talking about the cia 1970 mk ultra mind control problem. for more information, visit took tv.org. we kick off the weekend with new york times james stewart on the more investigation and the so-called deep state. >> good evening, everybody. i am brad. on behalf of everyone here, welcome. thank you very much for coming. we are really quite pleased to be hosting james stewart here this evening. familiar with his skills as an accomplished storyteller.

insight and detail. his reporting of financial scandals. political and legal affairs. a new york firm for several years. helping launch the magazine. the wall street journal. coverage in 1987. of the stock market crash. the downfall of the investment banker martin siegel. he left the journal to help establish smart money magazine. start writing for the new yorker for the past eight years he has been a columnist.

looking at the world of business a distinguished commentary in 2016. he is also a professor of business journalism at columbia university. he has written nine previous books. one grew out of his wall street journal coverage and delved into "the insider" trading scandal of the 1980s. bloodsport about the clinton white house and white house affair, blind eye about a doctor who was a serial killer, heart heart of a soldier in 2002 a single victim of the september 11 attack, disney ward 2005. his new book the handling of two

investigations that were going on during the 2016 campaign. the other one which we all learned about later was the investigation of links between russia and the trump campaign. donald trump investigation to some sort of sinister conspiracy by the deep state. nebulous network of career bureaucrats and intelligence agents. military officers and law enforcement officials on protecting their own power. is there anything legitimate about this claim or are the attacks simply acts of obstruction meant to cloak his own illegal conduct? these are are among the questions. he performs an important service

i just hope attorney general and anyone else who continues to tap the origins reads deep state. please join me in welcoming jim stewart. [applause] >> thank you. thank you for coming. thank you for having me. thank god we still have bookstores like this supporting authors like me who can still go out and get to the bottom of things without fear, without any influence, without threats to be put in jail. as you are going over my increasingly long biography, you left out take few things. three key characters in some way , haunted my journalistic career. they are rudy giuliani who i figured in my second book reappears and, yes, hillary

clinton who was a central figure in bloodsport. very prominently back. not as well known, i had a brief period covering none other than donald trump. i was working as a wall street journal reporter. this was in about 1985. omitted from trump's resume, he went through a brief and very unsuccessful. as a corporate raider. this is when he bought the trump shuttle airline. making threats and taking over other airlines. as a routine part of my job i called above and said, can i meet you. can i interview you. come see me, but it must be completely off the record. i went to the trump tower. i was shown into his office.

we worship -- we were chatting. so much for the completely secret meeting with me. she came in and he said, jane, i want you to meet -- this is so-and-so. she is the richest woman in the world. i thought the queen of england was the richest woman in the world, but who knew. he turned to heard that this is james stewart. he has the most famous journalist in america. at which point i knew she was not the richest woman in the world. [laughter] charming and funny and kind of a mean way. but at the same time, i remember that interview. i was down to do more reporting. i mentioned i had to leave to catch the plane. he said right on my trump

shadow. i will give you a free voucher. he said at least let my chauffeur drive you to the airport. i said, no, taxi, taxi is fine. a month after that, he was always trying to give me something. tickets to this. a helicopter flight to atlantic city. i'd no interest in going to atlantic city. i said no to all of these things a few months later, the wall street journal real estate reporter wrote a critical article about him and he stepped forward saying he took free tickets to the pride. he is all about leverage. i sensed out from day one. the background here is i is a journalist like to pursue mysteries. questions that do not have any obvious answer. as the runner-up in the 2016 election was was taking place, as you all know, james comey

stepped forward and said he was not recommending hillary clinton. he largely exonerated her. to reverse himself only days later. days later saying we didn't find anything. that utterly mystified me. i did not know at the same time that donald trump was being investigated for the plot with the russians. when that emerged, i wondered why we knew all about this hillary clinton investigation. we never heard of peace about donald trump in russia. i did not understand that. i knew james comey. he had been an attorney in manhattan. he prosecuted martha stewart. a case i wrote about. i was very mystified by this. in may of 2016, i then tried to

seek comey. the fbi by then was -- suddenly, no one was talking. i would go to the press office, but i could never talked to james comey. out of the blue, i got an invitation to give a speech to the fbi in washington on friday of the week of may 9. i said, oh, oh, yeah, definitely. i will come and do that. i will drop on comey and see if i can enlist his cooperation in this book i'm trying to do. i wake up to the news that james comey was fired. so much for my plan to slip into the fbi and talk about writing a book. i thought, am i still supposed to go down there?

do you want me to come talk? >> yes. yes yes. do come. i was there the friday after james comey was fired. it was horrible. people were completely shellshocked. everybody at the fbi is thrilled i got rid of him. nobody liked him there. people love me for doing this. i knew right away that was a preposterous idea. everybody i met was completely demoralized. i don't think many people paid attention. in a state of shock. that is when i knew for sure. whatever talk to me doesn't talk to me. i've got to do this book. these are historic events. that is when i really decided to start work on the book. it is, of course, there were many events that happened after that. the whole whole molar

investigation. all of that is in the saga. the other reason i like to write books is i love to read books. i love a good story. it is a great story. love trump or hate trump, he is a great character. even though he did not agree to talk to me for this book, he tweets all the time. his voice, his unfiltered voice does emerge in the pages of the story. the other characters are on a political level, but also a human level. very compelling characters. the conflict really is between comey and trump. i cannot imagine two characters that are more different. i described trump as loose. i think that might be a complementary term. comey is sometimes criticized for being overly virtuous.

they are such polar opposites that i'm amazed david got through that first dinner without comey even quitting. there are a number of very important questions that i hope this saga helps to explain in a way that americans will trust. i am not a political reporter. i worked for the wall street journal which most people consider to be a conservative paper. i have worked for the new york times. i grew up in the world midwest where half the people were democrats and half were republicans. there was a real two-party system. i was raised to do what is best for the american people. don't look only at your best interest. the two biggest role models for me were probably abraham lincoln, he was on the license plate in illinois and the

greatest the state has ever produced. across the river where i grew up is the home of mark twain. one of the great storytellers of american literature. i sometimes when reading a book skip -- i want to read this to you because i love it so much. patriotism is supporting your country all the time. and your government when it deserves it. guess what. donald trump tweeted that saying in 2014 before he was president. now anybody who does not support him is part of the deep state. you would have thought this

would have been laid to rest by now. when trump renounced his election campaign a few months ago, he spent part of the speech talking about the accomplishments of his first administration. the crowd showed no interest whatsoever. all of a sudden he decided he can read a crowd very well. within a few minutes again they were all chanting lock her up. lock her up. the hillary clinton story lives on. let me assure you, hillary clinton investigated by the fbi. very thoroughly. strange reemergence of the e-mails on the laptop. a highly dramatic story.

in the end, there is no question that classified information did move on an unprotected server through hillary clinton's blackberry. it was probably negligent to have done that. i can barely cope with two or three e-mail accounts. i would not have wanted another one either. i believe her when she said it was just for convenience. there was never a shred of evidence that said she herself knew any of this information had been transmitted. let's say for the benefit of argument that maybe she did. there were people in the fbi the felt she could have been charged. let's say you really wanted to push it or bring charges. mishandling classified information are many. all involving men. there was an egregious example involving gonzales who is the attorney general under president

bush. guess what. none of these people were ever charged under the statue. there are a handful of other cases that are misdemeanor which resulted in no prison term. a slap on the wrist. no government official had ever been charged under the statute. what would have happened if the fbi decided to recommend charges against hillary clinton at the time she was the first woman candidate for the presidency. there would have been an incredible and justifiable uproar at this. by the way, james comey was very consistent with this. he never charged martha stewart with insider trading. although he could have. he did not want to be attacked for bringing novel charges against a successful woman. there would have been a massive

uproar. charging hillary clinton then. i think that there really could be no serious disagreement if the right result was reached in that case. i want to say something else about hillary. i was very critical. so much so they have not spoken to me since then. how did mrs. clinton respond when she became the subject of a publicized fbi investigation of potentially criminal conduct. did she call it a witch hunt? no. did she attack the prosecutor and impugn their integrity? no. hillary clinton behaved the way most innocent people do when they are charged. they trust in the system. they provide evidence. they answer all the questions anyone had to ask. she turned over tens of thousands of those e-mails for

examination. i would contrast the way that trump responded when he became the subject of the rush investigation. a very interesting question. it unfolds in the page of the story. remember the sequence of events. july 5 he said we are not recommending any charges. trump trying to keep it alive. it didn't have legs. suddenly in october, how bizarre is that. hillary clinton's top aide put the emails on her husband's laptop. her husband is engaging in illegal sexual activity with minors and it all comes out. you could not make any of this up. through these bizarre facts, suddenly there were only two emails that had to be investigated. comey for reasons you will see

in the book. he was reopening that. one reason he did that was because there was a hard-core of anti-hillary fbi agents in the new york office. everyone in new york knew it had been found. i can tell you with 100% certainty, if comey would not have made that announcement, it would have leaked. if it emerge through the media and leaked that this had been uncovered and the american people had not been told. i remember being at a board meeting in the midwest. 60% of the people in the room were moderate republicans. having a hard time coming to terms voting for donald trump. it was like a cold wind swept through the room. i could tell the feelings against hillary just crystallized. nate silver did a very in-depth

survey to show how just a few key both in states like pennsylvania, wisconsin could have shifted it. he concluded that the comey announcement really was the determining factor. the fact is, we will never know. we cannot go back and rerun the election. i think to blame it all on james comey -- the unfortunate fact for hillary clinton is, when it was reopened, she had a decades long history of being accused of self-serving, at times, illegal behavior. still questions about whitewater questions about the white house. questions about how she covered up her husband. this narrative. that was not comey's fault.

days later, he was able to exonerate once again. the media shows very little interest. i demonstrate here that after the e-mails were first found, that was the lead story a major network news for six out of the next seven days. when he announced that it was now closing and they had not found anything on the e-mails, it was not the lead story in a single news outlet. the lead story that day was that a group of people had rushed trump at a rally after someone had yelled the gun in a crowd. a story that nobody would remember except for the fact that they went and looked at backup. that overshadowed clinton's exoneration. i don't think you can blame that on comey. was he wrong to take matters into his own hands?

that is why he had to then make the announcement all over again. the reasons for that are fascinating. you see it in context in the narrative. i think that that is probably the most controversial thing that he did. i would have urged him not to do it. at the time, he was very concerned that the american people would feel a verdict rendered was partisan and not be fair. there was reason for that. loretta lynch had said a few things that made him suspicious. president obama had dismissed it as not a significant investigation. the thing that really put him over the edge when bill clinton barged on loretta lynch is playing, sat there and stay there for 35 minutes. that became public.

he had intervened with his wife investigation. i do have, i believe, the most detailed account of what actually happened on that airplane. my heart goes out to loretta lynch. she is a very nice person. a very polite lady. just when she thought she was going to get them off, she cleared the bags away and spent another 15 minutes talking. unfortunately, the parents were so bad. it went on for so many days about how he had intervened. that is what really made them think he came forward to do it. you cannot really quarrel with the motive. i have to wonder, i am sure bill

clinton was not consciously trying to sabotage his wife's campaign. if he was, this was the single thing he could have done to do it. okay. one of the central characters is the general. he was the longest-serving u.s. attorney in the country. he has been the u.s. attorney for maryland in baltimore. somebody asked comey what he thought. he is a survivor. rosenstein was also highly respected. considered to be very independent. he stepped in to a justice department and a white house

that was so untethered from standard norms of behavior from the rule of law that you see in these pages he became increasingly unnerved. you may recall that sessions recused himself from russia which met rosenstein was now in charge. trump decides impulsively he is going to fire comey. he calls people into the white house. i'm going to fire comey. don't try to talk me out of it. he bring sessions and rosen then rosenstein said he mishandled the clinton administration. trump immediately perks up. can you write me a memo? critical of comey and the clintons. he hands it back to the white house. all of a sudden, trump, who had already decided to fire comey for reasons completely unrelated

grabs a memo and says, yes, this is a reason he must be fired. the white house white house press corps went out and said the justice department insisted that comey be fired because of the way he handled the clinton investigation. and then trump called up rosenstein and said i want you to go out and do a press conference and say you were the one that insisted comey be fired because of the clinton thing. at this point rosenstein is incomplete shock. it was not because of the clintons that trump wanted to fire comey. it was not his idea. to his credit, he refused to do it. trump had to get sessions to pressure him. no. that is a false narrative. days later, rosenstein calls andrew mccabe over. he has become the active fbi director since comey was fired. ii want to read a brief passage.

talking about something relative and oculus. i report as follows. rosenstein -- his eyes look glossy, his voice wavering, his eyes. up. he said he could not believe what was happening. the white house was making it look as if it was his idea to fire comey. the president asked him to write the memo only after he found out he was firing cold me. mccabe shocked. essentially calling the president a liar. they barely knew each other. he wanted to be compassionate. are you okay? no. are you getting getting any sleep? no. is your family okay? there were news trucks parked outside of his house. his wife and family were upset.

there is no one here i can talk to about this. there is no one that i can trust. he seemed to be struggling to hold his emotions in check. he asked if mccabe thought he should appoint a special counsel. mccabe said yes. it would be a good idea. he always considered jim comey is a friend and mentor. someone he looked up to. the one person i wish i could talk to is jim comey. good luck with that. this is a guy he just fired. there is a sequence of events where rosenstein offers to wear a wire to secretly record the president. by the end of the molar investigation, he is the new person. he has survived. two occasions where the department said that he had fired him. he goes to the white house. he comes out. as soon as the molar report is delivered, he and the new attorney general rushed to his

aid. trump has been exonerated. there is no crime. there is no obstruction of justice case to be made. this is not what the molar report said. the molar report was far more damning than anything that barring rosenstein was willing to say. this is a classic example of well-intentioned bureaucrats who get into the trump orbit. drawn into this web of falsehood of irresponsible, if not illegal behavior. and then asked to protect the president. rosenstein lied about the wire in the 25th amendment. trump had leverage over him to fire him whenever he wanted. >> i just want to address the issue of the deep state. trump has again just this week accused the whistleblower of being part of the deep state.

people who have helped the whistleblower being part of the deep state. people in the white house who told the whistleblower what was happening as being part of the deep state. i could just read the end of the book. he has not set it explicitly, but he has implied that the punishment for trader should be as it has been sometimes in the past, the death penalty. i want to say this. its origin is from the middle east. turkey, egypt. bureaucratic complex from time to time to step in and overthrow sometimes the elected leader more often the dictator running a country in order to preserve their own powers and privileges. in the united states, the concept has been more recently used in another variation on the military industrial complex. the deep state was traditionally considered to be primary people

on wall street. the big bang. goldman sachs. the lobbyists in washington. the large corporations. the big technology companies. that is how it was translated in the context. trump has now weapon isa. >> i never thought i would see the day where republican president turned on the law enforcement communities and granted them as enemies of the people. that is what has happened. comey said something very important and profound to me. he had never heard the state deep state until trump started using it. men and women of the fbi and justice department who have devoted their lives to serving the american people, who have taken an oath to uphold the

united states constitution and to do not work for the president of the united states and specifically this president, thank god we have a deep state. these are important checks on the powers of the executive branch is here. one of those checks are bureaucrats are appointed people, career civil servants. it doesn't matter whether they are republicans or democrats. their duty is uphold the law, support the constitution. when you have a whistleblower whistleblower coming forward, when you have a james comey standing up to the president telling him he can't do something like that, you have the essence of what the constitutional system calls upon him to do. i think that the deep state is something we can all sleep easier knowing is in place. i say good for them. i welcome your questions. thank you. [applause]

i think everyone who wants to ask a question can come up to this microphone. >> i am a retired member of the deep state. i worked for the federal government for 20 years. did you look into the origins of the russia investigation? it seems to me that the theory is the i tell you professor was supposed to be working for the cia when he gave his information about the e-mails. why hasn't anybody noticed that the information he gave was true and could have only come from russia? >> as you may all know, the origin is now subject of another major investigation. the attorney general himself traveling around the world

trying to gather evidence. why the attorney general is involved in a day today investigation is unprecedented and completely unknown to me. i don't mean to just be plugging myself, but i wish you would would just read the book. it is not a mystery on how this began. it was originated from the australian ambassador in the united kingdom who heard from papadopoulos that he had this information. he gave it to the government in australia. he did nothing with it. they sat on it. it was only when they turned out that the russians really did have these hacked emails that prove that the intelligence was correct that australia transmitted this. may i remind you, australia is one of the closest allies of the united states.

the intelligence community of australia, new zealand, the united kingdom and america have traditionally worked very closely together. they know each other. they trust each other. we are not talking about some rogue operated out there. there was nothing nefarious about the origin of the investigation. may i remind you, even when this information came in, trump was not the named subject. some people thought he should be. he was not. the fbi people he is now accusing to be out to get him did not make him a subject of the investigation. surely it would have ended his campaign. he only became a subject after he recklessly fired comey and then lied about it and then acted like he will shut the whole thing down and fire mccabe. you make a very good point. >> thank you. >> nobody there. >> there is somebody there.

[laughter] >> i cannot wait to read the book. thanks for doing this. i am really looking forward to it. i do question about hillary clinton that you might answer in the book. regarding the e-mails, you make the point to justify not filing criminal charges over criminal investigation. she moved all of these e-mails onto a private server. it always seemed really troubling to me. particularly considering the clinton foundation and all the activities going on with that. i'm not trying to do this crazy deep state conspiracy kind of thing. was that element troubling to you. the fact that she would move it to a private server or do you

think that decision was ultimately justified in some of the skepticism and suspicion are unwarranted? she didn't move it onto a private server. it was always on a private server. this grew out of endless ben ghazi hearing. they wanted to get her state department e-mails. that is when they discovered her emails were on a private server. there were the numbers in the book. she did not personally do it. her lawyers were allowed to go through those e-mails and delete or segregate what was considered purely personal e-mails. was she going to yoga class. when was she meeting her daughter for dinner. things like that. they removed that. one of the ongoing questions has been, do they really hide some

things that should've been turned over. that is one of the things that was interesting about what showed up on the laptop. those were not gone over by the clinton lawyers. they had access to all of those. it was maybe 30 or 50,000. it was an enormous number. there was maybe one or two exceptions. they did not find anything of significance in there. there is no evidence yet that clinton withheld anything of relevance to the inquiry. >> i wonder if you have an opinion of the mystery of bill barr. barr had a reputation of being a moderate conservative. and in -- how did this

transformation happened? >> that is a very good question. barr is a character in the book. a few significant things about him. he wrote an editorial after comey made his announcement about clinton praising comey and praising the decision. a little-known fact. sessions came under repeated attack from trump. you see here, there are a lot of people who thought sessions was not qualified for the position. putting that aside, no one deserves to be humiliated repeatedly the way trump did him. largely because he was mad. recused himself from the russia investigation. it was clear. that is when barr writes this praising trump cannot be anything as he is president. he has auditioning for the job and he submits that to the white

house. he acknowledges only time he has ever sent an unsolicited memo was to the justice department. he then gets the job. he said in his hearing, i have already been attorney general. i don't need to do that again. attorney general is a very good job. it is a powerful job among other things. have you ever been in their offices in the justice department? they have their own dining room. they have a whole suite of offices. they have their own airplane they can fly around on. they have enormous power. it is an incredible job. i think he desperately wanted that back. how do you keep a job like that? you do what trump wants. the whistleblower came forward. he filed the proper channels.

all handed to the justice department. the proper course would have been for bard to give it to the fbi. and then make a decision whether there was a crime committed or further action was needed. he never gave it to the fbi. he immediately said there was no crime here. that is preposterous. i think that it has left the congress and the democratic house with no alternative but to investigate this. we cannot rely anymore on the investigative agencies to do their job. when i talk about the danger of ignoring the rule of law, this is what i'm talking about. yes independent agencies set to the will of the president. i am very disappointed in bar. today, as you may have known, to associates of rudy giuliani were arrested. this is in operation being run by the u.s. attorney in

manhattan. traditionally independent agency as all the offices are. they are appointed by the president. they answer to the attorney general. i don't think that they would dare fire this u.s. attorney. i applaud him for being there and doing something that i was afraid barr would never do. the deep state strikes again. >> did you say all you wanted to say? did you talk about them in the book? >> i do show this. auditioning for the part. his handling of the mueller report was disgraceful. he immediately said, of course, he was exonerated on russia. all they really found -- he then said, correctly, mueller had not

reached a conclusion on obstruction. he then said you cannot charge obstruction unless there was an underlying crime. that is number one false. the opposite of what mueller says in the mueller report. it was so egregious that mueller , i don't even need to tell you who is more tightlipped than mueller. his nickname was bob say nothing mueller. i frankly don't think that he should. i think he should be commenting and explaining some of this. he wrote a letter saying that barr had mischaracterized the mueller report. that got some publicity. i don't think people realize that. i think it is worth pondering for a moment why it is obstruction of justice which includes perjury and tampering of witnesses.

it cannot apply to only people that are guilty of the crime. you cannot find out as someone is guilty of someone is running around intimidating everyone. it is a chicken and egg thing. the innocent and the guilty must be subject to the same obstruction of justice laws. this is so obvious to me. i cannot believe that barr had the nerve to take the opposite position. only a few extreme lawyers that would agree with him. >> my brother is a conservative who has forgotten he was a communist. how do you feel the extradition of a solid will play out? it sounds like different parts of the united states government want him here or be frightened of what he could say in situations in the future. >> i cannot really answer that. i am not an expert. but, i do not think that there

is any doubt that this administration will bring all the powers that they have down on him. they don't like leaks. they want to punish leaguers. they want to string them up and hang them in the town square. make sure anyone else is whistleblowing doesn't come forward in the future. i think they will do everything they can to make an example out of him. >> why do you think rosenstein did write that memo about comey to trump? >> i think like many people who get drawn into the trump orbit, he was asked to do it. trump is his boss so you want to please the boss or carry out the exercise. it is hard to believe that he did not see how trump might use it. this is what many people, i think, have been surprised by.

he goes back and does his homework. he writes his report. he brings it in and then what did he think trump was going to do with it? use it as bedtime reading? i don't think so. but he did seem truly and genuinely stunned that trump seized upon it and then made it the sole basis for firing comey. putting all the blame for getting rid of comey on rosenstein. i cannot reconcile that. he has been a u.s. attorney for decades. he understands what evidence is and how that document was going to be used. he also, it turned out, trump wrote a long memo when he was at the golf club a previous weekend when he explained the real reason to get rid of comey. he had given a copy of that memo

to rosenstein. that is why rosenstein knew he was lying. it had nothing to do with clinton. you will see in the pages here, a few days later when he so shocked by this, he gave a copy of that to mccain. locked it in a safe to preserve it as evidence because that was written, the real reasons that trump was firing comey. it remains today documentary proof that all the statements about clinton, about why rosenstein were all lies. i think rosenstein wanted that memo in safe hands to protect him from any future accusations he was the one behind the firing of comey. [inaudible]

did the resignation and timing of justice kennedy strike me as being strange in anyway? i have not done any independent reporting on that. there is some evidence that it was orchestrated to pave the way for a particular nominee. we may never know the whole truth about that. [inaudible] what did i think of trump saying to justice kennedy, say hello to your boy meaning his former clerk. look, he should not have said

it. that will be exhibit a. if there was some kind of quick pro quote here. do i need to tell you that trump says things he should not say? let me say this about the whistleblower. somebody the other day asked if i wish i would've waited a few months i could write write about the whistleblower. not really. what happened there is so predictable from the events in this book. just read the last few pages. you will see the whistleblower coming miles away. after putting the country through years of turmoil, trump seems to have learned only one thing. he thinks he was exonerated. he was totally vindicated. he did nothing wrong. he doubled down. the reason there was no crime is because they did not find evidence that trump himself either instigated or participated in a direct conspiracy. dealing with ukraine. asking ukraine to do it.

he hands them the one missing piece of evidence from the russia case. it is astonishing. actually learning anything from the previous investigation? he only lives in a binary world of winners and losers. keep up the good work. do more of it. >> and watergate, robert redford these people really are not as smart as you think they are. running the white house. i was just wondering if any of the people that presently run the world ever bothered to even study watergate or pay any attention to watergate? how these things keep repeating themselves is beyond me.

>> there is a little scene in the book where one of the fbi agent says, you know, i think i should go back and read that book. [laughter] in terms of the skill level, the intelligence, what i can say is all of the people who restrained trump, you see them in the course of deep state, agree or disagree with their politics, but don mcgann is probably the untold hero of the story. probably should have been down on bended knee. sessions, widely criticized for his performance as attorney general. has sense enough to not fire mueller. same with rosenstein. even corey lee when doused key. trump says go tell session

siesta fire mueller. if he doesn't, i am firing him. he managed to never do it. all of these people are out. he now has white house county council. attorney general seeming to do exactly what trump wants. that is a dangerous situation. >> i thought that we could wait until the election. now i am starting to worry. what could this guy doing a year before the election. >> we will have to see how this all unfolds. impeachment is a political process. it is not in a legal proceeding. it is not held to the standards of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. the facts is it's going to go on it is absolutely essential. that is why it is so important that the president does not allow that.

whether you impeach or not, the electric, the american people need to know what is happened here. all of the voters need to be able to make up our minds whether this indicates that someone it honors the rule of law. when we do come around to voting next year. that is why think that this process is extremely important. >> entertain a little controversy? imminent is the release of the inspector general's report on the fbi's role in this matter, particularly comey as well as the doj. i strongly suspect that it will be quite different than your own conclusions and opinions with respect of those parties. premonitions as to what this will reveal. >> more than premonitions. many of the people were sources

of my book. they've been interviewed by the inspector general, understandably. they no longer believe that he is fair. they were very upset about his report on the clinton emails. all of them have told me that it is going to be highly critical of the fbi and of comey because they believe that is what the white house wants. that is what the attorney general wants. the inspector general is independent, but he works for bar now. he is known to be very close to grassley in the senate. >> i think that he has been highly regarded through his career. i have not seen the report, obviously.

i know there are concerns of people that a been interviewed by him. so many people drawn into the trump orbit. he is not the person today than he was when he was first appointed and the pressures bearing down on him are very intense. he originally said he would release the report in may. i was hoping i could finish my manuscript so i could absorb that in use some of the material. it became clear to me that he was going back. someone had said this was not good enough. go back to the well. get more. find something on these people. if he actually find something, i will be be very, very surprised. who knows. maybe he's got something that i don't know about. >> how much damage do you think has been done to the fbi, the cia, the state department? >> enormous damage has already been done.

it is very worrisome to me. these are institutions that have been built up over decades. they are being obliterated in a matter of a few years. i've talked to a lot of fbi people. you don't work for the government for the money. the fbi particularly has been long held -- i mean, they've they've had their problems. i am not saying they've never behaved. by and large, they have been held up. trustworthy people. people you should tell the truth too. we will tell the truth to you. suddenly, they are the enemies. they are the deep state. they are being humiliated. they are being fired in many cases. then they are being investigated for crimes. mccabe has a grand jury sitting on him right now. call me. they launched a criminal investigation against him.

he was exonerated, but he had to go through that. now there is a criminal investigation of mueller. it is not enough to just criticize these people. you have to hire lawyers. it is expensive. the thread of the prosecution hanging over you is terrible. a lot of good people are leaving. they are demoralized. they are upset. why should they put up with this how will we get really good people to come in there? i think that ray is so far doing a really good job. i think the bar example is disparaging as we have seen in recent days. do you think that there is a chance that trump might try to pardon himself? or giuliani? or any of these? >> i think anything is possible with trump.

you will see that he is constantly dangling from the people that are under investigation. to keep them from testifying against him. it is one of the more plaintive aspects of the charge. he is the president. pardoning himself, that is kind of maybe pushing it pretty far. i would not put anything beyond that. >> whatever happens beyond that. that would not surprise me. >> thank you so much. i really appreciate it. [applause] .... ....

>> later in november, the national book awards will be presented in new york city and we'll be live from the miami book fair on november 23rd and 24th. to find more information about upcoming book fairst and festivals and to -- fairs and festivals, click the book fairs tab on our web site, booktv.org. >> hello. my name is conor moran, i'm the director of the wisconsin book festival. thank you all so much for being here tonight. i believe this is the seventh of eight events in this room. it is also the 30th out of 32 events just today in the third day of the wisconsin book festival, so thank you so much. i've seen many of you all day, so thankis you. [applause] i couldn't be more pleased to be introducing meg