>> jackie simon is at her desk on the day 24 of the ongoing government has done and serves as policy director of the american federation of government employees. largest federal employee union in the country and did you think this would go 24 days? >> guest: it was my worst fear. but yes, i'm surprised it has gone this long. >> host: how long do you think it will go? how does this end?

>> guest: i have no idea. obviously, there does seem to be some good possibilities for a successful resolution to all of this if senator mcconnell allows a vote in the senate of the house but whether that will happen or when that will happen, i don't know we want to think that the most likely pass at this point? what you hear from the members of congress that i know your group talks to and has talked to throughout this? >> guest: our members are calling their senators urging them to urge senator conical to allow a vote. i'm more -- you know what [inaudible] >> host: until the end of our program this morning especially for federal employees 2,027,488,000 is a number all other (202)748-8001 should the

federal government expect to lose employees when this is all said and done? people leave federal service? >> guest: that depends on how long this class. there are misconceptions about the salaries and wages that federal employees earn. numbers of our union are modestly paid and particularly there's been attention on transportation security officers. the people who do screenings at airports. at bwi airport on the road they started at $20000 a year. they take a lesson $500 a week. when that is your economic resources you can't go very long without a paycheck. and so these are people who are very committed to the mission of their agencies and proud of the work they do. they take it fiercely and do a great job. but i can't do it for free.

>> host: talk about the callouts and is that something that can be used as a tactic to put pressure on ending the shutdown? >> guest: callouts? >> host: callouts, people who call in sick. >> guest: that story has been exaggerated somewhat. certainly it's not condoned by our union and not coordinated by our union but there is no sick leave during a furlough so they can't even take sick leave. but you also have to include the fact that there's a lot of flu going around and their jobs exposes them to the general public everyday in a very intimate way. there's all kinds of factors that could explain that. we are certainly denigrating people not to go work for directed to work. telling our members if you have received notice from your agency telling you are required to go to work and that your job has been designated and accepted

then you should absolutely go to work. >> host: can you quit if you deemed an essential employee and better by this shutdown? >> guest: i guess you can always quit by not showing up. you're absent without leave and ultimately absent without leave and subsequently when the government reopens you inform the employer you weren't just absent but had moved resigned, yeah, you can quit. >> host: any other penalty you might face? >> guest: technically, yes. in fact, we expect at least, most supervisors and managers to understand that when you are in a not allowed to -- if you were genuinely ill and cannot come to work than if they would be unlikely to impose discipline on the employee. of course, we would represent them because we want want anyone to face any harmful consequences or disciplinary action for a

legitimate use of sick leave. >> host: how many federal employees do they represent? >> guest: 700,000 about. >> host: how many of those 700,000 are directly impacted by the partial shutdown? >> guest: not one 100% sure but the about 250,000. >> are they mostly in the dc area? >> guest: mostly outside the dc area. we represent fema workers and department of home and syrian border patrol, i.c.e., tsa that are air efforts all across country and park service, for service, epa which is all over the country. hud is also over the country. we are dispersed everywhere. >> host: jackie simon, policy director and if you are a federal employee want to call and tell us about your situation

during the shutdown. (202)748-8000 and all others (202)748-8001 before we get to the calls you are suing the government over the shutdown on what grounds? >> guest: it's a law that guarantees workers certain protection and one of them bubbly is the minimum wage. that law says an employer in the united states has to pay a worker at least the federal minimum of $7.25 an hour. higher in some places. and after an excess of 40 hours a week for some employees you are entitled to time in half for overtime. of course for the government is requiring people to work in pain and nothing that violates minimum wage laws. >> host: is not the first shutdown and on the first time you see the federal government can you tell us about the history of your lawsuits on this issue? >> guest: i am not an attorney so i don't want to say too much but we sued successfully in 20

2013. >> host: what did you win? >> guest: back pay. they more more or less than back we were successful. we are confident again this time. >> host: although backpay at this point pretty certain for federal employees correct? >> guest: congress has passed legislation, yes. >> host: what are you suing for this time then? >> guest: liquidated damages. he failed to pay on time. >> host: to the tune of how much? >> guest: i'm not sure. >> host: data is up first in green cove, spring florida. good morning. >> caller: yes, good money. i'd like to ask for the wall and i am with trump one 100% because he's not kicking the can down the road want to fix the problem. my thing is if we consume the states for these things were

cities and when you go to fed at night and you lay your head down on that pillow because you lost a loved one that should not have been in this country why can't we do something about that? you know, look at new york, sanctuary for all, california, that is not fair. that is just not fair to us. the democrats do not want to fix this problem because i think they're getting money somehow from cartel -- it does not make sense. why would they not want to fix this problem? >> host: jackie simon. >> guest: well, i'm not sure i agree with the premise of the question and i do think the democrats and republicans care a lot about border security and the safety and security of our country. i think right now where there is a disagreement is the means and ends with the idea of shutting

down the government in order to force a particular solution on this issue is one thing and having a reasoned debate in the congress of the united states with the white house is another. we certainly have very strong support within our union but for border security we represent border patrol agents and represent i.c.e. agents. they do the actual work of providing security at the border. we care very much about that issue but we want our members to be paid for the work they do. >> host: i know they had met with speaker pelosi and minority leader schumer and have you met with president trump? has your organization had any one-on-one meetings with the president? >> guest: no, not at the national level. our national president recently sent president trump a letter asking for a resolution of this

impasse and asking him to allow the senate to instruct senator mcconnell who seems to be taking his cues from the president to allow a vote on house past probation spell and get the government back up again and proceed with debate over border security. >> host: any response to that letter? >> guest: no. >> host: any plans this week to meet again with pelosi or schumer or anyone at the white house? >> guest: absolutely. lobbyists and capitol hill everyday of the week and members are calling the congressional representatives, senators, asking for a quick resolution of this impasse. we are asking and focusing most right now on the senate and asking the senate to take up the house past appropriations package and funding measure for the funding and reopen the government.

>> host: jackie simon with us for another 15 minutes talking about or the story we've been talking about for over three weeks. day 24 of the ongoing government shutdown. special line for federal place (202)748-8000 and all others (202)748-8001 and margie is in pennsylvania. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i would like to make a comment to the young lady. the whole first hour of c-span this morning and i got the impression that the general public was very blasé in their attitude had hostility. these jobs were good jobs with good benefits and people think they should have put something aside because this is not the first shutdown. in my actual question is do your people pay union dues and are

you avoiding those union dues for this time? are you helping your people monetarily and that would be my question, thank you. >> guest: thank you for that question. thank you for calling me a young lady. of course, we're not receiving dues when our members are not being paid. we don't have the resources to help our members financially. some unions have a strike fund but since federal employees are barred by law from ever going on strike and of course we would never call a strike we don't have those resources to help people out. i don't think none of our members who are being affected by the shutdown have savings. some do. what we -- >> we break away from the end of this portion