoved aside. they published a novel that this woman who once terrified me has now become someone i really lo

love. thank you and i would be happy to take your questions. wait for the microphone. please, go ahead. later on he became quite comfy he was let go and exiled to italy. >> his papers reflect against

the intelligence that pressured him to a because he had alleged protection orthodox and supposedly make context with those that are in sicily. those stories are probably not true. but it was too leading luciana go. i should add unfortunately he's become a romantic figure to a lot of writers.

they haven't looked at the transcript where the evidence that my grandmother put together a. we can differ and that is what he was convicted up with of the was convicted of a. >> you eluded to your grandmother's brother's treatment. can you comment on that? her brother came to harvard to get a masters degree in literature. upon arriving at harvard by the legendary dean of harvard graduate school because he had

gone to howard university when i first came across it i thought that this would only happen to the howard students at that have gone to amherst and nevertheless he was quite upset about this and he couldn't afford it. she didn't have the money. he tried several ways to get around the requirement to. he arrived after the episode

many of you may know about so when they developed a system in harvard there's no question that he decided that a baby we shouldn't live in the houses because they wouldn't be comfortable there. this is a huge battle in all of the newspapers it was finally overruled by the corporation but they linger. it was a part that was very current at the time. this gentle man and then we both come over here.

>> second question the prosecution of jimmy hines i'm wondering whether they had a role. those are my two questions. >> the first one first if there was a riot and they appointed a commission i have no idea if it

is true that is what is often written about it. there are some accounts he was a research director and if you look at the commission. to beg for money to pay they became very close to end up to the first draft of the

commission's and they stayed in touch for a while. a place in 1937 directed against the numbers runners that was enormously possible and when he was finally arrested it cost eunice something on the streets of zürich was a great and colorful and wonderful man.

the what i said before when eunice was simply prosecuting the white gangsters, harlem curb the number of skins. she was not. now she was doing something that was wrong. in the baseball hall of fame back over here wait a minute for the boom.

>> i am interested more in your grandmother is a lot more famiy stuff here. >> my grandmother died when i was in high school and i didn't know any of these stories at the time. my grandfather was a dentist and they met in the 1920s she was involved in defining and creating a clinic in harlem and that appears to be when they met. they had a troubled marriage.

they first came to prominence in the century as they could speaker on the duties of like motherhood and she preached that the future of the race was dependent upon black women basically staying home and raising children. she was off getting speeches somewhere. it appears we can't depend on

exactly the something that actually occurred. when her husband was diagnosed with cancer in the late 50s, she suspended her other activities in order to care for him. asked if m my memories i will share a couple of the family stories. she used to come visit us every year at christmas she would come on the train and had a fear of flying. she would come to the train and i remember meeting her at washington and she would spend two days with more salt than you can picture. the memory i have is constantly either waving her off for meeting her because she was always getting of the ocean

liners and going to europe. she had to go first class and was always wearing expensive furs and so on and so forth. they went and did that and the expensive taste came as we as children realized this woman actually ever have a funny or wanted the world to think she did a good. it was the same thing that other people could decide whether to admire but i wanted something

admirable but there is something admirable about the notion it was deeply satisfying but they tried to do something and have a sense of accomplishment even if i don't agree with the way they went about doing it. >> she went to smith college and graduated in the class of 1921. her education was probably paid for meeting by the prominent graduate who was wealthy

activist and socialist and we believe she paid for the education when she left she tried being a teacher in the south but returned to new york and became part of the renaissance and was inducted into the writers guild which at the time was the top at any one time at all the peopl and all tu could imagine where members inducted at the same time as some of you may have heard of as the great writers of the 20th so how did these people get in? i didn't vote for them. i guess she did that for a while

and was on a path that might havhave made her with adam clayn powell used to claim ran the harlem society. it was the path that she was on. she could have gone on writing and stay on that path but who knows how that would have worked out. it's interesting if you look at the law school in the time.

at the time they try to pick up the slack and the schools were opposed and tried to shut down in this area to give you one example. the catholic law schools for educational and had a mission to immigrants to people of color into the jewish students many of them couldn't get into the law schools so if you look at the history especially in urban then areas, you would find they were replete witreplaced with those t couldn't go elsewhere. this is where she went and she edited in 1927 and she got a second daseconds left for a whi.

she graduated in the early 1930s and hung out a shingle in harlem and immediately couldn't get any work. most people wanted weiss lawyers at the time, but black women is something people took a while to get used to. she defended a very prominent gossip columnist of the 1920s and 30s and defended him when he was extradited paying child support not going back to michigan to the jail cell but she lost and he went to jail in michigan and probably deservedly because he didn't pay child support i don't remember how many years it was.

she ran for the state legislature and lost. the registration was denied and took the case on the eve of the election from her friends at the amsterdam news said she wrote about protecting the right to vote. i have a little side thing is that the remember of the party and i wondered does the communist party is very active in fighting the cases? it's one of the prominent forces working on that so when we think of the party is important to

remember that history also. but i was curious how your father talked about his brother. >> let me say this about the communist party. a lot of intellectuals were connected in the 20s and 30s, in fact they came out for equal rights back around the time i remember exactly when it was i think it was around 1920 or so. there were a lot of black intellectuals at the tim of thee soviet union established and they saw hope in future and traveled and studied for a while and tried to burn. most of these people after a few years decided that wasn't the

way they would double down so we look for example entry into world war ii where germany and the soviet union were allies and he was opposed to world war ii and as soon as germany turned on and invaded the russian territory, he said it's crucial that they get involved and so on and so on. so here yo things are a little t awkward because here eunice the only child and when he was young, she sent him to barbados where he spent five or six years and there's a story around the office because they had taken questions from their families

but the problem is she sent him to barbados six months before she was hired so that can't possibly be the reason. she didn't know what to do and sent him off to prep school. .. . >> he went down with her on

the train and he said that train ride with his mother i think he was six or seven years old was the happiest time they ever had together and that's not anything he had ever experienced that he remembered. but he had enormous respect and love to tell the story but never told me the story when she was alive but after she died i knew nothing of any of that when i was growing up. >>.

>> that is a very good point the luciano trial made him a national figure so he decided he should become president. [laughter] so luciano is convicted within and 38 dewey is elected district attorney so with that nomination he ran for president and with the most delegates and couldn't get the nomination this was the last dark horse candidate who took multiple ballots and was compromised and was smashed by roosevelt him and my grandmother became very close

as governor of new york and then 44 and 48 dewey campaigns for president and to persuading the delegates with those platforms and then you see in the book there is a cover of eunice standing in a meeting. with the battle of the platform.

and in both 44 and 48 and he talked about her trying to bring the black vote back that was his plan for winning. and then she also didn't like to admit it even though by the way the black vote that was very heavy republican. so we know that it was different to say those precinct level numbers. . >> what about the relationship

with eleanor roosevelt quick. >> she was a great friend and a great candidate so there is a speech that she gave basically she would say that eleanor roosevelt of that element is about her husband but he refused to allow black reporters inside the press conferences that is a matter of record but nevertheless lied to the public that that is not true. and then wish that we could

get back in the sense he was very bad about race issues which is why what is that famous poem by langston hughes? and he famously came out long before he did not vote that the black voters got nothing in return. so the important thing about her story is it is the fortitude from which she almost single-handedly with those white prosecutors to be the correct one. thank you all very much for your time. [applause]