important to them? c-span what open the doors for all to see unfiltered congress from content from congress and gambit in the age of the power to the people this is true people power but in the 40 years since the landscape has changed no monolithic media broadcasting is given way and youtube star are anything. c-span's big idea is more relevant today than ever, no government money support c-span and nonpartisan coverage of washington is funded as a public service by your cable or satellite provider. on television or online c-span is your unfiltered view of government. you can make up your own mind. >> we are back with ellen hearing of the service women's action network. we will talk about the current controversy over the military draft and women's role in it.li helen, the morning. tell us about your organization.

>> i'm ceo of service women's action network where a nonprofit that advocates on behalf of of active duty as well as womenth veterans and and arrange a body areas. we conduct research and have a membership organization. >> there's been talk lately about women being drafted and the possibilities of that so let's set the stage by talking about how many women are in the military so right now we have about 15% women who are active-duty troops and this includes army, navy, marine corps, air force and coast guard. also about 20% women are in the entional guard and reserve component. we have over 158 thousand women who already serve in the national guard reserve it the question has come up over women being included in a possible

draft. tell us about this issue and what's going on with it right now? practice has been on a debate but goes on for many years and was first introduced in 1980 when they reinstituted selective service by president carter at the time and wanted to include women in this selective service but congress did not agree with him and so became a male only selective service system in 1980 that was challenged pretty quickly in the courts by men but it went all the way to this report in the supreme court said ruled against including women because they said the purpose of the selective service was to draw men into combat or fighting forces and since women at the time were prohibited from the combat branches the supreme court said no we will keep it male only. that's with ben until 2015 andma 2015 or 2013 secretary of defense panetta listed lifted the ban on women serving in combat units.

then we opened the discussion to women now register for selective service and in 2015 the next secretary of defense -- carter in fact opened ground combat jobs to women and shortly after that to members of congress decided the opening of the ground combat and they thought that they would mobilize action against the opening of these positions and so they introduced inthe draft our daughters asked which we thought would cause this big outrage and it frequently passed the senate and both the public and the democrats agreed women should register and so they backtracked and withdrew the bill and decided that instead of putting women that they would study this situation whether or not women should be registering for

selective service and ultimately the draft. >> the trump imagination is making moves on this right now in the court case atolls about the court case and with the drop administration is doing. >> what happen is also about that same time several men they challenge selective service in a court case that was ruled in texas and the judge and ik said yes, unconstitutional and only require menit to register. but we've got this study going on the commissionst required in 2016 and that commission is underway in the interim report which i have a copy of his called the national commission on military national military national public service and published int, january 2019 and the final report will be due this time next year and the purpose of the support is to examine broadly the possible types of national

service and i think the drop administration but a whole on this until we see the results of this national commission and what they recommend. >> now we've got in the back ground of the way so where does your organization stand on being drafted in america's military. >> long said that with full rights comes full responsibilitd of citizenship and we believe women should be required and always have been required to register along with men if in fact we keep selective service in place. we agreed that it needs to be examined and were not sure if even the necessary program and it's not expensive but does cost the government money to register young men now but will be young men and women for selective service. >> should there be any exemptions for women? some of the arguments we've heard from politicians that women are the child bears and

the people who keep the homes going so should there be any exceptions for women connect. >> there are exceptions for men. many men have been exempted from the selective service or draft when the numbers came around and being a father was one of those potential exemptions sone i thik there should be family exemptions but should not be applied differently to women then it is to men. >> we want to make sure our viewers enjoy this conversation so if you want to call in and talk about this issue of women being made available for military draft we want you to call and the democrats you can call in at 202748 ###-8000, republicans 202748 ###-8001, independence, 202748 ###-8002 if you are active or retired military and you want to talk about the possibility of including womenin in a future

draft we want to hear from you as well. call 202748 ###-8003 we're always reading on social media at the expense of vj and on facebook at facebook .-dot com /-slash c-span. allen, one of the discussions we've heard about the court cases that this is a decision that should not be made by s deral judge and a decision that should be made congress. where should this argumentt be settled? in the courts or through legislation? >> i currently completely agree it should be settled through legislation but congress often don't like to make controversial decisions and will leave it to the court to make those decisions. in this case again congress wrestled with it a few years ago and did not want to make the decision pushed it into a study in a study things when they don't want to vote on them but

in the meantime the courts are asking because cases are being brought. it could end up being the courts rule when congress should be making this decision.ng >> here's more with the justice department had to say. if ordering women to register for the draft would impose draft registration on all eligible women by judicial fiat before congress has considered how to address the matter, no party before this court represents the interests of those be impacted by this change. you do see the congress being or congress being afraid of making controversial courses so they may have to make this decision in congress reacting to it. >> yes, exactly. they would be late to react to court decision that ruled unconstitutional. i do think that's what this report will ultimately put in their hands information about what the service and about a broad range of potential options for national service.

i suspect they will go toward something that the more national service rather than specifically military and that will allow people to choose the type of service they want to be in. >> you mentioned national service to tell us what you mean by that? >> we havete several types of service programs not just military you can join the peace corps or join americorps and something called senior corporate those are pre-existing service options but considering intentionally more that would be options that you could choose and if you don't want military service or don't want to go into the peace corps then you would have that as an option for your national service. >> let's talk to bruce who was calling from charlotte, north carolina. bruce is in the military. bruce, good morning. >> caller: good morning.ni yes, i served in the army in one

of the things i've had about the draft here i think it is fair and equal if they will have a draft but there is a problem of the pt test. they're changing the testing system for trainees and would like to know from your guest there that how does she feel about this full military army infantry or marines or anything like that -- >> sure, there are physical fitness standards required military members and i served in the army for 30 years and i was subjected to many fitness tests. what we have advocated for as an organization is that there be job specific physical standard

test and in fact, since women have been allowed to join these previously closed, activations the military services have moved to occupationally specific tests as well as the general fitness test. when a soldier comes into the military and drafted and they go through fitness tests in this test to determine which type of occupations whether they could physically perform and i think that would be applied to many women equally so if a woman can perform at the highest physically demanding jobs which they are doing today we now have women in the industry and armor and required to be the same occupational standards and certainly there is no reason for women to serve in the stops. >> there are some people disagree. last week the national commission on military public service held hearings and judy eden, female marine, iraq war

vet painter opposition to women in the military citing a high injury probability. here's what she had to say. >> one aspect in particular makes drafting women a losing proposition with negative returns. the wide disparity in women's injury rates and active duty military women averagenj two, tn times the injuries compared to military men and these rates have been constant over decades despite our advancements in training methods and medicine and nutrition. here are three stats for you. a survey of one of the army's striker for grades but deployed in 2012 found 58.8% of women versus 21.4% of men were injured. the american journal of sports medicine reported that quote, risk of acl injury associated with military training is almost ten times higher for women than for men.

a sex blind study by the british military front women were injured seven times more often than men while training to the same standards. these are the stats on military women who maintain high physical fitness standards and training demands. how is it fair to draft women for combat replacements when these are the facts and more importantly, how would this enhance our lethality against our enemies? a very fit women on military standards are injured at such higher rates drafting civilian women winning even higher turnover, diminish combat effectiveness, more casualties and you are a both men and women coming home alive. >> host: what is your response to her objections here? >> guest: what she does not say and she cites the marine corps study of a few years ago but

what she does not say and what was also in that study is that when they compare many women of equal fitness level the ground injury rates be the same i think the key is screening and major people are of equal levels of fitness and equal capabilities. it is interesting she's a critical because she herself was a marine who served embedded in marine combat units in iraq and yet she does not want women to be able to do the same thing that she did. it's perfecting to me to see hee before and was curious she herself had been one of the women was done the things and out do not think women should do them. >> of talk to charles who's calling from oklahoma on the independent line. charles, good morning. >> caller: morning. thank you for taking my call. >> host: go ahead. >> caller: hello. >> host: we hear you, charles, go ahead. >> caller: i'm opposed to the

women being drafted for two reasons. one is that we have -- it's been proven the injury rate is much higher because there are so many jobs in military services that could be held by women but need to be volunteer and let's let the men be free to do the combat that is necessary. we have proven really the draft is not even necessary and maybe certain circumstances and that's about all i have to sayay except it should be left up to congress and if in their wisdom they decide that women should register then i would still be against it but i could go along

with it because that would be the law of the land. >> there wasn't really a question there so i think i don't really have anything specific, and. >> host: letter to mike calling from iowa and mike's former military as well. mike, good morning. >> caller: how are you this morning? >> host: i'm doing well, go ahead. >> caller: women vote for the right to burn the bras in dc so damn right they should have the fight and comment. what disclosed them? there women i can show you 50 million studies about 50 million things that say 50 million other things. let the women fight. they deserve itth they are partf our country. that's all i have to say about that. what will you do with drumsre economy? i don't ever see you guys do a show and yesterday the numbers came out and he is awesome. he put the economyum in the

stratosphere we are not seen in decades. >> host: one of the things you .-ellipsis yet under the current selective service system you have to register within 30 days of your 80th birthday and failure to register has all types of penalties including this propagation from federal jobs student loans. impossible felony conviction, prison and fines. if women are included in the selective service should they face the same penalties as men? >> absolutely. it's interesting you mention that because i have two sons who have registered for selective service and i'm personally opposed to selective service broadly but my sons had to register and they went right into college and moved multiple times and in violation of the rules of the for the service because every time you move your supposed to notify them ofvile r

new address so they were repeatedly in violation of the rules as they exist and that, my younger son is still in college and still has in violation so there areco a number of problems with the existing lack of service one of which is this punishment process that they leverage against young men and of course young women at this point are completely exempt from it. not just exam but forbidden from purchasing but also have a daughter the one who served in military and not allowed to -- it's a peculiar system begun place right now. >> letter to joslin calling from california and joslin is also a s litary but doesn't, good morning. >> good morning, thank you for taking my call. what i would like to comment with regards to the lady you had on tv right now is that women who are in patrol -- i myself conducted patrols in the past and when you go to patrol and you use the restroom it took me five minutes to take off the

gear and ten minutes to put it back on. how does that pan out with regards to physicality and how would that add to the lethality of the military? >> host: before i turn to alan which did you serve in. >> caller: i still currently serve in an active memory duty. >> guest: yes, editing point she makes and that's been a number of workarounds and recent years for that and women can now be standing up frankly using a device called cup level of urinary diverter and something called the she we, men -- women get it to them now at basic training and you can pee standing up. it has a container and rinse it off and put back in your pocket and pete just like men do. very quickly you don't have to remove your gear or your equipment and women individually use those and swear byui them. i talk to women thinkers who said they can wear a coverall

and told me they can pee insidep their tank with all the guys around them and is not that many in a take but a few of them and without anyone knowing use it because ep inside a container and thanked him and women do the exact same thing standing up using this female urinary diverter device. >> host: there are some changes but they are not insurmountable for women in the military. >> and their already been made and implement it.ot she is right and there was a problem and i remember taking on and off heavy equipment to the bathroom and it was a pain in the neck. but now we saw that problem. >> host: let's talk to mark calling on their public and line from pontiac, illinois. >> caller: yeah, i was just wondering about --

>> host: mark, are you still there? >> caller: yeah, i still think women ought to have to sign up just likehi us guys do when we e 18 years old. >> host: no objections to women serving in the military? >> caller: no. i think they ought to goit. >> host: let's try barbara calling from winnsboro, north carolina. barbara is also military but barbara, good morning. >> caller: good morning. >> host: go ahead. >> caller: i just want to say i'm against the draft in all forms. the u.s. has become a war machine and also i want to state that in 1971 the u.s. government wanted me to have an abortion and when abortions were illegal but i just thought people should know that. thank you. >> host: let's write richard

calling from washington on the independent line. richard, good morning. >> caller: good morning. >> host: richard, can you hear me? b3 yes i can, can you hear me?, >> host: go ahead. >> caller: back in the day women bught to get into the military and -- >> host: richard, can you turn your tv down for us? >> caller: back in the day women fought to get into the monetary they are u.s. citizens and i believe they should have the right and plus they should have the responsibility. >> guest: we agree. >> host: what is the next step for that commission and when can we expect final report and what will be done with it once we see it? >> guest: final report is due to be released this time next year early 2020 and i think it will

have a number of recommendations and up to congress. they will have to make a decision at that point because we will have studied it now for two years and will have been three years since women couldwie serveil in all combat positions and other courts have agreed that women should register if men have to register. the courts will force congress' hands. i think at that point congress will have enough information based on what this commission discovered to make an informed decision. >> host: we talked about this earlier but many people have said that the draft should be eliminated completely and that the all volunteery, military foe is the only way to go for the american armed forces. where does your group stand on the question of whether there should be a draft at all. >> guest: we do not have a consensus in terms of organization to be used on this. i personally my personal view is that the draft and suck the

service is a very undemocratic institution and if we have to force people or citizens to fight our wars that we probably should not be in is worse in the first place. that is my personal opinion. they don't't have an organizational opinion except to say that whatever is good for men is good for them and we need to treat both populations the same because we are citizens of the same country and these are citizen response abilities. >> host: we've got treats from our viewers today. lisa writes -- this tweet says -- why do they want to put more americans at risk for some figures for.r.

>> guest: unfortunately, women cannot register at the local post office. they are forbidden from registeringisr.re. >> host: what would happen if an 18 woman tried to register for selective service? >> guest: they are rejected and told they can. they can join the military and that's one of the reasons this is not been a big issue for our organization and women can still serve and does not preclude women from serving but just preclude them from registering. >> host: brian, independent line, the morning. >> caller: good morning. >> host: go ahead. >> caller: i believe that the army is only for single men but if women want to register for selective service it should be at their options that they want to they should be able to but

should not be required to. i don't believeey the soldiers should have spouses and famili families. >> guest: that would eliminate a lot of our military today if we made people leave because they have spouses or families. >> host: have you all talk to actual active military members about their feelings about women not being allowed to be in the draft? is there a divergence of opinion inside the military as well as outside? >> guest: actually, the military is an usual personal agreement that they should have toe register. you only see this disagreement when you look outside the military at some of the civilian communities. i have hadyo heard women object and say i don't want to register for the draft and my response to that is most men don't want to register either in nor do they want to be drafted. it's unfair to leverage the

response ability or put that on their shoulders and women get a pass. >> host: how would our direct numbers change if women are w allowed to be in a but selective service and what is the pool now and what would the pool become? >> i don't know what the police but it would double the size and double the money we spent on what the service and they say it would not completely doublet because this is a system in place would be more robust and were not to create a new system but the people that manage selective service i'm sure the numbers would have to grow and it's about $24 million a year which is relatively small in the budget to manage the selective service system but it would have to grow especiallyr r . >> host: let's talk to paul calling from connecticut on the independent line. paul, good morning..li >> caller: i think women should go into the military for a couple of years.

a lot of kids getting out of school and no discipline and they don't know where they want to go and they may havesc or mae better decisions in life by having a couple years at least. >> host: paul, would you agree with the idea that all americans should serve to do some type of national service as a requirement like some countries do? >> caller: yeah, a couple years were not hurt them. >> host: would you agree or disagree with the idea ofth all8 -year-olds instead of draft be required for national service whether male or female? right now it's all volunteer but some countries like israel require everyone to do some type re national service, men and women. where do you stand on that idea? >> guest: again, i go back to the rotarian approach to this which is that i think this should be voluntary. i think it should be an option

or incentive and i like the idea but i don't think anyone should be forced intoo any kind of national service. >> host: of talk to cynthia from the democratic line. today, the morning. >> my comment is that i believe that it should be voluntarily for women to serve in the military as it is now and does not seem there's any reason to change it right now other than it's another opportunity to strike at the female vote and that is my comment. >> host: this is washington dc and we have 2020 presidential election coming up and is this an issue being talked about in presidential politics or any type of political race around the country? >> guest: not yet but i'm sure it will be discussed especially as time moves closer to the election as well as the fact edththat the support will come t

right around that same time. i am sure it will be a topic for discussion. >> host: have we seen any presidential candidate or major candidate in any office talk about the issue that should be talked about in political campaigns? >> guest: evening current roundup? i have not seen them discuss it so far. >> host: let's talk to dan calling from virginia on the republican line. good morning. >> caller: hello, good morning. i just like to make a few points and thank you for taking my call about support the commission findings by the republican president nixon and rick agree with that that the draft was not economically profitable for people's choices so i agree with that guest and secondly g openig the service to our military service formally excluded mos or

jobs like infantry two women did not result in a humongous tidal wave of interest or enlistments it'sresulted in that so propensity for matters. if you open the draft two women the draft of anybody been drafted is overwo 865 and do not have a choice in their job. when you try to convolute the choice of opening jobs to women that were formally excluded there's the word choices in there but the draft illuminates the world choice so what you are saying is you would take women and force them into the infantry and the closest like jobs areo ironman or police officers or oil rig workers, roughnecks and these are jobs propensities below 5% where women were able to do the work. what you are saying is if you open the draft two women then you will basically force them

into jobs they weren't naturallf propensity and it's been open now for two, three years for these jobs and to do so you are then getting against what the gates commission found in specifically for women. >> guest: that's an interesting point. i would argue that most men were drafted don't necessarily want to be in the infantry and they are forced to go and assume to be able to do the jobs whether or not they are capable or not. the key here is that you got to screen people, menan and women r what they are capable of doing. the notion that all men are capable in these jobs and few women are just defies reality and in fact, this propensity question about women wanting tos serve in these combat jobs is i call it a red herring and first of allou in the army alone now d over 500 women were gone into

the infantry and armor compete and women are not naturally going to be drawn to them if they don't see women there. i think the more women you see joining and succeeding will find more and more women are interested so this propensity argument -- again, that is a choice that men don't get to make and women should not get to make either. >> let's talk to ken calling from augusta, georgia. he is military. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i'm very interested in military i will tell you i do a lot of looking on the internet and a couple things that you never see pic you hear about it but you never see a woman out on patrol pictures of one with combat gear on and they are in a humvee of some kind. the other thing you don't see is and i've been looking for it is pictures of women doing army pt

tests. why is that? it was designed just for women but there's nowhere on the internet the picture or video of a woman actually doing the new army pt test. >> guest: if you'd like to -- if you like to see pictures of women actually wearing bucket on patrol i suggest the collar go to the vds or dv ids pentagons location or station where they post -- >> you find this and other washington journal segments online go to c-span .org. we leave this here now to check your life to the