and about gun safety legislation and those are two essential things that have to be addressed by the election next year. i wish they would be addressed by congress before that but it doesn't appear that the senate will move on that. also we need to try to get back to enforcing the constitution. whoever becomes president, should obey the clause, should conduct business we put integrity. should not ridicule minorities or handicapped people or anyone else. we need to restore integrity. and restore a sense of service to all of the people. >> voices from the campaign trail. battleground states tour. >> joining us this morning is abby ellis, the producer and

director of "cbs 2" frontlines deadly water. here's about the new documentary. remind viewers of when and why this letter became contaminated. >> 72014, the city of france decided to join a new line. a new water pipeline that would, well water from lake aaron to other surrounding counties and cities. in the interim before this pipeline was constructed, state officials who were in charge of the finances in the city at the time, decided to switch the city of lent onto the flint river and turn on the flatwater plant which we see in the film has been barely operational about 50 years. >> what happened and what need it to happen for that to be successful and what didn't happen in the wake ofid taking e switchth to the foot river.

there are a lot of upgrades that need it to happen at the plant. about tens of millions of dollars of upgrades. the plant hasn't been operational in this way and nearly half a century. so there are a lot of upgrades in the system that need it to be sydone. there was equipment that need it to be replaced and there were steps that need to be adequately trained. what we found is before they actually made the switch on the staff they had, wasn't enough. they didn't have the adequate training necessary. they couldn't fathom that they were going to make them turn on the plant in such a short time. >> when he spoke to one of the workers at the plant. or his sister. what was when he staying at the time before this switch was lyft by the government officials. >> so we spoke to matt mcfarla mcfarland, he'd work to the plat for about 20 years before this happened. when he loved his job and was

very passionate about it. in the lead up to the switch, matt was responsible for doing a lot of the plant but some of what when he was responsible for was operating the systems that killed bacteria. when he knew in the lead up to the switch to the front that those systems weren't working. that was very nervous before the switchou actually took place. when he was calling his sister, when he was trying to get a supervisor to delay the switch. to not make them run. when he spoke to other people the plant. state officials shut down. they said no matter what were going to run it anyway. matt called his sister the night before the actual switch the water and when he said tell everyone you know and love not to drink the water. people are going to die. >> government officials do. >> yes, what we know is state officials who were in charge of the city of flint, at the time were aware that the plant need it more time and that they need it more staff.af

and better equipment. >> were talking about eds frontlines documentary flint deadly water we put the producer and director grade will get your questions and comments in as well. democrats were going to divide lines. regionally. if you live in the eastern support for the country to a 2 274. the line for you can be text. 202 - 8003. we also want to shove our viewers a little pit from your documentary. >> most people outside of let look at this that the killer is the water. >> what did michigan officials

know. >> a lot of people didn't want us to expose what was happening and why it was happening. >> was there a cover up. >> they should've tested the water. >> two inul or stream beginning september 10th. >> let's go back to where we left off. staff a sainted government officials. they're not ready to go. they hadn't been used for years. you interviewed the man who was in charge of making sure the bacteria, deadly bacteria is killed. what happens after the make the switch. >> saw the man we area, when he has decease when he passed away in 2016 but we interviewed his sister. when he confronted we put her a lot. almost immediately after the switch, couple weeks later, cases of diseases started popping up in the city of plant. bacterial pneumonia, very severe and can be fatal if it goes untreated. and it's very important that the

community in they medical community, both be aware that there is an outbreak of this or might go untreated. because it typically it's not tested for.ea >> so there are cases popping up of legionnaires. who alerts who. >> nobody alerts anybody. the cases popping up in june. this is been 2014. a couple of weeks after the switch. cases continue to pop up. in july and august and september and october and this continues until the end of 2014. i think the work 30 confirmed cases.th the city was hundred thousand people. that and of itself is one of the biggest outbreaks in the us history. and at that time, the state health director and the state health department knew about the outbreak. the county health department knew about the outbreak at the

residence of let's work much in the dark about it. as far as we know, the medical community was also in the dark about it. most of m the time. >> former the government officials who knew about the outbreak, what were they doing it's time for what were they talking about doing at the time periods to make at this time, they were talking about where the outbreak may be stemming from. there were talks about both of or not the outbreak could be coming from the lyft municipal water supply. or if the outbreak was confined to one local hospital. we found in our reporting was an outbreake is it confined ofteno one hospital. usually has come from somewhere. is likely the water source. in e-mails government f officias were speculating we put her is coming from the municipal water supply and also we see this narrative starting to forum that maybe it's confined to one hospital. and it's not.fi that's very interesting.

>> were they getting their water, from hospital. they were getting their water w from the city. >> what should've they done from this.for the see the number of legionnaires, and the debts. what should them they done. spank x percent we do see a case of this disease, only one case, an investigation need to be launched. need to find out what the resource is. also need to check that there are other people in the cities have the seas symptoms. an investigation is to be launched right away. especially the city like flint or poverty rates are high. we put high poverty comes high illnesses. in 2015 we saw something simil

similar, experts who handles the bronx outbreaks started an investigation on day one. start susan started seeing cases,ti they thought that the tally rates are much lower and so they were successful at it. >> we did the government call in federal officials or should they have. >> so the hierarchy is that you have the county health department which in plant, to be fair, they don't have as ton of resources. they don't have a big staff. the counting at the department was ringing the alarm and trying to get the state health department involved because when he need it additional help. when state health department there is moneyp. and wasn't adequately responding. they tried getting in touch we put the center for disease control. center for disease control need it the permission of the state before they could come in. the cdc said in e-mails that we obtained,. and this was the largest outbreak that they've

seen in a low time and it required a full investigation. they were wheeling to come in and step in and help. but they need it the permission from the state. they never got that. >> was there any investigation done by an outside team. >> not really, there was scientists in 2016, after the governor finally comes forward a year and a off after the outbreak begins, when he comes forward and tells everybody there's been an outbreak legionnaires disease and hires a team of scientists from different universities across the state to investigate the source of the outbreak. v but as we uncovered in our film, the scientist infectious d's experts help that they were reexperiencing pretty consistent pushback by state officials. in terms of what they could investigate the scope of their investigation, what water the contest. so i don't think, sc that they t

for much of their investigation that they were given a full opportunity to do it right. >> why were they and what did they tell you in your documentary, this team of scientists about what should have been done and how their communication we put the government, what was it like forum to try to do this investigation. >> it was really interesting because at the time these guys and women men and women were brought on to do this investigation, is around the same time that the special prosecutor who was appointed by the attorney general starting to mount a criminal investigation. when he is absolutely investigating the michigan department of health and services and others who may be involved. they were very much overseeing the scientists. in their investigation.

there is sort of a conflict of interest here. of the very people who are supervising these teams, to investigate the source of the outbreak and also being investigated really by the attorney general for this very situation. the scientist we spoke to in the film, said the experience increasing pushback and they were allowed to look at pneumonia deaths. wete weren't allowed to test war filters. three of them have testify to the fact that when they tell the michigan department of how the health and humanan services director that if they don't up surveillance, they could experience another outbreak. if they don't do that, you know going to die. according to these three men, they have to die of something. >> frontline went about trying to investigate the connection between legionnaires and pneumonia deaths.in i want to show our viewers that

part of the documentary. we put theeo criminal cases in limbo we were trying to determine the whole. it's kind of like detective work, you look at the evidence, we evaluate the circumstances then you start putting these pieces together. >> after months of reporting analysis, frontline and documented 115 deaths that happened during the outbreak. spokeswoman for the state health department said they noticed an increase two.. they concluded it was due to influenza. but independent scientists were telling us that in all likelihood, some of them were actually due to legionnaires. >> took the information from death certificates and applauded out each one of those that's on the map just to kind of see if anything stood out. in fact when he did.

in particular, the older parts of the city, we put kelly's clusters of people around the same time frames were switch, they were dying and pneumonia and dying of legionnaires disease. >> why was it important to look deaths that were supposedly because there could've been because i pneumonia this investigation. ntwhy was it important to look t t:eumonia specifically. abby: so legionnaires disease is the severe fatal forum of pneumonia. the symptoms you might experience are very similar to pneumonia. if there's an outbreak of legionnaires city, it goes unannounced. meaning the medical community isn't alerted to the outbreak in the public isn't alerted to the outbreak. very likely these cases could go undiagnosed. that if it they'd likely these

patients would likely just be diagnosed we put pneumonia. they might be treated we put antibiotics. use for typical bacterial pneumonia. and they will most likely will not work against legion aisle. it's a very severe bacteria require specific treatment. in order for doctors to go to test for and to diagnose it, and adequately treated, they need to know there is no outbreak going on. so when realize there's not really ever a full investigation done by the county and state or the cbc in the outbreak, it became apparent that there were likely more cases than officially reported. so officially there were 12 deaths and 90 cases.fi so thanks yourselves, both of or not there was an increase in pneumonia deaths in the city at the same time as the outbreak of legionnaires disease to determine if the scope of the outbreak could have been larger. >> this cases been reviewed by officials since you made those connections.

abby: we have shared our findings we putha officials yes. we've shared them we i put a number of people and different agencies at the government loophole. all we found, we found a hundred and 15 pneumonia deaths. we counted every counta every single death certificate. we found a hundred and 15. we can't say both of or not that specifically meaningful. what we did is we brought those facts to independent who are affiliated we put amber and the university and they did a broader investigation. they used a control group to compare b our deaths we put deas and surrounding counties and cities similar climate and other elements. they found that they can conclude 70 deaths coincide we put the outbreak of legionnaires disease. so there were 70 additional pneumonia deaths during the front water crisis that would otherwise not haddu seen

previously. >> let's get to our color. diane's been waiting in kansas. >> good morning. when this first started i was thinking about the prices we put the lead in the water. in the lead pipes. but anyhow, in early june, i was on the train to chicago and met this woman in the observation car that was from flint michigan. she was about 60 years old, nice woman. we have chatting master i was a situation we put the water supply conflict. all of this time later. she said well we are still being given water bottled water.bo they given us plenty it's not a problem. this is the worst of it. our water bills are outrageous.

mine is $300 a month. >> the sum ten times what i pay. >> she's a single woman she lives by yourself and she goes to the gym three times a week, she was your gym close right there so she actually hardly uses any water. she said if the bike so callous, the cost of electricity or the water will. i bring this up, it's not really in context we put what you know reporting on frontline but yet all of this is occurring in these people are still paying $300 a month, and by the way afterwards, it was just herby ad she said no. it sounds outrageous. abby: flat residents have been experiencing extremely high water bills for years. this is one of the reasons that i think there was people in

favor of this new pipeline about five years ago. when this crisis sorta began. a lot of officials who shame in and wanted flint to get a new water supply soon to use this idea that water rates will go down. in the city of flint people are so desperate for the water bills to go down the because they are so expensive. we were there and we met residents who had $6000 water bill. this because during the water crisis, the rate still expected to pay the water bills and therefore bills are so expensive. that's absolutely, if you get let you talk to residents there, the water contamination in the high water bills are almost equally prohibitive forum. >> different residents still drinking bottled water. what is the water source now. abby: they switch back to the detroit water supply which is now on a new name, the great lakes water authority.

yes flat residents are still drinking bottled water.in in the summer of 2018 while we were there the state of michigan, administration that was in charge, while the water took place.wa they declared the water plant is testing the same or better as other cities and other areas. so the discontinued free bottled water at the time and recommended people water is water filters. somehowr there are three churchs that only operate from donations and the lines are just miles so long the people trying to get bottled water because the same administration that lied to them for so long about the writer being safe it's not telling them that is safe they don't necessarily believe that. importantly though, the water filters that administration sort of reported to be the solution, actually don't kill bacteria they only get rid ofri the lead. there was never this acknowledgment that there was bacteria in the water early on. and so even when it comes to the solutions the state provides,

not adequate for killing the bacteria that's been in the water since the crisis. >> what about the new piping.t is that pipeline in place. abby: it is in place. other counties are using the pipeline. there are thoughts that flint is still paying off some of the bond they had take out to participate in the pipeline. so still very muchd in the world of clinton genesee county. >> i asked her. >> good morning, i just want to make sure that you can get the facts from the very beginning. wasn't that governor of michigan involved in some of this. some of the epa officials and the switch of from the front river. and how they were negligent, i

am reminded of how difficult it is to compare how even when president trump tried to say that noah said. >> let's just take your question. abby: i don't know about the governor pressuring the epa specifically. p another was a whistleblower at the epa who tried to blow the whistle on lead levels very early on. it was discredited. this is something we've seen throughout the entire basis. we have scientists or medical professional to come to the table we put evidence suggesting that there is lead in the water. there's bacteria in the water and the blood levels are higher. every step of the way, it seems government officials have discredited them. and not taken the word.

initially. >> what happened in the criminally prosecution we put the state attorney general. how did that conclude. s abby: they charged 15 people over the course of three years. when he got two cases that former director department of health and chief medical executive they were both charged we put involuntary manslaughter. both of those cases were found over. a judge in a pretrial hearing said yes there's enough evidence here to proceed to a jury trial. and that was deemed to be a success as far as the criminal prosecutions go. however, last november the political landscape in michigan changed a lot. a new attorney generalal damon d she actually fired the former special prosecutor and has since dropped all of the charges. they dropped the charges that went out prejudice staying that they canl charge again.

but there is a statute of limitations so the clock is ticking.ha spak and is there an effort underway. grassroots or otherwise to pick up this case somehow. >> abby: the new prosecutor has said that they are actively investigating it and we have no reason to believe that they won't ring new charges. we just have nothing to go on except the word at this. they have said that the previous investigation was fundamentally flawed. despite the fact that two judges agreed that they should proceed to jury trial. they said that they're going to do everything they can to bring justice to flint. i know flint activists are very flat frustrated and want justice. our likely putting pressure on the attorney generaly office. >> what is there special prosecutor unveiled about the motivationor of the head of the health department and the chief medical dr. cannot alert the publiche to this legionnaire outbreak. abby: that is still something

that i think was ongoing. in the investigation and that still something we are still reporting as well. to understand the motives of live, the question is why didn't they just switch flint off of the river when they knew there was bacteria in the waterer and they knew that it was kelly goebel and making them very sick. it is the question that we are still trying to answer in the special prosecutor in the preliminary hearing talk a lot about the pipeline and the bonds andth the money and the payments that need it to be made but we have yet to prove any of that to be true. >> carol no real hope michigan. where is royal oak in the state. >> we are about 20 minutes from plants. flint is north of us. abby: forgive me if you've answered this but what in the world ever made but city council

decided to on the from detroit water and start this mess. abby: i'm not sure if you are familiar but in michigan they haveli the former administration used emergency managers a lot so there's state officials appointed by the government who answered just to the treasury. their job is to balance the budget in the cities. that was on emergency manager at the time. so it was in state control. it had about four different emergency managers shuffling in and out during this time period. while the city council did vote in favor of joining the pipeline, their vote didn't matter. it was more like a rubber stamp process. they could've voted against it officials still voted for it. so what we say that the city council did vote in favor of this, it's kind of a moot.because they really didn't have any power at all. and again,t their motivation ws

that they were being told there water is going to be are the moderates were going to be less expensive each month and that it could potentially turn into something somewhat lucrative because what may for the first time in a really long time, have the opportunity to treatise on water and solids and water instead of buying water from detroit. >> good morning to you. thank you for taking my call. at some.so long the way the citizens of that city in the area voted for their locally officials and they got when they voted for. so i happen to live in a farm in a rural area and i have my own well. i don't have so many out and checking my love to verify if i have a concern, i've taken it and tested take appropriate action. are $300 aare being month, new hundred people city, you've got ait lot of income toe

able to take some changes and take some action on yourself. why does everybody soy somebody else's fault. abby: i think what's really important for us to understand, is that in michigan, the government appointed officials who had all of the power. so during the foot water crisis and before it, local elected officials had no power. they were not allowed too make decisions on behalf of the rest of flint.lf as a real tragedy. michigan is one of the leading examples of how this policy t cn really harm cities. but actually it is so important to know that all of these decisions are being made by the state of michigan and residents started protesting almost immediately for the water is brown and people were getting sick. they fought and fought and fought. their cries were completely silent because they were processing to their elected

officialss and they have their hands tied. a state official was in charge of the city of difference. there wasn't much democracy at the time or before the switch at all. so residents have really been disempowered infinite for a long time because of these policies. >> john is on the line located between lansing and detroit. >> what i see heret on pbs is typical of all of this ps going on in this country, this all started because the people in flint did not pay their water bills. and there water bills weren't

$300 a month. they that was in accumulation. because they weren't paying the water bills,gls they could conte we put her detroit water. you like this anyway you want butre when it all boils down to, is there is a bunch of freeloaders in this country they're trying to turn this country into a socialist country. two backless make your. the start water bills not being paid. abby: this it's not being as a result of water bills notot beig paid. at the time, flint did not need a new water supply they also could afford to pay it to get a new water supply. this was very much a decision made by state officials. they wanted this new pipeline to go through and are reporting is found that it would've been very difficult this new pipeline

which will servicing other cities in other counties, very difficult for it to go through that went out getting the hundred thousand residents from flint on as rate mirrors. this has nothing to do, the switching of the water supply has nothing to do we put the inability to pay water bills. >> ronald in illinois. >> good morning. thank you for takingin my calls. back in the 70s, i went to school to get my certified operators license for the epa. i was a class b certified operator and responsible charge. for not one but two suburbs directly south of chicago. when i went to school, i was told by all of the instructors

if there is any type of water contamination in the areas that you know responsible for, and they traced back that it was because of your incompetence or yourr ineptitude or your ability to get water samples every month, something like that happens, i would go to jail. well, that stuck we put me the entire time. that i was a certified water operator and responsible charge. we never ever had any problems whatsoever we put our water supplies because i was very set on getting these water samples when they were supposed to be taken. sending them to the epa, and within one or two days, we would get the results of these water

samples and get an okay from the epa. during that time, there was one suburb where the certified water operator was putting addresses down and forgetting water samples that when he was actually getting all of the water samples from one or two faucets and when he was probably doing it from where when he worked. eventually it caught up we put him because there was an outbreak due to the cleaning facility that was pouring poison into the water and they found out, they traced back and that five year sentence in jail. >> abby ellis but you make of this. abby: so i think one thing that we have tragically seen in flint is that very early on and throughout the second year of the water crisis,ho there were tests being done and residents

were begging to have the water tested for lead. tests were being done and then they were falsified in the lab. in addition to that, laura testing the water for lead, had been charged have been dropped but have been charged and n accused of having tested water and then inn the area that doesn't have bloodlines. so throughout this entire lead water crisis, there were instances who the very people responsible for testing the water, have been accused of falsifying those tests. and not testing the water. in the right areas. >> more from the documentary. the medical team conducted their own testing. >> the control group we chose were counties similar to that same county.

they were both initiated and surrounding states. so what we see here, is it when we started 2011, we only followw the rates, they're pretty similar. there continues until we get to about the middle of 2014. in this sort of work the questions happen here. >> the increase was most pronounced in the most for success of 2014. have left so in 2015. it's not clear why. since flint was still on river water and. s >> right when the epidemic starts, the pneumonia rate starts and jesse goes up while the other counties is going down. so if that is veryge clear divergence. me about that over time. .