and roger l williams who was on a plane in the late 60s and a backup, we could talk about the cook family and charles kochland, but in 1967 when his father passed away, they were rearranging the firm and try to figure out what to name it. i specifically chose the name kochland because it was a family name but also completely with the character, hard to remember and without subscription. they were not a consumer

oriented companies that want to develop a brand name. they wanted to avoid scrutiny. largely because they were in oil business in the theory of the oil business was ops of the old saying what's good for the motor oil companies good for the united states. when oil prices shot up these companies were getting massive profits at the expense of ordinary people. the idea was when your business like this, these day in the background. he stayed behind the curtain and quietly make a fortune. charles kochland is the second part of her born in the patriarch, early in the book you talk about his visit, this cuts both ways. where wall street lawyers come visit him and take them public. and as a reader of your book is

brilliant. >> you don't have to read it just buy the book. [laughter] i would really appreciate that. >> early on, charles quid pro quo sends them away and you think that is good and the other side of that, there is an ulterior motive. it's not just to get a little diapered they do not want to publicly report things and have that scrutiny. they do not want to be holding to anybody else in the cook koch family. >> it was founded by fred koch who is in wichita, kansas. in the 1960s he owned a wide assortment of assets, cattle ranchers, pipeline networks, he died of a heart attack in november of 1967. his son charles is the president of the company and just 32 years

old at the time and that's when charles koch assumes ownership. from the beginning, this guy charles koch who has been ceo since that time, he became ceo when lyndon johnson was president. he is been in control for 50 years. i know of no other corporation in america has been so shaped by a single person in a single personality. from the very beginning he had a very clear idea of how corporation out of iran. one of the key elements as long-term strategic thinking. it takes on the horizon of two, five, ten years tops. at the same time, they operate the secrecy and i talked about that we talk about the theory of trading. that charles knew he wanted to remain private and remain control and wanted to think not

in terms of quarter to quarter to quarter at 70 corporations do, he wanted to think long-term. as you say the bigger scheme to wichita from j.p. morgan and said take the company public you have all access to all this capital and all this money. you charles koch will get by million dollars tonight. and he sent them packing. i got the memo that he wrote when he got home. they were bringing their heads against the desk and said charles koch does not want this cash. if we go public, not only will the answer of shareholders every few months, people will know how much money are commodities trader makes. and if they know how much the commodity traders make they will not do business with us anymore. that is very important to me. if we could talk for a moment about trading. it's at the heart of the organization. that the heart of what they do

and how they think both in the corporation and politically. the thing that changed how i see the world was interviewing the traders. from the 1970s, koch industries has been the largest traders in the world. buying and selling super traders of crude oil and shipping the stuff. then they begin trading the abstract contracts and based on actual oil supply. so to succeed in life as a traitor, you want to know more about the world than anybody else. you want to know what oil is actually in the real world worth today other than anybody else knows. somebody is willing to sell you a barrel worth $50 you might know it's worth $52 so you might buy all you can 52. you might wake up to 52 and sell everything you own. >> for this reason koch realizes

that the most important resource that they deal with is not crude oil or natural gas as information, data and knowledge about the world. they were in a good position to have that because they had huge chunks of the system. they would ship the oil into the coast of the united states and they can make a bet off the knowledge that it was about to come in to koch. their aggressive as getting as much data in the world as possible. it's good of the year 2000, he hired the best meteorologist in the weather channel, profit and how to create internal secret weather forecast for koch that was better than the public so they get into his fake energy demand. he would tap into the databases of snowfall in california is snowfall is an early predictor

of reservoir levels which is hydroelectric power supply which is electricity prices. they take all of the data, the analyzer and use it to make trade in the real world. so when this is your line of work, you do not want other people to know what you know and you don't want them to know what you're about to do and that's why there's such secrecy around what they do. the company built the headquarters in 1992 and is a giant black granite building that is not quick to do no, it's on the northern side of wichita, kansas and they do not want you to know that they're doing. >> this is term towers in manhattan. >> let's say there's philosophical differences between donald trump and charles kochland for sure.

>> so koch brothers is a lexicon. there are actually four i say that naturally because of the preacher and the ceo since 32 years old, charles the oldest brother has nothing to do the company and the two youngest david who dispatched the and bill, 20 and bill wound up suing in a long legal fight with his brothers and quite nasty. >> it is a really sad story, charles had been charged and he is a younger to and the younger brother bill koch would never think charles would run the farm. they had a dispute on how to run the business. charles wanted 90% of the profits back in bill wanted to live like a rich person take

money out of the company and buy big houses. which he essentially did. but they fought over how to do this, bill tried to take over the company and it failed and they had 20 years of litigation, ugly bill koch hired detectives to dig through charles' trash and negative stories about his brother, and that created a real feeling of being in bottled in this company in a mentality inside the koch industries in the 1980s. david passed away last week. and on hbo this park we can said it's been picked up by also to the media. and he said i'm glad he's dead and i hope it was painful. the patriarch that bill put, he did not say that when former

president pathway. outside of donald trump, i don't know that bill marr would say that about anybody but it really comes from the whole idea that lease from a certain perspective that the koch brothers of the enemy of the environment everything is starting with global warming. >> i say that a lot. it has made my job difficult to report on this company because there is an atmosphere of toxicity and hostility and that distrust and all the rest of it, first of all makes people inside the company extremely hesitant to share their story and extremely hesitant to talk. that's one reason the book took so long to report. i suppose as a reporter in general i think it is extremely unhelpful for a general understanding how things work to

have such vitriolic rhetoric becomes such a commonplace. i need to own my own world, it was very kind in the introduction, i wrote two essays when david koch tucked away talking about his business empire. the other essay was a goal of debris kochland and his role politically and delaying any efforts to regulate greenhouse gas emissions which we can talk about. i do think will become a large part of legacy in the world. donna human level, that's an awful thing to do to criticize somebody when they pass away. and as a reporter there was one moment when the world wanted to learn about david kochland that to happen after spending years interviewing people who know david koch and looking at the empire that made him rich. i felt like i had something to tell people both positive and

critical. and that the person is not great and i woke up saturday feel like garbage from being honest. but as a reporter your job is to tell people the truth and tell people what is going on in the truth of what koch industries in the family has done politically is obscured intentionally because of political operations have grown from the business operations. they are taken from the exact same place and what koch does in our politics is just as sick scared and derivative markets. it's important as reported to tell people this is what happened categorically in a black-and-white way over the last 20 years and i don't think there's any social issue, more important in anyways than global warming and it's a cost we all have to contend with in the next 30 or 40 years or longer.

>> this is severe, investigative journalism and you're the first to break this. not only do they politicize, maybe globally by how early they did that. i don't think that has ever really been fully understood and how they tried to debunk the theory or the truth. but it really starts with the koch brothers. >> i started reporting this story for a simple reason, a few years ago i was interviewing a senior lobbyist for koch industries and i wanted to know how they do what they do and why they're good at what they do. i asked them, when you were there what woke you up in the morning. what were you working on. and he cannot hesitate, carbon. carbon was a political issue for the operation. so maybe we could take a second to talk about kochland koch inds

and politics. from the 60s charles koch had a very particular view of how society ought to be structure. they were developed -- i read about it so you don't have to. it's an extremely long book. anyway, so what charles koch thinks, the organize society of a market exchange system. it actually has to be the price, human set prices about what they care about. what i really prioritize in my life and the price will reflect that. you need to honor the price.

there must be an accurate price for healthcare for roads, education, you name it. it needs to be only done through free-market, when you try to intervene with government regulations and government programs and when you take money from the winners in the economy and give it to those who are losers, you are distorting the system according to charles koch. he has worked diligently, patiently, breathtakingly in a disciplined fashion since the 1970s. to make american society reflect this field. and he did it by funding think tanks and tried to stay away from corporate lobbying until the 1990s when the investigation came out and he realized we have got to be in washington. for non-washington in a big wa way -- the old saying if not at

the table you're not at the menu. in the 1990s, kochland builds a political apparatus that was rivaled in america. and include several components. i'd like to say when i started reporting this book, i thought i'd be writing the applicable part in writing about super pacs and campaign donations, boy was i wrong, that's a wrong area to focus on. the real action started the day after the election. when you get into the granular business of governing down in the price of the system. that is where kochland has its expertise and it flexes its muscle. koch has built this machine that has the largest registered shops in the united states it's been in office, very nice office. that is awesome.

so you have the corporate lobbying. then you have the consolation of think tanks that charles koch has built unfounded in fund. the american energy alliance, independent energy research. these things create and promote ideas, they seem to the ground in washington, d.c. which is a small town in the mainstream these ideas that charles koch have. then you have a network that charles koch convenes what the year to get more money during the campaign cycle as a political party itself. huge money that can sway politicians. and then you have this activists network of prosperity, boots on the ground, nationwide activists network that can activate people to go knock on doors, and angry

voters they will charter buses from north carolina, west virginia, missouri, ohio and bring them to washington, d.c. to get unloaded and set a three box lunch at these events and take them to targeted congressional offices to give their point of view. the entire machine is a ability to not just sway and influence policy but to write policy and create policy that is in washington, d.c. and one of the ways in the key elements that begin and they have recognized for decades that if the price ever performed carbon emission, regulations are ever put on

carbon emission, if it has dramatically negative consequences for the business going out, imagine having all of these billions of dollars invested in physical oil refineries, pipelines, the trading that you have, the value of all of that it could affect if demand for fossil fuel diminishes even further going out to future decades. so they fought vigorously to not only forestall and delay but truly deliver rail. any activity in regulating greenhouse gases. >> what is clear in your book and solid investigative and journalism as well as your office. even though the koch brothers are massive donors to the republican party, this is not the religious right, these are not social conservatives, this is coming from a libertarian free-market viewpoint. my question for you, do you think in the line of republicans for the best interest of their

business as opposed to political ideology? >> that's a really hard question to answer i have a letter that koch wrote to donors to the libertarian party that he said i'm disgusted with the republican. they are just liberals as the democrats are. so if you have the view of what i just described with no government intervention in the republican being frustrated for decades. fast forward to the year 2005, i interviewed this guy who is one of the very first stage directors for americans for prosperity. he remembered going to the early event when charles koch said the democrats are a lost cause, we will never influence them and never get them to see our agenda. we will focus on republicans. we need to move the republican party to where we see the world. strict libertarianism.

anti-regulation, stop government spending. american for prosperity actually focuses on the firepower if you will on the republican party to transform that and the reason is they see that as only valuable option and david koch ran as a vice president for nominee on the libertarian ticket back in 1980. he went around the country, donated a bunch of money, gave speeches and 3% of the pole. libertarianism does not pull well, i don't think it really ever has. and we realize we need to transfer the republican party to achieve her policy. so i think there has been a strong relationship over decad decades. >> charles and david koch oppose obama in the candidacy of the president trump. what you feel like in social issues beyond the economy, what

you feel that charles fall on the political spectrum? >> on social issues? >> just beyond the self-interest of what they've done with republican party of deregulation and economic route the temporary is a. literature natuntemporary. the process is been in since the 1970s to create a free market utopia. it's consistently frustrated. at the beginning of 2015 charles koch had selected his to five tp candidates including jeb bush, rubio and ted cruz. and then the reality television star comes along and flips of the game table and does so with an agenda that is at odds with the koch agenda. the american agenda of donald

trump does not coincide of what koch wanted at all. dismantling the administrative state as we call it, literally tearing apart the epa for example. i got the transition documents that the trump team took into the epa and its items one, two, three or carbon carbon carbon. that is a christmas list for charles koch. donald trump is shown he is willing to impose tariffs, territory deals in the immigration rhetoric is a massive to the kochland network. they are pushin pushing where tn and help them where they can. and we can talk about this, they had a tremendous influence on the tax reform. >> i want to ask about the culture of koch industries.

something comes up clear in your book. this is not a state fortune 500 company. they put a premium on outside the box thinkers, creativity, entrepreneurs, he does not want company men and women coming in saying here mr. koch. he wanted people to challenge him and he was looking ahead they get about what's happening ten, 20, 30 years. and when they say why are we doing quarterly budget that is for publicly traded companies. just like that was gone. >> is astounding. i should not say this publicly but i'm going to. i had this moment i was looking at the book and was thinking i want to work for koch industries. so everybody is going to hate me on twitter for that one. it is true though. in the following sense, i would get to the negatives and the downsides later. but koch has built an adaptive

entrepreneur organization and the example you pick up is perfect, the corporate budget back in the 1970s because everybody was right the budget and spent three months trying to hit the number. it was total nonsense. it was a waste of time and think how many people are spending so much of the timeframe to do that and they said get rid of it, and we don't need to bother with that. they created a complicated specifically philosophy market-based management that when you hire at koch industries just for the first three or four days at your job in auditorium in the basement learning the philosophy of market-based management. you learn the vocabulary, concepts and directives. and people walk around speaking this language to reach other

that they only understand. when a guy says his point of view, he does not mean his point of view and how you and i mean, they target humility. they don't mean humility, humility means you don't know a lot, when you're treating and covering the downside risk in being ready for negative surprises is not being humble, it's a strategic concept and the corporate philosophy is so coded that charles koch himself has set a total conversion, you're all in on market-based management or all out. that is why it's called copeland. it's like its ow own society. in its own country. i am thinking now about the first time i visited in 2013 i drove up and walked in and they refurbish the corporate headquarters in 2014 and one of

the things they added was a wall that surrounds the north side but had literally a fortress. i've never seen a corporation more insulated in the way that people are like and embracing the corporate culture. at the same time, more and more in the everyday life of more and more people every year as they continue to grow, it's pretty amazing. >> as you look at kochland industries, they are so secretive they have been secretive going back and they've always had that culture. yes you are given unprecedented access in this book, why did they let you in? >> first they said no way so i said okay, and i blew the whistle top.

i spent a miserable week knocking on people's door and said i want to understand this institution in the whole job if you knock on six doors to get six slammed on your face and the seventh door opens up any talk to somebody learn and take the knowledge and you knock on seven more doors and maybe to open now. i think eventually koch industries realized this is going to happen and we would be extremely grateful and extremely glad they did. they told stories that are truly amazing there is a chapter in how koch exploited the fracking boom of crude oil. it will blow your mind how they did that and how they got ahead of that using their analysis. i only knew that because i interviewed the ceo of the oil position. so it was a mixture of them

being more willing to tell their stories and on the other side and extremely stubborn repetitive phone calls and government investigations. in overtime it sending a picture. >> a much bind nature and definition when books like this come out, anytime your profiling someone or corporation falls into two categories. you play this right down the middle and as we spoke yesterday. you're a true journalist. whatever your political sides are interviews of the koch brothers, this place it right down the middle. is that your aspiration for this book? >> yes thank you so much. in my deep conviction, i know nobody really cares what i think about kochland industries. what people really want is good

information and good reporting. they want somebody to go out on their behalf and find out what is going on and describe in a way that is easy to digest so we can walk around with a better understanding of our world. that's why i go and get books every time i'm in town because i want to know these institutions that affect our lives and how they are operating. so the goal of this book is simply described a super important institution and use that as a way to impact what is going on in america. why is our economy structured that we can have ten years of economic growth but many people don't during that decade. i think the job is to describe and figure out what is going on, get an accurate picture, get it

on paper and get into readers hands and they are ultimately going to be the judge, is this an appropriate use of power, do i want to live in a country where the economy structured in this way or not. we have a few more questions than will turn over to audience questions. we have a microphone in the front of the room. i encourage you to come up and will encourage the question. you are selling a lot of copies, you debuted on the new york times bestseller list under nonfiction, the best i ever got was 13000 and was really happy for my book. it's phenomenal. what the reaction from the post below city of kochland >> koch industries, i subscribe to the relationship in february

before the book came out, i sent the public relations department of 260 pages of material to give them a chance to respond. and at the beginning my role models are reporters and this will be important, i want to capture the brilliance, downside, blind spots and they knew that so they had months to respond and they engaged. we had a lot of back-and-forth and there was a productive process, i think everybody would admit is pretty intense at times, there were phone calls and once a book has come out it's been mostly silence. it was proactively trying to get up the story that they say is positive. you see a lot of advertisement from twitter and the positive

side of the koch industry. that is great and they should get the story out there, it's an important story. my job as an independent reporter is to show the good and the bad. and the consequences of their actions that have a negative in the parts of the institution that are admirable and should be studied by people politics of business, again i think your country is short supply of strategic thinking. that is beneficial for anybody to read. earlier i referenced the vitriol in the large portion of the american public shows that maybe not to the extremes of bill mark but shares the viewpoint. if you look at the koch brothers, billionaires, work in the oil industry, try to influence, those three factors are not going to make any american popular. do you think those are factors

that they have been vilified in large sections of the country or beyond that? >> it is completed. it is a climate of permanent hostility. >> he is a journalist on the commentator but fully agrees 100%. in the species that cannot survive with little creatures of nuance and parents and physical thinking, that is one reason why when these people are talked about they are just presented, i cannot say how many people are evil. now listen, this organization has had dramatic defects of public policy in the united states and has done it, the book documents crime and in 1996 they intentionally polluted wetlands near the refineries rather than

shut down the plant and lose money. that was a crime. and it's not helpful to simply paint things in a black-and-white picture. the question is why are they so demonized. i think that people, i think it's very tough in america, there's a deep understanding that the system, we hear all the time it is raked in the statistics on the front page of the wall street journal confirm that the middle class is swamped with debt, we had a decade of economic growth, the gains have been captured by a small population of people, this is creating heat, antagonism, it helps donald trump. it helps describe things that are going on right now. but to deal with the problem you

need to diagnose it accurately. you need to think about it deeply and is not helpful to find villains to use as punching bags. >> this is an audience and i know you guys want to ask questions. i am so happy -- [applause] >> it's kind of like the dance floor nobody wants to be first. this gentleman is first. >> i'm asking this question because they generally don't know. this is a political question. how much influence did they have on local politics in wichita and how much control and influence

in topeka because local politics and pretty familiar with how much influence to have in washington. i'm more curious local and a rear area, how much influence do they have locally. >> i did not report on wichita the city that much. i think their horizon is pretty big. in their huge corporate citizen in wichita and i have not looked at the politics. in kansas, and the effect has been enormous. there's a chapter in their in the book that looks when the wind power in kansas and how aggressive that is. there's a very conservative republican named tom buckley he retired and tells a story of how he came to support alternative energy sources and watch the lobbyist. and i remember to take apart the

growing industry in kansas and of course the vision of the tax structure that koch was involved. >> we will go to you in the near after that i will political question,. >> you're at the right place. the feud between trump and koch do you think that will cause a schism or a civil war between the economic nationalist or the right and the koch that will cause a three-way sprawl within the right-wing of the republican party? is that something that could go beyond koch and trump get into the bowels of the republican

party? >> yes in the way i describe it, right now a lot of the political chapters have been literally in basement. the staff, the heart centered along with the house building where the machinery works, there is a fight going on for control of the steering wheel of the republican party. it is a tense constant back and forth. koch wins when certain federal judges are appointed. in mitch mcconnell lives that through an donald trump is happy to let that happen. koch loses with donald trump imposes massive tariffs. in disrupt the global trade. it is a tug-of-war with a party trying to reach the party, where it goes i have no clue. as we all know donald trump has tremendous support within the republican party.

so as you've seen many, many times it's difficult for politicians to take them on and what is interesting the people who are, the jeff bezos of the world are close to the koch network and they stand up for the policies. i think 2020 will be a huge year in of donald trump went i think they think helping the republican party for generatio generations. >> of 70 questions. the one i want to ask you this, i want to ask you about koch of his own workers and i know that he did not fall far from the tree. his father was one of the activist when kansas passed the right to work in the 1950s. in the antiunion's are from the beginning.

i remember a book that talked about a worker that was killed because of being poisoned in georgia-pacific there is unions and koch i've heard tries to tells workers how to vote. can you comment on the things that you ran across in doing the research in terms of the way he relates to his workers. >> this is so predictable but please read the book. labor unions in the story of labor unions and workers has threaded throughout this book and it played a much more important role the '90s. they have been opposed from the beginning as you said when he took over the company and one of the first things he did was break the union in minnesota. nine-month strike, really hard fight. over the years they have funded right to work efforts, they battle that across the border.

when you ask how he treats his workers, there is people who work at the headquarters in wichita that would jump in front of a bus for charles koch. then you have other workers at the blue-collar manufacturing workers in years reporting a distribution center and its rough picture. i get the labor union going back to compensation and they have not got a raise since 1980s when you adjust for inflation in their working longer harder hours than ever and somebody inside gamy internal safety data that shows workplace accidents happen subtly since at least 2012. the workplace is becoming more dangerous for workers.

these are negative consequences for employees. so the picture is mixed, i truly think it reflects broader trends going on in america today and labor unions have problems and 33% of american labor unions. you see this consequences for middle-class workers, it's a very important part of the story. who. >> can you emphasize the degree to which charles koch sets the tone for the company and has per half-century. he's a man in the 80s and is there a parent of what is likely to happen when charles koch goes to the great oilwell and biscotti? [laughter] what happened to charles koch stepped away.

in chapter 22 of the book is called the education of chase kochland. this is his son who was born in 1977 and when he was born they hung up abandoned in the office and said welcome. that is the burden is guys had his whole life. chase koch has been giving an institution from a young age. and for all of that it's a remarkably levelheaded guy who has forged his own way in the midst of this. to answer your question, i think we'll see an interest in koch industries after charles koch steps away. i think chase will run the corporation. the big question is the future. how much of this explosive growth that we saw as the last 50 years is attributable to an individual in the charles family.

and how much is distributable to what charles koch wants to point to. the institution and really only time will answer the question. >> thank you very much. >> i would be remiss not to say that this is déjà vu all over again. your whole conversation is reminiscent of john d rockefeller and william rockefeller in the history of standard oil company. if you remember john d rockefeller junior had to carry the burden and oversee them part of the standard oil company. what you converse today is the parallels are unprecedented. my question to you is, in light of my statement have you ever

researched the gilded age and some of the robber baron in the rockefeller and so forth. and what parallels are we going through a second gilded age. >> i was nervous when that question started out. i really appreciate. >> he is my hero, what she did for investigative journalism in the early 1900s set the template for what a journalist audited. interviews, documents, it was amazing. and it's the economic history of the united states and we had the gilded age, from 1865 to 1930s.

this was an era of unbridled corporate in america. i call it the capitalist free fire zone. the problem that emerged from that, monopolies, workplace injuries, income inequality is what led to the new deal of the 1930s of fdr. and that is a structure we lived under for 30 or 40 years. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> what we can say, the history -- capitalism returns and were there again in many significant ways. which path to take forward?

and there's not enough time to talk about it. were in a state of political paralysis in america today. bitter dispute, in an environment like that the entities that went time and time again our entrenched incumbents and the corporations. like coo koch industry. where do we go from time and time again. [inaudible] >> let's go to this gentleman and then will have the final two questions. go ahead sir. >> in your opinion, does charles koch not appreciate the magnitude of climate change or is he fully play in the climate denial for profit? >> i am not going to pretend. they would not let me interview charles koch on that topic.

he made comments and knowledge and the reality of climate change which is scientifically interview and it sounds amazing that the controversial statement. but what does he really believe in his heart, does he really think the market solution is going to solve this problem ultimately and i just don't know. it could not interview him about it. it's a huge question, the one thing we can report and we can talk about authoritatively is with the political network has done in the real world consequences of that. they have been unique in aggressive and even passed exxonmobil. [inaudible] >> do think we need to have an attorney general that will indict charles koch and as far as it's becoming more of a

reality if we get like bernie sanders in the white house? [laughter] >> i don't know the answer to that question. there is no body of law that that would happen anytime in the near horizon. but american politics is very unpredictable. >> thank you, sir. these will be the final two questions. recently one of the koch brothers died i read in the news. do you feel that will affect their attitude going forward and if so what way. >> to be blunt, i don't think

it'll affect their attitude, i don't think it'll affect their corporation or political operation in any significant way. but david koch was a partner with charles koch and charles koch was a driving strategic thinker, the driving force behind the corporation and behind the potable network. as personally tragic as it is, we are not going to see a significant change. it's just a moment to watch when charles koch steps away in chase koch takes a larger role. that is whether things will change or not. >> yes, can you briefly comment on the koch brothers efforts to make conservative large political contribution throughout the country to state legislator candidates? >> absolutely. here's a whole i put that, we talk about commodity trading. koch back politics in the way

they have an advantage of knowledge. so koch has built a massive political power in the united states. picture like a pipeline network. you have your state legislators, your court systems, your federal court, local court system in the united states convoy. they examine where it has the most impact in working change policy. and it realized early on, political power and state legislature is an undervalued commodity. you can buy it really cheap. and it might cost $50000 and you gotta hand it to the political network, they have been very forward leaning in the state legislatures donating the candidates and actually writing legislation through an association of the american legislator. so koch was way ahead of other people and realizing the power

and they definitely talk about that. and american policy focusing on the state level. >> thank you, sir. [applause] >> i'm going to ask you a final question and then will be available to chat, sign your books about politics, economics and all the rest. you started this in 2011 as a massive undertaking. you certainly had an idea of who the koch brothers were when you started. what is the biggest revelation for you on the other side of this book? >> the analytical rigor of these people, that i did not expect,

it blew my mind and i talked to people who change my mind who i view the world. these traders are not focused on the shiny object, there focused on an underlying fundamental and as it changed i think about so much in life. what surprised me most was analytical rigor in the deaths of strategic thinking. [applause] >> thank you everyone. >> here is a look at some of the events booktv will be covering this week. on monday look for us at bradley university in peoria illinois or they will discuss the congressional tenure of republican congressman of illinois. on thursday we will be in washington, d.c. for steve vogel will recount the operation goal. for u.s. and british forces on

the east berlin in order to capture kgb intelligence. the same night in new york proper room will talk about his journeys along the us-mexico border. most of these events are open to the public. if you're in attendance to computer antagonist booktv on twitter, facebook or instagram. >> booktv attended an event where joshua offered a history and critique of socialism. here is a person. >> the term socialism was i declining in the 1830s by the followers of a small group of thinkers of british and french who were not out to overthrow government but had ideas of a better society of sharing and

also had an idea that the way to get there was to demonstrate the validity of their ideas. and they created, their followers created over a period through the mid-1800s 40 - 50 of these experimental communities mostly in the united states even though these visionaries were europeans. why in the united states, it was easy to get land and because the social mores were more fluent and in fact their ideas were taken tremendously seriously. and perhaps the most important one was robert knowing and he announced he is coming to the united states to create a community that would demonstrate the validity of his ideas and he was taken tremendously

seriously. and on his way he commissioned an architect to produce a scale model of the ideal socialist community that he envision and was put on display in the white house for several months in conjunction with his arrival and then a joint session of congress was convened to hear him presented ideas and not only did the congressman senators sit to listen but the members of the supreme court and outgoing president monro and jq adams all spent hours listening to this presentation. in the community he set up was called new harmony and it was in indiana and almost instantly collapsed. and what happened at new harmony

turned out to be exactly representative of the whole group of the experiment, historians say their median lifespan was two years before they went their way of new harmony. it might have been an alternative imaginary history that the whole idea of socialism would've ended right there. they tried that and it did not work. but then they were given a much more powerful life by this remarkable tagteam of political activists and philosophers of great power. they pulled off which is one of the great intellectual times of all time. >> you can visit our website booktv.org to watch the rest of

the program. search for joshua or the title of his book, heaven on earth using the search box at the top of the page. >> every year booktv covers festivals around the country. here is a look at some of the events on the calendar. on october 10 and the 12 the book festival at george mason university in fairfax virginia. the same we can turn in for the live coverage of the southern festival of books in nashville. on october 19 and 20th, the boston book festival will welcome over 300 speakers and we will be live from the wisconsin book festival in madison which anticipates over 15000 people in attendance. and later in the month look for us in austi often at the festivl there. for more information and to watch our previous festival click the book fair tab festival tab booktv.org.

>> book tv is television for serious readers. all weekend, every weekend. join us again next saturday beginning at 8:00 a.m. eastern for the best of nonfiction books. . . .