[applause] >> you're watching book tv on c-span2, for complete television schedule visit booktv.org, you can also follow along the scenes on social media at book tv on twitter, instagram and facebook. >> okay, welcome, everyone, wow, it is fantastic to see you all. i have to say 152005 minutes ago i didn't think we would see all of you so wonderful to see all

of you, i'm the event coordinator, it's my immense pleasure to welcome you here. can i give get show of hands to anyone who has never been in the store before? wow, well, welcome, you have now transitioned from being strange toaster family, thank you so much for being here and to everyone who has been here before and returns and supports us, we are so grateful to you, so thank you for joining us here this evening. a few logistical items and then we would be able to get started. first of all, i had a few people inquire restrooms, they are upstairs and past the registers. we have books for sale and as you're in a bookstore, we would love if you buy them and we have tons of events like this one this evening, if you like to know what's going on, we send one news letter a week, we have great things that are going on so you can either sign up for news letter or we do have

bookmarks that have all the information about what's going on including book clubs and other events, book clubs which have 14 right now. well, without further due, if everyone could silence their cell phones i'd be most appreciative and i will go ahead and introduce our author for the evening. john ward has chronicled american politics and culture for two decades, as city reporter in washington, d.c. and white house correspondent who traveled aboard air force one to africa, europe, the middle east and as a national affairs correspondent who has traveled the country to write about two presidential campaigns and ideas and people animating our time. he is a senior political correspondent for yahoo news and published in the washington post. new york republic, the huffington post, the daily

caller and the washington times. he and his family live in washington, d.c. and i see him in here all of the time. join me in welcoming me our author mr. john ward. [applause] >> all right, the mic is a little low. [inaudible] >> thank you for the introduction and what a cool night this is for me to be here with like i know about 90% of you. that's really, really special. [laughter] >> thank you so much to all of you for coming out. it's a tremendous honor, privilege to be here. i want to say thank you to east city books. had the vision to bring this

place to life as a result she and her incredibly passionate staff brought life and joy into capitol hill, so thank you to lori. yes. [applause] >> this is like a homecoming event for me. it's my neighborhood bookstore, it's dear to my heart and as i said the room is packed with familiar faces including my parents, chip and dianne who are here, my wife allison, three of my kids. love you guys. [laughter] >> ly do a short reading from the book and then we will do whatever questions you have on the book or whatever else might come up tonight, i guess. writing a book in modern age is

in its own way resistance, defiant angry repuke to judgment and race to outrage or some set of obvious emotions that are phones, social media, news alert, cable news, assertion that thinking deeply matters that wisdom is more valuable than speed and cleverness and tribal thinking. so i commend all of you for joining me in our conspiracy to undermine insanity of modern discourse and replace it with something better. i hope that the book is more than just information. i didn't write it primarily to make a point or to teach a lesson and don't get me wrong i saw in the very beginning that the story was worth writing about because it was more than just a story, but what i'm trying to say is i thought a lot about you the reader as i wrote this book and i wanted to say i had a lot of really great advice on how to do that from people

bridgett and colleague at yahoo news, sean desmond and other people like allison my wife. i wanted this book to be fun to read. i've heard from a couple of people who have read it already that they didn't just look learning things and they didn't put it down. to me it's special not just source of information but a source of joy and happiness, it can be highly informative and escape. now the i think is the human drama between two main characters jimmy carter, one man came from nowhere and nothing and there's a sign of carter that hasn't been fully appreciated until now that testifies a formidable and sometimes ruthless politician.

famous ganzo journalist called carter one to have 3 meanest people he had ever met. [laughter] >> along with sunny and mohamed ali, the other character ted kennedy had everything growing up and that was during depression. father was incredibly wealthy and he had privilege and connection but he didn't feel like he controlled his destiny, when he graduated lawsuit he and his wife joan wanted to move out west, maybe run for office or go to private sector but dominated by family and by father, his father told him to get his rear-end up to massachusetts to get ready to take over the the brother's u.s. senate seat. they came from worlds that were alien from each other and life and career path circled each other in incredibly paths until

they finally collided and had impact on the democratic party and the whole country. ly read a selection of the book that describe it is very first time the two men met. this is also an overlook, even a hidden story, a great example is when i attended the opening of edward m kennedy institute in boston it was next to jfk's presidential library and life-size replica, there's historical section, there's a huge glaring omission in that section. no mention of the fact that he ever ran for president. this is unfortunate because the story is crucial to understand how kennedy turned the corner in his life from years of bad personal for behavior and how he became a senator respected and

one of the most established lawmakers in nation history. in 1908 democrats lost control of the senate after holding both chambers of congress, those 19 years to 1908 were a period of democratic dominance which had been proceeded by essentially one-party rule alternating between the parties going back to civil war. 1980 marked beginning of four-day period in which neither party have had extended dominance or the president. last hope to holding the south. the presence of race is dominant factor in politics, doesn't end there. journalist thomas chain reaction

argues persuasively that the upper midwest and rust belt state that is were the other important parts of the fdr coalition also moved towards reagan because anger among white ethnics over fear that they were taking resources to them and give to go african american. as all of this was happening, kennedy we wanted to move democrats left n response carter is more conservative president, the country, however, wasn't in much of a mood for a more liberal direction at that time. it's hard to know how what the country is in the mood for as divided as we are. we know the energy in the democratic party is moving left thanked debate is going play out, again, among democrats over the next 18 months as they hash out who the nominee to run against president trump in 2020. we can talk about more in the q&a, so i wanted to read a selection on chapter 5 which is

titled a rival where it begins, i had this marked a couple of days ago. yelling of agitated man outside of governor's mansion in morning of may fourth, 1974. at the front gate the georgia state trooper slammed hand down on the hood of taxi cab that pulled and shouted at the driver to shut down, the passenger climbed out of backseat quite the early hour the man held beer can in his hand. this further raised the ire of the trooper could be rated loudly and supported that he had arrived to have breakfast with governor gymy carter and guest

kennedy. it was hunter s. thompson, had published in las vegas. thompson was greeted by carter himself who wore blue jeans, the journalists raved and ranted about the troop the other anyone who would listen. when tyson came down enough, he saw carter and kennedy sitting a few feet from each other. but kennedy -- kennedy told thompson that carter had informed him that rather last minute that kennedy and

entourage could not longer be accommodated on the plain. kennedy aides were running, they received from week-long trip, we had discussed nuclear arm's control and kennedy was treated there as potential president and waiting since president nixon was engulfed in watergate scandal and kennedy being yanked around by farmer limited by the georgia constitution, one term back in less than a year. kennedy's aides treated carter politely. carter was calm and confident. unlike kennedy who had probably never given a moment thought's product, carter had decided

almost two years earlier than this to run for president and he saw two men in the way of his goal, alabama governor george wallace and kennedy. let's skip a chapter but i want to know that the middle part of the chapter goes back a few years and tells the story of carter's second run for governor in 1970. he won that year after losing in 1956, '66 campaign was moderate on race. he went out of his way to win over the white supremacist element in georgia a lot animated who had been running for president and was dominant figure in the south. the middle part of the chapter also tells story how kennedy himself also courted george wallace. in '73 kennedy made trip to alabama and gave speech next to

wallace and basically praised wallace while criticizing nixon. kennedy decided not to run in '76 in part because teddy had cancer and lost part of his leg. when kennedy arrives in georgia for the speech and styes in carter's mansion, he is still planning against carter and wallace in the primary. we are skipping ahead to the speech. kennedy arrived late that day in may 1974, plenty of time to give the speech which went generally as day progressed, busy himselfed with multiple trips to the trunk of secret service car cars. the first sign that something was off in the room came a few

minutes after carter started speaking. nobody was watching anymore. carter now in his last year of governor speech is similar to what he had to say, decide today give georgia's political elites a peace of his mind. he layed bear what he thought of the state justice system, he said he was deeply concerned about inadequacies of system for which is obvious you are proud of. the state's judges were unaccountable carter said and he helped establish commission to change that by hearing complaints, he said he had instituted a judicial review process after reading analysis of some of the sentences given to people by the superior court judges to have state that had grieved deeply, he castigated a

he played himself on the side of the poor reminding the audience that he had grown up without electricity or running water. martin luther king, jr. had been disguised and king wasn't greeted with affirmation,

rhetorically thompson made a right. the speech was a king-held bastard of a speech. i have never heard a sustain peace of political that impressed me anymore. the response in the room was hostile. the tension kept increasing and raised eyebrows, they had not come to hear lawyers denounce of the status quo, here was carter, the man who won the governorship, near the end of his term. he closed with a plea calling on the audience to eliminate many of the inequities that i just described. i've done all ski in the governor's office he said. after the speech thompson told carter he we wanted to get copy of prepared remarks. carter responded there weren't

any, written down a page and a half and stood up. voice of angry populist thompson wrote, pert told decades later that carter was more stride than normal. he thought he would have a bigger role and thought he had been up staged by kennedy. perhaps message that carter intended to take to national stage as a way to co-opt the lost constituency in the south as adviser had recommended in his memo 2 years earlier because he would have to lead, it's not the message that carter went in large part because watergate completely reshaped the political landscape and created a desire among the nation's voters but more than enough evidence that carter obtained

political skills. he would later say that he had seen carter push kennedy around during that trip. i was stunned he said. get out of my way, i have work to do. kennedy was stunned, i was stunned. kennedy had been impressed by the speech, but kennedy appeared to be uncomfortable. for carter it had been a big moment. it was a little bit like fighters at the weigh-in. he was psyching himself up to run against kennedy. that was the beginning of the

serious hostility towards kennedy and began sharing it with journalists and political operatives. carter said something for running for president. i would not have chuckled if you said it at the end. that's all i have from the book. again, i want to say thank you for coming out. that's very meaningful. i will take questions, bill in the back. >> interested in the context that gives me for upcoming year and 2 years, i wonder what -- i

wonder what sources you kind of stumbled upon that you found uniquely helpful in presenting the context? >> uniquely helpful, it's hard to know off of the top of my head. i used books, i went -- i did a lot of newspaper research, i went to carter library and i went to kennedy library. maybe the most interesting one, actually, was the archives in nashville, vanderbilt university had archives of network television coverage going back to around this time, maybe a little earlier, i can't remember the year they started. you can search archive online but to actually get the footage you have to pay a lot of money or go there. i went and spent, like the kennedy library, i remember, you know, there were -- there were a couple of boxes, most of them

under seal. a couple of boxes of things, it's funny looking back because you start out early in the day, i had one day at kennedy library, you start at library, you start reading through it. that's interesting, you're taking photos of your phone for research purposes, by about hour 2, you realize how much you have left to do and how much time you have and that at point it's like 6 hours of just turn, snap turn, snap turn, i think i had a day and a half to watch as much footage as i could and that turned out to be very valuable and in particular the mud interview in its entirety and the convention footage, those were two things that were just really, really great to get cover from that footage. yeah, in the back. [inaudible] >> my involvement in politics

since adolescence and then news in alabama -- [inaudible] >> better be able to say in seconds why they are doing it. kennedy didn't find voice till later but democrats looked at this time out, their candidate better have a voice right off the bat. you think that carter could advantage -- [inaudible] >> i believe he could have, what do you think? >> you know, if he had -- first of all, i think his political fortunes were not as bad, that's the best way you could have managed that. the main reason kennedy got into it because carter, there was one

poll, 22% approval. the lowest he got in gallup high 20's, regardless really bad. that's what ultimately drew kennedy in but i think if he had pushed hard on national health care, i mean, kennedy they say that that's the main thing that angered him on policy and who knows, who knows if that would have kept him out of the race. if you push national health care and the country is still going down the tubes, kennedy, i think, maybe probably still then, what was your first of your question, there's something i wanted to talk about, what was the first thing you said? [inaudible]

>> the mud thing. actually somebody sent me a message yesterday or today and said that pb, is this morning reminded them of the mud -- or the kennedy answer to why he wanted to be president. what did i say, george, sorry, howard. yeah. but schultz went on tv this morning and they asked him, you know, why are you running and he gave some sort of vanilla answer and john dickerson -- the thing about the mud interview is that the first 30 minutes of that hour-long episode were all about and anybody would have known that kennedy was being brutalized way before you get to that question. the question is symbolic because it's something much larger which is the sense that ted kennedy

didn't even want to run for president, he ran because he had ghost of brothers haunting him and driving him into a run and the democratic party wanted him for him more than he wanted it for him. that was that -- the answer that kennedy gave it was not that terrible it was just boring, but came to represent something much bigger. yes a level. [inaudible] >> how difficult was it to get him to talk to you, how interesting was he -- [inaudible] >> so many people asked me that question, that'll be a question i ask him. but it wasn't super hard to get

-- there wasn't a lot of resistance. still active and jerry was helpful, always supporter of the book and, you know, it took time but i never had to really argue with them to say you need to do this and i thought that was pretty big of carter to be willing to talk about this. i don't imagine that they have anything to talk about, when i interact with him, he wasn't cracking a lot of jokes but i don't think that's the way anyway, he was very alert and very sharp and we got 30 to 40 minutes so it was great. >> yes. [inaudible] >> sort of going looking into this as both men didn't fulfill promise for different reasons and he shows -- [inaudible]

>> you feel like neither man fulfilled the promise? interesting. well, i mean, that is somewhat subjective, you have to feel what their promise was, ted kennedy had a lot of disappoint ment, ends up dead in kennedy's car, kennedy's story they were driveing and lost it and didn't report it until 10:00 in the morning. she was dead and he was responsible. the most embarrassing and humiliating in kennedy family history. a huge mark on his career and life. so that just definitely limits to the rest of his life. i do think that running for president allowed him to move

past the demand for him to run for president, he was definitely skilled as being lawmaker. , that was sort of disappointing part of his life, that does suggest that they don't go through '84, '88 with vanilla unsuccessful candidates, don't move to the middle like carter did. we see the democrats now moving back left, so i don't know. he has become incredibly inspirational figure.

it might not come up in the question. the first time i thought about the idea of the book i was in a conversation with jeff berman who is in the audience, thank you. anybody else? my dad doesn't ask a question. yes, tom. [laughter] >> yes. >> you dug in to the gut and day-to-day details of this campaign, how much -- how much are we different, how much are we the same these many decades later? a lot of disfunctionality, nature stays the same and respond to incentives that were given, a lot of disfunctionality

now is systematic and not so much because we are so much worse or better. cnn comes around in 1980 and there's remarkable passages in the book about the last year of the presidency where he's going off to eastern shore for days at a time, you know, to read and write memos, no one in government especially at the white house and the administration and we are just overwhelmed and it short-changes our ability to think long-term, plan long-term and to do things that were long-term benefit to

our country so that's not just about media, it's about structural and hurting our ability to think deeply and think long-term and it's going to catch up with us. no doubt about that. yeah, there's a question in the back. no? [inaudible] >> i grew up in georgia. and legislators out in georgia, south georgia turtle. he was a tough guy.

[laughter] >> yeah, there's a quote from somebody in georgia who said don't pay attention to that smile, that smile doesn't mean a thing. and that's really cool that you were in georgia, appreciate it. what's your name? he couldn't run for the house but for the senate. >> the whole story of carter to run for state senate, i can't remember what year that was, might have been '64 or '65. that story of carter becoming state senator, he was campaigning for 2 or 3 weeks and the day of the election there's a party boss in a small town on the coast, the border of georgia

and alabama who is literal threatening people, the only reason carter won state senator, it's a long story, most of it is in the book, they get atlanta constitutional reporter involved, they write stories and ends up going to a recount because of the governor, i believe, all the way to atlanta, anyway, carter is in the capital, i'm not sure if he will become a senator, just amazing story which, again, is a testament to his -- his strong will. [inaudible] >> griffin bell was his lawyer.

>> right. jeff, you had a question? >> on the mud interview, it's not just the question of why do you want to run for president but any candidate can save a critical question that involve circumstances of their campaign and so that for kennedy is why are you challenging the incumbent president of your own party and he gave that long answer, it was very meandering and didn't really have a point and in the same way with schultz, howard schultz, not so much why he's running but what about being spoiler and he did not seem to me to have a good response from that question. >> yes, i read explanations today in politico. jeff, by the way, i'm going to brag, member of dnc and obama

delegate and those who voted for obama, congratulate jeff in part for that. [laughter] >> anybody else? >> yeah. >> this is a general question, i have not read the book but very much look forward to it. it's a year of politics very clearly and i grew up in the table where politics got table -- [inaudible] >> what did you find out about your research, there must have been something that you were surprised? >> well, generally speaking i was drawn to the story by the narratives, by the pictures you see on the cover of the book which is the story that jeff and another person and i were talking about in 2013, you know,

jimmy carter chasing kennedy around the stage of the convention on the last night and that was what drew me to it and then as i got into the research i was just so blown away by the contrast for background and if you look at the picture section and was deliberate on the way i lay that out and first set of pictures was picture of carter as a young boy on family farm with his mother, he had no shirt on, he had no shoes i believe on, the picture below that is of kennedy, the youngest of 9 in london, the father is the ambassador to the uk. they are leaving morgan's old house. and really entered politics at

the same time and move today parallel tracks. i didn't start out intending to write about that. in some ways that part just wrote itself, i had to do the research, it was just right there and really cool to discover that. maybe one more? yes in the back. [inaudible] >> can you talk a little bit about that dynamic -- [inaudible] >> 2016. good place toned up. it wasn't -- it's the other way around. research on the book really informed my thinking about parties and learning the history of the reforms of the primary process was really

eye-opening, i don't know how you become acquainted with that information unless you both covered presidential campaign and become familiar with the way primaries still do work to some extent and the way they go from precinct to county and national convention and the way delegated are accumulated and very complicated process and that's the way it used to work before the reform in 1972 when the parties had influence over it. am i getting anything wrong, jeff? sort of. .. ..

it got me thinking about role of parties, why they exist and why do have a convention? i do a podcast on this the long game. it explores all this but it's about how we been many weight loss the ability to think about not just politics but public life in a way that is institutional, very individualistic about how we think about power. you have on the session, what do we do with the followers we have once we get them to accomplish positive change? parties are institutions that allows to do things with other people in the same direction in ways we can't under own. we just lost a lot of that mental architecture. and then when you get to the modern, or the current election and whether it is trump, might be primaried, i talked to a new hampshire republican the other day who said that because of the

way the shutdown played out and trump was being criticized by the far right, members of his own party, the phrase this person used is the door is slightly ajar to a primary challenge. that does not mean that the door is wide open or even open very much at all. i do think though that the way the last few weeks for two months have played out has done something for what happens with the mill the report in the investigation -- mueller report. much of the talk about a lot of people feel like trump is sold on his basis so strong that mueller could come out and tell everybody trump did shoot somebody on fifth avenue and it wouldn't matter. i think there's a case to be made that the last month or two has softened him up, kind of

like a boxer being chapter in the face a few times and it looks fine but he's off balance a little bit and he is susceptible to an uppercut. there's a lot more though that still would have to happen. his phone numbers -- poll numbers are pretty good. the lesson is external events can happen and can happen quickly and can change things quickly. heading into 1979, carter looked pretty good and then inflation went from nine to 12%, and the energy crisis hit and there were gas lines and people being shot and stabbed at gas stations. so the lesson there is circumstances can intervene. on the other hand, the hostages get taken three days before kennedy announces and that actually rallies the country to carter. we just don't know what's going to happen but there certainly are people out there who would like to run against trump, and they are setting themselves up

to do so. i think it's the right circumstances present themselves. shall we wrap it up? thank you very much for coming, everybody. i appreciate it. [applause] >> thank you so much for joining us. i'm hoping it won't be the last time we see any. just a a quick note. if you all could folger chairs we put them on the side and make space for us converse and i'm sure jon ward will be willing to sign books. we'll set up a table ready. if we get full arches, sometimes they can be a bit of an iq test, so if you need help we will help you out.

[inaudible conversations] >> coming up next, kathleen day provides a history of the federal government oversight of the financial sector. >> now kathleen day. >> ready? all right. welcome everybody. it's monday, 4 p.m. and that means it's time for this weeks installment of the washington history seminar, historical perspectives and international and national affairs. i'm christian ostn.