good evening everyone. welcome to town hall and thank you all for being here. we will adjust a little bit. we are still experimenting in this space. thank you for the suggestion. i'm a curator of lectures here town hall and on behalf of town hall and pleased to welcome me to tonight's appearance by author fear and freedom at the oregon standoff discussing -- anthony mccann discussing his new book "shadowlands." i'm happy to say the taxpayers of washington state as part of the project. i love all of our funders but i especially love public funding for the arts. i'm hoping this might be a return to town hall for some of you who are familiar with this building but haven't been back for couple of years. during that time we have been renovating this is the soft watch for the space for barn cat phase service yet to come on line so bear with us.

september is the formal launch of town hall with the big festival of programs we recently announced a consumer web site town hall seattle.org. we hope you'll check us out to the meantime we are happy to reopen the program suspicion this room which is a new space for us. thank you for being our people here. a couple of you have said it's a little cold in here. we have adjusted the thermostats and are trying to make it more comfortable. i'm sorry about that. in the meantime as we are experimenting we are so happy to host authors like anthony mccann. we desperately want to jump on this because he is a powerful voice in a voice to lend himself itself to this important topic for america and the northwest are attending and using poetic and literary sensibility to enter the sex with the political and social forces and that's exactly what we like to do here town hall. if this is your first town hall event please keep in touch with

us. thank you very much of the members in the room. membership is information is available in all the same places. the format is going to be a talk that should be 45 to 50 minutes. afterward to a time for q&a. we are grateful to the good people at c-span booktv to be here tonight recording this. partly for that reason we would love a wiki give people who have questions to act's questions on the microphone. the microphone it will move out. the microphone it will move out will make it to the q&a section so if you're able to make your way around or you can line up along the wall when we get to q&a. if you're not able to you been asked the question we will pass over the microphone. after all that there will be a book signing. we have copy of the book "shadowlands" available and anthony will be signing afterward. now what you are here to see tonight. anthony mccann was born and raised in the hudson valley although i recently learned there was chatting that he lived a block away from here in the mid-90s right before this

organization was built in 1999. he's the author for collections of poetry including moon garden and i am heart, you are fate. anthony's teaching writing research interests include 21st century north america poetry of clinical theology political ecology native american history history of the revolutionary constitutional and reconstruction eras ecological history of american the american west cultural anthropology modern latin american poetry and anarchist thought and practice that pertains to politics and spheres of human endeavor. that eclectic infesting list of interests can give you a beginning sense of why his voice was suited to lend itself to the story. he is the poet laureate of the machine project project and teaches courses at the california institute of the arts as well as the university of california riverside home desert program. as i've mentioned he's here

tonight to discuss his new nonfiction book anthony mccann -- "shadowlands" fear and freedom at the oregon standoff. please join me in welcoming anthony mccann. [applause] [laughter] >> there's a lot of excitability in the story. if you are familiar with that. this book is a nonfiction book but it is not in the same vein as many such books. in the introduction i come to this not as a traditional

journalist. as you heard in introduction i come to this story not from a career as a traditional journalist but as a creative writer and as a poet. and that informs how the project was a fraction how the book was written so i will be sharing a sequence of passages that follow a certain thread through the story to which very important content is attached. there are many strands of the story. i'll explain how i came to be obsessed enough with the story to write this book that i've lived in the mojave desert and around the time i had moved to the desert i was writing what i thought was a very different kind of work may be more

associated with poets and poetry are at a that's what i was doing. turns out that's not what i was doing. i thought i was writing about essays about the experience of the desert and make spring to time in history and where the experience of time is dislocated i was particularly interested in ideas of messianic times and associated with around the time that happened the research of the book of the #me too a lot of reading about the native american messianic movements especially the ones who had many in messianic moments across the country but some of the most famous to place in the great basin desert. around the time that i was doing that research a group of people profess to very different messianic credo.

in the beginning of 2016 in an event i assume you guys remember a little bit that got a lot of coverage and a lot of people paid a lot of attention to it at the time a lot of things have happened since then. maybe you've forgotten some of the details of what happened basically was a man named ammon bundy a rancher in cliven bundy who couple years earlier in 2014 had to stand off at their ranch the bundy family ranch in malheur national forest over long-standing dispute over the management of federal land. regulations on cattle grazing right about by a deal that the city of las vegas was able to make in order to keep growing after the desert tortoise was

listed as an endangered species but the place where the bundy family raised their family the bundy family chose not to choose is in no longer recognize the federal government for what many believe is creative constitution. another ranching family in harden county nevada caught the attention of ammon bundy and inspired by the holy spirit is to hear the second he felt compelled almost against his will he plan to intervene in the story and that led a --of the refuge and a whole other sequence of events that have been going on for a number of years and in which i've been following ever since the story happened in january 2016.

i will begin at the beginning. with ammon ammon and give you al for the instigator of the whole drama. can everybody hear me? does everything sound okay for you guys back there? louder? let's see, how's that? we will see here how we can do it. i can get a get rally. i have enough water though. we are going to begin from the beginning with dear friends. my dear friend ammon bundy began every time someone hits play from 2016 all the way to the end

of the internet. the first in an already agitate nation on the pathways of collective virtual tap on knuckle of the world wide web in a couple of profit this facebook was calling his people to the desert. his friends were called the patriot movement activating and sitting back and filled their hearts with urgent fuming. he was time a mint said to take a hard stand. he is received pushback and calamity in front of the camera to clear things up. he was at his desk in a cowboy hat. weeks later on a mountain road in oregon's hardluck national forest he were a fast and assured and neatly trimmed beard

ammon bundy couldn't help seat but what he was the modern day st. clean cut to the core. the strongest voir dire anyone heard was creep or before being summoned to the desert making apple pies for his neighbors from apples from his orchard in delivering the pies themselves. the quiet i love that are most long over. the video address to the on line committee before leaving the next day to the wildlife refuge. his icon doing it's quite intrepid work of right-wing holy insurrection. in his idiom which he entitled in friend and then went to

oregon two months earlier with two branches of father and son. mandatory federal sentencing guidelines sent him back to prison charges which he had already served time.ammon founds also rancher. that conflict to come to a head in april of 2014 when an armed standoff in 2014. inner marcos and an armed standoff with federal agents as a victory for bundy. the standoff and the struggle with the aftermath of a life-changing actions fell far

from southern nevada new home in the sagebrush of idaho on the outskirts of -- he himself is not a rancher and moran had not been for years. he ran the trucking fleet headquartered in arizona. as it turned out the move to idaho in the part of god's larger plan for himself and his friends and america. but then something will strange about the move even at the time. he and his wife lisa had a simultaneous urge to relocate. he had been a feeling that it dispenses from nowhere. they couldn't understand entirely but they found anyway and headed out in the spring of 2015 traveling and looking at houses. nothing have been quite right but then on the last day of their trip they had come to this very last house in a beautiful

valley and emmett idaho and known instantly that this was the place. it was one of many decisions they may not be guided to the ear project is to aim its mind had all been providential but how else would explain into moving within three hours of harden county were good with the whole story which it done nothing about at the time that it taken place and now here he was just a few months later rarely settled into his new home asking his on line committee to join them in oregon to take a moment to stand a stance of biggie said that nothing less than the future of american freedom might be at stake. after the move to i do's next big revolution had come late monday evening in november of 2015. on january 1 seat in front of his camera told the tale of that night to his on line followers. lying in that in his family's new home tired after a long day he received a message on his phone a link to it another article about the hamas. in the past to shrug it off the case. i felt our family is fighting

hard not to explain to did need to fight someone else's battles but this time something was different. and urge quickly to possession of him. sudden impulse to learn all he could about this family. search engine and read everything he could find about the case. unable to sleep you read on into the done. come summarize his darkened the research was followed by a second urgent desire he recognizes divinely inspired this is an impulse to expression but i felt the surge again this desire to begin to write. wasn't he the first writing rarely is. my motion about the hammonds and the content after i saw was happening and found that what was happening to them is the same that happened to us of my emotions were clouding my thoughts but an inspiration came to him which often seems to come mysterious what he ends from some roster. i got a my niece and i asked lord and i support if you want me to write something then please help me clear my mind and show me what i should write.

among the many other images to come our story will start with this one. a bewildered and overtaken men baking the unseen power to cloud his mind "the view" writes that he might simply sit down and begin. ammons is devoutly religious and his religion was born in the mystical writing performance. in the book of mormon's golden tablets discovered in the famous burned over district of western new york translated from unknown ancient tongue of divine guidance in the cold flair by the inspired founder profit of the latter-day saints. poorly educated and enthusiastic they possessed a remarkable imagination. young justice that the dedicated much of his adolescence ananda doak said two local crazed treasure hunting but seems to have consisted directly robbing the mysterious native american burial grounds in the area but unaware of the liturgical

potential of his first literary work smith initially hoped his book of mormon would strike lucratively into the rich vein of the current media for theory slinking origins of native americans to the tales of the old testament. his immediate hope his immediate hopes seem to have been that the book success might save his parents farm from foreclosure. the book would arrive in time to save the smith family farm but it came to do so much more tapping into the current powerful evangelical feelings convulsing the american frontier in doing so it would utterly transform the life of its author can change the lives of millions of within the history of the young american republic. america loves to make fun of its mormons. so many of the mormon clichés of ammons video were already well-worn tropes of american popular religious experience even the time of the prophet but to laugh them off then and now is to realize how this religious experience found themselves

reemployed ahead of smith as singler fontev rural american -- smith was a master committee cater to the tweeted something as about the volatility of his times was. what they asked was. what they asked for and was possible in a pretty called that ever loving often credited occasional crystal-clear understanding of god. while hammonds intonations may not have matched the grandeur of smith's feuded his understanding of the whisperings and emotions of visit him at the way they condense something about her time were very much in line with his prophets his prophets for the two misinterpretations of the divine guidance they felt different only when it came to ammons emphasis on feeling. smith described the sensation of revelation is a pure intelligence that would enter him but it may give you stroke civitas so by noticing you may find it fulfilled the same day or so and those things that were presented onto your mind by the spirit of god through to him another acanthus external intelligence seems to represent the times primarily as the

intensity of emotion urge obsession sympathy outrage in need. the more he had become emotionally involved in the tribulations of this one ranching family from their amodei desert aboard in their amodei does it afford anymore hammond had come to see himself as a conduit of vehicle for the expression of god's feelings god's feelings about america. i began to understand how the lord felt about the hammond sees told us internet friends of my first day of 2016. i began to understand how the lord felt about hardy county about this country and they clearly understood the lord was not pleased with what was happening to the hammonds and if it was not corrected it would be a shadow of all what happened to the rest of the people across this country. mostly it wasn't her writing that hammond conveyed gods feeling strickland lives as well as for do you do see of the facebook or youtube videos the co-feeling that is the one the

revolution. in keeping with the antarctic tendencies of social media the patriot community as many members many liters and ever shifting priorities and tom but for those attached to the body caused the single most important focal point greatest source of inspirational feeling has remained ammons himself his life his voice his face especially his face. there's an artist doesn't open as of expression and to care to ammons faced that uncommon of men among the american right-wing. throughout his video addresses his bearded countenance poor satellite stream of concern into the camera and the hearts of his viewers. his expression remained virtually unchanging to open, always open from beginning to end and his dear friends video his eyes are white. sometimes when he blinks you can see the deliberate mike -- mike wrote muscular effort to keep his peepers open effortlessly. browse point to the crown of his head hidden under his cowboy

hat. he served to push back his brow enlarging is fairly large and expressive look while his hands move in soft emphasis to the slow clear cadences of the slight nevada towing travel while his head is held at the slight puppy dog tilt. there is no limbo like apoplexy no snide part art affect here.ae of masculinity right-wing version of the sensitive man whose public faces appears jim everett time concerned that he is consistently putting forth a never interviewed for press conference and every appearance of the witness stand delivering his payload of sincerity to it every time. few even among his worst enemies have doubted that ammon bundy mostly means what he says that the full power of ammons direct to address comes from his ability to make it clear how much he really means it and maybe most importantly for the faithful just how much through him is god really cares. fear just that it ripped ammon

sent him to the queen writing were far from finished. once got it cleared his mind and the writing had come it led only to the development of stronger understanding and urge the further revelations of god's desires and an irresistible impulse to travel to know the land of oregon first-hand to go to the place where all would be revealed. once he got the letter written he told his followers that help this desire this urge to go to burned and go to the hammonds ranch. desire surged shadows and types or story begins with huge feelings historical feelings types and shadows are key figures in mormon doctrine for history is always revealed history and human time is always unfolding. the dispensation of the fullness of time this joseph smith like to say quoting from ephesians. sometimes when i listen for the first ergen occurs may see these doctrinal shadows and their precursors to historical types that cast them as windswept clouds dragging their plots of

shade alongside them over the golden but as he drives on sealed in his holy double of urge. there he goes tiny now snaking along the malheur river on an ill-fated oregon trail. i follow him and he goes on crossing of the drink water pass into the harney basin in a land called malheur.ammon had noticed malheur so prevalent in this immense swath of the story in meant misfortune in french. would this sign it mattered? he was receiving so many. he had another one to arrive is the approach. as he was hit into the outskirts who receive more divine direction again an overwhelming feeling. suddenly he knew he was supposed to change his route not stop at the hammonds house in town. said he was to drive south over the great for head of that but

that divides the burns from the wide-open marshes at the hearty basin. he dropped instead huge bowl of wind and distance to which he was about to bring so much human calamity. and calamity he brought. over the next couple of months in his efforts to organize a resistance to the hammond family being returned to prison they've been convicted of arson charges or in the middle of their trial they agreed to plead guilty to remaining charges and they were supposed to be sentenced under a mandatory sentencing guidelines but the judge in the case decided those mandatory sentences were too excessive and on the last day, his last a the bench the day he retired he handed out lesser sentences in the hammonds recent two prison service census and came back but in that time the federal government had appealed the sentencing and they won the appeal so the hammonds were being sent back to prison which

is the case that galvanized ammons world and particularly a. he came to town he was trying to convince the sheriff of harney county a man named ward to protect them and not allow them to return to prison under an idea that maybe some if you're familiar familiar with that has a certain currency especially in the westco via a difficult situation is share. you've been hearing it in washington and oregon in relation to weapons bans and it often is mobilized around sheriff's refusing to enforce new firearms restrictions. the idea which has the crazy providence which i won't go into now but i explored in the book the county sheriff is the highest law enforcement official in the land because he's the only elected law enforcement official and also therefore it through true return on what the constitution means about the

supreme court. dave ward didn't agree and he refused to do this.ammon discovo have to do something else to say the hammond family because saving the hammond family was required by god. and his need to save america. therefore he did a number of things including creating basically a shadow government in the county of local dissidents to invite him and to protect for the hammond family at this point have distanced themselves from him and didn't want temperature protect them so the focus kept getting larger to the point where on the day of a march in support of the hammonds were going back to prison a couple of days am and led a breakaway group from that march that one out 30 or 40 miles out into the desert into the marshlands of the desert and took over the refuge. he ordered to begin the task and

quickly announced overturning all the federal public land of america to the people because for ammon it's unconstitutional if there is such a thing. i'm going to read a little bit about that moment when they did that. the wonderful thing the lord is about to accomplish ammon was proposing much more than he let on in his dear friend video address in his on line flow -- followers knew it. he wouldn't publicly announce the location of this proposed hard stand until an hour before the scheduled march and the diner that doubled as an antique emporium not the only establishment in burns. the name of the diner added more of when were too about what was to unfold within about rooms hidden away behind of the 20 century bric-a-brac gumball machines and old photographs antique pram suit red wagons dangling overhead ammon finally

and up plan the lord had revealed to him in early december. clustered around the table was a group made up mostly of out-of-towners through some to the bundy family well and others in attendance harley knew how they ended up the river now.amme lord's revelation put out his final call to the faithful. robert lavoie vatican was sorry to on its way north to join them he brought ammons for the ride along for the ride. the foster care specialist from the canyonlands of the isolated arizona strip had befriended the bundy family in april of 2014. maybe no one was a powder veteran of the standoff at the bundy ranch then lavoie. totally realigned his priorities and send them out on what would prove to be a one day road. once in oregon finicum thomas m. hensley emerged as the public face of the act patient would have face it was. polished by wind and sun and skin that always seemed pulled

extra taught around to school as if expressing the ideological intensity of this otherwise develop more of me -- develop mormon cowboy. the boy was a practicing cowboy and he lived to just the part down to the revolver in the friends to silver studded leather chaps whose experience with the battle of bunker hill which is the bundy ranch date for very different narrative from most broadcast on the news and on the social media outlets that the militia type it into. for finicky in the event unfolded respect to the temple to slow determine truck powered by the measured nonviolent resistance of himself and his fellow horsemen. ..

he said he never had any columns of the agency. there were more isolated corners. it's always been a place where they want to be left alone. it would have been easy to assume he wanted peace with his family. would have been easy to assume vegas and others would never reach out to someone. that's not how it was though. whether was possible to even happen battle. if there was any chance of it happening to himself, this seemed to have been too much.

in that time period, there was fear that more national monuments would be designated. there had been more designated in the last 20 years. in 2015, he initiated his own struggle. that year in the enchantment your address, his own refusal over the comments. no longer did he accept it over his national rights. videos and proved himself to be appealing and consent. he was always steadfast and relative. it turned him into an icon. in part one, viewers were introduced in full buckaroo mode. they closed down in the streams of colors. you can hear him dangling and

scrape. she can't beside him. she wasn't out here just like her master. you can see the world, it's good out here, he says. you can see more in canyonlands distant in the horizon. it's a gentle breeze and they are munching away. it does look good out there. the high desert meadow is rich with the grass.

what kind of green it is. he hasn't grazed this in six years. he has looked more closely across his cattle. they're looking good. then he's off on a lecture about his crazy life, how he owns the grass, not the land. i watch him pet his dog and point out the mountains and grass and trees. why am i drawing back to hear him talk about his wife again and again? it is beautiful other. i listen to him talk about his wife. the first time i saw his video was a day he was shot and killed by police officers. i sat down at a table in the back room to listen to him.

the last people to enter that room was an ex- mormon turned do. each specialist by trade traced his family history back multiple generations. he's a westerner through and through. hunter and adventure through the west. spent some time with him and before long, one of his hunting expeditions tracking of acorn or antelope. under the cold brewing stars, just, a glorious moment of a kill. there can't read with taxidermy, each in itself. another proud veteran, but they used to call the paranoid fringe. it seems more like a character than a maniac conspiracy

theorist. i spent hours engrossed by his infusions letting his exploration mingle, libertarianism, right-wing conspiracy and 19th century in the mormon church. in the middle of this, he read off scriptures. he explained the messianic time describing his government agents, detailing the moment of death of a big corn ram. city pigeons, always seems to be enjoying what he believes to be the final game of human history. he arrived a couple of days

four. he was waiting for the march to begin that morning. he approached organizers and was told to go away. their conversation was confidential. the woman had come up behind him and he never saw her face. you are wanted over there, she said. without even questioning her. that was strange. the man he recognized as john from the restaurant and down the

hallway to a locked door. the door opened and the two men were are shared inside. i don't think they would have let me in. i wasn't part of that. later when he told everyone about the lawn woman, they all thought he was crazy. no woman knew about this meeting. he tried without success. he has come to think that the possible, the stranger may have possibly been angel. they were invited to head out and take over the national wildlife refuge. a place most of them have never heard of. my hand went up. they later recounted this mome moment. you telling me all these years we've been trying, step back, we keep moving around, you think this is a peaceful step forward to reclaim? yes, that is what he meant. i said, that is.

is ready before he really understood. i was the first person to tell him. i knew instantly, once it comes in, you have a choice. i recognized it and had to make a quick choice. so you don't lose the spirit. i knew what i was up against. i made a quick decision before fear entered my heart. god couldn't act in a world where humans were in spirit. was up to everyone to decide for themselves. whether this is a righteous cause or not, whether i am some crazy person or whether the board truly works in individuals, it was accomplished. when you stand, others will stand with you. god can't stand with you if you don't stand.

you can expect the hand of providence to be over here. before rising from his cowboy crouch and finishing off screen. office was for folks like him. more souls hung in the bounds. the decision have been easier because he hadn't taken the expedition all that seriously. he was a spiritual inspiration. he didn't understand whether or not to follow him. they were local majors. they wanted to set up a table and stayed back, leaning against the wall. as soon as his plans were revealed, they had gone out the door. another man who ran to see, he

didn't go so quietly. was totally against it, he told me. there was much to object to. he didn't have the support of a share for legitimate business. parker said he was no better than the feds. he was practically screaming. he was shaking, was so angry and pointing his finger. he couldn't figure out what it was about. calling me stupid, but i didn't get it. what is all this drama?

it would be on vacation, talking about an extension. it might be a little dangerous. i was really naïve. after the meeting broke up, they agreed to head up. they called themselves the tip of the spear. they assembled in the parking on the edge of town and headed over to round up more supporters. after they kneel in prayer to consecrate their intention, gentlemen, once we crossed that, there is no turning back. he was baffled by his intensity. he began to wonder something else. what does he know that i don't? skip this part here. we don't have time to learn about the ministry. he was a messianic jew.

he structured his practice around that. when he came to the refuge and realized what was going on, there's a scene where they go through that. bring peace and calm people down. we are going to the refuge with drugs clearing it. but nothing happened because nobody was there. nobody was working there. the crew moved in and they stayed there for a well. they stayed there for two weeks until the leadership was arrested. different groups of people who had come and gone, there were poor group of people who joined. most of those people fled but for state.

they were there about another 11 days or so. before that, before the arrests, there was a lot of back-and-forth and ongoing propaganda war taking place on social media as much as in person. he became involved in the back and forth with the people who first brought me into this. when the group took over the refuge, they were there to return the land to the rightful owners, they were ranchers. it would be like the people seem to be, they would never discover individuals, family ranchers, the land had been taken from. that's a whole other confusing thing. we've got some ideas about that. we are going to tell our story. they had media from all over the

world. we're not going to get into that in-depth here but that was fascinating. it tells of incredible perseverance. they refused to accept that displacement. it's a key part of that entity to this day. he grew up on a navajo reservation, he feels strongly to connect with the tribe in fort an alliance with the tribe. there was no back and forth for them. that was a fascinating part to me. i read some of that before we are done.

january 20 video is a painful feeling. this was his first video about the artifacts stored. they were stored on the refuge. he goes through the artifacts. he's wearing his big cowboy hat, across his school. he is clear that this visit is being staged. the rightful owners, who want to make sure they return to their rightful owners. he continues 20 artifacts. it's been discovered in one of the boxes. the way i understand, is a bom,

it was the fish and wildlife service, he boxed them up and let them rot. they pick it up and put it down with each tool. he was also unsettling all of the artifacts, they are moving at a different time. with outrage, he establishes that sometimes for decades, this has just been sitting there. they look out whenever they come down here. satisfied he made his case, he wraps up, reiterating his dialogue. he goes as far as to declare that on the land. before the video concludes, the rightful owners come back and claim their belongings.

it sounds like they are about to be evicted. it would not be that simple. they can't talk respectfully to the rightful owners. neither was the tribe concerned about dirt for animals. it's not just artifacts, weeks after is all over, the history is in the culture and soil. it wasn't so much that there was dirt, artifacts but the animals have been into the boxes where they were stored and also the artifacts were out of the earth at all. despite his assertion of his desire to be respectful, we are

nowhere near that. if you view the video with that perspective in mind, it gets freaky. he can't see them. it's like he can't see them because they are everything. they are the air he's breathing, the ground he is walking on. it's been discarded for millennia, by their interest is. they repackage the stephen king horror. they ambush by the silence of the dead. they can't be silenced because he's the one talking, telling his own story. the timeframe was no significance. time scapes and absences in the land. mr. artifacts, there was nothing. the ground he's working on everyday has his belongings.

they are buried in the dirt. nobody will ever be about to come by and pick it all up. you just can't leave history out on the streets. it's in everything. he's surrounded by relationships. they were the only ones getting restless. there were the only ones watching. law enforcement response. the very next day, he identified himself only as chris. the pressure was on from that time forward. the military presence of the fbi shifted. he was introduced earlier in the book. he was a member of the trouble counsel. a few days after the fbi

arrested the leadership. we don't it's a coincidence that he died. no disrespect, we feel for his family. we feel for him. but he can't go without protection. say a prayer for sing, sprinkle some tobacco. returning to the earth. it's ours but not ours. it is hard for people to understand. they are punch rated by variations of this. it's hard to explain, hard for people to understand. these are usually comings at moments of intense moments.

they reminded me to be skeptical of how much i understand. there is much here that i didn't understand. that's why he was able to imagine something like that through the land. the basic mendoza misunderstanding is the specifics of the explanation. it is an ongoing conflict between relationships. they underpin all the private and governmental institutions to negotiate. it's a family relationship. you can't own relatives. everyone around you, ancestors are woven through that. i don't know if people can understand.

it's a community in the dirt. i use that word. it's an offense against community. it's why i became an archaeologist. not so much to participate in this but to minimize archaeology in the soil. to recognize this. it was a practical one. devoid of any of the absolute all or nothing. archaeology is in the moment. it is power over the land, culturally and legally. there's no choice but to participate and hope something of collaboration.

there was collaboration in the relationships with the fish and wildlife regulations. she hoped that as collaboration increased, it would form part of a larger development. practices that might change involve governing artifacts and lead to some or all artifacts and returned to the dirt. that can be very hard for people to understand. they are dirty, disrespected. they are snatched in the basement room. was important to her was not, the objects were still on segment. still close to the dirt they came from. they were transferred to a museum and properly cared for. immediately returning them to the soil would be difficult.

in her work, she talks about the inadequacy of ideas of property and sacred when it comes to describing relationships to landscape. then she offers this. the description of the nomadic culture like that, the concept of land ownership is nonexistent. diane proposes a different understanding of landscape. action and landscape is not only an action on prior offense but the people were involved. this can make her gardening gardening complex. there were traces of her ancestors. the 19th century, they played a big role in this.

there is no catechism for dreamers. with the private property, the great dreamer possibility. the most complete written record we have of the 19th century comes from the conversations she had with the u.s. army ambassador. convince them to take up ownership of land. he explained the salmon beast, the land ownership and what the americans called boston's. it was prohibited to dreamers. men who work cannot dream. they violated the earth by owning it to cultivate specific

plans for human consumption. all the native were to return to the earth alongside the population, animals and plants. these ideas that made their way down, i think i see what he meant. there's something very strange, kind of absurd. only this kind of plant would grow here. i've been reading a lot about this. it goes against our central reference. big knowledge that nothing exists just for me. if you take a part of a plant, making offering or ask permission. we need to respect plant liberty. there is a different understanding of liberty.

it is rarely extended to plants. liberties of people were people and their property incorporation and funny, this was an obvious conservation. the earth has a very specific purpose. it exists for human growth. it is a test before continuing on our spiritual way. i believe heaven, two years after, fight for personal agency and taking his life. a lot of people think fate is the first principle.

but before faith, you must have the ability to choose, you must have your liberty. we go with the pre-mortal realm. we should regress to become more like him. we have a body and experience more of life and that's what this mortal life is. we are spiritual beings. when you see yourself as a child of god, you have a different perspective. eating an individual and using and extending his rights. this wasn't quite anarchism. when it came close to time, the two men had firearms and freedom in the ideal world. they formed an antigovernment militia.

it prevented an american frontier. world of self reliant, non- relation. it was fascinating to neighbors. regarding firearms, one intends to keep another in chief. that is what all the guns should be, holstered in the sheaves. we should all be neighborly, kind and friendly. he says this in front of a fireplace.

the day before he died, he made his last plea to the tribe. i finished my time with this.

he tells the camera that he claims, he talks about his youth in the reservation and his time there. their sacred objects will not be handled. it is time, he says what you seem to be saying. it is time to hire people here. it is time for you to throw out the bia and become a sovereign independent nation. he takes off his gloves and puts it on his heels. i believe in the native americans. it is time for them to stand up and cross the federal government. he reached his right arm toward you. i hope to see you soon, he says. he put up a camera, now looking

down. then he drops away. will be on the same side. we, he stammers, are not enemies. that is all i have to say. i think i'll stop there. there's a whole other package. i think this is a good place to close. and maybe take some questions. maybe what you have heard about, about this whole event or other parts of the story you may follow. >> interviews with the people involved and how many interviews you did and what that experience was like. >> i said a lot of the trials in portland. they were never charged.

he testified in the fall 2016. he didn't testify because he was afraid he would be trapped into perjury or something. i can't remember exactly why. he didn't testify but he was there. the defense had an active read his testimony while he was in court, watching. >> with a lot of other people you associate with, with

resolution, it was very helpful. he was found not guilty in the fall of 2015. another occupiers out there, often during the trials. other events or actions they took, an important character comes in later. they joined the group after all of this and became a leader of the group. i talked to them after they got

out of prison in 2018. when the charges, your book acquitted in this case in oregon and they were arrested on charges around that time. then my case was thrown out of court because of government. there was 3000 pages of discovery. the case was dismissed. that's when i finally got to meet him. we are in the book for a long time and that's in the book. i did some phone interviews with ryan "afterwards". the doctrine from ryan comes from last year. i'm sure i'm forgetting some. it's a great lengthy protest they did in nevada. a company they used to call corrections corporation of america and it's been renamed. they run on private prisons. in nevada desert which began protest for that community. had a big cancer and they would circle it everyday as a march. they gathered out there because

it was a lot about american prisons two years after that. in 2016, there was resistance of prison policy and not. in those facilities, he was handcuffed with his hands behind his back and stopped in a shower be for 13 hours. then his followers came and set up a camp outside that prison which is not that far from where i live. they set up dimensions of the shower stall that he was handcuffed in, they created the shower stalls in the desert that

they live streamed themselves in the same position, handcuffed so they could suffer as him. the bible streamed him and collected donations. nobody ever made it 13 hours, one person made it to ten. these figures are made, there's like ten hour videos, suffering and talking. they discovered this through

this whole process. it was not the same background in any way. they were out in the desert, protesting something that had been of great concern to me as well for a long time. by the time he got out of prison, he was having an abolition. the replacement of prisons was restitution and rehabilitation. i have not heard him talk about that so much since he got out of prison. things started to be very serious at that time. more questions? >> this makes me very frightened and angry. >> yes, same as a lot of people. >> i'm wondering what you think what the impact of this is. further waves that report out from it? has it energized other militia groups? copyright groups, how does it fit? >> thing about historically, one of my main focus is in the book has been how much? nineteenth century history was forward by that event and the

tribes involved. they highlighted, made it clear what the occupation was in the performance. it was kind of our recent agent of the white settlement and dealing with land in that mileage. restating for the internet as a community of feelings that provided feelings and incredible significance. you're saving america, not just america but hoping that humankind be measured. the method to do that was to restage it. on land they didn't know. that aspect reverberates

backwards. that gives us a picture of so many impasses we face right now. unresolved history of the 19th century, circling on facebook. the facebook brings me to a more proper answer to your question. i see an alarming thing, and organ, something that he will tell you more directly, he did at the most directly, he had a county out there with a very

impoverished sector. chart department dealing with a county enforced deputies. this community feeling on facebook, not very organized at all. they were challenged to sovereignty of local power. i think that becomes that kind of language, the shadows that. it becomes a shadow of maybe a larger problem. things can happen when you have broken down so society or whatever you want to call it.

it feels like intense ugly feelings circulating. and a broken down public sector combined into also have this platform jar a public platform which is privatized. it is automated and increased. it's more difficult to think about in this story. is a political sovereignty in governance, that's what this feels like. >> but i saw a couple of weeks ago, so that partners announced they would create their own currency. i've been thinking about how facebook created this possibility. facebook is actively involved in certain venting and undermining different forms of sovereignty and creating through that new forms of -- sovereignty?

is a governance? insolvency? i don't know. the idea of them having their own currency would be outside of the sovereignty of national currency. that was a concern but also more specifically, the militia stuff, that world is disorganized. and right now, they are fractured. >> because of trump. and ammon. over the rhetoric into as an 18 because a lot of the militia is

heavily champion. he made another video. he made another address. he decided people from honduras were suffering and he was upset and angry about the rhetoric coming from the president. he received a torment of abuse from people who supported him before. they told him they wished he was dead. so he's no longer galvanizing for us in that committee. because of the power of the internet, something like that could happen again. then i see things like the issues about climate change.

especially when climate change bills had an impact on local communities that are already tense with sufferings. the rhetoric on world america. the oath keepers militia. if you have that, you have the ability of the internet to

automate and allow people to organize. it was less by year-by-year. i think it is a certain galvanizing figure. different kind of yellow best situation and involves more guns. it something i think every effort to craft climate change legislation and programs have to take in. it's important that all of those efforts are happening on multiple scales. >> we spent a lot of time with them out here on the reservation. several years ago. what struck me about this, which we didn't hear about all that i

recall is this whole sense of god calling. the messianic sort of thing. none of that came through the media as far as i know. >> i assume this president and the media doesn't know anything about church, generally. they don't know what they are talking about. [laughter] especially in terms of church

history and science and religion and all that. anyway, does the media pick up on? that was fundamental. where do you think it will happen? you think it might be over water rights -- >> interesting. >> i don't know about that particular case but it seems like water rights will be the big fight. that is a different constellation. one of the big places, spring valley, nevada -- it's like las vegas buying out the rights. >> las vegas is part of this whole story. this never would have happened without las vegas. >> they had to be protected in las vegas had to grow. that's when they delivered the

new regulations. the water is a huge issue now, too. people are familiar with farming practices. farming, in the dry land, in the desert, it's as absurd as people get. people coming into offers in the desert. they're growing up off the so it's creating water in the water is going down. the first part, and there was a little bit, the people are, they have some of the statements that

allow coverage but i don't think it was picked up on that. i think the mainstream coverage kind of focused on the election. people left behind, people are upset. what are they upset about? then there was different coverage depending on what

political best -- >> you mentioned the constitutional philosophy a couple of times. i heard from people who were very close in the area at the time that believe you mentioned this, the sheriffs, he was not, he really didn't want this occurring in his county. when the embers took place, they were going through a public meeting over where the sheriff was a leader of this alternate governance share movement. can you comment about that? >> that sheriff made a brief appearance in the book. was voted the constitutional one here.

i'll get that acronym of the organization. it's very long. peace officers and whoever they can draw in. it's basically a man named richard, who is from arizona. i think richard talked about this in the book because he reached out to him. he was associated with that family. they broke over, he started talking about prison reform, him and matt. at that time, that idea was really important for him it came from mack, who is latter-day saint. he is the person who and dated irritated all of the constitution.

it like george washington on the cover. somebody in that same movie, richard i think bring forward the ideas. as with the constitutional sheriff idea comes from. i think that the way things work and this is something also, dave told me that he thinks, when he talks to people, it's not just people amongst, were directly involved, people aren't aware of the origins of that idea. are you familiar with it? in the 60s and 70s, very frightening, really violent

racist and anti-semitic's militia organization and a preacher and paramedic the year of that group, very disturbing experience. he wanted the main part of his documents, if the sheriff will defend the constitution, it's the duty of the people to hang the shaft. that idea was whispering around at that time. a lot of people suffered during this time. it was vocalized on him. >> [inaudible question]

>> a lot of people left. they don't have an archaeologist for that which is a big problem. somebody to partner with their.

this is for people working in small communities for federal agencies. thank you. [applause] >> here are some of the current best-selling nonfiction books. topping the list, growing up in the idaho mountains and her introduction to formal education at 17. her book, educated on bestseller list for over a year. david recounts the journeys of early settlers of the northwest territory. then former first lady michelle obama's memoir, becoming. the best-selling book of last year. following that, susan account of the l.a. public library fire of 1986 in the library book. mark mentions advice on meeting happier life. most authors have appeared on tv and you can watch them