intelligence officer, david, provides a history of the waste president have been removed from office. and on tvs afterwards program at 10:00 p.m., fox news host, tucker carlson offers his thoughts on elitism in america. we wrap up our primetime programming at 11 he reports on the opioid epidemic in america. that'll happens tonight on c-span2 booktv. forty-eight hours of nonfiction authors and books, every weekend television for serious readers. here's lindsay on the life of. >> welcome everybody. i'm on the director. i would like to welcome our guest friends of lizzie, our staff and of course, lindsay helton. we are here to discuss her new

book. which is a biography of famous u.s. journalist, marie holden. lindsay, coming to a little bit her before we start the discussion. she is -- lindsay is british and started life as an aid in america. through journalism and i remember coming across this because of her reporting from the genocide in 1994. i think you are one of the few english-language reporters there are very beginning lindsay had a very strong career in africa before she moved. she is not the international news. she has covered most of the big stories in the last 15 to 20 years. including the conflict in the middle east. she even as and china for

several years. the reason that is this book gives you an incredibly detailed and very sympathetic but at the same time, not a biography of a very famous journalist that shows the wonderful achievements of marie as a reporter in "the storyteller" but also cost. she paid in her personal life for the work that she did. we are very lucky to have with us two of marie's childhood and high school friends. and from, marie grew up as some of you may know, on long island, went to school there and started her career in journalism here and in this region, working for

publication and then for upi, for those of you who don't know what it is, it was a wire service that rivaled a two. it was a great school. the upi people were very very. they had very few resources but they managed to be inventive because of that. she eventually moved to the sunday times of london, which at that time, had just been acquired by murdoch and was a big deal in the uk. there were several others on sunday which was the tribal on the telegraph in that paper gave big splashes to foreign news stories which can't necessarily be set today. marie was a star on that newspaper. a little introduction to the talk.

the committee journalist, i know lindsay has set some of her remarks the past the context of the product risk that journalists faced. marie is exceptional. or was exceptional. she went to places when other people pulled out. look over some of this in the conversation i hope when we talk about how today, most journalists wouldn't be allowed by the security advisors to do what she did. but she did anyway. without further i do, much ask lindsay to talk a little bit about the biography. in the first thing i want to ask you, you set for me, a work and you start the point in the book where she is injured, covering a story. she came back to her her earlier

life, but i'd like to start with an incident which the marie for many people, although many of us including myself, knew her before this happened to her. the cover your of the book shows her wearing an eye patch. i'd like -- maybe you could start by telling us how that happened. >> thank you very much. marie was already famous when she lost the sight in her left eye. going to read a passage that shows how that happened. marie's eyepatch became part of her. she had one with rhinestones. then it became an emblem of her favorite. it also became an emblem of the price that she paid and sometimes the physical that she had in reconciling the brave,

famous with the eyepatch, that she felt inside. so let me just read a sort passage to tell you how this happened. how she lost her sight. she was in bad dreams for many years. but nothing prepared her for the current nightmare that chased her after she was shot. as she went to sleep, her conscious rebrand what happened. the fear and decision never resolving but the horror films. repeating. in the dream, she is lying on the ground. hearing the machine gun fire and the soldiers voices, exactly as she heard them in that night. before the moon rose over the field. these are his choices. she can stand up and shout, hoping they would see that she is there, obviously a foreigner.

she can try to crawl away, knowing they would shoot anything they see moving. or she can lie still. awaiting her fate. her decision will determine whether she lives or dies but nothing will undo what is about to happen. she cannot go back time, she push it forward. stand up, crawl away, lie still. sit up, crawl away, why stop at the choices repeat and repeat. pounding harder and louder. in real life, it was hard to figure out exactly what was happening. later she understood that was simple. the camels guiding her. into government territory, ran into a army patrol. marie stuck to the ground as the bullets went past her. back into the jungle, back to the way they had come.

she lay there for about half an hour. alone and petrified. before making a fateful decision. journalists, american journalist, she shouted. she rose with her hand up. suddenly, her eye and chest, she could barely leave. a grenade. she felt and realized that blood was trickling from her eye. she was going to die. in the desperate hope that they would stop shooting and help her, she shouted, doctor! maybe they would see that she was a civilian. they yelled at her to stand up and remove her jacket. somehow she managed to stumble, hansen they are. every time she fell, they shouted at her to get up again. in the nightmare, time freezes before the shot is fired in her life passes before her. it flickers across your mind for the old man was in the basement.

in a warm soup, she came across under a bush. the young palestinian woman, she watched die from gunshot wound. the human body, had broken down. her own body. this reruns until she likes, unrested, terrified safe in her own bed. the next night when she was lived with it all again. i think that gives you some idea of what the extremes marie went through to get the story. that's one of the reasons the book is called an extremist. she, through her work, is telling the stories of people who lives in extremist. it is important to show people what really happens in worse. she lived her own life in extremist, too. that was how i came across her.

marie was or is the person who went in further in-state longer. she was always the person who was that braver than the rest of us. she was the person who got the best story. and made the rest of us feel just a little bit ashamed. you know what i mean? >> one of the things that you said to me before we came in here, in reading the book, sometimes man in particular, were correspondent, want to read through the first half of the book and get to the gang bang in the middle. no surprise. you do not do that. who give a full picture of her life. i would like to reflect that by talking about the first half of the book with you about the young girl that grew up in a catholic family, one of five children among island. then we get the remnants -- you can her, what, how did her

upbringing affect her as an adult? what did she take from long island to these places? >> a couple of things. she was incredibly. board. she was not going to live that for the rest of her life. she was going to get out and see the world. she was also, she had a stable back rent. she loved her family. she had a great family. she was the oldest of five children. she was rebellious. it was a game they played as kids, to say there was a here at the back of their house. the game was that each kid had a branch and they would climb out. you want if you are the person who climbed out furthest. right to the end where it might break and you might fall and you might break. you can guess who was the one who always won the game.

she was a rebel. sometimes she was a rebel with a cause and the vietnam war, it was not your where she was protesting. the environment, she was always trying to do something about the environment. one of the entrance in her diaries, going to mass on sunday and her rebellion was, in her diary she said, church, mother and father know like. i thought in the rebellious girl, i could see something of the brave woman who i got to know many years later. >> absolutely. did either of you have memories of her at that time they would like to share? >> he talked about her being rebellious and knowing she was bored. small town, wanting to get out of there.

i think that's a clear memory i have. i think many of us were bored with long island and knew we were going to get out of there but she really knew it. i think you could tell, when i think back on her nose yes, she knew it then, even if she wasn't possibly fertilizing that to her friends. it took me a while longer to recognize those qualities that this was not this the place to spend my life but marie was always independent. even though we had a close knit circle of friends and were active, but you mentioned vietnam or, i remember protesting with her, arching down the town street and everything. she was always a little bit more clear-sighted, escaping high school and going to brazil. it was kind of maybe a first

step in the direction of getting out of school, a little bit early and i don't know if she finished a year early? >> yes. she went to brazil and then she didn't go back to school because she's already done it. i think one of the things that's in very important, she's a rebel. she goes out with the boys, she gets chunks and they break into people's buttons and skinny dip in the polls. the bad boyfriend. [laughter] >> they help all the fun. [laughter] >> that boyfriend said to me, when i have my time, she was reading her schoolbooks and studying. she had this mixture of adventurous, rebellious nature,

rebellion. she always studied. again, that makes her a great journalist. so many who doesn't take no for an answer, once together, but is a voice reading. >> it's going to us how you got access to these intimate experiences of marie as a young woman. >> murray kept diaries all her life. right up to just before she was killed at 56. some of these journalist notebooks, interviews of peoples and descriptions of places, but some of them were intimate about her personal life and thoughts and feelings. one of the things that when she

does something exceptional like she went to jamaica. it was very careful and detailed and lots of description. she knew when she was doing something the other journalists weren't doing. she kept it very coarse record. she left these analyst, with her last boyfriend. her will and so many times, the gave me access. one of them got the real moments for me, writing this, was when i was on white island. i went to her home and her family let me go to the basement and pull up the boxes of papers that they had there. in one of those boxes i found a little white plastic covered child diary which had been walked with a key. i couldn't find the key anywhere so i sliced through it. as i opened it, heart leapt. since marie walked it, maybe at the age of 14, nobody opened it.

this was a diary that had all of the stuff about the rebellion. she was 13 years old. a lot of everybody is wearing, shorts to haskell. i'm not sure i want to but i must. [laughter] the deep analysis of who sat next to who on the bus. which.looked at which girl and catholic year, she actually offered god her entire record collection if she would make a boy like her. it didn't work. she adored him for at least 20 pages. [laughter] you do remember -- she adored him. there's no sign that he even noticed her. she was 13. >> i remember marie as being --

i remember marie as being rebellious but also this very good framework. good family and this strong, i don't know if it's catholic but a strong idea of writing -- right and wrong for sure. that guided her in a lot of ways. she was always involved in projects and things there were always on the right of advancing things. for the college he stuff and that was kind of cutting edge at the time. she was always involved. her dad was instrument. they were a political family. her dad was an older man i think of something. there's always that political framework that she was dealing with as well. strong idea of right and on. >> on the one hand, her father was a star for her.

she needed to rebel against him. he was very progressive, but not at all in the family. he was a patriarch. he didn't like his little girl doing some of the things his little girl was doing. they clashed very early on. his death when she was 19, i think was a very significant moment in her life. she thought that she would have time to repair this relationship with her father. she never did because he died. she wrote, it was in her diary. the rest of her life would be spent trying to make her proud of him. anyway, it was. she was always trying to make her father proud of her. >> that comes across strongly in the book. if a mood out of there a little, talk about what you think motivated her to get into journalism and how she got into

journalism. >> she went to yale and at yale, she studied nonfiction writing. the great world war ii journalist who wrote a fantastic book. it is very short book. it tells the story of five people in after the bomb was dropped. it's not about weaponry and stop about high politics. it's about these people's lives in the atomic aftermath. murray's best thing, remembers marie coming out of that and going, that is what i want to do. i want to tell these big stories in the human way. she always said it was the best work -- book written. many would agree with that. that was what happened at yale. but you can't get straight into

that what you want to. she spent time freelancing and she got a job. which she liked because it was a tough guys and she liked to guys. as great journalism, you get to go in the hustlers. they shoot horses in the new york city police. people like that. she loved that. then she got a job at upi. she ended up in paris. in paris, she got a visa to libya. this was in 1986. the eve of the reagan bombing. was about to come to play and benghazi. she got to be there. it was well known, they would given to these younger and prettier the better. marie fit into that category and he was -- it was kind of you. she often tells the stories later, putting his hands on her

knee and she interviewed him on several occasions at that particular point. there was one occasion, he put out the white dress and green shoes for her. she said i'm not.where that. maria was love close. she would describe in her journal, deciding what people were in great detail. his gold cape and shoes, sometimes the great patterns, was all the crazy metals. again, in the copy that she broke but in her diary, even more, tiny details of it. this made her famous because she interviewed him and then the bombing happened and it was a huge story. marie calls it no longer

anonymous wire copy. she was the brave woman who interviewed the bad dog of the middle east. she interviewed him on the bombing. >> absolutely. with that, she leveraged that to get a job. >> at the times. in the semi times, she got to. at that point, the city in the world. she was very insecure, she was in her early 30s and she was probably sure, she was used to being a news agency journalist. suddenly, you bring out and send it off. the way we used to do things, it was very different then. now she was known for something in the newspaper.

he copy writing the same, coming out daily papers. this is one of the things that led to it. you have to do something that gets you something different. something better. in 1987, marie and tom, they were in beirut. when there was a war in the war, when a militia called it them all, passing the camp. marie and tom, the militia commanded for one minute, they would run across the no man's land into the camp. think about it. there are snipers everywhere, you are not completely sure he's told every cyber not to shoot. you've got one minute to get across this rough ground. but they did it. they landed in the camp. the camp is very famous, it was

a british surgeon called cutting. they were the only source of information for the outside world. they would be like, like sending as os messages every day. i remember always happening. there was a pass, they called it the path of death. to get food to bring back into the can. the snipers would pick them off. a woman went out and was coming back and and she was shot. the story about this, a young woman in her early 20s. a very short, marie's description of this woman, dying on the operating table.

her hair was clotted with blood. she seemed younger that she had been cleaned. her body was soft and shapely. she wore two tiny gold earrings. someone opened her sister and cleaned out the and full of blood and that she clinched in her pain. i think it's extraordinary description. in this incident, a huge impact on me. twenty-four hours she spent there, it was on marie. this was because the story had an impact. militia was the leader, father of the current leader.

he could be pressure. in those days, it is important newspaper. within three days, the siege had been lifted. that was partly because of the story, marie's copy. the image of the young woman lying there, her life, never left her. it reminded her of cap. the earrings, that she had given her younger sister. she would talk about the day in the camp. in about the horror and fear she saw amongst the palestinians there. even if it made a difference, she had the time to get right into the middle of whatever situation she was reporting on. the variation on the famous photographer, robert, if your pictures are good enough, you are not close enough. other journalists might remain at the murders. biting for safety but not maria. she would get up close. she would not write about herself. her journalism would be distinguished about her personal expense. i think that story and that young woman was tremendously

influential. that was a commitment that she felt the victims of war, that piece wasn't titled the war on women. it was not about the politics in the big picture. it was about a war on women in her story had an impact. >> one of the things that she had to battle, and a male work, you would know this, coming up to this. did she bring a different sensibility? did she bring something to the reporting? a lot of male colleagues at the time, were into the hardware, the strategy, or into what we call the bank bank of it all. i'm not necessarily the story of one individual person. >> sometimes it's hard to know what defines somebody's approach to reporting based on gender. certainly, marie was one of the

boys. she could drink the boys under the table. that was very useful. the reason she got so many uses, she had the stamina to drink whiskey and smoked cigarettes until 3:00 a.m. with his aides. right after night after night. that's what she did. they loved female company so that was about being one of the boys but also being a woman. it helped. she was not very interested whether it was g72. she believed very strongly that reporting wars about people. about people's lives. actually no mail correspondence nowadays, who would agree with marie. she also wrote a piece, she was celebrated for her reporting there.

in 1999, there was a referendum, the dependence and indonesia, then the militia sponsored by the indonesian government, started to run rampage around the island. people fled to the un compound. marie was in the un compound. it became more and more dangerous. they pulled the marie's -- they pulled the journalist out and she was left with two journalists. there's a funny story about this because she didn't consult her foreign before. that was my, she said she called him afterwards and said, by the way, i am staying. the others were gone, it was just a story. one of the men gone, she said, they've all left. i guess they don't like men like the use two.

it's such a marie can't meant. i happened to know there were journalists who happened to be men who got into the hills that they were in. they were just as brave to stay in the compound. but that's not one of marie's good stories. she was, they also state as volunteers. marie was one of the few people. it was a brave brave thing to do. she was celebrated when she came out. she wrote a piece which was entitled, encourage has an agenda. she said, i couldn't leave because i showed these people food and rice. i thought it would be abandoning them. i couldn't do it. she didn't feel that her bravery had anything to do with her gender. she didn't feel reporting on it. one of the story, marie as she

was corresponding, joyce had lace, silk underwear underneath. that was marie. she managed to get back to the hotel at some point after the end of the story. she abandoned, and ran to the compound. she found much to her amazement, the guerrillas had visited her underwear. it was still there. >> the impact she had, i remember the time of her death, one of the things that was quoted, from a speech, i think she gave the journalist, she talked about bearing witness. could you elaborate on what she meant by bearing witness?

>> every year now we have a service to commemorate journalists who lost their lives. i was 2010, the first year we had it. one of the memories i have of their, marie. she was there in her tight, short cocktail dress that was slightly too short for church. in her eye patch and glasses to read. >> she mulled over, what is bravery and what is this. we have to take risks but sometimes we are taking risks also for other people. like the local journalist and who we work with, what is our responsibility? also saying that the nature of war doesn't change. it's still about fixings and

conscripts. in trying to survive in the women and children, she doesn't even know how the people interested in you and looking and so on. that's not what it's about. it's about what happened on the ground. that is what she meant by bearing witness. you have to be there. if you as a journalist, or not there, then you are not bearing witness and not really telling the story that i witness reporting is where it's at. that was marie's huge strength. that was why she was killed. >> before we get on to that, a couple of more questions. you knew marie in the later half of her life. but in researching and in writing this book, with the axis of materials you have, your feelings toward marie, getting to know her as an individual?

>> in researching this book, when i got so angry with her. i got so angry with her, she was a stepmother at one point in her life and she was not a responsible stepmother. the story about when she left her daughter at the party. that was the point where i had to go through a walk. how could you do that? i was serious. there were other points where i couldn't work out what was, i was desperate to call her and say, what really happened? that's when i missed it. i thought, oh my goodness, you can't believe what happened. come over, let's have a drink. but i suppose the thing that i didn't understand completely was how reliable she was. i knew her as a friend on the road. i like to think of it as a -- of course i saw her trunk.

as i heard from a couple of times. i didn't realize how big a problem alcohol was for her. also, i knew she suffered from posttraumatic stress disorder but the extent of it, i didn't know. i think it comes down to this. people often ask journalists like me who cover conflict, how difficult is it to be other in these situations in syria or wherever you come home. there is an adjustment. before me, i don't think that was the real issue. she loved life in london. very supportive circle of friends, female friends. it was the image of her self. in the beginning, very much interested in the eyepatch. then times were she didn't feel like that person. she felt for noble and shaky and frightened.

i think losing the site in her i meant she had to face up to the fertility of her body. it's a long time to say -- face up to the agility in her mind. >> one final question. you mentioned syria. a big part of the book. it just came out about her. she went back, having gone into homes, she had a story, she started to out of the journalist but she went back. why did she go back? >> this is really why i wrote the book. in 2012, marie and i both, we had supper. there were four of us, marie myself, neil and we were discussing being smuggled into syria. to report on this in clave.

too dangerous. marie said, anyway, it's what we do. so she went. with her photographer. this was a really difficult journey, people smuggler to people smuggler. having to crawl through storm drains like sewer, having to call like this with a bent over -- physically, i don't think i could have done it. they get in, she goes to the widow's basement. the point was, the only people in this in paris, she wrote the story about with her facebook, the women and children were sheltered. she gave the life to the officials. she went to the clinic which was, they were hanging containers and surgery on wounded people. with no antiseptic. you got to leave. they left.

she went and wrote the story with incredible story. everybody assumes, she got an amazing story. the next i heard, she was back in. she was back in? and i got a message from her. i wisest move, but it's worth it. the story holds to it. i called her and she wanted to go on cnn, but i called her and i said, what are you doing? why did you go back and? she said, it's the worst we've ever seen. i said, okay, i know. she said i don't have one, we are working on it now. it hours later she was killed. she went back and because she was totally committed to the story and i think she felt she was abandoning the people.

she refused to abandon these people. she felt guilty that she was abandoning them. you can say that that was when you are blowing a line between yourself and the people you are reporting on. if i say it was a mistake, she was killed. but that was the point where marie stepped up and aligned. >> i think it's a good point. to invite guests and my colleagues to ask questions. we do have a microphone. so please take the microphone. >> you have questions? month. >> there's a few in the back. >> one thing you mentioned, the freedom and challenge of

reporting for sunday paper. this drive to get what's not being reported in the daily news. how does that compare or how is it expanded in the modern news environment where it is so fast published? what dangers does that mean for the lancers? >> that brings us to an event talking about. marie knew the story couldn't hold until sunday. so she did this. that enabled her and forces her to set the signal. they knew, they were trying to find a journalist and marie, for us, according to the sectors, there's a court case. a civil case in this country. with the help of the committee

for justice and accountability. it does this kind of nonprofit work. they have to, that is combined with on the ground, what led to her death. she was targeted. there's one example of the danger. i think that it's changing all the time in journalism. yet so many short trip things on lines. appetite too much longer form stuff as well. it's not going to be the sunday. as it was in marie's day. but certainly, with the change in the landscape, and new pape papers, not making so much money anymore because they don't get advertising closing down the bureau. that means the kind of reporting memory was doing, is not being done by shootouts.

the have insurance, they don't necessarily have equipment and they don't have paid properly. this is where protecting journalist comes in. it's helping freelance officers. helping with risk assessments and training and with many things that freelancers in dangerous places need on the ground. the other point, increasingly, people reporting their own stories. they are reporting syria. we talk about marie's death and there are several others have been killed in the war in syria. more than 100 syrian have been killed. that was important to remember. >> glad you wasted that because we are working with freelancers

and in the year that maria was killed, there were other deaths that happened. i see some other hands. >> when you are talking about maria's decision to go back, maybe think back to what you said earlier in 1987 when she was in lebanon and she was covering the story -- >> take the microphone. >> appreciate it. when she was in lebanon and covering this feature of the camp and one of the things she was most proud of was a couple of days after that story, it led to the siege because they were backed up at the time.

do you think in your reporting's of this book, that was somethi something, the possibility of a similar outcome that motivated her to go back? is that something more generally, you think continued to motivate her reporting since then throughout her career? >> she wanted to have an impact and i think one of the things that you see in the book is how much less of an impact the kind of reporting she was doing had the duration of her life. this is something which is really significant for all of us as journalist doing this kind of work. the day when the sunday times was half an impact are long gone. this is all sorts of reasons. we really don't care.

the whole international political situation has changed. the difference, the plethora of media now, you have these same important of being put on things. i suppose to come to that i'm a i feel that, it has been noticeable in syria. wrapped the attention for a while never but he was recognizing the and he continued with the war exactly as he had always done. but now we have an example which is the killing of democracy. it's been so shocking that it had an impact. now, the senate here, suddenly noticed that your country and supporting the saudi's in this brutal, vicious, cruel war in yemen. even in britain, there are some

stirrings and that is because of the death of jamal khashoggi. i find that really interesting because i was despaired of any of our work having impact. now we have to this strange irony of the death of this journalist. what you feel about that? >> i feel sad in a way because there is tremendous reporting on what's going on in yemen. it's just like water off a ducks back. the administration is concerned but the one journalist had be strenuous. strangle. i find it sad. >> we have a lot of questions. i'm going to go off of his question. a lot of the work we've been doing in syria, with freelancers, what happened in syria, hearing you talk about her getting to run across the

field, thinking about getting up and saying i'm a western realtor, do you think she thought that perhaps, i was going to be a shield in syria? she was sort of her superpower sort of? >> i don't think, no, i don't think that marie felt that because she was a corner that she would have any protection. >> -- >> were talking about artillery strengths. coming in every few seconds of that point. she thought that it would be any protection. not only was it not a production but it suggests it was what made her a target. >> that's funny because since

then, if it's in with this bigger picture, in this 70s and 80s, the american journalist, a lot of conflict areas was a form of protection. and also access, as you said, that flipped on its head. instead of being a shield, she became a target. that's the question now for most journalists. >> in a sense, there are many different things in this book. when asked what it's about, is it about war and love and, but far from that, it's about the journalism and what happening in journalism. it goes from being an american journalist to foreign to protection to making you a target met their life. >> it's not really a follow-up but i have another question.

i wondered how, if you could talk more about how she influenced the generation of female reporters, there's the marie colvin network of journalists and i just wondered how her work has been influenced so many other female journalists particularly. >> she was influential in the sense that when marie started to work for the sunday times, she had come from services with a -- why am telling the story. the new york times, you would never write, i saw -- you take off this reporter saw a reporter saw. marie didn't do that. she used it personalized. she was recognize her self, or -- she never did that. i saw this. this man told me this. she put herself in the story.

this is a very commonplace now. everybody does that now. but they didn't when marie started to do it. that is also this issue of learning the boundaries. there was an article written in 2002. about this new kind of journalism headed by marie. it was about not remaining in the refugee camps to interview refugees by going to the place where the refugees were coming from. i think that influenced a lot of other analysts, men and women. but certainly, marie had her. she is to carry around a copy of the basin more. it's a -- an article. i like to think that the question of work.

i like to think of young females caring that around on the front line. she was very kind to young journalists. men and women as well. in the recession, came across so many in libya, they were freelance. they said marie let me share her room. mary gave me some -- gave me money. marie left this water and she said, with the sunday times. that was my pick brick. murray, that's what she did. the things that she did, we founded a small project in her memory called the network. we are trying to provide support that helps young female journalists in the arab world. it's often a lot of obstacles.

docketing the interesting assignments, family objecting to you doing this kind of work at all. docketing training, marketing safety. it's a projected in a way, and mental shares, safety training, we do counseling and i like to think that marie like that project in her name. trying to help this new generation that is coming up, particularly in the middle east. >> any other questions? >> thank you. the story for article of journalism. marie's story of a specific time that we will be seeing different type of stories but this

charismatic in a way their telling stories and handling stories is kind of fading. >> i think there's a danger of always thinking that it's one's own generation which is most exciting. my generation is the most exciting. [laughter] looking back on a generation and seeing those people as having an incredible character. these young people think. i'm aware of that danger. however, i think that marie is one of the reason marie was recognized she does represent this particular time. as a time of intervention. it was a time when there was huge interest in the war, far a force which we know little. it was huge interest in all of that.

now, western countries are retreating from the world. that isn't the same amount of interest. it's the kind of thing that marie did. there's a dissolution because in the end, the reporting did not make a difference. marie can cite a particular case, it would be one, and another. others know, believed and i believe that even if he does make a difference, it's the worst pain. he didn't know before you. yes, she did know is going up. marie told you what's going on. that to me, is the significance of it. more on my ballot, people get blood between opinion and reporting and so much do think

that the era of the great ones buckling old, brave marie colvin journalist who gave the best part of london, and the politicians and the poets and think that there is -- >> i would have to disagree. >> oh, good. >> as long as there's going to be conflict, there's going to be some of the is. into the tale. i think it's a bit of, it's commonplace to have the opinion about, in whatever field. the whatever. there's always someone down the road on that tradition. i don't know if this is a kind of curious that marie was more

willing to put her self in harm's way, later in life after the eyepatch and i know she wanted to have children. she didn't have children. she didn't have a relationship, colors and problem whatever. do think a lot of those personal issues allowed her to put herself, to care less about her own personal safety? >> i think it's a good question. i think there are many people on the sunday times, who think she should be taken off the road. after she lost the site in her eye. they feel that she was too vulnerable and she was disabled. marie did not want to do that. she defined herself by the work she did.

i think most of us who do that kind of reporting, to find -- define ourselves by what we do and many struggled to get that balance if you have a happy home life, becomes more difficult to maintain the balance. that could certainly be for marie. so yes, arguably, she had judgment impaired. she didn't care enough but i certainly don't think she had any kind of death wish. i don't think she thought she was going to die because she sent me an e-mail before she went back in. asking for the contact for iran. so she was sitting there, thinking about the next trip. so i know she didn't think going to go, going to die. i know she didn't think that.

she did not care enough about her life. her safety. again, that's another thing about extremist. that's about the extremes in her personal life as well. >> any other questions? >> go ahead. >> i do question, a little bit about the last one. you alluded to it but not so much detail. the high personal cost of the profession to marie. i wonder how much of that you would say was inherent in the profession and how much of it was her. what that would mean for your advice to the younger enough journalists going into this

profession. >> the road to form part correspondence, broken marriages and neglected children. i think that doesn't make any difference to a man or a woman there. it is very difficult to keep her relationship going and that's just how it is. ... >> and she looks at me and she

says lindsay and i go to bars and we drink. [laughter] but of course she drank far too much. i think people are much more conscious of that now than they were and there is much more. also it's not about the stigma. in my early days you would nodded minute it was a sign of weakness. they're just going to think i'm a stupid girl. that has really changed.

than to have hotlines and it's understood you don't have to tell your manager necessarily it is a very different atmosphere around that that you don't necessarily have access to organizations that we should try to help them on that. >> the legacy obviously rest that she went further than most to get the story and

because your book is literature that journalist are likely to read, just by the means by which it is not necessarily advised four journalist so how did you manage to make the importance of her work and not condone the ways she had access crack. >> it is a good question and it is difficult because it is a little bit of all of us wishes we were marie. people keep asking if i would write a memoir. and then to show the part one

- - the price that they paid for this. so that would be clear and yes she is a heroin but she is flawed which makes her great to write about. and because of that nature. with the documentary called under the wire than those that survived the mortar attack so it is an incredible documentary and i felt very strongly to write about her life and the place that she came from how funny she was

and how witty she was and the whole person. and i hoped that in writing about marie that in some way i could bring her back to life. >> from my point of view you did just that that with all the tragedy and the conflict , what you have done is brought out the funny side so thank you. congratulations on a wonderful piece of work. and all of our colleagues but thank you to lindsay. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] hi everyone. i am a member of politics and prose i want to welcome you this afternoon just a few housekeeping notes please take a moment to silence your cell phone take pictures but do so silently we have not only our own filming today