play and for me the most important part of this cover is the word citizen . how do you practice citizenship? and for me, it's never required pieces of paper and lost because i don't have papers on the log not been passed citizenship is cleaning my full self while knowing or not the onlyperson in the room . i'm part of america, that we have a stake in each other's life. >> that's an important lesson for us to carry away, thank you so much. josc antonio vargas for dear america, a wonderful book and it's great to be talking with you today. >> c-span: where history unfolds daily. c-span was created asa public service by america's cable television companies and today, we continue to bring you unfiltered coverageof congress , the white house ,

the supreme court andpublic policy events in washington dc and around the country . c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> now live on book tv, our year-long action version of in-depth concludes with brad meltzer, his book concludes theinner-circle and the escape artist . >> .. this book help you realize the difference between being alive and actually living. the book is called "the escape artist." explain. >> guest: i wish i was smart enough to cope with the got the team when i start. this would be the book about my

need to figure out what the differences between being alive and living. what i'm not. i finished the book and got to the end of it and then i started looking at it and going oh, this is what in-q-tel within my own life. my parents have both passed away. i thought i was over it. i'd written four different books to deal with it. when i got to the end i was like it was the point of dealing with the death of a parent and the point of needy and selfishly looking and saying when you go to that, all of us have moments where in a hole and it may be, maybe from abuse, somewhat betrayed us, a loss of a loved one but we're in that hole. you've got to climb out of it. and "the escape artist" was my way out of it. harry houdini was so obsessed with death that he gave his family and friends passports, code words so they would know if they came back to life in a séance they would know truly

then. here is your codeword, your codewords as library. if you come back and say as i know it's my friend steve. harry houdini is assessed with his mothers death, could never get over it but the secret word he supposedly gave to his own mother before she died was this word, forgive. forgive the most powerful one the most powerful words in the english language. or all of us were in the diesels whatever brings you in it when you're in that hole and you want to escape, you want to be "the escape artist", you have used harry houdini greatest magic trick of all. that's where "the escape artist" came from. this is what i'm doing with myself. this is my need. that's why this book exists. >> host: you've written a dozen fiction books. where's the creativity coming from? >> guest: for me i know one thing at the 20s of doing this. i'm not that special. i just know it i love something, there's got to be other people out there who like it just as

much. that's what happened with "the escape artist." i went for the uso -- to go into characteristic i was honored to go over there and do it. it was amazing but when i got there i heard about told air force base. we all know dover even if he did know the name you know those flag covered coffins that come off the planes. we all recognize those pictures and at which is like this place will be incredible to write about. it's interesting so many of the people. when i got there i realized that i thought it would be a transaction. like writing about the white house or the capitol, i'm going to go in, they were telling the secrets that come out of aye book. but when i got to dover it was very different. i was humbled by what i saw. what i saw was you would have the men and women who work on the bodies will spend 12 hours rewiring someone's job, smoothing it over with clay so that the family can get one last good look at their son. or rebuilding someone's hand

from scratch because a mother doesn't want to hold my sons and one last time. i don't care what your politics are. this is a country where we are starting for heroes, whatever site you want. i realized these are our heroes. these men and women to work on our fallen troops of the best of the best of us were get the best of the best of us. i've got to write about this. the creativity or me came right from that moment just me going this is spectacular, i've got to write about this place. for the story side, i take my plot alleges given to the people who work there. indicates that "the escape artist" i went to one of the top morticians and got to meet a lot of them and i would ask the office in question. i want to do a a headnote in settlement body. can you put a tattoo on someone? have have you ever seen someone try and pass a note? that was the plot. that's all i had. they said, this is to come if you eat a note and on a plane

that's going down, your plane is about to crash and you eat a note, that the liquid in your stomach will actually protect that note upon the crash. i said that the collective. they say it's not an idea. it really happens. what are you talking a? i said no, it didn't. truly opened up someone's stomach when the end of note inside. it wouldn't have with the court said. i love that idea that in that moment as the plane is going down that person is doing what we all do. there is someone who is loved and wants to be loved and in reaching out and saying please come here my message. i love that idea that you could be heard. i took, i cut the plotkin is "the escape artist." chapter one as our hero and he opens up the body of a woman who knows when she was a little. she's no soldier, young soldier. he opens up her body. i secret note inside. the notes of something far more mysteries. it's as you were right.

he probably. he realizes this woman on the table is not nola brown. she actually alive. she's on the run. she's "the escape artist" and that's chapter one. i just ruined chapter 140 but i realized me the real plot and the real idea for it comes from trying to pick up those other characters and making sure i can fill us in. that's right start. >> host: it's obvious from reading your books you take real-life locations, we like the fence and then weave them into fiction. >> guest: listen, at the point i just told you kept one. i could start the book. i've been asked of it at the 20th. i can build the boat while i'm sailing. i have this kind of literary midlife crisis and my crisis was, after 20s of doing this you can do the same thing. i know what i'm doing. figure it out i'll figure it out as i go. or you can stop and have a moment of humility and safe how do i get better? that's what i was obsessed with.

how do i get better? i took this hard look at all the fiction books i've written and i said which is the best one? i want them all to be the best but they can be. which truly with the best ones? when i i identified three different ones, these to your the best and what did have in common? i character. we all know whether it's in the books that were written about magical people but the reason we love harry potter is because we love harry, we love them as people. i realize don't start this book and you can start computer plotkin secret note in the body but don't start this intel you have nola, the woman on the table. like you just said i was at a base in virginia and not far from here and they took me around, giving me a tour and what i saw was an army base but it was amusing. they had all these paintings on the wall. i was like why does the u.s. military have all this art?

they had painted by adolf hitler, all the stuff illiterate people. since world war i the u.s. army has had an actual painter on staff, an artist in residence who paints disasters as they happen. unlike weight imminent. they said whether it's storming the beach at nobody can vietnam, 9/11. you're telling me that it's a going is racing with guns blazing weave that someone who's racing in with nothing but paintbrushes in the pockets? i've got to meet the person. i want to meet him. they said to me, you mean you want to meet her. i was like oh, of course, a woman. right there my character nola brown was born. i love people have compared to the car with the dragon tattoo. i'll take the compliment but that character was born. the character races into disaster is because she's running from her own and that's what the book started taking off for me is finding that character, your first book "the tenth justice" and was at the

most difficult for you traffic no. the most difficult was before that. i wrote a book by first book ever wrote was a book that it out of college and it quickly got me 24 rejection letters. there were 20 publishers at the time. i got 24 rejection letters which means some people writing twice to make sure i got the point. i loved the process. i fell in love with the process. the book was kind of a love letter to write. it was me pouring myself out there but what was so hard about was that rejection, 24 rejections was a beating. when "the tenth justice" came, from the fact it even got published was a thrill to me. that was like catnip. i couldn't wait to get to every single page. i was editing. i could've edited the book for ten years because i'm so excited for the world to see. the first one is not a hard one. the second when everyone has seen and after you been out there and got your bad reviews, that's the hard one. >> host: you've had a few bad

reviews? >> guest: i do. i love my bad reviews. my thing is the inherent flaw in any critic is that they are human. that's it. i care who you are how smart you think you are. that's the plot. i remember that "the tenth justice" i was 27 when when it came out and make the bestseller list. i didn't even know what the bestseller list was at that point in time. at the point the bestseller list, take my self, through tha fax machine. i remember watching in the facts machine came through and it was clicking to through an assaultn the bestseller list and at that moment i turned to my wife, and this was weak won the book itself. week one estimate is a mother. i turned my wife and report said the book is great. great reviews. we made the best source for turned about and i said backlash begin. right after that, truly the next week entertainment weekly gave me a d+ on the same exact book.

i was like, i had to embrace it. i've embraced my bad reviews. i infected a whole video showcasing them because i was like we all take our greetings. you got to take a publicly. >> host: let me read one of them. brads writing is both good and original. however what is good is not original and what his original is not good tragic that when, nelson is different. nelson, fast that even a good that reveal much, much worse reviews in that. i'm born on april 1. i'm an april fools kid, and my wife for my 40th birthday reached out to all my other friends and she said want you to write the worst review of bread you could write and so my friend nelson demille and scott scott w and david baldacci, they wrote ruthless ruthless reviews. they were spectacular. i think like david, i like brads books. i use them all the time as toilet paper. i was like, that's so creative.

it was great. in the best part of that story is so it got picked up in the "l.a. times" that the whole fake post about it and my agent called me early in the morning that morning, my birthday and said did you see what happened? i said yeah. i said it was a funny practical joke and she said i thought it was regional. your agent. what you mean you thought it was real? that was i love those. >> host: david baldacci is a lincoln of crappy fiction tragic that was a good one. that's the thing is you give writers a chance, bill show up the creek and especially after the providers expand. >> host: do you ever have writers block? >> guest: i have days, i don't know what writers block is in terms of like if it's like specify thing in the dsm but have days that don't go as well as others, of course. days where i sit there and i just go it's not coming today. other days flying completely. on those days the first thing i

do is i get up and leave where i'm sitting if i'm really stuck. if the phone for a living when you're in the shower come here to go in the shower. make the phone ring. i may just walk around the block of it in the car and drive but the one thing nobody is i won't give up on it. i will sit in that seat even atf that seat is around the block until i get it because it's only way to write is you got to write it. writing a novel is like building a sand castle. first that you like can you put down that one grain of sand you get nothing. second day, nothing. you do it every year. you write a page a day every year you have a book that's the key to doing it is you have to sit and do it. >> host: let's turn from fiction to nonfiction. this is a letter that outgoing president george herbert walker bush left in the oval office to the incoming president bill clinton. it's a letter he gave you, dear bill, when i walked into the office just don't i felt the

same sense of wonder and respect that i felt for mac use go. i know that you will feel that, too. i wish you great happiness here. i never felt the loneliness some presidents have described. there will be very tough times,, maybe even more difficult by criticism. you may not think is fair. i'm not very good to give advice but just to let the critics discourage you push you off course. you will be our president when you read this note. i wish you well. i wish your family will. your success that is our country success and i'm rooting hard for you. good luck, george. >> guest: here's what happened. i many years ago got a fan letter from the greatest handler i forgot from president george h. w. bush writing as a stranger. i thought it was completely thick. also convince the state because i used to one of speaking my first job was here in washington and i used to work at the senate judiciary committee. i was an intern. we used to take the senators and

signing machine and station from the senate judiciary committee and i would write to all my friends until they were being deported. i live in miami. that works, right? they believe it. i thought this is a mistake because my friends playing a joke on me, signed george. i thought it was so fake that he called the president's the pren houston and i said someone on staff as for a signed copy. i don't who it was. they said you got the presidents letter. it was really him? yes, dope, it was in there i got to meet president bush and mrs. bush and we just became different. we just had a really fun time together. i told president bush at the time i was researching a book on former presidents and the said i just, i loved when admitted. response affected leg dimensions of board he was. how board are you you just writing letters to novelists? i just thought and is so amazing to me that you are the most powerful man in the world one day at the next day you to stop at red lights like the rest of

us. imagine that someone told you you have peaked for everything a dent in the world after this moment, after today would be downhill. it's not going to be as good as it was today. that's what it's like to be a former president. i was shocked by that just what it does to your psyche. i said i'd love to see what your life is like. he and just al-qaeda said why did you come to houston for the week and you'll hang out with us for the week. gave the unprecedented access. we had a great time together and when i started writing the book, it became "the book of fate" which is my first book about this former president but others working on another book after that and it was, i heard this story about these letters that ronald reagan when he left the oval office had left a secret letter for george h. w. bush. said don't let the turkeys get you down. he put it in the oval office desk and would bush left he left a letter for clinton. when clinton left he left one for w, obama, trump, the greatest tradition of the

presidency that is still sugar or at that point was a significant i said could you hide secret messages in those letters? that's what i asked. he was helped with different books. even the secret service would know some of his things he's seen. i open my e-mail and it said the president wants you to have this. this is like a decade ago. i checked the attachment and is that u just read read. it was a secret document for bill clinton. my first thought was, oh my gosh, the secret code. a check to see if pre-mason code, check to see the first letter of february spelled-out i hate you build. i was checking everything at that moment in time he should've hated bill clinton. no clinton just beat him. he should've hated him and he at what you just read, the most generous letters. your successes are our country's success. of course was just this incredibly humble thing he put on paper. his biographer was mad because why did you get that letter?

why did you give it to brad meltzer? i still to this day don't know why he gave it to me. but he gave it can in all those years ago and i love the fact we got them were the first ones to bring it out and another to the one. >> host: did you ask him that? >> guest: i never asked if i just though, i felt like it would be rude to say why did you give it to me, sir? i just had the thing about george bush would say which was thank you. i always thanked him for his kindness to me was beyond what is, what was even normal. mrs. bush, we just had this wonderful relationship. mrs. bush and i what is it about her she reminded my mom and my mom was one of those people who she didn't care if you were the king of england or you were the person was sweeping the floor. if you do not something interesting to see, if he didn't have anything funny to say, get out of my face. she was in the press. she didn't care what your title was or how much money made. get away from me. interesting or not, let's talk.

she didn't care where you were on the social ladder and a love that about her. we always sit together and laugh. he invited me, at one point they invited me to a private lunch at the white house when w was president. it wasn't in the big open area or even what state dinner. it was the private dining room upstairs and residents. when you go there, it's a serious thing. you don't just take your seat. this like ten, 15 people in the whole room. they tell you exactly where you're going to sit. there is a little that says mr. meltzer that is a beautiful engraving of the white house, and my first thought was, i'm totally stealing my court addressed it in my cart and mrs, barbara bush leans over and says you know, brad, all the novels when the chemical they all want to steal their cards. unlike i know, all those novices. look, ruth bader ginsburg and the crowd by card. she can't receive my card, but she knew that was fun and we had

a great time, when was the last time you saw president bush? >> guest: i saw in just weeks ago actually. i was up in kennebunkport doing the literacy event to honor mrs. i got to have, they told when i got there that he was going to be probably asleep and that he was sleeping a lot at that time. we all kind of new it was a matter of time but they said yes moments of clarity. i can our day he will be totally clear. we had one of those moments and i got to thinking and i got to say goodbye. this was literally just maybe a month or two ago. we all knew what was coming, but it was nothing like the kindness at a think if you did a search on all the thing sediment said about him now that he is asking look at them at times the word decency is mentioned. i think part of it is because of course that's who he was and is

a part of it is because as a country that's what we did and we miss. i don't care what your politics are, i look at what side of the aisle you are on, we are not as a coulter talking to each other decently anymore. anyone whose opposite of your political opinion you hate. it's us versus them. they did this, they did that. whatever side you're on, and i personally am tired and it's time to get back to weep. george bush may he rest in peace was very good at we. >> host: who was responsible for that town? >> guest: i think he's responsible. barbara bush -- >> host: the negative don't try to it starts at the top. i always say people always like the one to blame the media. they say the media does this, the media doesn't that. the beauty put this story on but if we don't watch them as a culture as a viewer, if we say no, we don't want to, the media will stop if you can't force the people that there has been appetite. it's easy to point and say it's the president, it's the

democrats, it's the media, , its the viewer out there, it's facebook. we went everything excepting the one thing we should always do, the only way the world has ever change is gandhi when a research them, taught me to stop a change for the change in yourself. in everything a person took a moment and look at themselves and said how do i make the world a better place, i'm to stop forwarding nonsense that makes me mad. i'm going to stop saying the word them when i'm angry down going to stop writing mean things on twitter. the world will change. the question is, do we have someone who can lead us and show us that's the answer? >> host: be sure to follow us on facebook and also on twitter @booktv. three hours with brad meltzer. you've written a dozen plus books? >> guest: i've written 12 thrillers, 16 16 kids books, nonfiction, comic books, and some really funny limericks and birthday cards. that's the whole gamut trend will be talking all of it.

we will take your comments on facebook and you can send us an e-mail booktv c-span.org. let's talk about "the book of fate." ron boyle who i thought dies at the beginning of the book but doesn't. >> guest: this, "the book of fate" was a book was writing about a former president and the written about the white house before. this is probably my favorite chapter one come what might have checked the ones i've ever written. the chapter what opens up at the nascar race of all places. our hero is that body person to the president of the present has one. trump's just let oval office. and bunched up on had a bunch voted but actually there, because who and the present what he needs him if he needs chapstick and he's got chapstick. if he's got a headache, i've got to add the. if you need a pen to sign that

babies for a come here's that dan and here's the baby. you are right there with the president, the first person that use history as at there's been made. i love that job. the person who has the job i studied in all, all of them going back to president bush's and interviewed all of them. every single one i could find, and they had one thing in common. they all went on to greatness. the with all to incredible things. they had great jobs, they were right there with the president. my friend chris, what are the top -- at starbucks, others, i saw my friend tommy works in financial broker that these incredible jobs. this is a start of your life and i love that job. so what happens is in chapter one wes is like i'm the president guy, i'm going to do. everything will go great. a crazy person pulls out a a gn at this nascar race with the president is going to announce the start of the race and he goes to shoot the president and

he shoots the president chief of staff, ron boyle, the action. he hits ron boyle and another bullet hit our hero right in the face. in that moment all of his dreams die. what you find out at the end -- at the end of chapter one, ron boyle dies but he comes back to life. what you see in chapter two is a decade later, and wes is not turned out great. if giant scores across his face from that day. the president at that moment actually grabbed in trying to look and dodge the bullet and had this for you look like a coward. a still picture stuff that he just looked like a coward and if i i thought this guy who they called leland the line was actually a coward cowardly lion. his presidency takes a moment. now he's in expressing, former president and life is terrible and his point and no one cares about you anymore and nobody, you're not on the news anymore and that's what it's like to be

after the white house. he is backstage to one of the president high part speeches and this is a poor nest they get an out the backdrop walking backstage is ron boyle, a man who died a decade earlier. wes stopped and goes what the hell is going on? that's a dead man. he's a light. what happened? in finding out and what happened to run ball, i just went chapter went into "the book of fate" but of finance what happened is transported to try to come back to his own life -- wes' to try to come back if you got his own life. it was president bush to help me on the research you see in that book is all based on my time at president bush's office. down to the lip of his office is accused of office and was all the details i just love to link "the book of fate" is so you can see what life is like. >> host: spoiler alert, what happened? >> guest: i don't want to ruin the ending. you'll see you what happened with ron boyle.

i won't ruin that the one of my favorite things in the book is -- ruin this -- it hinges on two things. the person who kills in the sky collates the freemasons and says, if you look, there are eight signers of the declaration of independence were freemasons and nine cents of u.s. constitution. 14 different times freemasons have been present and have taken the white house. i love dealing with the secrets of the freemasons in that book. one of the other things i put in there is the secret code that thomas jefferson used use and he was president used the secret code when he was president so people couldn't see what he's talking about. he ranked all of his staffers. he would use secret code sununu what he really thought of those men whether they were trustworthy or not. i love that, the i did the president issued secret corporate that's why of president bush and president clinton, having come up to his office and home of researching the book was great about that

book is unaware of its people think freemasons are kind to take over the world comes stealing your carpet -- car. the best thing that happen out of that book is the head of the history channel red "the book of fate" and he said to me, i love the secret codes thomas jefferson was using a love of the freemasons secrets you have. we want to do a tv show based on those books. that's how we got the code of which was her first television show on the air. at the time it was the time of da vinci code. the truth was there capitalizing on the level of freemasonry and all that stuff. i said why do want to just rip off dan brown? he did his thing, it's wonderful to why just take that? they said what would you do? i said why do we do this instead? in the 1700s when the first piece of the white house was put down, it was put down in a freemasons ceremony.

all the freemasons gathered can put in the first piece of the white house and 24 hours later that first piece of the white house went missing. no windows to this moment where the cornerstone of the white house actually is. everyone from harry truman to barbara bush went searching for a know it is been able to find it to this day. why do we do episode we try to find that? they would like with like that. we'd like to in this fictional world, you can do these nonfiction things that's when we started the show decoded. can you get nine more those? i got lots of them. i've never written a book they gave me a tv show but with "the book of fate" did. >> host: i want to give full credit to bent o'connell because his taken a selection of the fiction authors, read them and provide us with questions for what it thinks he's asking for, one of our producers at c-span, the climax of the inner circle taking place at the national archives a facility was built under grant in the cabins come how of these facilities of the national archives action operate or be able to visit any of them? >> guest: this is my favorite.

again, this scene, said national archives those of us should know is one of the great places in washington, d.c. and it has declaration of independence, u.s. constitution you can go and see the magna carta thanks to david gergen sector incredible, incredible things. anyone can walk in and see those things. the archivist of the trend is one of those incredibly people who runs an incredible place. what they taught me when i was there is it's not, there's so much stuff that they can't put in one building. so there are hidden case all across the country that house our documents. why case? not because bruce wayne did in batman but it's because the temperature down in a cave can make sure it's much cheaper to keep the collect up and have her condition. we have these caves across the

u.s. they are in st. louis, all over the place, and they let me go see them. i without there. at this point, i forget, there's not one or two. there are many and there are ones for the library of congress. there is one set of old films, old recordings, military documents. the one i went to, it was a place called iron mountain and iron mountain is this incredible underground, truly a mountain that they carved out of the mountain built underground and went downward. when you get there, army records other, navy, air force, marines marines, national archives. as you're walking through these case each kind of like cutaway we think you'll see the batmobile, you are literally walking to nuc the army logo and see the navy graduate like here's the pentagon. in fact, down there is some of the great pictures of marilyn monroe photos from the moon. they are all down there because they keep their stuffed under to protect all these which a photograph. our history is undergoing.

it's an amazing place and it at the end is like i have to write about this. what you see down there, i won't ruin the final scene of what you see down there was absolutely real how did you come up with beecher white tracer he's a hero of this book. beecher came -- backup. a few years ago i got a call from the department of homeland security asked me to come in and brainstorm different ways that cares could attack the united states. my first thought was if they are calling me, we have bigger problems than anybody think. if you think the country is creepy now, i like their calling fiction writers. i was honored to do it. they called my friend brad thor. they called these producers and directors and they would have us with a secret service agent and a chemistry it would give us a topic like washington, d.c. they would say destroyed. i would come up with my we destroyed. the secret service agent i was with would say no, here's a better way to security. the chemist would say no, let's use this chemical instead you

want to spend less quickly in there and do more damage. we would destroy a place like washington in a matter of an hour. you don't go home feeling good. you go home terrified because you realize how easy it is to kill us. but on its do it. love doing to get what i was bill was whiny? why did they call me of all people? i could call anybody, but what would writer? i traced it back through history to a man named george washington, and george washington i found out had his own secret literally i mean, it's crazy to me it still happens but he had his own secret group come his own secret spy ring those made up of regular ordinary people. he had all these military people but i do a new who they were so if you want to know what's going on, follow them. and that's in the book. what i realized is no one looks twice. the reason why washington addicted and sort it because no one looks twice as an ordinary person to ice and that's a good idea. i went to my friend at homeland security and said we would typy

defendant the george washington spy ring still exist to this very day? he said to me, what makes you think it doesn't? i i said that's a good idea fora book. beecher white was born right there. what if you have this picture was an archivist who loves history who loves diving in the history and he finds out that george washington's spy ring still exist to this very day,, that their house in the national archives, housed in the repository of her great history in beecher white was born. he was born by my time with amazing people at the national archives and he's born truthfully out of my real nerdy side produced the first character i wrote where i was really i don't think i'm a better writer over these years but what it and is on the more honest writer unless the frayed. in the beginning easily in an interview i did in the first five years as a writer can even ten years as writer, it is at how things going everything is great, i love this book. happy to be. we'll take it one day at a a t. that's what it did.

i was so terrified of complaining. i just thought i'm so lucky and blessed to have this job or talk to imaginary people. how can i possibly bitch and moan about and complete? i just wasn't honest about myself and find a set of going to put myself in his books, another sister, my love all things that are nerdy in beecher, that's his psychic it was me. that's where i i built beechert of it and i come it was my first attempt to find an alter ego, we'll get to calls in a moment. give us your biography born in brooklyn, griffin florida. >> guest: my dad lost his a job when he was 39. he had no money. at $1200 to his name. start over from scratch. with no job comfortably salute that we worried about our own safety at that point, juicing what are we going to do? he moved us to florida and said will have the do over of life. when i got to florida vacate a fake address sica go to the

local wealthy public school. it's changed my life. from there i heard of this great thing called college. i didn't even know, i said i don't know i'm going to get their compatible with the s.a.t. is but if you all are taking it i will take it and i became the first time i family go to a four-year college. i went to michigan, columbia law school and got a job working for a man named eliseo is that i'm going to be a mentor, come to boston. the we can get to boston he left the job and i thought i wrecked my life. while i was there, what anyone does in most would think we direct our lives, i said i'm going to write a novel. i wrote my first novel but i fell in love with the process. that was the big win for me to run with to katie in new york. good afternoon. >> caller: good afternoon. i first want to say thank you to booktv because this is such an interesting conversation, you

know. i think it's transcending just nonfiction but i did want to mention that i thought it was interesting, you know, i love decoded. i found interesting you said h. w. bush sent you that letter after you asked about the ability of one president to send a message to another, especially because of his association with the cia, with five skull and bones. i was wondering if you look at it to that kind of a lens that officially due to your history of what you had written, you know, , due to conspiracy and tt kind of ability of secret things going on, like while an untrained eye can't necessarily recognize the signs that something tragic trust me, you have no idea how paranoid ion. the presented as i looked at every school and bones quote, freemasons code, and every code

i could find that when the guy who ran the cia was in skull and bones, was the president can singe a letter when you say guiding good secrets? you pay attention to the letter. you have to pay attention to the letter. but sometimes a duck is just a duck. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes someone who writes the generous letter is just think the most generous man. but all that paranoid is exactly what sold the books. it fuels all. >> host: jim from newport kentucky. good afternoon. >> caller: i wanted to ask brad what he is currently reading. fiction or nonfiction, what books you might be reading and what is favorite novelist is and also thank him. as i was going to get on read his latest book, "the escape artist." to tell you i read it in two sittings it was so good. i did want to put it down. i was eating salted pins come so good. i do want to put down. i want to find out what was

going to happen next. i plan to read some of the stuff but i want to know what d.c. reading right now as far as novels and nonfiction? >> guest: thank you. i love before. five bucks is in the mail to you for saying "the escape artist" so awesome. my favorite author i just can't like him sometimes it's the guy named brad meltzer sunset i just read his books. i watched his television shows, sit anywhere and go all, you have done it again. obviously that's a joke. my wife is only for isotope going why you say stuff like that? the real answer is i come it's funny, i read everything. i read every genre from young adult to thrillers. when i grew up it was agatha christie and judy blume, the first mr. writer, i still think she is grand dame down to, starting with john grisham and scott throw when i started out,

let me ask you button of the book, the murder at the vicarage traded the first mystery that i ever read. i remember picking up agatha christie's murder at the vicarage and to this day do not know what the vicarage is. i do not want to know. don't tell me. don't call and tell me. i don't want to know but i remember when is reading it i was not ten years old and a member getting into that book and there on the page was a dead body. i remember being shocked by that. in that moment i asked myself that one question i've been asking myself for over 20 years now. whodunit? changed my life. that idea there's this dead body and whodunit? but when it comes to thrills today i don't read many thrillers because it's like lia mechanic and a rental car. i'm not enjoying the ride i'm just trying to figure which wrong with it. i will guess the in any way. i wish is watching a movie with my wife and it's a i got it ten

minutes later, i know who the killer is. she said do not tell me. else anything. then the movie ends and she's a write? my way was better. so i can't help rewrite those. i do think jillian plant is one of the great thriller writers today and, of course, i love my friend to do this, whether it's david baldacci or brad thor, so many friends out there, james rollins but i will say that for me i read a ton of nonfiction because of the george washington book we are working on which i'm sure will talk about sin but the next book is about the secret plot to kill george washington. i've been reading tons of revolutionary biographies and biographies of george washington. the news kids book is i am billie jean king. that tends to be what my reading goes is kind of whatever hero and whatever nonfiction person

i'm obsessed with. amazingly, that's where also get the thrill. reading the george washington the fact that he will come while researching a childress book called i am george washington, i find out he is right in invisible ink and used to write between the lines of letters and that's we get the phrase read between the lines. i wrote in the guestbook i was like we had to put that in there and they would like you can put into. i said it's so cool to read the book with my son and he's like wait, he's like washington road invisible ink? that so cool. i know. isn't that cool? i take his nonfiction ideas from the door books and the use them in the kids books we do. >> host: you are a prolific tweeter. >> guest: i am. yes, i am on twitter all the time. not, it is the one distraction i take for myself during the day. my twitter account is up there. >> host: a a couple tweets from sylvia says what is one subject

you've not written about that you love to put on paper even if just for yourself or for your family? >> guest: these people on twitter know me. they get in my brain. i think when don't want to write about my mom and dad. that's the one i want to write about. >> host: what were they like? >> guest: so my mother, they both past week of may they rest in peace. my mom, when borders were still abound, and this, the head of sales said guess where your books sell better than anywhere else? iberville, new york city, 8 million people in one place? no. washington, d.c.? no. the number one place for my books sold was the boca raton florida borders on my from the furniture store where my mother used to work. my mother can single-handedly beat 8 million new yorkers. like that with her power. my dad was no different. my dad used to go into the local barnes & noble, books and books

and he would be like, where's brad meltzer is new book? he's my favorite author entire world. i'm his biggest sin. they like, mr. meltzer, we know future son. we know. our marketing plan when a sort of the sample. we will unleash these two people, my mother and father come on the planet and it will do the job. bless them they did. wendy died, i found come clean at their apartment there were stacks of books in the closet. they bought them all. i combined them like our numbers of florida have skyrocketed because my parents were secretly by the picking up a lot of money but they were still buying those books. i would love to write about them. the stories i get it about them, the stories are not in the obituaries but with reduced those story, they're not about their ability to sell books. it's about their love for me. everything i am today my sense of humor, anything i am is about that love that my parents always

showered only. >> host: another tweet from kathy anderson. first, when will receive no again? and second when will we see a brad meltzer movie? >> guest: first, this sequel to "the escape artist" is what i'm working on right now. that is the next book that is coming. we'll talk about the other books that are coming but nola is coming back. read "the escape artist." it's just out in paperback so perfect timing for the holidays. the second question was movie. we are working on that, too. not for long as that which we were about the next tv project that we are doing is our i am books. what a pbs tv show. let's talk about the firmament. a number of years ago i would start of my own kids looking at reality tv show stars and people are famous for being famous, and loudmouth athletes. i thought i had so many better use for the period we started with "i am amelia earhart" and

"i am abraham lincoln. we start with the because if i tell my daughter and your efforts across the atlantic ocean she's like big deal, everyone flies across the atlantic these days. what if i tell my daughter that any of their heart, this is true, when she was seven, she built a homemade roller coaster in her backyard and she came flying down the side went flying through the air as a seven-year-old. my daughter is like that's interesting. we start with i am an merely their heart that were we done m rosa parks, jackie robinson. i was like us-40 request here's i am jackie robinson. this is what a real athlete here looks like. it's not about scoring points because of making change in peoples lives. and we did i am lucille ball because of one of my duct have a female entertainment here. was it just a misleading than an party. >> host: let's do one little tease. you and barbara bush. give the audience kind of --

>> guest: barbara bush and i our favorite scene is the lucy chocolate conveyor belt scene where she's eating all the chocolates. i won't give it away but if you had that scene in your head just get ready. i'll say that. and we did i am helen keller wear when she goes blind we put the page is black in the book and they say this is, my name is helen. feel this dot scope this is my neighbor what your name? i was by 17 your closest eyes and feel the document of the book is for five and ten year olds watching in trying to see through some else's eyes. the best thing about can do, right? something amazing happened as donald trump and hillary clinton were being each others heads in the election two years ago in november. two of our books took up any others. our i am george washington and i'm martin luther king, jr. what was amazing about it is a was a democrat or republican thing. it was that parent and grand

prince of the tired of turning on the tv and seeing politicians and what it wanted to show the kids were leaders. we all know there's huge difference between a politician and a leader. they're using our books to fight back. during the grandkids and kids these books book sensing here'a real american leader looks like. we've done gandhi and we done harriet tubman. the news books we just did is neil armstrong. because look at where the world is today. neil armstrong, again like george h. w. bush, never used the word. he used to use the word we get we did this. we accomplish this. he was say that about the space program turkey would say that come he wasn't talk much as the astronauts. heman the scientist, the people with the mathematicians, the people who so to spacesuit together. right now as a culture we favor those who, whether on twitter

facebook renewal else are good at getting attention for themselves. they say look at me, look at me. i'm tired of that. i want to go back to the times of neil armstrong. remember when humility was a great american value? it should be again. it's no surprise that the two big biographies that you were neil armstrong and mr. rogers. people who were humble, the great thing. i want to teach my kids to be humble again. house want to teach my kids about the value of hard work, nothing. neil armstrong when use a little kid his victory was to climb a silver maple tree in his backyard. when you climb a tree it's like the apostle. you have to grab this break in the net branch and shimmy up that way. you have to engineer, the out and engineer a a solution. one day neil armstrong as the boy, 11, climb this maple tree and he grabs a dead branch and the branch snaps and he falls to the ground. gets the wind knocked out of

him. is his to confront its uncritical get mom. the most important thing he does in the mode where i read i am neil armstrong and what i wrote for my kid and most important thing he does he gets back up again. he becomes of course come he starts saving money to get his pilots license. he wants to buy toy clinton real planes. he is so john, the force drivers license. in becomes a test pilot. of course becomes an astronaut. he takes that greatly for all mankind but the lesson the book in i am neil armstrong is that you don't get to take all those thousands of that giant leap into get those thousands of smaller steps before it. that's the lesson we need to teach our kids, being humble and hard-working and that's what we need to celebrate. that's what this entire i am series is about. we of course are doing i am billie jean king, sonia sotomayor, our first latino here just cannot. you armstrong just cannot. we are doing and i am billie

jean king in february. >> host: you have three children what other ages? >> guest: from 17 catechin. the middle one is 13. the other reasons for these books. they gave me an entire whole line to write about because i felt like i wanted to -- we all have legacy and i love the fiction books. that's the house i felt with my own hands. but for me my greatest legacy ii know forever will not be about writing. it will be my children. i wanted them to have heroes they could look up to special in today's times where we are starting for heroes. again what of your politics are, we're starving for them. we need better heroes right now. but they are due. they are there. you didn't like them and teach your kid to. and i love that people take our eye and books and the build libraries the real heroes of the kids and grandkids, nieces and nephews. i love this holiday season, i i should say this past solomon all

these people say dear brad, the mantra that is conducive to freshen my daughter didn't go as a princess come thanks to your books she went as amelia earhart. they went as albert einstein. they went as rosa parks. even the most narcissistic moment i can never anticipate that i'm going to be responsible for someone's halloween costume but thanks for amazing artist, it's kids fall in love with his characters he is the superstar of the show and has a style that's like peanuts meets charlie brown bunny teens and charlie brown meets calvin and hobbes put his own to different style. kids love it and if you want your kid to be off the device and the phones come with a given something better to look at and thanks to chris we were able to do that. >> host: let's go to virginia. you're on the air with rhett rat melzer. good afternoon. >> caller: good afternoon. i'd like to share a tweet which

has very important information mr. meltzer pickett said, related to it people except in the media and also the statement about being the change in the world as gandhi said, and also want to praise c-span for always allowing all points of view to come forth with truth and facts. so i think to share between that relates to what i would have proclaimed on december 12 that says i love a good day, temp down the chaos and have people be more reflective between thanksgiving and christmas. exactly who they are and what they're doing and this country, taking personal responsibility and bring forth solutions that will benefit everyone. tragic thank you. listen, we need i love america everyday. we don't need just a day for that. that's our responsibility. be kind to each other in showing generosity. that shouldn't be an amazing thing. that should be called being a

human being and to feel like we kind of lost sight of that. i feel like if if you going onr social media and your muting people who disagrees with you, you would think no favors to yourself. you're just living in a vacuum. you need to go out and follow people you don't like. see what they're seeing can see with their mad at the philly without of an argument is to look through someone else's eyes and try to their perspective on it. anyone you hate anyone on the other side you hate cotrustee, they hate you just as much but you're a nice person so maybe just maybe i. >> host: is maybe just maybe it's you. maybe just maybe you could take a look at yourself and find some humanity there. there is nothing in the world, every sick person you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. >> host: let me go back to him on your favorite books, are you there god, it's me margaret. >> guest: the best. judy blume, that was the first, my first love of books told our

comic books. that's one of them to read but a real books after, , it was judih and i found first. are you there god, it's me, margaret, in the book milliners there's a character named five was named after fourth-grade character. i've been hiding people of references in my books for use. the character answers the phone, are you there, god, it's me, robert. i've read the book because i was obsessed with girls and i thought it was a man until they figure out girls. as like she's writing about the subject i know nothing about. she writes about young people in a way that doesn't feel like it's an older person writing about young people so she's always been one of my two literary heroes. i'm a you told the "washington post" the following quote from history to me is a giant game of telephone. our job is to find the first whisper.

people want to see conspiracies but the scarce story of all is the true story. >> guest: yeah. this is right for the next book is going. again, look anything today. it's funny, i don't know -- you have date of that? >> host: 2013. >> guest: i said that in 2013 have no idea, that's like a pre-social media quote come have no idea where we are now it seems pretty pulled back into safe history is a game of telephone now it seems so obvious. of course it is. look every single day, were living in a world is watching just one station that has your point of view, , living in a different world than the one -- you were doing no favors for yourself if you just watch one. that game of telephone just goes even fast with social media. that fax, bad news, misinformation politics as we tweet to put it up there like wildfire. but i still believe the scariest

story ever is the true story. it's what led me about a decade ago i found out about a plot to kill george washington. i found some and it's like this is a real story? there's a secret plot to kill george washington? i went looking for it and that's what the next book is going to be because of scared me. what if we lost? george washington at the time found out about the plot turkey gathered of those responsible for trying to kill them, , took one of the ringleaders and hung him in front of 20,000 with the largest execution at the point in north american history, and george washington brought the hammer down figures like do not mess with me come on george washington. i'm going to be on money one day. he was not messing around and unloved this story. the next book of doing that comes out, comes out in just come in a month is "the first conspiracy" ." it is completely nonfiction get my first adult book that's

nonfiction called "the first conspiracy", the secret plot to kill george washington. >> host: who was the ringleader traffic you will see what is but one of them is the governor of new york, the myth of new, the ringleader who young was another guy is one of his top guards at the time. i do want to ruin anything about it but this book come he's one who did the work on a tv show. "the first conspiracy" when you read is so scary because you realize how close we were to losing, not just losing the will to losing george washington and, of course, what is america if we lose george washington? i found that sort interested i've got to do it. so for anyone out there looking for the great holiday thing, if need a present for anyone out there, the i am books i love and also the first conspiracy of the ones that will be the next books become a. >> host: back to your phone calls. somerset new jersey. welcome to the conversation. >> caller: good afternoon. i was curious to know what brad

thinks of an article i read recently with the chinese government is going to survey all virtually every citizen in the country and then rate their behavior. with such -- first welcome what does he think about that and what such a circumstance factor any into any sort of book you may one day right? >> guest: tim, i never heard that story. i love that story. that's a crazy story, right? because that's all we are right now is we're walking around little bits of data. i could sit at the start of this, we are not that special. we all think we are but we all kind of act and love and care and have hopes and dreams, all of us. even the ones you don't like him you still do. the idea you can watch a pattern of behavior can you just proved a point the scary story you can tell is the real one. that's a a terrifying idea. i'm almost mad at you right now for forcing it on c-span because now

i can't steal it and use my phone. i'm going to look into the story. story. that's a good story. >> host: from tennessee, jeff, you are next. that afternoon. >> caller: brad, , a great opportunity to talk with you. i would want to thank c-span for having this opportunity and i'm a a real big fan as i said. my question is, are you going to be doing any more "decoded"? i've seen just about everything you've done and really looking forward to hoping your answer will be yes. >> guest: of you for asking. asking can we do this tv show -- the actual title is called brad meltzer is decoded. i sit in my life, honey, what are we having for brad meltzer dinner tonight? she was like, go sleep on brad meltzer is couch. ..

if you love decoded can, the first conspiracy is in decoded and you want to know, you should join our invisible army. we have group through my web site, the invisible army, and actually have membership cards. that's how nerdy we are. a membership card. had benefits. secret handshakes. >> what are the benefits. >> guest: you have to become a member brought -- but i brought this card for you. if you want a card, in fact they

just announced you just have to -- you order the first conspiracy, and you -- on my twitter account you'll see -- hit he link, upload the image you preordered and we'll send you a card and you below be part of the invisible arm and people who love decode, shape stick with us and have been with us for years ihave a number of e-mails and tweets on the same subject so you just answered the. >> guest: but the invisible army. walker said are there any additional dc character titles you car working on and develop neglect creator owned properties. >> guest: he means dc comics and those who dope know, i write comic backs as well lyrics first love, the first things i read. i love the thrillers and kid books and the first conspiracy.

when i get to seat in my house and right batman and put words in batman's mouth, i'm wearing my underwear on the outside of my pants that day. that's the best day of all. i love i get to do that. to me the most important part of the story is not superman. the most part of the story is clark kent. we're all clark kent, boring and ordinary and wish to do something beyond ourselves. the most recent story was for action comics, number 1000. the 1,000th issue of action comics and i dade story called, faster than speeding bullet. to honor super mon, and i he's flying full speed and says i'm not going to make it and is flying and said i'm not going to make it. you see what he they should tellscopic vision, he sees a gun being held to someone's head, woman's head, and he has pulled the trigger and superman is

flying. the bullet is starting to go through the gun. he says i now my top speed and how far away i am, i'm not going to make it but has to trial. the next page he's going as fast as he can flew when his father died. still not going to make it. then he realizes that he was focused so much on the man herb didn't he see the woman. she pushes her head against the gun and moved it's tiny fraction of a space, but it's enough that it buys him half a second and the comes through the wall and said, that's the second i need, and depth bullet. when no one knows and the great -- the story cans place in half second, the entire story. but at the end of the scene he says to the whom woman who he saves, he says you saved yourself. you should think but being a cop. she said, my dad says that everyone is here for a reason, and superman says your dad is a really smart man.

and what 0 no one knew is the woman who he saved in the story is actually my daughter. i had the amazing artist, who beautifully drew the issue, i gave him pictures of my daughter and i had a -- she became the hero of the book so everyone else was seeing the superman story but i what writing something moore my daughter i got say to my daughter, having superman say, your father is a smart man. >> host: there's an awl article about a book you wrote, woman who saved his teacher's life became a character. >> guest: let's talk about amy wags. my life was changed by teachers. many of them, actually. so miss spicer was an english teacher who told me could i write. the picture is mrs. sherman, my history teacher in 11th grade. gave me my love of history. owe her forever. when we did decodessed i dedicated the history book to

her to say thank you. she wrote me a letter saying she was actually sick and that she needed a new kidney. she was going to die if she didn't have a new kidney, and i went on my facebook page and she said can you put it out on facebook and twitter. said, you changed my life, of course, we sent it out and said anyone out there who will gave kidney, my history teacher needs a kidney. and one of the amazing people is a woman named amy wagoner, amy wags is what we call her, and she said, and volunteered and saying, a number of people said yet but she was the actual match for mrs. sherman, i and i was there in the hospital right after that picture was taken. she dime florida, saved mrs. sherman's life and i said in the original post, if you give your kidney, give a body part i'll make you a character in the next book so-so whenow odd the escape artist you'll see an amazing woman named amy wags,

who lives here in the washington, dc area. >> host: jackie is next, gilbert, arizona. you're on the air with brad meltzer. >> caller: i was wondering if brad has created a book regarding the first computer compiler from the shoe -- navy personnel -- >> guest: you're talking about grace hopper. >> caller: yeah. >> guest: i love grace hopper. ready for this? you have no idea what you stumbled on to here. grace hopper is an amazing navy hero, a woman who is credited with actually developing the term "computer bug, because she is the -- she found on all moth, a bug in a computer. incredible woman. i love her so much that when you read the inner circle and the

fifth assassin and the president residents shadow, there's character named amazing grace, computer genius in the book and everyone things she is an incredible hacker and is the man in the chair who is hacking and clicking. she is this elderly older woman named amazing grace, nailed after grace hopper. i want to do a book on grace hopper and the tv show, the cartoon show we're doing with pbs that comes out next year, we are trying to do grace hopper on the show. it's going to be the i am books we talked about. the i am books as a tv show and she is on the list so you'll see her soon. >> host: from kara armstrong, on facebook, i truly enjoyed lost history and heart felt thank you for locating the ground zero flag. i know of your love of history. you do you choose which lost or missing historical items to pursue. >> guest: yeah. i went to the history channel and i said i would love to use a

tv show to find lost historical artifacts, and i said we'll use the show like a want poster, hold the object if, give a reward out and on the first ensew we said this is the flag from 9/11 that the firefighter l firefighters raised at ground zero. the famous photograph. but the flag meant missing. and can you help us find it. we'll give you $10,000 if you help us bring it back. what no one knew is a man four days after the first episode of lost history aired, man walk in a fire face in everett, washington, in washington state, said i saul she show, this is the flag from 9/11 and i need return its. we picked the item is thought should come back. and we wanted to come back. and i just pucked the one is thought were important. >> host: i am brad meltzer. >> guest: kids are amazing. kids always come to our book signings.

we'll do this huge tour in january for the first conspiracy, and when i'm doing nonfiction or fiction, whatever i'm doing, kids come to the events with a list of demand. not a list of suggestions. candidates don't make suggestions. it's a demand list of who the next "i am" book should be and they're determined to have i am brad meltzer which i will never write but kid write them for me. how did you get a copy of that. >> host: we have great producers. >> guest: i know. this is -- the thing is, i'm so easy to draw. right? that's me. it's perfect. but they go and the find out about my life and they write stories. here, when i grew up and graduated from the university of michigan and moved to boston, they totally figure me out. draw me, kris is very scared because it looks just like me but they do. kids are incredible and i love they are determined to write my

own book. >> host: chuck, good afternoon from aroar remarks colorado. you're on the air. >> caller: thank you for c-span and i wanted to bring up the last speech of abraham lincoln which is made two days after appomattox where he was talking about restoring the union and he wanted black men to have the right to vote, particularly black soldiers, and there was man in the crowd who was so enraged by this that he swore that this would be the last speech that abraham lincoln ever made, and three days later that man shot abraham lincoln. i just wanted to bring this up as lincoln was a hero for voting rights because i heard in the last election where some people said that abraham lincoln did

not care for black voting rights. he died for black voting rights. >> guest: yeah. >> caller: here's a hero for that. >> guest: 100%. you have it right. when we did i am abraham lincoln, the most important page in that book, we talk but him as a kid. we start with the heroes when they're kids. the most important page is the greatest speech her gave is the get tis burg and it said to tides so they hear flat out that speech, the gettysburg address had 271 words. the most important words were these five, all men of created equal. i don't care how much nonsense you see, we know that to be true, and it is why abraham lincoln, to this day, is the greatest president. i love george washington, i love some modern ones, too but to me, the moral character of that man is unimpeachable. >> host: did he preserve the

country. >> guest: i mean, that's the reason we're here. that's its. it was truly -- we're -- let's be clear. we're in a civil war right now. we just don't call it. that but we're in a modern-day civil war. we don't do it with guns and shooting. we do it only social media and our television, and our reporting. we are absolutely doing nothing else bus trying to take each other down, whatever side you're on. and abraham lincoln was that person we could rally around, and a great enough politician to fin nagle back and forth and work both sides to finally come and say, we have more in common than we don't. and as long as you have leaders who think we have less in common, we have a problem. i truly believe that. i know that abraham lincoln, his best skill was that people -- even disagree with him, but that moral clarity he had and to remind us that we are better than our worst selves.

>> host: if you were to write a book on president trump, what would you write? >> guest: um, you know, his story is not written but it's not going to be about a guy who spends so much time saying things that have to be fact-checked and have to be about him. my wife worked for trump's sister, and i know the family very well. i've met him before. but you have to look around today and say, is the country -- go back to reagan. reagan's great campaign was you're better off four years ago than now? you think the country is better off? that's last we'll ask in two years. you think where we are right now, feel calmer than you did years nothing feel like things are going better and we're headed in he right direction? if you do, you want to write your donald trump book. if not, history will judge. >> host: identity -- facebook

comment, amy says we're planning a big trip to d.c., what are your secret must-do things on our list. i'm trying to take tips from your books but i'm never sure exactly what part is total fiction. >> guest: amy, go, take the book and go. go to d.c. with the books. if you take -- let's go through them. if you take the -- i'm trying -- the president's shadow, is about the lincoln memorial and shows you the hidden place below the lincoln memorial that is real. reads that chapter go and actually see it from above ground. you can see where the air vents are. see the secret below that. if you read the first counsel, you ago see where the secret tunnels are below the white house and where they come out and you can see from outside where they kind of lead. when you go to white house, the secret tunnels are real in there. if you read the books bout the castle, the zero game, shows you the secret tunnel below the u.s.

capitol. actually when the copol was built there was no air conditioning and they had a big dome in the mid but the side weren't there when the put the sides in, the air conditioning used to come through giants air vents and when the built the sides it wasn't like modern day where the -- the just ran them all together and i remember going with the curator of the capitol, crawl on our hands and knees, right after 9/11, crawling threw the air ventses and the labyrinths below the capitol and i was crawling on my hands in knees in the copal, days after 9/11 and he said, symptom. i said what's wrong, he said, don't move, i. >> they just put in a never cher is what can smell a change in the air, and it was -- he's like if this smells us, whether you're wearing cologne or whatever it's going to sets off an alarm in the capital and

we'll be on the front beige of the paper. for my readers will risk my life for you people, every time. but obviously all those things you see in book dish always change the security protocols, always, i change them on purpose because i want to write a book that is interesting but never at the expense of someone's safety. but those things you see, those tunnels to secret entrances, they're real. i don't make them up. >> host: send us an em. at book of the at c-span.org e.org. jeremy in new jersey. good afternoon. >> host: jeremy, are you with us? to jeff in texas. go ahead, please. >> caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i have a question with regard to your daily writing habits. first of all, how long does it take for you to compose an entire book and, second, what is your daily writing -- your daily

writing habits like, quo frontal an aspiringwriter. >> guest: jeff is like, screw you, i want to know how to write my book. appreciate, jeff, and i put actual -- go on my web site because there's an -- under the best of, there's a section that says how to get your book published. very quickly, i treat it like a job. start and sit by about 9:00, 9:30, i try to write until i peter out, and it's like squeezing a sponge. eventually you can only squeeze a sponge so much and it's dry, and i write straight through to 2:30. take lunch at 2:30 because i want to go as far as i can without interruption. eat a very late hundred and then come book and sometime its can keep going and sometimes i'm done at 3:00 and sometimes i'm done at 6:00 and sometimes at 8:00 but i like every day sitting down. don't work on the weekend. i need to recharge but that's what die every single day, try to sit down and do that.

in terms of how long it takes, the thrillers take me two years, take my a six months of research and another year, year and a half of writing. the "i am" kids books, it takes me a couple of weeks writing but so many months of research and reading books and biographs and chris does all the beautiful art and then in terms of nonfiction, like the first conspiracy, that was almost a decide candidate in me making because it started out a dead okayed ago and slowly looking it into. my oning there for a book, when you have an idea and -- a lot of good ideas out there you can find ideas everywhere but when you have the idea you can't shake, that's the idea to work on. i knew that after seven years it was still with me, she secrets plot to kill george washington. have to do this book. and so josh mentioned, when went to him first and was like can you help me with the research

and the first conspiracy came out of ten-year process. so every book is its own animal. >> host: what about the millionaires? >> the millionaires was my obsession with dish heard this detail. we know what they bank is, you take the atm card but someone said to me bill get as, the richest man in the world, doesn't go to the same bank you good to. bill gates has his own private bank, and these private banks cater to the wealthiest people in the world, and if you have $10 million, that's a nice start. if you have $50 million, they'll gas up the private jet and come see you. they have when you go in their private chefs, their private gifts, and it was a whole universe out there. the millionaires. now probably called the billionaires. but i was like, what do you mean they have a world we're not in? i want to know what is in that world and the need for that

book, started out by saying every book comes from a need. my obsession with going what do the wealthy have we don't have and how do we get there? i understand that story bus threat my story. my story, oliver and charlie, the heros of the book, the plot is very simple. their working class kids, they work in the backrooms of a private bank, and they actually go to -- they find out they've been betrayed and their bosses have wrecked their careers on purpose and they find an account of a dead person who left $3 million, and the guy is dead, and money is going to just sit here, victimless crime. they take the $3 as revenge to the boss who screwed them over and when he check their bank accountant -- no one in a bank like that misses $3 million. when they check the account they moved it into, they didn't steal 3 million, the account $313 million and they're screwed and that's the opening chapter of he the book and they're on the run. and i will say this is a true --

i never ever told this. he opening chapter of the book is based on a real ya famous person. i i went to a friend -- i say what is the scariest day at work. a guy would works at one of those banks and a guy who you all know, it's a friday afternoon, 5:00, and the phone rings, and it's this famous guy who says he's really mad because he wants to be on the forbes 400 list of the wealthist men in the world but the bank account the money has to be in has to be in a certain accountants and he is screaming at my buddy and hismy friend calls his boss, the boys unreachable, precellphone. in hamptons and he has to get this midges of dollars transferred, $20 million to transfer so he panics and reaches in and calls the guy and figures it out and transfers the money, and he gets its all done

right before 5, and then a buddy says to him, are you sure that as really the famous guy on the phone? and my friend has a heart attack. he realizes he doesn't know who he just tran ferred. to thankfully it really was him. this opening scene after he millionaires the same thing happens. i heard that story and like, that's that's greater story, the chapter one of millionaires. >> how did 3 million become 300 million. >> guest: that's the book. they're suckers and someone put the now there and some money was hiding in the can't they don't know and that's the mystery of the book, who done it. >> host: laura, welcome to the conversation from erie, pennsylvania? >> caller: hi, steve, thank you for c-span, a very interesting story with all of the plot witches the book, ike im interested anyone where your teacher was actually saying, find a donor, and i just watched your ted talk, and the one on

change history, write your story, and our story is simple. we started pro life charity called save unborn life here in erie, and we started just with one person, the person was thinking about an abortion, and she said i can't afford this child so we came out and the director said i wish we could do something and i said why don't we offer her some money and be saved over 100 unborn babies so far through the charity and we want to know from you, how to get more donors, how to get our story out there? >> guest: let's talk about that. here's the thing is. you're proving that is how history works. i don't care how much money you make or where you went to school or your title. believe in regular people and their ability to affect change ordinary people change the world and people like yourself who have a passion, cause you want to make an opportunity for

someone else, whatever it might be, that's how the world is changed. one person who is committed to an ideal and wants to fight for that ideal. so, to me, as you saw in the ted talk, got to tell your story. how do you get more people, get mow interest, get more attention? tell your story. history is not a bunch of dates and facts you memorize. history is a selection process. it chooses every single one of us every single day and the only question is do you hear the call? and you heard from erie, pennsylvania, heard the call. i guerin there are people who are mad, she's pro life and you should be -- like, whatever your cause is, we all have them. fight for your cause. tell your story. as long as it's going to help people and make a good result, like, that's a good thing. and to me, i love that it's not just the wealthy, not just the connected and especially today

it is the power of regular person. all at the core of every become i write. every nonfiction book i write. every "i am" kid book i write. the core of the first con sirs. you see george washington's character, this man in this moment, and to be -- escape artist checker book she was referring to show glad you're reading that. that is changed by these people who work on the -- the soldiers themselves, every day, giving their livessor. the ones who just came back, the three that just came bam prom dover and the day before. incredibley horrifying but incredible work at dover, the world changes every single day and that's how its will always be, and do me that's how it's always going to be. >> host: if there was brad melter jeopardy can he -- deash. >> guest: one sent me a picture of -- one for the escape artist.

said this brad meltzer back has hari houdini and what -- the escape artist, and so that was the good one if think the better one -- gosh -- >> but you personally. >> guest: yeah. again, i want -- my brain is going like what is the good answer but i'll give you the honest answer. my parents, always goes to my parents for me. my parent, my kid. that's my greatest work. i dope have a sharp, amazing, intellectual answer. write for my wife and my kids, write in honor of my parents who passed away. that's the core of who i am. if you understand them you'll understand me. and it's why die what i do. i have nonfiction books now because i had kids. when i got married, i wrote a book about a married guy. and i only sit here today

because my parents, when i went to michigan, never sent me there. had no money to do it and they should have sent me to the state school and said good there. cost much less, and my dad looked at me and said, i'm going to get you there. he had no business doing that. no business at all. but he would kill himself for me and my sister. and so the trivia question is, that's the core of it, is something that goes back to them. who else sold more people than 8 million fireworkers and -- new yorkers and that's my mom. >> host: who keeps you humble you wildfire. >> guest: who keeps me humble. certainly my wife dogs mitchell wife read every book, the first editor and the things she takes out all the jokes. you say aim other very funny person. i know that because i said that to you. and i know i'm very funny in everything i write and she's always reading and going, you're not that funny, this isn't that

funny, this super not funny. i'm like i'm so funny. you have no idea how funny i am. but that is humble. no one no one keeps me more humble than my children. no one. my daughter says to me, my son, i hate to read. i'm like, you do know what i do for a living. you do know what pays to feed you. and in fact my son recently came home from school, my youngest, and we helped fines the 9/11 flag and on 9/11, this past 9/11, my son came home from school and he had to write an article -- had 0 read an car and respond to it and the article was about finding the 9/11 flagly said, dad, dad, they didn't even mention you in the article. ha-ha-ha so proud. they just mention e messengered a tv show, not you. and i was like, son, you are going to crush this homework assign: bogey going to rule homework, and got picked up by yahoo because i tweeted about

it. the incomes day at 6:00 in the morning, this teacher called me up. i'm so sorry i didn't know it was you who helped find the flag. i was the best humbling moment i could ask for. >> okay hughes has a picture of the jeopardy question when -- >> guest: you found it. there it is. you even have that. >> host: i stanfully chicago, good afternoon. with brad melt sir. >> caller: brad, read you're escape artist and kudos to you my question involves the mortuary. i was an embalmer but the detail, the respect for the military dead mitchell -- dead. my question is, this grant facility, do they do embathroom embam civilians to do they

cremate on scene or let the local more televisions do the career make, your detail is so amazing. >> guest: thank you. stan. e-mail me through my webs because i'm always working for people who worked as embalmers, telling me you're the guy who called in because want to ask you a question. >> host: why. >> guest: research. this guy has embalmed many bodies and has a story of the contractseest story he ever had and that's my next book. >> host: could play a role in your next snook you religion see stanley, but to answer his question, so, the embalmers who there are are all civilians. they're not military people and sadly, there's a lot of work to good around there. we see -- i was just talk to one of the ones, one of my dearest

friendses who i met while i was researching the escape artist... is if there is some kind of connection to the case or it's important. all the victims from the 911 flight of the pentagon went their. the astronauts from the challenger explosion went to those are-- don't so you will see civilians going there and you'll also see sometimes john glenn went in there because he was a man of obviously a huge politician, very famous person anyone did to make sure his body was done right so you will see

people like that go there. it runs the gamut, but if there is a regular civilian and there they will go to someone local at dover. i love that morticia and called in and said how are they getting paid, so he has entire experience as that job that will inform a character of mine? host: we will go to melvin in kansas city, missouri. caller: thank you c-span. i appreciate what you all do and i'm fascinated on hearing his story-- brad's story i'm not that familiar. my question is, and i know you said that children are taking kind of the book. would he consider for that i am books, i'm an advocate. guest: miriam right edelman posted my very first book party.

i love to work with children took she hosted the 10th justice book party. when i first went in and said i wanted to work on that im children book they said i have these books and how many do you want to do, two or three and i said i want to do 100. my goal is to do 100, an entire library of heroes and she is someone who certainly deserves to be on their. she does incredible advocacy work. when my kids were firstborn, on the day i was born my father went to the liquor store and bought a bottle of champagne and said i'm going to open this bottle of champagne when my son brad gets married and i remember we moved from florida-- moved to florida from new york and the things you give to the movers and the things you taken a car with you is your life and i remember we drove down from new york to

florida, my mom and dad in the front seat and my sister and i the backseat and behind the two headrests were two bottles of champagne that would roll back and forth. my parents didn't know anything about taking care of champagne, but we were their lives and when my son was born-- my first son was born i said i want-- i don't care about champagne. i went to write a book that will teach them how to be a good man that will give them rules to live by to be a good person, how to be kind, generous and i figure one damn would present him with this book and he would say to me, thank you, father. you are indeed the greatest that of all time and i had this big parade planned for myself, but the book was garbage. it was like expecting your kid to be good but a friend of mine told me this amazing story about the wright brothers and said every time the wright brothers would fly the airplane they would bring enough extra materials for extra

crashes with feeds every time they went out they knew they would fail and they would crash and rebuild, crash and rebuild and that's why they took off and i love that story. one of my-- i wanted my sons and daughter to hear that story took you dream big and work hard and you have a good side order of stubbornness and you can do anything in this world and i said that's the book i want to write, not a book of rules, but of heroes. i wrote heroes for my son and then i wrote heroes for my daughters, one page stories of inspiration-- inspiration. that book started me out in doing that and back to the question, i put all these people in their who are not just famous, but people you have never heard of. my english teacher from ninth grade changed my life, sheila spicer is in their by saying you can write. i thought everyone can write. she said no, you know what you are doing and she tried to put me in the honors class and i had a conflict.

she said here's what you're going to do, you will sit in the corner the entire year and ignore everything i do on the blackboard and ignore every homework assignment i give and you will do the honors course and said. what she really said is you will thank me later. i will tell you that a decade later when my first book was published i went to her classroom and i knocked on the door and she said can i help you and i said my name is brad meltzer i wrote this book and it's pretty she started crying and i said what are you cry she said i was going to retire because they did not think i was. you have 30 students and one teacher and she had such an impact so those people that i selected are all these incredible people through history and now it's kind of the first place and miriam was on the list when i first started and she's one of those great people that i think him again, a hero.

host: one quick follow-up and then we will take a break but from there-- the trick from brooklyn to florida was that when you stopped in washington? caller: how do you know that? some things i will give you, but have i ever-- i honestly-- i clearly told the public but i am trying to figure out where you saw that. i just told the story to my sister and she didn't even know it. we didn't have any money for hotels when we drove. we had to make it quick. we stayed in one hotel. we could not stop in dc and so what we did when we threw-- drove through washington i was 13 and i had a kodak disc camera and my parents knowing that i wanted to see these things would pull up to the monument or white house or lincoln memorial and i guess they couldn't even afford a parking and they would stop a car and i would get out of the car. i remember i ran up the lincoln memorial steps, it took a picture, ran down, got in the car and

then we would go to the white house. iran now, when it to the gate and took a picture and did the same thing at these monuments as we passed by and that was my first moment in washington. truly a 52nd to work, but it changed my life and needless to say i made my way back. good for you in finding that story. i feel like now you are eavesdropping on my calls. host: 2016, brad meltzer with barbara bush, lucille ball. explain what they are about to see. caller: this is how much barbara bush love the literacy is we did a book called im you-- lucille ball and i wanted my daughter to have this book. we would watch lucy together and we would do the story times where i would read the book with someone and we would do something fun and i said what if i dress up like lucille ball and we create the chocolate conveyor belt seen and here's the best part of the back story is mrs. bush's office says

that's great let's do it and we are raising money for literacy. they put us in the car together and we were going back to the president's office to do with their and i figured she has been briefed and knows everything and we are in the car talking and she said what are we doing in the office and i realize they did not tell her. well, mrs. bush i'm not even going to tell you. this is where i think you just roll the clip, but i told her this and this is what she basically said yes to his as re-creating this scene with a thousand chocolates. host: we are midway through our three-hour conversation on c-span2 book to be in depth and this is the final of a 12 part series in which we have featured fiction authors with our guests this month brad meltzer. we will come back with more calls and comments and e-mail questions and twitter comments for this runs about six minutes. brad meltzer with barbara bush. >> we are going to read

a very special book, my favorite author is reading today. q tell us what you are reading. >> i'm going to read "i am lucille ball" by brad meltzer illustrated by christopher polis. >> we don't really care that much about him. the writer is who we want to focus on. >> the writer? >> yes the writer. >> yuriko. >> by the way i want you to know we are going to do the chocolate conveyor belt seen and you will do that with me right? >> no. i am lucille ball. what i was a little girl my mother tried to dress me in ribbons and bows, but i was different from other girls. my ideal of fun was horsing around with my dad. he would throw me up to the ceiling, always catching me and making me a bath. put her down right now that's not a game for a proper girl. i don't think this is a proper girl. when i was three years old local grocer would let me put on a show at

his store, my favorite was this broad routine. >> this will be like lucy and ethel me and you right now. >> very much. >> like keenan and amy, skipper and gilligan, forrest gump in jenny. >> perfect. are you a not? by the time i was 12 i realized there was real power in making people laugh. the principle of my school, a man named bernard drake realized it. he was very first person to label my wild and fun behavior as talent. >> talent. >> when i was 17, my mom sent me to a fancy acting school in new york city. it didn't go as i would plan your of the 70 students accepted, they

narrowed it down to 12. i didn't make it. i failed. from there i tried being a dancer, but nothing much changed. i never let it stop me. at one point i was so poor i was down to my last 4 cents. that's it, for pennies. i waited for a customer to leave a restaurant and then i would grab the leftover food before it got thrown away. i went to send-- i went to so many trials i even wore out my shoes, but no matter how hard i tried the message it never seemed to change. eventually i did find work and then with a bit of luck i finally got my first big break in the movies. i was 21 years old, selected to be one of the girls in the back row of the movie roman scandals. as the director came to inspect us all i grabbed some red crêpe paper, tore it into shreds, licked it and--

>> lucy was born. >> lucy was born. >> here's the key part, pay attention to this part. this is not important part. >> in time that confidence led to the one role that changed my life. i had left the movies and was working in radio and then cbs had a brand-new idea for a tv show. to prove them wrong, my husband desi and i took our show on the road. we turned it into a packed. it was an old kind of show with lots of funny skits. it became such a big hit cbs decided it was ready for tv. we asked for one thing, to film the show in front of a live audience hearing that audience, people at home would really feel the laughter the tv network was worried about the cost of the film. they said it would be too expensive, so we made a deal.

they could pay us less money, but the show would belong to us. >> mrs. bush, together, let's do it. like donald trump-- probably not them, that's not the best example. we will-- here we go. >> every episode lucy and right along with their best friends at the land fred would get into a crazy adventure. every day america turned to see what lucy was up to. they wanted to see what new trouble i would get into and they wanted to see who else would show up. we had famous guest stars like harpo marx, superman-- that's right, superman. >> i love superman. he's my favorite. >> your mouth is full. between 1952 and 1953, though the first tv bosses said no one would be interested two out of three households with tv sets were watching i love-- i love lucy on

monday night for what was the secret of the show's success? it was the thing i learned all those years ago. >> this is so much chocolate in my mouth i have no idea-- >> yes, i do. its gross. today people call me the greatest comedian of my time and one of the most beloved entertainers ever, but i was also the first woman to run a major hollywood studio. remember what i said when the tv show belonged to us. star trek admission possible-- >> here's my favorite part by the way. >> in life people put me down because i was different from everyone else. they didn't like the way i look.

>> i didn't see anything in the way you were talking about. >> or the way i talked with the way i was clowning around. this isn't a joke. don't let other people change you. there is no such thing as a proper girl or boy. be true to whoever you are. host: first about what was barbara bush's reaction? guest: did you see that? total madness. i'm eating a thousand chocolates in the president of the united states his. barbara bush was-- it was done in one take and if you listen closely you can see that kind of highlight reel of it and it is-- the staff is hysterically laughing in the background and they said to me after that it was the funniest thing they've ever seen her do and it's all her. she is the perfect straight man for the job and she is crushing and when i say it's like it's going to be like hillary and donald trump and she just looks at me like, fool.

she knows the comedy. she knew it was a good laugh. i think what you really see in between the pixels is our trust and she knew i would never do anything that would not be in the best respect and would not be fun for literacy, but what i really think you see there is not taking herself seriously and having a good time. host: that scene from nearly 70 years ago and yet we still remember it today. guest: when we were doing that i am lucille ball book it was a moment when they said we don't know what we can get the chocolate conveyor belt because it doesn't come from the lucille ball is stay it comes from cbs and i was like if we don't have that we don't have the book because that's what people know and we want kids to see it so when our amazing artist was redoing that we knew kids had to laugh and when we see that scene in the book, i mean, i love there are kids across the country for halloween dressed up

as a lucille ball thanks to our book and they are watching lucy again in their writing letters saying i just watch the conveyor belt scene and i love that we brought that back for them. when you watch them, lucille ball is such a star. everyone else is doing nothing but working around her and it's this incredible power she has and people don't even realize it in terms of impact. it's not about fame for us. that's not why we do the book. lucy was rejected over and over. she was so poor she would eat out of a restaurant off of other people's plates. she was told she should go home to her home town that she would never make it she was a pretty enough or dainty enough, not light on your feet enough and lucy was like watching this. there is nothing that inspires me more than someone saying no to me. host: now her hometown, jamestown new york has the comedy hall of fame and museum. guest: they do and we love to work with them.

i love the power of lucille ball that we get to put it out for the next generation. host: send us an e-mail and this is from rob who says the most impactful book you have ever read and why, what is a? guest: i mean, i think-- listen, we talk about agatha christie and that changed my life and i guess this is where i'm supposed to say to kill a mockingbird or a wise answer, but i honestly think for me it was a justice league of america number 150. it was the first comic book i ever read and in the comic book it was the justice league gets trapped in prison and it's like these giant keyholes and superman is in his prison, but it's coated with kryptonite so he can not get out and green lantern cannot get out, flash is called coated with something so he cannot library out and, i mean, i'm nine

years old and i'm like how will they-- will they be trapped there forever like they could all die in this comic. on the kid, so i don't know. the thing that happens in the book is the way they get out is this character stretches his body. he can't get out of his prison, but he can what they can do is-- and flash can vibrate through the prison but cannot leave. so, elongated man makes himself into like a giant rubber band like a treadmill and the flash together they move him over and they get him in there and he can run in his own prison and then they figure out like by doing that they can work together is the point of the story. by working together you can actually get out. that metaphor has a served me well for fortysomething years. it's that i did that even though we are

ordinary people and we all have our own dreams and now are things we care about that there is nothing like the power of when you do it altogether and i think in many of my books you see that. you see that kind of like that person who is struggling with that issue especially in the drillers. i will say this way, at the signing for "the escape artist" in miami and i have been doing signings in miami for 20 years and this woman stand up and says i reacher books. i read all of your thrillers and she said i feel like every book you write is like this young guy and he wants to be a part of some bigger thing, it could be the white house, a private bank, something big and by the end of the book he realizes that thing is not what he thought it was, maybe not as great as it was and he struggling with that to figure out who he is and i looked at her and i did not know it either, but i said to her you are absolutely right. that's every single one of my books except for this one and the-- "the escape artist" was different because

instead of writing the book is a kid which is how i have always wrote, kid he read justice league and wanted to do it together with friends , "the escape artist" is different because i wrote it as a father and here was this guy who works for these soldiers whose in this hole surrounded by death every day and worried about this girl who comes on to this table who is supposedly dead. she's not. she's alive and on the run and she escapes, but that love that he feels for his own daughter and for this woman who is in danger, that's my love for my kids that's my love for my wife. that's my love for where i am now and i switched that point of view and i think that justice league started me there and somewhere along the way i kind of found my own story. host: is a difficult or easy to come up with some of the character names? guest: names are hard. there's an alchemy in me, when you need something you give it

power and if you just, you know, give it a boring naming you say this will be iraq, he's going to be iraq, i knew nola, even finding ben addison who is named after my grandfather who tell me batman stories when i was little because he knew i loved batman, you give a power to it and a good name is hard. i have a whole list of the best names. host: nora hartson and michael gary from the first council in 2001. guest: michael is-- there's a code in his name. he's named after the golden age flash was always running. nora, i wanted a name that was new but was a throwback and so nora became that name. nola in "the escape artist" because that was the perfect name because she was actually named after new orleans, the most dangerous city in the whole world as far as i'm concerned as breaking rules.

zig was named in honor-- it was the perfect name. host: in the book, the body parts found in the rose garden. guest: this was a crazy story. so, i knew i wanted to start the book with a body part basically what they find is-- i don't want to ruin the theme, but they find a hand in the rose garden buried in the dirt. first lady is planting. she's a gardener and when i asked mrs. bush about it like i asked all these but you will see the bushes and president clinton was kind to me also, but i would ask them what do you miss, when you were actually in the white house and you are the president what you miss and they were like having moments to yourself. everyone is always all over you so that idea of this first lady just gardening. she's surrounded by stop all day long, but here in the middle of the night she just plans her

things and has this garden. this is before michelle obama announced regarding, actually peered just to have a moment and as she is digging through the dirt , that smell of the soil inspires her and makes her feel like i am back again, not the white house but home. i'm younger and i have this moment to myself and then she finds on arm buried in the rose garden. screams, obviously took how did this get past security? what happened? as the plot. i have chapter one. the question is how to get chapter two, so i went to the secret service i said what would you do? would you put it on the news, and then down, do dna? they said the first thing i would do is i would paint the white house i said what you talking about paint the white house and they said well, here's the thing, if i go and scream it to everyone i will tell everyone what i've got never ruined the crime scene. they said, but if i say

i want to do home improvement in the white house and some rooms need painting we should get the first family to move across the street to live in blair house for a little bit and now, we have the first family away. all the presses away from the white house and i can do the full investigation and no one will know what i'm up to. i can do the whole thing and no one realizes what's going on. i said why does that semi- might has happened and he said they give it this way, brad, bill clinton did home improvements in the music room for george w bush did improvements. barack obama did improvements. you will not believe the investigations that have happened here in the name of home improvements and that's where the rest of the book came from, going to secret service and having them help me figure it out. host: dave from new jersey. caller: good afternoon. mr. melcher, believe you are asking is static fingering you cut through the grand illusions where your intelligence will take user places to find out

what was really happening. i'm concerned with your thinking to apply your thinking to the 911 scene. do you believe that some people say that it was a mossad operation and that it was controlled demolition and also at the pentagon, many of the government thinkers and observers visualize that there was a missile turbine inside the pentagon and not jet turbines. caller: listen, day, i appreciate the question and welcome to my life because when you do a show called decoded and you have-- anyone has a crazy story, no one gets crazier e-mail that may. you send it to jesse ventura army. the family of abraham lincoln's killer, john wilkes booth, killed abraham lincoln in 12 days later was shot

himself. their lawyer called me up and said listen, i have the family and i represent john wilkes booth family and they have a story to tell and they say john wilkes booth didn't die 12 days later even though every history book says it. they say he went on the run and escaped. they have evidence, would you like to speak with them? yes, i went to here so i get plenty of people and asked me about 911 or what happened at the pentagon. here's what i know, there is more misinformation on 911 than just about any modern thing i can find in history. if you put 911 and pentagon into youtube you cannot even find the actual footage from that day because it sells old with conspiracy theories and other crazy stories and i love a crazy story. i think you are right i want to cut through all that and find it, but i will also tell you for anyone that says it's fake or anything else, my friend michelle heidelberger died in 911.

she was a flight attendant on the pentagon flight so anyone tells me that did not happen, my friend has been missing for over 15 years now and i know what happened that day. her husband is a pilot. now, do i think there is a lot more out there that we don't know? i think it's interesting you watch these people from saudi arabia leave our country right before, a day before that happened like that is interesting to me. .. and get one million dollars coming to them. they lie for very simple reason. for money, power, sex,

embarrassment, things they want to cover up, things they're ashamed of and the government has hard team keeping a secret, as we know. die think there's more out there that is interesting about what people knew and when? absolutely. die think this is all crazy, kooky -- there's some crazy store us but something that would always love to look at, always love to hear more. >> host: a quick followup. you mentioned saudi arabia. could you come up with a store jamal khashoggi and the prince. >> guest: i was invited to go to a conference right before it happened and then all of this happened. and i ask myself to this moment, why was i invite. >> host: why. >> a book festival. the big crown prince wanted to meet me. sometimes book still is a book

festival. in my imagine -- i made that up saul the reaction and watched an american citizen be killed and now we have a president who doesn't want to do anything about that, there's a reason that for the first time republicans and democrats are aligned ago something. this is the first time where donald j. trump is saying, my gosh, the democrats and republicans agree on one thing, that you have to stand up for your own citizen, your own people. if i bring a story like that to my editor, my editor says, no one will believe it. this is sometimes history -- you don't know it's playing out and you absolutely know. this is playing out. >> host: in 2015 you said if i created a character like donald trump in a thriller my editor would say no one will believe this. >> guest: a reality story who is going to become the president? telling me -- if i said at that time to my editor some she --

she would be, brick it back. you can't fight against arrest can't beat it. always beat you. so, i remember when i was doing the -- the first council. first book about the white house. i hat meetings set up. the first white house book i'm doing and i'm not joke, the week i'm about to goo into the white house this little scandal named monica lewinski broke? and no one would talk to anyone. you have a reporter coming to your office. everything was shut down. and the "washington post" did this huge story that said, basically, only a fool would be write bought the white house right now. what's going on in the white house, in the midst of monica lewinski is so crazy. nobody would -- only a fool would start a white house

thriller. i was like, i'm that fool. i'm the fool. i was obsessed with the white house. still wanted to no what goes on, the secret tunnels. how does the president get out and eventually they let me in because i am the fission writer. i'm the -- fiction writer. i i'm not going to quote you our say you did something bad. it's heyday. you inbound find footage of me going the white house. one i had the head person of the lewinski investigation in the white house, setting and talking to me. every reporter in the whole country wanted to me but was in there because i was like, what's it like when the whole world is staring down and i had the best seat in the house. now two years past. and this -- my book is coming out. the book is coming out in i think a month or two, and this tiny little tv show debuts for the fir time called "the win e

west wing" and everybody at that moment in time is interested in the white house again, and a week or two or a month later, my book comes out, and we -- the biggest book i'd ever done. suddenly the only dumbies who had anything to do with the white house was the west swing and me and the book took off. just because the interest was there it taught me right there, never try to fight reality. do what you love and pray for the best. the escape artist, i started three years ago. if i was writing a book right now but the white house, i would literally -- i want to put a gun my head. i can't compete with the crazy necessary every day going on in white house, the world is so focused on this president who every day, whether you love him or hate him, has more action going on than any president in history. the speed of the scandal, the speed of the reporting, the -- we are on hypertime right now. remember when you used to

fastford and go times 12 and 12 and we are watching 128 every day. that's where our twitter feeds are and if i wrote about the white house right now, i'd be like, can't compete with that. it's too much. i don't know that. the escape artist, i happened to pick over air force base -- dover air force base and our fallen troops because it was interesting. i lad no idea donald j. trump would be elected and we would go to times 28 and i got lucky. >> host: send us your questions. wonder, i would love to listen to other media sources to provide alternatives aside from c-span and pbs there are few alternative sources. your recommendations. >> guest: yeah. no. it's a yeley good question. let's think real quick. firmly believe in picking opposite yourself. so if you are one of those people who watches fox news every day, go to ms. snbc. follow them on twitter,

facebook. if you're on msnbc all the time go to fox news. think more interestingly is pick the -- pick people, pick smart people. even if they're the opposite of your thinking, whether you're picking george will or whether -- there are incredibly smart people and whether it's jake tapper, or chuck todd that you want to physical, just really interesting feeds of i you want to -- whether it's brian kilmeade, check them out. the one thing i know is when you look through someone else's eyes you open your heart, open your mind, and you look for someone else's eyes. not going to agree with them. gorge bush -- when president bush passeddary, the number one thing people wrote i didn't agree with the man ol' his politics but i respected him and that's how the sentence would start, over and over and over. we at least need to get back to that. may not agree but try to find

some semblance of common ground. now, admittedly, when the president of the united states is taking harder crack at things happening here rather than putin, rather than saudi arabia, rather than all these thing that are -- china and things, it makes it hard for people but try to find that semblance of, let me understand where they are coming from. i promise you it will make you. >> host: our next caller, linda. >> caller: hello, big question. my question for you is you're so entertaining in your words are so great. >> guest: thank you. hasn't thelma. i really appreciate it. >> caller: you're welcome. i am a underground, never done it but i have hundreds of stories in my -- and i start out writing all the time but i never finish, and i just want to be a writer, i have no idea, and i

did take a little creative writing class after i graduated from college and the teacher just shot me down. >> guest: oh, no. can't have that. this is a very important question. a big question. i will tell you one thing. you must keep writing. you must keep writing. had 24 people who told me to give it up. 24 rejection letters on my first book, said, brad, you're terrible, you can never do it and i don't look back on that experience and say, i was right and they were wrong and ha-ha on them. that very pighead, but when i look back i realize that we know so often in life, all it takes is one person to change your life. right? think of that person who gave you your first real job, told you were good at something. your job is to find that person. so, go tell your story. put it down on paper. i knoll you said you started which means you're luke i

couldn't finish. finish. finish. there's a -- almost like -- i don't think -- statistically true. but 99% of people who start a book never finish it and 99% of people who finish a book never get it published. those numbers are a little ridiculous but the point is right, which is everybody says they want to be a writer but can't finish the book can then you're not writing. to by a writer is just to write, do it. like i said before, write a page every day. you. >> host: you included criticism of the book of lies, the negative reviews. what was that about? >> guest: it was very important to me. i think it was about 15 year anniversary of me doing this, and i just gotten all these bad reviews. always gotten beautiful reviews, i'm the greatesting of the happen, fresh new breath of legal thrillers, the next coming are that's not right. but it's also just as othersly not right to say he's the worst thing ever but they hurt.

they hurt. remember when i said i wasn't in the good-i could be like everything is great. got -- "usa today" gave me a review, the first council, wrote a headline and said i opened up the paper so excite, great big launch party, and they said you're going to be vie screwed inas "usa today" tomorrow. i was at mcdonald's and i opened up the paper and i was so excited to see what they wrote about my amazing book it and said, make first your last and it was like a public beating. every bad review is like your mother said it to you and i remember calling my mom, mad and upset and so sad, purpose -- punk me in the face and my mom says, don't worry, no one reads that paper. i'm like, mom, it's the most read paper in the country and imfinally realized i can't be scared of these things. have to embrace them. rather than just ignore them.

every single one of them i read and there's some good truth in there. if you read them you below become a better writer. that person had you for a reason. better learn or you won't get better. i read the reviews but can't have them have power over me. collected the reviews and took my kids and the little league team and went to at the old age home where my grandmother worked and i did this. i think the best way to show it. >> host: let's watch a portion of it. >> if you don't think about it too much. >> disappointment. >> biggest book. [inaudible] >> d plus. >> d plus. >> d plus. >> well, it sounds okay. >> d plus? >> no, b plus. >> i no, but i got a d plus. >> oh.

>> that's my grandmother, may she rest in peace and no script. but i got a b plus. he says a b plus isn't bad. i said i got a d plus. he said you have to work harder. if you put in worst -- everyone ahead brad meltzer and you can fine that. for writers-specially our last caller -- i'm talking about famous writer, many who you have hat on here who e-mailed me privately and said thank you for vat video and i realized i wish i was smart enough to know this. when i did that and embraced all the awfulness, it freed me from it, and make no mistake, every bad review still hurts. not like i'm impervious, but made me realize the flaw in every critic is that they're humid. it's why it's an inpeople serve and that's okay, too. but i do believe that all the reviews that say you're the best

doesn't mean you're the best and. journey job is to look for the truth and to the caller, keep writing you story, every day, write a page. you'll have a book in a year. >> james from fort washington, maryland good. ahead, please. >> caller: how are you doing. good afternoon to steve and brad. a friend of mine gave me one of your books. i can remember the name of it but it was in 2009 while i was in the hospital. and the end part was about something in the basement of a -- somewhere in western d.c., and you got some muck and stuff down there. but at any rate, let me say this. i followed you and i see you quite often in different places of he here's what i would like for you to do if you can. can you write up story of -- called, who asked you, and the

reason i say that is like all of the k street and the think tanks come on sometimes with good stuff but who asked them to come on? and the good thing about c-span is that it's right next to fox and so they can keep them covered. when i say -- the studio, evidently, is right there -- >> host: you want me to find out who benefits, fright that's the whole thing. listen. the great thing but c-span -- let me tell you the other great thing. no out it next to fox or cnn but the fact if you -- it lets you have access to information and there's nothing more powerful than that. you're asking the right question. you want to know who benefit us. want to know the why.

you answer that question and you'll find more interest interesting. >> host: this an e-mail from a viewer saying would you consider a i am book, the first soldiers in what became the war on terror, the hero passengers and the crew of flight 93. >> guest: i love of course i would. and i love them so much if outcome loot a heroes from the daughter there is an entire page, one of of the heroes is the crew and the passengers on unite flight 93. and let me tell you why i'm particularly interested in that story. my wife on 9/11, we were living near washington, dc. and my wife work at the u.s. capitol. she was nine months pregnant. and our son, truly -- say nine months pregnant. nine months pregnant and was driving to work and the planes just hit in new york, and hit the towers, and my wife is

driving to the capitol, and she says to herself, you know, i wonder if they republic up -- they'll upsecurity at the capitol and city stops on the side of the road and says we have terrible security in the capitol, and pulls over and calls me, and she says, i have a bad feeling about what is going thereon today. i don't think shy go to work. and i said, shouldn't go to work. turn around and come home. and she came home, and of course we know what happened at the pentagon. we know what happened in new york. but that pennsylvania flight, flight 93, that beamer and those amezing people that, plane was head nor capitol. some say it's the white house or the cap you'll about to the plaque is in the u.s. capitol. always been my take the signal was, it was glowing and i believe it was going there and i'm not saying that the plane was coming in right as my wife pulled into work and they saved her life but i do know that but

for those people, my life is profoundly different. they are heroes regardless of my personal stake in that story but 100%. that's why dedicated a page to them. >> right, billings, montana. go ahead, please. >> yes, mr. meltzer, james was talking about the archivist -- >> guest: yeah. talking about the inner circle. >> caller: yes. we have to get him to buy more books? >> but my -- you're research and your life are amazing. my favorite novelist was taylor caldwell, and she plug me into all this. she wrote historical novels and it made you feel like you were there and i felt like i was in the archivist room. i'm about 80 and i had a little eye problem and i do all of the

books on tape. >> guest: yeah. >> caller: wondering if you're going to do all your new things on tape. >> guest: yes. my grandmother, who you just saw in the video, was -- when she reached her nine's, she could no longer -- she was a huge reader. the only real reader in our family. she could no longer read because she went blind, and i remember we just had -- just starting audiotapes back then. cassettes. and doing audio books and i gave her scott brick, has read all our books, the best audio book reader of anybody, and i gave dish didn't like the first guy they gave us and gave us another person it and was like, not a very great match and then scott brick, and i played it for my grandmother, and i said what do you shock, she said, bradly, he sound handsome and i knew that was our guy.

wanted a guy who was handsome, so -- but all kidding aside, it changed my grandmother's life. would make sure she always got an audio book. so to answer your question, absolutely they're on audio book, every single book i every wherein, they're all on odd you book and all read by scott brick and the first conspiracy, the secret plot that killed george washington, he just finished recording a week and a half ago and will be doing the audio. even are you can't see it, grab it on audio. they're all there. >> host: from the book, the zero game, matthew mercer, harris sandler, 2005. >> guest: yeah. so i'm going to do this without the spoiler. so this book came about -- i told you my first job was i was 18 years old and i used to work at the senate judiciary committee, and this was a story i heard back then. there were two staffers who would make a little bet. make bets like, i bet i can

guess how many pencils in your drawer and i can guess what time we'll go to lunch, i bet how many votes on a bill. and then it just started escalating and then the rumor i heard was that one of them said, i bet i can put two words in the senate're speech and he'll never know it. the words dry cleaning. they were tired of picking up the senator's dry cleaning so let's put the word dry cleaning in his speech and one said to the other you can't do and that he said, wanna bet? and i forget what the rumor but the whole story is like blur to me, but i'll never forget it it and said, maybe people think the environment is an issue that is dry, comma, cleaning up should be the first priority and the word dry clean was in the senator's speech. that was the greatest story if heard, way to show that you who

think you're in power are not really in power. there are so many people behind the scenes who are far more power than you time didn't realize why i loved that start of the story. i know now because of my whole core belief system, and i said, why don't we do a book where have staffer who are truly gambling on congress. not just about -- putting word inside congressmen's speech but actually to -- how many votes on this bill. i bet i can get 200, 250. i bet you can't get over 230. wanna bet? and the bet is paid and that's the zero game. members of congress betting on bills. start happening and people started telling me stories that it really happened. that's when you know you're on to a good plot. people say to you, my gosh, yeah, i heard someone was doing that. i remember when i was doing the

book about -- the inner circumstance of george washington, doing seek cell for the book the fifth assassin. went to one of the top guys in the cia and i said my book is about george washington and he said i heard their still around and i said, no, i made that up and he was like, yeah issue head their still around. when the head guys at the cia tell you that,ow feel like you're just -- now you're like, my phone is bugged. but that's when it gets cool. so matthew americaer and harris also had -- they were the main characterness the zero game, and the zero game was -- can't -- has the single best twist i've ever written. and i wanted to see -- >> host: give us a tease. >> guest: i basically was like, can you kill the character that no one thinks you're going to kill? that's the best way. and i'll just say it.

the question was can you kill a first person narrate glory you have a first person narrate you. can you tell that person or is that thank you enbroken rule. once you hear the word, i'm bored today and want to go to work today, you're like he's our narrator, he's safe. i was like why? why are they safe? says who? who wrote the rules? i said ick do that? can i somewhere in the middle of the book take that away and i said i don't know if i can or can't but that's the best reason to try. this first book i ever wrote, a third person narrator, ben was sweeting like pig, someone suppose told be that way. i said to my editor at the time, can you go to, like, first person and third person and do them both at the same time? one person says, ben is sweating and the next chapter, i was really nervous. no, no, no, they have to be all

third person help said that's the rule. the second book i was i'm going to two narrators. and he said, okay. and then he said you can't do third and first. was like, let's try, and the third book i gave if at show. the fourth book -- then i got the zero game and i was like, can you kill a first person narrator and they said no. i says, who is they? so everybody book to me is me trying to figure out in the form and not to get all arty fartsy, when someone says see if it's possible. when you read a book and have been reading them -- like in our onwhere, thrillers or legal thrillers, written ten or 12 of them, you're like, i read that person in the beginning, they were good in the beginning but now their -- you know what's going to happen, like connect

the dots. that happens because the author is bored, too. been writing that character for 20 years and they're bored and when i started writing remember i said, i never want to be that person. never want to be that author who feels like, man, i'm bored. i did so it much i don't want to do it again. every book i've written i try to find the thing i have never done before and i tried. there are that's why i found know lamp can i nolan. when due you due when your character is the most dangerous character in the book. can i pulling that off? let's see. that's what makes me feel like it's going to be interesting, and to me when you're reading a good book and you you feel like it's leave the station like a train thatter is barrel ought of the station, the reader is feeling that because the writer love what they doing. the x-factor is does the write are love what they're doing some to me that's what you have to have. everybody book you do. if you don't feel like that, don't start the back. >> host: vick, thank you for

joining, and bruno, california, you're next. >> caller: yes. thank you, good afternoon. mr. meltzer has been talking about the question why and who benefits. wondered if he has ever thought but taking on a subject that a lot of over people seem to stay away from, and that's the jfk assassination. >> guest: you just -- that's my number one of all the great stories. we actually did tackle it. i became -- i'm so obsessed with it that we put it in our decodessed book, where we counted on the ten top conspiracies. the great thing but the jfk one it has the best stories. also has the crazy jest -- craziest stores and enwhether i first starts doing this, that was the first conspiracy theory i ever heard. i talk but miss sherman, who is life was saved when he helped find her a kidney but the reason she got me turned on to history, wayns 11th grade and she

brought in a big tv and when the rolling cart comes in with the tv, it's the best day because you're going to see the movie. the movie the put on was the jfk conspiracy. it wasn't a cooky movie but one of those one that asked the true, logical questions that deserve to be asked, which is, how does jack ruby get through an entire police station full of cops and no one stops him? what is lee harvey oswald doing in russia for all those years, as someone who served in the military and no one knows anything about system even with the reese of the documents, there's still unanswered questions. those are logical, good, fair questions to be asked. why. >> host: why hey took lee harvey oswald in a public set snag right. there's things that just -- i think that many of these things are like the supreme court definition of pornography.

we know when something just smells wrong. we just do. but what is great about the jfk story is when you really dig, some of the things have completely unanswerable questions and deserve to be asked some and some are based on lies that have been bred into us. oliver stone, when he did the jfk movie, did one of the great disservices to history because at the time -- we didn't have the internet, didn't see interviews with directors back then, but he actually says at the time he was so mad at the warren commission that he wanted his movie to be a response to it so he added characters and facts and details that weren't true. and he average person -- however many millions people took the movie as true, there's an audio tape that has a third shot on it? where did that shot come from or fourth shot? where did that come from? in the movie is says that no one

has been able to recreate the shot that lee harvey oswalt took. i remember when i was a kid watching the movie i thought, oh, then he couldn't have done it because no one has been able to recreate the shot. too hard too far, there's the answer, logic tells you. >> host: have you been do dallas sunny went there it's an easy shot. in fact, what they didn't tell you in jfk is tons of people have recreated that shot. marine -- the marines to be a sharpshooter have to make a shot like that even further away. but we watch the movie and no one has made the shot. it's just not true. >> host: this is from phoenix, an e-mail, this viewer in the 11th grade. as history buffer i care about history. first what can we do to make history, to give it exciting to a new generation secondly how do we change the education k through 12 with regard to

history? >> guest: that's a good question. that's knee 11th grade. that kid from phoenix, mention me on your interview when we are long dead. or we're old -- you and are going to call in that day, i'm calling from boca raton. that joke just killed in boca. crushed in boca. but he asked a really vital question. went to the history department to university of michigan, which is where i majored in history, and i said what's the biggest problem you face? the biggest problem they were facing in he history departments in the country, is when i was a kid and i wanted to be a history major, my parents said, okay you like history, go do it. the number one problem is parents when they're kid says they want to be a history major, the parents says to them, you're going to make no money, don't do it. and all across many of these liberal art ideas whether it's sociology, history, anything

else, you see parents enter saying you're not going to make money. the departments are getting decimatessed because they can't get the funding, can't get kids to sign up. when you less kids, you have lest fund can, less faculty and then we start to lose its. that's a disaster. so we have to change that. you just need to do that. so, i think the first way to start is, like, parents out there stop telling your kids they can't make money in history. that's it. i think i solved the problem. we're done. but all kidding aside, the thing that he asked is the more important question, which is how do you make it interesting? i will say that -- i saw this the national book festival. brian sells nick gave an incredible speech and he -- childrens republic el straighter, the illustrator on the harry the hard harry pots

when they did the rerelease and brian gave an incredible speech and said -- he said never read harry potter, and he read it recently and when he read it he was struck by that idea that harry and ron, they were faced with this horrible kind of dictateyear who was trying to take power and anyone who spoke against him he would a day and can anyone who days challenge him, he would attack, and use the actual system of government in the magical world. he sees power in there got the ministry of magic. grabbed power and put his thumb down and anyone who poke against him he would attack. but these kids realized that the adults weren't going to save them. the adults were never going to save them. that if you want to see change happen, the kid needed to do it themselves, and he didn't have

to mention -- didn't mention gun control or what happened in florida. or anywhere else in vegas or anywhere else. when you look, these kids that are out there today, like this 11th grader who just wrote to us, they have been raised on harry potter. they have been armed with harry potter since they were five years old. they have learned that when you see something like that, someone in power who is abusing it, that you must rise up because the step won't save its. you have to save everybody and he is like, that's how you'll you'll get freedom and power back and that hit home for me. didn't have to say the name donald trump or anyone else. it was rousing and i think that the answer to that 11th grader problem is the 11th grader. when you have a kid in 11th 11th grade saying how do i make history more interesting in he's going to writes the interesting book that will bring people back, going do write the incredible leak tour that

will -- lecture. we'll larry from that kid again. >> host: another question, president orson wallace and the role of st. elizabeth. >> guest: yeah. a good one. or son wallace is the -- i've hidden as someone who loves mystery and loves digging through things to fine that golden nugget, i have hidden more hidingen thing nikolas book than anyone will find. frock book one this, villain who is arrested, you find out what happened to him if you are close reader and you read book two one page, one sentence. it's there. or orson wallace is the president here and in this little universe and he shows up in other places. what doesn't show up is st. elizabeth and that was fantastic place. when the book opens up as we

talk about, with this nascar race with this guy who comes out and shoots at the president. always base the shooting -- spoke to many people on ronald reagan's secret service team and did a lot of research when ronald reagan shot. one assassination where the president lived but what happened to all the people who servedly, there, and as we all know until recently, the shooter of ronald reagan, john hinkly, within to st. elizabeth and st. elizabeth held this person that tried to kill the president. it is so close to where we are in downtown d.c. and i went there and was blown away by what i saw. gave me incredible as sees to it. don't want to ruin the book but the things you see and hear were based on real people that were there, and i just -- when you're building a villain, you must -- as important as your hero is in any of these thrillers you must build a real villain.

ous must build a person that is real and i remember at st. elizabeth and other institutions that would tell me for the calm people down when they angry that we've have a labyrinth outside, and they could walk through and just walking through the maze was a therapeutic endeavor. i was like, that's going in a book and all the things they do with a people who are trying to kill those we love. i became obsessed with that. so the st. elizabeth details in the book came to life. >> host: donald, elk grove village, image. thank youor waiting? >> caller: great privilege to walk to brad meltzer, booktv is a great service because history is the photo -- you should learn from off mr. systems. are you going do make any movies

or documentaries from the books he has written? my family was involved in knight's. the golden circle. >> guest: thanks, donald. a man of historically appreciate. the knights of the golden circle, when the civil war happened, and the south was falling, there was -- the civil war gold, the confederate gold was pun on a train and the train was headed out of town, and the idea was we'll put our -- we lost, we're done, put the money on the train and on this going train we'll send the money south and basically hide the money and the implication when it's ready the south will rise again. the guardians of that were supposedly the knights of the golden circle. actual him came from a group during the civil war that wanted to have -- so angry with slavery

being disrupted that they wanted to form their own golden circle, an area where slavery would be legal. that was the start. what eventually einvolved into, in the kind of story of history, is they were supposedly the guardians of the civil war gold, and the confederate gold. the great part of the story and the great mystery which we dealt with was the gold never got there. i disappeared forever. to this day nobody knows where it is and there's a story breaking right now of some guys who thought they found it and government operatives think took it out from under their hands. i'm looking into that story. but knights of the golden circle was -- had sentinels who guarded the gold and put marks on trees that told you where is what. needless to say, i thought that would be a really good group to deal with in a book and win when you reads the fifth assassin,

and the president's shadow and. if george washington aspiring the ring still exist cozy suspend it make sense the knight of the golden circle still visit. >> host: three tweets roading the ring novel. when we we get another novel. not that i'm patient -- okay, maybe i am. >> guest: i'm slow. i admit. i'm slow when it comes to writing the thrillers. not because of any disinterest but for 20 years i can go two years in time. some people go great every year, put out a book every area. if i did tom, they would good garbage. and god bless the men and women who do it but the research matters so much to me and i like spending six more months on it doing the research. so the next thriller is a nola and zig book. the next book that comes out is the first conspiracy this secret plot to kill george washington,

comes out january 8 in i am billie jean king comes out after. thatle we are working on a film and movie. i spoke win someone who we have been working with he. we have optioned and sold many booked but it's lard to make it happen where super hero is what you see. the last time you saw a john grisham movie or mary higgins clark. those have modern to television as you see with my friend michael connellly. those things noter no movies anymore. if you don't a have special effects and a cape you won't see it. those who love this genre are trying to find great partners. >> host: this tweet from ian says who are your biggest influences when its comes to writing, in particular comic books? >> the comic books, they are my biggest writing influences.

my favorite writer-0 all-tile it alan moore, who wrote watchman and other things but watchman is the pinnacle of what any book can accomplish. the book dish used re-read if every year. just actually fished my re-reading, isn't read nit three. >> and i just finish elfed. the one book i can rereads. i hoover nell gamon, and tom king, what he i doing, jeff johns, i can name them. mark miller, doing wonderful things, jason aaron, who i think are all incredible writers. and even more artists out there i think, my college room may was jed winnik, a great writer -- used to do comic book and now dodd kids backs, a book about a little row bolt who -- row boat

is as heartwarming and moving as anything you can read. love hero stories, i do. i think stan lee passes away ask the reason i love these stories is not that i love clarks would wear their underwear on the outside of their pants. what i love and what i love about stan lee and -- who created superman is the stories gave me a foundation to live by, a moral foundation. it taught me -- they gave me the pillar of my sense of right and wrong. what i loved is those characters were being good because it's good to be good. that's why we should be good. that is an incredibly powerful important lesson we lost sight of. being good for the sake of it. what we learned over the years, learned how to fight. learn that from comics. fighting and punching.

we're great at that. if your just fighting for yourself or politics or because you're a corporation and want more attention or fighting for something like that? you already lost. as far as i'm concerned. we need to get back to that idea of just being good and kind for no other reason than it's right. and what i love about those lessons that comics give us, is that we can still use that lesson every day. i know it's crazy but if you lived your life like superman, like batman, that is a good thing. in batman, what inspires me is everyday he knows he's going to fail. he he bassman because he wants to stop crime mays parents were killed. never going to do it. he's never going to stop all crime. he's never going to do the mission he starts with every day. never accomplish it but tomorrow he's going to try again. he next day try again, too. and that lesson of persistence is a powerful, beautiful one.

supermans lesson of truth, justice the american way, on to the days when i say i'm going run for president and i think them, because we look around today, you're like, mr. gosh, anybody could be it, i think it. know what my moto would be, truth, just and the american way. what we're missing today. truth, and justice, and the american way. and those lessons came to me when i was a kid. like the best things we learned when we are a kid, just as valuable as today. >> host: would you run for offers? >> guest: i stay in my world of fiction but trust me there are moment winter-weather advisory get just as mad as anyone else and say, someone needs to step forward and do better. that's the only way the world changes. >> host: what would you think of the president? >> guest: i do not believe -- i'm going to -- not to just kind of switch the subject but i just don't believe in -- it's easy to sit here and say why does he do this or that and that's unfire

do. other think is look at and go, you know what? you can't take our greatest enemies and be nighter to them than our own people. you can't. those are the things you see right now. the republicans and democrats are finally starting to realize one thing they agree on. you have to treat americans better. and i'll be the first one to say it. you got to. got to. not going them. when you start going those people, you're in the wrong side of history. that is it. we're all of us at some point in time, somewhere in this country, traced back to someone who came from elsewhere. the great hero of all of us, fake superman himself, is truly an immigrant from another planet. that comes down here. becomes a journalist. he is like -- almost the embodiment of what donald trump hates the most, an immigrant and a journalist, clark kent and superman. but what is amazing to me and --

whether it's anywhere and at any point in history, when you start generalizing about an entire group of people, an entire religion, about an entire culture, you are doing it wrong. >> host: let's go to kit in washington, dc. good afternoon, kit. hello? one more time for kit. okay, go to franklin in yonk kess, new york. >> guest: finally, new york represent. >> caller: hi there. yes, mr. meltzer, before my question i just want to address what you were just saying but the importance of being a hero and such, and i just really think that it is vital for -- especially privileged white males like myself and yourself, we have to be more honest about racism in this country. for example, everyone's talking about on the news george h.w.

bush. in the '60s he was a horrible racist. there's an article called bush and the blacks by jefferson morely in the new york review of books in 1992. bush was against the civil rights act, against blacks having the right to eat in rathers and hotels. there's -- . >> guest: let's talk about that. i was actually reading just about that and the amazing thing is, you're right about that. george bush ran against the act. he when he got into congress he voted the opposite way. to the consternation of everyone in texas who was like, you bastards, you said you were going to do something about and that he did the right thing. and i can't possibly with a straight face sit here and say, my gosh, that takes away everything else that was said and done and everyone is a saint and everyone does the right thing.

a complicated story. a complicated life. as all of ours are. if i judge he you the caller, by your worst moment, i'm not doing you a good service. you sound like a good man, fine person, but if i take that one day where you did that thing you regret and live with that, i wouldn't say that's what you are fretless of your live? i have not painted you fairly. complicated. thing you start with are the thing you are. eyeful a white kid from brooklyn, new york, you're from yonk kess, -- yonkers, and i knw when he write this have the perspective of everybody i writes about in history. so when i'm rosa parks i know where i'm going to be. can't possibly have the depth of that so i win -- when we did i am martin luther king jr., i went to john lewis himself read that book and proofed it because he was there with dr. king. when we did jane good y'all, i don't know what i it's like to

be you and harriet tubman, i went to the scholars in the country and win we died sacajawea i went to smith sewn ya native american museum. it all goes back to what we started to talk about earlier, you want to change the world, easy to say that guy did this and this woman did that. you can find something about everyone. every book i've written, every hero i've written about in the i am series, every one of them has problem. george washington owned slaves and abraham lincoln -- you can signed some political problems, racist things about gandhi. just as that caller did with gorge bush but if you're looking for perfection, you're not looking at human beings. the only thing that is perfect i god. that's it. that's my core belief and if you're look for perfect human beings you'll always be disappointed. so rather than that guy did this and that, why not, and this is

so vital, why not have a little bit more tolerance? that is what the world could use right now. >> you will be at president bush's funeral on thursday. >> guest: i will. >> host: if you were deliver a eulogy, what would you say? >> guest: i wrote a bit about him. what i would write about -- listen, i real tell you what i write that i wish someone would write about me and that is, loved his family, certainly loved sports, but he loved the idea of service. and that's the thing is. it's easy to love your family, even a crazy family, and easy of of love sports or your passion. but he dedicated his life to service. the point life foundation is still going. doesn't need to. doesn't need to do it anymore. look how many past president does nothing. just go and play golf and do their thing. doesn't need to do that but he was passionate, he believed the

changed the world through service. one person doing that changed the world. and that is what i would talk but when i talk about him, is that man who -- when you ask the secret service about dish always ask the secret service but the presidents they they don't love everyone they stroke you get them alone they'll tell you. so many president they'd don't like. all loved -- every single screes screes agent i spoke to loved george h.w. bush. and all said the same thing, asked me about my familily mobies knew me by name and characters is who you are when no one is looking. and that's who we has when no one was looking. that's what i would say about him. always that kind person, and i talk about him and world war ii. when he went -- when that plane was going down, and he said, a kid, the first thing he did is he tried to turn the plane show to slip stream didn't hit the door so that the side door could

open up so john and -- i forget the other employ could get out. two 0 men ask rathern just jumping out he turned the plane so the door would open so she air pressure wasn't on the door so they could get out first before him. and when he landed and he crashed, he's vomiting, bleed, crying, and those men died. he lived and they died. but what they gave him more than anything else was an appreciation of life, and he never forgot that. >> host: marian in by aside, new york. >> caller: wow. thank you. it's a perspective to talk to you and that is like an amazing thing that our i'm going to try to follow up with my question. the healthcare profession which is totally different than what you talk but -- the health care system in this country is in

such terrible shape with 250,000 people a year dying of hospital accidents, according to john hopkins university that was in 2017. and we pay more than any other country on the planet for health care according to the world health organization. we get the worst health care. and personally, every elder relative in my family, close to me, died of some hospital ridiculous thing, and my background is in animal science and agriculture, i see lifestock being treated -- >> we only have a minutes or two left, your question. >> caller: my question is, is it's culturalling? why isn't this addressed in the media? in entertainment? >> guest: let's talk about that. because, again, who benefits? when -- if you ask me what i think our biggest system -- i'll

keep it short. when you have a governmental system that is focused on being run by people with money, when money is the thing that runs it, who benefits tells you the answer right there? why is is so hard? because the healthcare industry is spending bilges to convince your congressmen and your congresswoman to vote in a way that favors them and know why they vote for them? they get a bigger donation than you. so if you want to solve the problem, you got to take money out of the system. if money is in the system, then those with more money are going have more influence. the moment people have more influence or systemming wrong. >> host: nancy, virginia? >> caller: good afternoon. i've been alive today because of george w. george w. bush because he signed the americans if with disables act. i'm calling to ask him to clarify his remark a how

mr. trump, whom i support, should -- couldn't treat other people better than he did americans and then turned around and talked about how anybody could -- the country was founds by immigrants and i disagree with this because the country was founded for ourselves and our posterity, so said our founding document. i wonder why he never said anything but mr. jefferson because george washington was terrific but it was jefferson that gave us the country along with mr. madisoning are worth fighting for i want to point out that it was mr. jefferson's virginia statute of religious freedom which has never been replicated on the planet. that was responsible for mr. joshua leavy buying monticello when it was falling into disrepair. >> guest: thank you, nancy. i agree with you've thomas jefferson is a favorite. we went to do do an i am thomas

jefferson. one of the greatest minds we ever had. someone who -- my gosh, owned slaves. so, again, not perfect, complicated, but incredible. but to answer your question, what i -- just to following up quickly, what i was talking about is when you see our president -- i'll do this like this. i we have lost sight of what we talking about. i was talking about if you look at how much time he has spent with -- we know who our enemies are in the world. we know that vladimir putin tried to enter fire with our election and throw its one way or the other. doesn't matter what your politicked but tried interfere. we know that saudi arabia has done some major harm and most recently to an american citizen. those are the bad guys.

not hard. they'll admit they're the bad guys and when ensee yesterday the head of russia and the head of saudi arabia getting together and laughing, i'm worried. as american citizen. make monday go, we're doing it wrong. when so much time is spent yelling here on twister and other places, about not that, you got to -- why are you not arguing but putin? not arguing but saudi arabia? why are you not going after our enemies? why are you going after americans? that -- again, not to get into why you should vote for one or the other but who benefits? who benefits? who benefits? ask that question. always find your answer. >> our conversation concludes with which has been a 12 month project at c-span2, fiction authors. we go back to nonfiction next month and that's a segway to

talk but your book only george washington warrant to ask you but the beginning of the book and the words franklin fran we must hang together or assuredly we shall all hang separately. why in your book. >> guest: a book about loyalty. when you read the first conspiracy, i'm going -- i have to save because we have so much too talk but when the book come outs but it bears repeating here. where we are as a culture. if we do no standing to we most certainly fall apart by ourselves and so i think for those -- listen, a lot of people will figure out their vote and they should judge by merits, always, not by who you like or who mikes you feel better but by the merit. this cubfully a better space? if it is, vote for you guy. if unique we are treating each other in a gay, vote for your guy. if not, don't. don't go it makes me feel good.

judge and say are we better off? for me -- the best way to close -- i'll tell you my ritual. my secret. i started by talking about all the rejection letter is got, and there were 24 people who said i shouldn't do it. i got a phone call from my agent at the time, i thought she would tell me we sold the book. and she told me wait by your phone issue think number 23 and 24 will be positive. so i waited by the phone, pick up the phone and she said to me, sorry, kido and i i-my stomach bottomed out and every day i sit down to write, i replay that moment. i preplay where i was sitting, replay the phone i was on when i pick i up, one of those see-through fine, the desk with the civil lamp on my left, the bed with nothing but a box spring and a mattress no headboard. i see the -- looking over a

terrace, concretes floor, pier station here in d.c., three doors and i say to the word, sorry, kido, and for 20 years when i writes, anything i work on, i says to the words, sorry, kiddo, sorry, kid dough, sorry, kid dough. 20 produce years now because i never want to forget what it's like to have nothing, never want to ever not be thankful for what i'm lucky four to talk to imaginary friend all day and certainly never, ever, ever want to think i made it. if i think i made it, i'm finished. i always want to be as young and humble a hungry as i was when i was 20 something years old. so, i'm the escape artist. i'm the escape artist. and not escaping from some magic trick. we all have the hole we're in. we have to get out. mean get out by doing something

different. trying to be kind to someone. heat how you get out of your hole. you forgive, starting with yourself. that was harry houdini's greatest gift, forgiveness. i want to si thank you to every he person who called in sent a tweet, follow us us on facebook, the invisible army people. get too sit here for 20 years because of your kindness. >> host: on twitter and web, follow you how. >> guest: at brad meltzer on twister, on affection, and go to brad meltzer.com, join in the invisible army. >> thank you for your time. good luck with the next project, come back to c-span often. we appreciate it. ...

in time >> thank you for coming. very excited to be among so many friends and strangers than c-span. it is my honor to introduce justin peters it was a correspondent for slate and the author of the idealist parents