then at 11, the wreath laying ceremony at the tomb of the unknowns live from arlington national cemetery area and our live veterans day coverage continues at 5 pm eastern with the liberty awards honoring former president george w. bush and laura bush on american history tv on c-span3, historians never the 1921 film documenting the journey of a world war i soldiers remains from france to arlington national cemetery. at 6 pm, we visit the music argonne american cemetery in northeastern france the final resting place for over 14,000 americansoldiers and at 8 pm eastern , president from world war i ceremonies in paris sunday, veterans day on c-span, and american history tv on c-span.org 23. >>.

>> up next, former leaders of the us conference of catholic bishops child protection review board discussed child abuse by catholic priests and reforms the catholic church could undertake from the sitting club of chicago, this is about an hour. >>. >> thank you jay. thank everyone today for being here, good afternoon. i'd like to thank the city club members as well for inviting us to discuss the current crisis in thecatholic church . when i last had the opportunity to speak to the city club audience regarding this topic, it was march 3, 2004, 14 years ago. the crux of my talk at that time regarding the release of the national review boards report, i said as a rational thinking person and a legal professional, i have had to recognize the difference between the church and the hierarchy.

i hope we all do. while some of our leaders they have failed us, others among them have fought to set things right. i believe they have begun to accomplish this in convening the unprecedented lay board on which i have been serving. it is the expression of the real willingness to respond to this abuse crisis in the most effective and systemic way possible. >> that was 14 years ago. now i realize i was mistaken. in thinking the hierarchy and the catholic church would implement the recommendations in the report of the national review board. >> it is my pleasure this afternoon to moderate this distinguished panel to assess the current crisis in the catholic church and read current sexual abuse scandal. most scandals have been drawn into sharper renewed focus in

the recent months as a result of the lengthy probe into the handling of a multitude of abuse claims against the pennsylvania catholic diocese. in the years following the 2002 formation of the national review board, by the united states conference of catholic bishops as an independent, totally independent body of laymen and women whose mission and purpose was to advise the conference in ending the epidemic of sexual abuse against minors in the united states for those whose service at the church appeared to begin doing something . however, this new crisis sadly and tragically has emerged. and that is why the present time of crisis, a crisis of leadership, we will be discussing two of the

problems of the national review board of the united states conference ofcatholic bishops confronted .16 years ago the intransigence and unwillingness of the bishops to grant us the national review board the authority to investigate the bishops and the cardinals and number two, a credible evidence in a willful and elaborate cover-up of these undeniably horrifying actual crimes committed against underage victims by priests. now it is clear that a code of silence permeated diocese across the united states. we did recommend that adoption of a whistleblower policy, obviously it wasn't adopted by the bishops. present today to discuss these matters is my friend and doctor kathleen mcelhaney, esteemed former fbi executive assistant director, the former special

agent in charge of the chicago division and the first executive director of the office of child and youth protection of the united states conference of catholic bishops and also an author. since 2002, doctor mcchesney has traveled the world to establish prevention programs aimed at stemming sexual abuse. she is currently the ceo of conceal management consulting, providing strategic services to businesses and non-for-profit organizations . doctor chesney, will you please join me. >>. >> also on the panel today is robert s bennett, a good friend and one of our nations preeminence trial attorneys. rob has cochaired several american bar association national institute programs

and represented former president bill clinton into former secretaries of the defense, clark clifford and caspar weinberger in high profile litigation. he is a fellow of the american college of trial lawyers and at various times served as special counsel to the united states senate committee on ethics and is an author also in his latest book, in the ring: the trials of a washington lawyer. bob was also the primary author of the national review boards report on the crisis of thecatholic church in the united states . february 27 2004. rob, will you please join us. [applause] all right.

and you'll hear me? blessed you. okay. for bob, the national review board conducted a thorough investigation into clerical sexual abuse and reported the number ofoffenders and victims . why after 14 years are we still learning about grand jury's convening across the country to investigate priests who abuse minors? >> well, it's because the bishops , really didn't follow all of our recommendations. in fact, we were prohibited from looking into the bishops . our task was simply to look into the priests.

and we didn't have subpoena power. we didn't have access to the documents. so i'm going to be as candid with you, i think you deserve that. the vatican and its structure really consists of, and i can say this because i'm an old man, is a bunch of old men who don't really want to reform anything. >> ..

who don't know which distinction between god and authority figure who's representing the church. so the problem continues but i think it's important to note that there has been progress in the catholic church in the sense of diminishing the number of cases that have been occurring over time. during the peak years in the 1970 said, there were over the decade of the 80's there were about 271 on average cases per year. during the past 15 years that number has dropped to 13 cases her year. now one case is dreadful and

reprehensible. the fact those numbers have gone down can be attributed to the fact that presentation programs do work abutte awareness programs do work. >> i have a number of grandchildren who are in catholic schools and i feel very safe about that. i don't think they're at risk like they used to be. i would like to think our board has something to do with that. but i have to tell you i think the main reason is that the law enforcement authorities are no longer staying away from the church and they are investigate and prosecuting, and subpoenaing, and various places just so i'm in pennsylvania, and now many other states are saying

it's no longer hands-off, forget separation of church and state, we're coming after you. and that gets their attention. >> i agree with you bob exactly on that. sexual abuse is a crime, across this country in every tate and in many countries across the world. the first response should be a law enforcement response. the second response would be come from the organize. and as a result of the national review board's work on that kathleen, isn't true every disees, a good example here in chicago, that there is sufficient training background checks, but who is watching over to make sure all the other disees around the country are convincingly trusted as we could

say in chicago as a result of some of the work? >> when the bishops set forth their programs in 2002, one of the things the national review board did and oversaw was the pledges of an audit process, an external audit process to make certain each of the 195 disees was compliant with having abuse awareness training done and background checks done and the audit checks that on an annual basis. there's an annual report about this. but, in the years that have passed, since 202, since we call the spotlight years you have seen sort of a tiring a fatiguing of the issue. and so i would say in the past 5-10 years people have not paid attention to those numbers. they have not paid attacks to the fact there have been audits of the diocese to make shen

they're complients with those procedures. there's better screenings for seminarians as well. >> bob do you have anything to add to that? >> no i think kathleen covered it well. >> some people alleged that the church leadership have been turning a blind eye to the abuse academic because of their lack of accountable to the lay people in church. that's why last week, bob, you appeared at georgetown university and you were amazed at the number of people and some other issues. can you explain to us what happened last week? >> well it was somewhat remarkable. it was 506-700 people there on this issue. it was amazing to me. i think what's happened is the -- has realized that it's

their church. it's not the church of the vatican and those in the vatican. it is our church and i think the vatican -- i'm using that term in the general sense is becoming almost irrelevant. it's your relationship with god that matters. who asks what the politician asks the church anymore what their moral position is on an issue? i'm when i was in school they did it all the time. now they don't bother because they see you can't even keep your own house in order. and people are pretty fed up, the cathlongs are pretty fed up. my own daughter, the catholics are fed up. my own daughter who is older now, what does the church to for them? they're second-class citizen.

one of the problems is while they feel that way they don't have a place to go. maybe they go to the local priest or occasionally their local bishop but it doesn't go any place. it's like a glass ceiling and i think one of the things that has to be done is i think that we should create like a national association of conserved catholics, and the head of that our our representative of that should have a seat at the table in the vatican. i don't mean they have to be a priest, but they would have to have access to the folks there because no input is given into the vatican, and the people there. you and i have talked about this. and you know it's just our compliance just goes -- you know they go up there someplace, and

the cloud whatever that is. [laughter] nothing is really done about it. >> bob you mentioned, the vatican, when we were on the national review board we did visit the vatican. why don't you tell the audience some of our experiences going to meet with some of the cardinal? >> it was interesting. it started out on the wrong foot because being a good little catholic boy i knew i just couldn't get in touch with the vatican. i didn't have their phone number. so i played by the rules and i called our local nunsio, of course he wouldn't return the call, but one of his third-level delegates called me and said i'm sorry mr. been president, you and the other t this is not a

plaintiff's organize this is a creature of the bishop's he's sorry the nunsio doesn't feel the subject is within his jurisdiction. and i said somewhat irreverently, child abuse is not within his jurisdiction? no, no i'm sorry. then i did something with ann's permission. she was running the show. i sent a bunch of faxes to them. and i got admonished by one of the bishops for that. he said you don't send faxes to the vatican. [laughter] and i said well, before you get too upset with me, let me tell you i gottic faxes back. one was from cardinal ratinger who was at the time the most powerful person in rome, and a

year later he became pope benedict. so ann, bill burly, a very prominent catholic layman, we went over there, and it was pretty remarkable. we met with cardinal ratsinger for two hours. you can't even get to see the guy, and we were here two hours. it wasn't us. he was hearing things for the first time. we o told him about things, and he couldn't believe what he was hearing. want that your reaction? and so we felt it was a successful meeting and we left. so let's go have a good italian dinner, and we had a crazy cab driver, and cardinal stepped off the curb and we missed him by

about 67 inches. 67 six inches. wiped out cardinal -- [laughter] >> kathleen, you as a former fbi agent and head of the office of child and youth protection organized the first audit where you hired personally 55 former fbi agents to go into the diosej r ze were the bishops that grateful to see you? >> the idea of the audits themselves was part of the bishops plans which was set forth in the charter for the protection of young people. i think there were probably some bishops who didn't think the day would ever come when they would be audited by play professionals who were outside of the employ

of the church. so i think there was shock on the part of some. but, over time, because i think we established a credible process, it's not an investigate ive process, it's a compliance review process, because of that i think many bishops have come to rely on the expertise of the auditors, particularly in the early years who had people with law enforcement experience and who had management experience. one of the things for those of you who work in or are perhaps familiar with the church and how it does business is that it doesn't do business. the church is a church and the business belongs to the business world. and that's one of the things that i think contributed to the confusion about what the church is about. many people don't understand its structure. many people still think that in the united states there must be

some bishop who was in charge of all other bishops. that's not the case. all bishops report to roam. in the same way that all roads lead to roam. that is how it works in the united states. if there were structural changes, then perhaps you could have people who are closer geographically, and culturally to the issues to hold bishops accountable for actions they've taken or not taken. in. >> and the follow-up to that. the united states conference of catholic bishops, president -- or i should say cardinal daniel and cardinal shawn o'malley, and cardinal jose gomez were summoned to roam on september 13th just a few weeks ago and since then i don't think we've heard anything from them as to what happened in the meeting in rome.

so, award to structure, i know that there was a cry for having a authorized visit to the united states, and it appears that with no word from rome, that nothing's going to happen. do you believe that kathleen? >> well i don't have any inside information about that. i do know the bishop's conference through its bishop cardinal has asked them for a visitation. what that means for those that don't understand that. is that the holeacy would appoint someone to come to the united states or maybe someone here who is a cleric, who would lead an investigation into the allegations in this case, having to do with cardinal mccarrick, and why he was able to be

promoted within the church when allegedly different individuals knew that he had abused seminarians. so, i think that the process is still underway in terms of appointing someone to do this. but another point that i'd like to make about a visitation while that is authorized, by the holy seat, it has to be a partnership to be credible at this point in time. it has to be a partnership that includes lay professionals who have law enforcement experience, investigative experience, who have some knowledge of the church. others have said, that an apostolic visitation is not the right thing to do. that it should be just a total external investigation. without clerics involved. so that's -- i don't believe that's something that's being debated at the holey seat but i

don't know yet and i think we're going to have to wait. >> do you remember when we interviewed kathleen for the job? >> i do. >> and she came in, and you said well you know these bishops and cardinals they're a bunch of tough old men, and you think you can handle them? and your response was, well she was number 3 in the bureau. she said i deal with tough old men all the time, and they have guns. [laughter] s. [applause] >> there's one story and i hope kathleen doesn't get mad at me for telling it, but as a board wield go around the country and try to go have our meetings at a board and each one of the board members mdiocese, and we were ready to go to new york, and the member of the board was pamela hays a lawyer in new york, and

we got word that cardinal eagan who is actually from oak park. he would like to say chicago but he's from oak park, said i don't want that fbi agent in a skirt coming into new york. that's the kind of pushback that we got. and i know kathleen as she went around and her men and women went around to investigate not all diocese cooperated, is that right kathleen. >> that's correct. first let me finish on what you said. i did go to new york and it did matter. and i probably wore a skirt too. neither here nor there. [laughter] there was a bishop who declined to take part of the audits for several years. that was the bishop of lincoln nebraska, he's since been replaced and they are participating in the audit. but a real interesting point is

the fact that all his brother bishops were participating, and the fact that he declined there was no consequence whatsoever. and i was wondering where the lay people were in his dio cease that weren't insisting they have external audits. if there was a point we wanted to make by us being here today, it is first of all to thank all of you as lay persons for being interested and hopefully activists on these issues. and making certain that your respective bishops or archbishops or cardinals whatever they might be as well as the provincials of the religious communities because a third on it priests in the country are members of a religious communities and not in terms of associate would disees. so so what we would hope is that you would continue to make your voices heard about things that

are going on that either you don't understand or you think need to be corrected within the church diocese. whatever the issue might be. this is much broader than abutte, but abuse is the most important thing right now. >> bob, we have been talking earlier about some of the things that possibly need to be changed in the church. and even though the bishops didn't necessarily in the cardinals pay attention to our recommendations about accountable on their behalf, what do you think needs to -- broadly what needs to be changed in the church? in the hierarchy? >> this is where i get cholesterol get close to being excommunicated. let me make one point, our investigation was very serious and at the moment i was at a law

firm and i got the permission of wane and others to really do it right and at the end of the day, we wrote off it million dollars in time because of the use of various brilliant young lawyers and not so young lawyers. and my only mention that number because it shows wayne and his partners commitment even though many were jewish, protestant. but this was serious, a serious investigation. now i've been thinking about these issues for a long time, and especially the last 20 years. so here's what i think. to get very practical and believe me i'm not naive. i have no belief that in my lifetime or lifetimes after this

will be done. but if you want to make this a healthy church, and solve many of the problems here's what i would recommend. first, i'm absolutely convinced that celibacy should be voluntary. to some, celibacy is a great gift. to others, it's an alba trawses which leads priests into heavy drinking. womanizing, etc. and we don't need to talk about womanizing anymore, but this is about power and there were many priests i came across in the last 20 years who will counsel women who are having trouble in their marriage and winding up trying to bed them. so i really think celibacy is got to be voluntary.

i think we should have married priest physical they choose. we have priests in the church that are married, those apiscupailian priests that become catholics, the marianites, and i'm sure there will be others. i'm sure there will be problems, divorced and things. but those problems are nothing compared to what we have. third, i think we should have women priests. there's no good reason not to have women priests. this is thought a matter of -- [applause] i have discovered in our investigation and elsewhere, some of these nuns are the best people we have in our church. and i can't -- [applause] can you imagine a woman priest sitting at breakfast with a male priest bishop and he says i think i'm going to send jones to

idaho, and maybe he'll stop this abusing. it wouldn't happen. not -- it wouldn't happen. and as i said earlier, i think that we need to have a lay position in the vatican with some kind of authority, so they have access. think about it. in this day and age to say you know women can't be priests. my wife was the president of sore, the support our aging religion. and the great men in the vatican have treated nuns like garbage. those are my views. for very practical solutions, but you know the chance of this happening is negligible. because if you have a police who is at all reform minded they're

never going to get up to the real power phase because the people who get up there are the identical people who are there already. and they don't want young bishops or young priests to rock the boat. now that's just a fact of the matter. and you can talk around that stuff but that's the way it is. and that's based on my views of over 20 years. focusing on in 20 years. >> kathleen, do you believe that this movement that's in the church those who are against pope francis and those who are more conservative shall we say are trying to put blame on homosexual priests? our reports r report shows otherwise. is that not true? >> well there are a couple of

issues -- questions in the question there. and one has to do with our people putting people who have certain agendas, either pro-gay or anti-gay are they fighting each other over the issue of sex abuse? and i think that yes they are. i think it's a very sad thing that you have or the appearance of people on both sides fighting each other about the most important thing, which is protecting children. and that gets lost by the wayside when they're talking about whose ideology is the most important and whether people like pope franceing or they don't like pope franceing or they like his appointments or not. none of that matters if you're not focused on the child. >> let me -- that's the elephant in the room. we recommended further study on the subject of homosexuality.

nobody knows precisely but i've heard of statistics that probably 30-50% or more of the priests have homosexual tendencies. the certainly most of the cases involved homosexual conduct. so you can't just wish it away. but there's a big difference between a man who has a tendency, and one who acts on it. and i think it would be terrible for the church to get rid of men who simply had a homosexual tendency. these young polices priests whof a sexual orientation, they didn't get training or how to cope with it in their careers. they were told like i was told in high school. take a cold shower. you can't do that.

and so i think that's something that requires a lot of attention. a lot of attention. but by the same token, heterosexual men who go in, you have to be sure that they -- what their tendencies are not to be acting out with women. so, you know you have to be very careful and one of the things with this -- letter, looks to me like there may be an effort to sort of rid the church of homosexual oriented men which i think would not be good for the church. >> do you believe that the pope needs to take more active leadership role here in the united states, it seems like there's some sort of a disconnect between what the lay people have been talking about, and what the hierarchy has been talking about, and the

inactiveness to some degree about listening to the lay people? kathleen? >> one of the problems with being the leader of the largest christian organize in the world, is that you only have so many moments in the day. from those of us the united states that really understand organizes and structures, the personal in charge at the top isn't the person it's going to get a lot of the things done. and i think that here in the united states if you had some decentralization of power within the church, you would be able to handle the issues more nimbly and more effectively, so to say it would be better for the pope were involved in all of our issues, i don't think that's the answer. i think the answer is something here in the united states where you have the kind of leadership that can actually get things done, and hold people accountable within the church

within the united states. just to give you an example, there are a number of offenders over the years who have been identified, clergy, who have abused minors or vulnerable dultses. a number of these people were proposed for -- there are literally hundreds of those cases awaiting the judicial decision at the holy c about whether or not to layicize these men. that shouldn't be. these should be completed quickly. there's evident some people have gone to jail, and so forth. if you had rasystem where you could adjudicate here in the united states more quickly, and save the work of the folks in rome and the various people for appeals only you could get this process done. you could get better accountable, and you wouldn't have these people who were still

lingering in the priesthood. bob? >> i agree with that. >> okay. i think that we pretty much said what we were planning on saying unless there's some final comment before we take questions. >> okay. i can't believe it's only one question here. >> one thing justice i forgot to acknowledge marry ellen. thank you and i apologize. [applause] and don't be shy.

should the report issued by the national review board be reviewed and continually updated? and the other was, what was

the issue with regard to the grand jury and in pennsylvania and their subpoena power. kathy, you could probably answer that better but if you could start, we can all shine in on it >> i think i understood the question a little bit differently. you asked about the study in 2002 commissioned by the john jay study and that was separate fromthe national review board report but in the john jay study , the john jay college of criminal justice, not, catholic institution but a research institution surveyed all the diocese in the country to find out what the nature and scope ofthe problem of abuse was . and your question is should that be, should there be a new study in that regard? i don't think there needs to

be a new study, there is a process in place by which the research group from georgetown university collect that data every year and puts it in an annual report. it's important to note a lot of people don't know that and often there's press releases and so forth, those numbers have been added to every year since 2004 when the john jay report came out. that's a different issue than being transparent and disclosing the names of offenders and that is something that this board, that my office that we recommended back in 2002, that if you're going to be transparent, you need to let people know who those offenders are . you're in the archdiocese of chicago, names were released. in other places, names have been released but it's not universal. it's absolutely something that needs to be done so that victims can heal and other people who haven't reported will be able to know that

they're not alone. whether they come forward or not, knowing you're not alone goes so far in helping that person who's been victimized. bob? there are a number of questions and one of them want was why the archdiocese of chicago was on the panel. while there was no one and two other members from the archdiocese from the national review board so this was about the national review board and not about what any archdiocese or anydiocese have done or not done . [inaudible] >> we've asked the cardinal five or six times and no response . he's alwayswelcome . >> doctor shannon, was your question answered?

from kate moylan, short of the schism, how can leigh take over and force a reconstruction of the church? is a restructuring of iraqispossible ? okay. >> no, i don't think it's possible but i do think if we were able to have a seat at the table at the vatican, we might be able to inform some of the decisions. also, i think if the lady realizes it's theirchurch , perhaps those in the vatican will realize that if they don't get onwith the program , they're going to become more and more irrelevant and remote . >> you don't have a -- okay.

kate o'malley, it seems this is the choice that catholics have is to stay and fight for the church, or find another christianchurch . if we stay, what realistically can we do to reform the catholic church so we see the issue is addressed in our lifetime. >> that's similar to the last question in terms of how the laity can move forward. like i said before, using yourvoice , letting your bishops and cardinals and superiors know how you feel and come forward with concrete suggestions like bob has about insisting on a seat at thetable . you have congregations like congregations for clergy or congregation for bishops in the holy see. if they had leigh advisories for counsel who could listen

to their issues and provide a perspective from the laity, that would be at least a small step towards making some fundamental structural changes. >> didn't you tell me that if i remember quickly correctly at some of the wealthiest tributaries to the church are withholding? >> i've seen checks have been written and there's nothing in it. yes. there's also, i think that with regard to what laypeople can do is doing what you're doing here and that is attending forums where this repression can be talked about. bob told you about last week he was at georgetown where there were over 600 people talking about the issue as laypeople what they should do

. and i was at old saint pats monday night with 400 people talking about this issue. and i think that's exactly what we should be doing is having a conversation about this issue and be engaged in our church as laypeople and insisting that our parishes and dioceses across the country have these conversations and include the bishops, include the cardinal so they know what you're thinking . if you're not talking about it with them, and you can't possibly know what's going on so i'd like to also talk about -- actually, the one thing i do want to point out to you is everybody is angry. and i think mom, you said the same thing. kathleen, i know you go around the world and talk to people and have been discussing this for the last

15 years in countries all over the world and people want to be catholic. they want to be part of the church and your words to them , i can probably quote what i want, i'll let you do it . >> back in 2002 which we call the spotlight years for those of you have seen the movie and knew that's when the catholic church face this crisis to begin with, what we , i said to you use your voice but there's another part of that and i want to give a shout out really to the media. to the boston globe for doing their investigative report. to the secular media as well as the catholic media, many of you cannot read much in the catholic literature, but there is a lot of information there and bishops do read that and we listen.

i'm not say 100 percent because i wouldn't say that but many of them pay attention to the ideas that are brought forth from lay professionals. one thing i've seen over the last 15 years or so is the fact that many of the bishops i work with at least have really come to have a high regard for the expertise and people bring forth, whether their attorneys but more important in the social science areas, psychology, sociology. they listen to what people are thinking and saying, but again, there has to be more voices, we have to be louder . we have to make certain the media doesn't let the issue go as it did after 2004, 2005 . many people that saw the spotlight will be for example were just not familiar with what had happened in 2002. every day a child is at risk

for being abused by someone who is a predator, whether it's in a school or in an organization or in their own family, so as adults we have to be vigilant about this. we are responsible for protecting young people, they're not responsible for protecting themselves. >> one of the things we learned if you remember is that the lawyers for the diocese acted like they were working for insurance companies and were risk managers. i remember one case i came across, there was a six-year-old little girl who was molested and the lawyer for the diocese submitted a pleading saying that she was

contributorily negligent. i mean, how crazy is that? and if your focus is affecting funds, avoiding scandal and not the well-being of children, you're never going to solve these problems? >> that's exactly true and that's what everybody saying and every one of these questions are saying what you do if you believe that you're a bishop for your cardinal isn't addressingthem, what can be done ? and i think kathleen, you stated that be louder, got to have the press help us and also another question was, and we discussed this, do you think holding money contributions impact. >> the trouble with that is i mean, where being pretty talk on the church here today, at

least organized church. we do a lot of wonderful things like catholic charities and things and you don't want to hold funds at the expense of things like catholic charities and things like that, so i'm troubled about this idea of just withholding money. i would withhold money in a minute to contribute to a portrait of a cardinal. let him pay for his own portrait. but good work, charitable work. >> i totally agree with you on the fact that if you withhold money, you may be withholding salaries of educators or people that are doing important ministries. i don't think that is necessarily the answer. but where you can be activists is making certain

that your parishes and your diocese are open and transparent about how they spend money. in a lot of parishes once a year there's maybe an bulletin says here's how we spent the money. that going in the trash or do you take time to look at it? are you part of finance councils? you support finance councils area if your parish doesn't have a finance council are you asking why, if the diocese doesn't share information about their finances, you ever ask why? if not, you should read it. >> last call for one more question . >> i have a joke i want to tell.>> final remarks, okay . >> you want me to tell it now?

>> one more question over here. and then final. [inaudible] there's a lot of catholic power in this room and we've got convinced somehow the vatican to give us a place. i think we have to organize in the sense of some part of a national organization of catholics who have concerns and to do everything within our power to influence our bishops to say look , let's get a layman in a position not to talk about church doctrine but so they can be heard so they have access to the people who have the

power. >> that was the last question you cannot closing statements kathleen. if you wish. >> kathleen. >> first of all, thank you for the opportunity to talk about this important topic once again. please don't let it go by the wayside. as it has in years past. the newest cycle, we but the difficult issues. i totally understand that but it's just too important and do look to all the organizations. you are leaders in the community, look you and i know what's been going on here in chicago but across the land. in organizations. make certain that the procedures are in place to protect children. make certain if you see something that it's untoward, particularly if you see a cleric who is possibly

violating some boundary with a young person or a vulnerable adult, that you come forward, don't just sit and see that anotherrumor or that's bothering me, come forward, let the right people investigate . >> this has been a very depressing lunch. so i want to try to cheer you up a little bit, for those who heard this story, i apologize. there is this brilliant young lawyer named joe collins and he died at a very early age of 40. and he goes up to heaven and their st. peter at the gates. and he's a little upset. he says why, because i'm so young and st. peter said well,.god just want you up here withhim . you've been so brilliant and

good and you going to mass every day and you contribute, god wants you with him and in fact, i'm under instructions to ask you is there anything at all we can do for you. while you're here. and collins thinks and hesaid to tell you the truth , he said i would love to meet the blessed mother. i do a novena to her every week. she's the center of mylife . and st. peter says wow, that's a really tall order. but i'll do what i can and he gets back collins and he says well, i can do it. i've got me okay and he's over there with posting clouds are and the angels and so he goes over there to see her. and it's an incredible meeting. they talk and she knows all about him.

thoughts and after about a half an hour he says blessed mother, i don't want to be a sumptuous but you don't look happy. and she said well, collins, i understand why you're such a good lawyer. i am a little sad. and he said why? millions and millions of people pray to you all, every day. you're the mother of jesus christ . what's there to be unhappy about? and she says to collins, she says well, to tell you the truth i wanted agirl . [applause] >> tonight on cspan2's book

tv in primetime. at eight eastern new yorker staff writer jill laporte on her book these truths, a one volume history of the united states. and then presidential historian doris turns goodwin talks about her book leadership in turbulent times about the key moments in the presidencies of abraham lincoln, the inner roosevelt, fdr and lbj and later and coulter on her bookresistance is futile. book tv in primetime is tonight on cspan2 running at eight eastern . coming up this weekend on book tv saturday at noon eastern southern festival of books from nashville with author adam parker and his book outside agitator, the civil rights struggle of cleveland sellers junior followed by a discussion on the political divide with jennifer cavanaugh and michael rich, authors of truth decay. our coverage continues at 1 pm eastern with elliott born and his book blessed people

be, the story of emmett till and bob smith on reagan, an american journal. new york times magazine jeanmarie mask is talks about to obamawith love, joy, anger and hope . >> the woman with the gold was angering with south carolina in 2007. the rally was a bust. no one there but a small gathering of local folks needing something to do. obama was looking out atthe emptiness . fired up, ready to go, the woman with the gold tooth abruptly shouted and as if on queue, the people around her repeatedher words , began to chant and in an instant rally went from dismal to glorious. it shows you what one voice can do, that one voice can change a room, obama said at a rally a year later recounting thestory and voice can change a room , it can

change a city. >> at 9 pm eastern on afterwards, then sat from nebraska talks about his book then, why we hate each other and how to heal. he's interviewed by arthur brooks, president of the american enterprise institute . >> i don't think political tribalism is the story of our moment, i think it's filling the vacuum of the declining local tribe and the tribes that make people happy, family, deep friendships, shared locations or meaningful work, local worshiping communities, all those things are being undermined moment where i in technological history . >> watch this weekend on book tv. >>. >> join c-span sunday, veterans day live at 4:30 a.m. eastern the 100 anniversary of the end of world war i with french president and nul micron eating apart the trio.

at 7:30 a.m., washington journal is live on c-span in american history tv on c-span three or a special call-in program about what was hoped to be the war to end all wars with guests loyola university professor john mosher and georgetown university three professor michael cayson. at nine eastern on c-span coverage of president trump and first lady men on it from world war i ceremonies in paris, then at 11 , the wreathlaying ceremony at the tomb of the unknowns live from arlington national cemetery and our life veterans day coverage continues at 5 pm eastern with the liberty awards honoring former president george w. bush and laura bush on american history tv on c-span three at 9 am eastern, historians never silent film documenting the journey of the world war i soldiers remains from france to arlington national cemetery. at 6 pm we visit the muse

argonne american cemetery in northeastern france, the final resting place for over 14,000 american soldiers and p.m. eastern, the president trump of the worldwar i ceremonies in paris . today, veterans day on c-span in american history tv on c-span three. >> congress is back for a lame-duck session next week on tuesday, november 13 area in the house is expected to work on legislation funding the federal government passed a december 7 deadline and current government only expires and the senate will take up legislation on coast guard programs in a nomination for the federal reserve board. see the house live and wants to say live on the stand. >> the national endowment for democracy recently hosted a discussion on the state of democracy in the formerly communistcountries of europe