another teenage in jim crow alabama. so my mother left her use through the white nationalist society and its comeback. it has reared its head again. >> the most recent book is a letter to my son. other books include profits and me we forever stand. join the interactive conversation with your phone calls and facebook messages. ..

>> i think officials from michigan, southern california, and new york city.

[inaudible conversations] and it's a pleasure to have you it is an organization that represents city towns and villages in america and today thank you for being here thbecause with the 34th annual school conditions report each person in that room is here for a reason in cities all

over america perhaps you enjoy a digging into data of the community i want to hear about what they are dealing with issues in the federal impact of those issues you just want to make sure you're in the right place at the right time owhat america will be dealing with the fiscal impact of our economy for go for all of these reasons it is about the connection between the needs of the communities and local government leaders to address those in the community and i'm

often asked why it's such an important report it really is because if you think about what is happening in the city halls and towns and communities in america town leaders and village leaders dealing with those issues at first. so this year fiscal conditions report for all cities and communities are not the same across the nation with different issues and challenges to break that out some choose between resurfacing main street or repairing an oldtw fire truck or

they may have to decide between reforming health care or retirement system or public safety budget these are what leaders deal with everyday and unfortunately the reality of dealing with these issues are part of governance and leadership. my hope is all of us who support these cities and towns and villages across the country contribute to sharing this information you will learn today but also what is your role to make our communities better as a person and leader in your professional life? we will do a deep dive into the report into a panel of experts with the managing

partner focusing t on cities from axioms. so what is actually in the report to understand the others are christine mcfarland the research director. [applause] in my coos dean of urban college planning at university of chicago. so welcome to the national league of cities what is going on in our nation. thank you may thank you for

being here another year. so how many of you read this in the past couple of years cracks that is pretty much all of you. i know you have heard those headlines but really those fiscal conditions and the trends that we see that they areif slow-moving ships. and then to go back to the drawing board.

and those over the past 34 years and then also what we see now and those conditions at the time. so i want to take somesu time to talk about working with finance officers around the country and positive and negative. and those finance officers to have that tangible fiscal information. and what the national league will supplement that data so

we are very proud of the report. and with uic and with that we will jump right. in. and then to begin to align with those economic trends. and that revenues are not only slowing the budgeted to decline and then to allocate revenue and then tushar show signs of weakening. especially in the midwest paraguay will turn it over to mike who will go into a deep dive of general fund revenues and expenditures they make you can see with this graphic. first of all this should be

-underscore general funds it is in all funds but just the general fund and the composition and the purpose of varies from city to city. but the most part it is the discretionary budget of the municipality to support police services and public safety and transportation and everything else. but what it does not tend to include the capital improvement fund and certainly not the enterprise but for the most part it does account for somewhere in the neighborhood of 55 percent of all municipalities. it's most of what is in the news media where the city council has the biggest debates.

with year-to-year changes in constant dollar terms we use what the euro we can out one - - economic analysis uses and to reduce those current dollars and then you can see on this graphic the year over year changes of expenditures of the general fund. if you look on the right side of this. that expenditures are fairly robust 4 percent in 2015 to about 3 percent the last couple years and then they have been declining year-over-year basis. when they were in decline year over year growth has been less.

>> but the point i want to make that in the great recession but the fiscal recession really hits primarily because of the lag of property tax receipts by a couple of years. the revenue line really plummets by 2010 to be about 5 percent less than the priort' year. and with that fiscal position of the municipalities today is if you add up the changes of the general fund over the last several years, we have not returned or maybe we have returned to the position for the first year that the general fund sizes what it was prior to the great recession. it has taken a long time for that municipality fiscal position to return to what it was 14 years ago.

>> that fiscal connection between the municipalities have revenue-generating mechanisms and the growth of the underlying economies and the statistic. >> because there was such a great response night and then looking more specifically so the green dollar signs are the revenues representing

expenditures but in all regions across there country however the midwest see some extreme decline at around 4 percent. so looking at population. and fy 18 drew the smaller midsized. and those that saw the steepest rise. and through those general factors on other cities including healthcare and other sources. >> this is an important chart to show. and to be associated with the

perennial season and we always get the question can you compare this city to that city?s so that depends they don't have access to the same type of general taxing authority as others. there are very few in the tentire country with the broad-based from retail sales on real estate. you will hear from one of those and it's also the city of new york and also has large general fund of $93 billion then just to overwhelm the data. and that volatility of each of those sources and how they

change to the national economy. and not surprisingly to drop pretty dramatically and then by 2014 and 2015 around five or 6 percent but even though there is a positive growth rate with those tax sources but they have slowed rather considerably. so all of the other data that we pull from those reports. they may not reflect what

happens but it's pretty close. but but maybe they are hovering around 1 percent growth. with the measure of a national economy. and in those other cases and needs in property taxes is not as large as he might havege expected given the growth of the economy. so consumers know what affects the condition of state and local governments that reports on housing are all over the place.

and it hasn't been as robust post- recessionary years is pretty recessionary years. and the veryba cautious market of real estate and it has much to do with the real state or property tax numbers. and that and then to see that growth the purchasing of real estate that is the average across the board. and then and then to see both to struggle of growth.

>> that is important those terms of the variation. and that impacts property tax uerevenue particularly in that the midwest reported fy 18 and revenue growth. and not on theon here but it talks about the differences by population. that the largest cities going into 2019 with property taxes. and with those finances going forward. and then the ability to meet

like we have seen a lot of variation over the years. particularly looking at three quarters that those communities are better this year than last. and to talk about the prospect for next year. >> what it isnt interesting it is thisud year's budget so what you think of the next year. and of those that profit next year. and then to be optimistic but those are strong in the cfo. >> and then you have to question when the next recession will occur.

and that isil striking. and those budget directors over the next one or two years. and the source of this information coming from those day out those that have access to resources than other cities may have but then it isn't necessarily they are putting a recession into the forecast going forward but the variable to inform the model tells them that in the next one or two years they will start seeing declines. and then those fewer finance

officers in the next. >> this is an interesting question with everybody's crystal ball trek eventually there will be a downturn or if it isxp more moderate or the recession of 1991 or larger and with those stagflation periods. and then how they prepare for it in the important take away for this. and then getting differences in the last graphic just based on the size of the staff that you have that can take the time and look through into the

future what does the future look like? are just trying to get through the end of the month with payroll. so credit is the capacity. >> we don't know when the next downturn is there are very abilities across different regions and in your experience what have you seen to prepare for the recession based on the prior recession quick. >> wet you used to publish we do continuee to track for the states and municipalities are the reserves and how they have

changed over time. it is a nice way of looking at how cities maintain that expenditurep level even if there is a decline in revenue. and from the early eighties a continuous growth of the percentage of reserves as a percentage of expenditures. they are not spending all that they have which is smart and prudent but it is in anticipation of something so to talk to the mayor's and manager managers. we better hold on until the states come back on his. the second thing is that they do not want to go but some only want to capture those

facilities but i think what we are seeing this year as a percentage of expenditures that cities are well positioned in the underlying economy. but it also gives an opportunity because there some growth in that revenue to maintain and repair infrastructure and use that as a cash cow to move those onto our grandchildren. also to make annual contributions tond a pension fund. so there are those that are challenged but this is the time when you do have reserves of that magnitude to transfer

those over into the pension fund. but also we were talking about the needs of communities to address a homeless population. so now is the time to think how you can sustain that over time. >> with that that concludes the report overview position to open a few questions from the audience they should be specific to the report and the data you will have an opportunity to have more conversational dialogue raise your hand and state your name and who you are with. >>.

>> in terms of the breakout , how much did the attacks revenue be influenced by that stark drop? is there thought of pulling out the midwest in particular with that aspect to have a different outcome? >> we have a sizable number of respondents from the midwest. clearly that affected those results overall be thought it was important. we didn't do the general trend line but we did show the

original breakout. >> and to make a difference mathematically. if you wear if you think of where they are located in that there are few were in the midwest in the census region than in the other regions. >> so with large cities and that they are included in the data because we are looking at aggregate numbers across themb budget. obviously more cities would weigh more heavily. >> so questions about the next recession and what they thought with previous reports

like this and how they good they are predicting. >> this is the first year we ask that question but the other question that we ask is around there. so you can see pretty close around that recession you can see some pretty significant to meet those financial needs when it is declining as a result. so that would be good as well. >> you made reference to the

earlier recession caused by the.com bust and the housing bubble. but this seems to be based on general trends but nothing in particular to drive that. particular to a drive that. thost earlier recessions? . . . . or slowdown.

>> i think probably in terms of uncertainty but if we are looking at some of these general trends, and what of the declines we were seeing started in 2015 again but slower growth is starting in 2015. so it may be that sort of general economic conditions are not -- are sort of underway. >> natalie cohen, national municipal research. i was a little surprised that the slowdown in sales tax collections. what happened to the internet sales taxle search? >> i think we will hear a little bit about that on the panel. my sense is that it has not been the cash cow the cities were hoping for but also there is the

reality not all cities collect sales taxes. a good chunk of them do but not all of them do. so i think that is to be determined. >> city of gaithersburg council. so, one ofil the things that affected municipalities and state governments, state revenues most clearly in the last couple of years with the changes in the tax laws, tax cuts, deductibility is, state and local taxes have a big impact on revenue but also i'm planning both of the stat at thl and fiscal level. have you addressed this and then a second question follow-up is one of the traditional responses to the recession for congress to cut taxes yet again. can you address both of those questions? >> i know in the previous survey we have asked about the budget directors what do you feel is an

impact on your budget as a result of the federal tax reform and advanced refunding was at the top and continues to be a challenge. in terms of the second question. >> i don't think we really know the answer to the first question because the cities and states have not responded as vigorously aste i expected them to and maye because it is expected to take a time or two or higher income taxpayers and heidi doctors to realize that i'm paying more and i'm not getting whatever it but it's costing me more. i'm not sure that that's happened yet. >> i think we've will take one more question and then we will need to wrap it up. >> excellent. thank you so much. i really appreciate your time and attention here today. thank you mike. >> thank you, christy. >> i would like tois introduce e panel. kim hartro will be the managing

editor from ask the host and the budget director from new york city dan gilmartin ceo from the michigan in a civil league. welcome. thank you. costco okay. thank you very much for going through that to get us started and we will just jump right in. when i read this report last week the biggest take away to me was that question that this was the first time asking which was when do e you expect to be a recession on the horizon and that is the difference between a big cities and small cities but also on the flipside, you see pe hee kind of counterintuitive finding which is cities that still seem fairly optimistic that they will be able to meet the needs of the cities and in some ways big cities even though they are more pessimistic than there smaller ones are in theory better prepared to weather ath

downturn at least a short one like that. so, i wanted to just open up the panel and get us talking about we have a great set of panelists here who come from different set of circumstances and the cities that theynt work in the regions they work and they are seeing different economic realities on the ground. starting with you, lucky you get to sit right next to me and you are from new york city so therefore is a very different budgetary solutions and our peers over here. can you tell uss about what you are seeing as being the biggest city in the country, but you have also weathered several -- you are part of working the city government during the recession months time. you've been there for a couple different administrations. can you tell us what you see on the ground? >> first, the clarify the general fundl budget was 93. the total funding budget if i

had $93 billion i would be in a very good place. [laughter] the federal fund budget is $63 million. looking at all of my colleagues here it is very different but i think generally speaking what we are seeing, and i would love -- the budget director from philadelphia pointed out whoever the forecasters w predicting recession would hire him right away. [laughter] i think we are not predicting a recession and our economic forecast as we look to actually update our budget for what is our next course of the update in november, but we are seeing an actual slowdown of revenues. so, our growth year-over-year with your forecasting is starting to slow. we are also coming off of a very unique year with personal income tax where we had a significant one-time increase and so it is starting to overall normalize,

but just to get a bigger picture, we are seeing a slowdown. the i think i'm like many others do have the ability to pull on a number of different tax revenues. our sales taxes and slowing down. we are seeing an increase in and we have property taxes that makes it about 45% of our total general fund revenue and transactions tax and mortgage tax i could go on and on but it's very diverse and very unique to many of you that you don't have those revenue sources available to you. but the other thing we. have ben doing just as we have been planning for a slowdown and as mike said, at some point it hast to come and we have been doing this since the beginning of the administration which is constantly asking the agencies. so even in times when we have significant revenue coming in and when we did have the personal income tax jump we still ask the agencies to look up your budget and see if they

can get efficiencies and savings. so over the course of the last fiscal year $23 billion we got in savings and we took the headcount down from agencies and asked them to do more with less. the other thing we have been doing with the city council is increasing our general reserves so now a total of 6 billion. 4.5 billion of that is the retiring trust for health benefits for retirees and the balance is in our general fund, then we actually increase incret with the council as we adopted our budget for this coming fiscal year by 260 million. so, it's a combination of us being very conservative about where we are going with our revenues as the circus with a slowdown but also the extent despite increasing general revenues and reserves and asking for savings. >> even though you are asking for those reserves, are you seeing expenditures increased? >> like anyone will tell you

that is a budget director, you've got your pension costs increasing, retiree health-care costs increasing, you are seeing labor. when we came in, the administration came in because of the fire at demonstrations and the challenges they were not able to settle a labor contracts cost of any of the labor contracts were stillon outstan outstanding. we are now a poin at a point wee settled about 65% of all of our. labor contracts and we are still going through that, but those are just general cost increasest increases of the debt service. there is another big factor during the great recession there was a lot of cut back on capital spending. the capital plan over ten years is prettyth significant. it's 110 so that is another area that you will see the service is catching up. so there's still cost increases but that's why it's important to continually ask for savings to help offset that as well as setting asidet the reserves.

>> turning over to you from the opposite side of the country and also the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of the city size as well and in california tell us what you are seeing in terms of the western states and what they are seeing. >> i think for us, first of all thank you for the opportunity it's great to be here in washington with everyone. i think what we are seeing in the cornea those of you that don't know we are around 80,000 people in los,0 angeles region, the president of los angeles county division of the california cities and i represent and my board represents over 11 million people and we have over almost 600 elected officials that are members of our organization so including los angeles, we have a really, really large economic base that i represent that we represent and so, for a city of my scale, kind of like it was said before, we are not predicting a recession but we are absolutely tracking those

indicators that show that there is something on the horizon. so we expect that to happen within the next one to three years. we are trying to undertake measures to prepare for that and to mitigate that. but what we are doing to be able to address those issues is we are being a little more entrepreneurial at the local level and whichever side of the philosophical spectrum you fall on our city and electric have actually decided to tax cannabis, allow cannabis for sale and our city has allowed by the city of california. so, we are a city that has embraced that and we feel that we've placed enough control measures in place to make sure that this isn't something that affects the general population. we haven't seen it yet which is

great in terms of the revenue side that's something we as a city have to be able to mitigate this negative economic indicators that we are seeing. at the same time when you have that curve that happened earlier this year and then on top ofve that, the state fiscal health index we've been tracking in california and we started seeing that negative downward trend earlier this summer and it's been trending downward for the past five months, so we can for california to be experiencing that, we are expecting but it's an indicator not only of what california has experienced going forward, but also as well as the country so we are very, very aware and concerned. we have cost increases. every city will say we have gublic safety costs that areav increasing, homelessness was mentioned earlier. our city is suffering from that as well as the local level where

we are addressing that. with some innovative action and at the same time costs associated with that and frankly even a year ago that wasn't some thing that we have expected so we are not shying away from the. at the same time, we do realize that we need to pay for it somehow so that is where we try to balance not only with cannabis but other revenue opportunities that we have in a city as well. and i think that again for the region in our state, that is your just trying to be more entrepreneurial and trying to tap into the revenue streams that are not the traditionalal revenue stream a city would tap into or even explore. at some point in time we have to start reimagining of the local city economics are and after is it that way. if i could mention one last thing that the young lady before

mentioned regarding online sales taxes. in california, what we have is that as a revenue source that is untapped. online sales taxes need to be modernized in terms of the ecollection mechanisms, so we agreed they are out there and we haven't given up on them yet. the department of taxing and assessment has actually been modernizing the software and in the meantime we are waiting for those revenues to come in. they're starting to trickle in and we expect as that which words we will start to see an increase. we don't know what that will be yet, but we expect there will be something healthy. but as the recession hits, obviously that is going to be affected as well so it's hard to forecast at this point. but we think that as the online spectrum starts realizing more of those sales and the traditional mom and pop brick and mortar starts going away it

is incumbent upon us as policymakers to be able to initiate and implement policies to be able to tap into that revenue stream as soon as possible because if we don't it is going to be to our own detriment. >> and our midwestern representative since we sold a pretty stark decline happening in the midwest, even though thereet is growth albeit slower growth is still growth and other region and especially in the larger cities in e the midwest what's going on in michigan and the states surrounding you? >> i think my role is to be the human embodiment of the economic geek fun. [laughter] it's not the first time either that is served in that role. i enjoy when i go outside the state and i get the chance to listen to other folks who ever wants to bracket the great recession i feel like i've been living off my entire adult life because you talk about the economics involved the changes

from the de- industrialization and globalization of th a lot of the economy and we've sort of been in the midwest ground zero for the coming off of all of our industrial use, so i think thosn difficult times are things we have just somewhat gotten used to in a good way and a bad way. on the other side of that is yes there is an economic issue to this music of declining revenue, weme of the things pointed out in the actual survey had to do with contracting economies or people worried about when the recession is coming. but a lot of it is decision-making. state and federal decision-making particularly when it comes to sharing revenues, providing revenues for the local dollars, so yes we have had economic issues in the midwest but i i think that witht exception, perhaps illinois i'm sure that everywhere else the way in which the state governments have decided to deal with this ban by using austerity as a budget goal and quite frankly as an economic development when it's not an

economic development tools when you have decades of bad, you wind up with transportation systems of validated the potholes as big as midwestern cows. it's going for a theme here. and water issues and everything else on housing issues all the way around and this time when we entered this economic change several decades ago, economies and industries were still largely regional and now we see people in jobs and entire industries going to places that are providing things in the way of amenities for people. so, if our state governments and to some degree federal government isn't going to join with local units it actually invests in these places it's not going to be a great outcome and we've got to figure out a better way to do that. >> when you talk about investments, what are the areas you think are the priorities for the investment where you are? >> i know the report talked

about three things as the money drivers in a a negative way. infrastructure, public safety and legacy costs and the legacy costs are basically for those individuals that used to do the infrastructure so it's basically infrastructure of public safety, and again, part of that is economically have downturn, not enough out there necessarily that much of it has been the state's role in quite frankly turning its back in many cases local units of government and of providing those funds. michigan is down about $9 billion. in the midwest in terms of the amount of money that was shared for these type of services before. people don't know that they are driving on a state or federal highway they are just driving on those looking for services. so again, having that state partner and federal partner to work on this type of thing and provide some of those resources and opportunities to dig themselves out of these economic

holes is something that we haven't done a very good job with. i don't think we've done a good job at around th around the coue midwest has been particularly difficult coming in this morning in the midwest or state governments treat our city's cis were spam usually baseball treat nationals. [laughter] i thought we would go with that i had to get that one in. >> what about you guys in terms of investment and where you see the biggest headwind in terms of this? >> just in terms of our capital plan and ten year plan is 110 billion, 75% of that goes towards infrastructure improvement and there are many that needed to be done and i think just to the point we see that as a way to drive economic development and create the incentives to come and do business in the city and in fact

overall in our economy we have seen that we are less the line on wall street. we've diversified more taxes coming in and in fact we just operated at the highest level and we've also seen education as another area where the economy has diversified in healthcare for the jobs and where we are going, so i think it's a different situation not only on the panel i was on last week because the. it's hard to make comparisons and i was on a panel with someone from michigan as well. >> on the investment side, the city and most in california are silver lining on the taxes, so anytime we have an opportunity to be able to invest as they city location and effort that is

going to create and increase sales taxes is what we are focused on at this point. it doesn't mean that we neglect the residential component. obviously we are keeping up with our services but by and large because of the nature off the beast we are focusing a lot on n creating the sales tax base for us to increase the revenue base for us so in my city we are lucky enough that we are alloweg to actually receive the line that is going to be coming to the city and so we have learned from ever localities which have been right or wrong and we are really w betting big on this lie that is going to be coming to the city and we are embracing it. we are putting all of the building blocks around wher of s station lining is going to be going so that whenhe this thing comes online we are able to tap into the sales tax base so we are giving a lot of mixed use at this point in time when we satisfy the need for the increase in residential space in

the city but at thed same time having that ensure that it creates the sales tax as well and we don't realize that when it's just housing so we try to be creative and also because of ehe investment we are doing and the fact that we are out there quoting the businesses to come into the city we are actually seeing a lot of interest right now for the developers and more so d than i would say the city s around us and it's pretty unique. it's exciting for us and something we haven't experienced in a a while but again i think e stability of government that we have in my case in the city council, the stability that we have in our staff and the training that we've built and economic plans to make sure they go out there and if they have the right message for the right audience to be able to attract them to the city we are investing so at this point, we -- the trend is showing that it's going to pay off in this we are expecting that to continue.

>> picking up on what you are talking about, so much of a city in the city of economy story these days is about housing and housing prices being unaffordable in more and more cities or in some places property valuesom really not shoving the same amount of increase there for property taxes are not being able to help the cities in the way they are on the coast for the large part so property tax revenue increased everywhere except in the midwest according to the report. but the housing affordability challenges also create whole new headaches for where you sit so in terms of thing you have the homelessness factor that goes along with it and a lot of other obligations with regards to that so i was interested in hearing a little bitit about how being on the outskirts of la you are seeing a lot of these kind of challenge is provided at the

same time and a president has taken notice and the governor has taken notice. you start to see the displacement of humor income people in the region for us it is a little bit concerning and a sense it's not right to displace somebody that for our cities is

the fabric of our community when you have people that have been there for years and decades and all of us they can't afford to have the locality and locations so from the fabric of the committee to keep that psychology and community intact it's a challenge i for us becaue we live in a free country and there's only so much we can do in terms of being able to affect social change and negative changes so we are very aware of the market forces and the effect they are having and at the same time at the local level we are trying to s address them as much as possible to ensure we don't lose that face and at the same time capture that increased value to hire properties are bringing in as well so we try to come up with a balance but at the same time trying to work with the federal government and state government for them to do their part as both to invest in the affordable housing so we can maintain a nice balance in the

community. but it is an issue ended in california the governor just vetoed a bill that would have gone a long way to invest in affordable housing. so it was extremely disappointing. we are looking forward to working with him in the next session to ensure that affordable housing gets an amount from the state but at the same time we can't wait for him and for the legislature to do what they did with the local level we have to fix these problems and fix them now. wend can't wait. we are trying. >> what do you see in new york parks is a fairly expensive place. >> at the beginning of the administration we announced our affordable housing plan and then we doubled down the effort in the second term. $13.5 billion in capital funding to either construct new or preserve affordable housing in

in terms of how much you can do is also done a lot of investment into the rental subsidy programs to help individuals particularly are homeless to see a significant impact in terms of being out to get people housing. but the challenge is always going to be coming and i'm sure major cities like this how much housing stock you actually have. >> i think housing is more a symptom of a bigger problem rather than the cause of it and i think that in most cases people sometimes go out looking for a specific type of housing often than not looking at locations toto figure out what e housing opportunities are within. on the spectrum you have a

homelessness and dealing with getting people into appropriate facilities and then hopefully looking at phone ownership further down the line and whatnot and housing affordability on this end. in the middle there's a lot of workers housing in the middle we talk about it where there's just not opportunity for that. i think a lot of it goes back to what we were just talking about. the fact that we are not different levels in the government investinof thegovernh places to become the bubble, to make people want to bem there so we are putting huge burdens on those places that are livable and driving up the cost and leaving everybody else behind so until we figure out the larger scale economics around trying to support these places and again in the midwest who have older aging communities in huge legacy costs and water infrastructure we are largely turning our backs on the state and federal level and again that austerity idea just put your way into this problem if doesn't work. we have to create places people want to be and it's a larger

problem i think. housing, as much as it seems like the problem i think that it is a clause of somethinghi much larger. >> shifting gears slightly then i'm going to open up to your questions. it was mentioned several times nin the report and at the tail end of the presentation the impact of trade and trade the changes at the federal level. how much is that becoming a challenge or already become a challenge inal your cities and s it something you are concerned about going forward? >> it is definitely a concern that we have and that is why we continue to be very cautious in our economic forecast. i think in the bigger scheme of how much of it actually affects our revenue sources significantly but it's something you're concerned about. >> for us it's big. the los angeles county region, the state of california itself not only for the agricultural aspects and export of that, but

also in terms of the jobs that i are created supporting their whole international trade industry from that. you have truckers and people that work at the ports that are a huge economic indicator, again not only for our region but others as well. so any time you have the pressures that cause instability in the trade of only cause instability that comes to us in the cities in the region but also you don't know if you are going to have a job tomorrow especially when it comes down to that level that isn't protected, so for us it's to work with the federal government to show the effect this has onw the region down to the local level and where we are at but it's something we are absolutely monitoring. >> ..

>> in just to hear you talk about this. but it is the volatility of the stock market and that latest tweet of the day and how the stock market responds and that volatility for us

especially on what is happening on wall street to the days of the trade talk. >> and those companies that will beto had. >> and now i will open to your questions. we will get a microphone to you. investmentg to the questions, one of the issues i was wondering about if there is a challenge in attracting and retaining who you need whether the benefits or general impression of what it's like to work for the federal government? >> you are talking about inner

cities or government agencies? >> those who work for city government. >> that is an issue no question. we the best and brightest in some government leaders looking for the same type that it comes ton differentiation of housing good infrastructure and transportation options. literally what is going around the world right now are basically areas we are all competing. so that's an issue we are trying to do some novel things to get people involved including a program to get more women involved. only about 60 percent

nationwide are females we are programs to get more females ioinvolved in the profession. we want to attack it but certainly seeing benefits going down and pay going down , we have to work longer in this profession because we need them. >> in terms of population i emerging issues really isn't there yet and be grown organically. but overall in southern california we live at an age

where they are stable. >> i can't say we have had our problems attracting and retaining. there are professions that are challenging and it is one of them. p they have done a lot of outsourcing of those jobs and long run we really needed cost saving to enforce those jobs we have been doing a lot of workob which we could go on and on about to be able to use those different levels of those positions but that is one area where we are building that infrastructure with savings because it's costing us more to outsource.

>> i will take police officers as an example with legacy cities they are having trouble recruiting police officers there hiring at relatively low levels than two or three years later when the officer gets experience they have gone to the suburbs to chase kids out of parking lots for more money so they will make those economic decisions. but the job of being a police officer is a completely different animal on the city versus the suburban we are not paying the way we should because of that austerity from the state level what is going on. so we see that goingg on all the time in a place that cannot afford for that to happen. >> this is the result of the program we find yourself in.

>> i am very nervous about the next recession so what are folks doing differently than they have in the past what they are anticipating even if not already taking down growth projections? what are they doing just in term of stress testing your budgets to make sure you are ready? >> i would be more concerned to say what are we doing? the fact we have been doing it since the beginning of the administration which is constantly asking the agencies for savings develop reserves and being very committed to

long-term liability with health benefits and investing, e reserves are not part of the general fund so the legacy for this administration is having a real down payment on health benefits that is a significant achievement but moving forward that is my worst criticism as budget director i will take it because we continue to be extremely cautious with our revenue forecast. yes. if over the course of the fiscal year we have additional revenues coming in through rcollection collections, yes. should i anticipate that? absolutely not we have to see that revenue come in but that's one area we continue to be extremely cautious. unlike many cities because of

the fiscal crisis of the seventies we update the budget quarterly. so in w real time to see where we are to course correct and we experience that last year with personal income tax that went up and then down. so the timing was very good but then it was an update for the budget to be very cautious we just don't know where that will go in for any budget director to say their revenue forecast and the time of the trump tax cuts are predictable so we found out to be very cautious about theve forecast with the next budget in april. that the other dynamic is with

the city council and the leadership giving how all volatile personal income taxes were. but it's time's to start thinking about adopting the budget, that we actually look at savings. so we adopted a budget and then i think next year moving and we will do the same strategy of increased reserves. and we will have savings we jointly adopt that is the whole forward thinking. >> for us any opportunity that we have with those ongoing cost with a headcount if it's

necessary we will keep it but if not but of that attrition not actually letting go of anybody but really that has been through attrition through that perspective and then to be very self-sustaining we have some increased cost pressures coming up. so we try to come up with revenue streams that are not as reliant but at the local level that we can be in control of ourselves. and so the pension obligations our city is around 76 percent. because we have m a surplus in

the city now we are convinced one - - committedio to investing in addition to that. so there are some things that are as soon as possible but that's what we will keep an eye on. >> i think when the number of police officers at the local level were laid off at three or 4000 and i stopped counting. .nd firefighters were a similar way. i believe our roads are ranked h or 50th in the country. and again the cutting happens and happens until it gets to a

point where the state government particularly the federal government can make practical decisions round budgeting for the good of the communities and the states. we will be in trouble. we had a campaign for michigan to get a true partnership at the local and state level to help us. it's not a tax issue but there are so many different things happening in government how you collect taxesng to how you can spend dollars or work communities in your region. you name it which could do a lot to go a long way when it comes to budgeting otherwise you run into water issue problem in transportation. so we have to have got to get beyondo politics.

because state and federal governments usually figure out at the 11th hour how to take care of their own budgets but the money they have to share with us doesn't make its way into that then we are three decades deep into some of those like transportation funding and the rest and that's when you see things fall off the table. we have to do a better job of that the cities cannot do that on their own has to be a multitiered approachh. >> are you concerned as people get more nervous about a possible recession as you see indicators, things will constrict further? >> it seems that way. that has been thehe go to for a while now. cutting your way to economic development might work in a place like malaysia.

it might to be the cheapest you can be to attract light industrial but in our economy in the us the larger regional economies it's about providing a lifestyle in schools and universities. ereverything think of all the places we want to be. that's what we have topl offer people and if we don't the economics or the tax structure or talk about creating jobs or improving the economy go by the wayside. it's no longer good for business or good for the people. >> we saw that in california in the legislative session with the affordable housing bill. we saw the governor in that caseau to insulate the state from possible recession. right now that has a nice

healthy $22 million surplus in the budget and depending on where you are at he insulated the state from future expenses. so we are seeing that and we saw that last year as well with the transportation bill. it's creating a lot of jobs right now which is great but at the same time considering the state has healthy reserves the tax was put on the voters and we committed to that but it's another example where the state could have stepped up but it didn't. >> also i want to say that owere are things we can think

about with their own operations and have context to do that differently so that when the revenues were coming in with those agencies how they actually operate that as we start to think about it or to scare anybodybo with layoffs to think about what you are doing differently and how you can do more with that is easier said w than done but often times when things are moving along. you don't often think about the efficiency side of it. >> i started to walk out to get to a meeting but then i thought infrastructure.

talking about the federal infrastructure bill and it seems from the discussion today it would be particularly timely. i raise that to say if we are looking atnd something to help stabilize turn around, there we go. >> great. [laughter] >> and the positive impact that it has on the economy and jobsbs it's always a great investment and to stabilize the infrastructure and attract investment in our communities and it has that nice trickle-down effect. we are ready foryb that. >> is like we're talking about something new but the government has always done infrastructure the highway system or railroads or anything else has been on a massive scale.

is not necessarily stepping up at the plate but staying in the plate. >> in line with the question so what about cities even though it does affect infrastructure or jobs or technology or the economy? a loty of students are working on becoming more intelligent. how they move traffic and how to pay for different things. is this something that could be put aside? how do you see that quick. >> and the trend with our

economy. i think it should be expected with the economic perspective to have large segments of the population and those that do show to have that resilience to adapt to be successful. i think it's crucial to invest in the technological infrastructure. that every single segment reflective of having a stable and peaceful society. >> you can't say it better than that. >> in trying to create economic development many

states offer economic incentives. how does that affect your budgetary position? >> thanks for coming. [laughter] >> we as a city don't offer economic incentives that way but it comes from the state. >> in our city. [laughter] >> we do. for us because our city is aged and with the renovation like with the grants with the façade to make the aesthetics look new and also other developers and investors. so we do pay those dividends

and reinvested not. so if there is a downturn i think that is something we would start reducing our investment but at this time we feel confident. >> i think everybody has gotten into their game over the last several decades and is not productive in the end records a one-off situation but you may not be able to bring in the private investor. and then get back to the fact the number one thing people are looking for is a great community. that should be at the top of everybody's list.

then you take away from that state or federal condition than that puts you at a disadvantage. so i fear the longer-term infrastructure in place to thoughtfully invest in communities around the country we try to be the cheapest again. five or ten or 20 million here or there. those are some sore subjects of trends recently after a countrywide visit. after 18 months they wound up in two of the healthiest economy with the entire planet were hundreds of millions it would be a lot less work if they did that in the first place but they want workers to

go there and they want to attract to these places. if you don't add as a corporation to the bottom line it is a net loss over time. >> there is a bit of chicken and egg where there aren't a lot of companies in the beginning to offer something to attract more companies and more people. it is a cycle. >> it is the chicken and the egg issue i'm not smart enough to figure out the answer to that question but over time it will pay for itself and work itself out. there's nothing you can do right now as a city or region or state to be better equipped economically than to have better places to live and work. so that should be ultimate

bottom line. >> amazon didn't pick the cheapest places to do business they wouldry never chosen dc or new york. those very rule places they were never in competition for that. because they are looking housing and the amenities that it unfortunately that stuff is not free. >> earlier later we asked about the tax policy of austerity look at the membership of the mlc most cities are at 50000 mind is similar in terms of population.

you can't do anything with incentives without partnership at the state and county level and as austerity rears its head which happens in a recessio recession, our ability to attract businesses eventually there is a rebound and those companies decides we have been here for years. so i think there are some limitations but my question earlier was the transferring of the burden of the response to economic changes is almost directly to communities of o our size and to us we have less

ability to respond we are staffed to the bare-bones and have increased efficiency and at some point the services your taxpayers expect and demand become limited. this is where it is a local political decision and we cannot figure out that part of the equation. i haven't heard any of that discussion and that's okay it happens all the time. webe can talk about the top 200 cities. >> i don't know if you want to comment to that quick. >> it's interesting we are

having a discussion and then to make that decision and as policymakers to be implemented for us. so then you have those revenues sweat the same time the electorate express it on - - expects and then to come to grips we can continue to create that revenue stream. and that's for us either to figure out but that electorate

imposes something. >> thank you for coming and being here with us today. see you next time. >> thank you to the[a panel. >> thank you for making the trip and presenting today is a agreat partner. in the finance directors was pleasantly surprised to see you reading the report

intently but if you have not gotten your copy be sure to pick them up on the way out. to continue the conversation on twitter and if you really love city finances and want to mingle with the best and the brightest please come cs that city seven we will be at san antonio thank you for being here. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] immigw

attorney. >> the subcommittee will come to order and >> the subcommittee will come into order with the indulgence of the witnesses many of us would like to makeab a comment about the late john conyers who was a member of this committee for many decades. who gave his life to public service and passed away a few days ago having served his country in the armed forces and here and we mourn his passing and it would not be in

keeping with our tradition to without at least giving our condolences to his family and those who served with him and who he represented i will recognize the chairman for remarks on mister conyers. >> thank you madam chairperson. americans across the country are mourning the loss of john conyers today that l his loss is not felt more deeply here in the judiciary committee serving more than 50 years. including 20 years as chairman or ranking member. he was a true champion for civil rights and justice and on the forefront of the civil rights movement he also holds

the distinction to be the only member of congress to be endorsed by martin luther king jr. throughout his career he was a leader of progressive causes he authored universal healthcare legislation and introduced hr 40 with the reparations of jim crow back j in 1989 with a long track record to work across the aisle with partisan legislation such as the violence against women act usa freedom act and the voting rights act. as a leader of the judiciary committee spearheading important legislation hate crimes legislation in the innocence protection act.

not only terms of how many bills they sponsored but as a founding member of the congressional black caucus and was a mentor to those including me. he is my colleague and my friend and my chairman i am humbled to serve in his footsteps to be comforted by the portrait that hangs above me and attempting to carry on his legacy. and his hearts are with the country may his memory be a blessing. >> i now recognize the ranking member of the full committee. >> thank you. to echo the chairman statement mister conyers was amazing and

i choose to emphasize what he accomplished from his time and timhis chair and it worked with him on many occasions before but the thing that i remember the most his kindness and sense of humor and he was the sharpest dresser in the room the highlights a few years ago we went to detroit and he was the host it was just a really neat time to let him show he came from. the last memory i will hold dear for me is i remember one day leaving the committee to go to the floor for a vote he wentba to the train and we are

coming back to the hearing room and it was just me and him. i was introducing myself. i said just curious you have been here a long time. t what brought you to congress a quickly starts to chuckle he said i really wanted to be the judiciary committee with the voting rights act of 1964 i said you do realize that was two and half years before i was born cracks he says yeses i have been here a while and stick around you'll see a lot of things. we mourn that and we would be remiss if we did not recognize that. >> all other members are invited to submit whatever comment theyhe would like.

>> is now my pleasure to welcome everyone to the hearing on the impact of the policies of servicemembersac and veterans over the last two and half years the administration has implementedit policy changes with united states armed forces with the prosecutorial discretion when it comes toom enforcementt resulting in removal that serve the country but struggle with the transition of civilian life and those that were disabled by a ptsd this would allow to explore policy changes that

has impacted and their families without objection to recognize my colleague and who will preside and the remainder of my time for the opening statement. >> without objection i would telike permission to submit these letters as part of the record with veterans and

families. >> first of all thank you to my colleague for her leadership i appreciate the opportunity to preside over this hearing today as we approach veterans day have to recognize and honor all veterans including immigrant veterans who have served honorably with the revolutionary war to the conflicts ofon afghanistan and iraq there over half a million in the united states just recently as 2012 there were 34000 immigrants the philippines, mexico jamaica account for the greatest number regardless of when they

were born in the servicemembers more than once i share the story of marine corporal born in mexico. he was killed in action 2003 after iraqi forces ambushed him and his fellow marines the first combat casualty of the iraq war he was posthumously given american citizenship those who defend the country as a marine to make the deals and the sacrifice that he was a dreamer those that are willing to defend the united states, the country they love we have an obligation of american citizenship.

at least since 1996 thousands of6 veterans took the oath of allegiance to be honorably discharged but that should be subject to deportation and you never leave a soldier behind. us immigration customs enforcement does not follow policies for solving cases and does not always identify as such it has no idea how many veterans it has the ported and with the naturalizationed process of militaryit members. as a result the naturalization

has decreased 41 percent from 732017 to about 4000 fiscal year 2018. in august 2019 immigration service announced the change of a definition of the term resident in affect children born to us service members have to naturalize under the application process. together with my colleague from texas we wrote a letter to the ins acting director asking for reconsideration of the policy and without objection i would like to submit that w letter as part of the record. with thosese policy changes to

turn our back on immigrant servicemembers this is unacceptable and we need to correct the situation of the forward to hearing the testimony it has been my pleasure to recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee for an opening statement. >> thank you mister chairman immigrant served in armed forces throughout our country's history to provide those to serve honorably and with hostility to include september 112011 the noncitizen member of the armed forces became a citizen with active duty status naturalization is voluntary and not automatic and those that qualify for naturalization must apply for and receive a favorable

adjudication to take the legions to become a naturalized citizen. and this is a reasonable requirement for that determination that the servicemember has served honorably as required since octt 2001 to naturalize approximately 130,000 members of the military to be deployed abroad the difficult issue of suthe us military no one is above the legal consequence and of those proceedings to be

handled according to guidance and has been in place and those suffering from mental health problems due to their service with chairman nadler and hr 48 oh three citizenship for children of the civil servants act. the bipartisan bill makes a technical change to the requirements of section 320 of the immigration nationality act. and automatically acquire citizenship and that they are not disadvantaged just because they are stationed abroad. we introduced 48 oh three earlier this month a change in the law is necessary to work together to get it done. meal back the balance of my

time. >> your recognize your opening statement. >> you mister chairman. and with the revolutionary war of bipartisan policy standard of 2016 of the foreign-born veterans but that makes up a substantial portion of the population we rely on them to keep the nation safe to provide stability and protect leaders to ensure they and their families are supported to become every opportunity to be a us citizen due to the rurgiving nature of our immigration laws now it appears the opposite is true.

with the department of defense has implemented numerous policy changes with the expedited naturalization process. october 2017 and for those to receive that certification of honorable service that is essential to expedite the naturalization processon certification could be issued as soon as it began but now after 180 consecutive days one year into the selective reserve and with those certifications with any supervising officer now at the military grades for those commissioned officers.

no purpose - - that military authorization is a klein 34 percent in fiscal year 2017 in addition us eis dramatically has cut funding the naturalization service is much more limited. they use to provide such services for 23 international offices i but that change that took affect last month with us eis personnel so why would we make it more difficult for those that are risking their

lives to become permanent members of society during this hearing those that struggle with that transition this is as a result the convictions of ptsd or other trauma suffered to make that transition back to civilian life. may serve this country and a medical condition as a result so therefore they are deported we can all agree we should not simply turn our backs to our country especially if it is service related the veterans

deserve betterr and we deserve to back them up at the immigration law. along with ranking member collins to serve while my colleagues to fix the problem of the policy changes taking effect today which makes it more difficult to this policy makes it easier for citizenship in the to advance in the coming weeks thank you for holding this important

hearing i look forward to their testimony. >> thank you chairman nadler and thank you for your opening statement. spirit there lieutenant colonel it is congress' place to see if it could be made last week and other colleagues across the political spectrum introduce the citizenship for military members acted recently aligned that interpretation to expose a loophole that the children of the armed forces were not given citizenship because they could not have the residency requirement if their parents were fighting abroad.

it's important to remember immigrants also wear a uniform so historically the foreign list d's and then it jumped to 7000. many go on to be naturalized for their service us citizenship 129,000 members of the military at one time deployed abroad. the immigration laws with those layout provisions for any for a national serving in the military during hostility including the time period of after the september 11 attack the department of defense issued a policy memberer memoo o serve at least 180 days which is required with that policy

it does not issue a citizen or any noncitizen. at all foreign nationals are used r or subject to immigration law all of you shouldn't shelter them agency should be sensitive to honorable service to consistently apply the policy to take into account of armed services so then to assure they do not intend harm so do become aware through the military extension but this permitted foreign nationals to

enlist in the armed services even though they were only here on a temporary basis. is simply not up to the challenge in addition to verifiable records including questionable allegiance to the us. susceptibility to a foreign influence. even one publicly known case where the chinese spy existed for the national interest program. also though security screening procedures by listing individuals on a temporary status that is part of the decision to halt those so it would be extremely helpful to

testify today to hear the reasoning to the national interest programming for the service requirement for look forward to the witnesses testimony thank you for being here. i yield back my timeim. >> it's now my pleasure to introduce today's witnesses. good to see you again us army veteran and from tijuana california and born in mexico grew up in california and elicited listed in the army serving six yearsrs where he received multiple awards such as the army commendation medal and despite service to his country has been deported twice honorable discharge last year he became a us citizen and remains committed to his organization to provide support for deported veterans

with a key for his service and to be here today to share your, story the director of immigrant rights to serve as a senior staff attorney at the aclu of southern california she has worked since 2008 to specialize in immigrant rights and advocacy related to immigration enforcement policy. she received a heard jd from georgetown university law center. etired lieutenant colonel in the military police, u.s. army reserve imposable immigration attorney with the cross-border log group in the distinguished macarthur foundation for her outstanding work in immigration and national security. she has testified before both

chambers of congress, including this very subcommittee to discuss the issues ranging from the effects of immigration law on the military. she holds 3 degrees from harva harvard, including her jd, mpa and masters inches she did studies from the u.s. army war college. we welcome her as well. welcome back to this committee. the honorable mark metcalf is a former immigration judge on the immigration court in miami, florida and a former federal state prosecutor in his home state of kentucky. mr. metcalf also held various positions with the u.s. deferment of justice in 2002-2008. he's worked as a petitioner and a colonel in the army national guard and serves as command judge advocate with the 140

ninth maneuver enhancement brigade in kentucky. mr. metcalf has previously testified before congress and is an expert on immigration law. this includes his testimony before the subcommittee and that 100 11th congress he received his ba and jd from the university of kentucky and we welcome them back through the subcommittee and we look forward to your testimony. we welcome all our distinguished witnesses and thank you for your participation. if you could please rise i will spare you in. please raise your hand. do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give his true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information and belief to help you god? thank you. let the record show the witnesses answered in the affirmative and thank you and

please be seated. please note each of your written statements will be entered into that record and i will ask each of we will begin. welcome. >> chairman, congressman, ranking member and other distinct numbers of the committee thank you the opportunity to appear before the subcommittee to testify about these important issues i am a u.s. veteran who was to mexico in 2004 and honored to join you today to speak on math of my fellow deported veterans about my personal experience and i would like to acknowledge that some formerly deported veterans

have joined us in the room today, including miguel perez and the green card veterans that are supporters. i'm not proud what led to my deportation but proud of my military service in the positive compliments in my life, including starting this in tijuana. i grew up in compton, california and my family and i moved to the u.s. when i was kevin years old. as a child i remember pledging allegiance to our american flag every morning. i enlisted in 1995 when i was 17 years old and a lawful permanent resident at the time and wanted to serve my adopted country and saw service as a way to leave the environment and to afford to go to college. i arrived in fort bragg and volunteered for airborne school serving in the 82nd airborne from 1996-1999. i reenlisted for another three years left service with an honorable discharge in october 2001.

after i left the service i had trouble adjusting and made mistakes. i eventually found myself in prison for an incident where a firearm was discharged at a vehicle and i was sentenced to 3.5 years in the state of california but i was deported because of my criminal record and because i was not a u.s. citizen. i came back to the u.s. eagerly started a family and worked as a roofer. eventually i was deported in 2010 for a traffic incident that i had but they reinstated my deportation. i made the toughest decision in my life and decided to stay in tijuana and return to the u.s. legally. i wanted to but in in 2013 the commendation of hard work and determination i opened up the veteran support i wanted a place

that could help support veterans in situations like mine and navigate the hardship of deportation and the separation from our families in the country we love and serve. it's a lifeline for many deported veterans and around the world. provides housing helps them find jobs in file for va benefits and connect pro bono attorneys can return to their families under today's laws most deported veterans only come home to america with an american flag draped around their caskets. there is no honor in bringing deported veterans to be recognized for their service only when they died. i became an citizenship on april

13, 2018 and i'm blessed to be back home in america and be a father to my daughter. once again, i want to emphasize i'm a firm believer in people being held accountable. it does not make sense for me to deport our veterans after they have completed their sentence and paid for their actions. for veterans, deportation is a double punishment. as an example, my friend is a former u.s. marine who was deported in the day he rose drug rehab center in tijuana. his daughter was a lively and inspiring young woman passed away in an accident in 2017 and we held a funeral service in tijuana because roberto was

unable to go to san diego to bury his daughter. i have a few recordations on how to ensure we protect our veterans from deportation and encourage all service mowers and veterans to naturalize. i'm blessed to be u.s. citizen today and i believe u.s. citizenship only acknowledges when many deported veterans already believe in their hearts. we believe ourselves to be american and no current law requires us to be report our veterans. we must support our veterans and i thank you for the opportunity to testify. >> thank you. i like to call on [inaudible] for her statement. >> ranking member about, to stay with members of the sub committee for immigrant recruits expedited citizenship in exchange for their military. since 1996 the united states has

betrayed that promise. we've deported thousands of our veterans and every day we deport more. just last week i supported [inaudible] a two-time iraq and afghanistan war veteran, combat veteran who suffered a traumatic brain injury and who struggles with severe ptsd and substance abuse. they came to the u.s. as a three euro child and knows no other home. he cares for his life in el salvador paid these deportations are unconscionable and immoral and the result of three forces working together for the first, punishing an unforgiving 1996 deportation. the failure of the u.s. government to naturalize nonservice members while they are serving. third, hyper- aggressive immigration enforcement over the past decade. deported veterans are nearly all

former lawful permanent residents and those interviewed for our 20 -- the united states is the only country they know as home. change made excessively punitive with criminal convictions such as writing a bad check or possession for failed marijuana and even convictions for those who may serve no time in jail at all with prior deportation bars them for life. ninety-six laws dramatically expanded the definition of the category known as aggravated felonies. today the term is a whole host of nonviolent misdemeanors but are neither aggregated nor felonies. the law may deportation men today are by eliminating all

forms of judicial suppression meaning a single colonel conviction, one mistake, could equal a lifetime of the banishment with no exception. it means the judge will not be permitted to consider whether deportation because it domestic violence occurred more than ten years ago and they will not be able to served honorably to earn the rank of sergeant. he lived in the united states for 52 years since he was four years old and as a successful engineering career, two grown sons and a granddaughter and extended family who are all u.s. citizens. the judge will not consider the deportation was forcing him to live the remainder of his life estranged from everything he knows because the law says one mistake and you are out. citizen and noncitizen veterans equally struggle with reentry

following discharge and substance abuse, mental health issues and anger can lead to contact with the colonel justice system and as a society with that inflict our veterans. the policy looks the other way. [inaudible] is here today and sitting behind me with his daughter deported for the crime of spitting on a police officer which was defined as an aggravated felony. he served one year in connecticut prison and at the conclusion of a sentence ice was at the prison door and they arrested him and detained him for 3.5 years, 3.5 years without the rights to be released on bail. he fought his deportation and then deported him. do not matter he served eight honorable years in two young daughters their father. one mistake. because of the change in law and allowed to get his green card back.

most aborted veterans have no such options for return. u.s. will not be deporting the veterans how the government kept his promise to them and made them citizens while they were in the military. over the years numerous obstacles have stood in the way of service members naturalizing. none of those obstacles, none are greater than the obstacles service members are facing today with the deferment of defense and immigration service polici policies, miguel behind me and body the hope of deported veterans around the world their hopes lay at the feet of congress and they did not turn their back on our country. we must not turn our back on them. >> thank you. missus stock, welcome.

>> congressman, chairwoman, ranking member, distinguished members of the subcommittee name is margaret stock and a monitor to testify today. the last three years have witnessed in an effort to stop immigrants from joining the military, stalling their naturalization when they do join in preventing them from continuing to serve. the new policies do not make our country safer and they harm military recruiting and hurt military readiness and prevent the armed forces from utilizing talent. the new policies hide behind balls rationales to conceal xena phobic motives and represent broken promises who would put their lives on the line in the

previous efforts of congress to help noncitizen military members become citizens and the improvements for the naturalization cases have been eradicated and in 2018 the media reported the number of service members applying for naturalization after -- a story said immigrant serving in a motivator more military members cannot file for citizenship unless they receive a certified form in four to six stating they are serving honorably and three years ago getting the form signed really required a trip to the nearest military personnel office and recently the deferment of defense changed the rules where this form can be survived and duty now requires an officer in the rate of zero

they have great difficulty finding an officer of this grade willing to sign their forms. under the 2018 military processing act u.s. was required to process military naturalization applications within six months and however the law contained [inaudible]. when the law was in effect you ask process military naturalization applications quickly. today u.s. cs takes the position there is no deadline for processing these cases and they are now taking years to process. in mid 2009 they started a highly successful program whereby noncitizen military recruits filed for naturalization when they reported to training and in accordance with previous long-standing wartime practice these allegations were processed so the soldiers graduated from training and became u.s. citizens at the same time. the current administration terminated this program in early

2018. last thursday i was at the only a few short blocks from the world trade center and adams square with its eye-catching monument to chinese americans who fought in the on them all played a continuous loop to illustrate the promise was made in that film is false. there is no more expedited military naturalization. today it takes much longer for a military member to naturalize than his or her civilian counterparts. military members application is much more likely to be denied. military members have had to resort increasingly to the courts to get the agencies to follow the law. last week and active duty soldier with no criminal record had to sue dhs to the agency

refused to make a decision on her naturalization. the law mandates the decision was made within 120 days of an interview. alayna was interviewed more than three years ago. u.s. cis officials so they decided not to naturalize her until she was discharged citing new dod policies. she was discharged honorably last it's easier for a civilian green card holder to naturalize then green card holders naturalize through their military service paid as a result immigration lawyers are now advising green card holders not to join the military more difficult. dod has made it more difficult for noncitizens to join the military in the first place. immigrants make up about 13.5% of the u.s. population they are now less than 4% of the military. military recruiters report to me

they are nativeborn americans and some they cannot find qualified candidates so the billets go unfilled. u.s. cis has recently changed policies or plans to change policies in ways that harm family numbers of military personnel and veterans. policy changes are made without conspiracy or account ability and without asking key stake holders first. i would be remiss if i did not mention the broken promise made to foreign nationals who work with the u.s. government in iraq or afghanistan. many of the workers have tried to get special immigrant visas promised to them by congress but remain in danger while they await background checks that drag on for years. the united states government breaks the promises made to these individual who put their lives on the line and previously passed rigorous background checks american foreign policy and the lives of american military members are put at risk. national security depends on

keeping the promises that america makes the immigrants who come here and keeping the promises we make a someone stands before an american flag, raises her right hand and takes the oath of the allegiance to the united states. we need to keep this promise that america is the nation of immigrants. they show no interest in reversing their misguided policy changes in congress must act. in my written testimony i make ten suggestions for things that congress can do to the u.s. government has made to america's fighting men and women prayed i thank you for the opportunity to testify and i'm ready for questions. >> thank you for your comments. mr. metcalf, welcome. >> thank you. it's an honor to be here. i think all of you and think the panelists for their statement. i'm a colonel, soldier with 28 year of service and served at the victory base combat in my

unit was a maneuver enhancement brigade and closed american operations in iraq [inaudible] with us for soldiers, jamaica, cameroon, ukraine, in one case a naturalized citizen served as a combat arms company commander and all earned their citizenship. thorough background checks for the rule and this brings me to the point i believe critical to good policy. first of all, we may have differences of opinion today but we are all americans. the policies conceived to advance the experience of immigrants is wide, large and it is generous. i favor a 180 day active-duty service apartment for noncitizens that allows basic throwback projects and completed

and can better identify individuals whose histories require further investigation with a continue a more rigorous and sensitive training. this is not onerous in the light of the great response bullies and opportunities service and the american military offers. time and service requirements permit suitability assessments as financial, with policies [inaudible] are conferred upon those who have no credible doubts about their suitability. i turn now to [inaudible] program. it was created to enhance force readiness. medical and language skills were augmented through its application and some 10404 nationals were enlisted. still it was halted by the obama administration and fall any 16.

generally the recruits have verifiable public and private records from outside the u.s. it made the need to scrutinize their histories all the more important so that no worthy candidate is denied membership in our armed services and moves on to citizenship. i favor approaches to scrutiny already put in place by doj. recent experiences justified the rigor and possibility and i want to point out in my more illustrated statement to you the incidences involving fraudulent applications in one case the chinese national posing as a recruit only to be found as a chinese espionage as it. i want to move on to the removal of veterans. first of all, if i had been an immigration judge i would have canceled his removal from the

united states. as a judge in miami. i've awarded 75-80% of all cancellation [inaudible] by the way, my grant of 75-80% cancellations was not unusual. the numbers from the immigration courts, if you start parsing them, mr. chairman shows are judges are generous with the grant with the lpr's and npr's and that is something we can talk about in further hearings but i want to point out that this is a perfect example of what cancellation was intended to relieve. also, i want to point out that the cancellation process takes into consideration the kind of deep dive into the facts that the elements now being used by ice should have been using all along. i note that veterans overall

criminal history is rehabilitation, family, financial ties to the u.s., and women history, health, community service in addition to the duty status whether active or reser reserve, years of service and decorations awarded. these are proper considerations to remove one veteran who should not be removed is one too many to consider each case on a case-by-case basis looking at all the facts applicable is the right approach and will always be the right approach. i thank you for your time today and i'm happy to answer questions you and the members and the panel may have. >> thank you. i would like to proceed under the five minute rule for questions. i will begin by organizing myself mr. metcalf you are right this is not a democrat or republican issue but an issue about justice for all our veterans who have served our

country and but essentially their life on the line for our country. if i may respectfully ask the deported veterans could you raise your hand, please. want to thank thank you for your service to our country and my question is the basic one. which is why when these soldiers earned their service why did they not become citizens? were those resources not given to you? were you promised that citizenship? >> thank you for that question paid to things that happen. i think the government needs to be held accountable when they promise citizenship and then needs to be a program in place. >> when you say the government promised citizenship.

>> it's an individual response ability but definitely the u.s. government needs to make sure there's a program in place that they set aside time or have somebody that can show you what needs to be done. >> thank you. this stock, you mentioned the program terminated and when you graduate from training in terms of putting you in a pasture you said that program has been canceled or suspended? >> the program has been canceled. it existed during world war i, world war ii, korean war, vietnam war and make sense legally for the people are not american citizens but fighting in our armed verses. the background checks are done before they enter the service so they should be done -- >> is there a difference, a

quantifiable difference, if you're marine, air force, army in terms of citizenships or folks that may become citizenships after discharge? >> all the services had basic training naturalization until 2018 in january when it was canceled. now we have chaos. >> could you be more specific? >> everyday i get a call from green card holder and the majority says nobody will help me file for citizenship and i don't know they're telling me i'm not eligible for citizenship and nobody is willing to assist me. >> when you mention it's harder for the green card holder in the military and the green card holder outside the military to become a citizen how is that? >> civilians don't need to go through convoluted multiyear contracts by the deferment of defense before they become citizens. they don't need to get certified and they don't need to find an officer in the ranks -- >> i ask you because i've been

in my district and we have a big latino district in the country and these kids i know for my high schools that are residents don't ask how hard it will be for me to become a citizen but they just enlist and marine recruiters are in high school and these kids with honor say i will sign up and i don't think they are there to serve the country. this concerns me because we need to move ahead and revert back soldiers that are serving with honor have the right to become a citizen and that right is a meaningful one. >> the program was highly successful. >> where do we go from here? do we present legislation? >> the law allows programs like this to exist and they were common. world war i, world war ii, vietnam war, korean war, this

was standard practice of the government and only reversed by the department of defense in internal memos that undermine the intent express of congress with a statute passed by congress more than 100 years ago. you have lawlessness by the deferment of defense that are undermining a statute with internal executive memos. >> [inaudible] did you mention that? the 1996 act take away judicial discretion? i know mr. metcalf had a different perspective. tell me. >> yes, that is one the most troubling aspects of the changes made to the immigration laws. it removed had an aggravated felony and expanded the definition of aggregated felony. and things that don't classify as aggravated. >> i'm out of time but in orange county we were the first pioneers creating veterans

courts and out these issues are complex. we look forward to working with you on this issue. i'd like to recognize mr. biggs for five minutes. >> thank you. i think we all understand that many of our veterans struggle with reintegration due to ptsd issues and that is why i've introduced a bill in legislation to advocate for my colleagues across the aisle to make access to make there be more available and more easily because it's wholehearted to hold support therapy from veterans and when i see mr. -- indicate he was struggling to reintegrate i don't think that's unusual for many of our servicemen and women to come back. therapy will be helpful for that. he also said there's no free

pass and that deportation is a double punishment. let me explain why that is not so. there is no progress because you did of the time for shooting at a vehicle. that was the charge convicted and you serve your time. it became a deterrent. you were deported because of you are not a citizen and there's nobody else that would get an exception to that here because of any other rationale they would be -- you were deported [inaudible] i'm happy for you you received a pardon and your citizenship but to say it's a double punishment -- the first punishment for violating the crime and committing the crime is the criminal sentence itself. deportation is applicable to any

person in the country that is not a citizen who has engaged in conduct. that's the penalty that comes from obtaining citizenship and i read your statement and listen to you testify and may have a misunderstanding of what but i want to point out data that is absolutely mind-boggling that was brought up. [inaudible] this individual deported was convicted, among other things, injury to a spouse which he received an eight year sentence, assault with a deadly weapon and false imprisonment. he did not naturalize when he was in the military and then subject to de- portability doe

does -- they were not misdemeanors that were as a result of the expansion of aggregated felonies. in seven ... ... >> obligations compared to 683,000 civilian applications. they received military applications, so, there are some interesting things we do manipulate the statistics in the way that i heard here today. we reviewed the cases involving 87 of the 92 veterans who were

ultimately deported between 2013. eighteen of those veterans, were convicted for sexually abusing others. twenty-one were convicted of a violent felony such is a homicide assault. that is 24 percent of the total. nine were deported for having been convicted of firearms or explosives related things. those cases, i am talking about over half of them were during the obama administration. not on trump. >> mr. chairman i ask unanimous consent to enter these documents, the press release chinese alleged acting in the u.s. of the people's public you shall, subsequently believe you

are working at high level intelligence officer with chinese. also the 2017, department of defense memo, article service cannot take place until security checks have been completed demonstrating these were taken seriously. nationalization that publicly military service. my time is expired. thank you. that went out objection. >> i would like to call in our chairman for five minutes of questions. >> thank you mr. chairman. thank you for coming here and sharing your story. it appears stories like pictures are all is it too common. in 2019, the report, 250 veterans removal proceedings. 2013 to 200018, at least 92

veterans were deported. i measure my open inc. expend. ptsd, brain injury and other traumas suffered while on active duty. how can the government, said the military people. >> see whose again. >> how can the government especially our blake of defense, better inform veterinary eligibility for naturalization. >> waited to have some kind of program in place there where they can explain the forms that need to be done. that is my thought. >> okay, in your testimony today, you laid out on the trump administration made live more difficult for cardholders. enjoy the military and i did

then apply for naturalization. world military service members, working on military acquisitio acquisitions, are warned about the changes ahead of time were able to find out if the changes recommended. >> no. and no cost-benefit analysis. >> in fact the services were pushed back of the requirements because they see there unreasonable and making it hard to recruit people. >> so they push back the requirements. >> yes, they don't agree with these requirements. >> his came from dod, upper loophole. >> came from dod which did not do any cross analysis no discussion about it. externally. with stakeholders and no analysis on the factors or on military recruiting. >> lpr surfing the military, in 426, requests certification

military service which is essential to the naturalization process. signed by the proper authoriti authorities. dod policy changes. >> the put out the demo but they didn't do anything to educate people generally about what should be done and there was haphazard, memos that didn't reach to the lowest levels. in fact if you talk to recruiters today, though still tell you that out, shoulders can be nationalized in basic training. they don't even realize things have changed and people are told that it is easy to get your certified, but you have to wait and take it to your first unit and then we do get there, you can't find anybody who will certify it because there is no public education effort on how to get it certified. >> your experience what is the average time to get a response to the certification. once they have completed the 426. >> and is taking months, the exact plan being that if the e-mail it to me, i've especially mail that i can send it to somebody who will get one side and a couple of weeks. if you know in the army.

it is only if you know enough to e-mail me. that that happens. >> if you don't, it takes months. >> you can take months of the forms are getting lost, people just never hear back after they submit them. >> what signals do you think that these the empty policy changes thinking about joining the military. what signals do they sick to the lpr currently surfing in the military. >> and forcing whose in the signal that the service has brought valued. that they are not welcome in the military. they also send a signal that they should not join the military until after they get their citizenship because are going to face a very long haul either citizenship and if they try to do it after joining the military. >> one state support services are available,. >> they used to be very strong services because the basic training naturalization sites and things that were dedicated to handling military people. doesn't been dismantled so now

it is rather ad hoc. there is a military helpline you can call, which often get wrong information we do call the military helpline. >> in other words, the bureaucratic processes have increased. sooner that's correct. >> who may experience what is the average spend of time it takes to process a military naturalization application. >> is used only to get few months but now in monday cases, it is taking upwards of a year or two or sometimes three or four years. >> they planted tilting most of its international field offices, and consolidated overseas naturalization, consolidating beep for hubs. twenty-six field offices and for hubs. how these changes impact service members and their families seeking citizenship while abroad. >> it will make it harder. >> one more question. how can we stop the deportation of the military veterans.

>> restore basic training naturalization. then we will not have any deported best if everyone gets nationalized before the ligament the military. i should.out that congress put an apartment safeguard in the law expedited naturalization. the law says that if you don't surf honorably for a period or periods aggregating five years, you can't lose your citizenship that you gain through military service. so there is no reason for these misguided policies because the legal means already is in the law can take care of anybody who is the bad actor and misbehaves after they get their citizenship. no reason other than ill will. thank you i yield back. >> do you have security clearance currently. some are currently no i am retired. he smacked you have any access to classified information that was involved in making decisions about who would receive and

which veterans would receive citizenship. spak i only reviewed unclassified summaries. >> would you be surprised to know that there were thousands of folks who for classified reasons, were not allowed to receive citizenship because they had ties to foreign countries. >> that is not correct. >> you nobly that. >> the citizen applications are actually not classified. >> his classified information is to why they did not receive citizenship. it's >> that is not classified, they give you a written decision telling you why they're being denied. >> see you believe that they have ties to china, and a chinese intelligence services, that there will be a public statement identifying that person is having ties to chinese intelligence where it is that we are staying. >> no i'm staying we do go through the naturalization process is the completed forum and you have an interview and here denied you are given a written statement in writing explain why your denied of naturalization. spilling in that written statement, may not include the reasons for the classified

reasons for you not to be given the privilege of becoming a u.s. citizen. >> they will tell you directly why you know being denied. some xo seriously, you know staying here today that a top secret relationship, top secret information that has been developed during the obama administration by the way that identifies an individual is having a relationship with a chinese intelligence service, that is going to be identified in a public document. that's what you are staying. >> what i am staying is we do apply for citizenship, there is a forum that has two questions including things like what if you have done whose that or the other thing and you have to answered those questions on oath. and if you live on oath, they will deny you naturalization and they will see we are daily denying you because you live to us and said x wasn't true. it's given to the individual.

they don't need to rely unclassified information and they don't. >> so they certainly have access to classified information when the make a decision about weather to grant someone citizenship. >> they don't normally know. among the department of defense doesn't have information to that. >> one agency of the government will work with another agency in the right to determine weather someone has a relationship that would be running to whose country. >> interestingly, they don't pass that information along. whose came out of court proceeding recently that if they have that information, they don't give it to the staff anyway. >> the national class. no one has been denied no veteran has been denied citizenship based on a relationship with a foreign intelligence service. >> i think the case that was raised earlier, he was never nationalized. >> but that's not my question. my question is your understanding is there has never been an individual denied

citizenship of the veteran denied citizen ship is a result of ace relationship with the foreign intelligence service. >> i can answered that because the country has been fighting since 1775. and i can't because it's more than 200 years. but i can tell you that national concern eight concerns, are overblown and that was proven in a court case in seattle with the department of defense came into court and presented the facts to the judge and the judge dismissed them concerning them and staying they were not valid. >> whose into a real simple question. would you be in favor of naturalizing an individual or for them to become an naturalized citizen if they had relationship with the foreign intelligence service. >> i'm not sure what you mean by relationship. >> they work for and receive her name from, a foreign intelligence service to provide information about the united

states of america. >> the individual is the spy, and they failed to reveal that information in the naturalization application when they got nationalized by accident, they could be 19 nationalists is sims the government found out that information that could be prosecuted and departed. i am certainly in favor of that. >> my question is would you be in favor of naturalizing that person. >> i'm not in favor of naturalizing anyone who doesn't meet the requirements of becoming the national citizen. and certainly a spy does not qualify. >> think you very much. >> thank you mr. chairman. i think the witnesses for being here. the u.s. military has long relied on evidence to protect our country. within the united states we have 2.4 million veterans with emigrant ties. we also rely on assistance from foreign nationals abroad including afghanistan and iraq. in january of 2006, congress created a special immigrant visa

ordinance iv, to provide a path to safety in the united states for iraq in translators who work for the u.s. the military and artists of secretly facing danger. whose is simple common sense in my view toward people put their lives on the line to send it to defend our country, the only right thing to do is to make sure that they and their families are protected. primary care now, i've heard from congressman raskin in the number of republican offices to educate private gentlemen who i will call mohammed abroad. the the translator who worked with the u.s. military and several national and international agencies for nearly a decade in afghanistan. and your experience is a lieutenant colonel in the military police work and u.s. army reserve, would you agree that the assistance of native translators in countries like afghanistan and iraq, have been critical to the u.s. military operations in those countries.

>> absolutely yes. it was that makes them operational. >> we need them to understand the local culture and local language. >> loophole of danger that putting himself in when they are great to do the job. smack they're putting themselves in extreme danger and monday have been killed. their family members have been murder because they sided with the united states and the overseas. >> unsurprisingly like mr mr. common due to their service, had faced persistent persecution including assassination that threats from the taliban. one week ago, mr. common was arrested by military police and there is a possibility that he will be disappeared. and yet, the state has denied mr. conference application" discretionary basis. whose case is about larger thing. the data shows that 60 percent drop in a side view drop among

iraqis was even worse from 2500 and 2017, to 181 in 2019. in the drop of over 90 percent. in your opinion, what is causing these delays and drops and omissions. >> fear, on the part of the bureaucrats who are supposed to be conducting background checks on these individuals. they are afraid to approve anyone. it is also a lack of resources and lack of attention by the leadership. they don't seem to want to focus on business process of saving folks and put their lives a live or america. >> can we improve whose program to a t-shirt access for safety for our allies on the sap program. >> they passed a statute that set a deadline but it unfortunately bureaucracy is ignoring the deadline. so i think congress needs to provide strong oversight to ensure the statues are followed. >> what is the process currently look like for an applicant. they're very been vetted to surf

alongside her trips, has brought quite a pit of heavy betting that is already been dead for these individuals. >> they are ready heavily vetted and they have huge files filled with testimonials about their loyal service to the united states. sometimes the rev. period of monday years. it is unclear what exactly is going on in that subsequent betting that seems to take years and years and from what i can to help most it is simply a file being put on chef and nothing happening. snacking beyond the immediate humanitarian inserts protect those who risk their lives for us, another thing that concerns me is the message that we are sending to potential future allies. so how does whose failure to protect these people impact our national securities interested in the ability of our troops to safely do their jobs interact in an instant. >> is quite bad. people who are actually out there that might be wheeling to help us in the future, are going to turn and look at how mohammed was treated and see, i want to take those chance and i'm not

going to help you. tonight mr. chairman of the treatment of people who put their lives on the line, defending our country is just unacceptable weather it is immigrants leaving here who signed up protect our country or people abroad going down so despite significant threat to date and their families lives and it is our duty to stay on alongside these communities and demand justice. i yield back. >> i fully agree with you and i like to call on ms. garcia from the state of texas. >> thank you. for convening whose hearing on whose very important topic. i know whose is something that monday of us in texas are really concerned about. number 20 percent of people who benefit worded the medal of honor, are not born in the united states. my state of texas is found about the second-highest number of noncitizens and second-highest number of veterans in the nation.

therefore texas is home to a high number of noncitizens veterans making whose topic especially important to monday of us particular to monday of my constituents. according to a 2017, report from the national immigration forum, about 40000 immigrants currently surf in the armed forces and about 5000 noncitizens and less each year. it must not forget the people behind his numbers. like mr. lookers who came to the united states when the young boy and his family in 1978, and settled in texas. he graduated from high school and joined the navy. is he says, out of pride for his country and following an honorable discharge he went on to surf in the army national guard. he also worked at his local department of veterans affairs office. while surfing in the navy, will during the persian gulf gulf war, he would do what monday do when they were docked. it would go out drinking.

and perhaps, using it is a way to cope with their anxiety about the work. later in live, unfortunately he was convicted of a dwi he was unable to afford an attorney and was deported back to mexico. when his wife asked him why he can't adjust to live there. is responsibly with whose is in my live. it is true that immigrants are offered the most patriotic americans. they are able to truly appreciate the contrast of how wonderful it is to live in the united states. it has been noted that noncitizens have in fact join the armed services is the revolutionary war and since then, likewise joined ranks the follow-up on site and counterparts to whatever major conflict, help more, but award of 1812, turn in the middle east. so i think our witness here today who speaks for the veterans and all of those who

join today. i began my question with you sir, you said that you don't really get the details about the process. >> when i was in the military, you could go through but nobody really directed me towards the path and i really think that we need make sure that our squad leaders or somebody at some., make sure that that happens. >> to get legal assistance out. >> i'm not sure what it is right now. but some kind of a department. it's been out for almost 20 years. >> my colleague, introduced lori

agents act, a simple bill that would allow veterans to get pastors medicine ship. honorably discharged, and they have not been convicted of involuntary month and slaughter rape sexual abuse of a minor or anything risen and related to present. to support whose. >> yes. >> do you miss pascarella camp? >> i'm not reviewed the bill so i cannot give you an affirmative sterno. >> sums that but one of my colleagues that whose wasn't really double punishment. i'm going to read straight out of the land of the free report from the texas rights project which i like to enter into the record. noncitizens have in fact join armed forces it really is a

double punishment. you go through the criminal justice system when you are convicted on that conviction then used to deport you in your deported sodas double punishme punishment. he said that there was no logic to that. do you agree or disagree that that is double punishment. you ma'am. >> absolutely agree. i percent double punishment. people started the timing criminal because they, they pay the price for the crime and if you go home to family to the citizen families the home. instead they face lifetime management is is if they are surfing a live sentence. because the cavity be with their families in them they can't be with everything they know in live. >> thank you i go back. >> thank you very much i like to call it is from the state of colorado. >> thank you mr. care.

and thank you for hosting whose important hearing. also want to start by taking her veterans in a room i want to thank them is it too hard for your baby bravery and service for her country. is has been said by monday of my colleagues, whose administrati administration, immigrants have been on constant attack including those fighting for our freedom. they have served in the military since the revolutionary war. and continue to surf today. most are lawful permanent residence. about 511,000 foreign-born veterans, are residing in the u.s. and represent 3 percent of the total veteran population. 18.8 million. they feel volatile roles in the military. they're not it not use u.s. citizen records. first example, certain internationals of iraq and afghanistan have served is interpreters. their applications are being delayed which make and can make them at risk of being targeted

for assisting the u.s. the changes, and numerous policies are atrocious in hurting veterans and their families and they have made it hard for military service members and nationalized for the families to adjust status and receive protection for deportation. instead, in my view which we focus on ensuring that veterans receive the medical care they aren't and helping with their immigration cases. they have policies that require to take additional steps and potentially removable noncitizen veterans. however your report found were unaware of the policies in place for veterans in whose proceedings. it is beyond disheartening to hear that our veterans are not being given the appropriate loophole of review on their immigration cases and honest be clear, it is un-american to deport immigrants fighting for our safety and our freedom. we should not leave to feel abandoned and feel helpless. mr. heck of a, i want to first

thank you for your service to our country. >> thank you. >> you chose to enlist in the army at edge 17. is of her five years inured honorable discharge in 2001. is a veteran and is a green card holder, if you lack the protection of citizenship in your deported after surfing time for criminal charge after discharge. could you please walk us through how whose may have been different if you would've received guidance from u.s. military and how to apply for citizenship. either during or after your service. >> i firmly believe the my squad leader would've sat me down and said people see we should hold your hands and they were not there to hold your hand but literally, we are there to show you how to march and make sure that your power of attorney has done so why not make sure we sit down with their soldiers make sure that we are taken care of so that before they go off to afghanistan or vietnam that there are ready use citizen so

it is very important to take care of our soldiers. >> thank you. lieutenant colonel stock, thank you for your service as well. thank you for being here today. in your testimony i believe certainly written testimony, you mentioned that the apartment of defense issued to policy changes in 2017, and have made it harder for military citizens service members to naturalize. from your experience, what is the average time that it takes for service member to receive a response for a certification of our normal service, once they complete their u.s. cis forum and for 26. >> i mentioned earlier, it varies dramatically. right now sometimes they don't get a response at all but it is taking monday months since the policy change pretty used to happen in a matter of minutes. you walk into your local middle terry personal office and a one-page forum, i certify that i am surfing honorably. the clerk would look up your record on the system and you

would get an officer to sign your forum almost immediately. but now is taking months and months. >> and matter of minutes, deviously to now a matter of months. potentially never release receiving an answered. a lot of people tell me they send in a forum and never get an answered. three what message does that send is the sin. >> a lot of lpr his are now contacting me and telling me they are deciding not to join the military. they're going to wait to get there citizenship. it takes about six months. they can file electronically if their civilians and they can't do that is necessary. absent a packet in through the mail to chicago. which is lost in military people often told their pack has been lost. i was in sacramento a couple weeks ago with the greenhalgh holder who had finished all of his training and was applying for citizenship and he walked into the building for his nationalization. i am sorry your lawyer to hear

several thousand miles. we have lost your packet. we're letting you know when we find it, and we have not heard from them ever since. >> thank you. the stories you shared today are stories we certainly need to hear and i hope the administration is listening. thank you. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you for all of the witnesses for being here whose afternoon hearing your stories. and your testimonies. florida is home to one of the largest veteran populations in the country. we actually have the third largest population of veterans in florida and the country around 1.5 million my district is also home to some veterans that have been waiting for the naturalization process. one of the things that i want to make sure very clear, for those

members who have served our country, several of you here, we owe you our deepest respect, and our gratitude but i also hear from service members and veterans about the stress that surfing our country pets and their families and their children. servicemembers sacrifice a great deal and send their loved ones we should not be making the lives for them any harder. our men and women in uniform but their lives alondra and earned the privilege to live and work in our country. and naturalize since in myself and i know how arduous the process is to become a legal u.s. citizen but if we are asking our servicemembers to put their lives on the line, to fight for our freedom we need to make sure that the naturalization process is much easier for them. on whose demonstration we've seen that the number has declined to 44 percent almost

half and it is just on an acceptable. we should not be making it more difficult probable members of our military to naturalize. my first quick question is can you explain to us why those net numbers have dropped significantly in the past two years. >> the drop for a couple of reason deity is made it hard for green her card join the military. second, if you don't drink, you can't apply for naturalization. second they made hard for the forum signed that they need in order to apply. and you can apply that went out those forms and can't get aside, then you are not eligible. and then they made it more difficult to get citizenship they are applying different standards to military people that are inappropriate an example is a woman sitting in the audience today, she was wrongly denied naturalization by u.s. citizenship and immigration services and denied her application while she was surfing on active duty military. she then replied for

naturalization. she was discharged from the military and approve for naturalization after the aco philippe took the case and filed a lawsuit against the government. the case of someone is wrongly denied citizenship they seconded and it makes no sense. >> i'm assuming she wasn't a chinese spy. i think she is from south korea. >> [laughter] fan was reason given to her when she was surfing but was denied. smirked they said she lacked good moral character. >> whose was a catchall term when they come up with some excuse for you know in the military we don't think you should be a citizen so were going to see you lacked good moral character. >> seems like a lot of these changes are just cruel that went out an excavation to that. what is the purpose of changing whose policy do you think.

>> homophobia. >> i can prove it. i can prove it. >> sometimes my colleagues exit doesn't exist. >> by directing the distinguish members of the subcommittee to start taking a look at this so-called [applause] the dod is doing on the immigrants wanting to join the military. they are laughable and bizarre. they see things things like you have a relative that served in the south korean military and it requires you discharged from the military making you. >> - derogatory information. the dod, knew they were immigrants. my definition all of their parents are foreign. if their parents work segment citizens, they would be enemies yet they are being told whose is derogatory information in an

regarding requiring them to discharge from the military. >> no longer considering children is residing in the u.s. for purposes of acquiring u.s. citizenship so kids that are born outside of the united states, their parents are u.s. citizens, are now being denied u.s. citizenship can you talk briefly about that i'm very concerned about whose. >> whose has brought something that the agency warned anybody about ahead of time though off of i'm turn i'm told that they floated it. but no one understood it and immigration law. it would've learned that loss and loss of were going to be affected by whose. but because the agency doesn't understand them? over the didn't realize the claim grown 25 children affected whose untrue. so what happened was he said basically they're going to punish people who choose to be stationed overseas or send overseas and they live in the u.s., because of the

automatically a citizen. big there not leaving the u.s., they're not. and they're going have to file convoluted applications. >> these are kids of the citizenship. thank you i have ran out of time. >> thank you mr. chairman thank you for having whose very important hearing today. monday thanks to our witnesses we really appreciate the time you've spent helping educate the subcommittee on the issue and i want to thank veterans and their families who are in the audience who flew all of the way to washington dc to make sure that it wasn't just your voices that were heard that the voices that you bring with you of all veterans who have had to endure really the trauma that you all have endured for after having served our country and protected our nation thank you for your service and please share my gratitude for the gratitude that

so monday of us have with your fellow servicemembers who have had to endure the same kind of trauma. please tell them we are grateful for their service. i represent el paso texas which is a great state and safe secure city on the mexico border which is also a home to fort. one of the most important military installations in the country. so monday of these issues for me, el paso is in intercession of those issues. immigration and really the attacks on migrants that we have seen on whose administration but also trying to help left and support the veterans and military personnel and it is really, it has been very difficult to watch how our country has turned our backs not just on allies but turned our

backs on servicemembers who have fought honorably for our country and yet whose is the double punishment. there is absolutely no doubt and i just want to remind some of my colleagues that we seem to have come a long way in recognizing how veterans after they have served honorably face these really incredible challenges and reentering into communities especially after being in theater, and sending in the war and so we go the extra step and we have created veterans services programs and we have created a specialty court for fed trends convicted are being tried for dwi for drug related offenses. so that we can continue be there for veterans who have been there for us but it's a different story when the veteran is an immigrant. it appears.

only touch a little bit on, you mentioned the dod background checks. he said some really interesting things about the challenges with those dod background checks. is there an appeals process for a personnel who want to appeal some of those things that you outlined when you work being questioned. >> there wasn't until some of the immigrants have filed a lawsuit now there's a lawsuit pending for the district court for the district of columbia and the army has decided to institute some sort of process due process. because the immigrants were being kicked out of the military that went out being told they are being kicked out. in the army has a grade that it will provide some due process. and again, if you look at these background checks, they are not, they don't have anything to do

with citizenship of availability. military is applying whose top-secret like guidelines to immigrants. and they see that any foreign anything foreign is derogatory. so it is a mismatch enema site to apply those guidelines to determine weather an immigrant is eligible to surf in the military. it causes massive failure rates of the background checks because all the immigrants have foreign parents. they have foreign bank account because they migrated from a foreign country and they had a foreign bank account. they are foreign who served in the south korean military. one of our allies for example that something that caused the failure. so the dod internally have the knowledge they can't get out of it because there's a bureaucratic struggle going on between the folks at the consolidated adjudication facility that clung to their guidelines even though they don't oblige immigrants. and there is now supposed to be some due process but it's funny. and there's still images being

discharged to her not being told wife there being discharged and not giving a chance to review the record. it is a travesty i hope congress will look into it. i think is right for gao investigation into these background checks and i would add that causing the government thousands upon thousands of dollars. to figure out the immigrants have foreign parents. >> thank you i yield back. >> i would like to call on ms. jackson from texas. >> thank you very much mr. chairman and thank you to the witnesses that i hear. if i might, at those who have served in the united states military is her hands. thank you so very much for your service. my applause to you. men and women here, who have served in combat. thank you so very much. i recall being here for 911, and

not trying to give anything to a story but i remember is the call came for individuals for the tradition and commitment to one's country and the chairman, there were numbers and numbers of legal permanent residents who heated the crime both for war in afghanistan and the war in iraq. interestingly enough i have no recollection of any i.c.e. involvement on anything. i do remember a series legislative initiatives to provide for opportunity for soldiers in theater. to be naturalized. naturalization ceremonies were going on. it's very interesting. the country was in need, men and

women who either immigrants themselves are immigrants parents, wearing the uniform unselfishly and offer their lives. there are legal current residents who are in the nation his cemeteries today. iraq and afghan wars. so am baffled about where we are today. and i think whose is the very important hearing but i also believe whose should be to the attention of the armed services committee. if there was joint legislation it would have to be an accommodation with the arm services committees of the department of defense can wake up. and forgive me, if these questions have been answered but there is a standard that isis is supposed to utilize their dressing veterans. they need to consider it

criminal history financial times, employment and health and community services. it comes to my attention with our report, the sum of the folks in i.c.e., don't even know they are supposed to do that. or handling list of criteria to even address. so if i could ask folks, actor, and jodi, first if you can tell me what kind of complexity that puts your members or he would enact with when they're not given any fair assessment by the local i.c.e. officer because they are not seeing washington piercing weiss where they are. could you answered that please. >> shirt it creates a problem.

one thing that could be fixed is when i went to la county jail the ashley asked me if i was a veteran or not. in the book with front certain procedures. deftly in, they don't even ask you. so that probably didn't even know what procedures to take so deftly need to make sure that the government is accountable for that. >> so we need to put in a separate construct for veterans, at least require a bowl, immigration services are i.c.e. component, you have to ask the question. you have to prioritize veteran immigrants in your assessment of naturalization of processing rather than i have lost your packet. so insecure and insignificant bloodlust your packet. can you help us with the work that you do and the frustration i guess that you face. >> we have to address it on two fronts. first on the front end, where the person is encountering i.c.e. there should be a requirement that a minimum i.c.e. asked

every person weather or not there either surfing the military or are a veteran. we know that doing that. second they should actually implement policies that they have and ideally improve the policies to actually do that assessment to know if they are new veteran interview that assessment and weigh all of the equities and everything else about the live weather removal actually is sensible policy decision. but then on the back and we also have to ensure that even devices put someone into proceedings that are law accounts for the fact that somebody may have served our country and deserves to remain in the united states. i want to correct something that was said earlier by mr. metcalf his is very important. law 1996 eliminated all judicial determination including cancellation of removal. cancellation of removal was not available fracture when he was being deported from his country.

the law 96, eliminated any ability for a judge to consider military service as well is any other equities a person would apply. so we have to address it. with i.c.e. a simple policy. well also have two uphold the law. >> mr. metcalf would you like to respond. >> i just want to tell you, i was a judge in miami. i can't tell you that every case would come before me on the rubric has been testified to would have survived and challenge of cancellation from the government and i know that i granted 75 percent and 80 percent of the applications that came before me and them he also had i was typical of judges across the country and we do add the view me we do have the veteran his overall criminal history, his or her rehabilitations, family and financial ties to the u.s., employment history community service in addition to duty status was on using and

decorated aborted, that is calling on the judge to do a much deeper dive. to cause also on the agency looking at that person to do a deeper dive. now i suggest you that when judges have that kind of blush in front of them on the administrative take the you know going to consider that to be informed by that in their judgments is certainly informed mine on people who were not in front of me is veterans. but is people who had a host of problems which prompted u.s. to see the removal. so i want to balance the opini opinion. >> thank you. if i can i'm going to yield. >> i think the disconnect here is the statue hearts judges from granting any relief on cancellation of removal to regard all those who are convicted of a so-called

aggravated felony and if a man can give you an example i know of an individual surfing currently on active duty in the navy was a career navy person who long ago got convicted of something called obstruction of justice in virginia at the time a very minor offense he was told that it would not have any impact on his military career and he went on to surf a full career in the united states navy they apply for citizenship, he was told that whose is an aggravated felony and immigration law and has brought eligible for citizenship and told him he would not be deported until he leaves the navy so try to put off his retirement if you know in front of the honorable and more metcalf, he would not be eligible for cancellation of removal because the government considers it to be aggravated. >> i would take those deeper dive mr. chairman. >> requires us to look to the options of the individual who's been victimized. so i've yield back. >> thank you.

i can, pennsylvania. >> thank you very much. and thank you for your testimony all of you on the important issue. the impact of current immigration policy, and their families. i think it is really important that we look at the impact and the cost for national security. international honor. of the current administration and the impact they are having on the armed forces and those who work with us. the fact that we are breaking our word to men and women who put their lives in the line for their country, is profoundly disturbing to me. i also want to note the irony that of the two portraits that hang on the floor of the house of representatives, what is george washington and another is a foreign national the phosphorus that would be the marquis to lafayette. so certainly we have a long

history in whose country of relying upon persons of goodwill who may not be american citizens. but with respect to the impact on our national security, i have some familiarity with the issue of whose abby applicants, the iraqi and afghani, national who work with our armed forces. before i came here, almost a year ago, i worked with the hard rock group. there are a law students about term volunteers would represent iraqi and afghan and translators drivers who worked with our armed forces and in particular recall one gentleman whose work with our armed forces and if any and is the translator for five years. and when he recognized a taliban member in one of our bases and reported him thereby saving the lives of monday of our forces he then had to go into hiding. and he remained in hiding with

his family for four years. while his application was processed. he did finally get here but it was a long process and i certainly heard additional folks who had more difficulty and have been unable to get the applications process. the impact on national security is huge. i recall if you had figures on what the processing rates are at whose.if you could respond that. >> is my written testimony. so i would refer to that. >> they have dropped down. >> they have dropped significantly in the travel ban has affected the ability of the applicants. processing an uptick in people who have been approved initially but now suddenly, for mysterious reasons for unknown to anybody they have been revoked and there is an appeal process that doesn't work. they send the request for information and the allegations in the number her anything

again. in fact that an e-mail today from hearing the summit incident response to completely erroneous allegations made against them after he was granted a piece of it that they revoked it and he said in his rebuttal proven conclusively that these allegations to her he hasn't heard anything. >> our case was very similar. meditate all of the way up to the court of appeals. >> with respect i was also concerned about the testimony concerning folks who join our military but the expectation that they would become citizens and the fact that her military is now having trouble recruiting citizens to build those. can anyone on the panel speak to that. >> special operations command has conveyed to me that they're having trouble finding people his big languages of the countries in which they are operating. and if whose has reached a critical. they can't find people. in a group of people that were

helpful are the folks that know about cyber work. it is just a fact that we have a lot of legal eminence in the united states of great cyber skills. but the camp with them to work the next day celeste their american citizens. if you have to be an american citizen to get a security clearance. and if they can't get into military and the can get their citizenship so they can fill the ranks of cyber command and cyber command is short. >> so in a country that is always relied on the skills. were turning people away from one of our most highest and important duties. >> that's correct. >> i yield back. >> thank you. let me first of all, include today's hearing first i want to make a couple of comments which is a lot of the policies that we are talking about here has brought a democratic or republican issue. a lot of the policies regarding today received a current administration think back to democratic administrations.

i am hoping that my colleagues from the side of the aisle will join us and come up with some good comments in legislation and your witnesses here today, you identified some very solid public policy decisions proposal that we need to move forward in and we can because whose is about america and about keeping your commitment to our veterans and making sure that no soldier is left behind. i am hoping we can move forward and let me thank all of the witnesses here today in our veterans that are here today who can never thank you enough for your service to our country. i'm going to conclude whose hearing by once again thanking the panelists in our witnesses and that went out objection all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions. and for the witnesses who additional materials for the record, and i look forward to continuing to work with you. that went out objection, whose

committee is now concluded. [background talk about a

faster timetable for the program. >> as i have consistently said the f 35 program is one of my priorities earlier this month i made a commitment to come back when we were ready to announce the next contract and we are. the program milestone authority the f 35 program we are here to announce us department of defense and lockheed martin that now has an agreement regarding the option contract this is a stark milestone to the f 35

enterprise as it is the largest taxpayer investment with the backbone of us and ally fifth generation inventory for the foreseeable future. the joint program office are laser focus to drive cost ou out, quality up and achieving timely deliveries to our war fighters. with respect to on-time deliver delivery, we exceeded the total aircraft quantity we delivered to the war fighter last year and have 96 percent on-time delivery rate. a tremendous improvement for one - - from where we were last year with an average on-time delivery rate of 64 percent. while we made progress there is significant opportunities for improvement and we continue to communicate specific concerns to lockheed based on the data we collect. the 34 billion-dollar agreement f 35 production

includes the delivery of 478 f 35 aircraft 149 lot 12160 lot 13169 lot 14 in support of us military services our partner nations and sales customers this represents our continued commitment to reduce the f 35 cost to deliver advanced capabilities to our war fighters at the best value to taxpayers. there are several notable achievements that the contract represents. first the first time the f 35 joint program office will award a significant f 35 procurement in the same fiscal year as the congressional

appropriations. second to reach a unit flyaway cost per aircraft of $80 million for the us f 35 price which is one earlier than planned which is a significant milestone the f 35 enterprise will continue to stay in the contract award for example the f-35 unit cost represents an estimated overall 12.8 percent reduction from the 11 cost from the content on - - conventional landing variants of 35 b landing costs and overall 12.3 percent reduction for the short takeoff and landing variants. the f-35 c unit cost and overall reduction over the 11

cost for the carrier with an average of 12.7 percent savings across all three variants a lot - - lots 11 to 14 these are the biggest achieved savings. this contract will allow us men and women in uniform alongside the f-35 partners to maintain a competitive advantage with the unmatched fifth generation capability. understandably there will be questions today on the deviation i told you about earlier this month delaying to integrate the f-35 into the joint environment infrastructure and we will provide more detail on that shortly. i have full faith and confidence in the f-35 program and our ability to deliver

combat capability anywhere in the world. make no mistake the f-35 is the world's most advanced, lethal and interoperable aircraft ever developed. thank you to congress for their continued support for the fighter program i look forward to speak with members and staff to provide updates and answer questions so their leadership is greatly appreciated. as the f-35 continues to grow we are also growing our sustainment capabilities to ensure these aircraft are ready and capable. due to the efforts across the f-35 enterprise, dod operational unit capability increase from 55 percent october 2018 from 73 percent september 2019. we were making progress we are not where we need to be industries commitment on

accelerating improvement. our focus is on improved f-35 readiness and with the affordability goals we play a focus on accelerating our repair capability with sleep modifications and improving logistics information systems with functionality and responsiveness as of last month 440 aircraft have been delivered at 17 bases worldwide with 850 pilots and 8200 maintain turkey the f-35 there has been no change to return to the f-35 program the defense system which is incompatible remains in turkey and as i said previously turkey makes nearly 1000 parts and will continue to do so

until those responsibilities transfer until the end of march lockheed martin is responsible for that supply chain i will defer any questions to them. in closing i want to reiterate how regrettable it is that we are under a continuing resolution. causing great damage to military readiness to disrupt our ability to modernize our strategic forces for i strongly urge congress to pass appropriations and offer a bill now so we can move forward with the many important programs needed for our adversaries. and with a two-year budget agreement to provide that budgetary certainty to implement the national defense strategy.

now i will let the lieutenant general make a statement that i will answer questions. >> thank you ladies and gentlemen for your interest in the f-35 program. what we announced yesterday in a number of ways not the least of which 478 aircraft and $34 million it in includes international partners totaling f-35 bees and 41 f-35 c. i am proud to be here representing the enterprise to share my thoughts on the state of the program. are initial and development effort came to a close after the evaluation but as you are aware with that decision as such time as available to have

the assessment of the program we are working hard with lockheed martin to fully integrate the complex synthetic environment is not only critical to the completion but is important to future modernization efforts. to that end when the program has reached operational capability for all services united kingdom italy japan, and israel and is about to do so in norway, we understand the need to continue to stay say it stays relevant over time. that mandate capabilities is on a very tight timeline and strongly influenced that is a standard industry today that capability development we have

for software releases using these primarily on the correction of minor deficiencies but also have resulted in deliveries the knife life-saving capabilities of the automatic ground forces. to work with those operational requirements the process will mature and continue to deliver that capability over time to ensure they stay ahead of the threat for go to capture well yesterday significant savings for taxpayers the joint program office of lockheed martin we work tirelessly on this deal and i'm very proud for the work they have done. with this award we will see from the production perspective the most dramatic rate increase of the production line is behind us

149 aircraft representing only a 6 percent increase over the quantity of the delta for lot 14 and 13. you will recall it was a full 50 percent higher than lot ten to 65 percent greater this dramatic production rate for the supply chain with the quantity changes should give some breathing room as we move forward. the stabilization will help with the production line in the hybrid support has reached full operation and is currently sustaining 440 aircraft around the world including the us, norway, israel, ital us, norway, israel, italy, uk, d japan and operating around the

world the netherlands will join us later this week. from the performance perspective the secretary of defense mission capability mandate we definitely continue to move the needle with the operational fleet up from october 2018. so within that same time frame mission capable levels well above 80 percent are we finished quack snow. but not all of that progress is due to what is implemented as a result of the sustainment plan unlike many other plans

like it this is executable. and with that modification it with that repair capacity enhancing that reliability. all of those actions are ongoing today. and that is attributable to operating and sustaining the suppressive air system. they are doing with airmen and marines sailors do and continue to work closely with that war fighting potential. and going from initial development high reproduction as a partner with lockheed

martin cost effective award-winning capabilities in these departments as well to transition away from the cost focus incentives that for the development contracts so with that process that i mentioned previously the production contracts than those that drive cost reduction and improve production line velocity and those that ensure war fighters of the assistant that they need including multiyear contracts and then to define the parameters that

operational demand taxpayers best value demand with greater organic involvement so let me be here to represent the men and the women and i'm looking forward to your question. >> a couple weeks ago someone that involved would ask why they are putting out a contract with forward production if that's suitable. so that's for the general. was at the first tranche of the 34 billion or 6 billion on

in that joint simulation environment cracks. >> first of all the department has full confidence the air force and marine corps have squadrons and they are very happy with the capability the criteria in terms of getting out is to test against the threats we will see ten years from now we can only do that that is only 90 percent of the testing with that configuration of the aircraft and the public should be actually careful bull one - - comfortable the aircraft is out there today to codify the

capability of the aircraft when we get to the testing. >> so this is part of a series of contracts so if we look at what was previously announced and then worked on previously associated with the ongoing work the announcement yesterday added 114 aircraft and an obligation of $7 billion and in addition to that obligation that was not included as it was already

made. >> we are still roughly left with 100 aircraft to go in with those services so we don't have that budget yet. until we have such time. >> it has been obligated piecemeal. >> so the jsd on - - e-allows us those capabilities of wide range of air and surface that

the director of operational in his role to assess the current threat and then getting into the environment like the js e- but the integration of the f-35 as was mentioned previously the validation of verification will begin this fall and then it will continue throughout the spring. >> thank you for doing this. could you explain to the layperson for the aircraft of all the parts that we need to have this conversation from

aircraft. >> let me give that a shot. traditionally we try to get a deal but then we build the sustainment behind that. right now as eric mentioned throughout the integrated supply chain and what we have found we did not have the throughput so we are lagging in some of those. and to have issues in these areas. and then wingtip lenses. those are the areas that are holding us back. we believe we are making very good progress.

>> and then if you replace them with another but in my prepared remarks it would be a celebration not just lockheed and how they process aircraft in their production line but it is adding parts at a dramatically increasing rate and then not just from production but from another perspective and then putting additional purchases on contract. but then also to take action within the existing supply chain and then to repair those parts as they come available that's been a huge part of the

effort. >> i have a few numbers questions. if i heard you write, you said 149 aircraft cracks is that correct cracks if so the original number was 157 aircraft so what is the reason for the difference? is it security cracks and they say there's an average 12.8 percent reduction and again with a handshake deal it said there was a drop of around 15 percent. so is that non- apples to apples comparison quick.

>> i cannot address the 157. i'll have to go back and figure out where that number came from but relative to the discrepancy of the reduction that you may have heard the air vehicle production for the a models was 15.3 percent in the c models 14.6 percent and adding in the reductions of the overall unit recurring flyaway cost those engine rates are only down on the order so if you pull that together it's the overall reduction of cost about 12 percent roughly.

>>. >> they think in five years they can have the airplane at the next logical generation can you explain for us maybe the other services how they will accommodate and how that will also be squared. >> with the f-35 the air force team is doing innovative things in terms of developing new fighter aircraft. we are looking at total capability versus adversary and we find places the f-35 and the f-15. so we continue and optimize

and then we take all of this with that engineering approach. >> at this point there is no revision. >> no. >> can you provide more details on the technical issues with that joint simulation environment cracks if you mention those agreements and to say if that was in place by 2025 so with that position as well do you not think that's going on with that quick.

>> first relative i would not characterize that technically challenging to overcome there's just a lot of smaller hurdles ultimately we have a digital representation to integrate into that space with those weapons and environmental effects and we are integrating them together. that's just a very large task. there could be some disagreements with lockheed martin and then we would go back but then lockheed proprietary and then agreed to work out of that proprietary environment. and with that facility in the

js e-would allow us to work with that aircraft. that's the reason we went there again because there was a lot of work to be done to do that integration. but now the system rules lose pieces into which is relative to those interactions. >>. >> i don't know if we underestimated in particular but that relationship is side-by-side and i think were making decent progress. >> both predecessors talk

about the relationship and your thoughts on how you characterize that relationship. >> between myself and everyone else the relationship is much improved. i know at my level they talk regularly and i will let you speak for your own relationship but i have a very open and trusting relationship with my counterpart. it is still a business and we work through that balance every day between taxpayer and war fighter with a friendly solution.

>>. >> and then working with the prime contractor. >> thanks for doing this. going back to turkey, couple of questions what about the deployment and is turkey's slow rolled or delayed as were working on this through march as those costs are increased quick. >> first of all we enjoy very good relationships with turkey and they are an excellent

supplier. at this point i lost some of your questions and we anticipate to be fully operational by the end of the year. >> you said no delay quick. >> turkey had been very forthcoming to be on the path of march 2022 transition. we, the us because we took responsibility to move those out that is a 600 million-dollar bill for that we are still working through any price adjustments that would be relatively modest of any adjustment that could take plac place. >> when will the delay of the

decision actually start to affect production cracks is it inevitable it will delay down the line quick. >> i will issue documents before the holiday. >>. >> what role is osd? doesn't sound like the air force is doing a whole lot of talking with the navy and i know how messed up the navy j s e-is. so the wonderful functions is to act as the corporate entity so that's the reason i have a technical staff so what we do

is bring services together to pass along critical information and i do that was service acquisition executives where waldo may not be totally up to speed with everything going on in the navy i will tell you members of the team are very involved in that with both air force and navy in the joint program office to cycle in and out also integration offices. one of the reasons osd exist is to have that cross pollination. >> and to have international

demand and then maybe a little bit further afield. >> let me say there is no significant change in pricing to drive decisions one way or the other. we have quite a few active discussions. >> we do among others who are interested in pursuing overall. i will not rattle them off now but you can think of them as potential customers. >> we will stop there do you have closing remarks quick. >> thank you for coming today and you will see a renewed focus over the next 12 months out of my office working and we are taking a data driven

approach so we are working hard the mission capability where the flights per hour are driven and that we come up with a situation with the war fighter as well as a taxpayer. >> individual parts. >> thank you. >> [inaudible] i would not characterize that. i would not characterize that. . . organization.

it also included testimony from other environmental advocates in a plastic industry representative. >> the subcommittee on oceans of wildlife will come to order. it may look like congressman hoffman but i'm not. congressman hoffman is back in sonoma dealing with the wildfires that are there and was unable to get back here to washington. we are all hoping that the fire subsides and many people are safe and that mr. huffman returned. without the subcommittee on will

oceans and wildlife will come to order. a testimony on a sea problems. the impact of plastic pollution on oceans and wildlife. under committee rule 4f, any oral opening statement at the hearing are limited to the chairman, the ranking minority member, the vice chair and the vice ringing member. this will allow us to hear from our witnesses sooner and help keep to their schedules. so therefore i ask in the owner's consent to all members opening statements be made part of the hearing record if there submitted to the subcommittee clerk by 5:00 p.m. today or the close of the hearing, whichever comes first, hearing no objections, so ordered. i will open up now and i want to welcome all the witnesses and today were here to discuss the

pressing environmental issue and that is plastic pollution. certainly single-use plastic has made life easier. but these materials come at a much higher cost than many would like to admit. plastic for centuries in the natural environments are found nearly everywhere on our planet, last year i witnessed the impact of plastic pollution on wildlife in antarctica, one of the few places on earth that is been untouched by human activity but certainly not untouched by the scourge of plastics. personally i've been involved in trying to tackle the growing plastic crisis for over 20 years, working with my constituents and friends, captain charles moore who created the scientific research organization leader and did some of the early research on the plastic garbage.

there is an estimated 8 million metric tons of plastic that into the ocean each year at a rate about one garbage truck per minute threatening biodiversity and accumulating in the seafood that we eat in the water that we drink, plastics have been found in water samples right here in the capitol visitor center. plastics are making climate change worse, the global lifecycle admissions from one year plastic production throughout the united states are about the same as 462 coal-fired power plans per year end that number is rising. plastic production is an environmental justice issue also. it's a chemical factory and incineration facilities are often located in low-income communities where local health impacts and air quality impacts are quite significant but frequently are ignored.

finally in the subcommittee we need to look at solutions to deal with ghost fishing gear, fishing gear that's been lost at sea but continues to catch fish, marine mammals, turtles, birds and corals. it is clear we need to reduce plastic pollution. higher recycling commitments and bands and taxes on single-use plastic items can be part of the solution. but we must expand our tools to address the growing environmental and public health problem. in this committee we switch to reusable pictures and glasses for water rather than the disposable plastic water bottles we see so often around the capital. but not every switch is as easy and not everyone has the option. the financial burden of cleaning up pollution should not be solely on the taxpayers. it is imperative that the companies and manufacturers that

sell these products take ownership of their environmental impacts, congress needs to step up. it is for this reason i've been working in comprehensive legislation with senator udall, our legislation seeks to create a more circular approach by putting in an extended producer responsibility program, implementing recycling content standards and phasing out certain single use only items have more sustainable alternatives. i'm excited to announce we should have a discussion draft of this legislation quite soon. which we will disseminate publicly and i encourage all of you to let me know your thoughts and comments after it is released. some federal agencies are also doing their part, th marine debs program funded 14 new projects addressing aspects of this problem.

however, $2.7 million provided to these projects doesn't even come close to addressing the scale of the ocean plastic problem. the bottom line is this, we need to do more, we need to look at a broader range of solutions, are they going to prevent wildlife from being strangled and to keep micro plastics from ending up on her plate. with that, i look forward to hearing more from our witnesses about their ideas and i will now invite the ranking member to share his remarks. >> thank you, mr. chairman, the subcommittee meets to hear testimony on plastics and their impact on oceans. from the written testimony it appears the majority is blaming american consumers for the plastic waste that reaches her oceans and proposing to place restrictions on them that will dramatically reduce the convenience and higher quality of life of plastics contributed to our modern society while

increasing cost dramatically. blaming america first seems to be a recurring theme. but the fact painted a very different picture. , the environmental science and technology magazine found between 88 and 95% of all the plastic debris that enters her oceans comes from ten rivers, none of which close to the united states, eight are in asia and two in africa. according to a 2015 study, the top 20 remaining class under plastic produces 10.6 million metric tons of plastic debris. the united states generated just 0.11 million metric tons, barely 1%. in the entire united states contributed less waterborne plastic pollution than north korea. so who does the majority blame? american consumers.

what is dean kilpatrick once observed, they always blame america first. according to the epa, americans have increased plastic recycling from 20000 tons in 19823.1 million tons in 2015, that's a 155 fold increase. american consumers go to great links to responsibly dispose of plastic waste and the numbers show that. american consumers are heroes, not villains in the fight against plastic pollution of her oceans. we should celebrate them and not punish them. yet that is just what the restrictions on plastic use would do. starting with a 1.7 million families who depend on plastic manufacturing to put food on the table, roofs over their heads and taxes in our government conference. my home state of california where 80000 californians are directly employed in the plastic

industry. misplaced object appears to be single use plastic containers, toothpaste two shampoo bottle, plastic back, plastic is used once and discarded it takes between 50 and a thousand years to decay. if they were properly disposed in americans do, i have to ask what exactly is the problem. most common single-use packaging of the world once we progress from animal skins and gourds was ceramic. a massive hill called mount pistachio in rome. which is not degraded in nearly 2000 years, yet the world means were infinitely better off for it. which begs the question, if were going to band single-use plastic containers, what will replace them? how about your toothpaste,

before plastics toothpaste came in classical metal tubes, they found this more environmentally friendly container, the toothpaste tube was invented to protect consumers from the unhygienic practice of getting toothpaste in glass jars and dipping your toothbrush into them. shall we return to class? before that toothpaste came in powder form and cardboard boxes which required mixing a batch every time you wanted to brush her teeth. plastics have largely replaced aluminum the best container to protect against food spoilage. before aluminum it was ten. that takes 4 pounds stripmining and seven and a half kilowatts of electricity to make 1 pound of aluminum. the plastic critics really think it environmentally friendly alternative is to return to the era of metal containers? before metal glass was commonly used. glass takes 1 million years to decompose, a thousand times

longer than decomposition. i suppose we could go back to cardboard and paper but i remember the campaign a decade ago demand paper bags as wasteful and environmentally offensive so we replace them with plastic. which of not attracted the environmental left. single-use plastic properly disposed of in greater convenience and lower prices for american consumers in a much smaller environmental footprint than all packaging materials they replace. i'm interested in hearing why americans who have an exemplary record of responsible plastic disposal recycling are to blame for the excesses of other people in other countries by the same americans should be punished with higher prices, less convenience and the lower standard of living. finally i would like to know what the plastics are alternative to plastic containers they have not ready or rejected over the years. i

yield back. >> i'm going to ask a unanimous consent that the general person from new mexico representative holland be allowed to sit on the dice and participate in today's proceedings. >> without objection. that is ordered. >> i'm going to introduce our witnesses. our first witness is mr. ted dancing, you might know him as michael on the go place or sam on cheers but he is also the vice chair of board of directors at oceana where he has been closely involved since its inception. our next witness will be juan perez who is the founder and

executive director at the texas environmental justice advocacy service. following him will hear from doctor jenner, professor of environmental engineering at the university of georgia in the lead author of a groundbreaking study on plastic. and finally, our last witness will be tony who is the president and ceo of the plastics industry association. let me remind the witnesses under our committee rules, they must limit their oral statements to five minutes. the entire statement will appear in the hearing record. when you begin the witness table

will turn green, after four minutes, the yellow light will come on andrew time will have expired when the red light comes on and i'll ask you to please complete your statement. all allow the entire panel to testify for questioning witnesses. the chair now recognizes mr. dancing for testify. welcome to our committee. >> i like to think the chair and ranking member and members of the community to testify on plastic pollution. i am the vice chair and board of directors. it is the largest international advocacy organization dedicated solely to ocean conservation. i have been working on ocean issues for 30 years in the late 1980s i cofounded the american oceans campaign which has joined with oceana in 2002. i'm here to testify today about the growing problem of plastic pollution that is threatening our oceans. almost in the moment we wake up

to the time we go to bed we are faced with throwaway plastic. we face it when we brush our teeth with a toothbrush made of pasplastic and squeeze toothpase out of a plastic tube, when we wash her hair with shampoo and conditioner with plastic bottles, the rest of the routine might include one or several coffees and cups with plastic lids, lunch and plastic take-out containers, plastic utensils, grocery shopping were single-use plastic is unavoidable. there is no place on earth untouched by the pollution from all the plastic. a list of marine animals affected by plastic pollution grows, plastic is consumed by 90% of seabird species and eaten by every species of sea turtle even the cornell' corals are threatened. in addition to polluting the marine environment plastic poses a risk to human health. were seeing plastic inner water, food, soil, air and bodies.

plastic particles have been found in everything from honey, deer, salt and tea. plastic is affecting the climate, if plastic was a country, it would be the planet's fifth largest emitter of greenhouse gases. the plastic production rate anticipated to increase so will plastic effect on the climate and oceans. most important thing to remember about plastic, and last for centuries. this is what makes single-use plastic so profoundly flawed. they are created from a material made to last forever but designed to be used once and thrown away. simply improving recycling rates will not solve the plastic crisis. all the plastic waste, only 9% have been recycle. that means a vast majority was sent to a landfill incinerated or ended up polluting the national environment.

including our oceans. recycling is like trying to mop up water from an overflowing bathtub while the faucet is still running. we need to turn off the faucet and reduce the production of plastic. companies need to reduce the amount of single-use plastic they are putting onto the market and offer consumers plastic free choices of their products. unfortunately companies are not doing enough, that's why we need your help. policies governing the production of single-use plastic are affected. these policies are becoming more common around the world and across this country. the european union, peru, chile and canada have all announced or implementing policies to reduce plastic pollution. u.s. cities, counties and states have taken the initiative passing policies to reduce

single-use plastics. ultimately, comprehensive u.s. federal action is needed. this committee should use its authority to tackle the problem, i applaud you for stopping the use of plastic water bottles at committee hearings. a park service had a policy to encourage national parks to sell water in plastic bottles. unfortunately policy has been reversed, the committee should make the national parks, wildlife refugees, marine sanctuaries and other federal lands' end waters into single-use plastic free zones. i urge congress to pass federal legislation stops plastic pollution at the source. significantly reduces the production of the everlasting pollution. and hold corporations responsible to the global crisis and enable states and cities to continue to lead the way on solutions. don't fall for the false promise of recycle.

and please don't stoop to incineration. we must stop the runaway increase in plastic production and reduce the amount of plastic companies are making and forcing on us because it will last for centuries. we have no more time to waste. >> thank you, the turnover recognizes yes, sir perez to testify for five minutes welcome to the committee. >> thank you. thank you chairman and ranking member. i am with the texas environmental advocacy. we have been working on environmental justice issue for over 16 years, we work at the intersection of human rights and social justice issues and we call houston home ensuring that with the biggest complex in the nation and the second largest in the world. it's also the largest city with

no zoning meaning we have chemical plant in other industries and infrastructures on the defense line of communities ordering them. read. . . . released by many different

interests industrial forces located along the channel. over the last several years the petrochemical complex has been expanding. we began cracking in missions. terminals centered around one thing we understood this expansion however we understand the nature economic shift from production -- as it expands the we have seen an increase in the most recent, 37 people were

injured along with third degree burns and workers were initially evacuated [inaudible] they've malfunctioned during the event and community members in the end variable quality data to protect their health. [inaudible] exxon mobil july 31 with 37 workers were injured and one

september 20 to 2019 or 9 chemicals collide after the storm. it continues as it is expected and consumption of oil by the sector will account for 20% of the total consumption by 202050. the reasons to be uncovered the facilities in the region and violated air pollution control over the last five years and were subject to environmental enforcement. but they were not penalized. including the increased risk for developing cancer and other health conditions.

[inaudible] and immigrant people that paid the price over the lifespan of the children and elderly is and i see that i'm out of time but i've also lived miwill spend my. >> thank you. >> thank you chairman and ranking member. and the rest of the subcommitt subcommittee. i'm honored to be here to testify. i'm a professor of environmental engineering at the university of georgia and national geographic fellow i've been conducting research for 23 years with

related projects for 18 projects regarding location and spatial analysis and global management. sailing across the atlantic in 2015 and it was funded by the program in 2011 where over 2 million items have been lost by people all over the world. i previously testified to the senate on this issue. i'm also a participant in the international information program with the u.s. state department and this has brought me to 13 different countries and economies around the world to engage with governments, academics, ngos and citizens on this issue. my opinion based upon my background and experience conducting research.

i spoke to educate and raise awareness that we now know we have a major problem with plastic ending up in the environment and in the ocean. it is used for the packaging and single use items and 6.3% had become waste by 2015 for what have we done with that and how do we manage it? another 12% have been incinerated as a 79% have ended up either in a landfill or the open environment. it is fragmented into smaller and smaller pieces you've heard

the number in the science paper in 2015 we estimated the global plastic entering at 8 million tons in 2010 the quote about a dump truck of plastic entering every minute. in the intervention framework i developed in 2016 we start all the way upstream with reducing waste generation especially in places with highs per person like here in the usa is the wae generation rate is two to six times i've thought of many countries around the world it is

with individual choice and industry lead changes. for the end-of-life management of the materials currently the waste management system had to deal with whatever comes their way. this is one factor to the historical practice of 50% of the recycling to others primarily those of lower income. they make sure every voice is heard someone reminder i always have to give there are people behind all the numbers i gave so we need to come up with creative, socially and culturally appropriate solutions. i'm optimistic we can do that and i will continue to work hard on science to inform the policy and everyone has an important

role to play. i want to try to experiment. first for the next 24 hours take note of everything you touch that is plastic. it makes you reflect upon when and where to use the material. you won't likely have to go far and each message the figurative or sometimes literal message in a bottle * of three questions. one, what is it they take the action for their countries need

for the committee. thank you. >> the chair now recognizes the chair to testify. welcome to the committee. >> good afternoon, chairman and ranking member mcclintock and members of the subcommittee can give for having me here today. i am the president and ceo of the plastics industry association. we call ourselves plastics for short and use the term probably. developed by john wesley heights in the 20th century as a replacement for billiard balls. it was expensive into the process of collecting it was gruesome and inhumane. the story of plastics from the genesis through today they make

surgery is less invasive, receptive and affordable and in a century and a half they made cars, trucks and planes more efficient or affordable or friendly and ultimately safer. plastic pipes take wastewater away for treatment in the most economical and environmentally sustainable way. they've also made food last longer across the world. the plastics industry employed 990,000 people in the united states and with the largest number is california where 79,700 men and women are directly employed by the industry. i can say with confidence none of them got into this business to pollute waterways and i can also say with confidence they enter with a passion to improve the safety and quality of a lot of people. our products end up where they

shouldn't accept me and the people that work in the industry i'm sure feel the same way but it's a fact. it's also affects 8 million tons of plastic ends up in the world's ocean each year 90% of which the remaining 10% comes from elsewhere around the world and that is a great deal of value when the products end up in lakes, rivers and oceans. the industry agrees there is a plastic waste problem urgency of the situation cries out for a solution more thoughtful to the material that lowers greenhouse gas emissions and efficient to produce than other materials like metal, paper and gas and has delivered numerous benefits to society as a whole. study after study including one conducted recently by the water board showed banning plastic products drives consumers and other materials and there's a minor impact on lettering if any at all in the free-market

society the consumers decide what provides the best performance into so many applications the chief characteristics of plastics is a lower weight, but ability, flexibility and versatility we need to move in the opposite direction for the values that are too much to waste. we continue to support the legislation that will provide grants the industry itself

stepped up to the challenge by innovating like it always has chemistries into the recycling collection technology developing ways to convert plastic waste to energy and create the supply to meet the demand. perhaps i can sum up the position of a quote from the prime minister. we should not treat it as an enemy or ostracized those who use it. what is needed is the management of trash and solutions through innovation. on a personal note, i love this industry. i've worked for it for nearly 40 years and i sincerely believe plastics are among the greatest

innovation is and to deliver and enormous benefits to public health and congress over the world. we need to learn to live with these materials because i can assure you we would never want to live without them. thank you and i look forward to your questions. >> i'm going to remind the members of the committee the role imposes a five-minute limit on questions. have questions to ask members of the panel of witnesses and i'm going to recognize myself for five minutes of questions. i first question goes to jan and i want to follow-up on something that you said but also something that the ranking member spoke about in his introduction where he said there is no problem here in the united states. the real amount of plastics in

the ocean that come from other countries, asian countries and african countries. you know in your work how much of a waste is entering from china, vietnam and other countries. can you tell us is this the real picture of the origins and can you tell us more about the full impact of the united states contributing to the ocean's degree and has been partially hidden by the reliance on exporting or waste to primarily asia? can you try to help us respond to that? >> that is a good question, but certainly when we first did the calculations of plastic into the ocean we could take into account the import export aspect, so

what we did see where these factors to rapidly develop where the infrastructure to manage the waste that comes with increased waste generation and that comes with economic growth but infrastructure was lagging behind. the areas that have been referred to hear many of them are developing in terms of contribution to the global plastic, we are a major contributor. what has become an issue in

terms of the recycling to make it easier we can put everything into one main. that meant commodities. they need the material becoming the manufacturing hub of the world that sets up a rapid increase in exporting the recycled materials and for me we looked at recycled plastics so over half of that has been going to china and caused a cascade impact on the industry within the u.s. itself so that was a major problem because we were relying on the lower income countries with china having managing their own and exploring on top of that so that contributes to pollution in the countries as well. it's interconnected and complex but i hope that clarifies.

we know about the waste of the plastics and how much is going into the ocean, but the question is how does this impact the species. so the first question, the report that was released earlier this year that included a plastic pollution as a threat to the marine biodiversity said it's seen as a threat. next question, do you know if plastic is affecting the species that are in danger of extinction and we understand how it gets into the ocean but what are some of the impacts? >> turtles, every species is

either on the endangered species list or close to it and each has adjusted. plastic doesn't go away completely yet it just breaks down into smaller and smaller pieces. so purple or sea mammal or another animal may ingest plastic. they think that they are full because their stomachs are full of plastic so they stop eating. they end up something they like to eat in the water but that's plastic and defeated to their child, little bird and they starve to death so it's having an impact on whales and many species. >> thank you. my time is up so i am going to yield and call upon the

representative who looked very good sitting on the democratic side there for a while and we welcome him back. i recruited a number of the members. >> coming to my district this weekend. i was arguing with him a while back and you can see the people i represent some of the communities i represent. you understand why i say the things i do and to his credit seeking down, put him on a boat, airplane or helicopter, took him all over the place, made him eat crawfish and all sorts of things so i do want to thank you and i'm looking forward to going over to your part of the country to see if we can talk with those people. >> thank you very much i

appreciate the friendship and look forward to the opportunity to meet with constituents. thank you all for being here and i want to be clear i very much appreciate all of your efforts to remove plastic. it's a goal i very much share and represent part of the coast of louisiana and one of the top commercial and recreational fishing destinations and producers in the united states and not just fishing for fun but the really important part of the culture and economy in south louisiana. we could talk endgame for a minute, but there's a huge part that exists right now. you've got plastic in the oceans, plastic that is somewhere in the recycled chain if we know with china has done. what do we d can we do right not putting the long-term aside looking at the incredible

streams in the ocean and i'm well aware of the support of some of the legislation that we pushed out of the house to deal with that, but what do we do with the current waste stream of plastics comes with the current strain that is supposed to be recycled over the ban creates problems with where it goes what do we do with the plastic bits in the ocean and i and is rootir the day to make any decision, what would you do? >> i was reduced to single use plastics. it's designed to live forever if you use it once and throw it away. >> can i clarify my question to you get the plastic that's already been singularly used so that's already in thit's alreads whether it's in the oceans or somewhere in the shipping or somewhere it's going to be recycled how do we handle that?

>> i'm not sure you can. you may be able to scoop some of the obvious pieces out and you could do cleanup and all that but compared to the amount of plastic that is supposed to be produced in the next 20 to 30 years you just can't compete with the amount by recycling and picking up. >> people just don't consider it so they get the benefit until we start charging more for the production it may help.

>> i want to re- emphasize i'm talking about the existing load that's there and i'm interested to hear the last witness talked about the technology moving forward, but please. >> what is already in existence and that the easiest thing they are one of the materials that are very valuable and could be recycled. the problem with what already exists is the diversity of plastics that there is the challenge with recycling and most of it is getting landfills here in the u.s. and so that's not the best thing we wish that more of it could be recycled. >> thank you. today our industry from the manufacturers are all actively

engaged in recycling and accusing the projects ranging from sorting to plastics that are used in polyethylene and developing technologies to support other materials and develop enough of a waste stream so they can be used in the applications. the other technology being used right now is chemical recycling which can take the product back to the basic form and use it again in food content so these are the technologies we are actively involved in right now. >> i now recognize the representative for five minutes. >> the ranking member asked two good questions. first what exactly is the problem, and a the second questn that he asked, why should americans take the blame for the access of the rest of the world.

those are two good questions. as for the first with a couple of examples from my perspective, we have the largest marine monument in the country and there we get somewhere around 52 metric tons of debris and almost all of it goes to fishing gear every year. why is that a problem? coral reefs endangered around the world degrades into smaller interested in the marine life. we have 1401 seals left in the world and the declining. they get trapped in the degree s to die. that species is highly endangered. we have invasive species from elsewhere in the world hitching a ride in the endangered species capital in the world where we cannot take that kind of external in fact.

i went on my first, june 1 of this year to the north shore where i try to clean up with sustainable coastlines one of the grassroots organizations across the country to do something about it on a micro level. the beach i used to walk on that was pretty white is now all different colors, green, yellow, red. very small particles of plastics don't have a level of marine life. that's what the problem is. now as to the ranking members second question why should we take the hit and the rest of the world isn't doing anything about it is a legitimate question because it reminds me of the debate over climate change where essentially the same question as posed by should we reduce emissions when the rest of the world is not doing that and that leads to international

agreements and what i see as one of the only ways to get at this problem from an international perspective. do they partner with international organizations to words international solutions to curb the plastics used from several perspectives are you partnering with the rest of the world to plan those international agreements? >> there are literally thousands or at least a thousand groups around the world working on plastics. this is a united effort i can get more specifics when i talk to the staff.

we haven't talked about climate change and greenhouse gases but plastic is such a huge part of that story. i don't see how we can not address our plastic and greenhouse gas emissions and if we don't do that how we expect the rest of the world to follow along. >> thank you very much. >> you stated in the testimony that you are supportive of save the oceans 2.0 which is a bipartisan bill introduced in both the house and senate and that callthe senateand that calr incentives at the federal level and also for pursuing international agreements that would curb plastic use around the world. search testimony sounded to be

inconsistent. are you supportive of pursuing international agreements whereby the entire world would agree to the reduction of dumping plastics into the ocean's? >> i would say that we are involved in and working with the organizations to find solutions to the problems that exist today. we are engaged with the industry associations working in a consortium with them to find the ability to minimize the waste in the ocean and in the land as well. >> that doesn't sound like what i'm talking about it sounds like you are working with the plastics industry around the world to manage it going into the oceans but not necessarily reducing it. reducing or reusing or recycling there's a lot of different options we are looking at him

the many parts of it that we do like in other parts we would still like to negotiate with. >> thank you and i will recognize the ranking member for five minutes. >> i was referring specifically to this post posted in landfills and none of which gets into the ocean. we know that america accounts for less than 1% of the plastic marine pollution so even if we went to the extreme of banning all plastics in the united states and in addition to having a devastating effect on the economy. you asked a very intriguing question talk about how much you touch everyday. isn'every day. isn't that an indication of how useful it is becoming in our daily lives?

>> absolutely. if you look at what has been replaced in the past whether it is class, paper, steel, aluminum the reason why there's so much as the best choice in terms of the applications. >> isn't the question also a warning of how our quality of life would decline if left in restricting or banning its? >> a love of them would be taken for granted not only to the americans on the east and west coast but in other areas as well to get food to different parts of the world because of the lower transportation costs and food stays safer and hold dear and pressure are all reasons across the world it has increased. >> the question also begs to correlate let's think about everything that we touch every single day, everything is either

mind or ground. i don't know of a single exception to that. and that all then begs a new question and that is what is the alternative. i use the example of the toothpaste tube would be the alternative to that? >> in the original testimony you mentioned what it used to be and the only thing we could do is go back to what it was that i would be in glass bottles and glad i think is what was used in toothpaste tubes because of the softness so you go backwards if you talk about material with a higher carbon footprint and more energy to produce and the transportation costs also increase and you have that aspect as well. >> disjuncture in the technology and science and advance and offf the civilization, plastics are the most environmentally friendly alternative that we

have if we are to engage in the commerce that makes the civilization possible is another. >> i go back to the point that the food packaging. the ability to get a proper us anyplace anytime because it is wrapped in plastic and it makes it accessible to everybody. all of those are getting product to the shelf economically. >> i'm curious how are we going to get our toothpaste for example how do you propose we package our toothpaste if you want to ban plastic containers and go back to the tubes were glass jars. that is a problem. i haven't heard a single alternative offered by the critics of plastics and i think

it has become very clear we found them to be a far better solution economically and environmentally to the materials that we have used in the past. it's funny hotell me how the bat the overall economy. >> i think that it would be detrimental. it could have an effect of putting people out of work. i don't think that there is a quick response to the supply and demand the marketplace created for these products that you would have a shortage of goods and economic decline because of the lack of innovation of materials that were seen in the industry. what would happen to the consumer pric prices? >> that they would go up. it is a simple supply and demand. >> art automobiles for example looking at peace right now they

are plastic and in the previous data they were much more expensive and harder on the environment. to meet the standards is the incorporation of high-performing plastics to do the same performance. >> so once again it is a blame america first and then arm of the american consumer even though the american consumer is responsibly disclosing plastic products and without any alternative. to me that almost sounds childlike. i will yield back. >> thank you, ranking member. i will now call upon mr. representative cunningham for five minutes for questions. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you for holding the hearing on an issue that is near and dear to my heart and also our constituents in the first district of south carolina which

stretches from charles de gaulle the way to help and. this issue is certainly on the minds of south carolina and if any of them to keep their free time to support local beach cleanups in an effort to preserve our beautiful god-given natural resources and i'm proud to represent so many of these conservation leaders. the local foundation chapter in my congressional district hosts beach cleanups almost every single weekend coming and we also have andrew wimberly, the charleston water keeper who's ws made it his likelihood to protect and restore the quality of the waterways while fighting for the rights to drinkable and fishable water. and today actually came up here from charleston with some of the plastic treasures that were recently found on offshore winds

over the weekend from the goose creek reservoir which is the source of the water supply so we will see what we've got here today, and this was just found this weekend. we've got plastic water bottles here. a single use plastic bag and this looks like it has been shredded or enable one or more then likely ingested by some kind of marine wildlife so what is left of it right now. another straw and we've all seen the pictures of sea turtles and the damage that causes.

and a potato chip bag, plastic. this is an abnormal unfortunately, it's become the norm of what washes up on the shorelines or enters the waterways every single weekend and a lot of people in the room are aware of it and in fact earlier this year, noaa published a report on the economic impact of the marine debris and i would like to, without objection i would like to enter this report for the record. not surprisingly the report found getting rid of debris from the beaches can have a significant impact that's kind of a no-brainer. every year the international coastal cleanup report shows the most frequently found items on the beach, 2017 data showed for the first time that the top ten most commonly found items were

all made of plastic. the trend continued in 2018. so, what items, what you saw today is this simple but the items typically found in beach cleanups in your experience, and how does this come out of these discoveries help shape the policy? >> they are all single use plastic's which is something we would like to reduce. they are all very convenient and easy for us to use in our everyday lives bu lives that cre incredible problems everything from greenhouse gases to see animals die from ingesting them. so, that is our disposable lifestyle of which i am part of. it's very hard to live without. everyday. people are coming up with solutions. there's a toothpaste that now comes in a little jar it's a powder and you add water and it

creates jobs and money and taxes, so there are alternatives we need to find. it's been incredibly useful and don't become incredibly dangerous, and i think that is the argument, not a the left or the right has any monopoly on being smart about things. this is a problem for all of us and we need to find ways to do it and i do believe that we are capable. >> i appreciate you all being here today. unfortunately, my time is coming to a close but i know there's been some discussion today of course where the united states is as far as polluting and clean up and everything that i think we should all agree that the united states of america is the leader and we should lead on this issue and no matter where we fall on the list of polluters, we should be leading by example and being more responsible, being more than the norm if you will.

just you know, being out in the front on this and recognizing that this is not sustainable and we have to do every single thing in our power to make that come to an end, so i appreciate what you all are doing it at the time here today and with that i would yield back. >> thank you mr. cunningham and i now recognize that congressman for five minutes of questions. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, scrolling today's hearing. in my first few months here in congress by first year, i had this naïve thought if there was a possibility for some committee members to get on an airplane and fly over this garbage bits in the pacific now it has a new name actually it is the great pacific garbage pass and it's located just a little north of

hawaii and right next to a pla place. i come from a part of micrones micronesia. there's a lot of small islands together. you take all of those islands together, all of them come up with them together and it's hardly a large part of this pa past. we have in the islands that are conservation islands and unless you are a scientist with a permit you can get on this island there have been scientists that have gotten permits and found to their dismay they had to collect bags and bags of garbage, plastic garbage. i don't mean any disrespect to

all of you. thank you. thank you very much for so many. i have so many wonderful hours of great entertainment. i enjoyed your shows. i also noticed among the witnesses on the table -- call me tony, how about that. >> among the witnesses you are the only one with a plastic bottle of water. you really are for your product. >> if i could comment on -- >> i'm not asking for a comment, just it is an observation. you didn't have to bring that because there are glasses of water in front of you. but you see, this island, yeah

we've probably contributed to some of this debris, but we are not responsible for that debris into that is floating and growing and it's one day going to cover. micronesia is an area the size of 48 states so what do we do about that? allege effort and resource would you think that it would be to clean up this garbage patch? >> so, what is floating out there is only about 3% of what we think is going in every year. so it's not a large amount, but you're absolutely right in that what is floating often ends up on islands like yours that sort of interest to those curtains. to be honest, the best way to sort of get that out is if it is ending up on land and then

cleaning that like they do in hawaii. there are folks that are trying to design systems to collect out in the great pacific garbage patch but there's a lot of resources that go into that and that is similar to the analogy of mopping up your bathroom floor while the tap is on. >> just imagine what it would be like for hawaii is garbage gets any closer and just keep scrolling. i don't have an answer to the problem, i really don't. i do have a serious concern because you know, i eat a lot of fish, brief and to and everything. i agree things get in to the fish and what i eat most likely,

but i don't know. i don't have an answer i'm not as smart as the four of you at the witness table. but we do need to take some steps and get something going and try to find a way to resolve this and maybe i don't know, find an alternative to plastics. that's not going to hurt people's jobs. there has to be something. we are a much better nation than we think we are again we give ourselves credit for. my time is up, thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you. next, the chair recognizes you for five minutes of questions. >> thank you mr. chair and thank you for hosting this important hearing. for the topic of plastics and water it cannot be more pressing on a study by the u.s.

geological survey its sound plastic was found in 90% of the rainfall samples in denver and boulder colorado which happen to be the particular area that i represent in congress among many others. an earlier study found people are swallowing an average of 5 grams of plastic about the weight of a credit card. they are suffering from this everyday but ultimately people across the nation during the same it's imperative that we address this issue. it just happens, mr. chair, quite fittingly, literally one week ago october 16, a constituent of mine named annie from ft. collins and expeditionary learning school in my district wrote to me about this very issue, the issue of micro plastics in the world's oceans and water systems at large and in her letter she sait on such a small part of this world and i want to do everything i can to fix this problem. i'm certainly inspired by her

commitment to fixing this problem and i'm heartened by his decision to separate the hearing and fellow committee members and their attempt to address this issue and the witnesses that have joined us and their testimony. i welcome this i had a number of competing scheduling commitments from the hearing perspective as well as meetings, but i was watching the testimony and some of the exchanges on the television in our office and there was one exchange in particular that was interesting to me and i had noticed you didn't have the opportunity to really respond to the question being posed by the gentleman from california so i would like to go back to the point that he made about toothpaste. in 1984, how old were you? if you are comfortable sharing it of course. >> i was born in 47.

would you do the math for me? >> i am a lawyer, not a mathematician unfortunately that buti believe that that would put you at -- 43, i think that's right. in 1984 -- i'm old, go on. >> i don't want to get stuck on your age. what kind of car were you driving back in the 80s? >> 1980s, ford explorer. >> and i take that it probably was not an electric car. >> nova they did have the first ev one. >> and i suspect you may have been renting back then or owned a home committed your home have solar panels? >> know they did not. >> the reason i ask, i was born in 1984, 35 today i have a daughter that is 14 months am and i think a lot about the world of if she will inherit and

much of the work we do here in this committee and this congress is about fighting to make sure the world she inhabits is better than what we do. the transformative changes that happened just in the last 35 years since i was born has been dramatic. you have chosen among many other citizens in our country and of course several of the panelists here to try to make a difference to adopt strategies in your own life and the way you conduct yourself to be environmentally conscious taking advantage of the technological capabilities that have also changed. so, this notion that we can't adopt and removing micro plastics suddenly we all would be witnessed in the realities of trying to replace the plastic that carries toothpaste to me that is a false choice. fundamentally we all collectively are going to have to adopt a strategy that enables us to move to a future in which micro plastics are not polluting

our planet and in the communities they are all so lucky to call home. that's to be is what this should be about. about. this is the extent you care to respond further, i know you did talk a little bit about some of the alternatives that toothpaste containers and brushes that are non- plastic options, but if you care to also eliminate further -- pinnock just briefly i do know people will invent new things and create more jobs and not create stuff that is worse. just in general if you talk about for childre virtual frienu are talking about climate change. you just are coming and you are talking about greenhouse gases and if you are talking about greenhouse gases and fear in the middle of a committee about ocean plastic, you have to acknowledge the plastic is coming from petroleum and chemicals and that's why spend the time of production to lying on a beach is the equivalent all of the plastic is the

fifth-largest emitter of greenhouse gases. so, if you want to take care of your children, you have to start addressing these incredibly inconvenient things that we have all gotten used to and enjoy but that are no longer good for us and they are going to land on our children and grandchildren in a huge way. >> thank you. i will yield back the balance of my time and apologize for revealing his age. with that i will yield back. >> how old ar were you? >> 35. >> thank you. i'd like to thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and the men was further questions. i found it interesting members of the committee may wish to have additional questions for the witnesses and we are going to ask you to respond to these in writing. under the committee will, members of the committee must

submit what this questions within three business days following the hearing and the hearing record will be open for ten business days for the responses. before i end i want to introduce into the record a journal article from volume nine of the climate change of 2019 which was a study that showed the global lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions were conventional plastics, which were produced in 2015 and were 1.8 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalent. this is approximately the annual emissions as i pointed out in my introduction of 462 coal-fired power plants. that's what we are just talking about in terms of co2 emissions and i will get back to the

record. [inaudible] >> i'm just introducing something into the record. if there is no further business, without objection, the committee stands adjourned. the [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]al offs

from michigan, southern california, and new york city.