[inaudible conversations] . >> good morning. thank you for braving the security. more will be coming in the back if you would like to move forward that would make it easier for us to accommodate the crowd that is still waiting in line. i am jane harman president and ceo of the wilson center and absolutely delighted to preside over this event entitled president carter, the white house years. i have been carrying this book around as a workout. [laughter] once you finish reading it cancel your gym membership just to walk around carrying

it measured against other biographies just on size alone but this isn't just a book it is a deep dive into what a presidency means written by someone who was there to see it all certainly i was there but still remembers far more details than i ever could because i was so excited to get the book and have this discussion in depth today. every time i saw him in the white house over 40 years ago everywhere all the time 5000 pages of notes on a yellow pad and a presidential biography ever prepared by someone so well prepared.

but i'm not surprised. i met stu the summer of 1964 when we sat next to each other at the young democrats of america here in washington i won't reveal our ages then or now that he is older. [laughter] we overlapped at law school his son's name is brian and worked across each other from the carter white house most of the panelist were also there so this is a lovely reunion and a number of others from the carter administration so i thought i would ought ask our friends to stand up for a moment. [applause] pretty impressive he packed the audience he has a firm international practice focusing on national trade

problems of businesses he was chief white house domestic policy advisor to carter and us ambassador and deputy secretary of treasury during the carter administration but of course, most important was your time as a scholar at the wilson center in 2001 when you researched and wrote a book called imperfect justice in the unfinished business of world war ii. thank you for coming here to write it. seriously. joining stew on the panel former deputy national security adviser to carter former us ambassado ambassador, former deputy assistant for domestic affairs to president carter former legislative council to walter mondale member of nsc staff us

ambassador to nato in a foreign policy advisor to senator kennedy. professor at the university of maryland national center child abuse and neglect. so reading blurbs from commentators about this book i was moved by several alan greenspan said president carter anticipated many of the programs his successor ronald reagan embraced he fostered major deregulation of transportation of communication and banking most importantly paul volker one of the most committed to the chairmanship of the federal reserve to succeed a balanced

view of the carter presidency and david ignatius called carter a small decent and unlucky man that hasn't been covered but lasted for decades so when you write the book about post- presidency has a minimum 8000 pages. [laughter] this morning he will get 15 minutes of opening comments

followed by the panel which i will moderate then we go to your questions our goal is to tease out the successes and disappointments of a hard-working president that i want to echo in the prologue of the book she hopes this book will help reframe the carter presidency. soda why please welcome wilson center scholar. [applause] . >> thank you for your friendship and hosting this and thank you to all of you for coming jimmy carter's political idol was harry truman and he placed truman's famous slogan on his oval office desk the buck stops here. both presidents left office highly unpopular truman is

remembered much more for his achievements than his faults and i hope my book will lead to a similar reassessment of jimmy carter as president not simply as a widely admired former president. my thesis is he was one of the most successful one term presidents in american history and indeed accomplished more than many into terms. to objective surveys indicate that almost 70 percent of all his legislative proposals were passed by congress just under the legendary percentage walter mondale summed up his presidency to say we tell the truth and we obey the law and we kept the peace but some

dotted by several eyes of inflation, iran, and experience by he and the georgia mafia and interparty warfare with the kennedy wing of the democratic party. i do not gloss over any of these problems i address them directly. but with no eyewitnesses likely to be around the next 20 years and with that in the level image of his administration as a failure, i wanted to write a book that demonstrated these problems should not obscure the major successes he achieved that are long-lasting making the country in the world a better

place and the authenticity of the book is based on the fact that i wrote over 5000 pages of contemporaneous notes housed in the library of congress of every meeting and every phone call amplified by 350 interview interviews, five with him and i was not selective i interviewed people who were favorable and unfavorable republicans and democrats to give a complete picture about the cause of his nature provides a unique view of this president and of any presidency and the hothouse atmosphere of working in the white house. so let me briefly share some of the accomplishments and how they occurred on the domestic side, he laid the foundation for three major energy bills and four years for the energy

security we enjoy today regulating the price of natural gas and crude oil for maximum production putting conservation on the nation's agenda for the first time. and inaugurating the era of clean energy was solar and wind power and those compromises were appropriately with two conservative republican senators and democratic house members in the room of the white house where fdr followed the course of world war ii a great consumer champion and advocate to oversee industry like tar one - - "star wars" trained oversee their own industries and he charged them backed up by hard earned legislation, to

transform the overregulated transportation system. he deregulated trucking, railroads and airlines in the airline industry he permitted cheaper prices, more competition, he brought air travel to the middle class and democratized it i daresay we would not have the jet blue or southwest we have today if not for regulation and he did not stop there he began the deregulation of telecommunications which opened the whole cable industry as we know it today. deregulated bank deposits so they could get full interest rates and laughingly he repealed the prohibition era of the beer industry which prevented the flow of the local craft beers which now

proliferate so widely the greatest environmental president since roosevelt doubling the size of the whole national park system and over the fierce opposition of the alaska delegation you did not want to prevent any inch from being developed from oil and gas he laid a giant map of alaska on the oval office rug got down on his hands and knees and pointed out every river and mountain ridge of the protected area. amazing senator stevens said later he knows more about that state that i do. he also inaugurated lasting value we won the election

because of watergate and he put in place a whole series of post watergate reforms for example, the 1970 ethics act regulated then and now disclosure for all public officials of assets coming in the bidding gifts if they are in office and restricting lobbying with the revolving door when they left he created the inspectors general not one week there is not an article about their reports to root out fraud, waste, and abuse he created the office of special counsel to investigate wrongdoing while in office. sound topical? he signed into law the foreign corrupt practices act which barred american companies from bribing foreign officials to get contracts and made the

most thoroughgoing reform. i was caught up incidentally in one of these reforms when a magazine did a profile saying he had a great love of tootsie rolls i got a giant sized lifetime supply from the tootsie roll company when we determined we may have exceeded the 25-dollar gift rule we wrote it a night - - a nice later one - - a nice letter but the box is empty when we got it back. i'm still trying to find the secret service agent who stole the tootsie roll's. [laughter] this southern president appointed more to public office and more minorities to

judgeships in senior positions then all 38 presidents put together. ruth bader ginsburg was asked how did you become a judge? she said because of jimmy carte carter. he also supported affirmative action to save chrysler and new york city from bankruptcy and creating the modern vice presidency of walter mondale and took what was an office of total disrepute to make it what it is today a full partner with the president after the election mondale submitted a whole raft of request access to secret documents, meetings one-on-one lectures and all were accepted and carter added on his own now permanently into the west wing politics is politics is real estate so now just yards

from the oval office and made him a full partner because he had one of his aides get the original plans of the west wing and found that his new office originally had a private bathroom which he very much wanted and he found later in a remodeling of the west wing that bathroom was moved into the national security council's office for henry kissinger mondale said they were fighting over a bathroom but you will read in some detail that this fully engaged vice president came within an eyelash of resigning or at least deciding not to be on the ticket because of all of

the resignations. >> inflation was a problem carter tried multiple plans to deal with it we inherited it. so he decided to take tough medicine in the election year over the opposition of many of us in the white house he appointed paul volcker to head the fed knowing that he was going to choke the economy squeeze inflation out raise interest rates and lead to higher unemployment the lower inflation eventually. the meeting they had in the oval office was a classic volcker as 1 foot taller 6-foot 7 inches a giant man carter describes vividly in the book how he was slouching over a couch in the oval office but he did appoint him

and let him do his job and supported that tough monetary policy without any complaints even during an election year. he was not the ultimate beneficiary because tough medicine only work during the reagan administration and this is emblematic because so much of what carter did tough decisions that had payoffs later. his foreign-policy achievements were even more significant camp david would stand as a landmark of personal diplomacy. he poured over intelligence reports and tech said .-dot to the gettysburg battlefield to demonstrate to them the cost of continued war. he borrowed the press one - - bar the press so there were no leaks during negotiations and after 13 days and nights he negotiated separately with

each like two scorpions they hardly met at all we came close to an agreement the 13th day that did not reach it he literally had his bags packed the car ordered to take him back to washington to fly back to israel carter came up with a personal touch that changed history and learned he had a grandchildren and a great love and wrote personal inscriptions to each of them have pictures of himself at camp david and personally walked them over to vague and's cabin and as he began to look through them carter saw as he described his lips quiver and his eyes teared up as a mister president i'm putting my bags down i will give it one last try and then the rest is history it's a

treaty that has lasted almost 40 years no violations. central to israel security and our national interest. the first president to put human rights at the center of foreign-policy to the right wing dictators of latin america reaching out to dissident movements cutting off their arms and to the panama canal treaty that there would be a new era of us relations. the hardest fight we had in congress was bloodied. one cost free vote that republican senator who was dead set against it and we learned through mondale he would consider switching his vote if carter would see him every two weeks to give informed policy advice and

carter said i wouldn't want to limit you to two weeks flattered him and carter never saw him as he voted for the treaty he also embraced the movement the leader of the dissident movement and save sharansky's life by his own admission that you are not a us spy that is the soft underbelly of the soviet union but joined with the hard powers and it was carter, not ragan who began the build up certainly reagan built on a but he built on carter's foundation and together to have two nuclear arms treaties and a response to the afghan invasion the carter doctrine

carter played a significant role. china china normalization and kissinger and nixon and they deserve all the credit but they would not take on the taiwan live on - - lobby they did not normalize relations but carter did and he won in another tough fight one cute story all 4-foot 11 of the leader comes into the white house and the cabinet room now thankful for diplomatic relations he wants a lowest possible tariffs of chinese good we offered to the most valued trading partners but he knew that wouldn't work if there were limits on immigration and said to the president we don't limit immigration and pushed a pad and pencil to the president

and said you put on the pad the number of chinese you would like us to send each year. 1million? 10million and the president said i will take 1 million if you take 10000 american journalist in response. [laughter] the coup day grace to the carter presidency was administered by iran's cruel radical ayatollah whose top aid by the way i interviewed. he held americans hostage 444 days in violation of every international norm while carter's support dissipated i am very frank in this chapter we made a lot of mistakes. the most significant were our intelligence failures. the cia put the shop back on the throne 19536 presidents lavish tens of billions of

dollars of the most sophisticated military equipment but yet they did not realize his domestic support was resting on quicksand and did not know that for five years he was getting cancer treatments. they did not know khomeini was sending back to tehran to stimulate a revolt against the shah. carter's most difficult decision was what to do when the hostages were taken. he made a decision telling the families i will get your loved ones back and that's my number one priority. frankly i disagreed with that we suggested we blockade the harbors to prevent them from exporting oil that carter was afraid that would risk hostages coming back in coffins a tough choice i

didn't agree but i understood it we negotiated successfully - - unsuccessfully another decision was hauled one - - holding himself up in the white house not traveling to show he was spending full-time on the hostage crisis but that gave the press the opportunity to make this the story for the whole last year cronkite ended every cbs program saying day 15250. it was a disaster the biggest disaster occurred and it was a metaphor for those that were closest to the presidency the aborted rescue effort in iran. it was highly complex a lot of bad luck but the destruction and loss of life of eight americans became a signature

of what happened largely not because there were not enough helicopters but we had not had inter- military service cooperation at that point but later we created that which took osama bin laden and others but if there was one positive thing to come out of iran other than the hostages but we got 50000 iranian jews out of iran except those who were in the united states studying through a very clever reinterpretation of the visa law. and that's a lesson for the dreamers. so to conclude, we lost overwhelmingly in 80 but yet carter did not brewed from the very first day of the election he said let's make this the

most successful outgoing hostages. and in one last gesture of ted kennedy who had no reason he wanted steve breyer appointed to a vacancy in the first circuit i went to see carter knowing he wouldn't do it he said steve is first rate it is a tribute to the judiciary and that's what got them on the first circuit and then ultimately the supreme court. my book is not just about policy but people i have very interesting profiles i mentioned only two miss lillian was his inspiration who became a registered nurse tended to blacks and white patients in

the rural south when it was highly unpopular and entered the peace corps and as a great defender of her son a new york reporter quizzed her on the central thesis of the campaign and she said certainly you know, that your son must have lied and she said you are right he told white lies all the time. the reporter said what do you mean by a white lie she said remember how we want to have you here? that was a white lie so i saw rosalynn carter going from a shy campaigner that could barely speak on the stump to an accomplished first lady and the powerful chairman of the committee son of the governor of louisiana and later chief of staff, uncle earl called

all the parish leaders just before the tough reelection and said boys get the vote out for me and he promised lavishly buildings and bridges and new roads and when he wanted they all came lining up ready to be paid but there wasn't enough money in the treasury to even begin to pay them so he saw uncle earl what must i tell the parish leaders? he said russell tell them your uncle earl lied and russell was a transformational figure he can understand why this southerner and president wouldn't do the same jimmy carter was the principal player and i describe him in great detail coming from a gnat infested 500 person with his campaigning understanding

the times and wanting honest government after watergate a smile as broad as the mississippi and all things to all people put together an improbable and unstable coalition of conservative southern whites anxious to have one of their own in the white house and african-american african-americans, labo african-americans, labor, workis people and it was inherently unstable he was the first new democrat fiscally conservative socially liberal on poverty and race issues nationalist and populace he was criticized looking at the notes from the cabinet for over attention to

detail reading too many appendices but yet i've wondered there is a worse way to govern than three by five cards he had an odd view of politics he was a ferocious campaigner and did what he needed to do to get elected then he would park politics at the office door if he takes a recommendation site was good for the country it was his strength and his weakness he could attack regardless of consequences but also showing the president is not only the commander in chief the politician in chief he was a centrist to liberal and too conservative for the liberals going deeper into the white house than any other presidential biography you understand the pressures and conflicting demands to make

decisions when there are no good options i'm not recommending them for a place on rushmore but i am suggesting he belongs in the foot how - - in the foothills with presidents who have done great things for their country and for the world and that the principal argument of my book. think you. [applause] . >> well done my friend and the reference to correcting typos were the cabinet meetings that was one of my jobs of the two years i spent in the white house and carter would read them and correct my spelling and say at least he read 300 pages a day which is just an astounding amount of work when

you think about it giving the other pressures. want to ask everybody else a question so if the goal of the book of this gigantic book is to reframe the carter presidency to help people who didn't know him or didn't understand him think about the deficits how do you do that? putting information out won't necessarily make the sale in written form so ending with our historian based on the experience that each panelist had in the white house, you mentioned what suggestions they had looking back on their time? they would help you achieve this goal so let's start with

david and foreign-policy you are on the nfc who continued active as we know through six months ago and made mayor many appearances here. taking a couple of the hard issues pick what you want to pick looking back how can they be explained of then and now to make the sale that carter did the right thing and was a good president? . >> i would like to focus on the hostage rescue. as you point out it really isn't understood why it failed there was a big study by the pentagon but i would like to take you back to the last meeting we had with the

secretary france and the joint chiefs and they said i want you to ask two questions and that was the qualification for my job. [laughter] i'm in the process of asking these questions that a note is handed to me and it said the real operation is the helicopters i didn't know what that meant and i said what about the helicopters? he said we have taken care of that problem. so what was the problem?

. >> the navy refused any aircraft carriers in the gulf so as a result we had to do a rescue from the indian ocean. unfortunately we had no attack helicopters that could fly that far. so they decided to use to have tremendous rage one - - range but the problem was several fold they were lifers 40 or 50 years old and they had not signed up for an assault they were smoking and drinking will be sold to - - solved it with marine helicopter pilots and

they will be great. but they really didn't know how to fly these helicopters and as a result one went to little light and another got lost. a third through his flak jacket on top of the air conditioner for the engine and burned it up. finally in a very sad case one of them decided to abort the mission and flew into one of the c-130s that was fuel of admonition and fuel and a lot of people lost their lives. i mention this it's twofold but the navy refused to put their aircraft carriers in the gulf. that could have been dangerous

except when the first gulf war in iraq and kuwait they drove those aircraft carriers right into the gulf and would not be beaten by the air force and then to be explored very much and is deathly afraid to have the aircraft carrier song particularly of on the soul of some kind.

>> but domestic policy that wilson who was president 100 years ago had a really good first term based on his success of domestic policy and the federal reserve, they all passed on wilson's watch. very few people remember that what many think is the ideal focused international policy. some think it was successful that many don't and at the end of the presidency wilson was incapacitated and had a terrible record on race and wasn't good on women our own phd president i love it that we celebrate the meshing of

scholarship and policy but looking at domestic policy achievements, what insights do you have? how do you frame that in a way people will notice? . >> but american politics is almost completely tied up and the short-term view even though ford lost there was a lot to be said for the ford presidency. then someday in the future that president grant people in

your business will return but one thing that the carter administration made what happened in terms of the domestic program? and jim here may be a failure of leadership that may be a failure of scholarship in the house and senate thought carter was too conservative. carter wasn't wrong, they were. i work for ten years in the senate and i could tell you the united states congress did not believe their fortunes were tied in any way to the

presidents of either political party because in their experience it doesn't happen. so there was a bloodbath in the senate like gaylord nason one - - nelson. and because we all believe they are closely tied they have a degree of followers. and dad is true every succeeding president as students of congress will come to appreciat appreciate.

>> i will nudge you a little and then to put human rights on the map something that everybody cares about could you make comments about that that is a bright spot. >> and then to reframe the presidency. and the memoirs it is important and a critical building block and you just touched on something of human rights that people looking

back today understanding a couple of things going forward and number one is character. it is impossible to look at what is happening today without seeing a blow that comes from jimmy carter and you cannot separate the post presidency from the presidency as a man of integrity and human rights the irony is that kissinger was tailored for being willing not taking human rights seriously enough and to

worry about this and this is important but carter comes in ditching that the previous administration didn't care about human rights but all the president does is care about human rights. in america's world so what is the interest of the united states and what it is the character and the values and then to stay in the world not so much that we feared but what we believed in but to have a president in modern times since lincoln jimmy carter said these things we stand for and when you see the

unraveling, carter was working on human rights, country by country turning to the hungarians was do what we can for solidarity. and then in the middle east as well the great strategic achievement think how much worse it would be today if not for the egypt israel peace treaty which through egypt out of the military balance from israel and ended the rift of soviet confrontation and then to say part human rights and

peace for israel and a palestinian issue still hasn't happened but on the security of the middle east began under carter after the fluff and the nonsense to the rub the sheep of history. >> on that happy note bob just mentioned the robust post presidency of carter ten times longer than his presidency, can we isolate the white house? does it all mesh together? when people look back at him he is still alive and taking

but is the post presidency helping him? how do you put this together? . >> i think your question raises an important question that stu made at the end. that jimmy carter was a good man and a pretty good president and the way we want to address bus success or lack of success is on the presidency and to your other question to get noticed and stu said he's the first new

democrat and was too liberal for the conservatives and too conservative for the liberals but to make a friendly amendment to that. sue was talking about the congress and not for the liberals but i am one of those who had the luxury of reading and through the book you mentioned the members of congress in the senate and the house as well they thought they were there forever they don't need to compromise with the president and the last point is if ted kennedy was

perfectly happy to be a failed presidency and it was a little shocking. so between me and election day do they recognize the value is what i want to stay from personality or do they go all the way left? and if they go so far left. . >> we have half an hour for your questions i recognize half of this audience you better ask good questions one of those that you listed for interparty warfare is what i want to focus on i think

major energy bill and welfare reform and tax reform and all

sorts of things plus the panama canal it overloaded the circuits so it always seem to palin comparison so when ford came into office also in reaction to nixon decided he didn't want to chief of staff and for the first couple of months it was chaotic and a disaster. at the going away party after we beat them, dick cheney later when he had to chief of staff he adopted the model that carter did call the president is at the center six or eight aides have equal access with nobody in between so at the going away party, they gave cheney a

mounted bicycle wheel with broken spurs and he left it in the office tuesday do not adopt this theory you need to chief of staff you need a lot of advice but this was one of them. for that experience is a huge difference we caught up with that but those initial images are very hard to reverse. >> 30 minutes please identify yourself not everybody knows yo you. stand up. >> thank you. retired diplomat how does it reconcile carter attention to detail with his apparent lack or insufficient attention to

detail with the iran hostage rescue operation? mentioning equipment and logistics not to mention the navy? . >> everybody doesn't need to answer every question. >> the way the whole thing was put together there was a special working group and they came up with some pretty bizarre ideas one was that they would seize an airfield which is only a few miles from the major city and then keep it for two or three days it was such a crazy idea it's difficult to say that he also

had a lot of respect in the military a lot of respect so therefore it wasn't a big book of a plan it wasn't like that. not like the pentagon put together these were planned so i think it was difficult for him to do that. >> but your question is very important in a deal within the book. i think it resulted from several things this was one instance where he felt they are the military experts maybe i went to the naval academy and was a submarine officer but i have to depend on the number two at a critical meeting he asked the military including the head joint chiefs of staff do we have

enough helicopters? what if some don't work? he didn't ask what kind but do we have enough? they said one and carter ordered another so actually there were eight when six was the minimum. he built that in. and third vance was dubious from the start he was secretary of the army in the kennedy johnson administration and carter turned to me and he said mister president the military will never say they can do something they never will say they can't so i think he relied on the details for the military he did not want to micromanage he was accused of that in the one place he did was to add another helicopter. >> i want to add one word i

didn't know the rescue mission there were at least two problems number one all the military wanted to be engaged this is only had happened in the administration instead of assigning it to one service you do one thing and second when my colleague and i found out what was done we both concluded it was a dumb idea from the beginning. >> it was less the number of helicopters than the lack of practice why didn't they practice? they told me if they were afraid if they did then the press would learn about it. so for different military services none of whom had worked together on any type of project like this. >> i want to add something.

>> no. no. [laughter] . >> pbs is doing a major documentary on this. >> okay. . >> this question is for the ambassador as part of the american diaspora with the failure to support the shaw enough because of the iranians that the downfall of the shaw was inevitable? . >> that's a very good question. >> i mention all the mistakes made in the iran one was that not supporting the shaw enough? no. we did not focus on him enough on the early stages by camp david and the erosion was not

pointed out to him the cia director said we let him down now the question is what more could they have done? clearly we cannot intervene militarily we were giving other support i don't think there was anything that could have been done to save them any more than eisenhower could be blamed for castro taking over in cuba. >> and economic question as you know, i wrote a book which basically gives carter a huge amount of credit to deregulate the economy opening the economy i don't call it deregulation i think that is really what broke the back of inflation and i wonder why you give so much credit to voelker? i wouldn't give that much to

voelker. >> first of all, i have a very large chapter on competition and the fact like trucking for example, it could not offer truck that had a whole cargo at point a to return and load it to go back to home base crazy stuff like that so d regulation injected more competition lower prices lower fares for airlines and so forth but that only materialized again much later but second i do believe paul that even with that, we would not have broken psychology the psychological impact of wage and price barrel spiral was so

built-in starting with nixon and something that people don't understand we surely didn't do a great job dealing with inflation but it was 8 percent at the time of the iranian revolution and before the hostages were taken we lost 5 million barrels per day of oil production in the stock market went crazy in a 12 month period the price of crude oil doubled and that sent inflation into double digit range nixon had the same thing how did he deal with that he put price controls on knowing that would get them through the election than the natural and portion places on - - prices came through.

somebody had to change the psychology and he let voelker do that. >> a fabulous answer. >> a classmate and partner during the week we have the leaders of france and germany it seems appropriate to ask about relations with nato you haven't said much about that maybe you could say what's in the book? . >> and we have a nato ambassador here as well. >> what carter did with nato was transformational in several respects. he got them to pledge their increased defense spending by 3 percent per year a real blow to the soviet union and brush said later this is what they

walked back helmut schmidt got to accept for the first time intermediate nuclear weapons in europe without long-range capabilities but they never had those military forces and couldn't get schmidt to agree to it. third the summit which involve those countries of germany and france was like bob putnam at harvard the single most successful g7 summit ever resulting in the deregulation of troops for them agreeing to stimulate the economy with tax cuts and i have to say one humorous story bob was there policy or for five years

strauss broke the back was this and jim callahan said everybody should know he was a picture and strauss is right if you've done it you ain't bragging. >> any more comments on nato

at a time when the soviet union was ramping up its opposition to american presidents they did it not just the way we have heard but also arms control and got the salt agreement and incidentally had to bargain between the two advisers who hated the russians and then believed in the uses of diplomacy there is an item in their that he uses in the book in which carter was going to give a major speech on the soviet union and then when i saw the speech that carter made there was both speeches so he just stapled them

together but they were more coherent than they would have been but with the neutron bomb it was an accident it was a failure not carter's failure but on the part of schmidt's carter said i will not build it if you won't deploy it he's that only deploy it if the dutch do it know so that i won't build it and schmidt was a thug and carter didn't tell the truth so that gave us the experience from the missile crisis to know how to do it accurately and adequately so the soviet union understood the president was going to be firm in his support while at the same time he was doing things that eventually brought

the end of the cold war. >> it was communism floating in western europe carter really put that down as the ambassador. >> second row right here green jacket. >> i served in the commerce department and also with international trade i would like to know what you believe carter's relationship was with humphrey? it evolved during his presidency until he found out he had bladder cancer then of course, course, with the fellowship program. >> i'm glad you asked because i have a very touching descriptio description. humphrey was a traditional liberal but became one of

carter's great supporters his death really left a void so carter rescheduled the times of our weekly democratic leadership meetings so that hubert could get his cancer treatments and number two he took him into the oval office and sat him behind the chair and said you belong here. number three he helicoptered him up to camp david and humphrey told me would you believe it is the first time i've ever been here and i've been with the vice president for four years. . . . .

it's actually more of a comment and surprisingly. six years ago, a wrote a book about the senate. quentin atlee, those years want the carter years. i was surprised to find that the relationship between carter and congress which started out rather badly, actually changed in the three years, the last three years so that carter didn't like congress, he thought of the georgia legislature coming in but he brewed to understand that wasn't the case. he had members of congress and particularly the senate, who are capable of stepping up to important domestic and foreign policy issues.

briefly, four years ago in 1978, if you look at one year, there were more accomplishments in domestic and foreign policy, one after another that stands the test of time from the pinal to saving to new york to the energy package and the other thing that that congress, which is a little unusual, people like jackson, jackson didn't like carter. he hated him in a lot of ways. he fought him but he worked with them on energy everyday. three years. your book is a great book. i'm going to disagree with him a bit. the following into the old notion that he didn't get along with congress and at the beginning we didn't but after that, we did. a number of things past which was so difficult. energy, deregulation in panama. remarkable.

i want to tell you something in terms of the spirit with europe. why did we win the panama canal? you can't believe how difficult it was to get two thirds of the senate to support something when the american people that we were giving away something we owned to panama. it was hand to hand combat. he contacted every single one of the hundred centers. what i didn't tell you is what would never happen today. we won that because bird supported it. but also, a man very short in stature, but a great man in terms of his actual accomplishments, howard baker. howard was the minority leader, republican minority leader in the senate. he supported the panama canal treaty knowing it would undo his

run for the presidency in the future. he did it because he thought it was right for the country. he would never have one without howard. in this era of supreme polarization, howard baker stands today as one of john kennedy's profiles. >> remember -- >> wait for a microphone. >> triad, why should we give back the canal after all we stole it for? [laughter] baker said, mr. president, you only get one of these. he wanted him, are pretty going to the well once. two quick points. we had the great lead our team and senate.

that had been united states longer than a lot. we have a lot of experience there. howard baker is the enemy. he went on to beat the chief of staff. history never comes back to that profiling. he got his car comes from the capital to the oval office to tell the president you're right, i want to help. >> think about the idea of putting the country first. you those parties, i would say that. let's get to a few more questions. >> pushy panel. >> there is no question that carter had everybody surprised. legislative like what he had. we did have a reasonably

successful legislative program. i'll never forget when i had to give a speech in 1979 in detroit. it had a bunch of suburban news papers. i to have a drink with people who were reporters. this five or six newspapers. they said, you suck. i said, how do you know? they tell us you suck. we had the most productive session in american history. we passed a lot of great things. a very good example, piece of legislation, it would not give jimmy carter in the middle of his reelection. while i completely agree that we had a successful legislative program, we did not have a

political successful relationship with -- >> question. >> if in the memoirs, he would count the argument in october of 79, to the u.s. in his account, he has jimmy carter predicting what is going to happen. could you cast a light on that? carter's thought process that he foresaw would happen and yet, he went ahead and took the decision anyway. >> my deputy, jokingly said i should have of the book. that is not true. inflation carter before anyone else, april 77, gave his first speech but let's take your

question. it's important. he wanted to be admitted for medical treatment. finally disclosing, he had cancer. all of his advisers including mondale, said you can't turn your back on an ally of 30 years. outside, henry and david rockefeller, organized a real effort to put pressure on carter. carter sat there, he was the last and he said to them, to everyone, i think if i let him in, they'll take over our embassy. what do we do then? the end, he found it conceited. it turned out he could have been treated by doctors in houston and mexico the same way he would have been treated there. he was the last holdout.

he instinctively understood what would happen. there's also one other thing. when reagan came in, there was a bombing, we lost 241 troops. bartholomew, office was bond. reagan pulled everyone out. no embassy left. why didn't carter do that? i'll tell you why. in february of 79, there was an effort to take over the embassy and the secular government although appointed, had the police immediately take it back. carter thought, they'll do it again. again, he did prophesy this would happen and he was right. >> i know there are more questions but i think the panel will want a few more minutes and here's a question i would put to the question for the panel.

aside from around, if there is one issue in the carter presidency, that you think has been misunderstood, you think it's been reframed or we didn't get there, what is the one issue and how would you like it to be seen now? with the benefit of hindsight. let's take the class. you are the historian so let's start with you. >> i think his entire record in foreign policy is misunderstood and overshadowed by iran. the fact of the matter is, as he pointed out, panama, china, camp david, afghanistan invasion, all of this is for years.

this is an extraordinary record. when you tell us about the record, i was not fully in that. i think your book is going to be very helpful. i thought it was a brilliant, is because it is as you can see, but i think the foreign policy with outstanding and not rivaled by any sense. >> i think the overwhelming domestic segment of the carter pregnant presidency, nixon and before that, johnston, we might have been transitional figures, i think his commitment to empowt

that needs to be stuttered more. we really had the government where white house staff couldn't give officers order. it worked or didn't work. it worked largely because of the personality. it was absolutely respected, entrusted by these people. he was an honest broker. if stewart hadn't been there with his own unique, taking everyone's notes down, putting the full business. if that hadn't happened, it would have been a completely different administration. >> the detailed thing, carter created the basis for the end of

the cold war which was later assigned, in fact, i believe reagan at the end of the cold war, with certain activity was set to do it. the larger thing i already mentioned which is to demonstrate the intersection of american values especially human rights and american interest as a blend absolutely necessary to secure america's place in the world and to secure american support for being involved. >> when he went, you can't do anything, when you lose, you did everything wrong. i think we would have made a big difference. it was a close election until the end, there were decisions made about debate, in the last two weeks.

i think if i was pushing for something that we ought to credit carter for, since everyone already done, i would say he put in place not just hiring bogart, they were serious other decisions and reagan gets credit for this for sticking with it. so i think one argument here that would be nice to win is the fight against it started with jimmy carter. he put everything in place and the rest is history. history doesn't get written that way. >> the fourth we closed, one other issue on the table. it's an important part of my life. it wasn't a focus on think with the carter presidency but one intelligence survey passed during carter's presidency. based on recommendations of the church commission to correct the abuses of the nixon administration by using our intelligence properly. not only did that set up a legal

framework which survived but also stop the intelligence committee. one of the huge tragedies in the last month is the demise of house intelligence committee. where i spent eight years including ranking member, i would like to say i was out of shift before he was adam shift. it's a really important piece of history and was passed on a bipartisan vote in the house and senate and many people don't remember it. so to close this conversation, the author. >> thanks so much for putting this together. three points. one, the totality of the accomplishments are overwhelming. on domestic and foreign policy and they need to be recognized. two, the degree to which we are in inflation, a terrific

reporter and columnist for the post. he appointed me reagan stuck with it. what you mean stuck with them? he had a long term. not only that, reagan wasn't ready for reelection at the time. we were in the middle of election cycle. third, i am staggered as a testimony of the democratic party, we asked kennedy our entire face, we lost labor after we raised the minimum wage for the first time in years, fall for labor form, saved hundreds of thousands of union jobs, the head of chrysler and up endorsing kennedy. women's groups. we extended time, record numbe numbers.

he was just not liberal enough. the jewish community, my community, he brings the first piece to israel from the arab neighbor. he signs the boycott bill. he saved her life and embraces the jewish group and yet, we have the lowest percentage of support from the jewish community of any democratic president in modern times. so these things simply lost contacts. what i do hope the book will do is reframe this, not ignoring the problems. the credibility of this book from being honest and candid, it rests on the spot and deciding what happened and what was said at all-time. it also has to lead to a broader reassessment of putting these in the context and looking at the remarkable record of accomplishment. along with the mistakes made.

when you do that, maybe it's not the place are not rushmore but sure a place in the foothills. >> in the tradition of the wasn't center, you produced a second book that is a candid assessment of a hugely important piece of history. on a personal note, as your longest standing friend in this room, i think that is fair but remember, i am younger. [laughter] i just want to express my affection and admiration and to the whole panel. thank you for coming. [applause] >> did everyone hear that? oaks outside for signing. books outside. 3.

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