stripped. i think as people we need to make this happen. >> thank you. [applause] [inaudible] >> we are out of time. we can do more questions during the finding. thank you so much carmen cigar and please pull up your chairs. [inaudible] >> you are watching booktv on

c-span2. the top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. but tv television for serious readers. >> each month reminds book club hoechst a book discussion with inmates at the district of columbia jail in washington, d.c., founded in 2000 and two with the reminds book club goal is to connect inmates with contemporary literature through reading and writing. books to be discussed are selected in part by the inmates. >> it is very much like war in a sense. prison is such a negative space in such spiritless space. you know what i'm saying. it is hard to explain for real for real. just like and how this book a lot of these stories i can feel him trying to express in the best way that he can and it still does seem to be adequate sometimes. you know i mean. and that's how i've been feeling about trying to express what it be in prison.

>> up because of one ma one man that wanted to get back glenn mcginnis, he was on death row in texas at the age of 16. and he wrote a letter to kelly taylor and myself at the time we were television producers in in d.c. and he basically said i want to stay alive and i want the world to know how many men of color are on death row. kelly, ended up joining a documentary about him but it was only aired in australia. and "after words" they became friends. she is a book lover, they would read the same book and discuss it by letters. the idea for the book club was born because after he was

executed in 2000 he wanted us to work with charged adults which are title 16 which started with boys that are in the adult criminal legal system. so eventually it started in 2002, 2005 and then we became a official nonprofit. so we've been doing this for about. >> how many persons in jails around the country are you in. >> we are just in washington, d.c. but we are hoping to replicate. we have a lot of other prisons call us on advice of how to start up a cup like this. this methodology is so simple and so powerful. >> wise and powerful what is it do. >> when you see yourself in a book you have this profound transformation that i am not

alone with what i'm going through that i can make sense of it, that i can heal from a traumatic experience that i have been through, i can be inspired by what the characters in the book went through and overcame. and i can connect to another person. trust me, if you have an engaging book your incarcerated population, their outcomes are going to soar. you're going to have a facility that is the place of learning in true rehabilitation instead of tension in trying to come up with things, if you give somebody a book is a whole new world. >> the book is a middle ground, each of these guys have had a unique experience in their life

and the book has this usually this abstract experience that everyone can connect to, and so it connects their experience to the book and then by virtue of me being the facilitator along with client we bring in the personal stories and the talk to each other through the book. >> our model is a non- reader but we have many rea members who have taught themselves how to read. so you want to find content that is so compelling and something that we really want to read. that's why we love george p because it's like that's my street in washington, d.c., i want people to know is the voracious appetite for any kind of book. >> do you have to earn a c in the book club? it has to be voluntary, and these people just want to leave the cell of course, then you just want to come because you want to talk about the book. it is just incredible to me, i've been doing this for so

long, where it leads you to these places that you would never think about. 0 okay we are going to talk about these themes probably know, you can just go of our field with really good insights. the whole format is so everybody can participate, so meditation to relax from the chaos around you. again, to have that childlike playfulness that most of our members have been robbed of literally, they had to be adults and soldiers on the streets is so young so you could play a fun game. but it also helps you know the vocabulary in the word, and the literacy to the game. and then we discussed the book. in the writing for somebody who is maybe shy, or has anxiety about being in a group, they can write. and all of them share, but someone else can read it. we just want to catch what other whatever way to express yourself, will listen.

>> in the session that reminds book club is discussing tim o'brien to be a gnome war novel the things they carried. >> what's going on everybody. good to see you all were going to get started the same way we get started every time and we are going to do meditation make sure you are in your chair, feet on the ground, books down. so today i thought we go for a walk in the snow, walking on a snowy street at night when the lancets light up your the only one out. it's one of the most peaceful experience there is. we have had one day of snow here in d.c. you all remember that this year? so no adverb to close her eyes. get comfortable with your feet on the ground in her hands resting in her lap. you're bundled up, you're

wearing jeans and a really soft cotton t-shirt next to your skin, on top of that is your favorite hoodie and on top of that a fluffy down jacket and a warm hat to cover your ears. it's late at night, and you're standing on a beautiful path that lined with streetlamps in a big tall street. he took a deep breath in, feel the cold fresh air in your lungs. it fills your lungs, it makes you feel healthy and alive. you exhale and popout steam that appears in front of your mouth. take another deep breath then. and then let it out. your face feels cold and energized. snow was falling lightly, it

lands gently all around you. you listen, the only thing you hear is the musical sound of snowflakes landing on your jacket in the branches above you. the snow has muted all of the sounds and you feel strangely safe and protected. like you are in a snowy white cocoon. you love the way that it feels here. and decide to walk down this road. you're wearing gray boots and they make perfect crunching sounds in the snow. at a near streetlamp you stop and leaned her head back. you check the snowflakes falling down. they are mesmerizing. so beautiful. thick and heavy as they flow slowly down toward your face. one lands in your eyelashes, you open your mouth, and a snowflake lands on the center of your tongue. it is cold for an instant before thquickly disappears you feel te magic of the winter, breathe in the cold air. and then breathe out. you come back to this place anytime you want to. gradually, slowly bring your attention back to the room. open your eyes. can anyone envision a place.

>> yes. >> what are some places that came up? were there specific places? >> every time i meditate i can feel the sun. and you know my breeze is blowing. i enjoy the weather. even if we go to a snowy place that's a place you come back to? that your place refill the best? yes. >> and i was at home and my dog was -- with five or six in the morning. >> did you chase him. >> no i left him go. [laughter]

>> and maybe think when i was a child. at first we make snow angels. >> did you ever build the perfect snowman? they always do it on tv in my noise looked busted. i never have character to my snowman. [laughter] it took me back to when i was a kid to and for some reason the charlie brown special brought to my head. i was a kid and sitting in front of booktv watching charlie brown. that was nice. >> you all tended to these meditations on your own? what is meditation do for you in a place like this? >> will usually attend our medications on saturday so that's the only time i can say that i get a piece of mind because sometimes in the unit is

somewhat noisy. so when i do get an opportunity to meditate on saturdays, i am away from this place. so it's really a piece of mine. i get a piece of mind. but at the same time it helps me find with being who i am. i can speak for myself if i had to. >> anybody else? >> fortunate to be in a single cell right now. so when i go in the cell at night, just falling back and then listen to the music or maybe i don't want music on maybe i'm just letting my thoughts flow in that's meditation to me. and because -- like the brother was just saying i am able to just go with him. able to know myself better and

yeah. >> it's like freeing your mind. wear it and carson need a place we get to go outside and meditate. it takes you to certain places you feel so confident. just being able to take up place to free your mind. so just being able to take her mind off things with meditation helps. >> that's interesting because every time being on the outside, there's so many things that can distract you, have a phone, you can always get social media, or texting or calling, and it's in these moments will be coming here that i do meditation most consistently. i actually don't often do it outside of here but it is a reminder that i need to. it's a reminder that those three or four minutes or so even for

me reading, so peaceful in a way that that sort of regularly remind me that i need to bring that sort of thing into my own life. i think it's one of those things that we forget how much time we don't spend with our thoughts. and we get lost in our own minds. into your point, thinking about what kinds of things come to mind when you just sit. when you don't feel like you need to be talking to somebody or fidgeting with something, and so i am always appreciative of these reminders. and how they reminder when i leave here as well. >> i'm not a deep meditator myself but i thought i was daydreaming. i don't know which one it is but i know sometimes it's goin go or this in my own space. >> i think that's important. cool. so were going to transition the

to the game. have any of you heard of the game heads up? >> we play so many games. >> so many games we play. >> so they haven't on your phone, and basically we places in the hospital, i don't know if i told you about the last time but we're playing it with my daughter in the hospital. and they have it on the phone and the person that is playing are going or guessing, hold the phone up to their head in a work comes up and everyone that is looking has to help guess the word that they can't say the word. it's a form of charades. so were going to do that today with cards. so going to give you all of the cards and take one and pass it down. when it gets to the hand and there still more to get around and pass it again. but don't look at the word on the card. your job is to have others get you to guess the word. so you cannot already know what

it is. >> so you don't look at your word and when it's your turn you're going to lift it up so that everybody else can see except you, and we are going to try to help you guess what that word is. >> it's a review so it's always a has to do with the book. you can use other examples as well. just take one and pass it around. >> keep the pace down. >> i know is permanent marker seeking kinda see-through. [laughter] >> don't look too hard. >> i'll try to go around twice so just swing a background. >> may be contacted in deer lake. that's what i need to do because i can't control myself. >> 's all these words are out of

the book ? >> sf to do the book. >> you can just sit the extras on the ground for now. >> was just going order. we will start from down here. >> all right. >> remember you can't say the word. [inaudible] >> anger, you wish you would've done it. good job. >> we have it all the time we

have it all the time. >> when you experience violent this is a result of it. >> unido what were all looking for what. >> we are looking for what from the court.

[inaudible] >> you're putting down a heavy burden. >> enclosed. >> released. >> a job. >> okay am ready. >> fourth of july. >> good job, make sure everybody can see you. >> you can't say the word itse

itself. >> you go hard. >> you have to be what? if you walk in the room they have nothing but snakes in there. something the soldiers would do. >> courage? >> what you have to be for your dog? >> brave? [laughter] [inaudible]

>> you put your face on time -- >> will do a couple more. were not going to do everyone. anybody who feels compelled. >> you have to go on the third floor. >> a nurse. >> draw blood. >> you need to go to the third floor. what's another word for the third floor.

>> affirm. >> a street person's word. >> cussler? >> no another word. a person that works in there. >> people in the war. >> of that? >> when somebody gets shot. >> a medevac? medic. >> that was close that's due tomorrow. >> it feels real good when you don't have one for a long time. [laughter] [inaudible] and audible conversations all

right one more. already good job guys. we were on point. let's pick up the book. i want to read a little bit to get going. has everybody read the two chapters that we are going to be discussing. let's do a little bit of popcorn reading just to get us back into it. it might've been a little while since we've gone through. so let's start at page 155. starting out in the field. the summary want to volunteer to start? >> the platoon of 18 soldiers formed and began trying to

side-by-side to the deep clock. they move slowly in the rain. with their four heads down. they use the butts of their weapons. when they crossed the field to the river and then they turned away and back again. they were tired and miserable. all they wanted now was to be finished. gil was gone he was under the wood and water and they wanted to find him and dig them out and move on to someplace warm. the rains have fallen without stopping. in the mud. a low-grade mist hovered over the line. over to the west there is a moment of silence. in the moments seem to be the last moments of the were.

his uniform was blood, his arms and face were filthy. he was now determined to find his man no matter what. he would not lose the memory of his command like this. it wasn't right, he was a fine soldier in a fine human being, a devoted baptist and there is no way lieutenant would allow a good man to be lost. >> briefly stopped and watched. except for some occasional thunder. it was a deeply quiet morning and the sound of 18 men waiting through the thick waters. lieutenant wish the rain would let up, even for one hour. it would make things easier. but then he shrugged, the rain

was the wall and you had to fight it. determined he looked out across the field and yelled at one of his man close up to the rig. the young soldier stood on by himself in the center of the field, knee-deep water reaching down with both hands as he was picking some object just beneath the surface. the bow shoulder was shaking. jimmy cross yelled again but the young sylvia did not serve or lookup. in his hood, poncho kicked in with mud, the boys fist was impossible to make out. identities transform into men in identical copies of a single soldier which is exactly how jimmy cross had been treating them as intangible units of command. it was difficult sometimes but he try to avoid that southern

thinking. he had no military ambitions he preferred to view his men not as a unit but as human beings. >> he had been -- the very best in quiet spoken. very brave to indecent. the kids father to a sunday school in oklahoma city where he had been raised to believe in the promise of salvation under jesus christ and this condition had always been present in the boys mind. in the way he never went anywhere without an illustration of the new testament that his father had mailed to him. he knew for a fact that he had made a mistake, the order had come but he should've exercise

in field discretion. he should've moved to high ground for the night. he should've radioed and false ordinate. there was nothing he could do now but still it was a mistake in hideous ways. he felt sick about it. standing in the deep waters of the field. jimmy cross began composing a letter in his head to the kids father. not mentioning the shift field he just said what a fine soldier he had been. what a fine human being and how he was the kind of son that any father could be proud of forever. >> the search went slowly for time in the morning started to break. the sky turn to a lighter shade of silver. there was a field of permanent twilight. they waited along the edge of the field closest to the villa. they were tall men but at times

the mug came to mid back other times to the couch. he kept shaking his head and said man talk about irony, and then he just laughed, eaten ship. initiate field it's. it was producing powerful downward section and with each step they had a pool of hard to break the hold. the rain made quick disk in the water. ..

feeling the tension as they move across the field towards the river there was nothing they could do. whenever a man died of his to get it over quickly and that they wanted now was to forget what they have been on the night half way across the field mr. sanders stopped and stood for a moment with his eyes shut

then he passed his weapon over. after a second he held over into the three men didn't speak for a time. inside there were a pair of moccasins. mr. saunders, they said, the guy is around here somewhere. some lieutenant, the man doesn't know. nobody knew. maybe so maybe not. 10 billion places we could have set up last night. norman stood down made of dark green nylon with an aluminum frame. it wasn't their fault, who then, nobody knew until afterwards.

he made a sound in his throat and pulled the straps tight. this much for sure, the man knew it was raining and he knew about the river, one plus one you addeaddit up and you know exactt happened. move it, he said bending against the rain as they were waiting again for the deepwater with their eyes down. >> we will stop there for now. we know how the rest of the chapter goes where people are wrestling with this idea of who's to blame and you ascend on the part were a lot of them are blaming the lieutenant o for wht ended up being a field to put it nicely. what do you all think about

that, like this idea that there should be a specific person to blame? >> i don't think that a specific individual should be blamed, just what i got from the book is soldiers, becaus because he's te lieutenant of course he's not -- he's going to feel responsible for what happened. he's taking responsibility for what happened even when they went on and some of the soldiers were suffering ptsd. i don't think anyone should take responsibility, not one single individual. i feel like every one should feel some type -- every one of us as a soldier, we felt some type of way of losing.

you know, no one left behind. but i don't think all the blame should be falling on him or anyone individual. [inaudible] everything in the society now if somebody taking blame hi them if somebody'thesomebody's got to br it. that's how it happens all the time. a lieutenant taking the blame, they are looking at the lieutenant because he's the one who made the decision. even though his decision came from high up, so it's like what do you do. if you deviate from the orders and something goes wrong then you are blamed for that. follow the orders --

>> it's like a quarterback in the field so those people tell you they probably should have put more attention to it. >> they just aren't going to take their word. if you are in that situation, we're looking at the picture today so it's a whole different outlook. your mindset is going to be different.

that's the whole plant point lie somebody's got to take the blame. >> the lieutenant is leading the men. >> when the decision had been made fo the ships that carried containers, when they are going through rough waters when there's a storm and when they made the decision to go through, they have to go through it's not like they could change their mind. somebody had to give them command. >> it's not really a reward for discarding the order but have they done all those things --

[inaudible] you've got to be on a different type of level to disregard your order and take it upon ourselves to make your own decision. not everybody is going to be able to do that because everything is mapped out for you. there isn't a whole lot of deviating. if this is the order that comes down, that's what you follow. >> in one part of the chapter that we are reading to try to figure out who's to take the blame so if you like somebody may need to take the blame for this and by the end it's like we've just got to get this man onto the stretcher and send them off so there is a juxtaposition of somebody taking the blame and then on the opposite end it's like it just happened we've got to move on. which of those feels right to you do you feel you should carry

the flame or in some ways but it go and let it happen? >> there's got to be a responsibility and everybody's s got to be thinking about how to do things better in the future to avoid and then you got to let it go because it's done. what happened, what can we learn from this. he was trying to figure out searching for something but in reality she's searching for a picture of a girl and the ugly d

of put the blame on himself right before he pulled out the picture she sent she's cute and some say that's when it started going down so to a certain extent he put the blame. one of the people said they would have been laughing at the situation they take the blame and have to learn from it.

>> imagine you are the parent and you find out that your father died in the war, do you feel it would be as important to give the parent a specific reason and donation i guess i'm trying to think what does it mean to feel like you are the victim of something versus part of a group of people who are complicit or relevance to a situation somebody's life was taken so from the perspective of the parents do they deserve an explanation or is it enough to say things got complicated? >> absolutely. my experience in what i've readd and what i seem him a, they pret the flag to a soldier's family.

take for instance when the situation happened with what was the arizona football players named when they crossed fire and tried to cover the whole situation is the family and the parents know what he or she was signing up for to engage in the combat force of its situation nine times out of ten when will come back so also when i was reading the book i try to put myself in their shoes like i'm right there in every book i'm reading i try to. >> i feel like this is relevant -- obviously the war is a

specific social phenomenon and i have to be careful making parallels but how did you think this idea, this theme of blame and culpability and who should be held accountable for someone's death or harm committed against someone how is it relevant to the way you think about your own situations in your life? >> that's kind of how i was thinking about it. like let's say you are in the street of course you've got to tell the parent but i'm not going to go into detail i'm just going to say he died, they got to shooting and i'two shooting o have to tell you this. i would probably leave details out and let them know he died defending this country. unless he did some courageous brave type of thing but just explaining the details that's

how i would look at it the details of the parents, but that's me. >> we talked about this in the last session halloween. these materials with us and in a way it's almost like we want to lighten the load of that burden that they would have to carry on their backs but for others it might be less so that you have an idea so you don't have to make up the exact story in your head. is it better to do what he's saying and let them know some thing happened over to give specifics? >> could give it to them but otherwise i agree, you would

never say it like that to the parents but i would keep it a because the information is less important than information to make a -- >> what you want to know specifically how it happened? in the street i would like to know exactly but in the war there is already the possibility makes child might lose their life so he got blown into pieces or tortured, i don't want that memory but on the streets if my son or my daughter lose their life i want to know specifics. because i'm not looking in

society that my child would lose their life. that's not my fault. it's not my mindset when i sent her off to school or whatever, i expect her to come home. if i send off to war under there's a possibility he or she isn't coming out. it's not expected that when it comes you jus you've just got te ready for it. being in the streets it is a possibility parents deal with on a daily basis. i know everybody is familiar with the talk, their parents have it on tv and express how they've got to talk to their 12 or 13-year-old black and brown son when they start getting a little size on them and start growing up and they've got to have this talk with their sons like when you run into the

police you say yes sir, no sir, don't look them in their eyes too much, don't do anything that could cause you to lose your life. it's definitely a reality. >> the possibility is always going to be there. >> the parent also prefers to move on before their child. i am not a parent so i don't know what it's like to lose a child. my take, i would not want an explanation. i know that it would be heartbreaking. imagine all the schools going --

all the kids going to school and they are getting shot up. >> you are still getting told her child died are not going into the details, your child died in school but they're not going to say the gun man shot them in the head or go into the details, regardless they let them know your child died the same way as in the streets but you're not going to give the details but he got sucked into it. so you are still delivering the same message. >> when somebody dies in the war

coming to become a hero. when people send their kids off to military to some people it's like an honor. if you die in the war they've got memorials downtown you see the names of the people that died. it's different than when somebody gets killed on the street. >> a lot of people don't even like this war so when the veterans come back they might feel like they just came out of prison. they have the same kind of situation. >> i can imagine the context and the animosity people feeling like we shouldn't have been there in the first place to give

a different context to create a whole different sentiment. >> like your child died for something senseless. >> taking responsibility from the beginning but i really liked how they created their brotherhood when they got into the early chapters are checking on each other and speaking of the things they held onto like the picture is the one with a stalking over his head.

they all had that little thing that helped them through the war. >> i'm interested in you brought up people that have a shared experience and when they are finished with that, forming a sort of social network or fellowship to gather and sort of process. there's something specific like wednesday's e. and i get together we are both able to talk about our children and we went to the same school and i imagine i know for the incarcerated folks i work with a lot of them find community outside of the people that have been formerly incarcerated because there wasn't very specific and unique about that experience that's difficult for other people to understand if you haven't experienced it directly. when you think about when you get out is that something that

you think you anticipate or something you want to remove yourself from? >> it's hard. i've been doing almost 20 years. me knowing i have a chance to go home next friday after 24 years it's hard that he understands i have to move on. you relate to the people that understand what you're going through. those of yoboth of you are pareu can relate to being parents. us being in this situation right here, we can relate to each other very well, but it's also the ones who are determined to stay out there in society and do the right thing and share their bond and caring for their friends because friendship takes

time. >> part of the chapter says they were and maybe it's come a moment of carelessness or bad judgment or plain stupidity the consequence that could last forever and a lot of times we say we are in a field like they are in a war in the field and when we are on the streets here in the fields once we get locked up for a mistake or a decision it is out of carelessness or plain stupidity of the consequences last forever. for some of us have been here for 20 years, 24, 25 years and have consequences last for a long time for some of the decisions we make the change likela change likewe are in thew and we can all relate and sit in thia circle right now in this bk

club and have a common ground so we all can relate to each other and express things and process some of the stuff we are going through because we've gone through different things. how did you get through that 20 years and i don't even know how to start. all of us are going through this with each other and it is a platform that is helping us process and to deal with things. >> it's not so much the physical stuff but it's mental, like 85%

mental and every day is a fight to stay upbeat and positive because prison is such a negative space and spirit this space. so it's a specific come artery that deals with especially if we are constantly trying to be positive everydapositive every o grow and be better. we find strength in each other and we talked to each other talr building with each other trying to be creative and as proactive as we can be any place at all without restriction and power and control over you. so it's hard to explain just how like ilikened this book a lot of

stories like i can feel him trying to express it in the best way he can and it still don't seem to be adequate sometimes and that's how i feel about trying to express being imprisoned for an extended period of time. >> in the same chapter he's driving around and thinking about an ex-girlfriend that he at least liked about his war stories. what about sharing stories with people that don't relate? >> i set my goals high for myself. one of the goals i set for myself is helping at-risk youth. i know a lot of individuals in the past are doing this or that my hearbut my heart is truly foe kids. if i could save one i could share my experience of what i've

been through but i also want to gain the parents trust because i know i have the children in my company statistics and i'm looking forward to helping the youth. growing up i have a lot of people who got locked up and in jail and everything and without experiencing it i know for a fact anybody i can help i'm going to be much more honest to help people and understand what it is to be locked up. >> you can fully appreciate before you came in. >> i didn't fully understand what it was like.

when you are out there, you've never experienced it before. people call and ask for money and it's like i will get to it. and now i know what it's like. when i get out there and overpacked anybody i connected with an going to make sure i help because i understand how it is. >> it's easy to deal with the guys that have been through the same thing. it's easy to trust. people have stereotypes and stick mass delete the -- stigma. i find it easier to deal with people that have been through the same struggles i've been through and as time goes on i

won't have to deal with. just accept me for who i am. i can't change my past. when i get out into society there will be people they need to accept me for who i am. >> 1:33 this is right after the page that stacy was eluting to receive you see the woman that d now she is in his house and has this whole other life come a

completely different. it's interesting to think about when you are home and when you leave home and then come back home how different things are. do you all think about that? >> the crazy thing you just said. i've been locked up for 24 years and haven't been in dc since 96. i keep seeing these buses and i'm saying to myself all the time it's the metro bus, just things like that. life goes on but you don't realize when you are in jail. one time i saw my mother and i

haven't seen her for 18 years but i still got the picture of her young and moving and she came in with a walker. time just move so quick and you don't even realize that in jail. so that's what you're saying about the stories i believe our stories need to be heard. we need to share our stories to help somebody from not making the same. a lot of people glorified jail when there's nothing to glorify. >> i cali college and embracingy experience. i came to prison as a child. it's not something i'm proud of. you say you share your story with those who don't know. i don't go around saying i came

here when i was 17 and 24 years in prison. if you inquire, then yes. as rob nee said, you just have to accept me for who i am. yes, i made a mistake but the question you need to ask me did i learn from my mistakes and what are my contributions to society. >> a lot of people in jail aren't even here for a mistake they probably made. >> i came in when i was 4-years-old -- i was thinking i hope that pertains to all the

people in the circle and the they say bring your notes and in your thoughts and stuff like that so i brought what i wrote and i would like to share that. >> about the experience, life experience in prison an and pret have a tremendous impact on somebody like they don't even want to relive the memory. they might not want to share with other people. >> it definitely depends.

each person responds differently to traumatic experiences and to things they've seen and continuously we talk about caring. that's something everybody needs to reflect on and figure out for themselves. >> you get to choose which one you want to write about but both have to do with things talked about today so the first is called my own war we've been able to make connections with people incarcerated as well as those growing up in the street. write a poem in which you describe your own experience and second ithe second is called but it is usually loss involved it might be the loss of innocence and loss of safety, shelter,

self-esteem etc.. think about a particular traumatic event you've experienced without focusing on the details of what happened right instead about what you lost and what life is like when you had this thing and what it was like without it so you have two issues to choose from. if you need something hard to write on, you can write on this paper. i will give you all about ten minutes.

start looking up when you are

done. i did my own war. once seemed so far away that as of late if you like it here to stay. growing up, there was always piece. comfort of family and every crevice and crease. one day i woke up the gunshots and fire. water hoses and policemen killing young black women and men's desires. suddenly i'm a soldier that's ready to fight for the lives of my ancestors and children alike. [applause] >> mine is what i lost and for people that don't know i was born and raised in new orleans and hurricane katrina is my senior year of high school so this is reflecting on that.

it's hard to remember what the earth smells like away pieces of broken glass bolted themselves underneath the soil. it's hard to remember watching the superdome shrink into itself before disappearing into the rearview mirror as we drove away. it's hard to remember how long we sat in the car, how when i delivered at the window the thee highway smelled like gasoline and despair. it's hard to remember how long it took me to get out of bed, to change the channel from something other than images of my city being washed away. it's hard to remember how much i was looking forward to the future before the levees broke. it's hard to remember how much of me is still broken and is yet to be rebuilt. [applause] >> whots share? wife has always been a war from day one. from the first time a kid tried to bully me when i was maybe six

or seven and my mother told me you better get back out there and fight. mother was a soldier so she raised one. violence was daily routine. countless fights, tried to stab a guy or two, never shot anybody or been shot but i can't say it wasn't because of a lack of effort. robert a lot of people, then robbed a few times, nothing less to be expected. all of this by 15 years of age and the only thing that kept me functioning as we become of liquor and pcp. i use the word functioning very loosely. came to prison at 16 and entered a new war one i've been fighting a long time now and i long for the day that i can put the burden of the war down. [applause] >> the title perfect like my own

war. the war we are in the depends. some sinister life, mass incarceration across the nation of occurring by men and women with brown skin. penitentiaries and memories wondering what they are remembering. did dad gets sentenced, i'm scheduled to give more time because in the past i couldn't claim to things because i was buried life's great but stay strong don't worry. lives for the library but lives are buried with soldiers and crooks should and scared to look in the book because lives were took. come prepared because lives were spared for those not well and wanted to many imprisoned the state and fed. two things they carry in their head sleepwalkin to sleep walkio

prison because they're bad -- because they made their bed. bodies after bodies, lifeless for once the walking dead. the war we are in right now because you want to write life down because the things the curry is life right now. fighting the fight trying to give and give back life now. i hope what would happen if they get shot down the things they carry are shocking thoughts locked away in box. the things they carry in life that brings life to a halt. like an eagle or a hawk i hope this is widespread like having the stand because this is being filmed by c-span book tv. television about the things they carry and fail in prison. i'm not here to sell a vision on television.

i'm here to tell the children about prison. does anyone see the war we are in depends whether the war we are in and the war in vietnam the things they carried go way beyond. the things they carried when they're back us in their hamburger arms, some carry their lives in a book [inaudible] speaking of courage looking at the things sent in the field look at the war we are in. we are in the ten. the things they carry and dairy by the pen. [applause] [inaudible] now i'm locked up for a

necessity i lost. my family, my freedom running the streets i wish they would have new. i wrote what i lost because over the years i've lost a lot. once again i embraced my experience. what i lost is my loved ones because of my foolish decisions. what i lost in my juvenile years and what i lost being here. it's not being dead t being dard support my family. what i lost is not having the chance to tell my parents all that i want to as the men that i've become. what i lost is my youth, but i am much stronger today. but i didn't lose is my insanity. >> i wrote my own war.

it is within myself deep within places i have yet to travel. there's so much junk and the weight is hard. my war is within myself trying to understand all the confusion that never seems to go away. like i can't imagine. so many different components to the clandestine schemes is if my life so many that have been placed upon me i've lost count mia casualty of war or iem the war. [applause] >> i wrote something. i'm not a good writer [inaudible] i chose what i lost. i've been locked up so long i

lost a lot like my partner here. okay. i lost is the gift of freedom and the chance to be a father to my daughter and a son to my mother and a brother to my sister, the chance to walk on a sandy beach o articulating drea. dream of home-cooked meals that i can taste in my sleep waking up in the middle of the night realizing all i had [inaudible] [laughter] >> what i lost. i didn't get to finish yet, but i said sometimes i feel like i lost track of time. i feel like i was high to the streets of my life signed on the line. i used to think of dreams being in movies having fun now i'm locked up because i couldn't leave home without a gun. a bright future by never thought about being bad now i'm spending time thinking about the life i

never had. >> love it. [inaudible] i did what i've lost. i lost time with my kids. i lost many friends. i like my loved ones down. [inaudible] i lost my mind and my chance and my freedom i can't wait to get back again. >> i did what i lost. what i lost when i sit back and think of my family and friends in my thoughts again. i lost time with people i love the most. i lost connection, connection to the people i thought would always grow. what i lost, i lost myself. [applause]

>> we've got your poems from last weekend we will get those back at the end. but i want us to end today with just one take away. what is one thing you can take away from the session today it can also just be something obviously we only got to talk about a small section of the book. i love this book i read it in high school and again now as a writer there were so many times i was underlining and putting stars by the way that he constructed language in a way i thought was so beautiful and powerful. so in your reflection you can talk about something that you are thinking based on the discussion board writing but also feel free to bring up a part of the book that we may not have had an opportunity to talk about the resignation with you or you thought was interesting or surprising, what have you.

>> what i admired with soldiers and how they carry so much on them and still be able to move on. so much. but then it's just to carry all that equipment. >> not only emotionally and physically. >> when i was reading the book in the early chapter and wrote down everything they had to take on, so i really admire that. >> it reminded me like we are at war to.

i want to thank you for this opportunity so people out there can see just because we are here we are not bad people. we all make mistakes. appreciate you all giving us this so they can know. something i would like to reflect on we discuss about the blame. when you look at the history of the vietnam war a lot of the people believe it is something that it shouldn't have been a part of and the veterans when

they came back i believe that they knew the society is to blame because one of the components in the democracies to check so if people feel like something isn't right i should so many lives have been lost before people say no, i'm not going to send my child over to fight this war. or why do we have this component in this society and government it seems like it doesn't get used to the way that it should so i think people need to stand up because there's a lot of things going on in society and if it isn't right then we need to stand up.

>> sharing these experiences in the book about the soldiers and the more every time i write a they carry that away and what i take from this whole thing is this experience. i'm going to carry this with me for the rest of my life. >> something that i care if it's a reflection to the buck is the part of the book where he said he couldn't take it anymore.

what i shoot myself in the leg to get out because we have to get out of the darkness when it's pitch black like which way to go when you have no life to show you the direction, nothing. so i took to do a lot like how do i get out of the darkness. >> thanks for sharing. >> what i noticed from reading the book is how observant soldiers were somehow observant and how he broke things down it's real hard for other people to understand and i think that he did a good job breaking down certain concepts and the way he

did it can't help but other people understand things we go through even on a certain level just being in this abnormal situation so i think that with that said, a lot of clarity comes from being in the situation and that's one of the good things that come from being in a situation like good can come from it and i know at least for me a lot of clarity came from being able to sit. i've done spent my fair share of time and it's torturous before you get used to it but afterwards you kind of find a certain peace and clarity that you are able to express yourself much better and articulate yourself much better and know

your self that much better so that's what i took from it, the clarity that comes from traumatic or abnormal situatio situations. >> every time it's like a reli relief. just be forever mindful everybody's carrying something. no matter if they are locked up or on thfrom the street and i'vt got to be more considerate of that and not only focus on my

problems and my needs. [inaudible] [laughter] what did you all get from us, like how do you all feel after you come and talk to some of us and hear our stories, what is your feedback for us? >> i'm sure this is relevant i'm a phd at harvard like all of you know and i study incarceration and inequality and history of racism and how the confluence of all these things connect and the history of racism and punishment in the country has led to the current crisis of mass incarceration and graduate school and getting your doctor if it's amazing and it's also a thing in books all the time so i think that for me what is

meaningful and helpfu helpful ay time i come in here it is a reminder of how real this is and it's not just something in books where there is a documentary. it's an intellectual abstraction because we think about 2.3 million people in prison or 10 million people passing through jail every year. those are big numbers and for some people it can remain so large they forget the actual people impacted so for me i come in and it's a reminder of how real or urgent or how human is like you are people who may have made a mistake in your life that isn't the sole thing that should define you and you are not the

caricature people creative people who are in jail or in person, so i am very grateful for these reminders about what the word is about and it's more than just writing the paper and finishing a degree. it's about how can you gain a toolkit for which to advocate on behalf of men and women who are inside and shouldn't be there. >> i knew from day one when i met you [inaudible] i don't think none of us here have missed a session. i remember as a child reading it keeps my vocabulary sharp and my mind sharp. they say we don't even use 90% of our brains. i try to use it when i read. >> it. >> i definitely appreciate free minds. before i got here i would have never read a book like this.

i learned how to read in prison. but the mines opened up my mind to different thing things, difft authors i wouldn't have even thought about picking up. i definitely appreciate that. >> i'm not an avid reader either. i've been to graduate school now i'm a faculty member inviting my students to read about the issues of the justice system and i still don't call myself an avid reader but when i pick up and connect with you guys it takes me to a place i don't get to go on a daily basis. i'm so much in the daily grind being a dad, husband, professor, researcher that i don't get to do this kind of creative work we get to do here and be able to connect my story and your stories together to realize there's a lot of commonality and a lot of untapped things and connections you don't make when you're just in the daily grind. the other thing for me as every time i come into a prison or

jail and i've been doing this since i was an undergrad, similar thing is, the feeling of walking out is a surreal feeling to be because i know that you guys don't have the same luxury to be able to come here for an hour, hour and a half or two hours and be able to walk out. today we have windows but a lot of times there are no windows. being able to walk out it is a bit of a joyous feeling and not to be selfish, but there's also this sense of so many people in the country don't get the same luxury to be able to walk out and it awakens a new appreciation of life and a new reason for me doing the work i do so because of both of those things i also want to thank you guys and thank you for spending time with us. >> you all inspire me. just growing up a lot of kids have dreams of being a firefighter or doctor.

all i ever wanted to be as a drug dealer, like seriously. .. . >> so i just appreciate the work that you do. [laughter]

thank you. for more information go to free minds book club.org. [inaudible conversations]

. >> here is the book called under the dome deputy editor of rollcall. what are you trying to accomplish with this book quack. >> really i wanted to show that what people may not think of with a lot of arguing in people accusing people of different things. and there is so much more to the capital, congress not only the people they elect but that they can do their jobs and the millions of people and that to show and really in an act of desperation that or may be

contempt and lucky for me we have 50 or 60 years and then put a smile on people's face what would first come up in their mind for congress. >>. >> but on a fairly regular basis when the cameras are not aroun around, granted this is a book of image but the way people interact on a professional basis a democrat or republican or supreme court justice there is that knowing look that people recognize regardless of their approach

they all want to do something for the common good. with an affair he is not non- - - motive for coming to capitol hill in washington but when i look back at the photos there are just a lot of dogs in the capital who are united states senators like senator conrad from minnesota or dakota senator kennedy but also like in the media they bring their dogs because it is a dog friendly workplace. so up there in the radio tv press tower as long as there were no accidents but there is a lot of dogs. i hope i didn't overdo it but

i could not help myself. >> are you ever surprised by the friendships at the capital quack. >> it is weird but some of the friendships like tom coburn and barack obama have two very different approaches to public policy that was not a put on they really are good friends and jeff flake and jeff boone have a very strong presence and in-service capacity so when you see the friendship it wakes you up a little bit as a reminder that they can be friends during morning hour on

the house and senate floor. >> true or false? working on capitol hill becomes a lifestyle quack. >> i say true. it's obviously a little more complicated but very few people get to work in a place where they make a difference then you couple that it's a beautiful place to work it's an art gallery, tourist attraction, it is a teeming place it is hard not to love it even though there are residual issues once in a while. [laughter] . >> who took the pictures in the book quack. >> i am an amateur photographer but nowhere as good it is a small group

working for rollcall so our photo editor who has been there the longest of any or our former editor who is no longer with us the you can see his work in "the new york times" and in bloomberg primarily those that you will see but there are some others. and it really has been a privilege to work with them. so when i started this project i feel like i can tell who took the photo just based on how it is framed or the subject matter.

>> under the dome is the name of the book. thank you for your time . >> hello. i would like to ask the panelists to join me up here. thank you. we will have a conversation may be