and i'm nine years old. i see on him these lines on his wrist. and he's far too young to the wrinkles. so i said to him dad, what's that? without blinking he said that what secret police bound my wrists together with wire behind my back so they can hang me from theceiling of the torture chamber . that changes your outlook and from a very early age i understood freedom is as fragile as it is precious and sooner or later the great ronald reagan said the loss of liberty is always one generation away whether it's nazis in world war ii, soviets of the cold war, whether it's johnny, they're all connected . they worship difference focal points of their ideology, but we always had to prepare for

the next totalitarian and that's another reason why i open that story watch this in any of our programs in their entirety at booktv.org. >> good evening, well welcome. it's wonderful to have this room full of warm bodies. my name is deborah schwartz, i'm not president at the historical society and thank you for being sointrepid in coming out tonight . we are very sure that this will be an easy first mile. i just in welcoming you here, i want to get a sense of how many of you are here for the first time tonight. i see a show of hands? fantastic. welcome. we welcome you as we welcome all of our friends and family

who come very often. some of our trustees who are here, welcome. and we're really delighted to introduce some of you to what we do here. so let me take a couple of minutes to tell you about this place, brooklyn historical society been around for a very long time. we were founded in 1863. where an institution that is dedicated to thinking about the past as it informs the present and helps us to think our way through the future. and you will see that over and over again in programs like this happen in this room. for those of you who have not been here before, please make sure that you pick up one of our program brochures on your way out. there is much great programming here. night after night, in this space and we'd love for you

to join us. we also do exhibitions here. there's an exhibition on the other side of this wall about abolition in brooklyn. there are other exhibitions through the building and our other second space, our gallery in the empire system where we have a history of the front. we also do lots of educational programming. we do 18,000 students every year. we write curriculum for them and we have an amazing collection of materials about long island and brooklyn. most of it housed upstairs in the second floor, boston library which if you've never been there, it's an extraordinary room and in it we welcome everyone to use it, not just scholars but laypeople and those students or anybody who's interested in getting into their history .

so please come back and join us for other programs. i want to call out to you in particular this evening which is the first in its series of programs that we will be offering annually in recognition and honor of martha wooten. marty rubin was a trustee of the broken historical society. she sadly passed away in 2017. she along with her husband bob rubin were some of the great champions of brooklyn cultural institutions. and generous of spirit, and wise and really truly dedicated to all things brooklyn. they were founders of stay in school, right across the

street from us. but what marty really cared about in so many different ways was her beautiful belief in social and racial equity. and she went to great lengths to do whatever she did. to really see that commitment through. so we miss her every day. she was a remarkable and kind woman area and so we thought it was probably one of the best things we could do to remember her to take one of our programs and really personify it, personify some of her values so tonight's program is dedicated to marty rubin. with that, it's my pleasure to introduce this evening's panelists. and so let me just do that briefly before we get on to our program.

leon friedman is a professor of law. he has published 10 books and over 100 articles and is co-author of a broadway play. he's also written briefs and 39 supreme court cases and professor friedman will be our moderator. robert young is the nephew of sergeant isaac woodard. following the incident and water line, mister young helped sergeant woodward put in order the rest of his life. sherrilyn ifill is the seventh president and director of the naacp defense and educational fund.she served as assistant counsel to the lds from 1998 to 1993, litigating many voting rights cases. she left the legal defense team to teach at the university of maryland school

of law in baltimore where she taught civil rights cases along with her students for 20 years and then she returned to the naacp to leave the organization in 2013 and she has emerged as one of the nations leading voices in the struggle for racial justice. finally, richard gergel is the district chair who provides in the same courthouse in charleston south carolina where judge waring once served. judge gergel earned a law degree from duke university, is the author of the book unexampled courage, the awakening of president harry s truman. his book is actually on sale tonight in our shop and he has kindly agreed to save

copies of the book until the end of this program so with that, i'd like to welcome judge sherrilyn ifill up to the podium, please join me. >> i appreciate the hardy souls who all come out tonight and i may, it's a remarkable crowded here. we were in charleston, everybody would be all right now. i am honored to share this great story of unexampled courage in new york. with these truly a city of refuge, for many of the descendents of jim crow. isaac wondered came as the judge waring. as did many of the plaintiffs in briggs versus elliott so it is fitting that i should retrace their steps to the city, and share their story

of an example of courage. as the clock struck 7 pm on august 14 19 45, president harry s truman assembled the white house press for in the oval office. the president sending behind his desk informed the reporters that earlier that afternoon, the japanese government and unconditionally surrendered, bringing an end to world war ii. reporters spontaneously burst into applause and then raced for the door, to share this historic announcement with the rest of the nation. thousands would soon gather in lafayette square across from the white house to celebrate and soon there were calls of we want truman. the president went on to the portico of the white house to make an announcement, this is

a great day for the free governments of the world, he announced. this is the day that fascism ceases in the world, the great cast again to restore peace and bring free government to the world. but many the veneer of american grand self image and the bastion of freedom and liberty was a start reality. african americans live under a twilight world of freedom. and no longer have masters that they did not enjoy the price of a free people. black southerners were routinely denied the right to vote , segregated citizens, and a dominant white society and relegated to the markets of american prosperity. >> racial violence festered just many the surface, ready to explode at any moment and that image is of the lynch flag which flew the morning after each lynching in

america, of the naacp's national office and it was a common sight outside the office formany decades . black americans and other regions of the country and their own challenges. so the nearly 900,000 black families returned from the end of world war ii, they quickly realize that little would change and they began to manage their life and place in america's free country. seen from today's perspective, the american triumph of jim crow celebration and disenfranchisement might seem to have been inevitable . the collapse of morally indefensible practices is wholly inconsistent with the united states constitution but in 1945 with black southerners almost entirely disenfranchised, white dominated southern state governments routinely committed to the racial status quo and the federal government largely, there was

no obvious path to resolving this great american dilemma. >>something had to be done . but what? and by whom? my book unexampled courage details along overlooked story of sergeant isaac watered, a battlefield decorated african-american soldier of the police chief of bedford south carolina on the day of his discharging from the military and while still in uniform. and the transformative impact of this on president harry s truman and district judge waring of charleston south carolina. inspired by the justice of this event, president truman would launch a civil rights program: eating in the ending of segregation in the armed forces of the united states and judge waring would issue landmark civil rights decisions including his great 1951 percent in briggs versus

elliott which would become a model for brown versus board of education years later. >> late in the afternoon, january 12, 1946, isaac wondered boarded a greyhound bus in augusta georgia, after discharge hours later nearby camp boarded , he was traveling to columbia south carolina and then to his hometown of lynchburg where he was to rendezvous with his wife of seven years. during one of the stops along the way, what approached the white house staff and asked if he could step off the bus to relieve himself. at that time, interstate buses did not have restrooms. the greyhound drivers were instructed to accommodate such requests from their passengers and instead the bus driver cursed watered and said i got time to wait and ordered him backto his seat . to the apparent astonishment of the bus driver, watered

cursed him back and said quote, talk to me like i'm talking to you. i am a man just like you. the stunned bus driver told water to go ahead and at the next stop in banks from south carolina, the bus driver now no longer concerned with his schedule departed his boss in search of a police officer to have watered removed and the boss. what are soon found himself confronted by the police chief of lynnwood shawl who responded to the effort to explain himself striking and open head with a blackjack and squirting watered off. on the way, woodward was brutally beaten with scholes black blackjack, driving into the sergeants eyes. the sergeant was then thrown in a semi conscious state into the jail cell for the night. when he awoke the next morning, later that morning

what was taken to the town and convicted of drunk and disorderly conduct. council of the watered bleeding and blinding work recounted and received nationwide attention from orson welles focus on the incident in his weekly radio program . mass meetings were organized in black communities across the nation to protest water treatment and a benefit concert in new york headed by joe lewis and featuring such luminaries as count basie, callaway and necking coal so playful a sold-out audience. of course, that image is joe lewis, then the reigning heavyweight champion and of course in the center is isaac water. other black veterans returning to the hunt to their homes in the rural south confronted other incidences of racial violence including racially inspired southerners. no southern state prosecuted

anyone. on september 19, 1946, the delegation of civil rights leaders met with president truman in the white house. deeply distressed by this wave of racial violence. prior to the meeting, truman if i've been and responded to the concerns of the civil rights leaders so there was little he could do to suppress them. criminal prosecutions by the federal government for civil rights violations were fraught with problems. most notably all-white jury was deeply sympathetic to the southerners. further, congress wanted control of power of the southern committee chairs were determined to block the most modest civil rights legislation. as the meeting opened, civil rights leaders urged truman to call congress back into special session to address the spread of violence. the president expressed sympathy and lamented there

was little he could do because there was no meaningful public support for his civil rights legislation. the executive secretary of the naacp took immediate rights of president truman in this image, and it was also truman's most loyal supporter in the civil rights community. it was apparent to white that the president did not appreciate the gravity of the situation . white changed the discussion with sharing with truman in detail the blinding of isaac watered. as the tragic story unfolded, truman sat riveted and became visibly agitated with the idea that a uniformed and decorated american soldier was so cruelly treated. abandoning the advice of his staff, he stated my god, i had no idea it was as terrible as that. we have got to do something. the following the german row

tom clark and shared with him the story of the blinding isaac watered, noting the police officer had deliberately put out watered eyes truman made it clear that the time of action had now arrived. he further indicated he intended to appoint the committee on civil rights to address a new agenda on america's curious racial problem. days after truman's letter letter was delivered, the department of justice announced the prosecution of banks for police chief lynwood shaw in south carolina with the disputation of the civil rights of isaac watered. the department of justice prepared the necessary documents to organize the first presidential committee on civil rights. truman charged his committee in his first meeting to be bold and to attack the root causes of america's deep-seated racial problem. and less than a year, the truman civil rights comanche

issued a declaration to secure these rights in a graphically detailed racial challenge and proposed groundbreaking policies and legislations including the ending of segregation in the armed forces of the united states. truman fully embraced the proposals of his civil rights committee and on july 26, 1948, in the midst of his reelection campaign, heissued executive order 991 , mandating the infiltration of america's armed forces, a successful desegregation of the military at the beginning of and the end of jim crow and america. i will tell you i had this image the other day and my son said any announcement of the ending of segregation, just as a routine matter, refers to a lynching. the justice department's efforts to prosecute lynwood shaw took place in columbia south carolina produced in

the short-term a predictable result and all-white jury acquitted the police chief after only 28 minutes of the liberations you the case was tried before united states judicial which a charleston patrician whose father was a confederate veteran of multiple generations of ancestry. prior to the trial, judge marion was skeptical about the federal government's prosecution of a police officer but his views changed when you're the highly credible testimony to describe his arrest at the hands of chief shaw. as shaw supporters cheered his acquittal, he noticed the judge's wife elizabeth who had attended the trial left the courtroom in tears. judge waring joined his wife later that evening and both were traumatized by the trial over which he had presided. the saw trial forced the judge and his wife to stare

directly into the southern racial abyss. of you that would forever transform. waring later described the shaw trial as his personal nexus of apartheid and his born wife baptized in racial prejudice.>> the waring's return home after the shaw trial result to learn more about the issues of racial injustice. which the waring had previously thought little about. these were not subjects that could be openly discussed among white charlestonians of south carolina. the waring is designed to undertake a direct its day, each evening after dinner, elizabeth would read a portion of a selected work to allow the judge to rest his eyes after a day of handling his judicial dutiesa couple would then discuss what they had read, often while driving around charleston . in a favorite pastime. as the judge waring's views on race and justice emerged,

george elmore, a black businessman filed suit in federal district court in columbia south carolina in 1947, challenging the south carolina democratic party's all-white primary. political leaders were united in their determination to desert like primary. not to stand a supreme court precedent holding the primaries unconstitutional. judge waring understood the decision recognizing the right of minority citizens to vote would produce an intensely hostile and possibly violence reaction. but waring concluded it was either to be entirely governed by the doctrine of white supremacy or to be a federal judge beside the law. on july 12, 1947, judge waring issued his decision in no more versus price, declaring the white primary unconstitutional. waring ended his order by declaring it is time for south carolina to rejoin the union to adopt the american

way. the groundbreaking nature of the elmore decision was appreciated by the leadership of the naacp and in a private note to thurgood marshall, william casey would later be appointed the first black federal judge i've read the south carolina opinion three times and i still don't believe it. in any respect i think it is the greatest legal decision but the segregationists would not be abolished. a new rule would allow blacks to vote in the party primary so long as they voted for racial segregation.they knew the suits was filed by surprise and this was in 1946, judge waring summoned all leaders of the parties at the committee for an emergency meeting. these were some of the most

powerful political leaders of the state. waring announced their efforts to define his earlier reading and explain a federal judge face contempt and imposed a fine or jail sentence. he wanted those presidents to know that if there were any future violation, it would be in deference. thereafter african americans by the thousands registered to vote in south carolina. the response of south carolina's white supremacists was tremendous. death threats written and oral were constant. crosses were burned at the waring resident and crosses were thrown through their living room window. "time magazine" the drive waring as a man they loved kate. they also noted he was proven to be the person of unusual courage. it was the purpose of the unprecedented vilification of waring continued to devour

him, it did not work. instead he continued to study race and justice in america and became convinced that jim crow segregation and the decision in plessy versus ferguson was legally, historically and morally wrong. waring then approached 70 years of age and likely retirement result to play a role in overturning the doctrine. waring developed a plan to place a school desegregation case into the docket of the united states supreme court. currently convinced that a majority of the justices would overturn plessy if they directly influenced the issue. he noted on his docket the case from claritin south carolina on briggs versus elliott which ought to equalize the facilities in the districts black and white schools, the classic claim . when the plaintiff attorney thurgood marshall appeared in the charleston courthouse,

later justice marshall, arriving in charleston. when he approached and appeared in the charleston courthouse in november 1954, for his case to begin just in a few days, he was advised that the general wanted to see him privately and i'm sure he said what happened? after being ushered into the judges office and the door closed, waring told marshall that he did not want another trial in a separate legal case. marshall responded judge, this is not on our agenda. we don't think this is the case, we don't think this is the time. waring was not persuaded, thurgood marshall in this case, this is the time. marshall urged the judge noting that any decision by him overturns plessy would be reversed on appeal. in the circuit court of appeals. waring as plaintiff balanced

and contested the constitutionality of the state law. he would request the appointment of a three-judge panel. and marshall responded within losing to the one. waring agreed, noted that any appeal from a three-judge panel made direct to the united states supreme court, he said that's where you want to be. waring's plan was bold but brilliant. and conflicted with the highly successful litigation strategy of the naacp that carefully built one legal president on top ofanother, never trying to get ahead of the supreme court . and a few minutes after this dramatic encounter, waring convened a pretrial conference and publicly pressed marshall whether he was prepared to challenge the constitutionality of segregation. marshall stated that he was and agreed to dismiss his pending lawsuit and filed

briggs versus elliott as the first frontal attack on public school segregation in school history. the newly filed case was filed in the charleston courthouse in may 1951 for a three-judge panel which included judge waring and in prior years, civil rights cases in the south were sparsely attended by members of the black community. lest babyidentified as members of the naacp . but on the morning of may 28 1951 as the sun rose in charleston, african americans lined up at the federal courthouse and down broad street as far as the eye could see, hoping to observe what many thought might be the most massive case in american history. judge waring later described the scene as a breath of freedom and my dear friend has painted a beautiful picture of that day titled

breath of freedom. those in attendance in the courtroom were not disappointed with the performance of thurgood marshall and his trial team. the trial included testimony of doctor kenneth brown, the social psychologist who had done research on the effects of black children using black and white dolls. the crowd was entertained by marshall's cross examination of the state key witness who ironically his last name was crowe. thurgood marshall quoted sure loves eating crow and one observer bob biggs stated mister fagan got his law degree when he finished school but he just got his baccalaureateaddress to thurgood marshall . and waring predicted the majority of the panel ruled that south carolina's laws mandating segregation were unlawful under the plessy doctrine. waring fully aware he was writing a decision for the

ages, wrote an elegant and brilliant attack on the foundations of segregation in america . he concluded by finding segregation and education can never produce quality and is an evil that must be eradicated. segregation, education, adopted and practiced by the state of south carolina must go and go now. >> .. unexampled courage, presenting this. in the face of the longest established way of life from the state of south carolina and practice and lived in as a result of the institution.

that was the first challenge public school segregation by federal judge since the doctrine 55 years earlier. somebody asked how he could presume to overrule existing united states supreme court present. he did not think he could that. the supreme court decided three cases. one involving a separate but not equal while school in texas, another involving a current student at the university of oklahoma. he was allowed to enter the school but required to sit outside. there he is sitting outside the classroom. a third involving the segregated dining cars on the trains in the united states. all three, the plaintiffs one unanimous before the supreme court. maybe commentators, the victories further window away.

reading them together, concluded they stood for proposition that separate could never be equal. he viewed his dissent as exclusively what he believed the supreme court had already stated completely. in early 1952, six months after the great says, as a judge, he moved here to new york city. he followed closely cases from virginia, delaware and kansas, all consolidated the for the united states supreme court. under the name brown versus board of education. all the other school segregation cases involving 14 different judges, only he concluded segregation, even if the facilities were equal, violated the 14th amendment. may 17, 1954, supreme court handed down its unanimous decision and let brown versus

board of education. it adopted the rule that all government mandates the segregation was unconstitutional. judge was always so philosophical about what he called obligations to these decisions. he observed taking the whole thing in balance, i think i am enormously fortunate. you don't often have the opportunity to do something that you really think is good. i think a great struggle came down my l.a. the others don't, to anything. their offset of what i think is a really important contribution in the history of our country. in a little over a year ago, as i completed unexampled courage, i visited this town.

the faithful path of isaac. the bus stop where he was removed, from the greyhound bus. to the storefront around the corner where he was beaten and blinded. the location of the street where the town jail in court. joining me on this solemn walk was the mayor. and the town attorney. they both only recently resigned learned of this. town attorney filed a motion to reopen the case of the town versus isaac. to overturn his criminal conviction. the motion was granted, expunging his convictions and bringing a closure to the tragic events of every 12, 1946. [applause] this is a story that deserves to be told. with all of its brutality and redemption of the american of

justice. thank you. [applause] i think our panel can come up. i am the moderator of this program and in order to give you full disclosure, richard and i are second cousins. [laughter] that maybe one of the reasons why am up your. i'd like to start asking some questions about isaac himself.

i wonder if you can tell us something about the man, what he was like. before and after this event. >> i knew him more after the event. i was a lot younger. before he was blinded. as a person, he was, he was always on top of things. he knew what was going on around him. he had his fears. i just assisted him. he was a fun loving person. in he also. [sobbing] he lived in the bronx.

you were part of his household? >> yes, he was in the bronx. the family moved in the house. a big family house. his mother and father and my mother, sisters and brothers. i'm sorry. we were all in the same household. most of his expense activities, fuel and pay the bills and collect the rent. i understand the did collect the money which allowed him to buy a house? >> i was ahead.

>> that's the amsterdam news. the fundraiser to get the purchase of the house. he said the limousine to our house to bring us down to the event. from then, he purchased his first house. since then, the year after that, switched houses from this inco income. >> he became a landlord and collected money from other people? >> i expected all the money from the different houses. one had two families, factory on one side and a funeral home. [laughter]

i wouldn't go downstairs of the funeral home. [laughter] >> what was his spirit like? >> he had a great spirit. you could not really annoy him unless you did something that displeased him. he was a good christian. >> did he talk to you about what happened to him in south carolina? >> early, yes. he told me when i began reading a book, i got to know it from what he told me. with the fbi told what the eye witnesses told the fbi was what he told me.

the book, the reading, the statement were different from what the police said. that's what annoyed me. >> but he never knew about the impasse of president truman? >> no, we never knew. we never knew that. but you put it in the book. but i never knew that. that was a force in president truman doing that. >> let me ask you a couple of, legal questions. they brought the exchange case in order to show graduate schools were not equal. the whole effort was to make equal to whatever the students were.

the plan was to continue this. simple justice. the idea was to take it from graduate school to colleges, high school. and then elementary schools. but what happened? how did that plan change? or why did it change? >> thank you so much for having me. i trust you all are going to purchase this excellent book. i'm so grateful to be on this panel talking about isaac because i do want to say before we focus on the law, this is a perfect example of the lives of the people who actually made the sacrifices and transformed the country. very often we don't know their names. many people know some but we don't know harry and eliza briggs. they also lead south carolina to the bronx as well. they lost their business and for

jobs, knowing who isaac was, it's really the extraordinary, humble, strong, courageous american who really change the world. they change the country in the world that most of us are familiar with and grew up with. they do it at tremendous sacrifices. to have a story where we just talk for a moment about isaac to begin with that conversation, it's so important. we avoid debt to those individuals. they make the sacrifice, they endured the sacrifice and still went on with dignity and integrity. how did this happen? it's a great question. i think we all like to pretend in hindsight, that there was a perfect strategy, perfectly executed. it is true that marshall and the defense fund had a strategy and it began with the great

visionary lawyer, the most brilliant legal mind of the 20th century. he was at howard law school and extraordinary civil rights attorney. he traveled throughout the south, the rural south in the 1920s, 181920s. he had seen the terrible conditions, this is why the south carolina case was so important. it was the one that was directly to the vision of charles. he had taken video and had really seen the terrible condition of the schools and it was his belief that transforming educational opportunity for americans was the key to transforming the lives it began with education. i was his theory. first case that marshall one, was the 1935 and he when it in municipal court.

the first step of the strategy, that was challenging university of maryland moscow. he won the case before a white judge. he brought in municipal court and he was successful. people wonder why he was so arrogant later. he won a case like that as your first case, you're like, dude. [laughter] he won that and that was before that. they continued marching on with this litigation and he described it was missouri law school, university of texas law school, oklahoma law school, the pharmacy school and the photograph of him sitting outside the classroom. there was an effort to attack jim crow and education and they believe that this was the right strategy because southerners were not as resistant to the idea of black people becoming lawyers or doctors.

i know that sounds counterintuitive but it's because they believe in jim crow. the should be black doctors to serve black people and black lawyers to serve black people. there was a resistance. there was this bizarre obsession with the idea of young, white girls and boys going to school together. a lot of fear about sexual nature me going and so forth. it was k-12 that white southerners and supremacist were resistant too. they understood this. they thought they would chip away at the entrance by starting with the graduate school and that was actually successful. they want all of those cases i just described. then as you heard from judge, it was wearing who said now is the time. this is the case. i can't imagine a judge telling you that but this is the case you've got to do it. i do want to say that that wasn't the only thing. it's critical of us to understand how change and

transformation happens. there are all kinds of things that loosens the soil that i can loosen the soil because it transformed judge ladies wearing. black soldiers returning had a different idea of who they should be in america given what they had just fought for in world war ii. they were willing to tolerate some of the things they tolerated in the past. it's also true there was activism in the soil. if 15-year-old girl, barbara john, who organized a walkout of students at the high school, edwards county virginia also was important. she wanted to challenge the conditions of her school, the lack of labs, the used book, out-of-state used book facilities that were subpar. this was an all school, all-black school. she did it anyway. she let her fellow students in a

walkout. they refused to return to school. this forced marshall's hand on the virginia case that became part of the brown cases. he said that there's nothing we can do. virginia is going up. it is saying we have to do this now. marshall has grassroots pressure. i tell the story of barbara john because i want people to remember the role that young people in activism does play moving things forward. you have robert carter who was serving as marshall's deputy who was much more progressive in some ways. the pressure of wearing, held walter white the head of the naacp, marshall leaving the legal defense fund. they split in 1957 they been separate ever since. he had a lot of tensions and transformation, having around the country and in the dirt sections that made it come together. with a strange money and one

thing, all of the factors that come together, it's important for us to remember that. that's how transformative change happens. it's not the one man eerie, not the one event. it's all of these things coming together. >> richard describes in the book, when he was being pried the first time, this huge crowd came, in order to support him, marshall turns to bob carter and says which one? bob says, what? we haven't even started. they are not scared anymore. it's a critical moment. judge carter told me that story. incredible story. it was the sequel themselves going forward and saying -- >> there's another part of the story. after mr. marshall is pushed by judge waring to dismiss briggs and bring the first challenge to public schools segregation, he's

gotten to get his clients, a small dictator. he says bob carter to south carolina in rural impoverished community probably the last place that he might be safe in a situation like that. mr. marshall was concerned with their safety and he sent up carter there to say, there's no shame if you are to do this. you should expect retaliation. it could be severe. in elderly gentleman stood up in the back of the room and said, we wondered how long it would take for you lawyers to figure this out. [laughter] they were ready. >> last year, last march, linda brown passed away. she was the family with the lead plaintiff. i spent a lot of time with her sister, cheryl and with her mom

in her 90s. just beautiful. but we spent a lot of time talking about the sacrifices. the toll that it took to be that person. even for linda. the toll it took for each of them and yet, what i love is there's a certain kind of loveliness between the families. the brown family always said, if you don't want to talk about, it wasn't as bad as it was for them. that was probably true but there was a sense of sacrifice, shared sacrifice. a willingness. >> they got one out. they basically left. there were 21 of them. basically they were forced out. the community leader who put them together, who was empowering figure in the civil rights movement, he was not

appointed himself because he did not resign in the district. but he had been a teacher in that district. they were all fired. they mysteriously burnt his house down and fired -- the firemen watch. there was a picture in the book, someone standing over the embers of his home. they brought criminal charges, he had to flee the state. with these people did, it was amazing. the sacrifices they did. they never thought they did that much. this felt like they did what they should have done. >> i want to say in 2014, at this 60 anniversary of brown, i harassed the offices, the president of the united states, obama. every week for a year. i wanted this to get out. it was crazy.

you don't hear back, you just described 21 people moved from one place and sure brown had the list, she put the list together for me. it happened. they agreed. i still cannot get out of my head, the image of all of the families milling around outside to get until they left their security. to go into the white house. we went in and i'm still furious this was not televised. we went in to the east room and i don't -- i think president obama was more overcome than he expected to be he started to talk about the sacrifices of these people in the room. it was something i will never forget. it will never be heard by anyone else. but to see all of the families, weber was alive from the family came to represent to be there in

that moment. it was a very powerful moment because of the sacrifices of these ordinary people. >> he recognized that and he referred to the plaintiffs who showed on example to show courage. >> called helped in all of this. the first time brown the board of education was argued, there was not a majority in favor. they were in favor against it. they weren't quite sure and then chief justice died. oral was the chief justice of the united states. he helped -- i think felix, one of the on known helpers. he said how can we help with the case? he said, why do we ask the

lawyers to answer some new questions. so they threw out four or five new questions. two of them seemed to say we are where in favor of segregation into seemed to say no, we are against it. the second argument took place before the court, earl took over under those circumstances. >> one of the reasons i love that, there is serendipity to lauren. you never know. i told this whole story. we need a grand strategy and i said, we have a supreme court to hold the sort. i said, chief died and earl became the chief justice. he was a position. i mean no harm but i had to tell you, when justice suddenly died, my whole staff was like, it's happening. the point of the story is, so

many things we've already talked about that as it, we talked about all of the different things that happened. in this case it was the death of a chief justice. it's also important because at least from my perspective, not the judge, a male litigator. eightys waring maybe wasn't right. his view was, this was the case but let's move it. if there is a movie on the court, the could have been an in trying at a moment -- >> which is what they feared. >> that's why he didn't want to go forward. in some ways, marshall had the wiser strategy. waring had something that made him believe this was it. providence. interceded and transformed the court because he was in influential figure. the governor of california, and

so forth. just to point out, he wasn't crazy to think he should not be bringing this case at this moment. it just worked out with all of that together. >> corey allowed to talk about the bad news about what happened? what happened in the south, where the schools were desegregated and then there was a change, a cultural change. in light of the families in the schools, they moved to private schools, white flight and the supreme court didn't exactly follow through in every respect. it's still a fight. from cities and towns to make sure there really is equal education opportunities. >> not only that, the isaac

case, the choreography of this case, the two accounts you are talking about, isaacs account of what happened that night and the officers, chief's account of what happened to him that night. this is not far off, in cases of police brutality, two different accounts. certainly for me, when i was reading in detail, the transept of the trial, reading his testimony in the cross-examination. it felt very present for me. we not only have the issue of -- not only the resegregation, they were -- i benefited from that. i was blessed with a school who was mostly white. i was in school when that was

forcing. the ground position in part because of the supreme court, this is really critical to remember about judge waring. people say the court adopted judge wearing. in many ways, they did. one very important way they did not, this is the testament to how powerful judge waring was. in his dissent in briggs where he said, segregation on the first day on equal which he could do the jim crow system, he talked about the harm of segregation to black children which was supreme court also talked about in brown. he also talked about something the lawyers presented in the brown case, which was the heart of segregation to white children. that never made it into the supreme court decision. our entire conversation about integrated education in my view was shaped by that missing piece. >> another part of the piece,

that is judge waring recommended that it was immediate action. not all deliberate speed, 1957, he was interviewed, he was asked, i think that decision was an important case. they got one part of it wrong. they should have implemented it. it was like tearing a bandit off for one to. if you do it slowly, it allows resistance to form. that was a tragic mistake. >> we talked about the brown decision, we talk about the first one. it did not include a discussion about the harm of segregation on white children. i think that is important. brown to with the implemented position. the parents in court, they hiccup and stumbled. they gave local southern jurisdiction kind, time to work through. >> that produced resistance.

>> is often needed. they need to the period of time to develop their resistance. you heard of massive resistance, resisting this decision. 101 members signed manifesto agreed they would resist brown in all ways. private wind patterns were open. schools were closed, they were all closed for five years rather than integration. the public schools were closed for five years rather than integration. giving those communities the opportunity to create their own schools and try to use public funds for those schools. we hear this linkage about toys, many of you believe in it but you should origin, you should know the origin of which. this was how white parent described. they wanted to deal with public tax money. the supreme court failure was in not doing what waring knew.

he was a senator and he knew the people around him, you've got to do it fast. press enter. >> that was his lesson, they would comply, if you give them no choice. you do it you medially. >> why don't we ask, get questions from the audience. i think we were about to get a microphone. i think we had a hand over here.

>> memories of always said about the experience europe in the army. >> repeat that. >> what was the extent of his military experience. >> you have any memories of a his experience in military? >> he was in asia. >> the judge mentioned earlier, the military was segregated at that time. most of the military, the black military would do medium job. they would unload ships, nothing that they would have any authority with. he did it with a smile. never complained about it.

just to go a step further, after his blindness, he was bitter for about three or four years. then finally, he let it go behind him. that made him the way he was. he was dealing with that all the time. that's what made him annoyed. [laughter] >> he had to adjust so quickly. i was astonished reading that, at how quickly it happened that he was on tour and then he had to testify, very little preparation. >> yes, something you never expect. i've seen him slip on the floor in his own hands in these.

i just knew his outside activities. in. >> i saw somebody over there. >> is it true that when this incident happened, it took months before it reached the headquarters in new york. it was medication sort the story didn't get there for some months before they could take action. >> that is true but what really happened, after he they hospitalized him, into a normal hospital, they finally put him in the hospital in columbia. he was in there for about two months.

he saw doctors who looked at his eyes and they finally found, the decision was that the courts were cut. they were -- he would never see again. people from all over would talk to him, one of the eyes. >> let me say that, he was beat and pulled off this bus, be and taken the next morning to the va hospital. i'm sure he had some form of head injury from this vicious beating. he would tell the story, while he was in the hospital to some of the african american orderlies. it eventually got to the leadership in columbia. then to the -- the president

send in african american one publisher of the local newspaper, john mccrea. to interview him. great learned the story in a memorandum and it landed on the desk of walter white. that took about two months. then about that time, mr. young's mother came to columbia to pick up her brother and bring him back to the bronx and shortly after that, she took him into new york to meet with the staff. that was april of 1946. >> this is probably why, everyone who jumped on board, at that time, it was the journal, five since i believe.

>> they extensively covered your ankles story. >> he was on the front page a few times. >> that was the early 50s, one no. >> my friend, sherry here, told me about isaac's story several years ago. i remember seeing, i'm very educated and i never heard this story. just maybe last week or two weeks ago, i heard about some young african-american men in florida whose case had been revisited. my question is about racial as

it relates to education and justice because if we don't get the information through education and segregation and still really, i don't want to say that's the norm but it is what is happening even in new york city in terms of school. how is it that we are going to have the racial justice that we all say we can get if we are not getting the information through education or even in our newspapers? so we can have this conversation and really talk about racial justice or injustice? >> my thinking is, there's so much going on, we're never going

to get information about everything in this world. there's a lot going on everyday. i could talk about where i live and i could educate you on that. not what's going on in the next time for me. you ask that question, but there's no answer for it. [inaudible question] >> i think that we now have to

pay response ability for educating ourselves about things that we want to know. what is true is that in this period, the 1940s and 50s, there was a black press. i know because i've done this research. i've always said, everything i know about matthew williams, the two men in maryland in 1931 and 33, i learned from that. when i say learned, i mean not that the incident wasn't reported, the incident was reported but the men were wrong, the names were wrong, what town it happened in, circumstances surrounding it and so forth. there is a black press that

allowed people to be connected. how long things took, that was a key conduit to passing on the information so that if you live in the north, they would know about it. you would know because of the black press. he wouldn't know because he talked about it on tv. you are right, there's a lot to know. how to sift through all of it? i think we are at a point where if you want to know more, you can no more. your.on the education, i think it's an obligation of teachers to educate themselves. which is educating teachers about the history they don't know. i've had them, the group coming to our office, we can teach them some of the history so they are ready to teach their students and answer the questions. the truth is, many teachers do

not know this history. we began there. i think an age of media and social media and so forth, everyone has to take responsibility. i think this is what is part of citizenship, is not just casting ballots, is educating yourself about what's happening in your world. everyone has to decide for themselves, one of the outlets i trust? i want to have in my portfolio. my daughter is consuming news all the time but that's how i was raised. you pick your -- follow me on twitter. i'm telling you this stuff. i'm putting out there, if you want to know, it's there. pick your places and decide what you want to know and i think at this moment, part of the issue is that there are so many outlets, it's hard to know. it's almost like we have too much news. it's hard for people to curate

what -- we have fake news and -- i think that is now part of our responsibility. to figure out how to put yourself in a position where you can be a citizen knows what is happening in the world around you. it's not going to be served up. his history has ever been served up in any mainstream way was how to take it upon ourselves, i just need to know. i just want to know. gather those outlets -- >> you are doing that. >> look at you all. you get all the details and information about these events. it really makes you ask more questions. i'm reading the book and i think i know what i'm asking questions because i'm reading and going, i didn't know about that.

>> festival, yes, you did what i was going to say. i just want to say to -- yes. i just want to say to the brooklyn historical society, i learned so much every time i come here. there are things that happened. i learned so much that i didn't know about her. and about truman, i had no idea. cheryl, always. she's always so -- i mean, i'm just in all. in any case, i want to ask matthew, did he ever marry and have children, family of his own? >> he never remarried but he does have a son.

i haven't seen him in a few years and my grandmother, his mother adopted another son that he raised as his son. you could say he has two children. the one son that was adopted, died some years ago. >> we don't know about the other son. >> i haven't seen him in two years. >> i didn't know, i have to say i've been so caught up in the past couple of years, in this country the tween there are things that i clearly do not believe in.

i'm very upset, even physically by what i have heard. my family is from south carolina, still have a home there. >> what time? >> sheldon. >> i know where that is. >> one of the things that i'm almost afraid to say this, i have been afraid of that in terms of what has happened to people there. it's important for me, what you talked about, judge wearing to know there were people who were on the other side that actually stood up for what i believe this country stands for. that's a great education to me to know that there are people like that. but i didn't know. >> just wearing used to say that

the loudest voices in the south were the best voices. he always believed there was another south bend. >> i'm honored to be here today. that is my great uncle. closer to the bronx. he's my grandfather's brother. i was about eight years old and i would say, had i know he could feel, next to him. not be so scared. my dad told me what happened to him and i began to be angry that

police officers do that. can you imagine an 8-year-old child being angry toward police? something cruel to your uncle, so think god my father was irreverent. he said just have faith, don't go around hating people. anybody that does anything that you. this is to say all that, knowing that i had a disrespect for officers, there's a lot of police brutality going on in new york, and also was for myself for years. you just have to know how to talk to your children to make them understand that whatever you go through in life, you're going to get over it. [applause]

>> one question. one more. >> thank you. it was a wonderful discussion. congratulation, judge on your book. i am a journalist. i firmly believe that everything helps. i'm just back from northeastern university of law school in boston where a former attorney from the legal defense fund is putting together a bunch of contest on cold cases in the south. the first podcast involved in south carolina where a black man and a white man got off the bus and the black man turned the white man and said, harry truman is integrating the armed forces,

equality is coming. come to my house and have a drink. the white man killed him. according to my friends, there are untold numbers of cases like this. at columbia, there is now a program in legal and civil rights reporting. i am planning to bring these podcasts to columbia's attention so that young journalists will follow up the way jerry mitchell has on cold cases but i think every little bit helps and i think your book is a big help. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you so very much. [applause] thank you all so much for being here tonight. we hope we will see you soon.

we hope many of you join us to have the judge sign his book tonight. had conversation, stick around and thank you all so much for your participation. >> each year, we cover book fairs and festivals around the country. nearly 400 today. his a look at some coming up. march 2 and third will be live at the 11th menu annual tucson at the university of arizona. later is the virginia festival of the book in charlottesville. on april 5, but for us in san antonio and annapolis festival. more information about upcoming book fairs and festivals, to watch our previous