thomas and jefferson sick him i cannot live that went out books. >> we also show our viewers but lee edwards is currently readi reading. the last homily and george wilson conservative sensibility. that's his latest book. george's sentiment of a great christmas and the poking her and walter the divine plan. on a depth. the edwards is in our guest this month on in-depth and we appreciate your time. >> thanks much peter, great to be here. >> the new cspan2 online store now has book tv products. go to cspan2 start on hard to check them out. see the snow, for book tv and all of the cspan2 products. next, is book tv monthly in-depth program with this

telling author naomi klein. her books on economics and public policy include the shock doctrine, and the recently on fire. the burning case for green new deal. >> thank you for joining us and in the studios in new york. but tv we are in manhattan. we are running in marketing this business. let me begin with your book no logo, when did you learn about nike. microsoft and starbucks and branding. >> it is great to be with you and to have this time. so when i was writing the logo, became out at the very beginning of 2000 so it is almost exactly 20 years old. and i when i researching, four years before that, it was a period where i was changing the corporate world. you had the first kind of full-blown lifestyle brands.

an idea that we all take for granted now but these were companies that for the first time, were declaring that their business model was not sell products but to sell ideas, lifestyle says of belonging and that they could then extend into kind of selff closed granted cocoons. the sort of everything as long as it was printed with this logo. so nike was really the first on. to do this. they didn't ever own factories. and this was an amazing when i learned, no logo, that there was a relationship between the aggressive kind marketing it was constantly sort of trolling youth culture to find the most cutting-edge ideas to get ads into places they never had aner made it through before like schools and to co- brand with every like music festivals and so on. there was an inverse

relationshipse between that aggressive marketing and the kind of good jobs they were offering in the economy. because the way these companies are bringing up money to spend this much more kind of aggressive lifestyle marketing was by divesting from their factories. from the ideas that they should producers atey all. so nike paved the way in the says never on their factories the first place. they made their running shoes through web of contractors and subcontractors who they painted against one another so who could provide their shoes for the lowest price this was such a profitable businessuc model, and all of the competitors started tilting their factories and never reopening n it. that was the key thing. they never reopen the factories. they often talked about factories moving from north america to mexico orut china or vietnam and in fact it wasn't just that they were moving locations they were never owning

the factories and they didn't see themselves as producers. i think it's intimately related to the india serialization in the precariousness of work. it was sort take it for granted today. >> as you.out nike in particular getting a lot of criticism of your customers. >> at the time, because it was sort of new and this was, it was still in america that remembered the kind of manufacturing model where you understood that the product you know buying the car you know buying, you know where it was made and he understoodho that this was economic anger for that community and that the idea that the people making the cars should have enough money to buy the cars. so it was culturally shocking for people to discover that these companies like nike or disney who were spending so much money putting out images of

themselves that were very progressive or in the case of disney's case, very family-friendly, they pulled back the curtain and say wait a minute, in some cases children are people just a little bit out of being children, people in their early 20s, for making these products on a really abusive conditions. so when wasas exposed, it was a scandal. twenty years later, i thinknk people take it for granted that all the products in our live are made on conditions that are pretty dubious. electronic factories in china that have suicide notes to catch people when they commit suicide because they're so desperate on the job. i think it's one of the things to think about. i think about what is changed is the logo, the sense of shock that i was sort of tracking. i was thinking zero my god, i can't believe these nike running shoes are made by a company in

indonesia. or adar sweeping out dormitories not getting paid for their overtime are having to be in bottles underneath there showing machines. all of thesehe were coming out d they were gentlemanly scandals. and movements responding to them. people seem so shocked and outraged about this. it is almost like a joke on late-night television. >> publicly examples in the book, starbucks. and how a coffee shop open up and inspired by chuck starbucks was trying tota essentially run away from the starbucks brand. >> i think it was an example from the ten year anniversary edition of the loop l no logo where in the original edition, they came out in 2000, i had a fair pit of then relatively new company starbucks told us that the brand were they third-place, on our work and play together

using thereally disperse of the public fear almost like a townn square. it is interesting that this was happening in the '90s if you have this very aggressive privatization of the public fear and so corporations have come so long and say well we are a pseudo- town. which is what facebook is using and doing out. a digital town square. the '90s at starbucks. and when i wrote an introduction to the tenth anniversary, they just opened up a coffee shop in seattle that was completely. he didn't see the logo anywhere which seem to be the marker of how far they had fallen and assessed in order to recapture any sense of newness the head and brand themselves. >> was sort of a political spear you talk about president obama

in one of the questions was did he live upe to his brand. did he? >> it was early in the obama years when i wrote that, and i think there was always something a little bit nike about the obama brand. it was just big enough and hard enough to pin him down to a clear political platform. it's another interesting measure where we are now because i think if you look at the democratic primaries right now, i think there is more of an expectation and candidates have a really specific and fully formed platform. economic platform labor policy platform and environmental policy platform. i think about the obama campaign, in 2008, which i was writing about. i was pretty vague and pretty much like i'm going to recapture a sense ofsm optimism and you ae

not going to be ashamed of america. people are tired from eight years of bush and pro change and feeling good. as i write about that. the first political campaign used the same tools that these corporate lifestyle brands have been using. to sort of pay themselves an aura of progressivism. so the question did obama live up to it. it's a complicated question and says that was never specific so it's hard to say both of he lived up to it or not. there wasn't that much there but we need was promising in all though didn't specifically promise and avoid a revised, take on wall street and i think there was a huge amount of disappointment. generally happen. people hope there was really going to be a real real reinvestment and small businesses and maybe more factory jobs. we are very disappointed in

that. i think it's part of a global phenomenon where the liberal politicians come to power with a sort of having your progressivism and change. that the economy continues c to make people feel excluded and disempowered and more precarious and more insecure. ss estate were the kind of populism that we are seeing worldwide. obviously also there's the specific factors relating to obama is the black president racial backlash in the united states but is also important to remember that there is a global phenomenon of these right-wing populism that we see everywhere. >> you can join us on twitter about tv and her guests are on tv nate naomi klein and also phone calls at 2027488200. if you live in central time zones.

your teaching at the university. howdy frame this in a classroom. in terms of your book the original book then in the ten year anniversary edition. >> actually teaching course all these corporate south. it looks at the integration of the human and the corporation. corporations try to act more like a few months which is the original brands were all about that. but he accorded sort of comforting face like uncle ben's brent jemima for much of it racialized and talking about nostalgia about plantation live. do we look at the racial history of branding. and then wearing but no logo and, remember this is written in the late 1990s. this then completely newel idea that a few months like everyday a few months, not celebrities need it to become their own brands in order to succeed in

this newly precarious job environment. we can expect job security the way to get to head is to find your interbrand and projected onto the world. this was after we seen celebrities do this in the book i talk a lot about michael jordan. someme brand. now we look atia what's happenig with social media. there was a pretty notional idea 20 years ago, that the idea anybody could be on brent because anybody doesn't have the money to take out advertisements and actually do the work that projecting an image of oneself. but today, because of social media b everybody who has compur access, has a capacity to market themselves to market an idea of themselves to think about what is my brand which is very different about who am i. we aren't packing and have a

wonderful group of students and first of all we talk about how even though they have grown up with this idea, it is relatively newti idea. it was not always the case. you have been looked at if you are mad, 30 years ago, the 15 old kid, not what you want to be me grow up but what is your brand. [laughter] we try to make visible some of the things he take for granted. and then really think about what is the main to have to separate yourself from the idea of yourself. to have the distancing. and was that do to friendship and relationships and social movements is been fascinating to unpack this with them because of course they know a lot more about social media than i do. they are teaching me all the time this sort of latest phase of this or instantly connected to the fact that we are living

our lives online instead of constant performance ofve our personal brand. the tech industry sees that data as the new oil, often repeated. so they are mining ourselves and all the intimation that we are sharing. for their business model that we are not getting any part of. we are not paid for the data that we arere providing for fre. so we are looking at all of these data mining, surveillance capitalism, it is interesting, and once again see how much is changed since i wrote that book. it's now. >> newest book agree new deal. in terms of the original new deal, you write a lot about how that essentiallyut transforms te country in the world. >> i think there is inspiration

to be taken in the original new deal and also very important warnings arid to you from that era because so monday people are excluded from the seat of protection on fdr his new deal. monday african-american workers were excluded. domestic workers and women, agricultural workers were excluded, and there was systemic determination and segregation in monday of the programs. it is also true that the united states transformed itself and its speed and scale that is comparable to the kind of speed and scale change that we need to embrace. if were going to lower emission in line with what scientists are telling us. a year ago, the panel on climate change, the foremost gathering of scientific experts, would advise governments on this state of climate science. issued a report a year ago

staying you need to cut global emissions in half in the mere 12 years, which is now 11 years. and they said this was a a coat with summary of the report. this would in virtually every aspect of vice that energy transportation agriculture building construction, so there aren't, monday points in history we do can c say this is the time we saw that kind of field transformation. what is when you're in the second world war we do had americans planting victory gardens and getting 40 percent of their profits from the spartans we saw factories transfer themselves very rapidly. then the new deal is another area which is less top-down and which is why it's useful historical precedent for us to look at. he's don't think we want government telling everybody what they shouldyo do. i think we should worry about that kind of climate so when

you're in the new deal era he saw it on rule of america electrified. more than 10 billion americans directly employed and renaissance publicly funded arts. all kinds of infrastructure schools and libraries of reservoirs. much of american publich infrastructure today, his legacy of this. another part is quite relevant to even agree new deal is that fdr his conservation corps was probably the most popular of the new deal programs. it's a a reminder the new deal s not only responding to an economic crisis. it is also reporting to an ecological crisis because of the decibel crisis of d4 station. the sick more than 2 million for young people, both from cities to hundreds ofr camps in rural parts of the united states they did things like 2.3 billion

trees, the planet them. more than half of the trees are planted. that kind of skill is really important. it's also the kind of thing that we need to do all carbon out of the atmosphere in the face of the climate crisis. >> you wrote part of what makes climate change so very difficult for monday of us, so we live in a culture of the perpetual presence. deliberately separates itself from the past and created us in the future, we are shaping with our actions. >> a lot of them in the book, trying to make visible the economic system and the relatively new economic and social models board of the particular kind of capitalism since the reagan era which is been all about my mutations the regulations and generating individual consumers equating

shopping with democracy in the goodbye. let us produce an extremely accelerated culture which then people.to and say well it's just human nature. we can't deal with a crisis like climate change because clearly we are just is it too selfish and is it too individualistic and think to short-term and this requires us to have a longer timeframe and requires us to put the collective good ahead as usmething that you might just want right now to satisfy an urge.dual so there's been a lot of written and is make this human nature argument about why he will never respond to this crisis. i find what i'm talking about what we need to do in the pages crisis. i find that the biggest obstacle that we areha up against it's nt climate change denial which is definitely on the way. and so the lack of technology or

an understanding of what needs to be done, it is really the sense of dume that we as human beings are incapable of doing the things that are necessary. that is why think it is important to draw these historical precedents that even if they're not exactly the kind of thing we need to do now, they do show that there are different ways of being human and in lifespan of people, alive today, people were able to think longer term and were able to collective good ahead of their individual desires. and they are people indigenous people in north america who teach their children to think seven generations into the future and seven generations in the past. so what i'm trying to do i guess as proselytized the source of nature.to human

we hear a lot of it. actually that's equating a particular relatively recent forum of deregulated consumer capitalism with thesm idea whatt means to be human. we can't change the laws of nature, they can change the system that we a few months to create ourselves. if they are threatening live on earth. in fact me to do that. nothing is easy, just say it is possible. in mary seven years old, she went out picking yesterday. a few months are a lot. for those who don't know naomi klein,om and seven minutes tell your live story. in it inn a minute or two. >> i was born in canada, montréal. my parents are american. my parents were peace activists. inhe the 1960s and my father did not want to go to vietnam.

and he had to choose between jail in canada. like monday of his peers, he chose canada. we moved to montréal. later move back to the united states for ars few years. when i was very. before i was five years old and they decided that they like canada ever. i sometimes say we left because of the work that we stayed for the universal public healthcare. [laughter], mother is the documentary. she worked for the national board of canada. as the first women, she made films really for the feminist movement. grow upor with legal parents. my father worked in the canadian healthcare system and involved in things like midwives in bringing them into the hospitals big advocate for natural childbirth. retired.

i grew up in really radical, i have friends who really had like serious radical parents. they were homeschooled and their parents really walked the talk. i grew upd between worlds. with their values i suppose but going to regular schools in the 1980s, so i sort of felt very pulled between the cultural the 1980s which was very shiny and appealing to me and my home live where my parents weree seeing what you want to hang out with your friends at the mall. why would you ever want to go to the mall. maybe that's why i've wrote a book in my 20s. >> like you've been patient, from florida welcome to the conversation.rl >> hi. it is nice to speak with you. my main problem with the whole thing is the amount of energy that is required is impossible

and the technologies to start going to be there. this is the pie-in-the-sky pie-in-the-sky dive boat thinking. we need to fossil fuels and there is no doubt about it. in the foreseeable future. the other thing was just the environment itself how do you explain like the little i.c.e. edge. 10000 years . - >> can made it through. thanks for your question. i would urge you to look at the mark and more jacobson at stanford university. he is the professor of engineering is the big team and really specifically about how in fact it is possible that existing technologies to get 20s very rapidly for electricity, and transportation afterwards,

in line with what i scientists e telling us what wee need to do. huge breakthroughs in battery storage and price breakthroughs as well. cost of renewable energy. i would actually disagree, i i think it is possible. like i said, i'm not staying it is easy, but i think the barriers are much more political than they are technological. that's precisely what the panel on climate change, when they set having global emissions in 12 years. in that report. on a stress that that's a report that grew in 6000 sources up here reviewed. does not just like a one-off paper. it was co-authored by almost a hundred authors and reviewers. it is a state-of-the-art science. they said actually we can meet these targets with existing technology. the barrier iss political.

in terms of the reason for the little i.c.e. edge, there is a few factors. one is the high-altitude, volcano that into the sun, this was sometimes in my opinion type quite frightening would be geo- engineers talking about how one way we can deal with climate disruption is by imitating a hall high atmosphere. in reflecting more of the sun his rays away from earth. that is one of the main reasons behind the little ice age. another reason that i do talk about in the book, is this fall is a genocide against religion of people in the americas. there's been some new science that looks at how this huge loss of live, melon monday millions of people in americas, led to a brief for station and vegetation and that was part of it as well.

>> will go to norwalk connecticut steve. >> hi. good morning naomi. can you hear me. >> as we suree can. >> first, let's eliminate batteries. make electric power pointer battery, using fossil fuel, you don't eliminate one molecule of co2. so i can't believe you wouldn't know that. you evidently don't knoww that. i cannot believe that all of the senators running for president, never mentioned hydrogen fuel cells. which happens to be the only remedy to eliminate the co2.

there is no co2 we do use hydrogen fuel cells. it is that simple so i sick you messages on yourve facebook, and out numerousnu times and don't know if you actually read this, butss you just dismiss it or wht you do but anyway, you never mentioned hydrogen fuel cells. none of the candidates mentioned hydrogen fuel cells. it is the only remedy. i'm going to have a meeting with out king jeffries, soon i hope. to discuss this. in the title of my book is reparations. because what i'm suggesting is that we need to be over a million people necessary to do the work to completely change from fossil fuel electric power

to hydrogen fuel cell electric power - >> women get a response you for your question. >> i think the color it's not i can take a response from any of the candidates are why this idea it's not taken seriously because it is absolutely true that renewable power with battery powerle does radically reduce emissions. which it's not to say that there aren't environmental costs. to any technology. it would be including local environmental impacts of mining for rare metals or for solar power and wind power. which is why the book i talked about thefa fact that we can't think of this simply but flipping a switch from fossil fuels to renewables and everything else be exactly the same. we do have a problem a real

problem of overconsumption particular overconsumption with a sort of disposable mindset. in the wealthyhy world. there is going to have to be, we are quite have toin look at the fairytale of infinite growth. we, i am talking about the 20 percent wealthiest people on the planet are responsible for 70 percent of emissions. we are going to have to consume less. it is to me that we are going to live in misery, right if you live in a loophole european. generally recognized as one of the world his leading animation reduction experts. and this is why in the context of the green new deal, is so important to be looking at the areas where we can afford to expand. like healthcare and childcare in the arts. areas that are ready low carbon can be made even more low

carbon. so there are going to have to be some live style changes for people who are over consuming doesn't mean it's all constructions. >> sixteen years old from sweden, why do you think her voice and so monday has resonated. >> i think is the complicated question to be honest with you. i think there are monday voices as well as brenda's should be resonating who has trying be to get the world his attention for a very long time. i'm going to climate summits for about a decade now, and there's been incredibly powerful world voices coming from the islands, and incredible speech made at the united nations made in 2014 by a woman from theat marshall islands, young woman named kathy jenner who wrote of how one to her nine month old baby and she it to the assemble country

representatives and it was, and incredible speech that should've gone viral. so i think in.this out, there been other moments a few years later when tyson, if the philippines at the very moment that there was a human summit happening on climate change right and a representative from the philippines, didn't know both of his family was safe or not. he broke down crying in front of the entire assembly. that should've gone to spiral as any of brenda's speeches to be perfectly honest, i think there is an issue around the fact that she is the white girl from sweden who and that is part of why her voice breaks through when other voices who are really on the front lines of this crisis who are living it. and for whom itli feels absoluty

have been ignored. last thing greta is absolutely remarkable young woman. i have soo much respect for her. i think she is the prophetic voice. these other voices that i've spoken about before, like kathy jenner, are as well. . . >> everybody is performing a version of himself and interested in being famous and promotingor themselves. gutter cannot be less interested in this. she is a 100% focused on the s signs. and she has talked about having

been diagnosed with as burgers, she said i'm not interested in your social games. as something on the autism spectrum. there is something about how uninterested she is in our opinion of her that makes her a very trusted messenger for a lot of people. obviously she faces attacks. it is because she is part of ldilding a global movement that is growing with exponential speed. there were several million people who a participated in the world climate strikes over an eight day . . . that is unprecedented in the history of the planet. greta is part of an amazing movement and should be the first person this is not about me, it's a movement of young people coming together. >> you say fossil fuels are not

the sole driver of climate change, they are the biggest and you write in incremental approach will not work, my question, can we afford the green new deal? the price tag is in the billions ofic dollars. >> agriculture, another major driver, so can we afford it, there have been studies of what it would cost to stay on the road we are on and not try to avert at catastrophic ris level. we have worn the planet by 1 degree celsius. we continue with business as usual and that means doing what were doing now which is nothing in making the problem worse and that's what donald trump has been doing and result. that leads to somewhere to four to 6 degrees. that is not compatible with anything you would describe as

organized f civilization, it wod threaten every coastal city. >> over what timed period? >> well before the end of the century. we need to recognize that a lot of the estimates of when things will get really serious have the speed ind which things unravel. we were not expecting to lose arctic cis as rapidly as we are. and let's remember september is the hottest september on record, july was the hottest month ever recorded june was the hottest ever recorded, it's happening fast. and so you ask overtime. , there are different estimates. i would say in the time period of children alive on this planet we would seek catastrophic levels under business as usual model, when you start costing out what it would mean to lose new york city or shanghai, there

literally is not enough money on the pentecost about. i can make an argument that it's a bargain to invest in a new deal which is expensive but compared to what we would pay later is much cheaper. there is something morally reprehensible about making a financial argument. we're talking about hundreds of millions of lives that would be lost if we dot not embrace the speed of change that is required so yes it is expensive, it is also a moral imperative and doing nothing is even more expensive. >> all from kentucky yours nex. >> good afternoon. my question is about nuclear energy.

i think any serious person who looks at replacing fossil fuel, the majority realizes the only possible way to do it would be to go with generation three or generation for nuclear power plants, i'm just wondering -- >> where are they, where are the generations for nuclear plants? >> i think the fuller's are developed under developmental. >> they are not out there is a point. it's a national technology. that's why have not killed anyone. >> we have a lot of nuclear plants. >> you are talking about nexgen nuclear. and often in these discussions, a notional and future form of nuclear is held up as what will be built but what is being proposed is the same nuclear technology that it does have ngishigh risks.

-- i will refer people once again to mark stanford's research which is very clear about the fact that we can do this with renewable energy, and there are many benefits of doing it with renewables over nuclear. including the fact that nuclear is a lot more expensive, it is prone to capitalism and corruption, we see this again and again, and what i think is great about renewable energy, it lends itself to a more decentralized form of ownership. rather than having a novelistic player in the energy sector as we do today weather in fossil fuels or nuclear, we have an amazing opportunity to have a much more democratically controlled energy grid which is built around the fact that the air in the sun is everywhere and we can have microgrids, community control, energy cooperative, in the revenues

from this can stay in communities to pay for other services and we can kill two birds with one stone where we have a fair economy, more resources as well as getting ourselves to 0 emission. >> they stand for the question, i think that is your smallest quote literally. who are the disasters -- >> so the book that? i wrote right after, it took me a long time to research, the shock doctrine. in the book, i make an argument that we have seen in the aftermath of economic shocks and large natural disasters, a certain theory of political change which i call the shock doctrine, using the sense of

panic and public that necessarily follows a war or completely destabilizing economic crisis or large-scale hurricane to push through policies that you would not be able to push their under normal circumstances because people are focused on their daily emergencies. we are also seeing infrastructure of peopleto movig in who want to make quick cash in the aftermath of disasters. and so the battle for paradise is a case study of the shock doctrine and aftermath in which before it made landfall we were hearing talk of how this is a great opportunity to prioritize puerto rico energy grid and the atland was already a site of an economic crisis which was being used to impose all authoritari

authoritarian. this was a way that was used during the debt crisis before hurricane maria hit to trac attt high networking individuals. in particularly attracted to the financial sector in the crypto currency sector because they did not have to pay all cans of taxes, that they would've had to pay and the mainland. vethe capitalist for paradise, a lot are bitcoin entrepreneurs who relocated puerto rico and aftermath to take advantage of cheap real estate and the fact that there crypto currency gains would not be taxed when they converted to regular currency if they did so in puerto rico. >> from the shock doctrine, explain what is the recovery. >> so this has been the question i've asked myself since i wrote the shock doctrine, this is a clear strategy that we have seen again andai again, by wealthy

players and aftermath of disasters. i began the shock doctrine with hurricane katrina which is when i first started writing about climate change. a decade and a half ago. when i was in new orleans, it was still partially under water but there was already real estate speculators talking about what an opportunity it was to get rid of public housing projects to build condominiums. a lot of that happened and aftermath. it was used by educationalul entrepreneurs who wanted to change public schools into whcharter schools, and pretty sn new orleans had the private charter heavy school system in the united states. urso this raised a lot of what s the alternative to disaster capitalism,le how can communiti, democratically respond to crises that in so many cases for the

needs for deep solution to put forward the vision for how their communities should be rebuilt in the face of these disasters that will improve lives and make less disaster prone. so that is what i mean by collective response to disasters. we have seen that inli puerto rico, quite powerfully where that little book, that follows the royalty in advance going to a coalition of groups in puerto rico who came together in the aftermath of hurricane maria in order to put in advance the people's platform for how puerto rico should be rebuilt and respond to the vulnerability to climate disruption. that includes no longer being dependent on overwhelmingly on imported food from florida. very fertile island, they went to practice agriculture so if there is a storm it knocks out

the poor people are not starving. that also requires land redistribution of puerto rico because so much land in this very moment been soldrvre off to tourist developers and other private interests. they also want, like we talked about decentralized renewable energy owned by communities. so there's various proposals for that. that is the thing i mean, on agy large scale it would mean a green new deal, a way of responding to our collective climate crisis in a way that battles systemic equalities on every front. >> let's go to edward, new jersey. your next unceasing tubal tv. >> engine very well. it seems like you covered what i wanted to talk about. an advocate for the future and the disconnect about the social energy that goes into invading iraq on one grainy little picture. and being scared of all the

stupid things -- how do we cut to the corporate noise of the things they're telling us we should be afraid of when it's a one and 53000 chance that you could be killed by terrorists but yet we cannot be scared of the loss of biodiversity or the other things that you are covering. thank you for your work. >> thank you. it's a great way of putting it. it seems possible to harness huge amounts of public wealth if it's to wage a war and as the caller mentioned, evidence that was later disproven and yet we are demanding more from, reports with resources from 6000 articles is seen as not good enough for us, were still waiting for the evidence to come in. i think it has to do with who the climate crisis threatens. h

the fact -- if we were to take the science hearsay, whether loss of biodiversity or climate disruption in their certainly interrelated. it would mean a lot of wealthy people, wealthy interest in the goal economy would have to make very serious sacrifices which is why they want to change the subject to it being about whether or not you can eat hamburgers or not, this is really about the fact that exxonmobil is very threatened, shall oil is very threatened, cargo is threatened, the most powerful businesses in the global economy who have a business model that is reliant on the continued extraction and exportation of fossil fuels, there are other ways ofnt organizing a business but not as profitable. it's not as profitable to have a solar business than an oil and gas business. so we have had deliberate spread of misinformation on the airways

and in print we had the fossilnt fuel companies funding the disinformation campaigns i would argue that we heard evidence of on the show. and it has floatedss down, we he lost wonders we will never get back because of it. and now we are in a moment where regular people are declaring an emergency from below. that is what we are seeing with the climate strikes and what greta started with her loan act just a little bit more than a year ago. at this point she was 15 years old, she learned about climate change and watched a lot of documentaries and learned about biodiversity, all these crises and looked around and this is by her own telling, thought the world did not make sense, she said if this was true when everybody be talking about all

the time, and for destabilizing our one and only home, when it politicians be focused on this all the time, the front page of the every newspaper, everywhere she looked people were talking about anything else. and nash are even though we have an apartment in the climate coverage, so she decided to declare her own emergency. as a student, the one thing she had power over, the one way she could disrupt business as usual was to not do the one thing every kid is expected to do which is go to school, shetl stopped going on fridays, she held her loan signed and more people came and people in different citiese including new york city started having their own climate strikes. and within a short period, she started in august of last year end by september of this year, a little bit more than a year

there were 7 million people participated. these are people saying we're not going to wait for politicians to recognize this as an emergency. we will put pressure on politicians to follow. some governments have declared a state of a climate emergency. whether they are following with the policies that that would demand. we will see. it is redrawn the map in the democratic primaries, the scale of change that is being debated within the democratic party. it's nothing what we were arlking about a few years ago, now we are talking about who is spending how many trillions of dollars on their green new deal pain. and how many jobs can be created

and how quickly we can move and whose targets are more ambitious. this is not because the politicians have seen the light, it's because there's a social movement putting pressure on the politicians to up their game. >> and he gotcico animated, lete turn to you, how do you approach writing a book, what is the naomi klein style? >> so, there were seven years between my first three books, and each of those i think of as a phd thesis in its own writing even though i did not get a phd. i was lucky enough with my first book, and the fact that it sold the way it did put me in a privileged position as an author where i was able

going to resist it as they did in france with the yellow vest movement. but yes, i'm focused on 20/20 i have to say and i think it's going to be a little while before i feel like i can just hide myself away in the forest, much as i'm drawn to it. >>. >> host: let's go to john joining us from putnam valley new york, you're on with naomi klein. >> caller: thank you. thank you very much naomi for your work. it's only going to get tougher, isn't it? a lot. i'm mostly calling just to, the answers are in nature and

with like the solar stuff, the other gentleman mentioned it's not going to be enough but you just fell off the bible based on 40 percent, not 90 percent like we have now which is a waste of material. 99 percent is worth it. until things are going to pick up but the main thing i want to mention is a book calledhidden nature . it's a startling insights victor strasburg, written by alec bartholomew. and he developed the implosion motor and was captured by the nazis and the people that he workedwith built his crafts and everything but it's based on the stream . when you straighten out the stream you kill it. now the stream goes around the corner and there are

horses on the inside and outside of the curve and there's six other little boys, one side of the stream is in the negative and the other side is the positive . and as for the electronics, the act's in that water that keeps nutrition and everything, the micro stuff that would not be normally bought client and it's not just moving into the water , it's the fact that the water is actually alive with energy. i think there's a lot of answers in nature but you have to step back and realize i'm a 73-year-old, veteran. i was in vietnam. only took me 25 years to get ptsd which is pretty much just a negative response to a reflex. >> host: let me jump in, we'll get a response and i also want to welcome our listeners on c-span radio.

>> guest: i think it's an important observation and i think we are seeing many solutions coming from paying attention to the natural world. kind of mimicry of nature. which is a paradigm shift from the kind of dominant that seeing our rule as being to dominate the natural world . to bend it to our will. and that brute force engineering behind the damning of great rivers and really the fossil fuel economy that we could dig up life, burn it and send waste up into the atmosphere and tell ourselves that we had conquered nature.was the whole promise of fossil fuel age. you are no longer tossed around by mother nature. you are the boss area if you read the marketing materials of the first commercial steam

engines it was all about you are now the boss. you don't have to wait for the winds that blow to sail your ship. you can sale them whenever you want. you don't have to build your factories next to rushing rivers because factories used to be powered by water wheels. build your factories wherever you want. the idea was you had your portable climate and you could control the temperature, you could master the winds and waves and what climate change tells us is maybe where not the boss after all because all of the carbon that we admitted over the hundreds of years of the industrial age have accumulating in the atmosphere and now comes the response and the response takes the form of storms like hurricane dorian that part over the bahamas. absolutely unprecedented for a storm to behave that way. and whether it's the storms,

whether it's fires, whether it's the heat wave, we are up against forces that are far more powerful than us and i think the message of this is everything in nature, every action as a reaction and fossil fuels allow us to tell ourselves a fairytale about the fact that we know where at thedrivers seat dominating there would be no downside to this . i think the beauty of renewable energy is it putsus back in dialogue with the natural world . and it's about suppressing the power of nature, not just bending it and breaking it. >> host: every month we go in depth with a leading author, our guest this week is naomi klein. join us on twitter tv or book tv, where can people follow you? >> guest: we're on twitter at

naomiaklein. i don't really do any other social media. i sometimes say on instagram that i'm on twitter. i don't need that now the rhythm and the. >> host: let's go to danny, go ahead. >> caller: have you noticed that there's an activist group over in the uk that was preemptively rated, apparently they had a warehouse with signs and what have you and the authorities to prevent them from doing a protest rated them over the weekend. now, i'm a republican. i'm a conservative. this bothers me because this is like going into a church and taking my antiabortion signs. and it's chilling. i know it'shappening in england . there are resting them for conspiracy to commit a public nuisance. have you got any comment on

that? >> guest: thank you for that and i appreciate your nonpartisan solidarity. the group is called extinction rebellion and they're a fairly young group, they haven't been around that long but they engage in nine violent civil disobedience to try to express that we are in a climate emergency. demanding that climate declare a climateemergency , and they have shut down bridges and roads but they are a completely nonviolent group and they were planning on taking off or are planning on kicking off a new wave of civil disobedience october 7 so this was a redemptive raid that i agree is a violation of their rights to peaceful assembly. >> 11 years ago the new yorker had a profile of you and it says the following.

naomi klein is not interested in making the left part of the mainstream. instead she wants to convince the leftthat it does not need the mainstream. that was 11 years ago area all relevant today ? >> guest: i don't know that i agreed with it then. i think that she also wrote that michael was to move the center and i think that's more accurate. it depends on how you define the mainstream. if you define the mainstream as this punditocracy and these serious opinion makers who actively police the parameters of acceptable discourse, i have been telling people that we should ignore them. and we should allow ourselves to be guided by what we know is right, what we know is needed.

and that we need to move where the center is and i think that that's actually been happening in the 11 years as we look at what's happening in the democratic primaries once again and the range of policies under discussion and the sorts of things bernie sanders and elizabeth warren are putting on the table. they would have beenuntenable 10 years ago so there's been a transformation . i never tell people they shouldn't worry about the mainstream because that would be where most people are but i think i've been consistent about ignoring the punditocracy that tells you what you can and can't say. >> host: i won't create any sibling rivalry but i'd point out that your brother is the fair print statement w. my brother was kind of like the young hyman stryker. in high school but he was focused on nuclear war. he was part of the anti- nuclear

movement with my parents were part of and he started it the student proclaims in high school.p they was part of his generation, it would wake up in the middle of the night terrified of nuclear war. his still terrifying and i r ess, for me and my family dynamics, is dimly had the good activists and covered. i was much more social kid. i just was w interested in my friends and having fun in a dead start, it wasn't that i didn't care about fairness. i didn't care about politics. and care about organized politics but i was really concerned with racism and sexism and things that were that i perceived to be unfair. but it wasn't to join her. i groups and things like that. and it's probably why became a

writer. >> will leave it there. doug fromoi wyoming. >> weird but tv, did she hear him argue that the economic crisis of the great depression was caused by government interference in america market economy. both of herer thoughts about arguments, and the mix of the robert behrens newob look. the rise of big business in america. thank you very much. >> thank you doug. suzette i would not offend anybody that i didn't see that. i can't respond directly i'm not familiar with his work but i am familiar with that argument. that were created the great crash of 1929, was not the d

regulation markets. but virtually every videoeo slep the theory of these small arguments that the problem was deregulation. with governmentm intervention n intervention. of documents by that. i think the breaking of the banks, on fdr was a big part in stabilizing the financial sector so i don't agree with that. >> no it's not enough and you begin with oneow word and you begin with that would work on the election of donald trump. shock. >> no it's not enough. must be how i write books, and i was on the left was definitely not following that pattern of taking years and years and yea years. i wrote it in a pit of fever over i think seven months. after trump selection.

i wrote it because i was really terrified having researched the ways in which shock for my . book the shock doctrine. create this sort of state of exception in state and distraction where it becomes possible get away with off-site kinds of things precisely because everybody is sort of trying to get there footing. that word shock was used really again and again after the election. because it shocked so monday of us write. despite all of the polls and so monday of the expectations, it came as such a a huge shock and such an untraditional political player. i was really worried that this idea of trumpets being this kind of bolt on the blue. if we accepted thatth narrativef him is sort of a interruption,

of everything that was understood about america, was stressed that this it's not everybody's reaction. there were a lot of particularly african-americans in the country a lot of women who said actually, not surprised. my lived experience in this country, would tell me and indicate to me that there's a prettydi big appetite for the st of message trump is handling. they wereat surprised by the fat anyone. >> such as greed is good markets role money is what matters in live and white matters are better than the rest. >> so those lines in the book, was that to you some of the messages that we get either explicitly or implicitly from the trump e presidency. make the argument that these are pretty widespreades ideas. and he is i kind of a logical conclusion of a lot of trend. such a state that he isn't something new. a newat iteration.

but that we had been worshiping at the altar of wealth and we have hadad exhilarating legionnaires, just because they're b billionaires. listing them to the status of god. he made the argument inn the bok that sort of electrical capitalism, infrastructure the gates foundation, the clinton global initiative. the pair set here wealthy people with social problems. we can fix government, it sort of pivots gazes knowledge in the computers fear to him being an expert on global health and reproduction agriculture in africa and just because you are really good at one thing doesn't mean you are really good in everything but you live in a culture seems to assume that just by coming a billionaire, you are treated as if you know everything. the argument i'm making in the book, among other you arguments is that that created a context

with someone like donald trump to stand before the american people, sure i have no experience in government whatsoever but i'm really rich and the fact of my richness and the fact that i ran the company that claim to be successful the fact that i at least play a very successful business manner but tv show that your watch, that is why you should vote for me. so to try to do in that book is that we explore the various roads that lead to trial. to make him less shocking because when we are in a state of shock, we are pretty malleable. were pretty distractible. were not very focused. i sometimes say that as a shock is the gap between if it in our narrative about the if it. if you don't have a story that explains the if it, the urine that now able state dislocation shand talk. i guess i try to do my part in helping get the americans stop

shocked shocked that we could sort of protect ourselves from the trump, a lot of what is happening, behind the scenes. behind shock. trump is nonstop distraction machine. there's actually a pretty clear pattern to what he is been doing in economics here. no president has deregulated as much of the american economy the environmental standards as donald trump. nobody is even more to millionaires and billionaires, and stacked cuts than donaldto trump. the booklet called the corporate coupe. this led think the story that we often miss when we are so focused on what is new shocking thing that donald trump is on. what is the latest week. he knows that. i think that's why he treats soh much. it is just a constant look over there sort of strategy. he may have taken it a little is it too far and he may pay the price for that. >> you make the point that the

trump brent it's not even in the top ten of the luxury brands hotels in the world. and he began by talking about election night case of hillary clinton and donald trump in midtown manhattan, but the new york city's, your half a world away. your reaction we do the news. for software where you and what was your reaction. >> i was in australia. i'd been awarded the sydney peace prize. so i was in australia the better part of the month. i was doing research, mayday documentary, the great barrier reef. which had just experienced a massive die off. most of the reefs bleached half of it is that. started combining speaking that i was doingng with new research and political organizing with work. i was actually in a meeting in

australia with a group of organizations who are interested in putting together a coalition to push for an australian green new deal for version of it is really up there trade unions there trade union leaders and did to his rights activists and organizers climate activists, all in this room. we were having a forward-looking meeting, and we do this in and we get our forward-looking agenda move together. this is been my focus since i wrote this changes everything. in the middle of the meeting major started, everybody's phone started vibrating and because here in new york, the election results were coming in the evening but it was midmorning in australia with results from communion and behavior that trump looked like he was going to win. in this meeting which was all about imperative to embrace bold

climate action is sort of faded away as everybody realized that we were all in completely new territory. and everybody went away to find a different screen than their files to watch this in real time. >> was custom robert in washington. >> hi and thanks for taking my questions. i read a book i think it was published in 2003, all plenty and was written by mr. brown, is retired since then but he was talking about mobilizing the wartime mobilization to address climate change. i wonder if you read that were familiar with his work and what if so, what influence did he have on the current green new deal. thank you.

yeah i am familiar with his work in the literature that draws on world war ii as historical precedents that shows us that it is possible to re- tool factories. an incredible liquid role for the stories going from producing cars and seemingly overnight. there are also monday parallels with people change. mention victory gardens the fact that 40 percent of americans work getting the products from victory gardens. americans and canadians and british people also radically move around the single world war because of all the fuel need it to be conserved for the war effort and so pleasure driving, was not on a people drove very little compared to the way we were driving before and the public transit, increased by

more than 80 percent of public transit use. in this country more than 90 percent in canada. so there really are important parallels bernie sanders talked about these parallels as well. s his informing the debate. i think this points to the fact that what we are now calling the green new deal it's not a new idea. it is been running around the climate movement for a long time. the reason why i think president of the new deal is the little bit more useful than the world war two president and it simply the sort of top-down and i think that i would it bought federal government to have that much power and so i think we need a model that is more decentralized and empowers communities more and empowers subnational

governments more but the truth is they argue this and on fire we actually need to look that whole era to look forward to the presidents for this kind of deal andnge in the new the transition to the wartime mobilization and the marshall plan as examples of times when resources were marshaled because people understood the threat and various threats where it was great impression or fascism. in the case of the marshall plan with the u.s. was worried about is a lot of countries where we are falling on control the soviet union so they wanted to rebuild western europe in a way that would make socialism less appealing whichur meant fear having mixed economy and safety nets and start trade union rights so we can't have deregulated capitalism it has to be more mixed economy that has a much stronger social protection

for people will go and will is it all topl the associate. >> dimmable court author that influenced your thinking on a subject. books.es, monday and you know wherei to begin bt certainly when i was writing this changes everything reading silent spring was really important some indigenous thinkers. i am canadian as we talked about ire dedicate on fire to a man named arthur manual who is the really important indention does leader and author in canada. he is the former chief and mentor of mine in a couple of books. his published book that i think is incredibly important for the reconciliation manifesto, is

that the centrality of land breaks, mondaytr including fighting climate change. that indigenous brand right and knowledge is very important as we are going to try to rise to this challenge in the book that has the biggest impact recently is the novel which is the over story which he told everybody they have to read. >> because. >> is magnificent. modern novel area i read a lot of fiction that helps me think about the work that i'm doing run diamond plus side behavior is one of the best behaviors about climateon change. their most recent novel, is underappreciated called unsheltered because she wasas alreally kind of getting at what it means to live in a house that is falling apart. her novel is the physical house.

sort of a manifestation of our collective health. this planet itself. but yeah, the over story is just magnificent it in science and understanding how trees communicate with each other is also one of the most beautiful descriptions of activism that i've ever read i don't think activists gets a fair shape. in our society and for the collective good of neural freedom. he writes about people feel so passionately about protecting the force that they engage in direct action. they move into trees, lemon trees, they for me they get cut down any writes about that. not critically but with a lot of

respect and b compassion. and be able to see that. >> imaging husband the places restrictions on your website. see one of your editors. yes. >> is always edited me. earlier on, he would edit me more, he reads everything before it goes out. and i at him as well. we have collaborated. he has directed a film that when i was writing this changes everything, he mayday film to go with the book in a way. the project were in parallel. usually write a a book and then you may come about it. you going to make them about which i did the shock doctrine.

it's made something little bit funny about that because you know necessarily retracing your footsteps so you don't actually have the same sense d of discovy when you are doing research and are chased by a researcher sort of mimicking camera and for me, i never want to go backwards. i wanted to go forward so i really didn't like the idea of making films after i'd already written a book we had a sort of stuff. so we decide toto do something different and i was writing a book and he was making the film. were both that we really busy so he had less time to me than he had her previous book he is the great if it. >> she recently passed away, the biggest challenge writing book with her husband, steve roberts. >> you know what, i believe it and it was hard enough to make the filling but together they're not sure.

i'm a strike and book with anyone but it wouldn't do it with anyone because i do not value our lives much. >> i would like tour know where are all the people going to work in the future it seems as though the last few decades that have doing away with middle-class and llrsonally i think the lack of jobs is the root of all evil. >> is the great question. and i think that it's not exactly a lack of jobs is the lack of jobs that pay salaries that can support families to provide benefits is the sense of security pretty low unemployment are pretty low or very low

unemployment there's an epidemic of underemployment and a lot of people having multiple jobs. there is this contradiction where people support in the economy was great, there's low unemployment but that doesn't explain there's so much economic stress why people are falling in poverty and why there is an epidemic depression and addiction clearly not everything was going well with the kind of jobs the people getting. it is clear and when we invest in renewable energy and energy efficiency, and public transportation we create any time for jobs already there are more jobs in renewables the united states and there are directly employed in fossil fuel sector. i thought is it too often we haven't made sure these new jobs, it's income salaries the people had not a plant for

exelon. these are good jobs. off of they are getting worse which is why wee have a strike right now. we need to make sure this is in the original agreement deal resolution from alexander, they say that workers who are moving from high carbon jobs to these new jobs in renewables and energy efficiency, need to maintain and so that is really key. another part of it is that we have a lot of jobs the sector particularly in what's sometimes called the care economy teaching your things overwhelmingly women's work because of spin women's work and i know there hasn't been any women callers. [laughter] because women's work is devalued in our economy so if there are any women out there so slowly.

>> i noticed the same thing. >> go ahead tom. >> hello. i had blame my mother for that. [laughter] really thank you. your clarity ofo thought and communication. on the existential crisis of our lifetime. but also i heard you speak on ubyoutube, and the other venues, about what is sacred and the demarcation, what happened in the new edge as we come more scientifically based and got away from older more religious ways of thinking, can we separate the supernatural and superstitious from the sacred and come up with a new vision about what we're going to see in the future and a new live

expectancy and the clean new deal for our future particular for our kids and grandkids. thank you very much for your time. >> what great big question. i know and i think that the dawn of scientific resolution, and the industrial edge, there was a shift in worldview. it was away from the natural world of sacred, i appreciate the color, using the word sacred because they don't think it is just about religion organized religion, and once again, it is relatively new phenomenon to not see the natural world as sacred as a little bit scary as alive

and deserving of our respect. pretty much every other cosmology modern industrial edge, saw natural world that way and we do see the natural world the way you know little bit more careful you wanted this off the gods. you don't want to make is it too big of a mess so i think that draining away of the sacred, this part of the reason why i love the over store. i think it is sort of a re- enchanting of the natural world that, a lot of people i believe are drawn to and craven understand that part of our crisis that we are in. has to dowi with imagining the world is machine andin ourselve. the mena his that we can continue take those ticket take that went out repercussion.

i do believe it's not just written for thehe poor. the claimant is just not an economical crisis or an economic crisis. the narrative prices and a e narrative that he could domine nature and draining and fixing see natural world to see us dominate. >> is how we ended up where we are. going to a return to older stories combined with newer on ones. this is going to be hard of us doing this out of us. >> it's is the windows a w collection of essays that i wrote after rose came out. what is very much on the frontlines of this debate about corporate globalization. to make this changesou everythi. >> this changes everything

subtitle is capitalism versus the climate. it is about the clash that we have between an economic system that will require expansions in order to not be in crisis. in the natural world the requires that we contract an order should not be in crisis. >> margaret in arkansas. i margaret. >> thank you and thank tom for his question. in naomi for her reply. this morning, my phone received two alerts for flash floods in my area and i think greta is the prosthetic voice. it seems to me some religious tdenominations are listening, d hearing and studying to know the truth. and i am unsure about my own

denomination the southern baptist. i don't really know what their opinion is now. some of us believe that that it's the first bible and will do well read the scriptures of nature and accurately interpret them. >> we lost part of what you were seeing but we will give an made it through to you. we'll get your call. >> i absolutely agree that we need safe leaders in this conversation. it isn't just about politics and economics. we need speak to people. not just organized religion but i have a chapter in on fire, and describes the very unlikely visit by koch is the secular jewish.

doctor pope francis really says cyclical oncology which he was an incredible document. i would encourage everyone to read it. i never thought i would be recommending this. it is an amazing text. it draws on the teachings of francis road so if you see, and being the vatican, i attended conference about the cyclical about where he was a really profound thing that was happening in the catholic church about likely egg re-examining the idea that the earth is human dominion. that is just here for us. and really what pope francis was staying very clearly was when nature has value in of itself, and that was pretty radical. the scene is pretty radical to parts of the catholic church. we need that kind of leadershipf from all faith leaders.

>> your first book came about 20 years ago. so if we were to sit here about 20 years now. how do yours think history will judge president trump in this moment of history. >> this moment in history, i think it will depend on what we do. i think we are at a profound crossroad. when i am worried about in thisi moment it's not just the weather, i'm not just worried about the flash flooding that the previous caller said of the four spires of the ravaged part of the continent in my family is, or the historic storms that are counting the caribbean as we speak. i'm worried about all of that. but what scares me the most is the introspection of heavy weather with this rising climate of hate. i don't think are unrelated. i think they are seeing figures

like trump in march but also in brazil and the philippines, these even money and in india, the figures who are really good at defining protective groups and then defining these threatening others. yahoo! groups and they are international order and also as we know with trump, they help called invading armies of others. so we are seeing a fork or see orders not just in the u.s., we are seeing them in the european were thousands of people have been left to down thee mediterranean. i don't think it's a coincidence that these two fires are happening at the same time. the fires of climate disruption and fires of men unmask, public hatred. i think people understand that era ofinjuring are in an ecological destruction that this

space for human habitability are distracting. people are going to have to move.ra there's a couple ways were can respond that. the danger of how we will look back, on this moment 20 years from now, my fear is that this will be the moment where we decided that we are just going to only protect ourselves, our own.th in the we are injuring an era where people are going to be okay withth seeing unspeakable number of people die. but we got another room. and that of the road is based on the idea that absolutely every human live has equal value and that everybody has the right to seek safety. that this is the crisis that was created in the rich world being self worse in the poorest parts of the world. other a lot.ach

right of being human. we are in a web of interconnection. so i hope in 20 years from now, what we are staying about this moment is this the moment when we chose not to board, but to share. and to figure out how to live together. to live on less land, but with more generosity more humidity, i believe it is possible. i know it is hard but the alternative it's not destruction. being the dive boat human they don't think we want to be. >> if the president is reelected. >> i know is that every waking moment, his focus on that not happening. because we don't have another four years. to spend cracking open wilderness to building new

fortresses and unleashing more hatred. i think getting rid of trump his absolute moralra imperative. that means making sure the candidate emerges from the democratic primary souza trusted messenger for standing up to corporate power, not being admired in a swap of washington. and really seen somebody who's going to have a different set of moral values. i'll leave it to your viewers and listeners to think about what is. best may set criteria but i incredibly important that they really be such a sharp alternative. they not have a lot of baggage going into this race. this is the big change. this is ahead of us.

there are very powerful verses that are going to try to stop anybody who tries to do the right thing. if you look at the candidates, make sure you know choosing a candidate is the very fine and a onong appetite for taking powerful figures. >> watched san francisco, john you know next with naomi. >> ami, it's really a pleasure to speak with you. i wanted too turn the conversation to kind of my favorite subject, russia. the ukraine, and the 2016 election. in the following collision with russia and i specifically wonder where you stand the closure delusion part but let me just say that the revolution that

happened in the mic on, in 2014, i see it as a classical regime change operation was run out of the state department, john mccain victoria newland and the whole gang, and then on top of the cherry of the new ones overheard conversation where she lays out the whole leadership of who's in and who's out. that is crucial because as we talk about ukraine and its role that is now being talked about, you have to go back and realize that that was grandma taught and that we supported and neofascist and for the fascist elements in the ukraine that are still active and are so strong. a jump forward to the 2016 election and you have all, becomes charles campaign manag manager. hillary campaign, who completely in bed with the ukrainians from the wooded talk, joe biden etc.

they're basically doing maneuvers to get paul metaphor, indicted which he was indicted. the indictment was filed after tom became president. now i fast forward to hear where we have the two years of muller in this whole idea that trump was a russian puppet. even looking over every stone, they could improve that. which just goes to show it was about. it was a bunk accusation from the beginning. - >> i'm going to jump and so we can get a response from naomi klein. back i master that i agree there's absolutely nothing there. but i do obviously impeachable case around russia. what was going on now and we

can't retrain and what i'm talking about earlierg in terms of who the candidate is who would run against comp. i would encourage anybody who has trouble with mr. trump. go find a reasonable trump supporter and tell them the story, tell them the ukraine story the biden story and why you should be impeached. then tell me you feel about biden. because i don't think you could tell the story, in a way in which they both don't look bad. which it's not the same is staying if i did anything illegal. he probably hasn't. i do think that trump has committed an impeachable offense i think you should be impeached

for it. i think that he is committed other impeachable offenses that he could have been impeached for. given that this is the one the democrats have seemingly chosen. i think of the huge problem for biden. even if it's not illegal, i keep reading the stories staying there's no evidence of wrongdoing. define wrong. if there's no evidence of legality, this note same as the doing something wrong. i think that we are in the climate crisis and we were in a climate crisis when you're in the obama years. the obama biden, presidency was all about natural gas. they're interesting in ukraine was all about increasing natural gason production. the fact that the sitting vice president son would be on the board of an energy company of any kind, but for an energy company natural gas company

getting $50000 a year, is the kind of fossil fuel messages is him, is good for politics or the planet. but i think we need a much more clear break. with this kind of thing is assessable frankly. i think when and after the 2016 election, they asked me to watch andd often responded to the clm that there is loss set the no woman to be president. addressing that sort of there a lot of women particularly personally in one of my going to tell my daughters does this mean the united states is just is it too misogynist to ever have a woman lead. and i wrote making the argument that do not think that that's

what we should take from the 2016 election because i feel the hillary clinton was to compromising the candidate all on to run as far as she need it to run. one of the things that trump was vulnerable, was that he had multiple women accusing him of sexual misconduct and hillary clinton was not able to go after him on that because she was to compromise because of bill clinton and that was one of the reasons, among monday others that she lost the election. >> her hands were tied behind her back because of her own compromises. i would say that one of the things that trump is most vulnerable on his who his own self doing and that nepotism in his own family, which may be not illegal, certainly in proper place in the face claiming working america, and it's all about this workers. i think it's one of the areas that is most vulnerable having

to do with the various ways in which his family has profited from the presidency. biden a trusted messenger for that message. given what we are learning about that. does he have his hands tied behind his back the way that hillary clinton hands were tied behind her back. we need a candidate whose hands aren't tied behind their backs. please, don't make a joe biden, i would just like to say that. >> will notify for kentucky. nancy next. got ahead. >> like to get back to what we were discussing about fdr and the new deal. are you aware economic stabilization work was run by men who did this, treasure, he was a congressman. sixteenth amendment. i think a lot of what she wants

to accomplish to be done using article five, of the constitution. after equipping the treasure, after he left the congress, after the 16th amendment and the date treasury for fdr. 1929 crash, happen before fdr. economic stabilization work was in response to the depression. after we get this stabilized, went on sit on the supreme cou court. kentucky has had a lot of issues with russia. because they are our largest neighbors. ifd you you have to his dates n texas. >> your final.

>> figure from call in kentucky. >> i think i'll treat it like a comet. >> thank you for waiting margaret go ahead. >> take you. naomi had mentioned about the power per appropriations and just wanted to take her people aware there is a moment afoot to amend the constitution. to say that corporations are not people with rights. corporation is the useful device for organizing people and money and resources. but it should be in the public interest. corporation is formed by an active government, a corporate charter. and since we have a government of the people, supposedly. the people should, the corporation should surf the people rather than the other way around. so there is an organization called move to amend which is

workingg on passing a constitutional amendment to make it clear. the corporations have privileges which can be branded by law. but they don't have the same inherent rights as people. so just like to make the point. >> is the great initiative. i would definitely people check it out. big piece of the puzzle. in terms of having all of the believers that are need it leaders need it. corporations are having the same fashion as this people is the big barrier. >> good afternoon. and i thank you so much cspan2, you have very mind expanding programs and gas on every single day. ms. klein, i share your last name. so it's fun but it is felt a different way.

i'm a former poet of my town. i have aan two part question. wanted to know if you will ever write poetry. did poetry contribute anything to your writing in the past or how you started writing. because monday writers stated they started with poetry before they went to press. the other part is because of your canadian upbringing, i have relatives from canada myself. i wondered if you think having your son be at the edge of school, do you have of value of canadian school education over the american education public private or charter. i like to know your opinion read i will hang up and listen on the air. >> before you hang up place in line. us.tay with gina. i was going to ask her to read a verse from one of her poems. >> that would've been nice.

i guess have to admit i did write some bad poetry before i started writing prose. it was definitely my first sort of writing fashion. but i haven't done it in monday years. >> i think it would berd hard, poetry. >> sort of fit my teenage years very well. i appreciate it and one of the things that talk about around but agree new deal should mean, is that the original new deal is public funding for the arts and poets and playwrights and novelists and painters and moralists and so on. this is actually good for low market we need to invest in. by just putting up solar panels. poets, that's a green job. zero just take your previous color.

so i am living in the united states are now design featuring. we just actually remotely more than a year ago. canadian public school system in the american public school system, i think it is tricky because i would say that the canadians public school system is less unequal than the u.s. one is my perception right. i think because it's all based on property taxes here. early spine living, so much is based on chart property taxes. absolutely massive discrepancies kind of public education you get. then separate them by just a few miles right. we do have differences. the u.s. it fall is racial thought lines and in schools in wealthier neighborhoods for better

resource and certainly it will raise more money and so on. but it's not quite as unequal in the united states.er there are definitely things about the u.s. public system the fine art better than the canadian system. i feel very disloyal staying that but my son has special needs and he needs special support and you have the american disabilities act which is been really strong illegal instrument that has given students and parents stronger tools to require that school provide the supports. to be honest with you, people of their views about canada and i would be happy to talk about how much better our healthcare system is but when it comes to special needs, the u.s. actually has the lead. >> both of or not they have

influence here in your writing thinking. that.about heidi is joining us from maine. >> hi. this is an honor to join you today. i am very blessed to have met you of cooper union years ago. i have a lot of ground to cover but basically i want to ask you about your concepts of silencing of the scientists and canada. in your thoughts of the concept of fossil fuel and corporate sponsorship ofwh laws that clampdown onrs environmentalist. especially indigenous people. in the spirit of the unity and sacredness standing rock, i'm asking you how to how we: our leaders especially in new york city massachusetts and maine that want to base their renewed deals on these genocides and equalized cleansing. of some of our indigenous neighbors such as, well we've had based on the situation with

the alberta canadian tar span stuff, i'm talking more about the neighbors of our north and the james ecosystem that has been cleansed by québec mega dams. how can we find a more sustainable way to offer them an olive leaf so that the people who are working in those fossil fuels in all of these other industries is that they can find another way to find an income that would help them also help their people be able to live in sustainability. soon active a lot of the table, will get a response. it. thank you for that. >> a lot there. so the core principle of what climate justice would mean our the people who won, the people who got the worst deals on the gcurrent extractive fossil fuel

based economy reading the people who have the dirtiest industries in the backyard to have the highest cancer rates, asthma rates,s, they're bearing the burden of this economy they need to be first in line to benefit from the transformation including onionor controlling their own energy projects and getting the jobs as the scholar was alluding to but also that no worker should be left behind. this transition we talked earlier about the language. i'll send you the resolution about workers in those sectors and maintaining their salaries. also has a jobs guarantee that just how concretely in addition to the jobs that will be created, huge number of jobs bernie and sanders estimates 5 million jobs in energy efficiency spirit. building affordable green housing. and really investing in public

transit and rails. and of course renewable energy. you have other sectors where as i was talking about the carry economy teaching low carbon, but in addition to all of that, there's also a lot of cleanup work that needs to be done. the caller mentioned the alberta tar span is with this is only true in any region where you've had intensive fossil fuel extractions cracking god out of an abandoned wells, a lot of land rehabilitation to do, there are tens of thousands of abandoned wellheads in alberta mentioned. there is actually hundreds of thousands of jobs that can be created just by getting the polluters to pay for the mess they created. that doesn't require a lot of retracing. these are workers would be on job sites. they put in the wells. the nomadic apples and clean them up. it's just a problem is were not

getting proper fuel companies to finance the cleanup. there's believe are to be done and we have this principle, the front-line communities including indigenous people need to be for someone, and and they can be, as i mentioned earlier, it's really important that that indigenous knowledge and land rights, be respected as part of our response to the climate crisis. we know we need huge reforestation and land rehabilitation. this shouldn't be done on thehe same model the dispossessed and did you shoot his people the land, you create national parks they have access to the land. there has to be a way that we respect indigenous land rights and that leadership as part of the huge conservation work ahead. >> in about a minute or two left. saco minnesota last question please be brief. >> wondering about the 911, they

stop the airplanes from flying and planet heated up a little bit. i'm wondering in minnesota today, fall is coming earlier in winter is staying around later, and just a comment about that and less live is getting through maybe is that going to affect clients. >> thank you jack >> minister i really understood. about sir about less live coming through. >> absolutely, climate change has gone from being this future threat and we talked about being worried about off in the distance to, impacting the lives now.y much everybody some cases it sort of noticing the subtle changes around both

of an like this is the strange fall, why is it so hot. flash flooding. hyfor monday americans, there'sn entire city is been flooded, they lost infrastructure, or the west coast, they are blanketed wildfires and some summer after summer after summer. i was recently in paradise california which was to the ground by this historic campfire. this it's not an abstract issue. this it's not a far-off emergency. we are seeing this reflected in the polls. this is the huge shift since i started writing about this. americans are now ranking and concerned about climate change and very long healthcare. >> the role students play influencing what they are thinking. or shipping your questions are how you do this.

>> i think young people generally have or the young people i talked to the students i have also enemy people everywhere i go in a partner with the sunrise movement, which is a youth climate justice movement that is been demanding green. everywhere i go i have a private meeting with them before i do my public if it. and they are worried about everything from both of it makes sensema to go to college there e so uncertain about the future, both of they should have kids. i getce questions like this because they're so so concerned about what the future might ho hold. think young people are living with such a sense of insecurity about work but also the sort of broader essential sense of is there a future at all. one of taking this seriously enough in terms of what it means

to their mental health and really way to the future. and being in contact withh them is what fuels me. >> in-depth with naomi klein. her work including no logo, noise on the left, the shock doctrine, and on fire. thank you for joining us in cspan2 book tv, we appreciate it. >> it is my pleasure this week you are watching but tv. watch top nonfiction authors and books so long with coverage of events. in interviews on policy technology and more. bless her signature programs in-depth, and afterwards, enjoy the tv this week and every weekend on c-span. and now,