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[ no audio ] >> this is a live picture from new orleans, the site of the 100th annual convention of the american farm bureau. farm bureau federation, that is. attendees waiting to hear from president trump this afternoon. it is running just a tiny bit behind. when it begins, we will have live coverage here on c-span 2. right now, though, more of

today's "washington journal." host: each week in this segment of "washington journal" we take a look at how your money's at work in a different federal program. this week, stephen dewitt of the association for career and technical education joins us for a look at the over $1 billion that the federal government spends each year on career and technical education programs. first, explain what that term, career and technical education means. is this the same as what we used to call vocational school? guest: yes and no, i think. we have definitely had some changes. if you think back to 100 years ago when vocational education started, most of those programs were in very specific trades and individuals would leave high school and go right into the workplace. fast forward 100 years later, we've got many more sectors represented. we certainly still have the traditional trades but they have also changed and evolved as the economy changes. i would say the thing that's in common with all of them is they are focused on applied learning.

students are not just sitting in a classroom listening to a teacher. they are actually going through the motions of how you would apply that education in the workplace, work space, so think of it almost as a lab in many cases. they are working in teams, they are really focused on employability skills as well, skills like critical thinking, making sure we get to work on time. host: what are the numbers in terms of students in career and technical education? are they mostly still high school students doing this? guest: so it is split, and we have a very diverse delivery system in the u.s. we have students who are in secondary school and post-secondary so community and technical colleges but even four-year colleges in some cases. in the secondary programs, the delivery could be through a conference of high school, your high school down the street, it could also be through an area career tech school. it really depends on the state in terms of how they deliver that and we have adult folks who

are learning sometimes in the same environment as students at the secondary level. host: wasn't the original point of this, these programs, to prepare students for the work force so you could skill the cost of going to college and go right into making money? guest: well, originally, yes. i think almost -- well, i think the numbers are around 60-70% of folks will need some type of post-secondary education. we are all going to have to continue to come back to post-secondary as well to update our skills, if you think about the recession of a few years ago, we had people who were coming back to learn new skills to get into new employment sectors so education isn't just a one-stop center. i think it's an evolving piece that everyone will have to continue to come back to throughout their lives. host: as we talk about this topic today, in our "your money" segment of "washington journal," a special line for those who have attended vocational or technical schools.

202-748-8000. we would like to hear about your experiences, what federal programs you may have used. otherwise, phone lines split regionally if you are in the eastern or central time zones, 748-8000, mountain or pacific, 202-748-8001. steve dewitt is deputy director for the career for technical education. over $1 billion a year goes to these kind of programs, federal dollars. how is that distributed and where? guest: so it's about $1.3 billion, we just had some slight increases in congress which we were happy about. the money goes to states and states determine the split between secondary and post-secondary, more or less. then that money is distributed to almost every school in the nation. so if you have a high school in your community, they most likely are having career and technical education programs. we also have some money at the federal level reserved for assessment of the system and studies and things of that

nature. host: we said this was a non-shutdo you kn non-shutdown segment but have these programs been impacted by the government shut down over the last 24 days? guest: good question. i don't think so. i think our education budget and department of education is passed and approved and things are running. we expect all the money to be delivered on time. that's what we recently heard from the office of career tech and adult ed. host: what is the association for career and technical education? guest: we are a 501c 3 not for profit. we work on advocacy around career and technical education. we also work to focus on professional development for our members who are the teachers, administrators, guidance and career development professionals who are delivering programs at the local level. host: for the students, where are they, what kind of work will they eventually most likely go into these days? what's the biggest cte program? guest: good question. you know, it's really diverse, as i mentioned earlier. i think some of the big areas,

if you think about i.t., many students are going through those types of courses and if it's not an i.t. program, specifically, it's going to be integrated into their program so if you think about auto mechanics, for instance, cars now have more than a few computers in them. agriculture, agriscience has been a big area. another one i was looking this morning that surprised me a little was the business area, but that's always been a strong area. host: what's been on the decline in recent years? guest: well, probably some of the specific courses like keyboarding which have kind of served their purpose. everybody knows how to keyboard now because they have computers in front of them. that's one that specifically comes to mind. you know, it's a good question. as you think about the evolution of the economy, really technology as mentioned is so integrated into everything, so everyone needs to understand computers, understand i.t.

they also have to have a foundation in academics and a lot -- well, all of our programs really need to be tied to academics as well. host: what about the end earnings results for these students? do career and technical education students end up making less over the course of their lifetimes on average than four-year college graduates? guest: i think the simple answer is no but it depends on the field that you're in. in some cases, a two-year degree or certification may earn you more money than a four-year degree earner. it really depends on the specific field you're in. i also don't want to pit cte against academics or four-year against two-year. this really is finding the right mix in your pathway as a student so you are able to pursue the types of occupations and the career you want. host: do you think when it comes to federal dollars and support that they have been pitted against each other? guest: i don't know -- i don't know that congress has done that or the presidency but i

definitely think it's done. and we get a lot of media calls that ask us either/or. i have never been asked that on the hill by the staff we work with, but i think it's kind of an underlying theme that's out there. yes. host: career and technical education is the topic of our "your money" segment. over $1 billion a year from the federal government for those programs around the country and a big new law being implemented later this year. we will talk about it with stephen dewitt of the association for career and technical education but we want to take your calls. want to hear from you, especially if you have attended one of these programs. if you participated in a training program or vocational schools, 202-748-8002 is that number. we will start with andrew from fall river, massachusetts. go ahead. caller: yeah. m my name is andrew. i started out in a strict roman catholic school because i have

disabilities. i'm severely dyslexic and autistic. and words in front of my face don't work. i went to vocational schools after i got out of high school, i went to cooking, i went to welding, i went to boiler stuff, and i understood it but once you put papers in front of my face, they meant nothing to me. the vocational idea is a good plan but i think people, you find younger, like go into like when you start school, like kids who have problems like when they're 5 and stuff learning, that you start them on something they're interested in, you know, in a vocation that that will click with them to where they will be able to get into those programs so they will be able to get a degree and stuff like

that. i know a guy who could tear apart a car and do anything electrical in the world and he's fantastic at it but he's just like me when it comes to reading the words and looking at papers. it's like chinese puzzle. host: thanks for sharing your experience. stephen dewitt? guest: i think that's a great point to bring up. this education often engages students, keeps many students in school, and i think that we really are focused on that individual. you mentioned students with disabilities. certainly that's part of the population that we serve. we really want to find the career pathway that speaks to the individual. we want to have more transparency also in the types of careers and occupations that are available so students can choose that path for themselves. host: some of the numbers from the department of education on career and technical education students in high school, some 8,299,000 overall around the country. i want to focus on the gender.

4,470,000 are male, 3,828,000 are female. can you talk about the changes in recent decades on who, men or women are getting involved in these programs? guest: yes. well, i should have looked at those stats before, but i definitely, it's not uncommon for women to be kind of surging forward in all of these areas of education. i think that's something we want to keep our eye on, making sure we are serving both men and women. women are doing great in terms of the performance in these courses. they are outpacing men slightly in a lot of them. also making sure that we have access for underserved populations. one of the -- i know we will get into the new act later, but the focus on disago gags gregation . host: alice is in california. good morning. caller: how's it going?

host: go ahead. caller: i had a question, i was -- i'm a student of a polytechnic school funded through federal funding and state funding, and i'm just concerned with everything that's going on with the president and you know, i come from a family of teachers and what's going to happen and how we're going to get this done and why there isn't protocol that we have for these kinds of situations, these dilemmas. i think we should, if i had to say something. i think we should have something else, something to get us over this hump because i'm very anxious about this and i just want your feedback. host: mr. dewitt, we talked about the government shutdown not impacting cte funding programs, but you did mention, we talked about this big new law

being implemented this year. is it going to impact the implementation of that law and what is that law going to do? guest: yes. i will say the law doesn't have huge dramatic changes but there are some changes. certainly a focus on what we call the program of study which is basically the set of courses that students take, that's going to be maintained and strengthened, making sure that we do have ties to rigorous academics, that you earn a credential whether that's a certification or a degree, you know, that there's some real meaningful goals obtained by students. i will also say the new law i think strengthens the connection with business and industry. we have always been connected to employers and they were a big part of the discussion as the law was being debated this time. the new local needs assessment really, it's called -- i'm blanking on the term. basically each program has to develop a way to measure their progress and that's going to be checked every two years.

host: you say each program. is this each program in every high school and vocational college or is this a state by state? guest: it would be each program at the local level. they have to also bring in stake holders including business and industry, including people, we heard students with disabilities earlier, all those populations that are making up the community as well to really weigh in on what the program needs to look like. most of our programs align to regional employment goals as well and people have regional strategies for those. so we want to make sure these programs are aligned as we move forward. host: is that tied to federal dollars, federal reimbursement, actually placing a student in a job at the end of one of these training programs? guest: no. so the one thing that's different about the perkins act -- host: that's the name of this new law? guest: we are using the term because it's been that in recent

iterations. the new name is the 21st century improvement act, i believe. host: strengthening career and technical education for the 21st century act. guest: been awhile since the reauthorization. most of the community is really referring to it as perkins 5. but sorry, i forgot the original question now. host: in terms of time results and job placement to federal funding. guest: right. these are really education programs where we are teaching groups of students as opposed to training the individual, you would have training funding that follows that individual. host: to gabriel in derwood, maryland, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. so my story is i went to a community college, then a four-year, then a vocational which was part of a community college. i now have a degree in radiologic technology.

the radiologic technology enabled me to get work and has supported me as i save up money to go back to school for more experience. i have seen a lot of people go straight to four-year and drop out because it's too much for th them. think of going to community college first is best, helps you save money, gets you into the experience and lets you move on without getting overloaded. it would be nice if the federal government also offered grants for continuing secondary research, the stuff we have already discovered in four-year colleges but allow two-year colleges to double-check on them. host: thanks for bringing up the issues. stephen dewitt? guest: you mentioned research at the end. we definitely need more research to support programs and we would also like to see the federal government open up resources for

individuals at the higher ed level. they may be attending part-time programs and they don't always have the same access to pell grants and other funding that four-year students do. i think the point he made in the beginning about allowing him to pay for courses later, it sounds to become a radiology technician, is a terrific point. we have lots of students that will earn money as they are going through high school and post-secondary that they can then spend for additional post-secondary education and it's because of the training and the education they received in their career tech courses. host: about ten minutes left with steve dewitt of the association for career and technical education. >> good morning, farm bureau family. i hear y'all had a good convention this mornin