today the unifying potential of nationalism is the understatement. we can come up with many examples to be at war with the city of baltimore we tweeted no human being would want to live in west baltimore. and donald trump is the head of state for the united states of america. that doesn't seem to make any impression on him. >> that was rich lowery that entire program will air after the miami book fair and one of the things we want to do is hear what you are reading. you can contact us on social media or by text to tell us what you are reading. just remember at book tv make

the post on facebook or twitter. if you want to send a text include your name and city (202)748-8003 is the text number and we will be reading those later in our live coverage from miami. joining us now the author of unfollow an mri leaving the westborough active - - baptist church burka where did you grow up and how quex. >> i grew up in kansas at the westborough baptist church started by my grandfather and almost my entire extended family at westborough we had a normal life in some ways. public school, video games, made cookies with my parents with all wonderful memories but then our lives

were organized around a picketing ministry from the age of five i would protest gay people originally and then from there to everyone outside of the church was headed for hell and we had a duty to go with them of the consequences of their sins and our whole lives were organized around the ministry. >>host: how does that begin if you talk about this loving family that you have and a normal childhood when did the god hates fags signs calm. >> when i was five years old and incident occurred at a local park where my grandfather thought he saw my older brother who was that about four or five being approached by two men trying to lure him into the bushes. he found out that parkland is a place for gay men. so he went to start to get the city to clean up the park it was called the park decency

drive but even from the first protest it said gays are worthy of death romans one / 32 and almost immediately the response was outrage from the community. local churches would counter protest so the response to the westborough ministry was always negative and i was taught that was a good thing. jesus said blessed are you when men hate you that all men revile you they hate you and anybody that speaks the word of god will be hated. i learned from a very young age that everyone else was the bad guys and we have a duty to tell them what god required of them. >>host: what was fred phelps like as a grandfather?

he was the fire and brimstone preacher you could hear in the sermon and see it in the interviews. he was a very passionate and zealous believer with everything he preach. but also a loving grandfather who i absolutely adored. i missed him terribly after i left. >>host: what was the phelps family reputation in topeka? you talk about playing video games did other parents say stay away from megan phelps? >> yes. our parents raised us to be polite and friendly and help others with their homework and good students and we had acquaintances so i started protesting before kindergarten so i grew up with a cohort of classmates who knew i would be outside of their churches and

the performing arts center when they had the nutcracker so we were protesting the same people i went to school with then in high school i would leave class during lunch and cross the street and get my high school during lunch as my classmates were driving by screaming or throwing things so there was always a sense of us versus them. we might be required to sit in class together and played nice but i understood i could not trust them and keep them at arms length paraguay had to work very hard to do that for the most part people did not want to be close to us. >>host: did you revel in your otherness? >> yes. for the most part but i thought for the most part as inevitable if i was going to serve god to do my duty than i would be hated because i was

raised in that environment it seemed like another fact of life. >> the numbers are on the screen if you want to participate this afternoon with megan phelps roper formally of the westborough baptist church. november 2012 what happened quex. >> i left. i had gotten on twitter a few years before that and started to have conversations. >>host: you are basically the social media director. >> not a formal position i read an article about it and thought it was a place to go to spread our message to another audience and i ended up being changed far more than the people i was trying to preach to. there was that same kind of hostility i experienced on the picket line but also a group of individuals started to ask me questions and having real conversations with me. even if they started off with the instinct to shame me and

isolate me to make me think it was a bad person they realized i was sincere to the value of what i was doing and the goodness in the righteousness. and starting these conversations with the in-depth questions to understand westborough theology and with those inconsistencies of the doctrine that the first time i could see that we could be wrong that westborough baptist church does not have the monopoly on truth. the truth is god. so then that eventually unraveled. >> did you raise those questions to your grandfather? >>. >> i did to my mother more than anyone and the problem

was the whole lives are organized around that ministry because publicly they took a position so the idea of changing their mind even if they do they almost never talk about it publicly because it would cow - - casted out on the rest of the message. but to acknowledge about something you were wrong that you are so passionately preaching for so long. but in a cautious way it was so visceral and negative it terrified me. so i compartmentalized it so then those doubts and then when i persisted i stopped holding them so i thought it

just these few issues with the rest of what they are preaching is right. but then i came to realize why do i just accept the rest of it is true then that open the door to the bigger questions of the ideology. >>host: how many members of westborough have left the membership has stayed largely the same between 70 and 80 people, less than 100. a few dozen at this point have left but they have had a few converts from the outside and also young children being born into it so now it's my generation having children raising in that environment. >>host: let's hear from our viewers. from georgia you are on. unfollow is the name of the book. >>caller. >> and want to ask you what is that moment if it is remorse?

>>host: just a reminder to viewers speak clearly into your phone. what catalyzed you to leave? >> it started with a question that somebody on twitter david addled mom asked me a picket sign that said death penalty for fags calling for the death penalty because of a passage in leviticus and he pointed to two situations. first with jesus didn't jesus say he who has sin not cast the first stone? i gave the response we had always learned we are not casting stones. we are preaching words he gave

the very obvious response that you are advocating the government cast stones. that was the first time that quote from jesus wasn't a general call to humility - - humility was specifically the death penalty. than that set me back and say didn't your mom have your oldest brother out of wedlock? that's another sin that deserves the death penalty. that was the first time i thought through that we said she didn't deserve that punishment because she had repented. if you kill them you cut up the opportunity to repent so these two points that he raised i could not acknowledge at the time or even in my own mind that we could be wrong about something. that started me down the path of questioning. then the church started to do things i believed were not scriptural a group of men took over the decision-making process that was contrary from

the bible and they started to lie and photo shopping themselves and to protest that they were not actually been at. that was part of it so the realization and ultimately the questions became bigger. i knew before i left i came upon a passage we were praying for people to die based on things king david pray for the enemy's children to be father listed why i am's to be widowed celebrating death and tragedy that i come to realize there are passages in the new testament where jesus is love your enemy. don't persecute you that apostle paul says that we were doing things that i believe are unscriptural and protesting funerals that i believe were wrong according to the bible itself. westborough failing to live up to its own standards. that is where i eventually

came to realize it isn't them a call. there is no real justification and i cannot keep doing it. >>host: your family is quite educated. lot of law degree. >> absolutely. education was very important. i thought i would go to law school to follow in the family footsteps. i didn't do that because the apocalypse was coming. that educated people could believe these things that how can they be indoctrinated if they are so smart? the answer is almost everyone who is in the church was raised in the church so from a very young age they all learned to marshal all of our

resource resources, intellectual fact that - - faculties to defend that ideology and they have an answer for everything it so important those initial doubts came from those internal inconsistencies. >>host: michigan go ahead. >>caller: thank you very much. can you hear me? >>host: go ahead. >>caller: i was just thinking about love your enemies that is not enough to love your enemies you must also hate your friends left left but everything that is done out of love takes place beyond good and evil and i am just curious does she now

think family and former friends were doing? does she think they are evil or being evil with this hate speec speech? or is that a different view. >> i do think they do things that are evil. especially for me the funeral protest is some of the worst things we ever did celebrating the death of children praying for god to pray for more dead children. i do believe that is evil but for me the family is motivated by good intentions for the first nearly 27 years of my life i see them as good people trapped by bad ideas and some

people really want me to completely condemn my family and other part of my book is a line from the great gratin gatsby reserving judgment so to me that encapsulates the idea of grace. they were willing to suspend their judgments long enough to show me empathy and compassion at a time and that is what led change and allow them to get through to me. that some of you my family now with the same grace and compassion that people showed me and i hope they can be reached as well. >>host: magan phelps roper can you talk us through a couple of steps connecting christiana praying for the children or protesting a soldier's funeral?

>> those funeral protest i was 19 years old when we started protesting soldiers funerals and i asked my mother's is a change in our music ministry. we had before and i need to understand why we are doing this i need to understand why. and she took me to deuteronomy where god says i set before you a day of blessing and curse that you will obey me and a curse that you won't can we all agree if it - - a child is a curse from god and not a blessing we believe in predestination anything that happens is the will of god and god will this to happen it is punishment so going to protest at a funeral my mother said we were connecting point a your

manner of life that is that punishment the person is dead so we need to tell the living it wasn't about the dead about the living to give them an opportunity to repent or perish is not repent or be killed in a war or repent or you will go to hell like this man. and then they see it as the definition of love and compassion because if you see somebody going down a path my mother would say curse is from god and held to that if they go down that path and don't warn them that is because you hate them in your heart. so because of that framing it taps into your desire as a human being to do good for that is what it meant to do good. >>host: des moines you are on go ahead. >>caller: you mentioned as a

child you held a poster in protest of homosexuality. is a four or five -year-old what was your understanding of what homosexuality was and was westborough really an official baptist church or did you just claim that denomination westborough sees themselves as baptist named after john the baptist they have no affiliation with any other baptist church. they see that as scriptural. completely independent and what a new testament church should be. so then why did i understand it was? you are right for i came to understand it was a choice a decision that god had cause these people, my grandfather

say god doesn't hate you because you are gay you are gay because god hates you and has given you over to the sin. that having sex with men was hell and from the time i was very young my grandfather would stand in the pulpit to describe gay sex acts in detail. i write about this in the book so by the time i was seven or eight i could describe all of these to you because of what he taught at the pulpit to give us a sense of disgust to be that instinctive reaction when we saw gay people. >>host: you have been out of the church seven years what was the last conversation with your grandfather? >> with gramps was on his death bed i went there secretly. my sister and i secretly visit him in hospice march 2014.

i found out the end of february a brother had just left and i wasn't sure before that was the day i left the church. his voice was filled with disdain as he said to my mother i thought we had a said you will this time because it was heartbreaking to look at him and realizing i was losing my community and family and home and every aspect of my life. to leave the church. and then he was incredibly kind.

and those are shutting down the systems before he passed away but eventually he came back and was incredibly kind to my sister and me am so incredibly kind. >> why was he voting out quex. >> my brother said the day my grandfather was voted out he went to the church directly across the church lgbt q group had bought the house and they put up a rainbow so my grandfather went out and called out to those people running the charity and said you are good people. so when he was voted out that he cast his law and what further proof did they need. i see that westborough has tried not to talk about that

since i left for my literally saw a video where one of my uncles said that gramps is probably in hell. it is true he was voted out and it's heartbreaking. >> go-ahead topeka kansas. >>caller: i just came across you on tv i normally record something else but thank you i hope people read your book and get the truth of what is going on because a lot of people don't understand what is going on. >>host: being from topeka what is it like having the teethree baptist church in your city? >> sometimes i go to church i see them in different churches around town i just drive by and ignore them.

it is pretty colorful. [laughter] i have to hand it to them. ? >> i don't know much about them. >>host: thank you so let's hear about the city of topeka growing up. but when people recognize you you have kept phelps in your married name. >> i took it for granted prick i knew we would never leave. by grandfather's saw topeka as the seat of satan like the zip code begins with six success

one - - 666 and things like that he thought that it was the most evil place in the world. and we were put there to preach against the. but since i left the church i run into my family there but i can't help going back when i'm there i can't help it going back to the place i spent my life. but they are also human beings. it is complicated. i think i lost sight of your question. >>host: that's fine. author of the book on follow. she has been our guest on book tv. live coverage of the miami book festival continues we

have two historians rick atkinson who has begun his trilogy on the american revolution and then also about the impeachment of andrew johnson. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations]

>> welcome to those who are just joining us i serve as the campus president at two of miami-dade college campuses and i am a proud volunteer of the book fair for 40 years. thank you. [applause] so it is my pleasure to welcome you here to the 36th annual miami book fair here at miami-dade college it is a wonderful host of the literary event and we can do that because of some very generous supporters and i'm talking about friends and supporters can out light foundation while

caribbean meredith foundation. and many many others that support our book there every single year. miami-dade college also deserves a tribute to the students and faculty and staff of miami-dade college. [applause] that volunteer each year of the high-caliber that it is each and every year for your enjoyment and enrichment of our communities so thank you to miami-dade college in excess of 150 students to our community and those that come to us from afar. i always want to recognize the

friends of miami book fair for those in the middle row as well thank you for your friendship and your support and coming together that is for all of you who would like to join. thank you very much we also take this opportunity there will be a q&a at the end. once you ask your question take your seat and if you will go ahead and silence your devices so we can all enjoy the program. today we will have rick atkinson to come up to the stage right now and give you a

short biography on each of them. writ one - - rick atkinson. [applause] he is the best-selling author of the liberation trilogy. winner of the pulitzer prize for history the day of battle as well as the long gray line and many other books his awards include a pulitzer prize for journalism the george polk award for library literature award. he is a former staff writer and senior editor at the washington post and the author of the british are coming 1775

through 1777 including the aesthetic nation. which was named the best book of 2013 by the new york times. a member of the american academy of arts and sciences and also is a regular contributor to major publications such as the new york times book review. the new york review of books in the wall street journal and the nation the impeach or has provoked a period of american history where our country was rocked from the first impeachment of a sitting president please welcome rick

- - our authors. [applause] >> thank you very much. thank you for inviting me to be with you today in miami. the last time i was in miami to talk about the book with the third and final volume of the trilogy from world war ii and even then in 2013 i was wondering what to do next and to do for that campaign what i had done for the mediterranean and western european campaign it would require to start world war ii all over again with pearl harbor or even earlier. i could not shake that personal fascination with what i had as a kid that first that

i hope is a trilogy with the prologue of 1773 working george the third travels to the southern coast of england for a four-day review of the royal navy proud display of military muscle after britain's great triumph of the seven-year war the creation of the first british empire with a victory over the french and the spanish it is the year the sun never sets the phrase was coined then the subsequent battle early january 1777 which together revise the american helps to be

extinguished at that point to. there is a lot to dislike about the founding fathers in the war they wage for american independence starting with the assertion all men are created equal does not apply to 500,000 black slaves one out of five all citizens or residents of the 13 colonies were penned in 1776 for native americans or women or indigents during the american revolution those remained loyal to the british crown even those who were not certain of the rebellion against the government was subjected to dreadful treatment public shaming disenfranchisement beatings and torture and exile and sometimes execution. partisan belligerent for religion belligerent set i would've hanged my own brother

in a defensive war waged for basic rights they invaded canada in the attempt to win by negotiation it was the last invasion - - invasion so the enduring image of a farmer leaving his plow to go off in defense of liberty is mythical sometimes as small as 3000 a country of two and half million people especially after the initial enthusiasm that were roused at bunker hill faded 1775 relatively few american men volunteered for military service especially with the duration of badly

clothed or badly led continental army. and yet who would deny the creation is valid and thrilling? even in 2019 national unity is elusive when our rank or seems toxic the simple concept of truth we are and where we came from and what our forebears believe in the most profound question anyone can ask themselves, what they were willing to die for. at least 200,000 americans died for the cause a larger population to parish other than the civil war. so what can we learn? first this nation was born bickering.

[laughter] it is in the national genome. second there are foundational truths that are found self-evident and that leaders worthy of our enduring aberration rise to the occasion with grit and wisdom and grace and that we have greater perils that are existential that should be a great comfort. so we are the beneficiaries of an enlightened political heritage handed down from the revolutionary generation after many subsequent trials to include scriptures on how to divide power to keep it from accumulating in the hands of those that think primarily of themselves. we cannot let that heritage to slip away or allow that to be taken away or oblivious for

those who have given their lives to affirm and sustain that the american revolution for those that they fought for the usual territory that that improvised struggle of a common heritage by those visions of what the world could be the americans won by embracing the misconception over the british and the rebels could be wrongheaded they believe they had greater economic leverage and they actually possessed or in caricature of george the third with shrewd and was more complex than those who dominate the imagination and

even then crossing the stage somewhere in hamilton. [laughter] but they make three critical miscalculations that most remain loyal to the crown but to the firmness of military firepower to restore harmony and failure to restore that it would un- stitch the newly created british empire encouraging insurrections in canada, ireland and the sugar islands and india at 18th century version of the domino theory 150 years later. to also underestimate the war across 3000 miles of open

ocean in the age of sale. the british army in the revolution are unable to gather food from the american countryside without being ambush had to rely on a provision shift but of those transport vessels only eight of those 40 actually reached those forces in boston the rest were blown back to britain or to the west indies are intercepted by marauders. one year later the summer of 177-6950 forces to be shipped to move the artillery carriages to go anywhere of those that were sent from britain 412 died in the passage across the atlantic

they plagued the british for years even when the american rebels were fighting under the home turf it was a logistic enormous difficulty. one example was salt. without salt armies and navies cannot cure the beef and fish and pork that they needed. to bushels of salt worth 100 pounds of gear 1000 pounds of pork they imported 15 million bushels of this from the west indies or britain or southern europe but when the shooting started the trade embargo strangled two thirds of that supply encouraged us salt war along the coast so there are recipes how to make salt all the women and children down the jersey shore were sent to make salt john adams wrote 400 gallons of seawater are needed to boil off a single bushels that's

enormous supplies of firewood so 6000 pounds to build along the chesapeake bay in the end they collected only 50 bushels probably the most expensive salt in the history of salt. [laughter] so let me talk about george our last king queen elizabeth ii only recently opened up to outside scrutiny the papers in which she owns as part of a project to catalog and digitize to become king in the h and 19th century. 350,000 pages mostly previously unpublished with the reign of george the third i was among the first to allow him to take a look on april 2016 every morning i would show my badge with those 102 stone steps to go up to

the garrett of the round tower in the 11th century. and then the gorgeous oversized george was his own secretary and wrote not only most of the correspondents himself but as you path through the pages he is a great list maker listing the british garrisons abroad royal navy vessels under construction all the regiments in america with the rank-and-file was tabulated with the arithmetic scratchings. george copy on his own recipes for cough syrup. i will get you some. [laughter] vinegar, brown sugar boiled in

silver and insecticide wormwood vinegar and quicksilver. he married an obscure german princess charlotte north one --dash charlottesville north virginia she learned to play god save the king they married six hours after they met he had the marriage bedroom decorator was 700 yards of blue to mask my - - damask because nothing says i love you like a bowl of goldfish. [laughter] the happy union proved fertile, she produced children with lunar regularity eventually numbering 15 he is a caring father and invested in the rearing of his kids and throw this time trying to figure out the proper course of the empire for the monarchy. he is easy enough to dislike

but impossible to dismiss already test. the war he chooses to wage because he is the hardest of the hardliners is brutal and bloodied and often savage killing in the 18th century is intimate at close range often with the bayonet because those muskets were mostly in accurate beyond 80 yards. stalwarts have calculated in the fight of lexington and concorde on april 191775 the first day of the war the rebels fired at least 75000 rounds but only one out of every 300 bullets hit a red coat. the shot heard around the world probably missed. [laughter] those are some of the nuts and

bolts of the 18th century but the emotional guts of the revolution still moves us makes us feel those people for more than two centuries ago have something to say to us. we sure admire them for their tenacity and sacrifice not only displayed by men serving drinks that others caught up in the events of those times one hadn't seen her husband captain peters in months when she wrote to him pray come home as soon as possible a visit from you at any time would be agreeable. meanwhile she would harvest the farm sell the oxen for cash to keep them solvent and keep faith with the future and signed letters your loving wife until dead. [laughter]

general nathaniel gray makes one of the worst operational decisions from rhode island leaves 3000 soldiers exposed and vulnerable fort washington on the upper west side of manhattan island where they are trapped and killed or captured. he picks himself up and takes a deep breath and copies his wife the virtue of the americans are put to the test prick i am hearty and well amidst all the hardships and had good courage don't be distressed all things will turn out for the best. is speaking to us to you and to me the central figures those i have been involved in reverence of that perpetual

scrutiny that washington is a case in point. yes when he died in mount vernon you cannot square that morally the shortcomings as a tactical commander with long island the man who could never tell a lie with washington's lot is in life i just trust everything he wrote to transform the demigod into a mortal but the great responsibility enlarges him advised to sacrifice a personal interest to a greater good with dignity moral stamina incorrupt ability and

what we should demand in our leaders at all levels. [applause] >> historian said the american civil war is a redemptive tragedy the same can be said of the american revolution to embody the aspirations of the idealistic people to bring forth a nation of founding to write the essay even now the war for independence offers clues into the national temperament. a bright mere to fashion of resilience and brutality we have come far in almost two and half centuries with power

and diversity and tolerance and sheer scale but those remain nearer than we know what those issues with individual liberty versus security the proper limits of executive power the obligations of citizenship for a more equitable society to persist in 2019. democracy tells us it is something a nation must be doin doing. even jefferson's declaration our scripture to hold these truths to be self-evident at something a nation must be doing but to be deductive men

and women invited them not to know their place but to seek and demand a better place american revolution 3089 days it was enduring the creation of the american republic the most remarkable achievements nearly 90000 more days have elapsed of them sitting in philadelphia of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. those who have suffered and died from those principles more than a perfunctory acknowledgment for better and for worse their story is our story and the fight remains our fight. thank you so much.

[applause] what a pleasure to be here and with rick atkinson and to talk about yet another war. [laughter] but this one is the aftermath with the impeachment of andrew johnson but a timely topic and in fact a friend of mine recently called me a witch for having started this book when we were deep in the obama administration so really the

interesting question behind is why i began investigating the impeachment of andrew johnson and in some sense skipping to what rick said is that the impeachment when i came to understand it is a sense of the enduring aspiration especially since that happened in the aftermath of a very brutal war a tragic war in many senses. that there were so few books written about the impeachment of andrew johnson if anybody knew anything about that episode was close on the heels of war that the trier had been

referred to in the 1956 book by jfk called profiles encourage. and in that particular book one chapter was devoted was devoted to a republican that that stood against his party to cast the deciding vote to acquit andrew johnson to keep him in on - - keep him in office and for kennedy this was the profile encourage because this particular man was a senator from kansas who cast the deciding vote.

but what seemed odd to me was that kennedy wrote the actual cause for which the president johnson was impeached and then tried was not fundamental to the nation. that perplexed me because it seemed to me impossible that and impeachment the first of her presidential impeachment would occur not only right after the civil war but the first ever presidential assassination that it was not somehow essential to the welfare of the nation. and in this particular context what the book also said the reason johnson was impeached because there were some fanatics who really wanted to victimize the president and

victimize the south. this particular point of view as i came to understand was actually born it seems to me partly from the movie the birth of a nation where the leader of the opposition andrew johnson where thaddeus stevens was cast diabolically bent on destroying the south that we even thought was to be a sign of the devil. but if you think of the context of the aftermath of war, you have to reconsider what might have happened. because andrew johnson and the entire country asks serious questions about serious questions about the direction the country would take and what term was the 11th state

of the former confederacy be allowed to reenter the union? so in other words so that 11th state waging war against the union be welcomed back into the house and the senate as if they had never succeeded? what were the terms for reentry? remember, congress gets to decide the qualifications of its own members. andrew johnson when he came to be president after the assassination refused to call a special session of congress to decide these matters and decided to reestablish southern state governments pretty much single-handedly by executive proclamation and furthermore he argued since the constitution for this secession, the union had never been dissolved. that is why they said murder

is against the law lincoln was never assassinated but to johnson's way of thinking they that pledge the former government with the rights and privileges were stored as soon as the government was deemed loyal. they had to renounce the session and accept the abolition of slavery and swear allegiance to the federal government. but that leaves a very important question that nobody seems to be thinking about even in 1956. what about the 4 million black men and women recently freed but were denied even the ability to read and write? what about their civil rights? should in the newly freed population control their education and employment and representation in government? white republicans and black leaders asked andrew johnson

answers the question and was heard to say this is a country for white men and by god as long as i am president it shall be a government by and for white men which really is astonishing when he said that in 1865 it was as astonishing as it is today. once johnson got into the white house he not only started to reestablish southern state governments based on white supremacy, but by executive order and started to pardon confederates at the rate of 100 per day and detailed what congress passed with the civil rights bill to restore the legal and property rights that had legal rights to black citizens which gave them citizenship.

instead what johnson did was restore the property rights of the confederates i'm sorry authorized their return to government post. about white southerners use this policy to concoct a new form of states rights that they call old rule in one state legislature after another they were passing black ordinances designed to prevent free men and women for traveling through making contracts and for example the louisiana state legislature the police organized the state militia to take one brutal example of two thirds of the 550 man force in 1866 after a

congressional congress was organized they were executed point-blank while they paid for their lives all the corset one - - horses were kicked and stabbed w e-b the boy was a continuation of the civil war that was 1866 johnston on - - johnson had been in office very long what he was doing at that point was touring the south to rally support for himself and against the passage of the ratification of the 14th amendment which congress had hammered together to enshrine civil rights legislation into the constitution. he went on a tear yelling

those that disagree with him should be hanged or executed. ulysses s grant was so mortified they had to lock him in a baggage car so nobody would see him. it did not come easily or quickly. james ashley who was disgusted by johnson's behavior with the abuse of power and his denial of legitimacy of congress and said the 11 confederate states were not seeded then congress could not pass any laws it by that logic the 13th amendment abolishing slavery was also not legitimate people were so disgusted by this they call for johnson's impeachment

1867 and then to buy time of the investigation that basically went nowhere. and that anybody knew what the impeachment of the president would look like and that was necessary. a conviction that requires a person be removed from office we don't even know which person may or may not be persecuted by law. james madison had objected that it was too easy all we know high crime misdemeanor trees in a bribery are the grounds for impeachment and it

takes a majority vote in the house but the question still remains does the president have to commit demonstrably illegal acts to be impeached? should in a man and a position of power be a held accountable for his actions? should deplorable or bigoted or reckless acts be considered if they weaken other branches of government? and federalist 65 alexander hamilton clarified the high crime is the abuse of executive authority within abuse or violation of public trust impeachment is a natural inquest of public men. but is still to proceed of violations in the law or infractions against public

trust. andrew johnson was impeached 1868 finally because he actually violated a law. for a long time and with that policies and that was moderate the civil rights legislation did not confer political rights and to enshrine those rights as ratification and then to create what they considered a new fair and enlightened country.

and for the civil war to actually confer voting rights of black men, forget women this was in the 20th century to confer these rights when we can and degrade and destroy the government. but allowing white southerners to rejoin the union quickly while at the same time denying black men the vote seemed too many republicans black and white if we are planting the seeds of rebellion which within the next quarter of a century he said will germinate and produce the same blood he strife we just ended. in other words we need to pass legislation to make sure there is equal representation in the country it also pass the

tenure of office act with constitutionality which is presumed to protect the secretary of war stanton who protects the military and black men and white republicans. that's what johnson did to violate that particular law no longer did the house have a choice it voted overwhelmingly to undertake extraordinary steps the first-ever impeachment of the president. johnson was subsequently tried in the senate and acquitted by only one vote so impeachment was not a mistake in incidence it really did have to do with the direction the country was going to take and in fact the tenure of office act violation was really not why johnson was impeached beyond it was the

recognition even by those who were aware that impeachment was absolutely crucial to the nation and its welfare and future and the future envisioned that they understood the time was calm was long overdue. this impeachment was one of the last great battles and that the national government may actually free itself from human oppression and that was the reason for impeachment it was and is fundamental to the nation which in a certain ironic sense why we learn so little about it and that seems good enough to me. thank you. [applause]

>> i think there is time for questions. >>. >> the obvious question please comment on her present situation. should there be a conviction? b mcnair has to be the impeachment first. >> we are assuming the house will do that. >>. >> i first heard about you from my twin sons after the towers were struck on 9/11 they wanted to go to annapolis and serve their country and

they read many of your books to prepare for that experience now they are out of service and in grad school. thank you for that. your mom has been reading your books and i have been enjoying them. >> did you go to west point? >> notre dame. i enjoy them very much and it left me with a few conclusions in the end. my first conclusion is that countries to go to war for economic reasons versus philosophical or political reasons. and the other was that george washington had so much trouble in the new york area with those battles is because we didn't have a navy so the royal navy was amazing but not only until the french came

into blockade to created the siege of yorktown that we could actually win the war and we almost didn't. by the way my nephews are in middle school i impressed them about my knowledge. thank you they think the brilliant. [laughter] >> thank you. yes we tried to build a small continental navy we had some frigates under construction most of them never got into the fight the royal navy is not only the greatest navy of the 18th century but ever until that point so it really constrained what the americans could do to fight a campaign that was not land-based. that would plague washington and the congress and everybody else involved throughout the war and not until the french

got to their big fleet did we succeed because of the french and our allies then to alienate all the other powers that the only thing proverbial leave worse than fighting with allies is fighting without them next time we give a thumb in the eye to the closest friends with her canadians or brits or the kurds or whatever there are lessons to be learned. [applause] people go to war for all different kinds of reasons the economics historically because their feelings are hurt or because of a minor incidents that don't seem like legitimate cause of war. i have been spent my entire

working were going to war writing about war one of the few universal truths is that it never goes the way you think it will go. will never go to way you think it will go ever. that is worth remembering the next time we say we have adventures around the world. >> the civil war's philosophica philosophical. >> thank you so much let's give our authors a round of applause. thank you so much for joining us. [applause] [inaudible conversations] the book signing is on the other side of the elevator. thank you. [inaudible conversations]

>>host: book tv live coverage of the miami book festival continues. coming up in 15 minutes the book out to be the antiracist of the national book award notes on the all-american family will be speaking live in about 15 minutes or so

working for wired magazine new era of cyberwar of the most dangerous hackers. >> with the russian state sponsored hackers who are well-versed starting in ukraine and causing not only the first ever blackouts that the first and second over two years and that made it clear this was a true cyberwar after inflicting the consequences of critical infrastructure, as i told the story to wired magazine i cap hearing that we need to pay attention to the cyberwar in ukraine because

sooner or later it will affect the rest of the world that russia was using ukraine as a test lab for its techniques and the prediction came true. just a few months after my first piece about this they launched a piece of malware that spreads beyond ukraine's borders with the worst cyberattack in history causing $10 billion. is like a detective story to follow this one hacker group it is truly unprecedented with these dangerous acts then finally a disaster story and then the work unfolds across the globe. >> to be first discovered at their early attacks in eastern europe and in the united states as well they had this code that was a spy tool and

actually american electric grids to early spy and reconnaissance and each of those instances they had a little snippet to identify the victims each one was a reference to the science-fiction novel which features these giant monsters so that the group that discovered the hacking operation off the first campaign it is an apt name because the sand were ms. the monster that lurks beneath the surface and rises from underground to do terrible disruptive things on a massive scale which is exactly what the hackers turned out to be. >>host: where are they from which russian intelligence quex. >> that is the detective story

they are part of the russian military and religions agency the same involved in the engineering of the elections of 2016. but the 2016 election was a different group but sand were doesn't just carry out espionage or hacking or leaking they are responsible for massive acts of sabotage that takes down power grids to destroy entire networks of computers that took out the entire global it network or new jersey pharmaceuticals causing them hundreds of millions of dollars in damage. then ultimately those across the united states had their medical systems crippled by the sand were malware as well

so it's a different level of hacking it's a new form that we see at the heart of these pieces of technology that we depend on in our civilian life. >>host: ukraine is in the news these days is there a connectio connection? . . . . a place they can withhold military aid in the midst of a terrible war that has killed 13,000 ukrainians displaced millions of people and a cyber war as the book records. part of that is seems like also aid designed to help protect ukraine from information

warfare as well. the way that trump ignored the plight of ukraine is a part of the book because he could see were unfolding see the warning signs that what he was doing in ukraine what russia was experimenting with ukraine would sooner or later be used in the west as well ignore those signs our government ignored the signs. both the obama administration and the trump administration failed to call out retrospectively until it was too late. >> are you saying that u.s. intelligence could follow these sand worm attacks in real time? >> it was pretty clear to both the obama and trump administration these hackers carrying out these terrible unprecedented attacks crossing every redline to ever try to set for attacks on ãnot only russian but i'm pretty sure both administrations knew they were the gr you. both administrations, we have

an incredible intelligence agency and community that hacked the hackers watch over their shoulders and see what they are doing exactly who they are. it also has human spires to follow the actual human beings carrying out the attacks giving inside their ãthe federal government knew what they were doing from the start. but nonetheless, the c government allow this to happen because ukraine is considered this far off over there place, not us, not even part of nato. russia was allowed to carry out these cyber attacks with impunity which was a terrible missed opportunity to start to draw those red lines to create norms to say no one should ever attack a civilian power grid or takedown hospitals or other pieces of civilian infrastructure. >> was it beneficial to the west to see these attacks happen so that they could

protect against them? >> for those who are watching, certainly there are lessons to be learned from ukraine. in the private sector the security industry i think even the government parts of the government are watching what was happening in ukraine, it was russia's test lab for cyber war and also a petri dish for us to see the effects happening but we didn't act on them. we depend on our government to ãbto say to countries like russia we see what you're doing in ukraine and it's unacceptable. this violates some sort of geneva convention for cyber war which does not exist but should. we could've looked at ukraine to see that russia was not only experimenting with new technical capabilities, they were seeing what they could get away with as well. we essentially sensed this implicit signal to russia that you can do whatever you like there. the result was that there

attacks escalated and escalated until they hit us as well. ãbshut down 17 terminals and ports around the world we are talking about tens of thousands of trucks in semi- giant trucks containing containers and container ships with tens of thousands of shipping containers arriving imports and nobody knows how to mold them a fiasco where mirrors quit brain-dead had no inventory systems. couldn't even send an email to the truck drivers lining up that los angeles and newark and spain and the netherlands and lumbar eyes, a fiasco on a global scale is hard to get your mind around it also in merck they had to borrow their own hpv vaccine from the centers for disease control because their manufacturing was disrupted. in mondelez which owns nabisco and cadbury each of these companies lost hundreds of millions of dollars. it's a scale of disruption that

has never occurred before. totaling $10 billion around the world. a number we've never even seen anything really close to. also getting to the kind of things that affect our lives, medical records and these hospitals across the u.s. were taken down as well. that is something that can be measured in dollars. we missed an opportunity to try to stop this escalation before it was too late and has affected us too and the next one could be worse. >> when you talk about not pedia what exactly is that? >> not pedia was a warm, and automatic spreading piece of code released by these russian hackers it was called not pedia because it looked at first like ran somewhere. and ran somewhere as i'm sure you know, is a piece of malicious code that encrypts your computer and then demands a ransom for you to get your files back. it was a kind of notorious piece of ransom called bethea

non-pedia was designed to look like pedia but it wasn't ran somewhere at all. this worm was a destructive tool that spread and destroyed every computer it touched what was designed to look like ran somewhere like pedia but was not pedia. he couldn't even pay the ransom that was just a cover story designed to help these hackers cover their tracks and disguise intentions. >> andy greenberger, ip addresses always traceable? >> certainly not. part of the story of these hackers is how they began to make their tracks harder and harder to follow. every good hacker knows how to mask their trail to bounce their connections to blind alleys in the internet so the ip address is the last jump point. tracking those every difficult, which is part of why deterring

the cyber attacks is not a straightforward thing. but sand worm in particular started out carrying out rather obvious attacks from some of their first attacks they were tied to a server that actually had a russian language how-to manual for their files. at first they were little bit sloppy but by the end of this book more the last big operations i describe in detail is the cyber attack on the 2018 olympics stop they actually took down the entire ip network of the winter olympics last year and in that case they planted all of these fake fingerprints in the cyber attack in their codes so that it looked at first like it might be north korea or china or russia but it was all of these false flags integrated in layers of the codes. sand worm is escalating not just in facts of disruption but also deception. it's a very scary idea as we look forward to 2020 in the

election that the next time this group appears we may not even recognize them. we may initially they might be in disguise. >> let's finish up by talking about two terms that you use in sand worm, a cyber global arms race and the intelligence industrial complex. >> the first of those i think is one of the important themes of the book is that as a global community we are watching the cyber warfare attacks escalate. by that i mean destructive attacks that don't just arches used for spying or stealing money but taking down infrastructure, breaking the kind of core machinery in the center of our lives. what we depend on. instead of trying to restrain these cyber weapons, every government in the world seems instead to want to get in on the game. they're all attracted this power like lord of the rings. everybody sees this power thinks they can use it for their own advantage rather than

trying to restrain their adversary. that's leading to a very dangerous arms race. >> andy greenberg's new book just out, sand worm, a new era of cyber war in the hunt for the kremlin's most dangerous hackers. we appreciate you being on booktv. >> thank you for talking about this. booktv's live coverage of the miami book fair continues, you will hear from authors even candy national book award winner sarah broome and mitchell jackson, this is live coverage. you.[inaudible background conversations] [music]

[inaudible background conversations] [music] good afternoon. good afternoon and welcome to the 36th annual miami book fair. [applause] we are grateful to miami-dade college as the host and convene her of this prize literary event. i am nyla harrison attorney in the miami office of the global law firm ãbvolunteering here today with hundreds of other volunteers who helped to make this all possible. can we have a round of applause for all the volunteers.

in addition to miami-dade college for hosting this great event year after year we are also grateful for the support of our sponsors and friends with the knight foundation royal caribbean oh l north america, meredith and jess berg foundation the degroot foundation and many other sponsors. one of my favorite things to do at the fair is to give a special thank you and say hello to the friends of the fair, are the any friends of the fair in the audience today? >> thank you so much for your support. [applause] friends receive multiple benefits throughout the year and membership of course i do invite all of you should join the friends of the fair and follow friends of the fair on social media or sign up for the newsletter. friends of the fair will be building upon its past experiences by establishing new

programs for youth and emerging writers, please take advantage of that. the session this afternoon will go on for about 45 minutes, during that time, there will be an opportunity for question and answers and the authors will be signing books outside directly after the session. i like to ask you if you would silence your phones at this time so that we may all take part in the wonderful session. it's with great pleasure that i go ahead and introduce to you three authors for this afternoon. ingram candy, sarah broome, and mitchell jackson. [applause] [applause] abram candy is a new york times best-selling author and the founding director of the anti-racist research and policy center at american university. a professor of history and international relations and frequent public speaker candy is a columnist at the atlantic.

he is the author of stand from the beginning the definitive history and racist ã he is the author of how to be an antiracist. bringing it all together with an engaging personal narrative of his own awakenings antiracism. sarah broome has appeared in the new yorker, the new york times magazine, the oxford american and oprah magazine among others. she received her masters in journalism from the university of california berkeley and awarded the waiting foundation creative nonfiction grant in 2016. she is the author of yellow house in 1961 sarah broome's mother i've remade thought ãb and built her world inside of

it. widowed, ivory may remarried sarah's father simon broome and their combined family would eventually number 12 children. yellow house tells a story of 100 years of her family and their relationship to a home and a neglected area of one of america's most metallized cities. mitchell jackson's debut novel one curtis j gaines award for literary excellence as owners include awaiting award fellowships from the komen center of the new degree. ted, the landed foundation the ford foundation and the center for nonfiction, his writing has appeared in the new new yorker, harper's magazine, new york times book review, the paris review, the guardian and elsewhere. he is the author of survival map, an assistant professor of creative writing at the university of chicago. this book is an electrifying

reckoning and an essential addition to the national conversation on race and class. with that, please help me in joining to welcome our three authors for this afternoon. [applause] >> good afternoon everyone. i think before we begin i just want to congratulate sarah for winning the national book award. [applause] of course if you haven't read her book the yellow house, it's available outside, i think it may have already been sold out but you can always get it

somewhere else. make sure you do. >> thank you all for coming am very excited ãbwere to go up there and read okay all right. [laughter] i'm very excited to be reading with sarah and abram. very much respect their work. it was there for that phenomenal speech the other night. it was amazing to be there and witness. i am going to talk about white women, that's my addition to this conversation. i have an essay called apples in my essay collection which is about them as a subject, which also is born out of my father

and my mother in their relationship to white women. i will read a little expert and then chat a little bit. one morning, big chris, dad, popped up in mom's job and sold her grand deal get rich in a flash scheme and borrowed $500, no small sum. then it was no hear from current oc from cuba for long enough to be disrespectful. two consecutive nights before the morning of this tale, mom rode by ãapartment and swept for dad's car. the morning, she and her sister friend dawn and her sister aunt essie crowded in her red triumph spitfire again to see what they could see, which is to say who they could find. in matters regarding her one true love, mom in those days was not a want for grip.

she parked on the street admonished on to wait in the car and drafted her sister aunt essie to accompany her as she waddled up to unselect the department and knuckled the door. the white women who would become uncle x's bottom broad answered him with chrissy here? chrissy back there in the room said uncle x ãbecause either she didn't know mom or didn't know better or both. lasted a couple weeks or was it to be. oh god, uncle x this woman said and tried to close the door but mom jammed her foot in and forced away in. sc watcher, mom said as she appraised the scene she stopped toward the kitchen and hunted the jurors for a butcher knife and kept huffing toward the bedroom. she swung the door open and beheld the soon to be father of her second son asleep beside a white woman. a white woman.

that white woman popped up and made the kind of faith we might expect from a woman awakened to the site of a crazed person wielding a butcher knife at the foot of her bed. the white woman nudged the dad, chrissy get up but dad in his purge tested conscious didn't budge she knows to be good get up somebody's here. that's when dad picked his head off the pillow and cracked an eye open, door? he called mom's middle name as was his custom fitted as if he'd seen an apparition in omen. dad snapped ãbit's not what you think. it's not what you think dora. i'm six months pregnant with your baby, the baby you been

begging me to have since forever can you come to my job and take my $500, $500 from your pregnant girlfriend come you take my money and run off for days without a word and now here you is in bed with this white broad? i'm going to skip ahead a little bit. [laughter] my father was a pimp, i always try to figure out another way to say that. there's no other way to say it. he would often cheat with women who did not look like my mother so this essay is really me trying to investigate why it was he was cheating with women that she considered white. i came up with his idea that white women were the apple of the world and this is me trying to define what that means. the apple is part myth, grounded in harris garduno has garage.as its tree bearing

immortality granting golden fruit. we could trace the myth back to hippo minutes tossing the golden apples of atalanta's feet to win a race of mortal consequence the myth of the apple also features elements of eris crushing zeus's bridal shower and causing commotion among the goddesses. and of course, the epic beef between the greek and the trojans. with that golden apple of discord and though the jury is forever out on whether it was indeed an apple, i'm counting as part of the apple genesis the old testament myth of eve coaxing adam into eating the fruit that nevermore ruined our shore's shot at an identical life. the apple is part fairytale she never allowed to be a mere woman or should i say a human.

she is deemed elegant, pious, sacred, pure, virtuous, virginal, beautiful, moral, sublime, culturally, graceful she's a stereo, the equal of magical queens and processes beings who alone have been blessed with the biological gift of bearing the best of mankind. the white race. and was a fairytale without a monster. otherwise known as the swarthy barbarians from which apples must be secured by the men who pledge their safekeeping in what is a fairytale without an antagonist the antagonist being on calmly and lascivious woman covered mere woman or less than that maligned system for details and jezebels and mammy's into tainting his peer white blood. the apple is part legend, for proof i point to colonial times in the unfortunate adulteress apple branded with the scarlet

a or whipped or murdered and the ones who in tobacco fields committed to women's work while the man built the colonies. the revolutionary war torn scores the women blossoming into applewood into legends. some of whom plodded along side their independence minded husband like martha washington who shivered beside the future first president during that frigid winter in valley forge. like less known others who for the whole of the worse cabg food or cooked or stone or news the wounded back to health. there was those who disguised themselves as men to join in combats and those who manage homes and children while the men were off living as little more than a husband's chattel property. they couldn't draft a will or own real estate or vote or could even sign a contract. decades later ãbapples to high tea in the parlors wearing high net full sleep drugs the black market cotton they also

boasted their legend by keeping plantations running while the men were off losing the civil war. the legend of apples reached its zenith following that civil war in the post-reconstruction era some claim named for charles lynch during those care tested decades that advance among other alibis the purported protection of an apples purity from a whistle away were glance, is reason enough to turn a black man into an illinois courts. arrows later the coveted purity catalyze dad in his northern lips to fit straight the rules, ãband in many cases, my mom and her guilt into all forgiving flagellants. much but never enough has been said about the extreme violence white men have been willing to

perpetrate in the name of chivalric fraternal protection of the woman they've invested or burdened with the expectation of priceless. whom they waited with the lifetime roles as the incubators and progenitors of the white race. let me call it. white men were never protecting the purity of white women for credit no mortal women satisfy his needs know how. the way i see it, the apple hasn't essential shipment enough of them for trade the white man the master race as it's known would cease. indeed the white man has committed malevolence after malevolence to secure his hegemony over the apple perforce his most prized possession she being vital to his dominion over whomever and whatever he envisaged.

i'm going to stop there because i'm just as excited to hear them read and speak as everyone else in this audience. [applause] >> as you can see, we are on our own appear. [laughter] which is i think the best thing that could possibly happen. i'm going to read from the beginning of the yellow house, a section called maps. from high up 15,000 feet above where the aerial photographs are taken 4121 wilson avenue the address i know best is a minuscule point, a scabbed of green. in satellite images shot from higher still my former street dissolves into the toe of louisiana's book. from this vantage point our

address now might size would appear to sit in the gulf of mexico distance lends perspective but it can also shade, misinterpret, from these great heights looking down my brother carl would not be seen. carl, who is also my brother ã since his days and nights away at 4121 wilson avenue at least five times a week after working his maintenance job at nasa or when he's not fishing or near to the water where he loves to be 4015 days past the water beyond all news cycles known to man still sits a skinny man in shorts, white socks pulled up to his kneecaps one goal picture frame around his front tooth.

sometimes you can find carl alone on our lot poised on an ice chest searching the view as if for a sign as if for a wonder or else seated at a peacock colored dining table with intricately carved legs holding court. the tableware carl sometimes sits is on the spot where our living living room used to be. instead of lord there is green grass trying to grow. see, gesturing with the long he feels like it. see his legs crossed at the ankle a long legged man knotted up. i could see him there now in my minds eye silence and hoping a beer, babysitting ruins. but that is not his language or sentiment. he would never betray the yellow house like that. carl often finds company on

wilson avenue where he keeps watch, friends will arise and pop their trunks revealing coolers containing spirits on ice. help yourself baby, they will say. if someone has to pee they do what used to be our den or the bright blue porta potty sitting in the back of the yard where the shed once was. now this plastic vertical bathroom is the only structure on the lot. written on its front in white block letters on black backgrounds city of new orleans. i was stacked 12 or 13 history telling books about new orleans, beautiful crescent new orleans yesterday and today, new orleans as it was, new orleans the place and the people fabulous new orleans. new orleans a guide to

america's most interesting city so on and so forth, i have thumbed through each of these past voluminous sections of the french quarter the garden district and st. charles avenue in search of the area of the city where i grew up new orleans east. mentions are rare and stair afterthoughts. there is no guided tours to this part of the city except for the disaster bus tours that became an industry after katrina carting visitors around pointing out the great destruction of neighborhoods that were never known or set foot in before the water except by their residents. imagine then that the streets are dead quiet and you live on those dead quiet streets and there is nothing left of anything he wants owned. those rare survivors still present on the scene working in those skeletal byways are addressed in blue disposable

jumpsuits and wearing facemasks to avoid being burned by the black mold everywhere in their homes climbing up the walls forming slippery abstract figures underfoot. while this is going on and you're wondering whether you will find remains of anything you ever loved, tourist or passing are passing by and it air-conditioned bus to snaping images of your personal destruction. there is something affirming i can see in the acknowledgment by the tourists of the horrendous destructive act but it still might feel like invasion and i do not believe the tour buses ever made it to the street where i grew up. on a detailed city map once given to me by avis rental car, the french quarter has been shaded in light turquoise magnified in a box at the bottom of the page new orleans

eased his cut off, a point beyond. a blank space on someone's mental map. this is perhaps a practical matter, new orleans east is 50 times the size of the french quarter.70% of the city's landmass properly mapped it might swallow the page whole. what the avis map does not tell you is that to get the seven miles from the french quarter to the yellow house in which i grew up he would take interstate 10 heading east when this portion of the interstate opened in 19 6800s of great oaks along claiborne avenue the black shopping district for my mother and grandmother had been chopped down, roots evicted from the ground. 155 houses were demolished to make way. driving the interstate you will know that you are on track when you see signs saying view caray

become a viable exit but do not get off. stay on. after another four miles you arrive at the bridge we called the high-rise for the dramatic arc it makes over the industrial canal that connects the mississippi river to lake ã but exiles eastern new orleans from the rest of the city. being at the top of the high-rise feels like resting on the verge of discovery.but the dissent is cool and steep. what's traversed by native american tribes but now carry cars all the way to florida or texas chef mentor bifurcate the short industry almost ended wilson avenue where i grew up from the longer residential and of mostly birdhouses in my

former elementary school originally named jefferson davis after the confederate president before becoming ernest morreale after the first black mayor of new orleans. it is nameless now. a field of green grass bounded by a chain-link sense. even though i write this i'm troubled by what it meant for us, me and my 11 siblings to have to cross chef mentor highway which was then and is now a sea of prostitution with cars pulling over sometimes partway onto the sidewalks, creeping alongside you even if you were only a child and an area these were mostly men in cars making deals. cars could drag you down chef mentor without realizing it as one drag my sister karen when she was eight years old drivers

and speeding cars self-destructed on the highway elvin my childhood friend would die in this way. someone could grab and abduct you while you stood there on chef mentor neutral ground as we call medians or are we see you standing there when you did not want to be seen as i would not, many years into young womanhood when i avoided showing people the place where i lived when i think of chef mentor highway end up being cut off from the other side of the street from the city center plane cut off i think of all this. by bringing you to hear to the yellow house i have gone against my learnings. you know this house not all that comfortable for other people, my mother was always saying. before it was the yellow house, the only house i knew, it was a greenhouse, the house my 11

siblings knew. the yellow house was witness to our lives when it fell down, something in me burst. the mother is always saying begin as you want to add that my beginning proceeds me. absences allow us one power over them. they do not speak a word. we say of them whatever we want. still they hover pointing fingers at her back. no place to go now but into deep ground. thank you. [applause] >> i prefer to let her keep reading the rest of the book.

i'm reading from the introduction to "how to be antiracist" this part is set when i'm a college ãbi should say high school senior. giving a speech at an mlk oratorical contacts. i remember the mlk competition so fondly. but when i recall the racist speech i gave, i flush with shane. what would be doctor king's message for the millennial? let's visualize an angry 71-year-old doctor king and i began my remix of king's "i have a dream" speech. it was joyous, i started, or emancipation from enslavement but now 135 years later the negro is still not free. i was already thundering.my tone angry, more malcolm then

martin. our use minds are in captivity i did not say our youth mines are in captivity in captivity erases ideas as i would say no. >> they think it's okay to be those who are most feared in our society. as if it was their fault they were so feared. they think it's okay not to think, i charged. raising the classic racist idea that black youths don't value education as much as their nonblack counterparts. no one seemed to care that this well-traveled figurehead floated on anecdotes but had never been grounded in proof. still the crowd encouraged me with their applause. i kept shooting out unproven and disproven racist ideas about all the things wrong with black youth ironically on the day when all things right about black youth were on display.

i started pacing wildly back and forth on the runway for the pulpit gaining momentum. "they think it's okay to climb the high tree of pregnancy. they think it's okay to confine their dreams to sports and music, applause, had i forgotten that i am a not black youth was the one who would confined his dream to sports and i was calling black youth they stop who on earth did i think i was? apparently my placement on that illustrious stage had lifted me out of the realm of the ordinary and thus inferior black youngster and into the realm of the rare and extraordinary. in my applause flights of oratory i did not realize that to say something about a racial group is to say something is inferior about a racial group. i did not realize to say something is inferior about a racial group is to say a racist

idea. i thought i was serving my people when in fact i was serving up racist ideas about my people to my people. the black judge seemed to be eating it up and clapping me on my back for more. i kept giving more. their minds are being held captive and our adults minds are right there beside them. i said, motioning to the floor. because they somehow think that the cultural revolution that began on the day of my dreams burst is over. how can it be over when many times we are unsuccessful because we lack intestinal fortitude, applause. how can it be over when our kids leave their houses not knowing how to make themselves only knowing how to not make themselves? applause. how can it be over if all of this is happening in our community, i asked.lowering

my voice. i say to you my friends. even though this cultural revolution that even though this cultural revolution may never be over, i still have a dream. i still have a nightmare. that the memory of this speech, whenever i muster the courage to recall it anew, it is hard for me to believe i finished high school in the year 2000 touting so many racist ideas erases culture had handed me the ammunition to shoot black people, to shoot myself, and i took it and used it, internalized racism is the real black on black crime. how is a dupe, a chomp, who saw the ongoing struggles of black people on mlk day 2000 and decided that black people themselves were to blame. this is the consistent function

of racist ideas and of any kind of bigotry more broadly to manipulate us into seeing people as the problem instead of the policies that ensnare them. language by the 45th president of the united states offers a clear example of a whole this racist language and thinking works. long before he became president, donald trump like to say "laziness is a trait in blacks" when he decided to run for president in his plan for making america great again, defaming latina immigrants as criminals. he promised a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. once he became president he routinely called his black critics stupid. he claimed immigrants from haiti all have aids while praising white supremacists as very fine people.

in the summer of 2017. through it all, whenever someone pointed out the obvious, trump responded with variations of a familiar refrain, no, no, i'm not a racist. i'm the least racist person you ever interviewed that you ever met, that you ever encountered. and i would probably add now, and the least racist person anywhere in the world as he said this summer. trumps behavior may be exceptional but his denials are normal. when racist ideas resound, denials that those ideals are racist typically follow. when racist policies resound, denials that those policies are racist also follow. denial is the heartbeat of racism. beating across ideologies,

racist in nations. it's beating within us. many of us who strongly call out trumps racist ideas will strongly deny our own. how often do we become defensive when someone calls something we've done or said racist. how many of us would agree with this statement racist isn't a descriptive word it's a pejorative word. it's the equivalent of someone saying "i don't like you". these are actually the words of white supremacist richard spencer who lack trump identifies as not racist. how many of us who despise the trumps and white supremacists of the world, share their definition of not racist. what's the problem with being not racist? it's a claim that signifies neutrality. i am not racist, neither am i

aggressively against racism. there is no neutrality in the racism struggle the opposite of racist is not racist is antiracist. what's the difference? one either endorses the idea of racial hierarchy of the racist or racial equality as an antiracist. one either believes problems are rooted in groups of people as a racist or locates the roots of problems in power and policies as an antiracist. one either allows racial inequities to persevere as a racist or confronts racial inequities as an antiracist. there is no in between safe space of not racist the claim of not racist neutrality is a mask for racism. this may seem harsh but it's important at the outset that we apply one of the core

principles of antiracism which is to return the word racist itself back to its proper usage. racist is not as richard spencer argues, a pejorative. some of the worst word in the english language, not the equivalent of a slur, it's descriptive and the only way to undo racism is to consistently identify and describe it and then dismantle it. the attempt to turn this usefully descriptive term into an almost unusable slur is of course designed to do the opposite. to freeze us into inaction. the good news, you'll want to talk about good news? the good news is that racist and antiracist are not fixed identities. we can be a racist one minute and an antiracist the next.

what we say about race what we do about race in each moment determines what? not who we are. i used to be racist most of the time. i am changing. i'm no longer identify with racist by claiming to be not racist. i'm no longer speaking to the mask of racial neutrality, and no longer manipulated by racist ideas to see racial groups as the problem. i no longer believed black person can't be racist. i no longer no longer policing my every action around an imagined white or black judge trying to convince right ã white people against my equal humanity. trying to convince black people that i'm representing the race well. i no longer care about how the actions of other black individuals reflect on me since none of us are race

representatives. nor is any individual responsible for someone else's racist ideas. and i have come to see that the movement from racist to antiracist is always ongoing. it requires understanding and snubbing racism based on biology ethnicity, body, culture behavior color space in class. and beyond that it means standing ready to fight at racism's intersection with other big trees. this book is ultimately about the basic struggle we are all in. the struggle to be fully human and to see that others are fully human. i share my own journey of being raised in the dueling racial consciousness of the reagan era black middle class and right turning onto the 10 lane highway of anti-black racism a high rate mysteriously free of

police and free gas and veering off onto the two-lane highway of antiwhite racism where gas is rare and police are everywhere before finding and turning down the unlit dirt road of antiracism. after taking this grueling journey to the dirt road of antiracism, humanity can come up on the clearing of a potential future and antiracist world you know it's in perfect beauty. it can become real if we focused on power instead of people. if we focus on changing policy instead of groups of people. it's possible if we can overcome our cynicism about the permanence of racism. we know how to be racist. we know how to pretend to be not racist. now let's know how to be antiracist. [applause]

>> i have some questions. [laughter] we got two minutes. here's one question. i like at the end of the prologue how you have movement in it. you are moving, physically moving at all see you start with like a panorama going from top to bottom and i wonder if there was some symbolism in movement connected to racism and maybe how it and more fastidious. i'm throwing that out. >> that is so good. >> that's a great question. is this on? when i was trying to do was, you do this beautifully in your work, think about economy and the power of what language and

what kind of structure could do for the work itself. in thinking about movement in a vigorous way in this work. in thinking literally about physical movement through time and looking about the past and the present. in thinking about the complexity of leaving a place you feel tethered to and coming back to it over and over, the aggression of that. i'm thinking about migrations, forced displacements, and i'm thinking also about how little we learn when we helicopter ourselves over a group of people and i really wanted to make a point about how much is missed when you are that high up but also recognizing that that distance is perspective too and told us many things but

to list my brother carl who was evidently lovable is a big thing to us and that somehow in the course of the narrative what that allows me to do is just write about people. they don't have to stand in for a kind of idea of who black people are in the world. they can move as characters. all those things. >> i'm trying to think about this in reference to my book because what i think of movement if there is a particular word that epitomizes african-american history it might be movement. whether we are talking about social movement against slavery or jim crow or mass incarceration or the movement out of the clutches of plantations or jim crow. my head was there but to answer your question, for me the book

is largely chronicles my conceptual movement. i thought of i wanted to showcase and chronicle that to sort of provide a guide for people. early on we were trying to figure out how we were going to write this. i easily could have given more of a top-down lecture, this is what you need to do in america to be antiracist. but we decided to be much more compelling if i shared my own personal journey. succumb to the ideas that i hold today because as i sort of narrated another time in my life i was on the other end of the spectrum. >> this happens in survival mass. because you are charting a history but then within that history there are all these wonderful what i call

tangential digressions could you talk about that? >> i was prepared to ask another question. i think movement to me symbolizes could symbolize a kind of growth in a different kind of perspective and i was really interested in the way that things that seem like in spaces to me actually when i applied a different perspective to them like how much it changed and even think you took over a decade to write ãbit took me seven years to write this book. so how much you even change from first sentence to last edit in a book is hopefully a kind of growth. i got another one for y'all. >> then we are going to keep asking him questions. [laughter] antiracist is a term and i think it's a very fitting term. imagine how the place where you live had a former name and now

it is a unit named. i was thinking about that the greek name is destiny. and how this is almost like a reclamation giving place a name and then also you giving this terminology to something that existed but that was it. now it's like you claim the power over it. i wondered if you thought about that. ? >> naming is may be for me the most powerful force in the world. which is why i always try to call names, always. even in my own life. to call the names of places as they used to be or as i have connected to them really is a taking back because the other thing that i found in the course of doing research is that for instance my mother would call a place where it was called in 1942 and it never

changed for her. it sort of triggered for her a sensual feeling the kind of relationship so that she wasn't always morning a loss of something because she was still tethered name wise and then also the idea of which also exists in your book in an interesting way the idea of name-calling that new orleans east is a place that is subject to name-calling. people will call it the land of nowhere. there are human beings living in the land of nowhere. so that is a kind of name-calling which i want to turn around and say but this is how i call it and how i see it. >> i think for me as it relates to the name antiracist but even more so the name racist we have in this country a scenario in

which everyone wants to name someone else racist. then they define racist which then gives them the power to name everyone else is a racist in a way that fundamentally and always exonerates them. [laughter] by definition a racist is anyone who is not me. the american definition of a racist. i'm saying this because americans swear commonly that they are not racist. you asked them, so you are sure you're not racist? i'm sure. that means you must know what a racist is. americans commonly can't define that term. so what that means to me is they are naming themselves in a way that that name has no meaning. when something doesn't have meaning, you can place it and attach it anywhere and no one

is going to have a problem with it. for me one of the things i'm trying to do with my work is give meaning back to the term racist. and give meaning to the term antiracist so that we can name people and name ideas and name policies what they truly are. >> that question about naming want to exalt the names of places and people in my work. i think about toni morrison saying like a home is your memory of a place and of those people in the place and in my work what i'm really trying to do is make you all know that northeast portland exists in the world and by that i mean that these people that grew up with me generation before me also exist in the world and to do that, there are places in my

first book even in this book where there is a paragraph or page of just the names of people that i've encountered. i remember being at the club and seeing a guy, i'd mentioned every basketball player i thought could really play in my neighborhood over some generations and the guy was mad at me like cornered me in the club like why wasn't i in there! so i think also people recognize the power and being named and feeling like someone. how much time? maybe audience questions. you see what happens when the writers are in control. what time is it over? [applause] >> i think questions, right? now it's time for the audience questions. there we go. please line up behind this gentleman if you have a question. >> this will be the last time writers are in charge. [laughter] >> name we need some direction yell. [laughter] the question has to

do with reparations. it's been brought up this afternoon and there was an audible sigh most from all the white folks. i don't know what space representation ãbi don't know what space reparations taken on over should be on the table. my question is your respect individual views on the subject of reparations? ..... [applause] >> i could elaborate. [laughter] one thing i will say is that i meet a lot of americans who claim that they are serious

about equities, that they're serious about racial equality, if you talk to them outside of conversations about race, they will talk about how critically important it is for someone in this society in order to thrive and have wealth and economic resources. and when you put those two things together and then you reflect on the fact that currently white people are ten times the median wealth as black people. the racial wealth gap is growing, forecasters estimate by 2053, between now and then white wealth median wealth is expected to grow and black median wealth is expected to redline at $0. the question that i have for those people who claim that they are committed to racial equity and justice and to also say

they're opposed to reparations, how do you eliminate or even begin to reduce the staggering racial wealth gap without reparations, i continuously ask people that question and they continuously give answers of a particular program that would not even begin to eliminate that gap which says to me that they're not serious about racial equity. there like so many americans it's popular and cool and they don't want to be racist but they're not serious of supporting policy proposals that are actually going to create equity in this country. >> they both said it but i want to say this is also a moment were talking about what were called and i feel around the issue of reparation is a moment where people mean something else when they talk about reparation.

all of these fears and emotional things come to stand in for very real and practical issues. there's a wonderful book called race craft by karen fields which you should all read. it's about the ways in which like the kind of witchcraft where people talk about race, they leave their logical senses and start to think sadly essentially. and i think this is quite frankly a very practical matter and if we thought about it that way, the way we just heard it presented it might change the conversation. >> i now realize this might be a word that is now one of those words which is integrated in schools, how important as we

continue to work on her own racism is it to find neighborhoods for our children to grow up in that are really integrated? >> also very quickly that i'm more concerned about integrating resources then i am integrating hobbies. and if we integrate resources then the bodies will come. and to me i should also add, this is something that the older

black folk live during the era of segregation, this is one of the things that they say quietly, there are things that are lost during that era and one thing the most speak about his black teachers and a ministry displayed and most recently a study came out that a series is a study that found that black students tend to do better with black teachers. particularly low-income lack students. they're more likely to finish high school and go to college and more likely to get better grades with black students. and then i realize in the late 1950s when there were the efforts to desegregate the schools, none other than marth n luther king jr. question that precisely because, so you're talking about white teachers who

view black children as intellectually inferior than being responsible for the intellect, is that what you're imagining and currently we have a system in which 80% of the teachers are white and the mortgagemajority are true studef color. >> a child cannot be taught by anyone who despises him. i think funding, were saying the thing thing, we don't necessarily need to talk so much about integrating the schools are funded equally and if there is a distribution of resources. i felt like it said all students were actually doing better by teachers of color so there you go. [applause] i am not sure how to phrase the

question but i read the book from the beginning and i thought it was a really useful book, economics and greed lead to behaviors which were racist and then i read the review of your second book and i have not read the book yet. my daughter-in-law has it for me. but i said it was contradictory in some way your first book, not having read the second book, i don't know in what way. >> with did you review? >> it may have been a poster review, i read the post from the d.c. area. i also read the article in the post, the long article on you. but i'm wondering you know what they're talking about and can we understand that? >> how can i say this, the reviewer who reviewed how to be an antiracist for the washington

post is notorious historically for basically going after black writers who are identifying the problem as racist policies and power and instead he wants us to consider the problem is black people. so obviously my book was rejecting his philosophy of the problem and so obviously he was going to review it in that way. so i think people were surprised that he was selected to review it, with his history. and i think that's the irony that you matched reviewers with books and sometimes it doesn't and sometimes it does match. that'll happen. >> i read that review in the post and in the times and those were great reviews. so it was somebody else who

reviewed. >> oh someone yells. >> you don't remember. >> thank you so much i think this opinion in miami we have a bit of a narrative that perhaps were not deep south and more diverse and multicultural and to deny our history of deep racism like the kkk having parades down the street to miami. and many things, when i hear about new orleans east, those are everywhere and within spitting distance of us is our own over town. overtown has an incredible history and it has the highway

they designated it and went through it and the aftermath. in these things in everyday county, i feel are not celebrated enough and it's awkward. in the prejudicial language against these neighborhoods and the overlooking, not just that but the other predominantly black neighborhood, i don't know if i really have a question per se. i'm so sorry. thank you. >> it is great that you mentioned that and it's something i'm very perceptive to and when i come to a place i try to hook up with the people who know the place like my great friend in the front row and

learn about these neighborhoods that aren't in the official narrative. and so what is interesting to me and maybe what i'll be obsessively writing about my whole life are the ways that narratives cemented culturally and in a place in this is the thing that happens all over the world but i think it's particularly american in a singular way, we have decided what the story is and then we gain a collective amnesia so the story never shifts or changes and then we have a very hard time reacting to any new story which is why i'm particularly interested in coal talk graffiti the things underneath the story, if you never on a map and no one can find you, how do you become

part of the story. it's all the visuals that you ever see of a place are about one particular theme or idea, the reductionist way of thinking about a place and we never build on the story and even with my own book, there are people i know who have taken trips to new orleans were trying on to engage with new orleans. so why is that is the question. i love that you brought that up because i think in every single city we should be thinking about this. this is connected to urban planning and connected to city planning and this is quite simply about what the view is from your window and how valuable that view is and who is deemed important.

>> if i say briefly -- [applause] you started out talking about people in miami as not part of the deep south, one of the more fascinating things malcolm x once said, he said stop talking about the south, if you're south of the canadian border yourself. [laughter] [applause] >> i guess my question would be the really think it is possible to be antiracist without being antidiscrimination of the whole, i guess because there are different types of people and i feel that this being antidiscrimination really helps

antiracist cause. >> you are absolutely correct, you can truly not be antiracist unless you're challenging reading much every form of bigotry. because every human being is not just a racial identity but the chances the racial identities have an ethnic identity, class identity, sexual orientation and chances are the racial identity is intersecting with other forms of bigotry to demean and denigrate them and explain their position on the lower end of a particular racial disparity. in order to be antiracist, you have to be feminist, you have to be striving to challenge capitalism, you have to be challenging homophobia, annable is on and so on and so forth. [applause]

>> hi thank you so much. all three of your written about times in your youth in your own past and i'm wondering how your effective almost times in your life may have evolved in the course of writing your books? >> i think now i see some of the mechanisms which allow that -- i felt like if i have not had some information and perspective when i was younger i could've made different decisions but there's so many things that went into why i limit to a certain place and what schooling i had in housing had et cetera. the short answer is, i hope that all of us have a different

perspective that we had when we were teenagers or youth. >> hello and thank you so much, i really appreciate hearing from you, my question is regarding the idea of being a racist is a person of color, i'm having difficulty understanding this because the way that i have been able to learn racism and has been through an understanding that racism is a systemic issue that has been made through power and prejudiced and historically people of color have not really helped, i'm struggling to understand how people of color can be racist, i do realize people of color can perpetuate systems of racism in any other

isms but i'm grappling with the idea of being a person of color and labeling oneself a racist were saying that one has been racist. >> thank you for asking, one of the things i try to do in the chapter that really interrogated this idea was to interrogate notions of power. but even before that, i think it's critical for us to recognize the difference when we say something like collectively black people are, let's say not being racist or i would argue being antiracist. and when you say every single individual black person is apparently antiracist at all times, because i would argue

there's no such thing as a not racist. so every single person of color at all times is either being racist or antiracist. so my book looks at the concept of individual, not necessarily collectively and then when i look at the issue of power in the individual level, there's three forms of power. the ultimate form of power is policymaking power, those who literally have the ability whether there are corporate executive or politician to shape policies that lead to equity or in equity and then the second level is policy managing power, you have people who carry out the policy that other people have made and it's critical for us to recognize that you have individuals who recognize policies are leading to injustice and inequities and figuring out ways to circumvent those policies, even though they

have been charged with carrying them out and then have other people who are like this is how i will get promoted by essentially executing these racist policies to the best of my ability. okay. i will do that. and we have to recognize the distinction between those two individuals and recognize they have the power to do both. and finally, every single individual has the power to resist. we have to think about why is it that certain people of color resist racism and other people of color spend their time resisting people of color. and for me, what i have found is people of color who think that people of color are the problem and spend their lives going after other people of color it's because they hold the same

antiblack, racist ideas about people of color as white people do. they largely consume them but the effective it is for them to spend their time not resisting racism. and finally, i think it's critical for us, i think when we say people of color have no power, we have to recognize what we are saying. where essentially same people of color are slaves. and i'm distinguishing between slaves and enslaved people. because people who are enslaved were resisting their enslavement, you're talking about somebody was in slavery who is not resisting and people of color are not slaves and we say white people are all-powerful, were rendering white people. and last i checked white people were not gods. in one of the things that happen

through this notion that people of color do not have power it takes away our agency. it takes away our historic agency that we've used to resist white racism. and for me, thinking about it as the individual level, i want to challenge that and finally you did not mention this in people color do not benefit. but individually people of color do benefit and are telling is benefiting right now because these victims were black girls and black women. and for us to not recognize how you have black police officers who benefit from the fact that they shot and killed was black and latino as opposed to a white woman in minnesota. these are things we have to

recognize and my work -- then i'll shut up. [laughter] one of the things i want us to do is shift from perpetrator and victim. when we have a victim perspective, we are fundamentally focused, it does not matter who is doing this to a series of black girls, they have targeted these black girls and that is a racist. we are more focused on outcome as opposed to intense. the intent language has allowed so many racist in the last years to continuously pray on people of color and say that was not my intent. but if were focused on outcome it completely changes the dialogue. [applause] >> thank you so much.

thank you that was excellent. wonderful session. at this time i like to have another around of applause. [applause] these authors will be signing books directly outside of the session, please make your transition so we can bring in the next group. [inaudible conversations] >> hello.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> you are watching the tv on c-span2, this is live coverage of the annual miami book fair,

it shows on the campus of miami-dade college on north of miami, we will be live again tomorrow, one more author is coming up, she will be in conversation with jorge, you have probably seen her on msnbc. that is coming up still in about 15 minutes. in the meantime we want to try something different. we want to ask you what you're reading, we would like to hear from you, what you are reading so you can call in at (202)748-8200, if you leav liven the eastern, 227-48-8201 for those of you in the mountain at pacific time zone. plus you can text us your book selection, 202748, 8003, just include your first name and your city if you would and we are going to do this today and tomorrow. if you text in a little late or

send a something a little late, we can still use it tomorrow. but we heard from jt woods in louisville kentucky. he says i listen to falling books. who rules the world, how to read the constitution and why and the water dancer, a novel. all four of those authors have appeared on book tv at some point but we want to show you a little bit of kid whaley on how to read the constitution. >> one of the problems that is new constitutionally for this generation is social media, the internet, big data, technology. there is so much misinformation

coming up people constantly, there are deliberate lies and misstatements and i don't say that as a political standpoint, even the attorney general made legal misstatements and i don't know why, they were wrong. so i think one of the reasons to have the book is to have a baseline knowledge so people can decide for themselves, reading a language might put fair summaries of how this might work. for example the legislative branch people say can congress do that, this is a redo, this is extreme, congress has in order to legislate, congress has to be able to investigate. that is very, very clear. in the subpoena power is how they get to that, do they get the ability to get the information to legislate. this will be the core question

that historically has been worked out between the branches, i don't want to give any information to you, let's work out a deal, that will go to the court and i wrote a piece of this, a beautiful compelling dissent, justice kagan progressive -- the reason that they are on the bench for life and appointed because the framers did not to get reelected. that being said, one of the key takeaways is not black and white, they have different ways of interpreting old vague language and they differ on how to interpret the constitution and we will see that, my guess is the court to uphold congress.

>> one of the other things -- >> that's a little bit on how to read the constitution and why, the entire program can be watched on the website at booktv.org. a couple more text that we have received, i am reading juuling enders homework from right here in miami and janet in minneapolis says she is reading red salmon, scholars were on ukraine. both of those authors believe it or not including juuling enders have appeared a book to be so if you use the search function type into the enders book and you'll be able to see juuling anders. she has become the prolific author and written three or four books including children's books and they came out with a second on her life and career and this is about her hollywood years and appelbaum has appeared on c-span numerous times over the years, she is an expert on ukraine and

eastern europe so if you're interested in that you can watch her on booktv.org. donna mickelson, she says i just finished reading the siberian dilemma by martin cruz smith and starting a warning by an ominous. this past thursday we taped the journalist panel talking about the book a warning, here is a portion of it. >> you both covered white houses in the past, are they all chaotic? >> i think the level of chaos describes not only in this book but by others who cover the white house and who are watching this white house closely is not something that we seen in many white houses before, i've only seen two unwary resume, they are vastly different, the two of

them, it is true that any white house has a degree of chaos in as far as making decisions and things going on from foreign policy crises and domestic policy to the oil spills to who knows what at a moments notice and that creates a certain amount of chaos because of being at the epicenter but that is a different chaos from what this book describes in terms of what we've seen and how president trump governs and how he deals with the people around him. >> i would not use the word chaos, every white house has a crisis because things don't get to the white house unless their problem there is a crisis around any white house.

it takes up the intensity and crises seem to be versus other ones. but i will also say, things tend not to get resolved and things tend to blow up and were hyper- partisan, hyper polarized and deeply emotional timing and the national debate it's reflected in crated by the trump white house. and that is different and that's reflected well in this book to the extent that's what you see and that's what you get when you see the white house in action. >> an entire roundtable on a warning by an ominous from senior trump administration will air this evening at 10:00 p.m. eastern time after it airs you'll be able to watch it online at booktv.org. a reminder if you are reading something and want us to feature

a book tv, send us a text at (202)748-8003. caroline and raleigh north carolina, what are you reading? >> here in raleigh i have attended are independent bookstore, or north carolina poet jackie greene book club where were looking over the course of this year at james baldwin and we recently this month and this past week finished going to meet the man and his short story and were looking forward on starting to talk. >> thank you caroline. >> by the way we have covered several event at quail ridge books, we appreciate their willingness to have her camera crews in there and there is a new book out, james baldwin and

william f buckley with conversation of race and race issues in 1967. there is a brand-new book out about that event. i cannot think of the name off the hand but i'm sure producer will send evening. we have covered a book tv and again, to promote the website that her video archives are available and you can go to booktv.org and watch this entire program. next call is can in a rural illinois. >> first off i hope that mr. baldwin wipes the floor with mr. buckley, i'm sure that's what happened, hi meeting fentanyl inc. and it's a very well researched, the author

actually got to have a visit inside a pharmaceutical in a fracturing plant in china which is hard to arrange according to him which i'm sure that's true. it's a very large open a crisis and to be informed and having access to that is a wondrous thing, i don't think i'll read fiction again because it's hard work to be a good citizen and keeping informed and nonfiction is one of the best ways to do that and your show having it on book tv is one of the better ways to also arranging not.

>> thank you for calling in trade fentanyl inc. is another one would covered on book tv on "after words" program where we invite guest host in to interview best selling authors. again go to the website and search at the top, type in fentanyl inc. book and you'll be able to watch. >> i'm reading the hebrew, it's fantastic. and i'm reading el dorado the opening to the west. >> recovered his most recent book, good to hear that and we

discovered him recently, the new history of the west, we will do this again tomorrow you could text on social media and we will post those on our social media accounts and send them what you reading and sure that with audience. back to the final event of the miami book fair for today will be back live tomorrow. here's the final event, john. moving forward, the story of hope, and the promise of american conversation with mr. ramos. [inaudible conversations] good afternoon.

good afternoon, and welcome to the 36 annual miami book fair. were grateful for the college and the prize literary event, i am an attorney in the miami office of the global office and i'm volunteering with hundreds of other volunteers who helped make this all possible. were also so grateful for the support and sponsorship of partners like the foundation, royal caribbean, north america, the group foundation and many other sponsors. one of my favorite things to do when i host this is to give a special thank you and shout out to the friends. are any of the friends in the audience today? [applause] hello and thank you for your support. >> their activities for the friends takes place all year round, it's not just during the book fair.

please consider joining the friends and you can also follow on social media and sign up for the newsletter. the friends will be building by establishing new programs for youth and emerging artists and writers. in the months that come your way here mont much about that. this session will go on for about 45 minutes and you also have an opportunity to have questions and answers with the author. the author will be autographing books outside. it is now my pleasure to introduce a dear friend of mine and a fellow attorney marlon hill. [cheering] [applause] marlon hill is a longtime friend and he has been volunteering at the fair for many years as well. i do introduce you who will go ahead and get the formal introduction of the author today. >> thank you.

>> good afternoon miami. good evening. imagine that this is going to be an asian american living in. can you imagine that? we are here in welcoming one of her favorite tv analyst on msnbc she is a daughter of the beautiful country. any agency? >> she is also the political director for the move.org. [applause] she has worked on many local campaigns, statewide campaigns and national campaigns. she has written this delectable

memoir of her personal, professional and political life. please join me in giving a warm welcome to karine jean perry an. [applause] >> hi, everybody. thank you for coming hi, i got to give her some love. [applause] [speaking in foreign language]

>> what do they call you, what is your nickname. in your first name is pronounc pronounced. >> karine. >> karine. >> my first question for you how does your patient us -- >> thank you so much. i'm so sorry, thank you for doing this. thank you thank you. i have to do this because i've known him for a very long time. he is a wonderful is a wonderful support fo support for barack obama. back in 2008 and now you're doing your own thing and just want to make sure i honored you as well.

>> thank you, sorry you cannot be here but it's an honor to be here, i wanted to ask up front, what was it like the first time that you came across through customs into america. do you remember that? >> i was about five, i do not remember that it is interesting that you said that, i just wrote a piece for vogue and in the piece i wrote about being hopeful in a talk about one of the moments that is happened in the last three years that has broke my heart and there have been many moments that have been heart breaking but one of them was a separation of children at the border in a zero-tolerance policy which basically meant were going to separate children from their families and put babies in children and cages and

this led to awfulness and i remember when that happened, at least when it became known in the national media and 2018 of the summer of 2018, my heart broke because i thought about what would've help you to read, my parents came and we landed at jfk and i was about five years old and i thought to myself what would happen if they told my parents we are going to separate you from your daughter. your daughter is going to go here, you are going to go there and potentially i would become an orphan which is what is happening to tens of thousands of children right now who are orphaned under earning. i do not remember that moment, it is interesting you brought it up because i thought about what has happened recently and what

would happen to me at the young age if i was separated from my parents on purpose. >> your home with mom and dad, what to call mom and dad. >> mommy and poppy. >> take us inside your home in york. >> so i grew up in queens village to 12th street on jamaica avenue. [cheering] and i lived in a family house, my aunt and uncle live downstairs and we lived upstairs. and at the time you do not know there's a difference. you just do what you're told and that's very much in the haitian culture, haitian food and what you were and we lived very

humble and had very humble beginnings, my dad was a new york city cabdriver and my mom a home healthcare aid and work six to seven days a week and went to catholic, they did everything they could for me too go to catholic. >> did mom come home? >> there was night she spent and she had to sleep or her job and nights she did not and it was different. i grip in the 80s and the '90s and totally a different experience in new york. and it was tough it was hard, i did not retailers in third grade and i always felt like the outsider in a talk about that in detail in my book and one of the things i wanted to make sure in the book was to tell an immigrant story because the last three years have been such ugliness in such intake immigrant rhetoric and policies as we talked about so i wanted to correct the record and tell a

story of hope, sadness, achievement, and what does it mean to be in this country. and i think i wanted to be really clear is that immigrants -- we feel very patriotic, this is our home, this is our country and we are a fabric of america and part of that fabric. >> what you see in america through the eyes of haiti, did it form your experience being at home with the haitian family, when was the first time you encountered to say there's a difference between the two? >> from the moment go. i was teased at school, it was made very clear that i was

different whether the way i looked, the way i dressed, the way i talked, very clear but i have to tell you it took me sometime to appreciate the haitian culture and the haitian history. that was something that i had to learn a self and that took probably in my early 20s when they realize how powerful our country is in our history and my ancestry and who i am and it took some time to be comfortable with all of that. and i think what is happening now is that i'm living in my truth and so i think once you living your truth in winter comfortable with who you are, i think the doors open and i think that is what is happening.

>> your dad a taxi driver in your mama healthcare worker, what were the lessons you got from them. >> my mom endurance, strength, she is one of the smartest people i know, and she does not have formal education but she is one of the brightest people i know, she is strategic, you know how haitian moms are, these are is a plan in noise a strategy, money being hidden here, there is a way something that when you're not thinking about, there are ten steps ahead, my dad kindness, one of the kindest people he'll ever meet. >> is he still driving? >> part-time. >> my parents still live check to check. it is -- if you were the two look from outside and look at my parents, you would say the american dream is with them. they did not get the american dream. many people don't. in my mom and my dad will tell you that i am there american

dream,. [applause] >> closer making dream for you. >> very specific, what were those dreams? >> there was always a plan, my parents, this is something that i talk about in my book that leads to ups and downs that occurred in my life but my parents were very much like immigrant families and they want you to do three things, they think three things is your success, lawyer, doctor, engineer, there's some other stuff but those are the three and in their mind you are one of those three and you will be successful and that will help

lift you and the rest of your family and for me was being a doctor. and it was connected to someone in her family who is a doctor and they very much respected -- she passed away recently. but that is how i grew, i grew up with hugo to be a doctor, they introduce you to everybody. when did you break that dream? >> i went to undergrad and undergrad and majored in premed and i was going to be a doctor and it just did not happen, you have to take the mcat and you realize it's a very big burden and you carry that burden for your family and your community and i actually went there something that i talk about very specifically and i had to do a mental health issue. and is something we do not talk about in our community and it was one of those moments that is incredibly depressing for me because i thought, i just

disappointed the people i love the most. and i felt like i broke the heart. and it was incredibly hard for me. and i had this thought in my mind that if i'm gone, then it will be better. if i'm not around, then it will be better for them. and i tried to take my life. thank goodness, thank god i am still here clearly i'm talking to all of you. but, i do want to say something about the book before we move too far in, the book is a memoir in the memoir piece is very raw and honest and authentic. i wrote it that way because i wanted to connect with people and i want people to feel something when they read that

story and i wanted for anyone who is having a hard time and felt like they would never make it or they cannot make it to look at me, someone who has worked for the first black president, who worked in the white house and made it through zone tv regularly to look at me and think if she was able to do it then i can do it. and i think there's a misconception like she must have a great wonderful life and it's not, it is hard, it was very, very hard. so i write that part because i wanted to at least, if i can change one person's life that the book has really done its work. in the other part of it is a call to action, to get politically involved, don't sit back, we need your voice and we need everybody's voice and had to get involved especially in this time. but it's also connected because i would not be on tv and would not have worked in the white

house if i did not have the experience that i had growing up. all of that has made me the person that i am today. so yes it is a sad part of my story but it made me who i am today. >> what was your support system and getting through that? >> i did not have. that story that i just told you about where he tried to take my life, my mom does not know that story, my parents did not know that story. my sister knew that story and she's the one who found me. and we never talked about it. after i decided that being a doctor was not going to be my thing i took some time off and i went to columbia to get my masters degree. it was at columbia when i got my masters degree and i was out of the home and living on my own and i started to go see a therapist. that is what help me because when i was in graduate school i was having anxiety attacks

because i hadn't dealt with the pain from prior. so that was the time, the moment that i was able to dig deep and ask for help. growing up in my community you don't talk about your secrets. you don't talk about your business, you don't go to therapy and so i wanted to break that. >> we are so glad you are still here with us. [applause] >> what was your first encounter with the political world. can you recall that? >> the political world was in grad school. and it was the first week of september 11. it was clearly hard and heartbreaking. it was something that many of

us, just speaking for myself i feel like i lived in a bubble and when that happened you are awaken very quickly especially, we lost more than 3000 souls and lives in new york city alone and so that was an awakening and i went to the program and the international school of public affairs which had other -- my peers were from all over the world and you're opened up to us going on outside the country and you meet people who are going through their own hardships, whether there's a civil war in their home in the coming here to get a better education or whatever is going on and that they are trying to do at the school and then the second thing that happened is i went to haiti for the first time in 2003 which

was also a mind opening experience and so those two things led me too a new path from where i am today and the fact that the has led me too this moment and the reason i say this, when i come back from haiti i wanted to make a difference, what can i do, amendment one was david who is the first african-american mayor in new york city and he was at that point and still now teaching and i had amazing professor, the fiery thomist who really push women and young women to get involved in politics and they suggested you to get into politics. and i thought, okay, that's interesting. >> what was your first job, working in new york city council

for a council member, i work for to council members and that was my first experience during a local politics which is very important, it's very important, get involved in a way to make a change, not just federal government in the white house, you can do a lot of changing people's life on the local level and that's what i did. >> what was your first encounter being a black woman in america. >> that question is so interesting because the conversation i was having recently and i've been all over the country from this book to her and at one point i was in a different city every day for ten days straight and there was a conversation that i was having about being a black woman in america and i think there are things that black women take on on a daily basis that have been

almost part of our dna that we don't even think about, they are things that we have to deal with and we don't even realize or we don't have time to realize that this is not okay. because we are just trying to survive. and so i think about that question and i think that we all, just everyday probably as young as we can remember, there is something that reminds us that we are black, we are a woman and sometimes we are not accepted. and i think that is why is something part of the day today that i personally have to deal with and sometimes you don't even realize, micro- aggression, it is like a happened and you just have to deal with it.

>> he dedicated this book for folks who have ever been told no, and was the first time someone ever told you know, why did you dedicate the book -- >> the dedication was probably one of the most important things to me in this book. and i think it goes something like a dedicated this book to anybody who's ever been told no and i hope this book inspires you and motivates you. and when i was thinking about the dedication i thought i would dedicate it to my mom and my daughter and the women in my life and then i thought about the book and the main ingredient and what the book encompasses. and i thought no i want to dedicate it to folks who have been told no. and very similar to what i was saying earlier that this book, if you have been told no, i hope that you can read this book and no you can get to the other side . . .

the reason that i went to work or him what he had said look, the chief of staff is going to be leaving in about a year. come work for me. you will see how i work in that job is yours. when we got, by the way the chief of staff was his fiancée. they got married. i was in their wedding, a whole nother story. as a staffer you are a bridesmaid in your bosses

wedding unexpectedly last-minute bridesmaid but anyway they got married and i remember this moment very vividly. they got married in every in this campaign so i helped him get reelected. i was campaign manager and i remember we were walking around the block and he says to me i'm going to give the job to somebody else. he gave it to a man who was older than me and probably had 15 years more experience than i did. i remember crying and i remember thinking i worked so hard. i remember thinking -- iran your campaign and help you get reelected and i'm not getting the job? at that moment i said to myself i'm leaving and i took a leap of faith and i said i wanted in national politics. i looked through my rolodex, my phone contacts and started having coffee with people and i

was like i was like have to like it to washington d.c. because i want to do national politics and i want to eventually work for the white house. >> who answered the phone? >> so many people. there were local constituents in new york that were really well-known, people who have been around the political atmosphere for while who had contacts in d.c.. i ended up working for a campaign called warmer watch. see mickey left on good terms? >> i mean it's not that i left on bad terms that they knew i left because i didn't get the job. it's not like i everything up. it was just one of those things that i decided i needed to leave. wasn't bad terms but i was disappointed. they tried to get me back a couple of years later at the point i had worked on president obama's campaign. i'm not coming back. i remember what?

know. anyway that was the last snowe i could have initiated. [applause] i don't know if i would have gone to washington d.c. and worked on the presidential campaign and ended up working for obama in chicago. i don't know what my trajectory would have been. i could have been happy as the chief of staff for another year or two and it was the best no and it pushed me. >> how did you know which campaign to work for and which campaigns not to? >> it was that moment when i moved to d.c.. i worked for warm watch for a year that i haven't choice of multiple campaigns but i interviewed for edwards and i interviewed for obama and at the time i decided to work for edwards because the work that i

was doing seemed more connected to what he was doing. he was in labor guy ended poverty work and i was one of those people that thought nobody is ready for a black male president. we are ready as a country. that's what i thought. marlon did not think that. he was smart so i went to work for edwards and it was a good experience. i worked there for a year and then i went to north carolina chapel hill and worked on the headquarters. that experience and the connections that i got from that campaign led me to the obama campaign because they were somebody that i worked with on the edwards campaign. she went to the obama campaign and called me and said i'm working, we are getting ready for the general election campaign. we want you to come here and do what you did for edwards for

obama. i did that so this is part of having good relationships, making sure that you stay connected to people and that's how i got the job. >> it was her first time in the oval office. >> there's nothing like it. seriously, i mean i read about this in my introduction where i talk about walking through the gates of the white house and you know this black girl haitian-american, immigrant. like i was told i had no business doing this and here i am walking through the gates of the white house going into the white house with the whole entire haitian community i felt was with me. [applause]

and you walk in and you think i'm representing not just the president, i'm representing my community, and representing the country. it is one of the proudest, proudest moments. you walk into the oval office and i mean it's just, there is nothing like it. it is one of the proudest moments that i have that i carry with me. >> would the do learn about the office of the presidency during that period? not the person, the president but the office. >> you learned the enormous responsibility that the office has. you are president, commander-in-chief. you are hoping to set policies. you are hoping to change minds and change heart and make a big change for so many people. people are relying on you.

they come to you. they tell you their problems, their personal problems. they think you are going to change the trajectory of your lives. it is a big, big responsibility for everyone that's working there. >> there's a moment in the book and i haven't had the chance to read the entire book but hopefully everyone will get their copy. december of 2012, do you remember that day? it happened in america when you were in the oval office during sandy hook. >> i was not at the white house in 2014. >> the shooting happened -- >> yeah the shooting happened and i'm trying to think where i was but i was not at the white house at that point.

i was on the campaign side and the campaign was done. i think back on the press conference that barack obama held and you are talking about 20 little kids, five, six years old, seven, murdered and you see the humanity in what it means to be president. you see the heart of what it means to be president. you see the realities of it because there's a part and i'm thinking about what he says were even as president he felt that there was nothing he could do. i think that's the heartbreak.

he has done everything he could do but it was almost out of his hands because congress needed to act and you know i have a 5-year-old right now. she went through a drill recently. she just started kindergarten and that broke my heart because we didn't have to go through that. >> we'll be taking some questions for folks who want to ask you questions so you can get yourself prepared. in 2020 what are we fighting for now? he spoke about that in the book about thinking about her. in 2020 what are we really fighting for? >> we are fighting for the people of this country. [applause] >> we are fighting for the soul of the country and there will be

candidates on multiple ballots. i won't put you on the spot but what are you looking for as a candidate in the context of 2020? >> so 2020 is so tremendously important. i know people say this all the time like this is the race that's really going to matter. you hear that four years ago, eight years ago, two years ago but this is a. 2020 we have to make a decision on what direction this country is going in and it is imperative for us not just to vote but to get involved. that's going to be my goal this next less than a year now as to talk to people over and over and over again because there is a target on our backs and they say

this all the time and i'm going to say to you guys if you are not white males rich and straight there is a target on your back. it's been been made very clear these last few years. immigrant communities, if you're a woman, if you are, if you are latino, if you are black. transgender. there's a target on your back and if the last three years is not scared you just think about four more years. >> every election has a motivation. you know that, right? in 2020 what are you thinking the motivation needs to be in the way that you expect? >> let me get to the question about the candidate. the candidate whoever is the nominee is going to have to put together a movement. we will need a movement to win in 2020.

it is going to take everything that they have and we all have two win. they we are going to need to inspire young people, people of color, latin communities, everybody and create that coalition that is needed to win period and if they cannot motivate people than we are in trouble. it is not going to be easy. and so even though in 2018 we saw some gains and in 2018 we saw some gains. weeks ago we saw some gains. it's going to take that plus 10 to get out. here's what i ask everyone in this room. yes i want you to vote. clearly that's one of the things we do not do in this country is we don't vote. voter turnout is always

incredibly low so we need all of you to vote. that's number one. number two, i need you to be the voice on the message in your community. i need you to give a little bit more and a little bit more time. volunteer. get involved in your community if you don't do it already. i need you to get involved in your neighborhood. get involved in your community and get people out. register and get people out to vote. going to take all of us to do that. you are going to have to have a message. you will have to talk to that person that you know that stayed home and 2016 and didn't come out to vote for whatever reason. they came out in 2012 for obama. 4.4 million people that voted did not vote in 2016. we lost 4.4 million people who decided for whatever reason they were going to vote. we can't let that happen.

>> we will leave it right there. some questions for the audience. you want to step up to the mic? >> the mic mike is right there. >> introduce yourself and a quick question. so there my name is michael russell and i'm one of the moveon.org organizers here in miami. >> thank you. thank you for what you do. [applause] >> thank you. karine i'm very concerned when i hear the president say if you try to remove me there will be a civil war and you have even heard a congressman from texas who said the same thing on the floor of the house. i'm so concerned that this country may descend into civil war. no country has lasted forever. rome had moral decay and i think we are are watching that happen to the united states and i'd

like to know what you think about that and lastly what national protests are we going to get ready for when this moves to the senate for trial to make these republicans do the right thing? [applause] >> thank you. and thank you for what you do. we need more like you all over the country. we are a young democracy and i think people forget that. and when you have a president day in and day out stepping on the constitution never read the constitution and couldn't care less about the constitution and stepping or -- i'm our democracy you have to worry if we are a country that's going to hold. when i think about civil war that something we should be concerned about he could see said this. he tweets about it. i think we talk about motivation those are the things we have to

take him at his word. he has kept his word on many bad things. if that doesn't motivate you to get involved i don't know what is. our democracy is at stake. if he gets reelected -- when he went to ukraine the president of ukraine asked him to interfere in our elections we have free and fair elections, the cornerstone of our democracy. it's the cornerstone of our democracy. you are asking a foreign government interference something that supporters don't allow democracy. that's something that should resonate with folks and get us moving. this is the commander-in-chief who now is a national security risk.

that is how you got to think about what we are up against. as far as protests, move on is holding protests and we will be having protests in the next couple of weeks. we are going to be very vocal and asked people to come out and come and stand with us. people ask me all the time why don't we have a million people in the streets and i'm thinking people have to come out and let their voices be heard. you can't force people to come out. those are the things you have to think about, what is at stake. what is at stake? are lives are at stake. our democracy is at stake. our freedom is at stake. >> what is the nomination process for the democratic nominee being mindful of jeopardizing the coalition that

you spoke about that motivated turnout? >> they have to make sure they talk to black women in particular. we have been there. 98% of black women came out to vote for alabama but 94 or 95% came out or hillary clinton the largest voting population for hillary clinton. you cannot forget us. you cannot forget us. you've got to make sure you get those young people out. that's going to be really hard. you've got to get young people out there that's a key part of the coalition. those are the things i think. in the book you speak a little bit about journalism and misinformation. >> in the book come in the back of the book i lay out award-winning journalists reporters who were out there who are giving, who are fighting and

trying to get the truth out there making sure that people are well-informed, well-educated on what's happening and that is one of the major issues and a misinformation campaign that's out there that's coming from foreign countries and coming from the president himself and it is also dividing our country. it is a very scary time right now and you've got to make sure that you have the right information. you are armed. >> welcome to miami. >> thank you. >> k. median group marketing right here in south florida. i heard a comment about who

should we choose? a will move up to that point where we want to vote for them and i want to say one thing to the person who made that comment is trust the process and whoever becomes the nominee lets all get behind them. >> 100% correct. [applause] >> even if you miss the bus, get behind that us. >> haitian americans, how do you speak to the young man who are doing the little things to get in trouble to take away their rights? not just them but their family members and safeguarding them and getting them involved in the process?

>> i had the opportunity recently when i was in d.c. the first week of my book came out to talk a bunch of young amazing kids who were at a local high school in d.c. and it was a diverse group of kids. there's a program that this high school has where they invite authors to come talk to students and really engage with them and have real conversations with them. i read a passage from my book and they told me, they said it's going to be really hard to connect with them. they are twelfth-graders. they have senior ida said they are ready to go. they don't have a lot of hope that we really want you to try to connect with them. i can't remember the passage that i read a passage about one

of my top times in high school. and i think because i was trying to connect and be authentic i connected with them. for 45 minutes we talked about all of the pain that they were going through. it lumia away. they shared what they were going through at home. they shared about what they were going through on the streets. they shared how some of them were depressed. they shared about not feeling like they have, they can continue their life. just by reaching out to them and being there and talking about my story and talking about the book they felt just a little bit better. i ended up 45 minutes of the conversation i ended up being there for two hours.

their teachers and their administrators were amazing. it's a lot of work. you ask me what to do and i thought i gave my time for two or three hours and it made a difference. connecting with them because if you don't try to authentically connect with them we are going to lose them. we are going to lose these young people who have hopes and dreams for themselves. it's not big. they don't want to be a dr. orin engineer. they are just trying to survive and just find some happiness. so i just think about just having to be able to reach them which is not easy but it takes time and you have to do it authentically. >> you have to put in the work. >> for the folks who are frustrated and thinking about

passing on 2020. spinning please tell. >> what is revised to them to get motivated? >> their people to him then too upset to me i did not vote in 2016 and i looked at them and i said, i'm like du take any responsibility for what we have right now? here's the thing. hillary clinton won the popular vote which is great. that's wonderful. we want to win the popular vote but she lost the electoral college. 217 electoral college votes that we need to win and we didn't. three states michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin. one of the things that happened in wisconsin, 200,000 people could not vote because of voter

suppression. there's a lot riding against us in this for 2020. they are ideologues across the country who will make it very difficult for the coalition to go out and vote. it's not going to be easy. you talked about the disinformation campaign and now he's president. he could care less about making sure russia and other countries don't interfere. it's going to be harder than it was in 2016. we have got to get to 270. we have got to win and we could do it because we elect barack obama twice because of 2270. we have got to get people out to vote. we cannot sit this out. [applause] we cannot sit this out. i can't say it enough. we cannot sit this out. we have to hold on to our

democracy. we have to hold onto our freedom and we have to stand for each and every one of us. if they come for one of those that come for all of us. you've got to stand with your brothers and sisters in this fight and you've got to vote in you've got to bring people with you. the future of this country is at stake. there is a choice in november. simple. whoever is the nominee it's about the choice. what do you want to take this country and? period. >> final question for karine. what is the next big thing that you are not going to say no to. >> sleep. sleep. i'm in this fight through november. i am in this fight. i'm in this fight and i'm going to do everything that i can to make sure we win in november.

i will do whatever it takes. that is the fight. that's the fight that i'm all in non-. i'm doing it for my daughter. i'm doing it for everybody else's kids. i'm doing it for future. this is the thing that i'm most passionate about and everything else will come later. >> ladies and gentlemen karine jean-pierre. [applause] >> thank you everybody. thank you for coming. thank you. thank you. >> thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

that wraps up our live coverage of the first day of the miami book fair. you can tune in tomorrow for more beginning at 10:30 a.m. eastern time. now if you missed any of the programs we aired today you can watch them by visiting our web site booktv.org and searching miami book fair.

.. i'm director of social cultural and constitutional studies here at ai and it's my great pleasure to welcome our friend rich lowry to discuss important new book "the case for nationalism" reaches the editor of national review the flagship magazine of american conservativism for decades. he's edited it since 1997, rich is alsa