>> now on book tv we will introduce you to offer on - - author was also a lawyer what type of lot you practice? >> i advanced opportunities with people with disabilities.

>> why do you choose that type of law quick. >> i was bored deaf blind and then i have to ask for accommodations and that ability to get an education and with people with disabilities and that struggle inspired me to become an attorney. >> here is her book. the first deaf blind person to graduate from harvard law

schoo school? >> yes. >> what was that experience like quick. >> there were a lot of unknowns. i could not reach out to another deaf blind harvard law graduate to say how do you do that? had you taken exam? i had to figure a lot of it out and that started way back in elementary school. >> and i was extremely

surprised about trying to do an assignment and to investigate what was going on and i was in california in the mainstream public school in a classroom with nondisabled students and then they realize the teacher was writing assignments on the board. so i needed an instructor to read the assignment so if i did that i would never be

successful i had to be my own advocate and i started advocating for my rights and what are the strategies to get the assignment if you can't see? i would go to the teacher after every class and ask what did i miss? and that i continue doing that through high school and then i took responsibility for my education and then the school is more accessible there are schools throughout the united states that just let those that on - - students fail. at least i could do the readings to help stay on top of classes and in those barriers to fall behind and

then to get good grades and get a job later. so i was getting more opportunities and then to have these advocacy skills which then help me to go on to school one --dash college and law school. and that i had access to reading materials and with all aspects of the program. >>host: at what point in your life where you aware that you saw and heard things differently than the majority of people? >> i was born deaf blind even

i had limited hearing and vision i had more than i do now. has deteriorated over time. and then i just adapted and came up with solutions that when did i notice? it wasn't an exact date but when i was in middle school i remember i was surprised i didn't realize a teacher was writing on the board and i was missing stuff or there was information missing that i experience the world was different than how adults experienced it. so i had a meeting with one of my teachers for the blind and

the mainstream teacher that's how i started to realize how i experience the world is different from others. others who just go to school and expect the teacher to teach them. i could not do that. i had to think about how could i find out. and all my life with this process to identify unknowns. >> from your book you write the blind community has horror stories of blind kids that never contribute around the house because their parents tell them that they can't. my parents expect me to do chores and i do. >> that's true.

the truth is as a kid i had to do chores. they expected me to do chores. i learned visual techniques like for doing dishes. they would say you can't do that if you are blind or just go sit in a corner and not participate and then to develop these independent skills. that is extremely limiting but if you expect them to participate around the house if you don't show them that then try. there's a lot of organizations that can help you how to do

activities in accessible format formats. my parents had high expectations but they were also very afraid. there was one time i wanted to travel to west africa and my parents told me know. that's not safe. i told them my dad grew up in ethiopia how can you tell me it's not safe? but they wanted to protect their child and then they would bring up my disability. i told them other students don't know how to go to school. but they still said no.

i was frustrated but i did not give up i told him i could do this activity. if they understand not the people outside that experience but then i had to advocate and then and with that program i and my parents sat down and they discuss their fears with the program and they asked how does she go to school if she can't see and then the program

manager said i don't know but she will find a way. it's okay if you don't have an answer as long as you try and go out there and pick up a shovel and start digging and find strategies through those techniques and when i went we did find alternative techniques how to handle a shovel and after that coming back to the united states my parents felt slightly more confident in my abilities and it was good for me to have that struggle and then to explore the world.

>>host: we are sitting sitting here in a bright studio with lots of lights. what do you hear or see right now? what are the images or sounds? >> it's really hard to explain i never had 2020 vision. if you have 2020 vision what do you see? >> i think i see everything my vision is 2020 so i can see your face and your hands typing and we'll explain why claire is here in just a minute and why she is typing but is it opaque? is that a term that works for

you? are you aware of light? put it that way. >> i can answer that question, yes. i can tell when the lights are on and off. everything is blurry. sometimes i can see the outlines if somebody is very close to me i can see them. i cannot see you at the moment but if you were closer i would see the outline but not details like your eyes. everything is very blurry. >>host: can you understand any of my words at this point? you write in your book about higher tones rather than overtones.

>> i can hear some high frequencies i cannot catch any of your words but i don't know what you are saying and tell claire, the caption or types what you are saying and she is wirelessly connected she types what you say and i read it in braille with my braille machine then i read the words and i know what you are saying. >>host: you also have another assistant with you who was that? >> that is niro adjust small german shepherd dog was my eyes seeing dog prickly is probably considered a big dog.

>> he is your second dog? >> he is my second dog. my first dog i talk about in my book when i talk about what it was like to go to seeing eye and train with a dog. if you want to have a good relationship with an annual animal or human being you need to invest in that relationship. so i spent three weeks entirely focused on developing relationships with a seeing-eye dog at first it was incredibly awkward for i was a stranger to her. and she was a stranger to me. sometimes she would walk me into chairs. she was fully trained but she

didn't have a relationship with me and we had to work on that relationship. and over time we would understand each other and then it improved dramatically. nine years we worked together and traveled all over the country. when i went to college, she was with me. when i was in alaska she was with me for going to harvard she was there by my side. she was there when i walked across the stage. she passed away from cancer and that was really hard to lose my partner. not just a dog but my partner. she was by my side. . . . .

strategies to help me be more aware of the world. it is like wearing very thin shoes so i can feel the environment more easily when i'm walking. the shift from good to pavement. i can feel all of that through my shoes because they wear flat. i also told my toes upward when i'm walking so they decided to smash against something easier to maintain your balance if yours toes are slightly pointed

upwards. so i rarely fall, partly because i have good balance, partly because of the way i walk, and also because i am a dancer and it helps you develop really good balance. >> host: let's talk about louis and clark college in one of your first advocacy. >> guest: that's a good one. one of my favorite chapters in the book is my time at lewis and clarke college in oregon. it's a small liberal arts college. we did a fantastic job providing access to my classes. i had all the materials for my textbook, everything was going well in my classes. there was just one issue. the cafeteria. in the cafeteria they have six

different foods they serve. you would go and find your station of choice. i couldn't read the menu. blindness wasn't the problem, it never is the problem, the problem is the format of the menu. i went to the manager and asked can you make the menu accessib accessible, you could e-mail it to me or put it in braille or post it online. i have screen readers that will convert it if it is e-mailed in accessible format. the manager told me sorry, we have over a thousand students. we don't really have time to deliver this service. for the first few months, i

tolerate the situation. i told myself at least i have food. at least i'm getting the text books for my classes. at least i'm getting an education. sometimes we engage in the oppression olympics. we compare ourselves and tell us someone else has it worse. stop complaining. at least you don't have as bad as someone else. but that kind of thinking is not helpful. removing the barriers in society is a constantly comparing forms of oppression. i realized if i wanted the system changed, i have to do something. so, i is researched the americas with disabilities act. i talked with advocates. then i told at the university, i told the food service of the cafeteria they have a legal

obligation to make the menu accessible for people with disabilities. and if they don't, i'm going to pursue legal action. i had no idea how i would do that. i was just 18. i couldn't afford a lawyer. now i know there are nonprofit legal centers that will help students with disabilities. but back then, i didn't know that. all i knew if i had to try. i have to do something. and in this case, the very next day the manager apologized and promised to make them accessible. back then, i was a vegetarian and it's much easier to eat vegetarian when you know what the food choices are, when you know which one of the stations is serving a vegetarian meal so i finally could easily eat

vegetarian. the next year a new blind student came to the college who didn't have to fight for access to the menu is. he had immediate access to the menu. that taught me when i advocate, i am removing barriers for an entire community and that inspired me to become an attorney and advocate for people with disabilities. >> host: your book is written in a series of vignettes. why did you choose that model? >> guest: i.e. field stories are powerful to help teach people a lesson. i didn't want to lecture to people. no one wants to be lectured at so instead, i offer to various engaging humorous stories that will help the lessons stick. it teaches us about abe al-isam

it is a set of beliefs that people with disabilities are inferior to the nondisabled. we are not inferior but abl abe al-isam teaches society that we are. so, the story is in mind that help identify abe al-isam and at the end of the book fairs and accessibility if you feel inspired and moved to take that come if you feel inspired to take steps to remove barriers the accessibility guide can he help. >> host: what is your reaction if somebody tells you you are an inspiration to them? >> guest: i told them what are you inspired to do?

>> host: that isn't a word you like, is it? >> guest: it really depends on how people use it. i try to be patient, i'm an advocate. my role is to teach people about accessibility. i ask people what you mean when you say i'm inspiring, do you mean you want to take steps to remove barriers, are you inspired to make your website accessible or is the word inspiration hate the skies, sometimes it is. the word is used so often for people with disabilities when they are not even doing anything productive so we want to ask people be aware of what you're actually saying, try to use a different word, maybe role model, maybe motivation, but ask

yourself what are you really feeling before you use a word. >> host: you write in your book that only 10% of blind people can read braille, and 70% of blind people are unemployed. >> guest: only about 10% of the blind community reads braille because a lot of teachers of the blind are not teaching it. there's an assumption that they can just listen to books on tape or they can just listen to information on their computers, there is no need for braille is the assumption, but if people don't learn braille, they don't develop literacy. it's important to know how words are spelled and sentences are formed. if you only listen to stories,

they will think once upon a time is one word. it's important for more people to learn braille and make sure that our schools are teaching it to blind students and adults become blind later in life we can ensure there are services to teach it to adults because it is a really powerful tool to use to connect with the world and access information and especially when it comes to employment, they have an advantage over the non- braille readers. about 70% of the blind community experiences unemployment and that's because a lot of employers assume blind people can't do lots of different tasks. when i was in college, i wanted to get a summer job just like so

many other college students who want to get a summer job. and a friend of mine told me i know a place where there are lots of summer jobs, alaska. i said okay let's go to alaska. and he was right, there were a lot of summer jobs in alaska. juneau alaska has a large tourism industry, lots of jobs are there to help meet the needs of tourists. i applied to tons of jobs and employers would see my resume, get excited -- i was valedictorian in high school, i had good grades in college, lots of volunteer experiences, so employers would get excited with my resume but once they met me for the interview they realized they had a disability and they would come up with all kinds of excuses. actually, we just filled the position, sorry we are looking

for something different. that was incredibly frustrating. people told me work hard and you will be successful. i worked hard and i still faced barriers. working hard alone is not enough. society needs to remove barriers, employers need to remove barriers. eventually, after a long search, found an employer who was inclusive. it was at a small gym in alaska and i worked as a front desk clerk. my responsibility was being responsible for the cash register, making sure the equipment worked, pinning the changing rooms. one day a woman walked in and told me one of the treadmills isn't working. i followed her to one of the treadmills and i tried hitting the on button. it wouldn't work.

i tried the other buttons, it wouldn't work. i felt the treadmill from top to bottom and on the bottom there was a switch. i flipped the switch and it worked. the lady told me my goodness i didn't see that switch. i told her i didn't see it either. sometimes nonvisual techniques are equal in value and surpass visual technique is. >> host: just to go back to that story, was you're hearing better at that time that you could understand the woman speaking to you? >> guest: yes. i could hear more back then. i was still deaf. it is a spectrum so if someone was close to me i could

understand them. >> host: i saw earlier when i spoke to you you couldn't hear me but when claire spoke to you, you could hear her very clearly or more clearly. >> guest: claire ha has this likely higher voice than you do. i think you have a lower voice, so she is a little easier to hear. i still don't hear her very well. i catch bits and pieces of what she says. >> host: you describe yourself in your book as ultra- visible and invisible. >> guest: it's complicated. i stand out as a black woman that's blind with a guide dog and a funny computer, so people see me, but at the same time they don't see me because they see all the stereotypes of

blindness, they see the blind beggars that are the stereotypes that we must often see in the media and all the stereotypes about black people. so much of our history the words death and dom have gone together and a lot of people assume that we are less intelligent, which isn't fair. i want society to change and get rid of those assumption and move away from the charity model and start seeing people with disabilities as talented, with valuable contributions to society. >> host: you arrived here at the building by yourself with your milo. what is your system if you've never been to this building what is your system for arriving?

>> guest: [laughter] we have a system called structure discovery which means you use your skills, your orientation and ability skills. when i was in high school and after high school i received a lot of training from orientation professionals who taught me how to navigate through spaces i've never experienced before and a lot of spaces have patterns, sidewalks, streets, buildings so when i arrived here, we moved through the lobby until we found a reception area. one of your staff members helped

identify a seating area and i used my keyboard in braille to help communicate with the staff members. >> host: player, what do you do for a living, is this a full-time job for you? you?guest >> no, that i am a caption or so i caption tv, college classes, plays, musicals, sporting events. >> host: how long have you been doing that? >> guest: i have been doing that for three years. >> host: is the system come into this is a question for you, is the system something new came up with or who invented what we are doing here? >> guest: this is a braille

computer and it's been around since about the 80s but for the most part, they didn't have bluetooth. this model came out with bluetooth and i started asking myself would be possible to connect it to a keyboard and if i connected it to a keyboard could buy better communicate with people. braille is my strongest way to communicate. i also do some sign language. i am not fluent and most hearing people don't know sign language. most hearing people can type. if i had someone to keyboard most likely they will be able to type and i will be able to read what they are saying in braille so i started looking for different keywords, testing it with the computer to try to find out which ones work, which ones

are most portable and resilient because you have to have them in all kinds of environments. sometimes people accidentally spill things. so i carry a keyboard and also a backup one just in case. >> host: you tell the story in your book about a party after your first semester in law school. [laughter] >> guest: that is a good story. for the most part, i have avoided loud noisy environments and parties because before i had this computer and keyboard, i had no way to communicate with people in loud noisy environments, so i would miss out and be excluded in this setting. then in 2010 before i started law school, i found this system

and started slowly using it in different environments. at the end of my first semester in law school several of my classmates got together at a bar to celebrate the end of classes. when i arrived it was extremely nervous because i wasn't sure how it would work, how would i be able to communicate and it actually worked out really well. in bars people stream their voices to be heard, to be understood and my classmates enjoyed the opportunity to rest their voices and just type. they didn't have to shout to communicate with the. they could take a break and just type and i would be able to read. that worked out well until someone had too much to drink. then his words turned into gibberish and i couldn't

understand him. i asked myself what would i want to fire in his shoes what would i expect of a friend so i offered to walk him home. we were struggling to communicate, but he really admired maxine, my seeing eye dog. so i was able to convince him to help. so going off in the wrong direction i had to remind him to follow maxine. >> host: you write in your book the world is a steaming censor these two to 56 sensory stew. >> guest: there's something

always going on in the world you're not seeing and hearing. there's constantly experiences we are missing out and it's really important to be able to focus and be present on what you can access. there are so many things you can experience and feel. i find such is a skill and ability. few people can't come a various levels of intelligence, some people are good at picking up environmental information through skin. if somebody walks by me i can feel the air change as they walk by. there are a lot of little signals you can pick up if you pay attention so that is one of the stories in my book where i discovered textile intelligence and they start building up that spill.

>> host: who is gor is gordon as he a still part of your life? >> guest: gordon is one of my best friends. i have a team of maybe ten people who take turns traveling with me two different events and typing. gordon is really good at typing and describing the world in identifying challenges. i think it's important for everyone to have a person who can help you identify a bosom or sexism or racism. sometimes the world gets overwhelming and we feel tired and not able to advocate for ourselves but if you have a network of friends who can help cheer for you and help you

advocate when you struggle to advocate for your self, it's really important. >> host: you talk about the loneliness sometimes. >> guest: i don't have a community that automatically gets me. blind people don't automatically get someone who is deaf blind. the communities don't automatically understand me so i have to work to build bridges and help explain this is how i communicate and access information let's find a middle ground we can all communicate and understand each other. that takes work. it's a process and sometimes it gets exhausting. >> host: your brother was porn deaf blind as well, correct?

>> guest: yes, and that's interesting. one of my brothers is also deaf blind and has a completely different experience than me. his deafness and blindness is different. his communication style is different. he was born and raised in a tree and i was born and raised in the united states. we have some similarities and also some differences so we have to work to find a way to communicate. sometimes we use a braille computer and keyboard and sometimes we use sign language. >> host: july 20, 2015. >> guest: i love to date. >> host: why? [laughter] >> guest: july 20, 2015 is an

amazing date because that's the date i met president obama. the white house so they did 25th anniversary of the americans with disabilities act and invited disability rights advocates to come and celebrate. they also invited me to introduce president obama and vice president joe biden at the ceremony. that was an incredible honor. >> host: but with your interaction with the president like? [laughter] >> guest: it was amazing. at first i wasn't sure what to expect. some people when i need them they don't want to interact with me because they are nervous or uncomfortable. people don't like stepping out of their comfort zone.

typing is familiar but it's also still different some people. some people refusing to say no. president obama graciously switched from voicing to typing so i could access his words. he was a slow typist that i can read slowly so we were still able to communicate. >> host: you write in the book you didn't bring maxine to the white house. why not? >> guest: sometimes when i travel with maxine or my the conversation shifts to the dog and i thought i would maybe only have two minutes of president obama and i was concerned we

wouldn't give disability rights and access disability if my dog stole the show so i chose not to bring my dog because i was concerned the conversation would be about dogs. it probably wouldn't have. i'm sure he still would have talked about accessibility and inclusion, but that was one of my concerns. >> host: when you decided to write the book and go on but for what were your biggest concerns? >> guest: i think a lot of authors are concerned readers won't get the message and that is a common fear every reader interprets the story different differently. i've gotten feedback from readers of different feedback.

some stories really stick with readers and others they entirely miss the message said it's been fascinating for me to hear back from readers. people can send th me messages through social media on fire, facebook. my name is @habengerma. what was your favorite part of the? >> host: eyeballs just say i enjoyed all of the buck. when people go to your website or social media site and type a message to you, what is the procesprocess that gets your ke, how does that work? >> guest: the social media companies have accessibility

teams to ensure tha that website accessible. it isn't perfect but if somebody sends a message through twitter, software called screen reader that is usually a voiceover on my phone will convert the images on the screen, the graphical information to speech. the only time the text is easy to read images and videos are difficult. some people include image descriptions. a lot of people don't include image descriptions way to access a video there needs to be a transcript of the video and captions have individuals that are cited as a people ca peoplee

captions. >> host: my favorite part of darpa does the fact tell me about the bar -- >> guest: people are important to me and i can learn a lot when i ask them to describe a setting they immediately describe the food and others will tell me the animals they see like the dogs or the cats are in the room, others focus on jewelry, somehow someone describes a setting tells me a lot about that

person. >> host: where our mom and dad? do they live close to you? >> guest: relatively, yes they live close by. >> host: are they still worried about you? >> guest: yes. [laughter] you write in the buck i like my deaf blind world. it's comfortable, familiar, it's all i know, it is my normal. i'm comfortable and happy with what i have.

i do love increasing my skills and ability and talent. so if someone were to offer me a solution that would allow you to hear all the information around me, i will take it. if someone offered an opportunity to fly, i will take it until then i would be content taking airplanes but i'm happy to improve and advance. >> host: here's a book, haben, the deaf blind woman who conquered harvard law and she's been our guest. thank you all for being here.

[inaudible conversations] >> good morning! [cheers and applause] i'm carla hayden, the librarian of congress, and i hope you all have been enjoying yourselves this morning. [cheers and applause] now, we have a rather large crowd this morning for this