and i think they could get it right. >> host: here's the book, "custodians of the internet: platforms, content moderation, and the hidden decisions that shape social media." the author tarleton gillespie. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979 c-span was created as a public service by america's cable-television companies and today we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> seven of the most-watched book events on booktv.org were political in nature such as number three, "a higher loyalty" and number five, killing the

deep state. the most-watched book event of 2018 was educated, being raised by survivalist and receiving no formal education before the age of 17. you can watch the complete videos of these programs and all of the most-watched book events @booktv.org. >> welcome, everyone. i'm the chair of journalism here at st. joseph's college and a want to welcome you to the cdc that onn behalf of the college. i don't know if you saw the sign out front, we have another event coming up on winston it i wanted to tell you about, a woodrow

wilson visiting fellow by the name of richard benedetto is one of the original founder of "usa today" who will talk about his several decades of experience in the white house press corps. not exactly a spiritual place. [laughing] but an important one nonetheless. so this isth the final event of this fall season to keep in touch. keep those bullets coming up next season. and right now i want to bring up the co-owner and person who directs the series on behalf of greenlight bookstore, jessica. [applause] >> i'm jessica events and

marketing director greenlight bookstore over so honored to be hosting anne lamott in brooklyn to present her new book, "almost everything: notes on hope" pitches going to be speaking tonight with father edward beck so you're in for an excellent evening. we're so grateful for this partnership with the st. joseph's, which allows us to bring you these events indisputable space not far from a bookstore. we listed some great offers this fall. if you missed any of those event you can listen to past events and other conversation with great offers on arpad cost desha our o podcast. we hope to spring events up soon, you can look for those that greenlight bookstore.com. i want to thank the folks are c-span for public for the spent to share this discussion with a wider audience. before he turned to stage a legitimate speakers just a few housekeeping things. firstly signing any cell phones or other electronic devices. if you purchase a ticket, you

should all received your copy of "almost everything" as you walked in. additional copies of the newad book as well as other titles by anne lamott are available for sale at the table throughout the evening and anne be signing books after the discussion. some book she picked up a pre-signed that she will be signed additional ones as she was about time to purposeless. the sign-up table bena over in e sign former in the perimeter of the auditorium. if you prefer not to wait in line we may have few copies of pre-signed books. we also will be passing at some cards in which you can buy questions. we will walk through the audience with those in a few minutes. we will be collecting those partway through the at a moderator m will select the questions to be addressed on stage so please pass this course to the end of the aisle when you're ready. our interview for this evening is edward beck, a roman catholic priest of the passion is congregation is also an author,, playwright and on-air commentator for cnn on issues of faith, religion and ethics who is worked in mainstream media

for over ten years. father bachus, on academic sabbatical working on his second play so we're on it he's joining us this evening. you bespeak a threat with our featured author anne lamott are chief author of the new york times bestsellers hallelujah h anyway, help, small victories, stitches, some assembly required, race eventually, plan b, traveling mercies, bird by bird, and operating instructions. she's also got author of seven novels including imperfect birds, and rosie. she lives in northern california. her new book, "almost everything" is perhaps a book we need most from her right now. uncertainty surrounds us in the news, in our families and in ourselves. even when life is at its weakest when we are as she puts it quote do, stunned, exhausted and over caffeinated, the seat of rejuvenation are at hand. each profound and funny chapter

of "almost everything", she calls each of us to rediscover the nuggets of hope and wisdom that are buried within us that can make life sweeter than we ever imagined. you in for something very special tonight. please join in walking to the stage anne lamott. [applause] >> can i talk to the lighting guy from your? it just got so bright. i'm actually blinded. okay. how are you over there? >> on used to this. [laughing] >> okay. edward and i have been friends

over time, and very excited about each other's work in the world, and we were together in l.a. the week ago and got to spend some time reconnecting. and so i just love, love, love being with him on stage. it's not just an honor. just a friend, and makes it so easy having a brother appear with me. so whatt we did last time, what we're going to do again, i'm just going to read a few pages on the book and so you get a sense of what it's like, and then we will sit down, and we hope you questions. you could ask me pretty much anything. you might want to be a bit more sensitive with him. [laughing] >> so this is the first two pages of the prelude. i am stockpiling antibiotics for the apocalypse, even as i wait

the blossoming of paper whites on the windowsill in the kitchen, the news of late has captured the fever dream of modern life. everything exploding, burning, being shot a crashing to the ground all around us while growing older has provided me with a measure of perspective and equilibrium and a lovely long-term romance. towns and cities, people, all disappear while we rejoice and thrive in the spring and the sweetness of old friendships. families are tricky. there's a whole chapter that begins, families are hard, hard, hard. u there's so much going on that flattens us, that huge, scary or simply appalling. we're doomed, stunned, exhausted and over caffeinated and get outside my window yellow roses bloom and little kids horse around making a joyous racket. in general it doesn't feel like the light is making a lot of progress.

feels like death by annoyance. at the same time the truth is that we're beloved even in her current condition by someone. we loved and been loved. we also known the abyss of love lost to death a rejection and that is somehow leads to new life. we have been redeemed and saved by love, even as a few times we have nearly destroyed, and worse, see our children nearly destroyed. we are who we love, we are one and we are autonomous. there's another chapter the begins all truth is paradox. so i have some of us felt like jumping off tall buildings ever since we can remember, even those of us who do not struggle with clinical depression? why have we repeatedly imagined during the wheels of our cars into oncoming trucks? we just do. to me this is very natural. i think itar is hard here. it is thene absolute hopelessnes we face that everyone we love

will die, even our newborn granddaughter, even as we trust and know that love will give rise to growth, miracles, and resurrection. love and goodness in the rules beauty of the reason we have hope. it no matter how much we recycle, believe in our creases and abide byal local laws, we se that our beauty is being destroyed, crushed by greed and cruel stupidity. also see love and tender hearts carried the day. here against all odds leads to community, to bravery and right action and these give us hope. i wake up not knowing if our leader has bomb north korea and still this past year has been just about the happiest of my life. so it can all be a little confusing. on the one hand, there is the hopelessness of people living in grinding poverty in sub-saharan africa and uptown oakland. on the other we pour our money

and time into organizations that feed and mentor people, teach in uganda and appalachia, show up in refugee camps with water and art supplies. people like us all over the world teach children, teach girls repair and electrical installation, teach boys to care for babies. witnessing this fills me to bursting with though. i have never witnessed both more global and national brutality and such goodness in the world's response to her own. and then there are our families of origin. we call those -- some of us grew up in alternative universe of unhappy marriages when we accepted as normal desperate rental need, and i'm sure your family was just fine. [laughing]e and the template of love you grew up with was kindness and mutual respect, the light in each other, patience with a spouse or a child's foibles. but other families, just a few

here and there, hardly worth mentioning, or stressed, neglectful, fundamentalist, races,t, alcoholic, schizophrenc and/or repressed. brothers and sisters didn't always survive. we begin jumping perfectionists. t.s. eliot wrote, teach us to care and not to care. teach us to sit still. we long for this, and yet we check our smartphones every ten minutes for news, texts and distractions. just before my 61st birthday at site to make a list for my grandson and these are both exuberanto and worried as i was at the age and still am some days. in fact, i am right now. my dearest, iit begin, i have a spiritual mentor named bonnie ii got for three decades now who loves me and trust god and goodness that is sometimes think of her, think of her as horrible

bonnie. does i cannot get her to judge me or abandon hope. for 30 dishes answer all of our distressed or deeply my phone calls by saying hello, dearest, i'm so glad it's you. i've come to believe this is how god feels when i pray and even at my least attracted. so dearest, i begin, here's everything i know about almost everything that i think applies toto almost everyone that might help you someday. [applause] >> thank thank you, anne. that was beautiful. >> thank thank you, edward. >> i want to become something you just read. you said i wake up not knowing if our leader has bomb north korea.

and still this past year has been just about the happiest of my life. how come? >> well, i fell in love and i got engaged and i -- [applause] and i will let you meet in with a purchase of each hardback book. [laughing] years ago.o my grandson is nine and lives with us at the time, and that's his joyful, funny, he still has the slightly baby voice turkeys lovely and he's brown and he went through the terror before the election that trump would separate us, and senator brown child in america felt. and, but he just has the funniest things and about living with him. you know, i love being a little bit older. you get so much less self-conscious and you just care so much less about how you doing

and how people think you are doing. your feet hurt, , you want to think about your feet more. [laughing] your vision is there any memory shot. [laughing] i i decided i had a stroke in denver which five days ago because i have lost so much ground since then. i think it may have been altitude poisoning, but i haven't bounced back. five years ago i would have, but i love not caring as much about dumb stuff, and i love my sunday school kids, two or three them, different ages, and i just am so blessed. youin mentioned you got engaged. i think some people have known you for a while through your writing think of you as someone at the non-traditionalist, kind of 60s hippie. get something at your stage of life like the institution of

marriage, how? why is that important? >> well, he asked me. [laughing] i didn't want to hurt his feelings. and we basically have felt married for, , since we met reay and then we got this funny little house digging up for my his son, and so i felt like, i'll tell you, i get a benefit in san francisco at this huge caliber repressed in pacific heights, , and had a wonderful interview, fran jones, and she said everything that could happen for writers happen for you. you have a child thatov you love who is grown and healthy. you have a little boy, a little grandchild. and said, is it anything still dream about? i don't know why i felt that it was okay to say in front of 1000 people but i said, i think i

might like to be married. and people went did she just say that? because, and it didn't happen for you, oh, what a loser. all she ever wanted was to get married and no one would have her. and then in didn't expect to fal in love at 62, and come with a younger man, he is 61. [laughing] but we just, we merged. we saw the first date that we're going to be able to talk for the rest of our lives about books and god and movies in being parents, and politics. where both very progressive, so why stop? >> that's great answer. i'm glad i asked it. another quote from the book, peace of mind is an inside job unrelated to fame, fortune, or whether your partner loves you. i was struck by that because i

think so many of us look our approval or a a self-worth from the outside. you think comes from a career or falling in love with someone or some kind of validation, but what you're saying here is that the exterior validation, and we know this to be true, but that it can't give you the peace of mine who gets an inside job. how do you come to that? >> it's taken a long time. i just was raised to believe that the a world, by a cheap enough and had the respect of men, it couldn't be a woman, but i but i had the respecth of men who were especially powerful and highly respected, that would be like the fda had stamped me with a seal of approval and that i would be, i would have great self-esteem while i was at the same time enjoying life. that kills people.

striping, striving to be esteemed enough which you cannot be and will not be. it is fickle. the world is a male alcoholic who is still drinking, and some days the world are charming and seductive and just think you are a honeybee, and then the next day they can't remember where they met you or they can, somebody else has comee along, you know? i tried so hard my whole life. i get sober when i was 32, and i was, i couldn't drink my way into self-respect anymore, and it's feeling self-conscious and whole, and boy, i had to get to work and people, mostly silver women, taught me that it was an inside job and that i was starving to death for my own respect because i wasn't raised with it. a girl in the '50s and '60s, was

a mother and a terrible, terrible marriage and was not respected by my father, and i did know you could be angry. my friend pat, fitzpatrick and voice said if you're an american girl over 12 and you're not reallyhe angry, you have missed the boat. i looked very, very different and felt very different, felt so isolated and scared. i just had a tremendous amount of anxiety. these women and some men just taught me that if you want to have self esteem, and start doinggs esteem of all things. what are those things? service and love of people who are annoying, like some of your relatives. like one of my pants. and ago and a visitor all the time and sometimes she's kind of mean to me, you know? but it doesn't say visit the nice, the friendly lonely

people. jesus doesn't say please, please take care of the friendly four. such a short, i learned to shop. i kind of think it was kind of a novelist of the soul, overuse, overtime and i raised a child and that was so crazy and hard, didn't have any money. i think i start respect anyone who would do that, and -- >> in the book, anne teaches sunday school at her church and you are saying to kind of in stillness and the children children you have them repeat the mantra and it was i have value. i have belly. tell the story about the little girl. >> i go to a tiny failing church about 30, 35 people so i have have two or three kids. i had two teenagers teenagers, one was really rough skin and one a little better, and about an eight-year-old girl with very

severe buck teeth. i mean, really straight up bucky just the loveliest spirit. when i told the children we would say out loud, i have value, sturgis it do so, you can do it in your head now, and it is scary because you were taught comfortable not to think it. isn't she full of herself, , right? and you were taught that you were really close to being about you. if you could bring up the b+ two a, and so it's scary to have value. so the boys, the teenagers were just mortified. i have value. i have value, then the little girl said, i have value. and then she said it again, i have value. and she's so beautiful. so what if i'd been taught that as a little girl that i have

value as is even, at whatever shape i was in, however i was doing, that i was a beautiful, precious child in him anyone in their right mind would delight. there are some seats up to if you want to come up here. they are reserved for the publisher but we don't care. [laughing] you can have them if you want them. come on up. we will look away. [laughing] >> one of the wonderful quotes from horrible bonnie was when she said the secret is we are preapproved.re what you don't have to get it, we are preapproved and we could lean into that and live into that really. >> live from that, yeah. the mostng stunning thing i ever heard come she said almost ten yearsag ago. we are preapproved? because everything in the world, every magazine, every commercial on tv, everybody in your family,

everybody has held a care out that it you can bring this up to a certain level, a little more brightly, then yes, then you can get the approval that you so seek. but her position is that you come preapproved. you are preapproved as a tomb in old baby and nothing can take that away. that can't be created or destroyed. that is just true. it's so radical. >> it so fundamental but to embrace it is like a lifelong journey. let's talk about addiction. >> edward, , i want to tell you something. you are preapproved. you are. >> thank you. >> and you have value. >> thank you. >> you have value, as is, as is wow.o no one remember to mention it to me as i was little. >> thank you for that.

i'm going to try to live into it a little more. you have spoken about your own addiction to alcohol and drugs. you have two brothers who are also addicted, and a son, sam. and in the throes of his addiction when he was perhaps at his worst and you were trying to save him, and rescue him -- >> and fixing. >> you write that was the worst time of your life, you wrote in the book. he gets arrested. and he said one of the hardest things in one of the most important things was to not bail them out. and so much in 12 step programs is about enabling. you want to fix it and your natural instinct but how to get to place the thing you know what, he may be just have to sit in shelters or by this so many parents can't get there.re >> one of the acronyms for god is the gift of desperation. and i didn't i think he not 18,

i was just desperate and i had tried everything i could think of. i think sometimes grace is besides being spiritual, grace looks like exhaustion, and grace looks like just being done and giving up on having any more good ideas and doing, i call it the sacrament of stoppage we just sit and you go, i don't have a clue. i thought if i got him out of jail he would die, you know, he goes or thing in history of humanne life, not once in person has gotten another single s pern silver or to stop binging and purging first starting or gimli, not once ever. we need and we receive a ton of support, but you can't do it. it doesn't work that way. and i tried everything, and boy, kids hate jail because it is so

boring. so boring. [laughing] it's so boring. you can have your phone and you don't get any books. and i prayed about it and upright for knowledge of gods will for me in the power to carry that out. i really going to leave this beautiful 18-year-old 18-year-n jail? i thought yeah, yeah. he didn't get so brinkley white way. took a few more years. i had to have my own bottom with a fixing andg risking which was another 12 step program for those he with tiny control issues. [laughing] and i just, i was doing better and not try to fix or control or save them but i had a lot of good ideas, really good ideas. i sent him away and he loved it. hein loved it. he was gone for nine months turkey came back. we in a little 60s town, and

that io was sick and recovered f you have a problem, go look in the mirror. people are not doing things to you, but the way, our problems are not the problem. it's our solutions that are the problem. and so if a kid, own precious, my outside part is mad at me, i the solutions that whichin is to win or buy him back, or bribe. but i get worse and worse. i got to the point where i just had rats in, rats running around in my head. i looked goodfa on the service. i do what they do every day. i take care of the people as god needs me to to be his or her hands and feet and eyes. i write many days. but there were rats running about in my mind. our bottom standing out on the so street relived and everybody knows that i'm a sunday school teacher and a peacenik and all that, and i was holding a

sharpened pencil to my sons throat. that got my attention. i saider you can't be on this property anymore. because he had a two-year-old or something, a two-year-old inside. he said, start to walk wit and i said can i give you a ride to the citi? which is about 45 minutes or an hour. this was the holy spirit because he got in the car. at how to get where we were to him getting in the car with a person -- are you doing that, edward? it's not me. [laughing] >> it's a gremlin. >> and we drove to the citi and he got out in front of his apartment and they got out and gave alike and said, he hadn't said a word. i released as best i could. we say everything we ever let go of hasf claw marks on it. the hardest work we do is releasing someone we love who may die, whose destiny we don't

control. about two weeks what he called and said i have a weak clean and sober, and he celebrated seven years and it was because i left him in jail and because i went and looked in the mirror. i stopped hurting with my help and we are say help is the sunny side of control, you know? andd that my help is not helpfu, believe me. if you know me, you know that. [laughing] >> let's talk about higher power because it's so much a part of step programs, first step, to admit one's powerlessness. you are a christian, so jesus is fundamental to you as a higher power. butte you include a quote from e dalai lama in the book, a quick quote, the dalai lama says religion is like going out to dinner with friends. everyone may order something different, but still sit at the same table.

and i wonder what your opinion is about the need for higher power in someone's life that they have to acknowledge it is f the program is going to work, and even though jesus is yours, how you say some else's, there are a lot of christians who say jesus is the way. if you believe jesus is the son of god, i have a truth i want to share with you and give you, and i know you resist that kind of you have to believe in jesus. so livid about higher power and whether one needs it for the program to be successful. ..

and such a sanctuary. it was a sanctuary movement during vietnam and it's just a place of welcome and shalom and love and i mean, i just feel, how can-- i understand i know nothing, i really believe i have a third grader or golden retriever sense of theology, you know? i keep things so simple with my sunday school kids, whether they're teenagers or little ones and i just tell them, your love, it's love, there is love around you, above you, inside you. this is beautiful little flame of the divine in you. don't let anyone blow it out and that, and i tell them you're loved and chosen and safe. you are safe in the arms of god and of the people who love you and us and as soon as you have a horrible secret you won't

tell any of the grown-ups, you're not safe anymore. that's what i teach them. i don't teach them of the nature of the trinity or who shot the holy spirit. i teach them they're made out of love, and created for love. i wrote in the last book that in the african-- what's, liturgy, they say that god created people 'cause he thought we'd like it here. [laughter] >> isn't that funny? i mean, in the era of trump, especially? i mean that in a nice way and i don't mean that in a political way, but i think it's so funny because we always think about the god created the earth and it was good and beautiful and the animals and let humans name them and blah, blah, blah, so he thought we had -- we'd like it here and i was startled when i first heard that because it's so unwestern.

right? but, anyway, i think there's one mountain and many paths and i have never once, literally in my life to try to come to jesus, but i hope that when i show up, you can feel that i am-- have been loved back to my feet, that you can't get from where i was to where i am now, it's not humanly possible. no human power could have relieved me. i had an addiction and to every single thing you could have an e eye-- addiction to except gambling and my friends in recovery said, that's a big yet for me. and i might start gambling wednesday night in cincinnati, i don't know. [laughter] >> but you know, one of the most poignant stories in the book though is about kelly. >> yeah. >> i don't think you've ever told that story before in one of your writings, and kelly was someone who was in the program, but what distances from it is this inability to give ascent

to the higher power, the jesus thing or the god thing turns her off to the 12 step program. do you think it's because she couldn't ascent to a higher power that that's what did her in or was it not that at all? >> i believe it was. this was a really dear friend of mine who got sober when i did. she was a successful realtor and she was in the pages of san francisco society and she had alcohol, and she said i don't believe god-- they're not talking about god, a higher power. anything. we have a small mountain in our county where they worshipped.

and her name is the sleeping maiden and turned to her as a sacred site and it's clear, it can be anything except for your own good ideas. [laughter] >> you know, it can be anything except for your own pinball machine of a mind that's trying to get other people to change so that you can be more comfortable and so anybody who loved her said you can use the doorknob, anything, but your own best thinking. because your own best thinking gets you to a bottom where you might get love and help. and so she stopped being in groups of sober people and started-- she's doing fine, but a lovely exuberant person and then she lost a hundred pounds when she was sober. started gaining it back and didn't want people to see her. and the most important thing as an american, you look good.

and she ended up. two begins on a tuesday and a bottle, and split her head open at the hospital. a really, really depressing place and i went to see her and i said, let's get back. let's get back with the caribou herd, let's be together with the caribou herd, the god thing doesn't work for me, what can you say? i can say it's okay, i am hearing that and i love you. i never people i pray for you. i tell her i love you, you're the best, and i can't wait for you to get back home and she ended up blowing her brains out. >> and it's so interesting, i thought. the woman upstairs. >> fell in love not romantically, but alcoholically with another very big woman

upstairs in her apartment. >> and it's what i always tell people that the love of your dog or cat is probably the closest you'll be experiencing divine love while you're here. she found a woman upstairs, and they watched tv together and drank together and made each other laugh and it was a way for her to hook into something bigger than herself which is what they mean, something big and beautiful that loved her unconditionally and thought that she had value. it wasn't god as i understand god or god in any kind of goodness and it was-- it was love. god is love. >> it's beautifully put in the book for kelly, god was the old woman upstairs. >> god was the old woman upstairs. >> i thought it was a beautiful way of saying it. >> thank you. >> let's talk a little about family which we all can relate to. another wonderful quote that you included by ramdas.

if you think you're enlightened, go spend a week with your family. [laughter] >> and we talk about the vernier that so many of us try to put forward that everything is fine, our families are perfect and you talk about fine, the acronym, f-i-n-e as f'd up, insecurity, neurotic and emotional. family is not fine for everybody? >> no, i love and live for my family. my parents both passed i have an older brother john, 66 and other brother younger. and all of us addicts, and sh years clean and sober. and nearly died. and my brother has been battling help c, and with ha

harvony, he had to pay like $6,000 and he's been healed. we're there every step of the way for each other and it was really hard growing up. we were all three scared. my older brother less so and he also found drugs and alcohol very early. i raised stevo, my baby brother because mom and dad were in so much tense, quiet, polite distress and they literally should have raised orchids instead of children. literally, i mean that. they loved us. progressive and avant garde and marchers for peace and human rights and civil rights and they couldn't stand each other. and so, it pretzelized us all and twisted us and we all have struggled with healing and

mental health and believing that we're safe. because i didn't feel safe as a child. i held my breath and i walked on egg shells. and i tried to be my father's wife because he didn't love mom so i needed to be enough woman at five and six for him to want to come home. my mother was very, very heavy and didn't like my father and she needed a husband. and then the little one needed a mother and the other brother used to hit me a lot. they always say hurt people hurt people. he always hit me a lot. and so we were very scared and everyone i know-- when i was a child, i completely compared my insides to everybody else's outsides. you'd see people who had money or they were beautiful, had long, smooth hair and parents seemed to be really happy. it was an illusion, a store front. i thought if you went skiing

with your family it meant everyone was doing well. and it turned out that their kids -- as many, i mean, so many kids i know committed suicide and they lived ott the lagoon the wealthiest enclave in our country and she had skiing vacations and they went to switzerland and it was all a show. they were all on the inside feeling damaged and defective. and that they must be annoying because their parents were so unhappy. and their parents looked so happy. and so i have just come to believe every so often, you come upon someone who had a really, really happy experience where the father really expected the mother was an early feminist. and when there were problems the parents got help for them and didn't shame the children or try to goad them into doing better than they could and my-- i was goaded by them saying, you have got to get thicker skin because i was so

sensitive. which is like you just have to be a completely different person and then this family will function better. and really, a family that was happy and parents were equals and respect and affection. and i could name maybe four of them. i've gotten to know. and actually i never want to sit with them at dinner. what would we talk about? you know? [laughter] >> and then i'm happy for them. it's amazing, but the people i'm close to that wasn't the story. the girls some of the boys were molested. there were scary grown-ups that did not protect the child from being brutalized in whatever way. there was just like a lie machine and the mother in the 50's and early 60's had to side with the father because you are not stupid. you align with whoever has the power and it was really one way in the 50's. exactly one way.

so, i write a lot about families because the people that come to-- that tend to come to see me really know what i'm talking about when i talk about how frightened i was and how grief struck by the world i was as a young child and that was where there was this popular book in the 50's called "the overly sensitive child" and the parents like my parents got it because having such an open-hearted sensitive child was clearly hurting their lives. and a lot of the people that come to my events either had very frightening child hoods of alcoholism or unfaithfulness or mental illness or they had religion and ran screaming from the dogma and fundamentalism of their child hot and lately able to find a god of their own understanding who loves them as

h -is. and i love my family and god, the stories i could tell. >> and you do. you have a chapter on hate. >> it's the worst emotion of all second only to jealousy. there's a lot the vitriol in the country right now, we seem very divided politically. we've just gone through a contentious supreme court confirmation hearing and it seems like, there's like nothing in between and it's pro-con. your pastor had a word during your homily, don't let them get you to hate them. that's transformative to you. what's the secret to lot letting you hate them. >> there's a whole chapter i can't say in a sentence or two, all i can say is what i said when we were talking about recovery. is that, the willingness to change and to do the healing comes from the pain of not

changing and doing the healing and about a year ago, after a year of just insanity and hate, and victimized self-righteousness which is sort of my calling card, i thought that same thing. if you've got a problem go look in the mirror and right around then, my pastor had taken a line that was a part of something booker t washington had said a million years ago, he said i shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him. and sorry, martin luther king took that up, also. and our pastor paraphrased it saying don't let them get you to hate them because then you lose yourself and you become then and then you lose your center, and then you lose your serenity and the little rats start up again. and you are not a very-- you don't have nutritious bread to offer the world because you're toxic and i got there. the willingness came from the pain and i was willing to look at my stuff.

and i made contact with my inner donald trump, you know, this kind of-- this is a man who has never-- the difference is, never once been loved in his entire life. his brother committed suicide through alcoholism because of that lack of laugh and that pain of their childhood. this is an unloved human being and, but he's also-- he's bombastic and thinks he's right and i'm bombastic and i think i'm right. and he can be a bully. i'm not really a bully so much, but i start to realize that it's like that old pogo cartoon, i've met the enemy and he is us. and you know, and i know god, i know jesus loves him exactly as much as he loves my little grandchild, that's the mystery of grace. and that grace softens one's heart. the problem is not that it will soften your heart if you're

having a little trouble with one person who you kind of are okay with, it's the promise to free you from the hate-- from the claws around your heart that keep you from being able to breathe expansively and live in spaciousness and truth. it was me, you know? and the only thing i could change was me. i've always registered voters, i've always been a peace marcher, i've always been for women's rights, i've always been certain ways, but i had to look at the fact that i am judgeal and bombastic and i have my arms clenched and my arms crossed and my fists clenched and i didn't want to be enclenched anymore, onhow long i'm going to live, maybe ten, 20, maybe 2. i don't want to go out on hate. i want to go out on forgiveness and the horrible reality, it

begins with self-forgiveness and i had to look at parts of me, the rocky cold part of me that haven't forgiven myself. when i did, i was able to get somewhere. and you know, there's this wonderful-- well, he's a make up pastor, david rotes, r-o-a-c-t-. and he became the pastor of the church called 80% sincerity. and he said 80% of anything is a miracle. 80% of truthful and good and obedient and well behaved, 80% is fair. and i would say i'm about 80% less toxic right now because you know, you take the action and the insight follows. so i started taking slightly more benevolent actions. i didn't start-- i stopped spewing so much. and i'm a passionate progressive and i write a lot

about politics, but i stopped spewing and i stopped believing that he was doing something to me and i just thought, well, we're winning anyway. [laughter] right now, the tide has turned. you know, just a little bit off topic, but when the kids rose up at parkland high school, i began to feel hope again. i don't remember how long ago that was, but when the young rose up, when white kids joined their black brothers and sisters in black lives matter, i thought, we are going to be okay. you know, between science and goodness and the young people, because young people were not there 20 years ago when we were marching for women's rights and ten years ago, and now they are, you go to any of the marches for any social justice issue and half the people are there and the young white men are involved because of black lives matter and that's what it

took to break the trance. and so, anyway, i have less hate, but check again in like three hours. [laughter] >> yeah, we'll see how my levels are. >> i could talk to you all night and there's other stuff i want to talk about. we have to get to audience questions and i want to do lightning rounds. quickly. how do you pray? . i pray first thing when i wake up i lay there and say hi god. in confession, five minutes in the service and i say we both know what we've got on our hand here. and i say i'm sorry, i really mean it -- and you know i don't mean it i'm not contrite not able to change that right now,

but i know i can't get him to not love me, i cannot get god of my understanding to recoil, you know? or to say, well, then the deal's off. you know, and so, but i lie, ap wake up usually pretty early and i say a little prayer that it's about turning my will and my life over to the care of god and always say the lord's prayer because i some days do believe that we're in heaven. the kingdom within, everything that god has promised around me above me, beside me, beneath me, there's heaven here when there's love and people are doing loving things with one another. like mr. rogers mother told him to look for helpers after the tragedy and we had that catastrophic fire last year in santa rosa that killed and wiped out so much in its path. unbelievable because of climate change and when you saw the love. this was not-- what was it called when you ask a question and i say one word, speed-- >> lightning round.

no, you can't do lightning round. >> lightning round take two. i'm ready now. >> what's the hardets part of loving someone else? >> well, just how, how annoying we all are. you know? [laughter] >> we're so annoying. no offense. you're not. you're good, you're fine. >> thank you. if you knew it was your last day on this earth. how would you spend it? >> i would spend it in prayer. i would be doing what i always do, which is seeking union with god and goodness and truth and i would be doing radical self-love. on my last day, i will only be eating dessert. [laughter] >> i won't even be eating fruit. i will be eating dessert and i

will not have flossed for weeks. and i might smoke. it's been 32 years since i quit smoking and i might smoke and eat creme brie-- creme brulee and mostly not about flossing. >> what's the thing that you most dislike about yourself. >> judgmental and breaks a trade. this is good, this had bad. this person is so lovely, this person i'm running from my cute little life. this happened terrible, this happened good. you know, and that's what i most struggle with. >> okay. let's do some audience questions. i don't have time to look through these so kind of, edited, uncensored. how do you feel about social media and have your feelings changed in the last few years about it. >> that's a good question. i never did any of it.

i wrote a piece at sunset magazine you can get on-line that you will like. it's about not squandering your time, this one short, precious, fleeting life you've been issued anymore, and this is about ten years ago, but it's on-line still. and i said, get off twitter. and i wasn't on twitter and about five, six, seven years ago, my son, sam and i wrote a book called some assembly required, that was a journal of his son's first year and he-- river head was sending us out on tour and they said we're really not going to do that unless you get on a twitter. they were clear. they said you need what's called a social platform. i didn't want to be on facebook because i knew that's all i would do. that and not floss. [laughter] >> and then i discovered i could have a writer's at facebook where i could write things, i don't know how to work it i have to find neil or my nine-year-old grandchild or

publicist and say, could you post this for me? so twitter, i remember the first my son set it up. i agreed to do it and after a few days i had a hundred people and i called sam and said i have a hundred people at twitter and no way. yeah, yeah, and then i was off and running. i really-- and i really rely on twitter. there's ten people i follow at twitter that i completely rely on for their perception of what the political happenings really mean or amount to or what we can do. what we can do. >> i've breezed through a few and i notice a lot of them about writing and we really haven't talked about that. the first chapter first sentence on writing is what a bitch. and you talked about you need to write your stories badly and people want to know, really, what is your writing routine and what's the greatest wisdom you can impart about writing for people? >> well, i wrote a whole

chapter on writing, sort of eight pages of-- it's like verb by verb consume. and it's mostly told through the format of the writing work shops i started doing with my grandson in kindergarten so i wanted to tell you how to write in a way that a five-year-old would understand. and it's the things i believe in are just the original story, my older brother who hated school and had a paper on bird. and a term paper he hadn't started and due the next day. my older brother was tough and did not cry. my dad sat down, write it bird by bird. study pelicans, put it in your own words and then we are going to go to dark-eyed junkos, and read about them and write it in

your own words and then we'll do a picture. it was so profound. the short assignments and terrible first drafts, i told kindergarteners, poopy first drafts, no writer you love writes good first drafts. i thought would have been encouraging for me to know at an early age. and another saying, writing is like driving at night with the headlights on, you can only see a little ways in front of you, but you can make the whole journey that way. i think if you're not a writer in habit much getting their work done. you think the writers you like, know where it goes, place to start and things along the way, and the end of the book. no one knows what they're doing until they do it and you write two, three, four drafts, usually after the second or third draft, i'm sure you show your work to someone and they criticize it which i hate and when somebody criticizes my

work, okay, that's fine, we're not friends anymore. [laughter] >> because now i hate you. and, but you need someone to read your work. it's really hopeless if you don't. otherwise you're handing in work that's not good enough yet and people say my-- i have a friend doug in chicago says things like i'm going to love this. you know, the material's strong, the first page is just clearing your throat though. you don't need it halfway through the second page i got interested. people help you. you know, most of writing is about it taking stuff out. like oh, god, i forgot-- my mind went back because of stroke i had in chicago-- in denver, i mean, but she said deka said you have to kill your little darlings and you have to do a draft and you go through and take out the stuff you love more than anything. the passages you think are so

brilliant and the conversations that are just so snappy, and you know, you've got to take it out because you're trying too hard. it's sticking out. when we read it we're going to bump up against it and go, it's great, it's clever, maybe. i'll say maybe we'll use it somewhere else. but that means cut. and then i write at the same time every day. i'm much smarter in the mornings. i just am. i try to get off to an early start if i can. we have a grandchild, we have his school, we have a school lunches and all of that. but i really try, i really try to start as early as i can and i let myself write really badly. like these facebook things i write that are under a thousand words, maybe a thousand words sometimes. they could be two and three hours. and then i give them to neil and he'll mark them up or correct stuff and then i'll take all that and usually, at the last minute you go through it one more time and you settle

can make some good changes at some point you realize you're start to go hurt the book because you've got too uptight and perfectionist and you release it to whoever is going to. a third of creativity is taken out. and i always used to write on paper, paper with pencils because i love the sound of pencil on paper the ancient sacred sound like the wind and then i was-- it's probably the last person you've ever known to come to a computer, but someone bought me, i believe it was my publisher at north point bought me a mac, a strawberry mac, remember the year of the sorbet mac, green, orange, turquoise and strawberry mac and. i always have a paper and pencil with me, if you're going to write it's like you've opened up a mailbox in your soul and you're open for business and start having ideas

and memories, you're going to have visions, overhear conversations in the express line at the doctor's office waiting in line to get a book signed and you can't make this stuff up. it's great, but then you write it down. so-- >> well, when you all read almost everything if you haven't already, it will be hard to believe that any of it was written badly. >> all of it. >> from the very start because it's beautifully done. >> thank you. >> and i'd like to conclude, with a line, two lines from book. being a priest having to deal with stuff all the time to get a handle on what grace is that amorphous notion that we've thrown around, you have a sentence in this book that i thought said it so beautifully for me and i'd like to leave it with us this evening. >> okay. >> anne about grace. it meets you exactly where you are, at your most pathetic and

hopeless, and it loads you into its wheel barrow and tips you out in slightly better shape. thank you. >> thank you, edward. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> all right, one more thing to edward and to anne, and give them one more round of applause. [applause] once again if you'd

like anne to sign a book. there will be no personalization, but she'll sign a new book or old book. there will be no photos. thank you for coming out and have a great evening. [inaudible conversations] >> here is a look at some of the books of 2018 according to the new york times. yale university history professor joanne freeman recalls the violence that took place on the floor of congress in the lead up to the civil war, "in the field of blood". writer lauren wright explores the history and politics in the lonestar state in "god save

texas" reports on syrian war and in the coddling of the american mind, they gave their thoughts on societal trends on campuses. >> students come here from china, singapore, i was expecting to find for free speech and i'm much more guarded here than in singapore. international students-- >> horrified, too. >> it's what jon stewart mills said, on liberty, was not about restrictions on speech from the government, it was all about the social effects and that's what we're experiencing, the social effects. >> did you say what country-- >> germany. >> in 2015 we thought was just american universities, but by 2016, england and it's all over the continent. political correctness, but--

>> all of these authors have been featured on book tv and find the programs in their entirety on book tv.org. type the author's name in the search bar at the top of the page. seven of the most watched book events on book tv.org were political in nature. such as number three, james comey's "a higher loyalty", and corsi's book. and tara memoir of being raised by survivalists and no formal education before age 17. you can watch these complete programs and watched book events at book tv.org. >> and you're watching book tv on c-span2 live coverage. miami book fair. joining us now is jonah goldberg. his most recent book is called "suicide of the west" we'll get