have experience with civil society and a mild nationalist. . >> co-author of the book creating a white house counsel good morning to you when you say crisis how do you define that. >> that is a very high bar for me. to do badly in every single academic subject in all 56 of developed nations in the world especially badly here in the united states those who are

less academically inclined so they often drop out of high school with a sense of purpose then they get into drugs more than 20 percent are unemployed so they are doing very badly mental health wise. for boys and girls at the age of nine is equal that than a 14 it is twice as much for boys between 20 and 24. >> you don't see those trends with girls? . >> the boys life expectancy for the first time has gone down girls remain the same. but what i found what is the common denominator?

the developed nations allow forhi divorce and to have children without dads and the boy crisis resides where fathers do not reside. >> where did you get a sense this was a problem? . >> japanese teacher said we are having problems with boys canada and australia especially for mothers and teachers school say that most of those honor students that then they say they are the heads of companies but boys are also the great majority of the homeless anddy drug overdose

so this was a certainma percentage as people rising to the top for a large degree and children that were raised with a lot of father involvement. but boys and girls suffered 70 from lack ofs father involvement those that suffered in slightlysu different ways but the boys are more likely to commit the suicide with that addiction to video games was 70 major nightmares with the boys and girls. >> when it comes to this topic

asked about the questions and the finding ofwh the research when you do your research so what about the term toxic masculinity? and masculinity has a lot of toxicity it's not because of male privilege but rather historically have made sacrifices to historically to be a male you have to be trained to be disposable. so to be disposable you have to disconnect from your feelings to say otherhe people serve the country which is more important than surviving and to be what you needed to

doo so instead of being male privilege so out of that came the toxicity so now the first time in history we have two problems. the old sense of purpose that is bad news and good news. it gives boys an opportunity for a new sense of purpose as we have always had to be so this is an enormous opportunity to be directed to be a role model that is also channeled destructively instead of constructively. almostha all mass shooters are dad deprived boys so are the

prisoners in a small percentage of isis recruits that are girls are dad deprived girls. more than any other single cause was lack of data. >> with the research from those that study isis recruits on the mass shooters with the research that i did myself but the governor offo california and

with the imprint of masculinity to be put onto a boy. with that dad style parenting and mom style parenting are very different. and that creates a bond. and with end of verse one - - roughhousing. and then doesn't do it well. then to say sorry no more roughhousing tonight. and then to lose the roughhousing.

and then that teaches to be aggressive and then if she says i just have one more child but to lead to good social skills with that boundary enforcement but when boys and girlsms have dreams with a constant disappointment and for them to feel like and then they become withdrawn.

>> the book is the boy crisis santa cruz california you are on with our guest. >>caller: i am a single mom. my son is struggling in a lot of t areas and almost all the single moms that i know but a couple of questions about fathers and their role and what can a mom d do? . >> two very important questions. dad has a dad style parenting l that's very different from moms.

so dads are for more likely they all set boundaries the dads so but moms and you can have your i.c.e. cream cwhen you finish and they test boundaries now i had a few piece can i have my i.c.e. cream now? that the differences in the way moms and dads now they think we've had a tough day the child doesn't have a father go have 20 more peas that you could have your i.c.e. cream so they negotiate the deal so once they realize i will have these that i will negotiate but now they get in a fight over a few p-letter's. so the child learns i can negotiate ai better deal dad is

much more likely to say the deal is you have to finish your piece. that mom is not like that you are so mean so if you are whining there won't be any more i.c.e. cream tonight or witomorrow night. so that he realizes i have no option but to finish thehere pie but it is postponed gratification. you cannot get a better deal. but they are raised by dads they are only 15 percent adhd but raise predominate by mom it is 30 percent. because the children learn they don't have to focus their

attention on what they need to do but on the better deal. so what can single moms to? so to reinterpret love and with that boundary enforcement and with that sensitivity that moms tend to have it and then and then driving drunk so with that mom and dad style parenting and if those are helpful to let the father know that you appreciate those and

whenever it is needed and wanted. and then just because we are told they are wanted and second and then to get that biological father cannot be t involved in get them in a faith-based community with a good male leader or priest or minister or rabbi. make sure the mayo leader is contingent upon getting together withto other boys to talk about their fears and feelings. >> and then cub scouts of boy scouts. those are very good ways to develop masculinity without the worst part of masculinity.

not only team sports but pick up sports to create their own rules and to negotiate. >> and those parenting qualities why are they universally presen present? . >> they can be but they don't tend tonial be. so when i go around the world talking about the things i just mentioned moms and dads nod their head yes. but there are some schools like in new york city where children with very troubled backgrounds have female and maleth teachers to deal with these behaviors very early in life. and with that delay gratificationn and then

necessarily don't have to join and that those both sexes have to be mindful and conscious. >> let's hear from michael and maryland good morning. >>caller: good morning. my wife and i lived in the same home and now we are separated and we both work my daughter goes through this stage of her life everything

that i need to look out for. >> is there any way you can get to within 20 miles derived from each other? if there is a way if there is a divorce or separation what is helpful if they have about an equal amount of time with theveeqdr children. children that don't have equal time with the fathers where the mothers tend not to have the benefits of hanging out time if they don't have that benefits of hanging out time they don't express their feelingsgs as fully. so how did the soccer game go they will say okay. but you get around the

refrigerator and he's doing homework and you're hanging out with him that eventually dad, if he was the goalie last week and this week and you did reallywe well then why wouldn't i be goalie the next time? and if you are there listening to them and the daughter also. so equal amount of time with mom a and dad. second is that this child not feel there is anything and that doesn't just mean work but if you say i had a great time at moms and the dad said yeah and then change the subject b the child learns to

shut up about those good experiences with mom and no bad mouthing us over to number three live within 20 miles of each other or a 20 minutes drive because of the children are too far from the other parent they resent missing the activities or parties or friendships with their core group of friends and they don't want to go to the other parent's house and you don't want that type of tension. studies have found for those that are the best constant at least oncean a month not just for emergencies to find out that best intent phoenix,

arizona good morning. >>caller: thank you so much for this book it is amazing. i am a divorce coach in arizona and the trends that are disturbing just to hear your focus is enlightening. so when you seee these problems what is the best option if you see a mother that once the parents involved but in reality they make it so difficult. >> and second and five

wonderful chapters on adhd and how to prevent that so moms often playground that they had to keep the child safe but then impart enough to impart to

have a different way to look at that. they don't want that child to be beaten up so they can say what did you notice on that playground? but one kid push me aside but they were all drinking so the father feels it's more important for the child that maybe it is morere negative. tot themselves from having that experience the next time. the mother will often look at that situation and say, that was a neglectful dad. dads and moms have to have good conversations with each other about the different outcomes of the child having the security that moms often give from doing

that nurturing and the desire fd to have an experience that it can learn from. the same type of thing will be true with, mom and dad will have a child have to climb a tree. the mom will save maybe in a few years you can climb the tree. dads will say, go ahead and climb the tree but be careful. when dads and moms are communicating about it they start learning to work out compromises that tend to be of benefit to the child. you can climb the tree, but not this high. and dad, you have to be out there underneath the tree in case the child does fall so there's some value to that end dads have to know that climbing that tree does increase the child's iq. does increase the child's ability to make decisions as to what risks to take and what risks not to take. dads have to do reading about the contributions of dad style

parenting so they can lovingly explain those contributions to moms so moms don't just think dadsthe types of risks prepare children for our just sloppiness or laziness on dad's part. you write about something called gender liberation saying the degree to which our sons become as free as our daughters are is the degree to which we have taken a huge step. this requires a gender bothation movement freeing genders from the roles of the past. guest: i think one of the great contributions that we are looking forward to as we have these in norma's statements about male privilege, mail toxicity and so on. what is the best of what we had in the past? if the willingness to tough it out. the willingness to take risks.

the willingness to explore. these are good things that men learn. but take into their extremes they all become toxic. the past they became toxic because boys learn to be thought of as heroes if they were trained to be willing to die at the age of 18 and boys learn to give up what they love to do to make enough money to support families and children. and to do that you can't do things like be a musician. you have to sell insurance nationwide to do those types of things and often dads were doing what they didn't love to do. so instead of looking at males female, malesis are toxic, this is the end of men. don't speak because when you do it's man's planing. worlde in a patriarchal type of thing and you are part of that patriarchy. that leads our sons to not know what to do.

ifi initiate with a girl and i do am i going to be a sexual harasser? am i going to be very cautious and then be called a wimp? there has to be not a #metoo monologue. dialog.s to be a #metoo we have to train boys and girls in first grade and second grade to communicate and hear each other's pain and hurt and stories before the boy responds saying i have a tougher story. here's what i heard you say. is there anything else i'm missing. and we have to train parents to communicate in that way. the boy crisis is to a large degree a lack of father involvement. but the lack of father involvement is also a result the divorce -- of divorce. the divorce as a result of bad commune occasion. we can train kids to have good communication in schools and then come home to have parents who aren't commune kidding well at home otherwise we will destabilize the family in a

different way. the children will have no respect for the parents. were toy have to if we focus on any single thing is number one we need to have communication skills training all around the world. in denmark where they are doing this it has been very successful. you really need to have a white house counsel on boys and men. a white house counsel on boys and men would say here is an opportunity. are seeing that boys issues are a problem and boys have the opportunity to have less rigid roles. the board of the national organization for women for three years and i have and always will support a large range of roles of opportunities for girls but we need to have the same for boys as well. host: how did they react to some of these findings? iesco well and poorly. will in the sense that a lot of feminists do understand the value of gender liberation.

there is a group getting together, the largest feminist conference in the world is happening on june 3 and fourth and they are talking about a u.n. study that found that girls and women will not make progress until boys and men also make progress. i was good friends with betty for dan and gloria steinem for many years. betty wrote in the second stage exactly this. gloria would say what the world needs is more women at work and more men at home. you tikrit a world that is liberated enough to be able to have women in the workplace without any problems at high men to be full-time dads and to be what i call father warriors. barriersme the social of being ostracized if you are a full-time dad and recognizing that some men are more oriented toward nurturing and our

wonderful dads and to know that children brought up by men predominantly while the mother is working and coming home those children grow up extremely well. from duane inar chattanooga, tennessee. caller: could mourn. -- good morning. conferencet the working with students in chattanooga. today we have about 20 dads. in this group we talk about things that are in this book bringing together judges, magistrates, da's, attorneys. deal with visitation and custody. teaching these guys how to get

custody. i was wondering if you could touch on that a little bit. 50-50 parenting and the importance of 50-50 parenting visitation. -- versus visitation. some footwork with this book and some of the other things that we are trying in our community. talking to ladies about this book is just as impactful as talking to men. one young lady says this information is like medicine. to me. getting houses. you see guys getting parental rights. you see guys just stepping up to the plate based on this information that they are getting through in a and your book.

host: thank you peered we will let our guest respond. guest: the four things that are really essential if there's a divorce or children growing up time and parenting equal amount of time with father and mother is so important. be, kentuckyould is the only state that really has this now and other states are moving toward that, the children that do best are the ones that have a significant amount of father involvement afterwards. as i said at the outset of the program, girls do suffer a lot and 70 different areas as well as the boys suffering in 70 different areas when they don't have that father involvement. girls suffer less intensely. boys often feel abandoned and rejected. there is so much that father involvement tends to bring. dads will tend to make the boundaries very strict. moms will set dead times at an

earlier time. dads will set dead time at a later time. the studies show children actually get to bed earlier with the dads because the dads will if the children don't get everything done that they need to get done like their teeth brushed and their homework done, dads will say you lose your reading time. you lose the fun time. and the dead will tend to be able to do things like have a lot of fun with the child before the child goes to bed and moms will tend to go, you can't into havinge child roughhousing before the child goes to bed get the child all excited. the data does not show that that's true. the child that focuses on knowing it is going to have some fun before it goes to bed is able to get the things done that it needs to do. the main thing that needs to happen is that dads need to do their homework and understand why they are valuable. the second thing that needs to

happen is there needs to be a new change in the culture. just as we said 50 years ago or so that we want and need women in the work place. we need not just physical beings called women. we need women in the work lace because their values, their orientations, some of their skill sets will tend to be different and when we have minimum and together in the work lace there will be an optimal outcome for that. the same is true with dads at home. one of the most important fights we can do in this country is fighting for there to be father involvement in every family and where there absolutely cannot be for there to be very good step fathering, very good way scouts, cub scouts, faith-based communities. daughtersdad to two and i felt that i would be just

fine as a stepdad. the research did not prove -- i think i have in a good stepdad but the children really have a biological attachment to their father that needs to be -- anything that i did when i started doing research for the boy crisis that was positive was to inspire the biological father to be more involved with the child and he was more involved with the child as he was told that he was needed and he was wanted. we have to remember that throughout history when we told men they were needed in that generations war, men were willing to die to do what they were needed to do. that's the message we need to be giving to fathers now. crisis co-written our guest warren farrell and john gray. that's the topic of our discussion for the next half hour. parents (202) 748-8000.

all others (202) 748-8001. david is in detroit, michigan. good morning. pedro and mr.you farrell. upon a number of different issues that i had always thought about i think that as a rule boys are pack beings and we cleave to in teams and packs. believe in order for us as an antidote, and my thing is that more boys that are included in some typhoon sport in jr. high or high school make a difference between them going off and finding a gang and other antisocial behaviors. what do you think about that?

importantr is very because there is a purpose void i talked about at the outset of this show of boys not having their sense of purpose. if you have a purpose void and a dad void combined, boys have no place to channel their testosterone. so their testosterone tends to get channeled destructively. if you go from a female only ,ome to a female only school boys have no male role models that are constructive which is a lot of where you are headed there. one of the things we need to do is make sure there were significant at least equal numbers of male teachers and that the type of male teachers that there are are not just imitation female male teachers but males who are more traditional males. males who are softer males. so that the boys have a whole spectrum of males that they can identify with just us girls growing up have a whole spectrum

of females. that's one thing that can help boys not from female only homes to female only schools and then wonder why they get attracted to a drug dealer or a gang leader and a destructive type of way. you're absolutely right. the father involvement in sports is what you mentioned. sports is very important not only boys but also for girls. there's three types of sports that are what i called the liberal arts of sports that are very important for your child to master. likes individual sports gymnastics. number two is team sports like soccer and volleyball and so on. number three is pickup team sports as we have been worried about children being safe have gotten dropped out of their culture and that is a very important part of the process of training our sons and daughters to be entrepreneurs. we need to encourage our

daughters also to be in pickup team sports because girls often times don't take the risks as easily as boys. they don't start things from zero. pickup team sports teaches you to go up to somebody that you don't know and say do you want to join me in basketball and if so to replace full-court or half-court? are you the type of person that doesn't want any fouling to happen at all? are you the type of person that says throw me the ball just because you want to take the shot and you want to hog it all to yourself? there are so many things you learn when somebody is not supervising you with a set of rules and you have to discover the rules by yourself. this is perfect preparation for being an entrepreneur. team sports is very good preparation for being a corporate player or a player and organization. individual sports is wonderful for self starting. moms and dads should be talking together about how they are going to require their children

to be involved in these. when i was step parenting my very younger children i wanted to get them involved in soccer and the children did not want to get involved in soccer. the woman who is now my wife said, they shouldn't have to get involved in soccer if they don't want to. and my response was very different. i said, we as parents need to require them to get involved in soccer. they don't have to do it forever. but at least to try it for a year or whatever activity they want to that was a team sport. checks andype of balance parenting that requires good communication and both mother and father to not respond to a different suggestion by the other parent as criticism and then become defensive. if i were to encourage parents to do one thing it would be to take couples communication

courses to be able to hear personal criticism without becoming defensive. that is the single biggest achilles' heel of all human beings. what leads to more do voices which leads to the boy crisis. host: let's hear from gwen in detroit, michigan. caller: thanks for having me. [inaudible] at first i was thinking, a lot of single women who have raised -- i felt that i was successful. my mother died. my father raised five kids. i married. and then divorce.

had two small children. i decided to go back to school. my father did nurture me and give me confidence and everything. my children have their own families now. she married and her husband got divorced. she has three children. but he was not as supportive. and i encourage her, there's lots of children raised without their fathers. but just yesterday she was in tears when she was telling me that her son didn't want to go to graduation. he really wanted to go to his regular high school.

anyway, what i'm saying is he has been in a lot of trouble. my grandson pete her youngest child. the other two have -- one is in college. the other one is away. lives on his own. the youngest one, he has been in trouble. it's been a struggle with him. his father just doesn't want to interact. he puts the wall up. time, he's building his life moving from house to house. host: appreciate the comment. we will let our guest respond. is a: what you're saying very common pattern as i think you have already heard me say. the most important single thing

that fathers need to hear is, so many fathers tell me, i feel like when i do things my way i'm criticized for doing it by my way. it's too tough on the child. boundary enforcement is often interpreted as being too tough on the child or the roughhousing is too rough on the child. having different risks or the father will want to take the child camping. and is perfectly fine about the child going longer distances than the mother would feel comfortable with. sometimes the child will get lost and that proves to the mother that that really is a neglectful father. so dads really need to share with moms and know the value of those things. share that with moms. but moms if you want a biological dad involved, you need to value him. you need to know how much men

respond to being needed and especially by the woman that they love. there's nothing that drives men more than hearing how they are needed and if a man feels that each time he does something with the child he is criticized for it or told he is endangering the child, what he will do is go off and earn money. because earning money, he knows that you will want the money. everybody will want the money. a new woman in his life if he is divorced will want the money. so he has learned that he's more valued as a human doing than he is as a human being translated into a parent. that's a whole cultural message that we have to send that it's very different than the cultural message we have been sending. each individual mom needs to message ofning that knowing that if we told men that they will be loved and we will if they areh them

walking on their hands, men would be having hand walking contests tomorrow. women need to know how powerful their messages are to men just like women oftentimes put a lot of makeup on and they try to lose weight because they feel that men want than are women who look a certain way. you know as a woman how much you respond to messages that you feel will give you love, approval and affection and attention and men are the same way. in mill valley, california. caller: good morning pedro. i have a question for warren farrell about the coalition to create a white house counsel on boys and men. can you tell us a little bit more about what that is and what you are doing with it today?

guest: it's funny you should ask that because i was originally contacted by the obama administration to be an advisor to the white house counsel on women and girls. that never ended up manifesting. i said yes. i also felt that it was important to have a white house counsel on boys and men so the response at the time was to create a proposal and send it off to president obama. it stopped just short of president obama, but we are still fighting today 10 years later to have a white house counsel on men and boys. because there's almost no government commissions saying to the country, boys and men are having problems. and they are having problems that are particularly egregious here in the united states. here in the united states we have cut back on things that help boys succeed like vocational education, recess,

permission to be a bit more rough with each other. and the most important thing, we need to put that -- the fact that boys are having some a problems on the national agenda. this can be done with an executive order by the president. once you put it on the national a privatether you are association of psychologists or publicnization that is a service organization you are likely to have your next conference about it. your next conference on psychology about what is the psychology of boys and men as opposed women and girls and how can they be melted. how can we move to a gender liberation movement where both sexes stories are heard up until now, you may have heard i was on the board of directors of the national organization for women in new york city. we shared how the feminist experience of female

powerlessness and male power. but no one to this date has shared the male experience of male powerlessness and the mail experience of female power. so we haven't taken binoculars to the other half of the gender dialogue. and so that's what i'm asking that we put on the agenda of the nation in the next 10 to 15 so that we can have a true gender liberation movement encouraging both sexes to be free from the rigid role of the past and to more flexible caring rules of the future that allow each boy and girl to discover his or her unique self so that they can have that unique self be nurtured by both mothers and fathers. host: what would you say about this issue to same-sex couples with children? guest: we don't have great data on how same-sex couples with children will turn out. the reason for that is we either very feministom

oriented and same-sex couple oriented populations or very conservative organizations that east that each ask questions that create answers that are sort of predestined. and we haven't had a large enough number of same-sex that have raised children long enough to know exactly how they will turn out. there's a huge amount of encouragement that comes from same-sex couples having an opportunity to -- they've oftentimes had a lot of cultural overcome resist and and they are very good at being able to help their children overcome a lot of those cultural biases. hope in's a lot of children being raised by same-sex couples. but they do have to make sure that their attitude toward males a positive rather than negative one.

host: here is aisha in capital heights, maryland. caller: good morning. your last question touched on my question my wife and i are raising an 11-month-old son. i was raised predominately by a single father. i went to my moms on a weekend. they had a great coparenting relationship. i definitely saw the differences in their parenting styles that your guest has mentioned. as we are raising this son and we both have sisters, we don't have brothers. we are just trying to figure out how to move forward. faith-based some options might not necessarily be available to us as far as developing male role models for him. we are just wondering how as two moms we can best raise our son. very good.prayed take a look at the sections in the book where i talk about the

differences in dad style parenting versus mom style parenting and immerse yourself in balancing out what might be the natural view versus making sure your son is encouraged to do that pickup team sports. make sure your son gets involved in boy scouts and cub scouts. cub scouts have a lot data on character development. being very positive among cub scouts versus control groups of equivalent boy backgrounds that did not have an immersion in cub scouts. if the faith-based community is not appropriate for you. don't push it aside automatically. get your son involved in faith-based communities growing up, make sure that the most important part of faith faith -- faith-based community is your son being involved with other boys his own age as he

grows older so as boys tend to cut their feelings off as they do as puberty approaches that they see that other boys that are going through the same experiences that they are going through. that's one of the great preventers of drug use and drug abuse and withdrawal into videogame addiction and corn -- as the boy gets into puberty. make sure your child cannot rule. when you say that he needs to eat the peas before they get the ice cream that in fact the child does not manipulate better deals with you. meanhe terrible twos don't that you are tending to give into your child in order to keep your child quiet. make sure your child is getting responses on your part that rewards his good