>> good evening. good evening. i'm steve we bert with the like library's public affairs staff and i want to welcome you and thank you for being with us tonight. and thanks to rainy day books, our frequent and favorite collaborator and of course one over the nation's great independent book stores. we operated ourselves here at the library among other things on the timeliness and the relevance of our signature programming, whether we're holding forums on local issues or addressing emerging or hot button national topics. we certainly didn't intend on the particular timeliness of tonight's presentation. christopher leonard was a busy

man at the end of last week. taking reporter calls, wrote a coup of op-ed pieces for "the new york times" and for cnn business. after the death of david koch. chris spent aye eight years ee. americaed in kochland, the place and title of his book, pulling back the curtain on the extraordinary business empire and the very potent political network that was put together by david koch and his old are brother, chatter, from their base three hours don the road in wichita. ...

is cracked into a despite his limited access to companies including cook industries mastermind. it is so excessively written. it is fascinating, is dramatic in places at the very top of the journalist of checklist it is fair maybe more than some people would like. new york times said in its review, it ranks among the best books ever written about an american corporation. >> coke was released to reisinger today and immediately crack at times top ten list of

nonfiction bestsellers. chris was born and raised here in kansas city. grew up in brookside area, went to college at a meal, and it was there that he got hooked on journalism. he wrote his first job after graduation at the daily tribune. it was a business reporter there, that is been one ever since. he went on to be an arkansas democratic gazette and associated press reworked out of st. louis. when is the tribune in columbia, he worked a story on tyson foods. with that, he began it straight with corporate power. which is broadest to tonight. chris is here for the second time. he spoke at the central library in 2014, on his book, the meat market in the secret takeover of america's food business. which is about a handful of companies had for the u.s. meat supply. joining him on stage, lee shaun,

so longtime broadcaster who has collaborated on a couple of the books. including psych james autobiography. he was terrific, if you know here and interviewing the former mayor in july. that is about the book. he had both of them here with us tonight. please we will sean and we will christopher d. [applause] [background sounds] [inaudible conversation] kansas city and mainly midwesterners are in this book in this room. we will to this part of the

country. i thank with all of this are guilty of it's not fully understanding how your book eliminates this tremendous power is part of the country. namely in which we just saw. >> what attracted me so much to this story is how powerful and how influential this instituti institution, and industries it and how little-known it is. we'll talk about this, it's not secretive in this john james bond sense, it is an institution that doesn't want the rest of the world to know what it is doing strategic reasons. the space into what they do and how the make so much money. you've got this massively powerful institution that affects everybody's. coke industries specializes in the kind of businesses, is the stuff you can't boycott or live that went out. gasoline to drive people to wo work, and the wall panels and

the structures and the carpeting in the material in her clothing that's nylon and spandex. in one of the world his largest makers of nitrogen fertilizer, which is something most people don't thank that they bite but this is the literal bedrock of our food system so coke industries is engaged in these businesses that his client on the surfaces earning stunning profits. the annual sales are bigger than that of facebook and golden and you still be combined. and at the same time, you counter the coke namebrand. you never know you know engaging with is coming. so that's what really drew me to it so long with the fact that when you are writing about this company, i feel like you are writing about an entire american economy and even the entire political system because coke is so diverse and it is the story of blue-collar manufacturing workers on the factory floor whom i belong to the labor

unions who have got a pay raise in 20 years. your writing about highflying finance who are earning millions of dollars a year his training future contracts. private equity dealmakers with koch. ewing out across the country looking for the company to buy. today is depths to bite and then pressure them to boost productivity and profit and finally writing about one of the largest corporate lobbying operations in the country. corporate lobby. taken together, the story of this company over the last 50 years, release a portrait of corporate power in in our company and our country. has a lot to do it is going on in our economy today. early in our book we talk about 1988 when the federal government through the indian bureau of affairs, finds out about coke industries. and what you realizes this is

1988, multibillion dollar corporation and energy. congress had no idea who they were. some people that their part of coca-cola and they were sitting people are to atlanta and people were pronouncing it koch. even on the insiders of the insiders. not only did they not know to the general public but not to the united states congress. the book serves the fbi agent hiding behind much of cal's survey and. [laughter] he sent an investigator, with a huge issue off of this oil off of this inulin. who are these people. all of a sudden they come to realize this company is the largest crude oil gathering company in the united states and nobody's ever heard of it. coke. roger l williams who was on a

plane with charles koch in the late 60s, an american little bit, we can talk about the scope family. we can turn talk about charles koch but safe to say that charles koch took over the company in 1967 when his father passed away. and they were rearranging the firm try to figure out what to name it and they specifically start joe's name koch because it was a family name that exhaustively completely that went out character, hard to remember and with that description. they were not a consumer oriented company that wanted to develop a brand name, they were a company who wanted to avoid scrutiny. largely because they were in the oil business. the theory of the oil businesses have the opposite of their old staying that's what's good for the general motors co. is good for the united states. americans felt very differently in the oil in the 70s with the oil prices shot up. companies were getting massive

profits. at the expense of ordinary people. it is sort of stay in the background when you are in a business like this. behind the curtain. and just quietly make a fortune. charles koch is the second born brother but he is really the picture. truly is the patriarch and early in the book we do talk about his visit, and this no matter how people view charles koch it cuts both ways. where wall street financial lawyers come to visit him. he sent them away. he's not interested in about going public. everyone in here is either running or about or read it. it is absolutely brilliant. >> you don't have to read it but if you could please buy the book. [laughter]. i would really appreciate that. >> so koch since them away. so on the one hand you thank good for my fellow kansas man. he says in new york man packing.

the other side of it is there's an old carrier motive. it's not just sticking up for the little guy, they don't want the scrutiny. they are beholden into unto anybody except their family. >> talk about this family. this company koch industries was founded by fred koch. lives in wichita kansas, in the 1960s, he owned a wide assortment of cattle ranches, oil refineries, pipeline networks. he died of heart attack in november of 1967. his son charles, was the president of the company in just 32 years old at the time. that's when charles koch soon controlled the firm. from the beginning, this guy, who by the way is the ceo ever since that time. he became ceo when lyndon johnson was president. for 50 years. i know of no other corporation in america that is been the ceo

by single personality for that long. from the very beginning, he had a very clear idea how a corporation to be run. one of the key elements of the dna, is long-term strategic thinking. this is an organization that on the horizon, of two and five and ten years out. headed same time, they operate the secrecy and they talked about that when i talk this whole theory of training. charles koch knew that he wanted to remain private and retain control and he wanted to be able to not only turn the quarter to quarter to quarter as so many corporations do today, he wanted to be able to thank more long-term. as you say, these bankers came to wichita from j.p. morgan said take it public. you have access to all this money and everything. and you personally will get $25 million tonight. it was a no-brainer. and he sent him packing. the memo that the rope living at home and you just see, they were

banging their heads against the desk because charles koch does not want this cash. in one of the fascinating things that he told them was illegal public, not only will i be answerable to shareholders or three months but then people know how much money are commodities traders make. and if they know how much our traders may, they won't do business with us anymore. this is very important to me. if we could talk a moment with the training. it's at the heart of this organization. it is at the heart of how they thank and what they do and both in the corporation and politically. the thing that really change how i see the world, was interviewing these traders. from the 1970s, koch industries has been one of the largest traders energy supply the world. buying and selling supertankers full of crude oil. barrels of crude oil and shipping the stuff. in the beginning training the future contracts and based on

actual oil supply. to succeed in live is the traitor, you want to know more about the world than anybody else. you wouldn't know what oil is actually the real world is worth today. better than anybody else knows. so 70s going to sell you a barrel of oil for $50 you might know that is worth $52. cigna boy all you get a 50. the need to wait for the world to wake up to the reality is worth 52. then you are going to own. so with this reason, koch realizes back in the 70s that the most important resource they deal with is crude oil and natural gas, it is actually data and knowledge about the world. they were in a particularly good place to be knowing about this because they ran huge chunks of the system. the golf course of the united states and therefore they could

make a bet and public knowledge that a shipment was about to come into the coast. at the same time, they were very as much data and information on the role as possible. this code of the year 2000, koch hired meteorologist on the weather channel, in-house to create internal secret weather forecast for koch. they would be better than public forecast. they would put a fake energy demand in. how quick tight tap into these weather predictors say from california and snowfall. and it has all of this data analyzed and use it to make trades out in the real world. so when this is your line of work, you don't want other people to know what you know, you don't want other people to know what you are about to to do. and that's why they're associating with his secrecy,

and what they do. it is strategic. the company, in 1992 and is the giant black granite building with fake windows. that is not coincidental. it's on the northern side of wichita kansas, and they don't want you to know what they're doing. as the polar opposite of trump towers van manhattan. [laughter]. >> the say there are philosophical differences and charles koch that's for sure. [laughter] the term koch brothers that is almost shakespearean. he spin the patriarch in the ceo says he was 30 years old, charles the oldest brother, wanted nothing to do with the company. and then the two youngest david who just passed away and we'll about him, and bill, and bill

wound up suing and in the long legal fight with his brothers and quite nasty. >> i thank is the very sad story. the oldest leaves charles is in charge and then he has the other twins. as you.out, the younger brother never content with this idea that his older brother would run the firm. in an actual dispute over how to run the business. charles on a 90 percent of the profits back in and bill wanted to live like a rich person. he wanted take money out of the company and wanted by helicopters and big houses. they fought over how to do this and will try to take over the company and get in they had 20 years of litigation. it was ugly. bill koch hired lawyers and media and created a feeling of being in battle.

kind of a siege mentality. in the 1990s, david koch of course passed away last week. bill mann his show, real time on hbo, is been picked up by all sides of the media. i believe it direct quote of what bill marks said. i'm glad he was dead and i healthy and was painful. the bill marked put. whatever they thank of him, he's probably hard-core the left. but the victory, he didn't that when president bush best way. i thank site outside of i thank outside of donald trump, i don't thank he would say that about anybody. the koch brothers were the absolute enemy of the environment, everything is starting the global warning. i see that a lot. to me my job exceedingly difficult to report in this

company because there is an atmosphere of toxicity and hostility and bad in distrust and all the rest of it the first ball makes people inside the company extremely hesitant to share the story and extremely hesitant to talk. maybe that's one reason the book took so long to report. as opposed to a reporter in general, i thank it's extremely unhelpful for our general understanding of how things work to have such rhetoric becomes such a commonplace thing. based on my own wilderness somewhat. i wrote two essays, for cnn business talking about this empire. in her essay was critical of david koch in his role politically and delaying every any inference in the gas

emissions. which we can talk about. i truly do thank will become a large part of his legacy in the world. on a human loophole, i thank that's an awful thing to do is to criticize somebody that just passed away. as reported however, there was one hot moment when the world really wanted to learn about david koch. as they happen, i had been spending years in reviewing people who knew him. looking at the empire, at the political operation that he oversaw and i felt like i had something to tell people. both positive and critical. the timing was as a person, not great. i woke up saturday feeling like crud but as a reporter, you've got to really tell people the truth. and tell them what's going on here. the truth of what koch industries in the family has done politically, have been obscured and again intentionally because the political operations

and imitated ingrown from the business operation. they've taken from the exact same blueprint and playbook, what koch does politics is often obscured is what they are doing the derivatives market. i thank it's important for the reporter to tell people this is what happened. in black-and-white way in 20 years, and is the very important. then global warming, nothing more important. next 30 to 40 years or longer. >> son of david koch really see, and you uncovered this, this was a really sincere investigative journalism and you were the first to break it. not only did they criticize global warming but how early they did that. i don't thank that's ever been really fully understood. don't know how early they wanted to debunk the theory. no matter what political spectrum you are on.

but really starts with the koch brothers. >> i started reporting the story for a simple reason. if you raise years ago, i was interviewing a former senior lobbyist for koch industries. wanted to know how they did what they did and how they got to be so good. what was your front issue, what woke you up in the morning, but what is it. and he said carbon. no hesitation. carmen was the preeminent political issue for the operation. maybe you could take those second to talk about koch industry and politics and what they've done. that's perhaps in perhaps more attention than their very important economic activities. from the 60s, charles koch koch had a very particular view of how society offered destruction. he called himself a classical liberal. these views, libertarian, developed by these economists, i

read human actions, you don't have to. [laughter] extremely long and fascinating in this book. anyway, [laughter]. what charles koch thinks is that this organize society as a voluntary market exchange system and that the actual sovereign doesn't have to be the price, human set prices by what they actually care about. i wanted tell you what i care about the price reflects it. you need to honor ted prize. so there must be a place for healthcare for roads for education and you name it. all the stuff needs to do only through free market we try to intervene in the market, with government programs and such, and you give it to those who are losers, you know distorting the system. according to charles koch.

he has worked diligently and patiently and breathtakingly in a disciplined fashion since the 1970s. the dominican american society reflects his view. he did it by funding things thank tanks and he tried to stay away from corporate lobbying until the 1990s when that oil investigation came out. then he realized that we've got to be in washington. if not there, in a big way then we are going to be. you have the old staying is if you are not at the table you know on the menu. [laughter] so the '90s, he builds a political apparatus. it includes several components. i'd like to say when i started reporting this work, i thought it was going to be writing the political parts. i thought it would writing about super action campaign donations and boy was i wrong. that was the wrong area of focus. the real action we started the day after the election.

we do get into the regular business of really governing down in the pikes of the system. thus for koch has its expertise. and truly boxes its muscle. so they built this multifaceted machine includes the largest ledges start, very nice offices, cubicles had taped to the side of two power lies in. [silence] absorbed that for a second. that is awesome. you you've got that corporate lobbying stuff. then you but the constellation of thank tanks. he has built this. and he founded it. the american energy alliance. the independent energy research. the institute of energy research. they truly promote ideas. washington dc, still pretty full

small town, and the mainstream these ideas they koch has. knowing that this network of political. the charles koch convened twice a year and supposes more money or as much money during a command cycle is the political party itself. huge money that can sway. finally, you get this activists network called americans for prosperity. but in the ground of a nationwide activists network that can activate people to go knock on doors, they can fill buses full of angry herders and prosperity will charter buses from north carolina and west virginia and missouri and ohio and bring them to washington dc. they will give the glossy protest signs and give them a free box lunch and then take them to very specifically targeted congressional offices to give the point of view. to support koch his.of view as well. so you see in this entire

machine, is the ability to not just sway and influence policy, but the right policy to create policy and is been an remarkably effective in washington dc. one of the ways in one of the key elements as i began this walk, is they have recognized for decades that if the prices ever put on carbon emissions, or it could have dramatically negative consequences for their business going out decades. imagine having all of these billions of dollars invested in physical oil refineries. in pipelines in the trading debts that you have, all of that. that could affect collapse the demand. diminishes even further going out into the future decades. so they vigorously fought but to

truly delay any activity in regulating greenhouse emissions. >> one thing is clear in your book and again it's very solid and investigative reporting. even though the koch brothers are massive donors to the republican party, this is that the religious light. these are not social conservatives. this is coming from a libertarian free market viewpoint. my question for you is do you thank in light of the republicans that a pragmatism for the best interest of the business opposed to ideology. >> i have this letter the charles koch wrote 1974, donors to the libertarian party. it said i am disgusted with the republicans. they are just as big government liberals is the democrats are. if you have the view i just

described about how the world out of work with government intervention. the republicans are frustrating, to charles koch for decades. fast-forward in the year 2005, i interviewed the sky name steve monaghan who is one of the very first directors for mac is for prosperity and he vigorously remembers going to one of the early events when they started this network when charles koch said, look the democrats are a lost cause. were never going to influence them, were never going to get them to see our agenda. were going to focus on republicans. we need to move the republican party to where we see the world. strict libertarian. anti- regulation. stop government spending. so for prosperity and koch the vast majority of the buying power if you will, on the republican party his to transform that and i thank the reason is, they see that is the only viable option. david koch ran as a vice president nominee on the

libertarian ticket, back in 1980, when around the country and donated a bunch of money and gave speeches and one 3 percent of the full. he doesn't hold well. it isn't really ever. we realize we need to transform the republican party to achieve policy end. i thank there's been a strong relationship over decades. >> did he strongly opposed that president obama and the candidacy of now president trump. what about terms of social issues, on the economy, where do you feel that now charles falls on that political spectrum and more on social issues, is beyond the self interest of what they've done with the republican party and in terms of the regulation and economic libertarian viewpoint. >> it must be frustrating i thank.

because the process i've just described, has been in place as the 1970s to create free-market utopia in the united states. it is consistently frustrating. at the beginning of 2015, charles koch, had essentially selected top candidates in the republican party including bush and ted cruz. the reality television stars, comes so long, and flips over the game table. and does so with an agenda that is at odds with the koch agenda. this american first, agenda of donald trump it's not coinciding with what the cokes wanted at all. there's a big part terms agenda that they love. which is dismantling the administrative state as we call it. literally tearing by the epa for example. the transition documents that the trump team took in. to the epa. it's items 12 and three are carbon carbon carbon. that's a christmas list for

charles koch. that's fantastic. but donald trump has shown this willingly to impose tariffs. trade deals. that the integration rhetoric is massive to the koch network. they're pushing to contain trump where they can. and in hope trump where they want to help with her be appointing conservative tearing apart the administrative state, and we can talk about this that had tremendous influence on this exit forum plate. >> will ask you about the culture of koch industries. one thing that comes out, very clear in your book is this it's not a fortune five hundred company. charles koch voice put a premium outside of the box thinkers, he saw it on out entrepreneurs and he did not want company men and company women just coming in and staying yes sir mr. koch. he wanted people to challenge them, he was always looking ahead thinking what happens in tender years or 20 or 30. it's in a book, best example

quarterly budgets, that's for publicly traded companies. just like that it was gone. >> is astounding. i shouldn't say this publicly but i'm going to. i this moment was working on this book when i thought god i want to work for koch. [laughter] >> airbase going to hate me on twitter for that one. it's true though. in his following sins, and i get the negatives and outside later but trump truly has built the central adaptive entrepreneurial organization in the example you picked out is perfect. the corporate budgets back in the 70s, because everybody would write this budget and the spin three months trying to hit the budget numbers. iit is a waste of time and thank how many people in publicly traded corporations were

spending so much of their time to do that. they just said get rid of it. we will need to bother with that. they created this very actually, complicated specifically philosophy called market-based management. we do get hired koch industries, you'll spend the first three to four days in her job, in an auditorium in the baseman learning this philosophy. he going to allude the vocabulary of the concept the directives. and these people at koch walk around speaking this language to each other. they only understand it. so the guy koch says, he is the mean appointed view, then a mean things like humility. we are and downside risk, and be ready for negative surprises, it's not like we are humble.

his several strategic concepts. the corporate philosophy is so phased-in and so encoded that charles koch himself was a total conversion. market-based management and all the way our urls. the koch way. it's literally like his own society, his own ecosystem and its own country. gosh i am thinking now about the first time i visited koch industries in 2015 i just drove up to the front door and walked in. with a refurbished it corporate headquarters in 2014. one of the things they added was an enormous tall earthen wall that surrounds the north part. it's literally like fortress. i'm nursing a corporation in one way more in solar. in a way that people are and embrace of this corporate culture while at the same time more and more in the everyday live, as they continue to grow,

it's pretty amazing. >> as you look at koch industries, they are so secretive. going back to their father. they've always had that culture of secrecy. yet you know given unprecedented access. why did they let you in ? >> first they said no way. because they googled me. i spent a pretty miserable week top and knocking on peoples doors and said i really want understand this institution. the whole job is you knock on six doors, and you get six doors slammed in your face and then the seventh door opens and then you talk to somebody and you learn and you take that knowledge and you knock on seven more doors. and then maybe two doors will open then and eventually koch industries realized this reporting is going to happen. and we would like to have our.of

view in there. in the extremely grateful and extremely glad they did. they told me stories that are truly amazing. there's a chapter in the book about how he got in front of an exploited of crude oil in southern texas. it would blow your mind how they did that. how they got ahead of that. even their analysis. i only knew that because i interviewed the ceo of the oil physician. it is a mystery, kind of starting to open the doors and be more wheeling to tell a story and then on the other side, just the nature of reporting which is extremely stubborn and repetitive phone calls and you know, surfing through thousands of pages of documents both of it is court appearances, government investigations and eventually just overtime the whole picture. almost by statement.

>> any time your profiling anyone or a corporation, falls into one or two categories. a love letter or not. whenever people his political size are, whatever your views are, with the koch brothers this plate is right down the middle. was that your aspiration for this book. >> yes. i thank that my firm deep conviction if i know that nobody really cares about what i thank about koch industries. what people really want is just good information. in really good reporting. it was a way to go out on their behalf and find out what is going on and describe it in a way that is easy to digest. so then we can walk around with a better understanding of our world. this lego that is why i go to these institutions that affect our lives, are really operating

in what is really going on in the world. so in the middle of the book is to simply describe as super important institution and he is that as a way to impact what is going on in america today. why is our economy structured in a way that weekend have ten years of a can of a group that many people in the middle class don't advance economically at all during the decade. so start to look at those questions. >> i thank the job is to describe just to describe and figure out what's going on. getting accurate picture. getting on paper and get into readers hands. then they are ultimately going to be the judge. an inappropriate use of power do we want to live in a country where the economy is structure. >> i encourage you to come up and ask questions. a few more for your first thou

though. yearbook has a lot of pressing or selling a lot of copies. boats of sales, 13000 i believe. it is phenomenal. what is been the reaction of all the pellet the city from koch industries towards you and your book. >> koch industries, i describe the relationship, and in february, before the book came out. i said the public relations department about 260 pages of material to give them the full fair chance to respond. i just said here bluntly is everything that is going to be bad. i told them from the beginning, my role models are reporters and this is going to be a portrait, i want to capture the brilliance and downsizing the blind sides, and they knew that. so they had months to respond.

we had a lot of back and they did engage. it was a good productive process. i thank everybody, got tense at times fumbles it got heated. but then once the book comes out, it's been mostly radio. [silence] the public relations teams is probably trying to proactively get out of the story is positive. you see in charles koch, a lot of advertisements on twitter, and his television about the positive side of koch industries. i thank that's just great. they should get that story out there. my job is an independent reporter is to show the good and the bad. the consequences of their actions, that have been negative in the parts of the institution that are admirable. i thank it should be said. but people in politics and business. again, i thank our country is

been desperately an charter supply of long-term strategic thinking. this is the case study of long-term strategic thinking. his great for anybody to read. >> talked about the victory in the large portion of the american public shares that. maybe out to the extreme of what bill and more said but it certainly shows that viewpoint. as you fit look at that koch brothers billionaires, working the oil industry and trying to influence the elections. those three factors are going to make any american popular. do you thank that those are the main factors to the fact that they been notified in the large sections of this country or anything is beyond that? >> i'm sorry, our immediate landscape is garbage today. it is a climate of permanent hostility. >> is the media guy folks. i fully agree 100 percent. >> the species cannot survive, the little creatures, and

difficult thinking so that is one reason why these people are talked about, i can't tell you how many people, they are evil. this organization has had dramatic effects on public policy in the united states. the book documents crime they have committed. in 1996, intentionally polluted wetlands near one of their refineries rather than shut down the plant. in this money. and it was a crime. but, it's not helpful to simply i thank paint things in a black-and-white picture. so the question is so i thank the people it is very hop in america right now i thank there is a deep understanding that the

system we aired all of the time, the system is rigged. the statistics on the french page of the journal confirms that the middle class is swamped with debt. we've had decade of economic great. the gain is actually done by very small number of people. it's creating heat, and then reelected donald trump and i thank that helps describe a lot of what's going on right now. to deal with the problems you need to diagnose it accurately. you need to thank about it deeply and it's not helpful i thank to try to just find to use something as a punching bag. >> i know you guys want to ask questions that we have a microphone here. i am so happy your here. come back it's kind of like a

dance floor, nobody wants to be first. go ahead sir. >> will try to be polite. >> don't bother you don't have to. >> i'll ask you this question because generally people don't know. this is the political question. it's kind of a loaded word control but how much influence do they have on local politics in wichita. how much control he use that word but influence do they have in topeka because were talking about local politics and am pretty familiar with how much influence they have in washington but i'm not and i'm more curious local, how much interest do they freely have. >> i'm not going to live, i did not report on wichita the city that much. it's pretty big.

they are a huge corporate in wichita that i have a look to politics there. in kansas, the effect has been enormous. in mean there's a chapter in the book that looks at the window power sector. and how aggressively they fought against it. state senator named tom, he retired and tells the story of how he came to support alternative energy sources. i dismember and take apart the growing industry in kansas. and of course the brownbag and the sort of vision that the tax structure had. it was very involved in that and their influence on kansas politics is tremendous. it is huge. >> i've kind of a political question.

the feud between trump and koch, do you feel like that will perhaps cause a schism or a civil war between say the economic nationalist. in the koch philosophy. that that will cause a freeway brawl or whatever within the right wing within the right wing of the republican party is that something that could go beyond the coax and trump and get into the bowels of the republican party? >> yes the way you describe it is that right now a lot of the political chapters in the boot happened literally in the baseman. the staff in the heart office building, and the machine of the work, there on extremely the republican party and it is a

intense and constant back and forth. koch wins when certain federal judges are appointed. mitch mcconnell, fitz at donald trump is completely happy to let that happen. koch loses when donald trump puts in these massive tariffs and disrupts the global energy system in the global trades. it is the tug of war and neither party is trying to completely preach the party. i just had no clue as we all know donald trump has to recommend a support within the republican party and so as you have seen many times, the politicians critical to take them on. what's interesting is the people who are, are very close with the koch network. they stand up if you will for this policy. back in 2020s would be a huge year if donald trump wins, i

thank it will affect the republican party for generation. >> i have so many questions so that when i want to ask you most is about koch his of his own workers. and i know that he didn't fall far from the tree, his father fred koch, was one of the activists when kansas has the right to work in the 1950s, it is santa even from the beginning. i've read another book talked about the workers that was killed because of being poisoned. and i know that in george's pacific, there's unions and ko koch, try to tell us workers had about. can you comment on some of the things you read across and during the research in terms of the way he related this to his

workers. >> this is so predictable but please read the book. labor unions is threaded throughout this book. charles koch has been from the beginning as he said, we need took over the company, to break the union in minnesota and is very militant union. as a nine-month straight. a really hard fight. then over the years, they have funded the right to work efforts. they battled that across the board. we do ask how he retreats his workers, there are a lot of people who work at the headquarters at wichita that would jump in front of the bus for charles koch. they admire him and they admire the culture. they are hard-working people to give their lives to this company. then you've got other workers like these blue-collar

manufactured workers who spent years of reporting on their massive distribution center there. i've got contracts going back to the 70s, and i had outside guy analyze them. he hasn't gotten raises 1980s. they are working longer and harder hours than ever, somebody inside georgia said ten years of internal safety data that shows koch and firm, activists have been steadily rising since at least 20000 and 12. these are negative consequences for employees. so the picture is mixed. i truly thank it reflects broader trends going on in america today. labor unions have had problems. they had problems in the 70s. but we do go from 32 americans having taken 7 percent. before it is is today. you see these consequences from

middle-class workers. this is the very important part of the story. >> you've exercised to the degree of which charles koch sets the tone. and has for a off a century. but he is in a man in his 80s i believe, is there an error apparent. what is likely to happen when charles koch goes to that growth oil well in the sky. [laughter] >> so what happens we need steps away. chapter 22 charles koch son, born in 1977 -ish and we was born, he hung up the banner in his office and said we will crown prince. that's the burden this guy has had head his whole live. >> he's been given a fascinating education in the institution from the age of seven.

for all that he's remarkably levelheaded guy who has almost forged his own live and. to answer your question, i thank eventually james koch will run that corporation. the big question is in the future. how much of this explosive growth that we saw the last few years is attributable to an individual named charles koch. and how much is it attributable to which is the corporate culture. in the institutions that he has put in place. he says that the company will continue to grow that went out him. and only time was that question. >> thank you very much. >> i would be remiss not to say that this is déjà vu all over again. your book, your whole conversation, is reminiscent of

john d rockefeller and william rockefeller and you are the mail i would tarbell, history of standard oil company. if you remember, jon d rockefeller junior also had to carry the burden of will and oversee the empire of the standard oil company. while what you conversed today, is that parallels are unprecedented. my question to you is, in light of my statement, have you ever researched the gilded age and some of the robber barons and a lot of these carnegie his and rockefeller and so forth. and what parallels are we going through a second gilded age.

>> i was really nervous when that question started out. [laughter]. but i really appreciate it. [laughter] i just thought that was literally my sku. what she did for investigative journalism in the early 19 hundreds a set set the templin for what a journalist to do. she was amazing. i am upset with that era. a lot of what's going on in copeland his economic history in the united states. we had the gilded age and other ages from 1865 to roughly 1930s. this was an era of unbridled corporate power in america. i call it the capitalist free fire zone. the problems that emerged from bath in the end monopolies in the workplace injuries, the quality came in and is what led to the new field. in the 1930s on fdr. that is a structure that we were on for maybe 30 to 40 years.

[inaudible conversation] [inaudible conversation] >> so history repeats itself. capitalism returns to amine where then again i believe is in many significant ways. in the question is which path to take forward. and i just, there it's not enough time to talk about it but we are in a state of political paralysis today. what should we do, what role should we play. environment and that, the entrenched incumbents. the big corporations like koch industries. the question is where we go from here i thank. [inaudible conversation]

>> history repeats itself. thank you. >> in your opinion, does charles koch just not appreciate the magnitude of climate change or deceitfully playing the climate denial for profit. >> i'm not even going to preach and i have answer to that. they would not let me interview charles koch on that topic. he has made comments acknowledging the reality of human -induced climate change. which is scientifically inarguable is kind of amazing that that's a controversial statement. but what is he really believe in his heart, does he really thank that the market solutions are going to solve this problem ultimately. i just don't know. i could interview bump up it. it's a huge question. the one thing that weekend

report and we can talk about is that the political network has done. in the real world consequences of that. they've been unique and aggressive in fighting climate change regulation. that is provable. [inaudible conversation] will indict charles koch ecocide has becoming more more of a reality. if we get a guy like bernie sanders in the white house, [laughter], i mean, i don't know how to go on from there [laughter] yeah. there's no body of law that i

thank that that would happen anytime in the near horizon. it's very unpredictable in american politics. >> i seen on the news recently that one of the koch brothers died. to feel that will affect their attitudes going forward. if so in what way. >> i don't thank it will affect their attitudes, i don't thank it will affect their corporations. no significant ways. the david cope was a partner with charles koch, and the charles koch was the dirt driving force. behind the political network. personally tragic as david koch his is, you are not going to see a significant change. at the moment, to watches when charles koch steps away chase cope takes a larger role. that will answer the question on

both of things will change or not. >> final question here please. >> could you briefly comment on the koch brothers effort to make considerably large political contributions throughout the country to state legislature candidates. >> absolutely. we talk a lot about commodities trading. koch affects politics is the same way as commodities. explosive advantage of knowledge. so koch has essentially built political power in the united states. complex pipeline networks. state legislatures, your court systems and federal local, united states congress, koch examines where it can happen with impact and work in change policy and realized early on,

political power in a state legislature, is an on valued commodity. you can buy it really cheap. . . and they were way ahead of other people and realizing the power and the book talks about that. in un-american policy at the state level. [applause]

>> we will come back to final questions and chris will be available to chat, sign your books and all the rest. we started this in 2011 is a massive undertaking. you certainly had an idea of who the co-predators were when you started. what is the biggest revelation on the other side of this book? >> the analytical of these people, that i did not expect, it blew my mind, i talked to people who have changed my underweight i see the world. they are not focused on a shiny object, their focus on the underlying fundamentals and i think about the four months of life. what surprised me most under most was analytical rigor in the depth of strategic thinking. >> ,. >> thank you.

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