and un- smart things trying to make sense of that >> author lee.

>> russell kirk - - one day he woke up and said i want to write a book about all the conservatives that have lived and worked and made a difference in our history. no one had done that before. they express in irritable mental gestures. that was the disdain or contempt the liberals had were conservatives. russell kirk said, i don't think that's right. he put together this book called the conservative mind which liberals said the words impossible. when they began reading the book - - there was and had been

a conservative tradition in america since the founding. [indiscernible]. >> when he got through and published the conservative mind. liberal said, wow. >> wasn't a hit right away? >> it was. for depleting if you will. - - deep reading if you will. it made russell kirk really the most important conservative intellectual in america. >> in many of your book, you indicate that 1946 was a key year in the modern conservative movement. why is that?

1944 and in 1945. the reader's digest picked it up and did a digest of - - extraordinary that some 16-17 million americans, which is the circulation of the reader's digest at that time. read that book. what's important about that reader's digest version is that two gis coming out of world war ii read it in the digest. one was an arizona businessman who had come out of the wars. what am i going to do now? i don't want to go back into business. maybe i will get into politics.

his name was barry goldwater. and he told me when i interviewed him years later that it made a difference in the way he looked at economics. the way he looked at society. the other g.i.was a sometime hollywood actor who had him a couple pretty good films and not so good films. he read it also. his name was ronald reagan. and then i interviewed him years and years later. he said the same thing. that barry goldwater. what a difference that one book have made in the way he looked at society. way he looked at economics. the way he looked at himself. >> what was america like in 1946? >> it was a nation wanting to get back to what it called normalcy. the had fought a very tough war and won it. many people have died but hundreds of thousands had died. so the gis returning wanted to

get married. they wanted to have babies. they wanted to buy a little house perhaps with the picket fence. maybe with a tire floating off the tree in the back. they just wanted to enjoy life once again after facing death during world war ii. and it was a time when we were in a political transition. the democrats to the republicans. that was the motto as a matter of fact of the republicans in 1946. which was, had enough. if you have had enough, vote republican and that's precisely what happened. that elected the famous 80th congress. the so-called do-nothing congress which had done an extraordinary lot. for example, working with harry truman that brought about really the building blocks of the policy of containment. the truman doctrine. the marshall plan.

nato. all that came out of that so-called do-nothing congress. at the same time, under bob taft's leadership in the senate, he was an ohio senator. they cut taxes. the cut spending at the same time and the country was better for it. at least as republicans argued. >> who was robert taft and what was his role in the modern conservative movement? >> robert taft was a brilliant senator from ohio. elected in the 1930s and took it upon himself to challenge the new deal. >> the son of william howard taft. >> yes, thank you. president and chief justice of the supreme court. robert taft was a brilliant guy. always prepared to always knew what was happening on the senate floor. always willing to take on the democrats and the new deal.

what would happen is that people looking around when a new bill came to the senate, it would turn to bob and say, what's this bill all about? they knew he had taken the time to read it and do - - he would be able to discuss it. he was conservative but he didn't call himself a conservative. we didn't have conservative movement and 46. bob said sometimes i'm a livable, sometimes i'm a conservative. but most of the time i'm a conservative. >> mr. edwards, when would you define the beginning of the modern conservative movement? >> i think it really begins again, with that book. >> if there wasn't a movement at that point, when did that movement start? >> when did the movement start? well, that did not occur for another decade. when this extraordinary young man named william f buckley

junior decided he was going to start a magazine. that he said, it's not going to be just a magazine. i'm going to do the same thing with this journal, with this magazine that the new republic did in the 1920s and 30s. which is to prepare the american people for the new deal.for progressive era. bill, looking at where we were in 1955, there was no movement. he said we desperately need this magazine. to bring about a conservative movement and to do for what we believe in, limited government, traditional american values. free enterprise. all of those wonderful ideas. with that magazine, we can begin to create this movement. what's interesting peter, is that what was he going to call it?

well, when bill wrote - - which had been four years earlier. 1951. he had said, talking about himself, i'm not conservative i'm an individualist. an individualist. by 1955 when he started - - he said this is a conservative journal and i am a conservative. both what had happened? in the interim. in 1953, russell kirk had written the conservative mind and had given our movement. a name. the conservative movement and without russia, we would have called ourselves the individualist society which doesn't roll off your tongue terribly easily. but bill could see what the impact had been of just that one book.

very easily abandoned the individualist and called himself and the magazine, conservative. >> in your autobiography, just right. you said you became a conservative because of communism. >> true. it really began for me in 1956. i was in paris. doing studying and going to classes but occasionally going to classes. perhaps spending more time than that at cafcs and cabarets late in the night. and then in october 1956, i had just gotten out of the army and i was settling in. i was going to be a great novelist. another hemingway. and out of budapest, came of

radio broadcast that the people of hungary had risen up against the soviets and said get out of town. miracle of miracles, they did. the soviets - - their tanks. they sent them back in and slaughtered thousands of young men and women. my age, i was then 23. and i was so stricken by that. i thought, what can i do? what can my country do? it was a very weak press release out of the white house which disappointed me greatly. we didn't do anything more than that. and i resolved peter, at that point, that whatever else i did. i would help those who were proposing communism as best as i could. so i became an anti-communist because of the budapest

revolution of 1956. >> so that was dwight eisenhower. >> yes. the republican party is one thing and the conservative party is another. and we can't judge the ups and downs of the movement faced upon the ups and downs of the party which is just interested in election. the conservative movement is an intellectual movement has become a political movement and is interested in principles and ideas. and that's where i come from and where most conservatives come from.>> so dwight eisenhower and robert had collided from time to time. >> they certainly did. in 1952, bob taft came to chicago and the republican national convention with something like 500 delegates. he needed something like 600.

thought he was going to get the nomination. he was opposed by eisenhower. the great war hero of world war ii. the great leader in the invasion of normandy and the rest of it. at the very last moment, people begin switching from him to ike. and one politician asked, why? why did do that? he had a marvelous answer but he said well, we loved bob tasked but we love the victory more. and they knew if eisenhower at the top of the ticket, they were going to win. they were going to be harry truman and bring back a republican to the white house for the first time. so that was a grave disappointment shall we say to bob taft and a conservative. we said well, we have got to

nominate a conservative.we think that will bring no the forgotten america. the silent majority. that did happen a decade later. >> back to your autobiography. i read and reread why not victory. we must recognize the enemy for what he is. and use our strengths to oppose communism wherever it exists. that was a crusade worthy of joining. what is why not victory? >> it's a little book written by barry goldwater in 1962. came out after the conscience of the conservative which was an enormous bestseller. so 3 million copies. and his running for the presidency in 1964. it was his statement as to what kind of foreign-policy he would pursue. at the top of the list would be

not just playing for a time. not just a combination, let's make a deal every now and then. we want victory. we want to end the cold war. that was a statement which he proclaimed vividly. eloquently. in 1962. and it had influence on ronald reagan. >> one was he first elected to the senate? >> 1952. coming out of world war ii, looking around for something to do and decided, it might even be fun. that's what he said. didn't take politics to seriously but when it came to acting on principle, he would always pay attention to it.

the constitution was his northstar. that was the most important thing to him. >> legislatively, what was he known for? >> he was known for a strong national defense. making sure that there would be sufficient weapons for our military if we were called into battle. and of course we were in the korean war and the vietnam war. probably his most famous and really long-lasting legislation came in his last year. 1986, when he was responsible for the first reform of the defense department for the first time since it was organized in 1940. colin powell brought him in a couple years later with the persian gulf war.

went to senator goldwater and said barry, i want you to know we were as successful as we were with the persian gulf war. taking saddam and his people out of kuwait because of what you did and sam dunn. the democratic to bring about the first reform of the defense department. >> we want to show video and this is from 1964. i think you will recognize it. >> i would remind you that extremism and the defense of liberty - - [indiscernible]. [applause] thank you. let me remind you also, that moderation and the pursuit of

justice is no virtue. [applause] >> lee edwards, were you there? where was that and were you there? >> that was 1964 at the republican national convention. barry goldwater had been nominated the night before and this was his acceptance speech. i think it can be fairly said, maybe the most famous acceptance speech and political history at national conventions. i was there. i had been director of communications for the goldwater for president committee. i think i felt like dancing on the ceiling after we won the nomination. but, i have to say, i was not happy with that speech. i felt the use of the word

extremism would have a kickback. a negative connotation in the minds of many americans and the it might very well have been a mistake. by the way, i had nothing to do with the composition of it. nor did other important little type in the committee. and we were disappointed. we were nervous. i think what's also important to say is that there was no spin doctors at the time. today, if somebody made a speech like that, immediately following, everyone would move into a big room and there would be.his spokesman for the candidate. here's what that meant. here's what he had to say. here's the historical perspective and on and on. they didn't exist. those spin doctors and spin city didn't exist in 1964. so we left it to the media and

the politicians to interpret it. didn't have a chance to say well, what's wrong with extremism. patrick henry, give me liberty or give me death. the idea that just a couple months earlier, martin luther king jr. from a birmingham jail talked about extremism. he said i want to be extreme in my pursuit of justice. here were possible alternatives and ways of explaining what barry goldwater said. but what people heard was, extremism is no vice. that's what they heard. in the pursuit of justice got dropped out in the minds of people and of course our opponents whether it was lyndon johnson.

>> winning that nomination was a fight for the republican party. >> it was the beginning of the transformation of the republican party into the conservative party, which is what it is today. it began in 1964. george had a funny line about that thing well, barry goldwater was right. he was just 16 years too early. in 1980, ronald reagan won the presidency with essentially, the same platform. and the same policies that barry goldwater was recommending in 1964. especially, why not victory. >> this is a question you ask in your books, can conservatives - - [indiscernible] >> i think they can.

the so-called do-nothing congress, did all those wonderful things. cut taxes, cut spending. of course in 1980, we had ronald reagan. one of the great presidents. not only of the 20th century but in american history. that did extraordinary things. restoring americans confidence in themselves. sparking a period of economic prosperity, the like of which we had not seen before in peace time. winning the cold war. that was uninsured in every accomplishment.>> back to just right, joining the goldwater team was like being called up from class aa harrisburg to play for the washington nationals. >>. [laughter]. yes it was. >> what were you doing at the time and how did you get the call? >> i was in washington d.c. doing pr work and then a press secretary to a senator. in 59-62 and then went to work

for a small pr firm. then came the draft committee and i immediately volunteered as a press assistant and i was. except it at that. in november 1963, i was hired as a news director of the draft goldwater committee and that afforded me an opportunity when they formed the president committee to become the director of that. although i have to say, if i may, i was doing some travel with the senator. being a traveling press secretary. but we did a really, somebody to be officially director of communications. so they hired a gentleman. unfortunately, within a week, he had a heart attack. it had to resign.

we looked around and there was lee edwards in the corner but she was too young and too inexperienced. they hired another veteran and he worked for about two weeks. turned out he was an alcoholic. and also a skirt chaser. so he had to resign. they looked around and said, there's edwards. he's too young, too inexperienced, but he's here! he's here. okay. we will give you a chance. to that's how i became the director of communications of the goldwater for president committee. but i did a pretty fair job through the convention. >> that's how liberals saw conservatives i thought. how rockefeller and scranton saw the goldwater delegate is not the storm troopers would unleash - - on those who opposed him. >> from early on the republican

liberals like rockefeller and others were determined to paint goldwater as some sort of extremist. as a wild cowboy out of the west. what was at stake of course was the republican party. who was going to control it. the eastern establishment had controlled it since forever. and here along came barry goldwater. the west, southwest, the south. and they said no, we are not going to give up to these people. that means tarring and brushing. barry goldwater by painting him and extremist, so be it. as it turned out, we had done our homework with the help of clifton picking up delegates in the various states of our time.

in those days, it was not so much the primaries that made much of a difference. what did matter is what happened at state conventions, county conventions and even local conventions. and we had steadily lined up delegates as early as 1963 for the convention. so we knew going in that we were going to win the nomination. that meant that barry goldwater would say whatever he pleased and really let the people know what was at stake here. >> what do you remember thinking about nelson rockefeller? >> i think probably what i remember is somebody who had a checkbook. who would write out checks to do things. to win however he could. whether it was to persuade

delegates or to engage in tough love. tough tumbling and a primary. i think most of all, he was for us, a young conservative. which is what i was at the time. a big government liberal. if you thought there was a problem, all you have to do was spend money and that would solve it. so is it what is the difference between him and a liberal democrat? none whatsoever. so we are not going to go that route. it did turn out that he was something of an anti-communist, i'll give him a plus for that. when it came to domestic issues, he was a big government gone. very happy to do so and we were tired of that. not only young conservatives like me, but the older conservatives who had been around for decades were bloody well tired of it and we said

it's time for change. >> what does it mean to be a conservative today, lee edwards? >> i think it's a very exciting time. people are the some conservatives are a little bit wary. we are fighting too much. arguing too much. we are disputing too much. like hatfield and mccoy. i think that's great, because that means these are signs of vitality. of life. not of a movement that cracking up or on its last legs. people are fighting and debating and arguing so strenuously because something of value is of concern and that is the conservative movement. which is the major actor in american politics. at the same time, we have an opportunity to accept change.

i think that's part of what it means to be a conservative today. not to be so resistant that we won't allow anything to happen. even burke said change is inevitable. it's a question of being prudent change and that's what i as a traditional conservative are looking forward. the right kind of leadership and discussion but i welcome what's going on now. all the various strands and strains of conservatism. that's good. coming out of that will be a bigger and better and i think, more relevant conservative movement in the years ahead. >> i want to visual quote. barry would just go absolutely crazy if you were watching this today. he would be yelling at the television. he would think it's embarrassing, the situation we have with donald trump. it's not the republican party or the country we knew 25-30 years ago. that was susan goldwater on march 21, 2016.

>> yet, right. i think there's something to be said for that. at the same time, goldwater was a practical politician. it was not just a man of principle which he was, the conscience of a conservative. but he was also a practical person. he would have said, wait a minute now.63 million people voted for this guy. why? and what is he doing? i think he would have began saying, let's see. supreme court nominations. the regulation. tax cuts. strong military. national defense being built up in being concerned about trade that is not just free but fair. i think goldwater would have applauded those things. i'm pretty sure he would have. at the same time, he probably

would have said something like, why didn't from some other washes mouth out with soap? and make him understand that we don't need a potty mouth. except goldwater would not have used the word, potty. >> how did you become known as a conservative historian? >> well, i don't think i am. i think the story of the conservative movement is george nash.he wrote a marvelous book many years ago now called intellectual history of the conservative movement. that's the bible. the premier we refer to when we want to know what happened up until the 70s. george nash is a marvelous, careful, painstaking, brilliant historian. so i count him as the historian of the conservative movement.

it so happens i've written some books and biographies and histories. so maybe i'm sort of coming up, maybe from fifth or sixth. maybe i'm making my way up. i started all those years ago to be a novelist. that didn't work out so well. i wrote three very bad novels which never got published, thankfully. because they would have been an embarrassment. and then i said i'm burned out. want to go to academy. i want to teach and write. so i went back to school and got a phd. that's where i've been these past 20-30 years.

i guess i've picked up from churchill and i love that one line of his where somebody said what is history going to say about you mr. churchill? he said i know because i'm going to write it. i think what i'm trying to do in a small way with my works is to paint a picture of the conservative movement. sometimes from the inside. sometimes from the outside. so that people will be able to refer to my books and understand the conservative movement better and in what steps. >> one of the books you wrote is reading the right books. a guide for the intelligent conservative. what are some of the books contained in there? >> oh gosh. there are 109 books. some of my favorite books are in there. conscience of a conservative.

biography of goldwater which i think is a pretty good book. though buckley's - -. the road to serfdom. i think what we tried to do, we have about 8-9 different categories. we took these 109 books and put them into various statement ship, economics, politics, history and so forth. and what we did was to take a book like the road to serfdom and then to boil it down to a page or page -and-a-half to try to get people to see what it is and perhaps to spark their interest in it to make them pick up the whole book and read it. actually, that little book, it's only 125 pages, something like that. one of the hardest things i ever did. because i had to read a book and then condense it into

300-400 words. and that really is not easy.i mean, that takes an amount of concentration and focus to do that. i couldn't do it for more than a couple books in any one day. took a wild to come up with the 109 books. >> i think in the conservative revolution, you talk about your best selling book. which one was that? >>. [laughter] my best selling book was really my first book which has burned me enormously been so easy to write a bestseller. it was the first, i have to say, the first biography of ronald reagan. and i had met him in 1965 and interviewed him. and then he of course was elected governor the year following. and then in 1967, i said he is

going to be a contender. in 68, i'm going to write his story now. which is what i did. which is reagan, a political portrait. it was the first political biography. as a result of that. when people were looking for a biography wanting to find out more about this after was he just an actor? there was my book. the paperback sold 150-175,000 copies which was wonderful. >> and it originally appeared in the atlantic? did i get that right? >> no. should have. but didn't. [laughter] >> you're also a founding member of the young americans for freedom. how did that come about?>> in 1960, there was the republican party which was still in the

hands of the liberal establishment. in that same year was one barry goldwater published conscience of a conservative and he sold even more books than i do. he sold 3 million copies of the conscience of a conservative. and we began thinking young conservatives. i was the press secretary to a senator in my mid-20s. there were these conservatives from various areas. he said, what we need is a conservative youth group to influence young republicans and maybe to influence the republican party. so let's get that together. so doug and david were the organizers of it. he agreed to host at his home in connecticut. something like 90 of us showed up in september of 1960 two founded the first conservative youth group which became young

americans for freedom. >> what did it stand for? >> it stood for limited government based on the constitution. free enterprise. that system which is best at bringing prosperity to the most number of people. it stood for traditional american values. we talked about in the sharing statement which is our founding document. about god-given rights. so we acknowledged that there is a god. there is a being. also that there is a need for strong national defense. because communism was the leading, most dangerous enemy of the day. and that was something which we said must be defeated. we said that in the statement. so those were the ideas, 4-5 basic ideas of young americans

for freedom. and i think of the conservative movement. was drafted and written by - - stanton evans. then the youngest editor of a newspaper in america. it still stands up very well as the best single, short, concise statement of principle. >> realpolitik was going on at the time. the presidential election in 1960. where were you all on richard nixon? >> he was not our first choice. [laughter] our first choice was barry goldwater. he was there and as a matter of fact, he was put in nomination but withdrew his name. but there's also just enough of the pragmatism and us to say

well, if we can't have barry goldwater. richard nixon is not bad second choice. after all, he was responsible for getting - - in the 1940s. he is somebody who understands politics. which is important to us. so we will work for him. and we did. many of the young conservatives of the day work as volunteers. not as volunteers. for the campaign. and naturally, we were downcast when he lost so narrowly to john kennedy. but time, we said come 1964, we are going to run barry goldwater and we began working to the end. >> did you ever feel deep down that you ever had a chance of winning?

>> and 64? no. i was privy to the polls, surveys, remember in january 1964 after tragically, john kennedy had been assassinated by a communist. we took a poll and we ran johnson, scranton, rockefeller, nixon. we had 23 percent of the people against the 70 something percent. the only one that did better was richard nixon he got less than 30 percent. so it was clear that the american people would not want another president, would not want three presidents in one year which is what you would have had. kennedy, johnson, coldwater. so we knew from the beginning.

and goldwater knew from the beginning that he could not win. he knew. why did he run? because young conservatives like me back to him and implored him. shook our fists and said you've got to do it. and he admitted that later. publicly and privately. that the only reason why i'm running is i want to keep faith with young conservatives like you. like me. >> we talked about the young americans for freedom and william f buckley. here's video from 1991 i will show you. >> the news from the home front is not good. we have a republican administration but we also have a burgeoning welfare state. a conservative would not be happy to exchange the domestic programs of 1960. for those we coexist with today. after 11 years of republican

administration. >> william f buckley. >> our hero. our model. our dream. he did so much for the conservative movement. that it's hard to quantify. and i summed him up in my little biography. i said by reason of his wealth. he was a very wealthy man and his social standing. that he could have been the playboy of the western world. but yet, he chose to be the - - of the conservative movement. they do that, to make that sacrifice, is something we can never forget. and he deserves all of the evidence that one can possibly

give we talked earlier about starting that magazine that became the genesis of the movement. he succeeded. national review did become that important. i think bill would say, we must keep in mind there is the conservative movement and there is the republican party. it's true that the conservative movement picked the republican party as its political instrument. who knows. i don't think so because the democratic has become more liberal and progressive. now we know flirting with some socialist ideas. so i think i won't say we are stuck with the republican party but it remains our political

instrument. but at the same time, we don't measure our success only by who wins or loses. >> how else do you measure it? >> by what happens in the culture. by what happens in education. one of the things which i think you can see happening more and more now is a young conservative are all over the place when it comes to the social media. they have their own blogs. their own websites and so forth. we see more and more young people saying, want to become a professor. want to see if i can possibly match wits with those liberals in prominent and maybe not so prominent universities. i look to an awakening frankly, here in america. and i think it's going to

happen because conservatives will make contributions and culture. and also i think in terms of the importance of faith. that we are not just believers in reason. but also in faith. we think those two things reason and faith are the two wings on which the constitution is flying high. i think as we keep our balance also between reason and faith. so i'm optimistic. i'm always optimistic, peter. but i'm optimistic because i see young people. not just coming to washington d.c. getting into politics. although many do. for example, there are 65 state think tanks now. a lot of young people are going to work for those think tanks and making a difference there in the state legislature and

the state capitals from coast-to-coast. there are signs all over the place of the renaissance of a conservative, renaissance. >> good afternoon and welcome to booktv on c-span2 fit once a month we invite one author on to talk about his or her body of work. this month, it's author lee edwards. we've talked about several of his books. he's written well over 20 so we won't go through the full list. hopefully we will be able to show you a lot of the book jackets as we go. but this is your chance to talk with mr. edwards about his history, about conservative ideas. about ideas that are not conservative. - - now, if you don't want to make the phone call or the

lines are busy and you can't get through. we will cycle through all of our social media sites. other ways to get a hold of us, make a comment we can read on the air. facebook, twitter, email, etc. we will cycle through those as we go but we've got mr. edwards for another hour and 15 minutes and we will begin taking those calls in just a few minutes. before we leave, william f buckley. i will read a quote from 2000. that he made. when he looks at the glass, he is mesmerized by its reflection. if donald trump were shaped a little differently, he would compete for miss america. but whatever the depth of self enchantment, the demagogue has to say something. so what does trump say, that he is a successful businessman and that is what america needs in the oval office. there is some plausibility in this, though not much. the greatest deeds of american president. freeing the slaves, harnessing

energy needed to win the cold war. had little to do with the bottom line. >> that's why we miss bill buckley. we desperately need him right now. to take on mr. trump. and that need to be done by someone like bill buckley. at the same time, if i was sitting and bill were there, i would say, let's take a look at some of the things that have been accomplished during this first couple years. beginning with cavanaugh and gore --gorsuch >> he would say are those victories insufficient to balance what we do have as the man. as not a very inspiring national leader. i think that's the kind of debate we would have and what we need more of right now. >> pro military.

less regulation. conservative justices. tax cuts. all donald trump administratio . >> right. in all conservative ideas or principles or policies. so that is why there is a lot of challenge to conservatives of these days. how do we handle mr. trump? i think something else needs to be said about him in a positive way. and that is he recognized the populist strain in america. better than any of the other candidates in 2016. and i've written that we have had that populist strain in conservatism since barry goldwater. if you look at goldwater's coming to prominence, that was

because he was appealing to that limited government, grassroots element of america. same thing if you jump ahead to 1980. the moral majority. there again, the silent majority. the forgotten americans. these are all themes which begin with goldwater and continued with reagan and continued with the contract for america at the same time. all of those had been vetted by looking at conservative people. then final this arc of populism for some 40-50 years coming to the present. for some reason, only mr. trump saw it. recognized it and used it to win the nomination and then the election although barely of course.

we'll have to wait and see what happens . >> i want to get your take of weather in 1988, this was the use of the conservatives. and this is george h.w. bush as vice president and the nominee for 1988. >> my opponent won't rule out raising taxes. but i will end the congress will push me to raise taxes and i will say no but they will push and i will say no. i will say to them, read my lips. no new taxes. [applause] >>. [laughter] >> lee edwards. i'm sure you remember that moment. >> i don't know whether or not he ever regretted saying that or not.

certainly, we held him to account as conservatives. and when he raised taxes, we were furious. hell happened fury like a conservative scorned. we were devastatingly scorned as a result of that. and frankly, we made him pay for it. because in 92 when he ran for reelection, a lot of conservatives back to ross perot. again, the populist. that populist strain that started way back in the 50s or 60s, continuing through the 1990s. there it was. embodied in ross perot. as we know, bush lost. as he should have i think. given that he lost his - - a great deal and wasn't sure what he was and how he should present himself to the american people. which is why ross perot got 19 million votes. >> who did you vote for in 92?

>> i don't know that i want to go into that. [laughter] i usually vote republican but not always. >> if someone were to pick up one of your books, which one would you recommend to get a sense of who you are. the conservative movement, etc. >> i think my goldwater biography. i'm really proud of that. i really poured myself into it. i did something like 200 interviews. visited presidential libraries. worked hard. writing and crafting it. and i think i pulled off - - i pulled it off. i think it's a pretty good book. and i think if you want to understand what happened in 1964, you want to understand goldwater. the conservative movement, it's all there in one book.

you don't have to v3. >> you don't have to read three. >> what was his relationship to other presidents? >> it varied from person to person. he really despised and johnson. he felt it was just an s kicker. so he knew running against him was going to be a real crucible. that he was going to be tarred and feathered. accused of all terrible things. but at the same time, i'm going to offer a choice and not in an. a conservative choice. nixon, he initially admired. worked with. nixon campaigned heavily for us in 1964. he had his own plane as a matter of fact.

and then nixon turned around in 1965 or rather goldwater did. after nixon announced he would probably run and goldwater endorsed nixon in 1965 for the presidency in 1968. he like to reagan. respected him, but they never personally hit it off. it's interesting. although they knew each other in phoenix, arizona. through in-laws and relatives and so forth. they never really hit it off. i don't know why that was. i have written or suggested one of the reasons was that goldwater was just jealous of ronald reagan. that reagan had made it and became president. whereas goldwater would never

have the opportunity. he felt reagan had not worked his way up as he had in the political system. all the sudden he was governor and president. i think there were mixed feelings in the senator with regard to ronald reagan. >> let's take calls and see what america wants to ask you. eric, you are on with author lee edwards.>> mr. edwards. i've had the pleasure of having that paperback biography of ronald reagan. the conservative movement so would you mention populism. i believe from the very beginning though, has never really been a united movement. and the populism was already - - [indiscernible]. you mention barry goldwater not appreciating ronald reagan. i interviewed him in the 70s. - - people believe is not given

enough credit for what he did for conservatism. [indiscernible] >> russia's opinion of goldwater, he wasn't a conservative at all. also, - - >> you've got a lot on the table and we will get an answer in a minute but you've got to tell us about yourself. you sound pretty connected. >> well, yes i am connected. i lived in europe. i've been here in new york. i've had an interest in how i see the decline of western civilization. and i do not see anything positive for us after president

trump finishes his presidency. there is only so much one man can do. he's not a conservative, he's a populist. >> can you tell us why you're connected? >> because i have intellectual integrity. and i have gone out to meet people. >> thank you sir. a lot on the table. where do you want to start? one of the things i want to make sure your dress is rusher. >> i think eric needs to have more faith. ...

>> guest: their gift is still with us in the constitution. in the declaration of independence. what we have to do is to figure out the best way to apply those ideas and those principles to where we are today. and that is what ronald reagan did as president. i think it's what barry goldwater would have tried to do if he had been elected. for example, there would have been no great society if barry goldwater had been elected president, that experiment, that trillion dollar experiment. is -- so even there, can conservatives govern, do they have the right ideas, i think that's been proven. with regard to two bills, bill buckley and bill rusher, so happens you may can ask me later, peter, what's your next

book going to be -- that's always one that comes along, so i'll take that away from you now. it's called "unsung heroes." 9 and i'm looking at it, i'm writing a series of profiles of conservatives who have either been forgotten or have not been sufficiently recognized. and as a matter of fact, i'm going to add to that list, and i'm writing it sort of one profile at a time a la dickens and put it together in a book a year or two from now. i'm going to add bill rusher, because the gentleman, eric, is right. rusher is important in many, many, many ways, and they put a political movement done as conservative. >> host: will tom witter be considered? >> guest: yes, he will be. ran human events all those decades, did a wonderful job. it was, by the way, ronald reagan's favorite newspaper and

was mailed in a plain brown wrapper to the white house so that those who thought -- were not as conservative as ronald reagan, would insure that until get to the president. they snuck it past the guards at the gate. >> host: next call for lee edwards comes from glenn in freeland, michigan. hi, glenn, how are you doing? >> caller: fine. thank you all very much for taking the call. two things, if i may. one, historically, to how would you -- mr. edwards, say the impact of phyllis schlafly was on the conservative movement and bringing it up to today? i recently saw a prominent conservative, mark levine, on booktv there promoting his

latest book on freedom of the press, and he was talking about how california, because of action legal and illegal, has changed so much that, to quote him, ronald reagan wouldn't be able to get elected dogcatcher today. it's basically a one-party state. very far-left democrats. that plus the culture, what the culture war stuff, the political correctness -- >> host: hey, glenn, we're going to leave it at those three issues, phyllis schlafly, ronald reagan in california and overall the culture wars. >> guest: well, phyllis was an extraordinary woman. she was the first lady of the movement, no doubt about that. she was the first person to create a pro-family movement from the conservative point of view, and she would, with what

was called the eagles where she trained women at the local level to get involved in politics, speak up for traditional american values; the family, the community. i think that she was absolutely one of the most important women of the late 20th century in terms of american politics. >> host: before we leave mrs. schlafly, what about the issue of abortion? >> guest: phyllis came along after roe v. wade, and that was one of the things which produced the pro-family movement. and since that time, since roe v. wade, pro-life issues have have become an integral part of the conservative movement and, frankly, of the republican party. and that's something, by the way, that mr. trump should be given credit for. he's been very vocal about that,

and i think he needs to be commended for that. i don't agree. i think that ronald reagan, if he ran in california, might surprise a lot of people with just how well. he was such a master communicator, i think that he could have reached out. i think that probably by now the people of california have not had a conservative alternative in how many years? so if somebody came along who was charismatic, who was principled, who understood some of the basic values and would be able to say, you know, people of california, let's not abandon such things as the family, as the community, as the constitution, i think ronald reagan would do amazingly well there. might not win, but i think he would run a closer and better race because i think that not only in terms of his charisma,

but because he would have been able to articulate conservative principles in a relevant and appealing way today. >> host: and finally, the culture wars. >> guest: well, andrew breitbart, this wonderful statement of his in which he said that politics is downstream from culture, it so happened that the heritage foundation -- of which i'm a fellow -- was not into the culture wars in the early '90s -- until the early '90s. and then we looked around, and we realized, yes, this is a culture war going on. we must get involved in it. and we have been up to here since then. we think that it's absolutely vital to talk about education, that you talk about what's going on in hollywood. and, by the way, what's coming

out of nashville is the counter to what's coming out of hollywood when it comes to music. i think that we would be looking at what mr. burke called the middle platoons of society; our churches, our communities, our families. all of those are part of what's going on in the culture war. and because the other side, if you will, has been so terribly vocal and have gotten a bit of a head start on the conservatives, they seem to be winning the race. i don't believe that. i think i see signs, i said earlier, of a great, another great awakening in this country, one based upon faith, one based upon people going to church, one based upon belief in a nuclear family. i see all those signs. and i'm encouraged by what i see, and i'm looking forward to

enjoying the beginning anyway of such a great awakening. >> host: hugh, ashland, virginia, please go ahead with your question for lee edwards. >> caller: hi. i'm the same way with faith and reason and the constitution. i actually share common background with president trump. i'm looking to help him unite the country, but i do have a problem that i would like dr. edwards to address and thank hum for his service -- him for his service. a vietnam veteran every rah, but in the 2016 campaign when he was running for president, he said he could shoot somebody on fifth avenue. with all the shootings going on around the country expect chaos, how would you say those words are resonating today? they never made sense to me then, they don't know, and they are hurtful. i would like to help him change and understand before the words come out of your mouth, maya angelou said words are very powerful, so choose very carefully whether you're going

to use words in a positive or a negative way. >> guest: i think that's a very eloquent statement, and i think you're absolutely right. it's unfortunate. he's a new yorker. he's from queens, he's from new york, and he has this tendency to hit back whenever he's hit without thinking through what he's saying, without calculating, perhaps, the ultimate impact of them. all we can do is to, is to hope and maybe pray -- [laughter] that people will, around him, persuade him to be a little more careful because, certainly, the business about shooting somebody on fifth avenue is not the kind of rhetoric which you want from your national leader. >> host: patricia is calling in from a state we've just been talking about, trinidad, california. hi, patricia. >> caller: hello. thank you for taking my call, and thank you, mr. edwards, for your continuing interest for so

many years. i met barry goldwater in 1964 in a portland, oregon, park of all places. he was barbecuing hamburgers -- [laughter] and later in the decade in 1968 i briefly then-governor reagan. very impressed with both those gentlemen. finish -- i wonder if you have any thoughts on a candidate for president following, perhaps, president trump's second term. [laughter] someone younger, articulate, dignified, along the lines of senator tom cotton of arkansas or perhaps jim jordan? i just wondered if you had any thoughts on the up and coming future candidates. >> host: patricia, very quickly, you sound like you've been an activist republican over the years. if you could give us a sense of your involvement in politics and then a sense of what you think about president trump.

>> caller: i'm very interested and engaged in politics. i'm in a small community. i've never run for office, but my grand parents in portland, oregon, were very active in the republican party, and so at 16 years old, took me to barry goldwater rally. i was a huge fan of william buckley right after i got my first television in the '60 in san francisco where i worked for united press international. and was actually in our bureau the day before robert kennedy was assassinated. and then in conjunction with my job at upi, organized a upi convention in san francisco, and that's when i met then-governor reagan. and i, it's strange to be living in a state where we have so few conservative voices that are

articulate. it's discouraging. there are a few of us left in california -- [laughter] and i hope dr. edwards is right in thinking that if someone like governor reagan, president reagan were able to run today, that he might win. it would be -- >> host: all right. patricia, thank you for calling in, and we're going to get an answer from lee edwards in just a minute. first of all, though, we're going to show you some video of somebody you may not have heard of. you may have heard of them. but this is somebody named walter judd. >> sds, students for a democratic society. it has more than 300 chapters on the college campuses of america. its national and local leaders in convention here at the chicago coliseum june 1969 take the major credit for the rioting, mob action, takeovers and burnings on college and university campuses throughout

the nation. >> this is the organization of sds. we've always been quite willing -- >> we'll talk about socialism anywhere. in the senate, anywhere. [laughter] >> i'm the secretary of sds, organizational secretary. >> there's a communist branch making a big power play for sds. >> is there any communists back here? >> i am walter h. judd. this film is presented by the national educational program, sere city, arkansas, to inform and impress upon american citizens who love their country the true nature and the true magnitude of those forces linked to world communism that are working within our nation for its overthrow. we do not challenge freedom of dissent on creme campuses or -- college campuses or anywhere in america. we acknowledge the existence in colleges and universities of broad areas for improvement, and we support efforts toward changes beneficially affecting

the future of american youth. this documentary is devoted to an entirely unrelated movement for change, a movement of revolution which openly declares its purpose to be, first, the description of our american educational system. then the, our economic system and, finally, our system of government. let the revolutionaries themselves tell it like it is in this film, "communists on campus." this is mark rudd, june 1969, elected national leader of sds at this national sds convention are at the chicago coliseum. this is mark rudd, april 1968 at columbia university, new york city. rudd had been named chairman of the sds chapter at columbia after returning from a three week tour of cuba where he visited fidel castro. >> we have closed down four university buildings, three of which usually have classes. we've had mass meetings of 800

and 600 people respectively. >> rudd's sds group and the afro-american society paralyzed the university. brown, one of the leaders of the student nonviolent coordinating committee, has educated all over america. >> black students of columbia university, joined by a few members of the black community, have been in hamilton hall for 56 hours. more than that now. as brothers, they maintain that they will stay there until the university is willing to talk on their terms, ask and we are -- and we are canning the community to support them. so we'll going to let columbia know if they don't want to deal with the brothers in here, they're going to deal with the brothers on the streets. >> host: all right, lee edwards, we have both patricia in to answer to and to figure out who walter judd is, and let's start with walter judd. who was he? you've written a book about him.

>> guest: well, walter judd was an extraordinary man who was a medical missionary in china in the 1920s and the 1930s who worked and treated as patients nationalist chinese and communist chinese, as a matter of fact. then became a member of congress for some 20 years, became an adviser in foreign policy, china, japan rain so forth, asia -- japan and so forth, asia, toizen p hour. very close to eisenhower. as a matter of fact, was once considered as a possible running mate for eisenhower in 1952. then after retiring, became what he called a missionary for freedom. doing, by the way, a radio program which was sponsored by the american security council and was a daily three-minute commentary which wound up on 1,000 radio stations. so he was one of the best heard americans in the '60, the '70s, into the '80s.

and then finally slowed down and gave me an opportunity to say, dr. judd, because of your insights particularly into china which remains such a major issue right now, let me write your book. which i did. but not before he went over every line of my book, of my manuscript. we got together sitting on two chairs in the kitchen, and he went through every single line. [laughter] he did not change that much, i'm happy to say. but he was a very painstaking -- he was a scientist, he was a surgeon, and he wanted things to be just so. so it was my first -- well, second, second biography. >> host: so to tie this into what patricia was asking about, would he have been one of those people that should have been president, in your view, or could have been president in your view? >> guest: yes, he could have been. if he had been the vice

president, run with ike, who knows? 1956, could have been. 19 -- he would have been a very formidable candidate. he gave the keynote in 1960 at the republican national convention and stampeded the convention. i happened to be there. i was at 11 straight conventions over the years. signs began appearing, walter judd for vice president. [laughter] so he still really tam perioded that -- stampeded that convention. >> host: so who is that youngish conservative that you're looking at post-donald trump? >> guest: well, i think that some of the names that -- is it sue? >> host: it was patricia. >> guest: that patricia mentioned should definitely be on the list. and there are others as well in the senate. i don't want to get into names, because i'd rather not do that.

but i can think of at least a half a dozen who have come to heritage, who have spoken, have impressed us by reason of their intelligence, of their understanding of conservativism, of basic what we call first principles of the founding. so i, one of the reasons why i'm optimistic, because i see great opportunities there. another reason for my on optimii have to say, peter, is because heritage has this marvelous intern program. we bring in about 150 college students every year, and i'm -- we have two or three who work in our particular little center there, principles in politics, and coming to work and working with these young people, it's just, it's stimulating. keeps you going. and i'm excited still about going to the office every day and being able to talk with ask and mentor, frankly, these young men and women. >> host: let's hear from

guillermo who's also calling from california, this time los angeles. hi, guillermo. >> caller: hello, peter and meed wards. i have two -- l. edwards. i have two questions and a comment. [inaudible] i was, my question is, one, and a short comment, abraham lincoln woke up yesterday from his 150 years of slumber, and he went -- [inaudible] they asked him why you leave the republican party? he said, i didn't leave the republican party, the republican party left me. so my question is, are you concerned? are you -- about the state of your party right now? that a sexual abuser is the president? second, my second question is are you concerned that you're a dying party? 75% of americans vote democrat. 73 president of his pan -- 73%

of hispanics vote democrat. your party's supported by white, old people. does that concern you? those are my questions. >> host: guillermo, we'll get an answer in just two seconds. give us a sense of your politics. >> caller: a sense of my politics? >> host: yes, sir. >> caller: okay. i used to subscribe to the national review. i read russell kirk, i read all the books, i used to read william buckley. i am hispanic, i'm an immigrant, an american citizen. i'm a vietnam vet, and i am very concerned, believe me. i have read william buckley -- [inaudible] i might have a ricky ricardo accept, but i'm very active in politics, and i am very concerned with the selection of donald trump. and i think the republican party is -- [inaudible] by backing this man. i have seen --

[inaudible] is my hero. i never liked him. the fact that he has stood up to donald trump, he's writing every single week or so in "the washington post," he has backbone, and many other people -- i tell you, the republican party, you're selling your soul. yeah, you got your two supreme court justices, you got your tax cuts, you're going to have a bunch of federal district judges, but i'm going to make a prediction, and i'm going to finish. in 2015 when donald trump was walking down the escalator, i was -- [inaudible] i told people, he's going to be president. he's going to be president. and i even made a bet and i won. and i'm going to make another prediction. this is going to be the last or two more election cycles, the republican party is going to be. sorry, that they ever backed donald trump. yeah, he's a new yorker. we hope, we pray that he doesn't

talk any more stupidity. the republican party has to wake up. >> host: all right. guillermo, thank you for that explanation. the gop left me and the gop has sold its soul. >> guest: well, of course, that's one possible scenario. if we look at the elections coming up though, there are other possible scenarios. it depends upon who the democrats nominate, it depends upon the economy, it depends upon what's happening overseas. i think it's really important, peter, not to get so caught up in the fate of the republican party. yes, it's a party which has been conservative more or less most

of the time, last 50, 60 years thanks in large measure to the work of the conservative movement, but that may change. that may change. who knows? there may be a third the party which comes along finally. i would say -- i'll make my prediction. i'm not in the predicting business, i'm a historian. i'm not a prophet. but i would say that if the republican party were in four or eight or twelve or whatever years it may be, if it were to begin to fade, that would not be the beginning of a one-party country here in america. a third party, a new second party would come to light, and it might be very interesting to see what kind of shape and what kind of content it might have. that would be my prediction there. >> host: we're going to put the phone lines on the screen if you want to the participate in our conversation with lee edwards.

202 is the area code. 748-8200 if you live in the east and central time zones. 20 2-748-8201 for those of you in the mountain and pacific time zones. we'll also scroll through our different ways of getting ahold of us through our social media. this e-mail came in, and this is from mike in illinois. what's the best conservative future for health care? >> guest: i think it is one in which you would have things, something like elements of the following: health savings accounts in which you would be able to set aside money to pay for your health care, but then use it for other purposes if you want, it would be health care in which you would be able to cross state lines, it would be health care in which previous conditions would not affect whether or not you're supposed to have health care or not. i think good health care would

be one in which there would be competition, would be competition. if you look at health care in both canada and in great britain -- and i've done just a little, but i don't pretend to be a specialist, but i have done a little bit -- and you see that where you have that kind of one-payer system that the waits which you're involved in getting operations are six months, eight months, twelve months, sometimes it's weeks before you can see your internist, your dp. these are all things that, as americans, we have not accepted. quite the contrary. we believe in choice. we believe in competition. and i think it's possible to put together the right kind of a health care program which includes those elements and yet at the same time maintains what

we have presently, which is medicare and medicaid. from our facebook page, chuck posts this: reagan was a traitor who started the u.s. death spiral. gop is responsible for the majority of the death. finish. >> guest: that's true. that's true. that the debt, national debt multiplied seriously under ronald reagan. my only response to that is what price peace? the reason why that was run up into the several hundreds of billions of dollars was because ronald reagan was determined he was going to win the cold war. he was going to help to win it. and as he put it, he said it may sound simplistic, but i have a solution and a way to end the cold war. we win and they lose. and he set about that by building up the military. and what happened, of course,

was that the soviets said we cannot possibly compete with the united states in arms race. we just can't do it. we don't have the means. and mikhail gorbachev understood that. so he, in effect, sued for peace. so i would say, you know, to ask yourself what price peace? was it worth running up the national debt as much as ronald reagan to end the cold war which included conflicts hot and cold, affected people on every continent and in which tens of thousands of americans died, to end that at long last and to do it at the bargaining table and not on the battlefield. >> host: kathleen's in lawrence, kansas. hi, kathleen. >> caller: hello. i want to compliment c-span. you're a wonderful program, and you have different points of view on. i'm calling in because i don't know where else to ask the

question. i am older and not a technocrat. but i'm a liberal, i grew up in california, but i transplanted to the midwest, and i'm concerned about the midwest being just considered flyover states. anyway, my question is a constitutional one. i'm worried about the erosion of the power of congress, and and i'm wondering why when it takes a to ratify treaties, why just one person, the president, can pull out of treaties. for instance -- well, i'm not sure all of these are treaties, but the iran deal, the s.a.l.t., the mid-range missiles treaty, the paris climate control. why does the senate also have to ratify when we pull out of

treaties? >> host: all right. kathleen, we'll get an answer in two seconds. but i want to ask you, why are you a liberal? >> caller: well, i grew up in california, my parents were conservative -- by the way, i was interested to find out that eisenhower was wanting to be -- both the democrats and the republicans wanted to recruit him for president. but i'm a liberal, well, i believe in enlightened capitalism, but i, you know, they say the democrats are tax and spend and the republicans are spend. ..

>> if you didn't pay the premiums and have a plaque on your wall, they wouldn't save your house from burning. we don't believe we should have competing fire stations now. i think we shouldn't have competing healthcare. and also the last i don't know. >> thank you very much. we appreciate your time. lee edwards, what did you hear from kathleen? >> kathleen, it's a wonderful question. i wish congress would speak up more. it used to be they would submit a budget and the present would

react to it. but we got into the habit so many years ago of the president producing the budget on congress reacting to it. it's a question of leadership. the power is there that if congress wants to, it can challenge the president when it comes to spending,, treaties. if the president does not implement a treaty which has been approved and passed by the senate, it's my understanding then the rest of the senate can take action and the man the president do so. but that would require very large cojones, on the part of the senate to stand up to the president. that's where they're lacking. the question of leadership. >> one kathleen talked about her political philosophy, she said she was a liberal partly because she felt they were more compassionate.that's been an

ongoing - - >> yes. i think it appears as though republicans don't give a damn. that only concerned about the bottom lines of facts and figures in dollars and cents. and not people. and that is the fault of communications on the part of the republican party. some presidents have tried to address them. george w. bush, and so forth. conservatives can also be guilty of that if there too libertarian and only concerned about that golden individual. what about the community? what about larger entities as well? so that's a challenge. what is interesting to me peter is in this debate going on right now among conservatives about the future of conservatism, the talking just

about that point. i think we're going to see conservatives being more understanding and more concerned about feelings than perhaps in the past. >> dave is calling in from baltimore. hi dave. >> hi thanks. i'm confused about the definitions. -conservative - - [indiscernible]. i have a good education. as in an economic - - it seems to me like el paso. racism and - - >> what do you think about the recent attention given to your city? >>.[laughter] well, elijah

cummings invited trump to come. i know he will come because he'd be scared he didn't come before and he canceled out. we have a great city. we have a lot of problems. just division from trump. no compassion. divide and talk to my face, which is racist. we are 70 percent black.>> that was dave in baltimore. lee edwards.>> you know dave, in his latest book. which is really quite remarkable piece of work. george will talk about the conservative sensibility. he said what a conservative concerned what is the essential thing that conservative is trying to conserve? and his answer is, the constitution. and the founding.

and the wisdom which was expressed and codified by such people as madison, hamilton, adams and the others. so that's number one. number two, you know, we have to keep coming back again. seems to me, two basic ideas. yes, pro-life. anti-gun. what is involved is a question of choice, isn't it? with regard to the second amendment. it's a question of should you be allowed to have that gun or not. a question of choice. with regard to life, we would say as conservatives, that the family is the building block of civilization. and we are - - people can

declare themselves to be gay or transgender or whatever.at the same time, you can't say that's more necessary than a basic nuclear family of a man and a woman. i think people would just keep going back to basic ideas, limited government. free enterprise traditional american values. and - - made this point. freedom is important. it was a great libertarian, self-described. he said yes, freedom is important. what's even more important is what you do with that freedom. so that means we're talking about individual freedom and responsibility. >> we want to talk about the importance of 1994. want to start with just a little bit of video. >> this is not just a platform

or just a set of ideas or brochure. there will be all of the legislative language. everything will be developed for 27 september and will be available to you and the american people. really, people will be able to take the ad out of tv guide. two weeks before the election. tear out that full-page. keep it. and on january 3, they will tune into c-span and within an hour or two they will know, these guys are different in their keeping their word and it's real. or its politics as usual. >> lee edwards, that was from 1994. now we will show you video, two years later. >> and that video is not quite ready so we will not show that but the video we wanted to show you was bill clinton saying the era of big government is over.

that was newt gingrich and then bill clinton. >> right. a little premature. [laughter] and talking about the era of big government being over. it certainly was reduced for limited during the 1990s. famously, with welfare reform. which the congress, the republican congress asked twice but was vetoed twice by bill clinton. then they finally gave in and said let's have welfare reform. and of course there were, i think there were three-for balanced budgets during the 1990s. why was that possible? cooperation between a democratic president and a republican congress. if you're going to bring about reform in this country, you will break the deadlock we have right now. it's immense leadership on both sides. in which they come together and cooperate together and work

together. if you don't have that, you're going to have - - which is a divided nation with a divided country. to me, the contract with america 1994. another evidence of the populist strain and conservatism. because newt gingrich went out and tested every one of the 10 items. surveying and the rest of it, to make sure what did the grassroots think about these - - balanced budget and all the rest of it. to me, it's another triumph. another victory for populism. when a particular kind of populism. i'm not talking old-fashioned i'm talking constitutional populism. based upon the constitution. i keep coming back as does the movement, to that essential founding document, the

constitution. >> we talked about democrats and republicans getting together and doing something with that would be compromised and that would only get you to 60-70 percent of what your original goal was. >> yes. but this is what politics is all about. is compromised. you have to know when to take your principles and apply them and to see exactly where they're going to lead you. got to be careful here. don't want to give up more than you should give up. >> a lot of folks today are scared or at least it's been said that folks are scared of being primaried on the left or right, because it seemed as a compromise.

>>. [indiscernible] is not going to be defeated. is going to be able to overcome a challenge from the left,) come times, depending upon the congressional district, that's what you want that's the best you can hope for. you're not going to be able to get somebody who is that conservative. to me, there are so many opportunities out there. i get a little bit frustrated when people don't realize the promise that there still is in this country. so that's why i'm a reagan conservative. i'm an optimist. these things are possible and reagan proved it was possible for we had been through the 70s, trauma after trauma. whether it was watergate, vietnam, the murder of john f.

kennedy and so forth. we were suffering at that time a tremendous economic downturn. and they say oh well, the cold war we will have with us and reagan said no we will not. we will win, they lose. to me, to do all three of those. people said it was impossible but ronald reagan did it. >> carl, you are on with author lee edwards on booktv. >> good afternoon.

[indiscernible] my question is to take issue with your comment about trump. trump is the first republican that talks to democrats the way democrats traditionally talked to republican. i'm delighted and i cheer every time i hear his comments. >> just to add onto that i want to read a quote. this is from the wall street journal. recent off the - - op-ed. he was writing, you can't blame trump for baltimore. president trump's brutish manners seems to obscure hardwood knowledge reality. he often has a point. >>. [laughter].i think that's

true. obviously, there are 63 million americans, last time we had an election, agreed with his analysis of president trump. people like somebody who hits back. i think that's one of his strengths. but sometimes you can overdo things. i wish that he'd be a little more careful, some of the time. not all the time. >> how did the heritage foundation, about what was your role? >> the heritage foundation was a miracle. in that the idea of two unknown congressional staffers - - it was the idea that no go.

it was the idea he wanted to produce timely, concise research. and to get it to people. people said that's an interesting idea but i'm not interested. so ed and paul tried for years to get somebody to get somebody to become interested and finance their idea. finally, they met joe coors. the best beer in america, as far as we are concerned. i'm sorry to say, i regret to say, i have nothing to do with the formation of heritage. but years later, i asked joe

coors. i said, why did you do it? $250,000 investing in this untested idea by two unknown congressional staffers. he said number one, they had a business plan. publications, printing, postage, telephones, so forth. secondly, they wanted to make a difference right away. not next year, not six months from now. right away. that's why i put up the money and i'm glad i did. >> - - has never been out front guy. why? >> he always presented himself as the head of something. but he said, what is important is to look at the organization. what is the think tank doing. how is it spending its money. what are its goals.

what does it learn about how to be a better and more efficient organization. let's be as much like a business as possible. i think because of his business training, - - example was very much out front. but ed didn't see it that way. is it put the focus on the organization, not the individual. >> conservatives tend to be old white men according to one of our callers earlier. >> that's extraordinary because the current president of the heritage foundation is african-american woman. and she's marvelous. charismatic. principles. reaching out to various groups.

she's making a difference. with the african-american community, already been taking a look at heritage and by association with the conservative movement. she is going to be an extraordinary game changer for us. already is. >> george's at bloomington, illinois. you are on with author lee edwards.>> i've been watching c-span since it originated in 1979. i've been watching mr. edwards over the years. i didn't realize he was up to 20 books. >> 20+.

>> i've watch programs going back to the original programs. i have a comment in regards to mr. buckley. [indiscernible] i'm particularly interested with respect to president trump's judicial nominations which are said to be 165. he still only halfway through his first term. mr. edwards, about president

trump have been right on. with everything he has said. sometimes i wish he would leave his twitter feed alone. but back to where i was, it seems to me that the true measure and long-term impact of this president. regardless if he gets reelected. i intend to vote for him again and so do most of us and my family. he continues to have a very long-term impact on the country's legal system. >> okay george. i think we got the point. let's get a response from lee edwards. >> i think he's right and that something conservatives

applaud. delighted with. he's actually right that not only the supreme court with two - - neil gorsuch and brett kavanaugh. before he's through, in his first term, it will be probably close to several hundred federal judges. what's important about that politically is that the republican majority in the senate has approved those. something that senator mcconnell deserves the credit. the long-term impact of that over the next 20-30 years is considerable and comes close to what ronald reagan did in the 1980s. >> donald in south bend, indiana. go ahead. >> hey, hi.

i initially called double ãi'm 57 years old. i remember the reagan era. one of the things that really upset me was this thing about the welfare queen. now i had no proof at the time when he was talking about it that it was not true. but i didn't really believe him. it then eventually was proven correct. it was proven wrong. the reason why i'm a democrat is because you know, to be a conservative. it's easy to be a conservative. and a republican. you guys use slogans. to get your base going. to be a democrat, you have to sit down and think things out.

that takes time for some people just don't have the time. because they are working. yet we work. and we are working, taking care of families and everything that we've got to come home and digest all thisstuff . >> donald, what do you do in south bend? >> okay, i'll tell you what i do. also i'm a proud union member. i'm a mailman. and i'm in - - member. that's another thing. the current president of the united states wants to pretty much - - the post office but we don't want that to happen. >> we are running a little short on time but i think we got his point.

>> ronald reagan was a union member. he was the first union leader elected president. so, of course he was a democrat for most of his life. he always felt when he switched to the republican party. that the democratic party, he had not left it but they had left him and he was comfortable in it. also, in terms of the welfare queen. i'm sorry to be argumentative, but reagan was correct. she was somebody that had worked the system for many different - - getting payments for different addresses and names. she did drive a big fancy car.

if anything, i'm not saying he underplayed her use of the welfare system. but she was somebody who did and was i believe, convicted and sent to jail. i want to be careful about that. maybe i shouldn't say that. but with regard to the charges he made. that she had taken advantage of the system to receive multiple checks with multiple sources of income. ronald reagan was correct about her. >> i will just tell donald, there's a new book out by josh levin. we've covered it on "goldwater" and it's about the queen. it's about that story. so if you're interested, you can go to booktv.org and look up the queen or josh levin and watch that program online.

you can watch any booktv program we have aired over the past 20 years online at booktv.org. before we say goodbye to you mr. edwards, we always ask our author what their favorite books are. one of the ones you list as your favorite, along with russell kirk and ernest hemingway. - - the wonderful wizard of oz. where did that come from and how does that fit in? >> thank you peter.love to talk about it. this was the first book i ever read. i was enchanted by. it was magical. it was so inviting, i wanted to move there. it had a happy ending.

wizard of oz ends with everybody happy. everyone achieving their goals. >> what's the story about the gold standard and the silver? >> that's just made up stuff. he wanted to enchant people and he did so and i was happy to say i was one of those fortunate. as thomas jefferson said, i cannot live without books. >> we want to show our viewers what lee edwards is currently reading. - - the divine plan.

call ken gore was our guest last month on "in depth". lee edwards has been our guest this month on "