and on saturday at politics & prose bookstore, the founding director of the center for immigrants rights clinic at penn state law will examine the effects of immigration enforcement since president trump's election. all of these events are open to the public. if you're in attendance, take a picture and tag us @booktv on twitter, facebook or instagram. >> disability rights attorney haben girma is next on booktv. born deafblind at birth, she talks about navigating through a sighted, hearing world. after that, ibram kendi, and former secretary of defense jim mattis recounts his military career. that all starts now. >> host: and now on booktv we want to introduce you to author haben girma.

she is also a lawyer. ms. girma, what kind of law do you practice? >> guest: would you call me haben? >> host: haben, yes, ma'am. >> guest: and the kind of law i do is disability rights. i'm focused on using my skills to advance opportunities for people with disabilities. >> host: why did you choose that type of law? >> guest: i was born deafblind. most of our world is designed for people who can see and hear, and when we ask for accommodations -- for example, getting materials in braille instead of print -- a lot of society refuses, putting up barriers. and that limits our ability to get an education, to go and get a job, and that's not fair. so i experienced a lot --

[inaudible] and the law is one way that we can create change. and i wanted to create a change and remove barriers so people with disabilities -- for people with disabilities. is so my own personal story and struggle inspired me to become an attorney. >> host: and here is her book, "has beenen: the deafblind woman who conquered harvard law." first deafblind person to graduate from harvard, is that correct? from harvard law school? [inaudible] >> host: what was that experience like? >> guest: i had a lot of unknowns. i couldn't reach out to another deafblind harvard law graduate and ask them how did you do this? how did you do oral arguments? how did you take your exams? i had to figure a lot of it out, and it actually started way back

in elementary school e when i had to learn to advocate for my needs and to navigate the school system. one of my early chapters in my book is an experience where a teacher told me i was failing a chat. and this was in -- a class. and this was in middle school. and i was extremely surprised because i did all my assignments. how could i be failing a a class when i'm doing all the assignments? and we investigated what was going on. my -- the teacher -- [inaudible] this was hart middle school in oakland, california, a mainstream public school. i was attending classes with non-disabled students. a non-specialized school. and after the teacher for the blind talked to the mainstream teacher, they realized the teacher was writing assignments

on the board, and i wasn't seeing them. so i was missing homework because i didn't see that it was assigned. and sometimes the instructor would read the assignment from the back of the room, and i wouldn't hear him. i didn't know that homework was being assigned. so i realized if i just try to be a student, i'll never be successful. i had to both be a student and my own teacher and advocate. and that's when things changed. i start advocating for my rights. i started checking in, what are the strategies to get up close to the assignments if you can't see or hear the assignments? i would go to teacher after every class and ask what did i miss? what assignments are there? and i continued doing that through high school. my grades went up. i started getting straight the as when i took responsibility for my education.

and the school actually was more accessible than most schools. most schools throughout the united states don't even provide blind students braille. so even if they heard the assignment, they would miss out on the opportunity to do the reading and stay on top of classes. and and those types of barriers forced students to fall behind, affected their ability to get good grades and get a job later. so even though i had barriers in my school, i was getting more opportunities than most students which allowed me to work on advocacy skills, start doing well in school which then helped me go on to college and go on to law school. and when i faced all those unknowns at harvard law school, i had advocacy e skills to fall on that i had access to reading

materials and participated in all aspects of the program. >> host: at what point in your life were you aware that you saw and heard things differently than the majority of people? >> guest: that's a good question. i was born deafblind. deafblind is a spectrum. even though i had limited vision and hearing when i was younger, i had more than i do know, and it slowly deteriorated over time. it probably will continue to deteriorate over time. and i just adapt and come up with solutions so that i can access what i need. when did i notice that i'm deafblind? i don't have an exact date. but when i was in middle school, i remember i was surprised that

i was missing information. i didn't realize that the teacher was writing on the board and i was missing stuff or that he was saying things from the back of the room and i was missing information. i kind of assumed that the way that i experienced the world was how most kids and adults experienced the world. so when i had that meeting with one of my teachers, the teacher for the blind and the mainstream teacher, that's when i started to realize how i experience the world is different than others. and other students could just go to school and expect the teachers to teach them. i couldn't do that. i had to think about what might i be missing, what are the potential unknowns here, how can i find those unknowns. and all my life has been this process of trying to identify unknowns and figure them out and come up with solutions. a lot of detective work.

>> host: from your book, ms. girma, you write: the blind community has horror stories of blind kids who never contribute around the house because their parents tell them they can't. my parents expect me to do chores, and i do. >> guest: that's true. so the truth is as a kid i didn't want to do chores. what kid wants to do chores? luckily, my parents till expected me to do chores -- still expected me to do chores. so i learned to do chores. i learned nonvisual techniques for everything from vacuuming to doing dishes. other parents are like, oh, you can't do that if you're blind. they could tell their kid with a disability to go sit in the corner and not participate.

that kid grows up into an adult and never develops independent skills. that is extremely limiting. it's important for parents to encourage their kids to participate around the house. if you're not sure how they will do it, research, try. there are a lot of disability organizations that can help you come up with solutions for how to do activities with your child in an accessible format. my parents had high expectations, but they were also very afraid and protective. there was one time when i wanted to go and travel to mali, west africa, and help build a school, and my parents told me, no, that's not safe. i told them you guys are from africa, my dad grew up in ethiopia, my mom grew up in eritrea, how could you tell me africa's not safe?

but they were responding based on being parents and wanting to protect their child and being afraid of the unknown. then they brought up my disability, how can you build a school if you can't see? and i told them the other american students also don't know how to build a school. we'll learn together. we'll figure it out. and they still said no. i was frustrated, but i wouldn't give up. i told them that i could do this activity, and they wouldn't believe me. often it's the person with the disability who understands their abilities best, not people outside that experience, but the person with the disability. and they were avoiding me, so i brought in an ally to help advocate. i went to the program manager for the program that takes kids

to developing countries to help build schools. this organization is called build on. and the build on program manager and i and my parents sat down for lunch, and they expressed their fears to the program manager, and she was able to address their fears. they asked her how can she build a school if she can't see? and the program manager answered honestly, i don't know, but she'll find a way, she'll figure it out. it's okay if you don't have an answer as long as you try, as long as you go out there, pick up the shovel, start digging. you'll find strategies, you'll find alternative techniques. and when i went to mali to build the school, we did find alternative techniques. i knew how to handle a shovel, how to dig, move bricks. i learned all those activities. even building the latrines.

after that when i came back to the united states, my parents felt slightly more confident about my abilities. they still had fears. all parents have fears and have the desire to keep their child safe at home, and we continued to have that struggle. even now there's still a little bit of that struggle of them wanting to keep me safe and me wanting to explore the world. >> host: haben girma, we're sitting here in a bright studio with lots of lights on. what, what do you hear or see right now? what are the images or the sounds? >> guest: it's really hard to explain. i never had 20/20 vision, so i don't know what you're experiencing. nor do i know if you have 20/20

vision or something else. what do you see? >> host: well, i think i see everything. my vision is 20/20, so i can see your face and your hands typing, and i can see claire over here typing -- and we'll explain why she is here as well in just a minute. but is it opaque? is that a term that works for you? are you aware of light? let's put it that way. >> guest: i can answer that question, yes. i'm aware of light. i can tell when the lights are on and off. everything's blurry. i can sometimes see the outlines of objects. if someone's really close to me, i can see them. i can't see you at the moment, but if you were closer, i would

see the outline of you but not details like eyes or facial expressions. everything's very blurry. >> host: can you understand any of my words at this point? you write in your book about being able to hear higher tones rather than lower tones in voice. >> guest: i can hear a little bit of the high frequencies. if one's near me, i can usually tell when they're speaking. i can't catch any of their words. so i don't know what you're saying until claire, the captioner, types what you're saying. she's typing on a keyboarder that's wirelessly connected to my braille computer. as you speak, she types what you're saying, and i read it in braille. my fingers run over the dots on my braille machine, and i'm

reading the words and then i know what you're saying. >> host: you also have another assistant here with you. who is that? >> guest: that is milo. milo is my seeing eye dog. he's a small german shepard dog. well, he's small for a german shepard but probably considered a big dog. and he was trained at the seeing eye in morristown, new jersey. >> host: he's your second dog? >> guest: he's my second dog. my first dog, who i talk about in my book, there's a chapter in my book where with i talk about what it was like to go to seeing eye and train with a dog. if you want to have a good relationship whether with an animal or a human being, you need to invest in that relationship. so i stepped away from college,

stepped away from family to spend three weeks entirely focused on developing a a relationship with my seeing eye dog. at first it was incredibly awkward. i was a stranger to her, her name was maxine, and she was a stranger to me. we didn't understand each other. but sometimes she would walk me into chairs, not stop at stairs. she was fully trained, but she didn't have a relationship with me. and we had to work on our relationship. and over time we learned to understand each other. her guiding improved dramatically. for nine years we worked together traveling all over the country. when i graduated from college, she was with me. when i was climbing icebergs in alaska, she was with me. and when i went to law school at harvard, she was there by my side through my classes, walking across the stage.

last year she passed away from cancer, and it was really, really hard to lose a partner not just a dog, but a partner who was by my side new so many big moments -- through so many big moments. >> host: haben girma, you talk about the techniques that you've used, and one of those small techniques was you lift your toes when you were walking with the dog to keep from tripping. how does that change how you walk? >> guest: you're a very observant reader. that's a small detail in my book, but you picked it up. so throughout my life, i came up with strategies to help me be more aware of the world. one strategy is i like wearing flats, very thin shoes so i can

feel the environment more easily when i'm walking. the shift from wood to carpet, pavement, i can feel all of that through my shoes because i wear flats. i also tilt my toes upwards when i'm walking so that if i did smash against something, it's easier to maintain your balance if your toes are slightly pointed upwards. so i rarely fall partly because i have good balance, partly because of the way i walk and also because i'm a dancer. dancing helps you develop really good balance. >> host: let's talk about lewis e and clark college and one of your first advocacies there. >> guest: that's a good one. one of my favorite chapters in the book is about my time at

lewis and clark college in portland, oregon, a small liberal arts school who did a fantastic job providing access to my classes. i had all the materials for my textbooks, my exams. everything was going well in my classes. there was just one issue, the cafeteria. in the cafeteria they had maybe six different food stations. students would walk in, browse the print menu and go to the station of choice. i couldn't read the menu. blindness wasn't the problem. blindness is never the problem. the problem was the format of the men you. so i went to the -- menu. so i went to the manager and i asked, can you make the menu accessible? you could e-mail it to me or braille the menu or post it

online. i have software called screen reader, called the screen reader that will convert graphical information on web sites or e-mails into accessible formats like digital braille. and the manager told me, sorry,, we have over a thousand students, we don't really have time to assist you with a service. for the first few months, i tolerated the situation. i told myself at least i have food. at least i'm getting my textbooks for my classes. at least i'm getting an education. sometimes we engage in the oppression olympics. we compare ourselves and we tell ourselves, oh, someone else has it worse, stop complaining. at least you don't have it as bad as someone else. but that kind of thinking is not helpful. we'll never remove barriers and

advance society if we're constantly comparing forms of oppression. i realized if i wanted the system to change, i had to do something. so i researched the americans with disabilities act. i talked to advocates. then i told the university, i told the food service at the cafeteria that they had the legal obligation to make the menu accessible to people with disabilities. and if they don't, i'm going to pursue legal action. i had no idea how i would do that. i was just 19, i couldn't afford a lawyer. now i know there are nonprofit legal centers that'll help students with disabilities. but back then i didn't know that. all i knew is that i had to try. i had to do something. and in this case, the very next

day the manager apologizedded and promised to make the menus accessible. they did. they started sending the menus. back then i was a vegetarian, and it's much easier to eat vegetarian when you know what the food choices are, when you know which one of the stations is serving a individual tear meal -- vegetarian meal. so i finally could more easily eat vegetarian. life became delicious. and the next year a new blind student came to the college. he didn't have to fight for access to the menus. he had immediate access to the menus. that taught me that when i advocate, i'm removing barriers for an entire community. that inspired me to become an attorney and continue advocating for people with disabilities. >> host: your book is written in a series of vignettes. why did you choose that model?

>> guest: i feel stories are really powerful to help teach people a lesson. i didn't want to lecture to people. no one wants to be lectured at. so instead i offered a series of engaging, humorous stories that will help the lessons stick. each story teaches us something about ableism. ableism is a set of beliefs that people with disabilities are infear your to non-- inferior to the non-disabled. we're not inferior. ableism teaches society that we are. so the stories in my book help identify ableism. and at the end of the book, if you feel inspired, if you feel moved, there's a guide to take

steps to remove inaccesibility -- if you feel inspired to remove barriers and work towards accessible, then the accessibility guide can help. >> host: what is your reaction if somebody tells you you're an inspiration to them? >> guest: i tell them what are you inspired to do? >> host: that's not a word you like, is it? >> guest: i -- it really depends on how people use it, and i try to be patient because i'm an advocate. my role is to teach people about accessibility. so i ask people what do you mean when you say i'm inspiring? do you mean you're going to take steps to remove barriers? are you inspired to make your web site accessible?

or is the word inspiration a disguise for pity? sometimes it is. the word is used so often for people with disables when they're not even doing anything productive. we want to ask people be aware of what you're actually saying. try to use a different word. maybe role model. maybe motivation. so ask yourself what are you really feeling before you use a word. >> host: haben girma, you write in your book that only 10% of blind people can read braille, and 70% of blind people are up employed. unemployed. >> guest: only about 10% of the blind commitment reads braille -- community reads braille because a lot of teachers ott blind are not

teaching braille. there's an assumption that, oh, they can just listen to books on tape, or they can just listen to information on their computers. there's no use for braille, is the assumption. but if people don't learn braille, if blind people don't learn braille, they don't develop lit are rassi. it's important -- literacy. it's important to know how words are spelled, how sentences are formed. if you only listen to stories, you'll think once upon a time is one word. so it's important for more people to learn braille, and we should make sure that our schools are teaching braille to blind students. and if adults become blind later in life, we should insure that there are services to teach braille to adults because braille is a really powerful tool to connect with the world, to access information and

especially when it comes to employment. braille readers have an advantage over non-braille readers. about 70% of the blind community experiences unemployment, and that's because a lot of employers assume that blind people can't do lots of different tasks. when i was in college, i wanted to get a summer job just like so many other college students who want to get a summer job. and a friend of mine told me i know a place where there are lots of summer jobs. alaska. and so i said, okay, let's go up to alaska. and he was right. there were lots of summer jobs in alaska. juneau has a large tourism industry, so lots of jobs are there to help meet the needs of tourists. i applied to tons of jobs. employers would see my resumé,

get excited. i was valedictorian in high school. i had really good grades in college, lots of volunteer experiences. so employers would get excited with my resumé, but once they met me for the interview, they realized i had a disability, then they would come up with all kinds of excuses. actually, we just filled the position. sorry, we're looking for a different fit. that was incredibly frustrating. people told me work hard and you'll be successful. i worked hard, and i still faced barriers. working hard alone is not enough. society needs to remove barriers. employers need to remove barriers. eventually, after a long search, i found an employer who was inclusive. it was at a small gym in alaska,

and i worked as a front desk clerk. my responsibility was making sure -- was being responsible for the cash register, making sure that -- [inaudible] cleaning the changing room. one day a woman walked in and she told me one of the treadmills is not working. i followed her to one of the treadmills. i tried hitting the on button. it wouldn't work. i tried the other button, it wouldn't work. i felt the treadmill from top to bottom, and on the bottom there was a switch with. i flicked the switch, and the machine went to life. the lady told me, oh, my goodness, i didn't see that switch. i told her, i didn't see it either. [laughter] sometimes non-visual techniques are equal in value and surpass

visual techniques. >> host: just go back to that gym story. was your hearing better at that time that you could understand the woman speaking to you? >> guest: yeah. my hearing -- yes. i could hear more back then. i was still deaf. deafness is a spectrum. so if someone was close to me, i could understand them. >> host: i saw earlier, when i spoke to you, you couldn't hear me, but when claire spoke to you, you could hear her very clearly. or more clearly. >> guest: claire has a slightly higher voice than you do. you have a lower voice. so claire's a little easier to hear. i still don't hear claire very well. i catch bits and pieces of what she says.

>> host: you describe yourself in your book as ultra visible and invisible. >> guest: it's complicated. i stand out as a black woman, deafblind with a guide dog and a funny computer. so people see me. but at the same time, they don't see me. because they see all the stereotypes of blindness. they see the blind beggars which are the stereowith types of blind people -- stereotypes of blind people that we most often see in the media. and all the stereotypes about deaf people. for so much of our history the words "deaf" and "dumb" have gone together, and a lot of people assume that they're less intelligent, which is not fair. i want people, i want society to

change and get rid of those assumptions. let's move away from the charity model and start seeing people with disabilities as talented with valuable contributions for society. >> host: haben girma, you arrived here in our building at our studios by yourself with milo. what's your system if you've never been to this building? what's your system for arriving? [laughter] >> guest: we have a system called structured discovery which means use your skills, use your navigational orientation skills. when i was in high school and after high school, i took a lot of training from organization

and mobility professionals. they taught me how to navigate through spaces i've never experienced before. a lot of spaces have patterns -- sidewalks, trees, buildings. so when i arrived here, milo and i moved through the lobby until we found a reception area, and one of your staff members helped identify a seating area, and i used my keyboarder and braille display -- key board and braille display to help communicate with your staff members. >> host: claire baldy, what do you do for a living? is this a full-time job for you? >> guest: working with haben? no. but i work in -- i'm a captioner, so i caption tv, college classes, plays, musical,

sporting events for the deaf and hard of hearing. >> host: how long have you been doing that? >> guest: i have been doing that for three years. >> host: is this system -- and this is a question for haben -- is this system, is this something you came up with, or who invented what we're doing here? >> guest: this is a braille computer, and devices like this have been around since about the '80s. they don't have bluetooth. and in 2010 this model came out with bluetooth, and i started asking myself would it be possible to connect it to a key board. and if i connected it with a keyboard, could i better communicate with people? braille is my strongest way to

commune candidate. i know some -- communicate. i also know some sign language. i'm not fluent, and most hearing people don't know sign language. most hearing people can type. most likely they'll be able to type, and i'll be able to read what they're saying in braille. so i spent time testing it with a braille computer to try to find out which ones work, which ones are most portable and resilient, because you have to have them in all kinds of environments. sometimes people accidentally spill things or drop things. and so i car i a keyboard, and i also carry a backup one just in case. >> host: haben girma, you tell the story in your book about the party after your first semester of law school. [laughter] >> guest: that's a good story.

so for the most part, i have avoided loud, noisy environments and parties because before i had this keyboard and braille computer, i had no way to communicate with people in loud, noisy environments. so i would miss out and be excluded in those settings. then in 2010 just before i started law school, i found this system, and i started slowly using it in different environments. at the end of my first semester in law school, several of my classmates got together at a bar to celebrate the end of classes. when i arrived, i was extremely nervous because i wasn't sure how it would work, how i would be able to communicate and interact at a bar. it actually worked out really well. in bars people strain their

voices to be heard, to be understood, and my classmates enjoyed the opportunity to rest their voices and just type. they didn't have to shout to communicate with me. they could take a break and just type, and i would be able to read. that worked out well until someone had too much to drink finish. [laughter] then his words, i could not understand him. i asked myself, what would i want if i were in his shoes? what would i expect from a friend? so i offered to walk him home, and we were struggling to communicate, but he really, really admired maxine, my seeing eye dog. so through maxine i was able to convince him to help guide him home and follow us home.

he kept trying to go off in the wrong direction, and i had to keep reminding him follow maxine, she'll help you get home. and eventually, we made it. >> host: you write in your book that the world is a steaming sensory stew. >> guest: there's always something going on. even if you are sighted and hearing, there's something going on. there's constant sensory experiences that we're missing out. and it's really important to be able to focus and be present on what you can access, because there are so many things you can experience and feel. i find that touch is a skill, an ability that very few people pay attention to. they have different levels of

tactile intelligence. some people are really good at picking up environmental information through skin. if somebody walks by me, i can feel the air change as they walk by. there are lots of little signals you can pick up. so that's one of the stories in my book where i discover tactile intelligence. and i start building up that skill. >> host: who's gordon? and is he still a part of your life? >> guest: gordon is one of my best friends, and i have a team of maybe ten people who take turns traveling with me to different events and typing, and gordon is really good at typing and describing the world and

identifying challenges. so i think it's really important for everyone to have a person who can help you identify ableism or sexism or racism. sometimes the world gets overwhelming and we feel tired and lose the ability to advocate for ourselves. but if you have a network of friends who who can help cheer r you and help you advocate when you struggle to advocate for yourself, it's really, really important. >> host: you talk about the loneliness sometimes. >> guest: yeah. p i don't really have a community that automatically gets me. blind people, they're automatically -- they automatically get somebody who's blind.

the err trine-ethiopian community don't automatically understand me. so i have to build bridges and help expand. this is how i communicate, this is how i access information, fining middle ground where we can -- finding middle ground where we can all communicate and understand each other. that takes work. it's a process, and sometimes it gets exhausting. >> host: your brother was born deafblind as well, correct? >> guest: yes. and that's interesting. one of my brothers is also deafblind, and he has a completely different experience than me. his deafness and blindness was different. his communication style is different. he was born and raised in eritrea. i was born and raised in the united states. so we have some similarities, and then we also have differences. so we've had to work to find a

way to communicate. sometimes we use the braille computer and keyboard, sometimes we use sign language. >> host: haben girma, july 20th, 2015. >> guest: i love that date. [laughter] >> host: why? [laughter] >> guest: july 20th, 2015, is an amazing date because that's the date i met president obama. the white house celebrated the 25th anniversary of americans with disabilities act, and they invited disability rights advocates to come and celebrate. they also invited me to introduce president obama and vice president joe biden at the ceremony. and that was an incredible

honor. >> host: what was your interaction with the president like? [laughter] >> guest: it was, it was amazing. at first i wasn't sure what to expect. some people, when i meet them, don't want to interact with me because they're nervous or uncomfortable. people, a lot of people don't like stepping outside of their comfort zone. typing is familiar, but it's also still different to some people. some people refuse and say no. president obama graciously switched from voicing to typing so i could access his words, and he typed -- he was a slow typist, but i can read slowly, so we were still able to communicate. [laughter] >> host: you write in your book that you did not bring maxine to

the white house. why not? >> guest: sometimes when i travel with maxine or milo, the conversation shifts to the dog. i thought i would only have maybe two minutes with president obama, and i was concerned that we would not talk about disability rights and accessibility if my dog stole the show. so i chose not to bring my dog because i was concerned that the conversation would be about dogs. it probably wouldn't have and he still would have talked to me about accessibility and inclusion, but that was one of my concerns. >> host: when you decided to write the book and go on book tour, what were your biggest concerns?

>> guest: i, i think a lot of authors are concerned that readers won't get the message. and that's really a common fear among authors. every reader interprets a story differently. i've gotten feedback from readers, and there's been all different kinds of feedbacks. some story it is really stick with readers. other stories, readers entirely missed the message. it's been really fascinating for me to hear back from readers. i love hearing back from readers, and people can send me messages through social media on twitter, facebook and instagram my name is @habengirma. so people can send feedback. what was your favorite part of the book, peter? [laughter] >> host: i enjoyed all of the

book, i'll just say that. ms. girma, when people go to your web site or to your social media sites and they type a message to you, what, what's the process that it gets to your keyboard? how does that work? >> host: well, the social media companies -- facebook, twitter, instagram -- have accessibility teams that help insure that their web sites and apps are is accessible. it's not perfect, but if someone sends me a message through twitter, software called screen reader -- usually that that's voice over on my iphone -- will convert the graphic images on screen -- sorry, the graphical information on screen to speech. the only time -- tech is really

easy to read, but images and videos are difficult. some people include image descriptions. a lot of people don't include image descriptions. for me to access a video, there needs to be a transcript of the video. and the captions help individuals who are deaf and sighted, i can't actually see captions, but i till encourage people -- still encourage people to add captions so that deaf people who can see can use those captions. >> host: haben girma, my favorite part of your book is the fact that you like to have your situation described to you if you're unaware of it. tell me about the bar, who's in here, what is she wearing, questions like that. they seem very important to you. >> guest: you know, people are really important to me, and i

can learn a lot about a person when i ask them to describe a setting. sometimes if i ask them to describe a setting, they immediately tribe the food. describe the food. other friends will tell me about the animals they see, like the dogs or the cats that are in the room. other friends focus on jewelry. so how someone describes a setting tell me a lot about that person. >> host: where are mom and dad now? >> guest: mom and dad are in the bay with area. >> host: do they live close by to you? >> guest: relatively, yes. yes with, they live close by. >> host: are they still worried about you? >> guest: yes. [laughter] they're still concerned and want to be safe -- want me to be safe. which is understandable.

they'll always be my parents. >> host: let's close with this. you write in your book, i like my deafblind world. it's comfortable, familiar, it's all i know, it's my -- [inaudible] >> guest: yeah. i don't wish to be sighted and hearing. i'm comfortable and happy with what i have. i do love increasing my skills and ables and talents -- and abilities and talents so if someone were to offer me a solution that would allow me to hear all the information around me, i'll take it. if someone offers me the ability to fly, i'll take it. until then, i can be content taking airplanes. but i'm always happy to improve and advance my skills and abilities. >> host: here's the book, "haben: the deafblind woman who conquered harvard law." and she has been our guest on

booktv along with claire baldy and milo. thank you all for being here. ♪ ♪ >> the house will be in order. >> for 40 years c-span has been providing america unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court and public policy events from washington, d.c. and around the country so you can make up your own mind. created by cable in 1979, c-span is brought to you by your local cable or satellite provider. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> next on booktv's "after words,"" ibram kendi argues that

america must choose to be anti-racist and work towards building more equitable society. he's interviewed by imani perry, author and princeton university african-american studies professor. "after words" is a weekly interview program with relevant guest hosts interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest work. >> host: ibram, it is wonderful to be here with you to talk about this extraordinary book, "how to be an anti-race sis." and -- racist. and i have so many questions, but the first one is why this book now? >> guest: well, of course, i'm just excited to sit down and talk to you about this book, imani. i mean, the reason is because i feel like people asked for it. you know, my last book, which was the history of racist ideas from the beginning, i also chronicled the history of