>> michael barone is joining us his book sunday morning thank you for being with us.

so let me begin chapter two of your book because you say let me start by a describing again what i believe is the enduring character of political dna of the two major political parties. what is the dna quick. >> they change their position on issues over the years. burial parties lincoln started off as the protectionist party and free-trade party in the seventies now with president trumpet is the trade party. the enduring character is the republican party has always been around a core constituency of people who are considered by themselves and others to be typical americans but they are not a majority of the population. the democratic party has always beenay a coalition about groups those are not typical americans but when they hold together can be a majority so they always hold together and

then there are fights at the democratic party and that dynamic has continued even through the republican core constituency with groups in the democratic coalition have changed. things are very old political parties. democratic party formed 1832 p jackson therew republican party formed in 1854 to close the slave react in the territories and they succeeded within a decade. but they have continued everve since. >> in your introduction you go back to election day 2016 it is a poor guide to reality but they give historical perspective the democratic losses of the eighties. >> each political party has its predictions at the republican party that the presidency majority in the

house is about to disappear permanent minorityrm status. they persist through political disaster much worse than any party has suffered and democrats in 1820. they have urged within a decade and they have overcome third-party challenges that are greater significance than we havete seen in our time like ross perot in the 19 nineties. there is something fundamental and the enduring character of these two parties has provided alan avenue for political expression in choice from a population which has always been diverse culturally, economically, raciae the beginning of thehe republic

when there were british colonies. >> "both parties have change policies adapting to democratic circumstances into signal a political marketplace. both have tended to provide congenial although temporary political homes for a large majority of the americans over many years. the fact they have that function for so long under stress despite massive setbacks provides a basis if they pass the stress test to be administered by donaldru trump and his democratic opponents as they pass through even more stringent times than before. >> i continue to believe that there are new challenges every day and every week there is a lot of clash and rhetoric that i find personally unfortunate coming from all sides.

but basically they have gone through tougher times before. somebody said to me where can you find evidence there is marble political discord i said fort sumter. south carolina were fighting in the civil war began. we have gone through periods of real discord of literally a civil war and the parties endured during that and they will continue in the episodes that we see now. >> how america's political parties chains - - change you also write trump from other nominees has not been unprecedented they do not prevent him we're windier unanimous voters the strength of the two parties seem undiminished and perhaps stronger than ever.

>> if you look at public opinion polling today in between 85 and 95 percent identifyfy as republicans say they support donald trump over potential opponents including my college classmate former governor of massachusetts. they continue to be very strong. the composition of the republican party has changed somewhat over time we have seen even broader divergence of shift of a political party. william jennings bryan nominated by the democratic party repudiated the policies of the incumbent democratic president cleveland endorsed the republican candidate. lots of votes changed many more changed going from democratic to republican and back and they did so in the 2016 election if you compare

that to the immediately prior. we have seen these revolutions before. >> and explain what we are or are not seeing because going back to 1980 there was a formidable challenge against carter or 1982 with as a formidable opponent to george h.w. bush many attribute that to his loss. number of candidates challenging the president but none seem to be making mark with traction or polling. >> that's right. please see adhesion to the party leaders and we will on the democratic side opposing donald trump. this is a. of partisan parity they are about equal size no party has

one more than 53 percent in a presidential election since 1984. we have now a clearly liberal and conservative party. but in the fifties there was a campaign where they said we need to have a clearly liberal and conservative party. we should have conservative democrats or liberal conservatives they got their wish and now they say it's polarized and they are attacking each other. we don't like this but that is what happened in the 19 fifties. >> referring to republicans leading in texas battling for the gop. that the texas tribune

festival a couple weeks ago there was a point me that republicans need to rebuild this is part of the video library. >> the division has been constant up until now. the 500 day mark with reagan he had the support and the 500 day mark trump has a supportive 87 percent it is his party. which is why those of us who care about the two-party system think what should happen in 2020 as the republican party is obliterated like hitting over the head with a two by four to get their attention. something needs to be done to get the republicans attention. >> your reaction to that assessment clearly is not a

fan of president trump but a long time republican. >> i like him and he made a comment in my book here how american political parties change ergo he is not a republican anymore. he doesn't identify with the republican party. he is free to give advice to people. he gives many people advice in many directions. but he would like to see a different republican coalition. i think it may change over time but also looking back over the last 25 yearssi since the 19 nineties since clinton broke the suppose a lock on the presidency and newt gingrich broke the democrats eternal lock on the majority in the house of representatives. what we have seen is the prdemocratic coalition has become gradually and suddenly

more upscale, higher education he people moved to the democratic party that the affluent voters in houston and dallas decided in 2016 they didn't like the donald trump republican party. you have the republican party that is more downscale novelist hemingway was asked about bankruptcy they say they go in gradually and then suddenly. the republican party has changed gradually and now with 2016 with a force suddenly into a party that has downscale. the democratic party has party which is more upscale demographically the wall street journal the past week delia needed how

that has happened but also to arthe point hillary clinton who was the nominee in 2016 now boasts that the democratic party carries the most affluent counties in the country. when i was growing up in michigan republicans had support from affluent voters they didn't say that the rich people were supporting them everybody should differ to the rich people.n' that was secretary clinton's comments i feel are a little bizarre for that reason. >> now some background former writer also writing for us report and the almanac and senior fellow at aei and is also available online at "washington examiner".com. you have traveled to all 50 states and all 435 congressional districts.

>> i rank with the c-span bus. [laughter] getting around the country. i started to write this almanac of american politics it occurred to me i had not stepped foot in most congressional districts so i set out in my travels to make sure that i did and then when i landed at ted stevens airport in anchorage alaska february 1998 that was my 50th state i kept up with redistricting when they change boundaries i was making sure i was in all districts. >> i want to get your reaction to this editorial this morning from the lead senate republicans who is a supporter of the president but talk

about rape pulling out of syria this is what senator mcconnell wrote today. withdrawing forces from syria is a grave strategic mistake leaving the homeland less safe and weaken alliances and the risks are worth repeating the obama reckless withdrawal had the rise of the islamic state in the first place. we need to use sticks and carrots to bring turkey back in line to limit the incursion and the enduring cease-fire we should create conditions for the reproduction of us troops to move turkey away from russia back into the nato fold. finally he says as it clears its head on the right and left weevils expect to hear more talk of endless wars and rhetoric does not change that they do not just and they are won or lost the political will will wax and wane the threat

to the nation is not going anywhere. >> what i hear him doing is expressing in specific terms with the majority of house republicans one - - democrats have voted on condemning the withdrawal from syria. relatively small number of troops that we have their and endorsing some of the arguments he is making their. it's not the first time congressional members of a political party have opposed the presidents foreign policy. thinking back to the thirties and forties we were debating whether or not the world war ii democratic president roosevelt that wanted to stand alone against the nazis and some oppose that move until

the morning of december 7th, 19. >> our guest is michael barone how america's political parties change is his book. joshua tree california democratic line good morning. >>caller: i have been following the republican mayor of santa barbara the republican mayor of santa barbara and ended up on a ship and then ended up in san francisco it's my

understanding it was a bitter war and really that's when the republican party became strong in california. >> i think this is the importance of history of american politics in these experiences that people had the revolutionary war and the civil war and world war ii. influencing political feelings for long long time and multiple generations. when my favorite data subjects what was jfk number two votes his number two statement is your job. now we think of georgia as a conservative state southern

democrats. why would they voting so heavily democratic cracks one answer ishr that sherman marched his union troops through georgia only 96 years before that election and people were still voting against sherman's march. there are songs commemorating that march and the future democratic president the democrat from south georgia. those experiences have ecrchasedd on people's minds long after they existed. >> why do we have somebody conservative democrats after the roosevelt new deal cracks one reason is southern white voters who were descended from those who oppose the civil war and supported the confederacy continued to vote democratic.

decades or even a century befor before. >> that sounds like a jeopardy question. [laughter] next alabama republican line. >>caller: do you see any similarities when we look back from kennedy's assassination? a lot of protest and anti- american sentiment leading up to watergate for we had a huge turn out and vote for jimmy carter. do you see any similarities between bernie and elizabeth ward with jimmy carter and the china trade deal we gave away the panama canal and taking

14.2 percent interest out of credit unions with double-digit rate - - inflation so the deal that we have now it seems that they hate america withwi their rhetoric and then leaning back toward that jimmy carter do you see any similarities a cracks personally i will vote for bernie i think we need to have a change with the economy and they can bring america back around to commonsense economics. >> some of the examples of jimmy carter's policies during his p term in 1977 through 80 the democratic party was more federal government control which became democratic party policy but even more so under

franklin roosevelt. historically when it was founded it against a central bank and free trade and balancinge the budget and jackson eliminated the national debt for twors years. so the parties do change position one of the interestingt things of his policies that while he favored more government spending and control, he was also a major supporter of regulation and of transportation we got the regulation of freight rail industry of the world the

deregulation of trucking that kennedy supported it is bipartisan and also ralph nader. but ralph nader argued and that has proven to be true perhaps that has affected those in many ways to have the days of tablecloths of little silver salt-and-pepper shakers.t

at the airport in orlando you get the idea a lot of americans can afford a family vacation by aircraft thanks to deregulation. but squeezing out the cost of transportation that is the achievement president carter can take with him. >> you make the following point no switching from democratic to republican 15 were in the midwest 20 in pennsylvania and demographically and more closely resembling the midwest like pittsburgh and scranton.

>> one of the biggest is between the major metropolitan areas and half of those live in the metro area is. and if you want to see with the largest portion of votes come with a very similar configuration even in 1996 then you see the votes change in favor of donald trump against the democratic party is the statement the midwest beyond the major metro areas why is that about two thirds

of the votes are metro chicago that has trended democratic since the 1980s. with high income people joining but the other midwest states like ohio and michigan and wisconsin and iowa either have no major metropolitan areas or that those major metropolitan areas for the state total. consequently that proven to be fertile ground and treacherous ground for hillary clinton. >> how america's political parties change and how they don't. >> democratic line from new orleans. >> good morning.

's with these discussions with the electoral college. and what described that they cleaning to their bibles into theirru guns. i also think that the members of the republican party and that status has changed for people. and donald trump i think lives up to the fear of losing white

privilege. >> the way i see it that we don't have d racial segregation mandated by law more than 50 years. and there was some serious economic studies that show contrary to what experts thought or what i thought that the closer trade relations with china cost many more manufacturing jobs in america than forecast so there is some reaction toi that. talk about the kuralt loan - - the comment brock obama 2 made as she mentioned that there is also an issue constitutional

rights of clinging to your bible like freedom of religion inth the free exercise that you are entitled to read your bible. and the second amendment the howard decision of the supreme court say there is a personal right to keep and bear arms in this country and it is prohibited by the constitution. and the framers of the constitution understand it was already a society when they were writinge the constitution in 1787 they were familiar with the history of europe and the british b isles to have religiouset wars in different

religious views trying to impose on other people. they took the position that freedom of religion and that congress shall pass no law with an establishment of religion. some of the states had religious establishments and churches were supported that persisted inn massachusetts and then virginia got rid of its establishment when it was supposed leading the fight to say there is no established church. but this was establishment different people anglicans and catholics and quakers in pennsylvania. and the founding father said this is a religiously diverse country. we will not try to have the federal governmentnm impose a

religious uniformity the total freedom of religion and free exercise thereof and people can choose whatever religion they want. it's one way you make a continental size country with diverse from the beginningg to operate successfully. >> also text messages as well so what would it take for a third party to upstage the two main parties to have more equitablee power? >> it would take quite a lot and history tells us that. imagine the former president who won the second term by the vergest percentage ever recorded up until that date decided to lead a third political party and would run again supposed he got his party on the ballot in every state and ran in the majority

and one-party districts across the country. that actually happened calendar year 1912 roosevelt became a candidate of the progressive party he was a strong number two william erhoward taft was number three this party had just about all the political assets you can think of universal knowledge. by 1916 it was gone third parties were still operating in wisconsin and minnesota with support from germany and scandinavia. theodore roosevelt was back on the republican team and when he died in 1919 he was the favorite for the republican

nomination in 1920 and then roosevelt would be the four term president if roosevelt had not died at age 60. but i think we had a test case the single-member district the electoral college is a structural factor america's political parties change that they provide a home for people that identify with the cyconstituency they have a home for people who identify in the democratic party that has persisted over a long period of time. >> we welcome our radio audience now south carolina

you are on the air. >>caller: hello. i wondering why the typical republican is because my view from new england is a democrat now i'm an independent but they are always more concerned about their taxes. i live in a mixed neighborhood but going to the luxury homes it's all trump signs people like him because of the taxes and it's always been that way i think in the religious right has always supported republicans and i call them radical christians at all think they know anything about christianity except that trump has a mandate from heaven

which i think is absurd. that is my point of view that the republican is wealthy but i'm an ordinary person i believe in women in politics and minorities but i don't see that in the republican party or th' black people or the women or anything that is typical of a tax related wealthy person who doesn't care about people on the board or what i believe in that are supposed to care about babies and children i am interested in your book but it's not once they get rich they change their property in a protect

rotheir property. >> i think the caller is identifying more the past than the president on - - present we are moving away from those political alignments that she talks about.. that i was growing up in michigan people identified voter republican are those that identified with the uaw factory workers voted democratic. that was pattern that was common in the fifties. i think my experience with those historically preserved houses in charleston when the fastest growing metro areas demographically by the way certainly looking at the richest areas of the country

how does beverly hills vote? they lean heavily democratic greenwich connecticut has been going democratic the first president bush father and second president bush grandfather over 20 years of rich man living in a community full of rich people moving toward the democratic party the upper east side of manhattan where one of the koch brothers lived you go to ask interpol beach county the very richest parts like bel air where president reagan lived in retirement is more democratic. americans were often are split

along cultural or economic lines you do see splits such as rich people voting for candidates for lower taxes a better indicator is what is your position on abortion rights rex was roe v wade correctly decided? or do you think abortion is murder of a human being and it extinguishes a human life and should be prohibited or limited in its availability? those issues are more powerful to determine those choices these days. rich people in california are paying high taxes they think

on balance that's good public policy. is their choice every vote counts in the south we saw less of that of high income people with the democratic party but with the 2018 house selections dallas fort worth where the high income people stayed republican unlike the industrial midwest with a high income people trended toward the democratic candidates they clearly don't like donald trump style and some of those policies he had on immigration. >> a tweet from catherine am interested in reading the book and the concept it is systemic

and relevant from their inception democratic line go ooahead california. >>caller: thank you for taking my call. i think the republican party has a lot of money and they also get their voters emotional and to use their opinion i watch c-span i hear

it straight from the ndpoliticians and this is the only station that gives a true idea of what is going on. and the voters are starting to change and i wonder if you think voterslk are starting to talk to each other. >> thanks for the call. >> i think we are back to an era towards partisan journalism and that actually is the historic part if you go back to the 19th century of the foundation of the

democratic party when they said to the victor goes the spoils the democratic newspapers got printing contracts and that was a source of considerable income and profits and the republican newspapers took the same line throughout the midwest to get the republican party in line in 1854 you subscribed to the tribune to get the democratic line menus supported that harold. that was the partisan politics of the day. we had an era with the broadcaster knows him that was regulated by the federal government to accept the idea that they should have the objective but not partisan

point of view. increasingly as time went on for what is objective and your log to your own - - longtime colleague has a genuine nonpartisan bipartisan open to all and those successes and that media has become more partisan to view the world from the same perspective and that makes a certain amount of sense and it's useful to get that reality principle so i went to endorse one other idea what the caller sandwiches

it's easy to criticize ordinary people who don't have clear ideas that don't have much knowledge of these things but if you listen to people maybe not in an organized fashion but those perceptions that are pretty accurate about the country and some knowledge that the rational basis and how it has not their own self-interest but has something to do with the perceived best interest as they see it. every vote counts and every vote is entitled to respect until proven otherwise. until proven otherwise.

who wants to be a millionaire goes back on the air you used to be a lifeline. [laughter] especially on economic viabilit viability. so keep the comments coming this is the democratic line pennsylvania. >>caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call this morning. i tend to see my social realities. and those social values. over tont to get back syria.

left france and england and in germany and what's going on over there so what about these other countries? they have soldiers over there? all that we hear about is the president how he made a mistake but where are the other nations? >> the editorial this morning from mitch mcconnell in the washington post the president's decision is "a grave mistake. >> that is not an ambiguous way to put it i guess for senator mcconnell.

the caller exemplifies one example of why donald trump won the election of pennsylvania in 2016. he identifies as a democrat but tends to take more conservative position on the culture of economic issues and is a supporter of the president it seems. to identify himself as a conservative democrat. and how parties change with liberal republicans and how conservative democrats tend to disappear. and in syria if i could make a bipartisan critique the

policies about the current president and hisid predecessor is in some ways resulted from impulsive statements that perhaps were not a good idea. i wrote a couple of articles in the "washington examiner" that obama's declaration august 2012 for the use of the poison gas was the red line. is some of that excessive reporting that wass done through the new york times and it seems that was not a prepared statement. that they were having the rnc. and president obama clearly didn't expect the syrians to

use poison gas which they did. then do we get in or get out? then we decided not to get in but we then had troops there. then-president trump announces on sunday night we are yanking 1000 troops that we have in the zone near the turkish border. that looks to be a little impulsive also. i find that basis they could criticize both the recent democratic and republican president on this issue. >> talking about the wall to say is making a very big difference even democrats in the area are happy. in the topic we are discussing this morning that republicans t succeeded with the nationalist populism in 2016 and may again

in 2020. with balanced budgets constitutionally similar to the foreign policy and going forward whether build a wall if it would be sufficient to carry them forward without the novelties celebrity of donald trump. some of the book lee goldwater reagan conservative can be kept inside the republican coalition and if there are enough to bother with. republican line from pennsylvania good morning. >>caller: quick question. do you think the presidents son-in-law is part of the israeli peace process and that the embassy is tied in with syria as well? how do you feel well has

ffaffected politics that almost 50 percent of the billionaires are jewish? >> i think president trumps policy has been supportive of the israel government and moved to the american embassy to tel aviv which is the largest metro area in israel to jerusalem which is the political capital of israel. many experts said this would have a lot of negative consequences. i haven'tt noticed any. and the idea that other arab countries liketh saudi arabia or egypt would react negatively to support israel in this regard doesn't seem to be the case.

and as the caller refers to a large number of jewish people i don't think the figures are accurate but there is no question in those that have contributed and not just to our economy and the american support for israel whether president trump or other republicans or democrats and is a reflection of opinion if you look at the public opinion polls of the united states and seek overwhelming majorities in support of israel for a variety of reasons.

and provides equal rights and those ancestry background. that's the kind of countries that comes to t mind and leaders in the whole world where scientific and technological advances that we can profit fro from. >> the president talks politics overnight. last night at east coast time cricket hillary is at it again jill stein is a russian asset i do like russian people are going like all people he adds hillary has gone crazy.

baltimore good morning. >>caller: my question this morning and how the framers of the country that it is wise for everyone to practice their religions and open our bibles freely. and i always heard of this phrase separation of church and state calls for the separation of church and state. and while i'd like to know where that comes from. >> separation of church and state i think is a fair conclusion from history comes

from a letter of thomas jefferson wrote to a baptist congregation in connecticut where he said the wall of separation between church and state. that was jefferson's personal opinion. and that they are still strongly against thele entanglement. and that was catering to say that i have the same views that you do. the first amendment is not exactly a separation of church and state. the first amendment says congress shall make no law prohibiting freedom of religion and the free exercise thereof.

and congress shall make no law regarding an establishment of religion. and what that means there is no federal established religion in a systematic way. and anglican in virginia and massachusetts and so forth. and those establishments continue in 1832 they were not considered to be a violation. but they were voted out by the state legislature to get rid of the established church in the period of the 17 eighties with the advocacy of thomas jefferson and james madison

who struggled against established religion that is a big change from the european heritage you have established church in england and scotland and ireland and still have that established church in england and scotland and it was understood and most of those countries in europe the scandinavia countries that were lutheran and the king of france was the most catholic majesty so that was a real change the farmers made something that they considered very serious and when george

washington goes on his trip through the states and greeted by the synagogue to make a special point that those are not given tolerance and those in the republic with freedom of religion. . . . .

more federal spending and higher taxes. those are the decisions people make. >> host: the cover includes the american flag and sandcastle. >> things change about bankruptcy gradually and suddenly and donald trump is part so we are taking time getting used i to it. >> host: thanks for stopping by we appreciate. >> thank you.

>> in this portion of the event of formeformer google and execue