[inaudible conversation] >> now in cspan2 tb, more television for your serious readers. echoing sounds. >> good afternoon everyone, thank you. [laughter] i don't always like to help people out in the very beginning but right now is the great great granddaughter, and her husband. [applause] who very special to have them. welcome everyone to the warren museum him. maybe you have been here before but is this everyone's first time here. oh well, welcome. welcome to the bottom family. we are delighted to have you on

this beautiful day in downtown bridgeport connecticut. it is in fact, barnum news last museum. as we all know he started museum in 1942, this was his last gift not just to the city of bridgeport, really to the global community that we serve. many of you are very familiar with the museum in 2010, we were at a tornado. that's the kind of stuff that happens to barnum. the year after that it was hurricane - i also want to give a huge shadow to the state of connecticut in the delegation who really supported $72 million bonding appropriation because were just about to embark on a major reese doric rehab of that gorgeous barnum bailey building from 1993. thank you. [applause] are congressman has also really been working very

hard with us to get to the barn building in the national register of historic places. i feel like i'm on the register this. but we are in the process of being reviewed to become a national historic landmark and that, there's only about 2500 in this country that is a significant thing. we've been working on that for your a long time. and its reasons, why we are here today. we are still talking about pt bar barnum. he is still relevant in our lives today. robert most of us here to talk about the fact that you can condition like him in one way. it is something to be looked at and examined and re-examined and brought into modern culture. and the father of the entertainment industry. he is the fellow that philanthropist the doer of good deeds many times.

enough about me, thank you all who much for your coming to the varna museum. please support us we do programming all year. the music and it is open during the week couple of days and even during the big historic project that is going to be happening soon but with no further ado, and we just introduce you to bob wesson. bob has been the editor of the american scholar news involvement in 2004, which won the national award for the best feature story in may of 2006. an additional met national commentary in 2012 is the editor of the 35 million circulation of aa are bulletin of which now i am a member. and he is also the editor of the magazine of the national trust for your historic preservation. he won the national magazine award for your general elections in 1998 and i want to thank you for your that because this national trust coming into this field. i am accredited to you.

also in founding literary editor of civilized nation for the magazine of the library of congress in 1994 and a 95, during the time there, the magazine received the award of general excellence. and before civilization he did a few little things, he was the editor and columnist for your u.s. day for your 11 years. and at the washingtons vault boats for your six years. he holds a ba in english, washington and the university where he was inducted by data kappa and and in english from the university of virginia. you can call the university of virginia, and a writing program the john hopkins university, george mason university as well as the american university. and is the author of a narrative on the adventure of clients king and matthew brady, portrait of a nation but today, we're here to celebrate his new book, published by simon & schuster, we are honored to have bubbles and speak today on barnum and

american life. welcome bob. [applause]. bob: i have who many microphones going on here. now this one is on two. thank you kathy for your that lovely introduction. and thank you for your everything you do for the varna museum. thank you for your having me here at the barnum museum. and thank you for your everything that you and the people work with you have done to help me in writing this book. i also want to thank adrian

st. pierre, and who really, just throughout the years i was working on the book. they offered me encouragement, lots of good information and home a lot with photographs in the book later on. i'm also really pleased to be able to tell you the great barnum scholar at this time or any time, arthur saxton is here in the front row here. [applause] arthur could have been forgiven for your not being fully welcome of someone running letter and said i would like to write a biography of barnum.

he might've said, will i did that. [laughter] and did it free app not free app but very well. but another person was written very well about barnum, trust me when i was sitting out and said well, i say barnum is someone who deserves a new book every generation. and off of it wasn't arthur is that, i say he believed it. because he has just been who warranted and his health and his encouragement is good humor. helping me to find things i didn't know i was looking for your. i probably could've written a book that went out author but it would not have been nearly as good of a book and in might've taken me years longer who thank you arthur. arthur never blushes who we don't have to worry about that.

i'm in this funny position of i don't know how many people in the world who know about barnum than i do it at this. maybe a lot. but i do know for your sure that three people who know a lot more about barnum that i do or here in this audience. it is mildly intimidating to be standing before you. it was such a great pleasure to work in this book not only because of these three people and others who were very helpful to me but just because of barnum himself. he's just a wonderful character to write a book about. a numbing character in the sense of a character in a normal see. the person of many parts. a person who the city had his dark side as well this is bright side. someone who never failed to engage me intellectually.

an emotionally i was just drone to his wit, his verbal skill. he remarkably, skills as a speaker and writer. who knows where they came from but if you want evidence that certain gifts are innate and nothing see these work learned skills were jiggly they may have been self-taught but he just had something in that mode that was unusual. this is partly to see for your now barnum was a wonderful character was a wonderful man this is something that will get to in a few minutes and is part of what made working on this book who interesting.

most of you know and i say a lot of you go around here no that the brief frontline of barnum news life. you probably know that he was born 22.3 miles from here. lisa according to google this morning. (and that village of bethel. and that he early on busied himself with a lot of sort of smaller the larger entrepreneurial activities. i thought i would just read a great one paragraph from the book where i can talk about a little bit about the arc of history history. his note today primarily for your his connection to the circuit. but that came early in the last

quarter of his life. this possible occupation before that, occupations were running the american museum. being the one behind the witty and talented tom thumb the angelic swedish soprano, jenni lynn. who created sensation in america in the early 1850s. and dozens of other people and ask him traveling shows. what less well known today as he is also a best-selling author. an inspirational lecture on tiverton on success in business. and ended in life, and real estate developer and builder and a banker and a state legislator. the mayor of the city of bridgeport. near where he lived knows to this adult life, he was even a candidate for your congress. it is a bare knuckle contest joe cousin also named barnum. in all of these endeavors, he was a promoter and self promoter

that went out peers. relentless advertiser and unfailingly imaginative dr. of events for your exhibits to draw the interest off and feverish interest of potential patrons. i'm going to raid one of the paragraph in a preliminary way. just sort of get you situated. with barnum. something to later. philosophy insects success to the relationship to his audience that he related to his showmanship. the relationship centered that was most associated with barnum in his lifetime. humbug. as he himself wrote in this 1865 book, the humbug news of the world. webster's definition is, to deceive. to impose upon. today include the words hoax, fraud, imposture, want nonsense,

trick. his book is the survey of such practices. intensity said to save the rising generation from being bamboozled by the unscrupulous. whether in a religion or business of politics, medicine or science. but for your barnum, nano forms of humbug were hurtful. sometimes, very could be harmless even join us. he claimed that for your him, the generally accepted definition of humbug focused on this benign writing. when he defined as glittering appearances and novel expedients, which is suddenly arrest public attention. and attract the public eye in the year. in other words, what he did. this matter was that the person who attracted patrons in this way, but then foolishly failed to give them a full equivalent for the her name, cannot get a second chance for your customers who are properly denouncing a swindler.

in an imposter and a cheat. i say this is really, the whole idea humbug is his idea of humbug. is one of the things that distinguishes him from his reputation. as you begin to look at him in more depth. i will get to that in a second. but i want to tell you since the book has been published a few surprising things, this method book a few things have been a not happen to me before it will begin. in addition to having all here and cspan2 here. i was astonished to see the mike publisher made an incredibly beautiful book. [laughter] and i can see this because i had nothing to do with it. i say it an undercover and

wonderful insight design and i seem to be la here forgive me. and the or as the 16 page color insert, which paid urine and he'll live ben toole from down the road help me populate and it also has something has dickel ditches, i don't know if you know those are but in the book, it's often cut straight on the edge and if it's cut rough on the edge is called tickled edges. enemy it is something very elegant. and wonderful and i failed my editor early on. no one really want to book with tackled edges. [laughter] and he said, all we can do that. and it i thought know it would never happen. a delay with the fox. i didn't say it would happen. initial this to my wife was sitting right here martha and i

said, you know i told them that if always wanted tackled edges and she said will, i've never even heard that word. in a 45 years of marriage. and who my response to that is that every marriage that is must have its secrets. [laughter] if my secret was tackled edges. and another wonderful thing that happened, i'll just mention briefly and have right here, the spot with kcbs news and it is decided to do a piece about barnum about the book barnum in the museum and café side this wonderful experience is the small editor of a small magazine who it uses a lot of time studying at home. it does spend a lot of time in front of national tv camera who that was something else.

and in the third thing is, new yorker of all places and its wisdom, did a major piece of the book. they gave four pages by one of its most prominent writers he'll live kolbert who won the prize for your her book, extension. and this was utterly unexpected and most of all by my publisher. and where my friends and refers to me is four pages because about four pages on the new york edge. [laughter] who actually that was deeply exciting and something very happy other couldn't help noticing, as an editor and writer and someone who has tried to be paying attention to the nuances of language that she seemed to be implying that he it's been six years writing a

book about barnum. in the air trump and others things going on in the present day. and i made the connection or any connections at all. but i was somehow leaving in this complete bubble. who this raised for the puzzle about the review which is how did this rather dimwitted person mini me, ministering to book for your what it's worth. did i mention four pages in the new yorker. [laughter] also four pages i state with very little attribution two. my book. who anyway, there is that. some of that could be forgiven but i felt there was a moma interview where she really tried to sort of twist nine. that she took her language and honed it to a fine.

the fact there is a sentence right in the middle of the review that is only three words. the words are: willfully admires barnum. this was meant as a great trick critique i say. and it won me as much he might've thought it would. i do admire barnum. i say there is who much to admire about him. as i said earlier, one of the things that made him interesting for your me to write about him, was that he was not continuously and admirable. who as i went through his life, i found myself constantly looking at things in the context of his own time, is this

something that he did or display he was able to bring himself to make because this was general accepted at the time. i also tried to look at him as oh man to greg as a human being and see well quality is bad beyond the pale. and whenever century or millennium you live in. that's me give me a you the chance to be continuously be engaged intellectually. the one thing i try not to do, was to work from the assumption that with key perfection at any given moment. which i say is, an idea for your their due presentism that is out there very much in the culture

now. it's a very easy to dismiss people who do not represent everything that we in our great wisdom have achieved. one could easily poke holes into this notion of the presentism but anyway, that was something out that i didn't do. some of things it did admire about barnum, as his eagerness to make to make other people happy in his commitment to larger ideas temperance, eventually to evolution. in his commitment to make public entertainment safe families and children or just written a lot about that in a definitive way. that the stage in the early years of barnum involvement with that when he started the

american museum from lower broadway, had essentially a theater, lecture room because the reputation of the theater was who low that he didn't want to call it that. as i learn from arthur mothers, theaters theaters and those days were often places where prostitutes worked the balconies. and even in the expensive seats, there was drunkenness and rowdiness. who one of the things that barnum and others did, in that time period was to really commit themselves to moral entertainment but also to lack of drunkenness to creating an atmosphere where families can sit with them.

i also, as it was implied by being the mayor of bridgeport and many other things he did, he was truly >> minded. he was actually a philanthropist. they claim that it is it turns out, actually give her name. his philosophy early on was one what he called profitable philanthropy which is, if nothing else, should you is mastery of language to have come up with the phrase profitable philanthropy. and what he meant by that part was viewed in the room here, and look at seaside park, that was a large part or large chunk of property the barnum and others the gift to the city to create the mark. but he kept a chunk of it for

your himself who he built beautiful houses in the middle of a nice park with a great view. that is profitable philanthropy. he helped develop east bridgeport. they had a very generous scheme for your developing housing across the river. they held up every lot for your themselves. as the price of land over there increase, it is people put houses and stuff. their own holdings increase in value as well. but profitable philanthropy turned into real flip debate later in his life. and again a of her name to church. local hospitals come in bridgeport and to now the university, and other

universities. and i say the thing that sort of sold me on barnum a bit to the cons of his personality but, was this phenomenon of him becoming a better person throughout life. as i got to know him better and better, i was just who impressed with the idea that he was oh man who had a lot of success early in life. and i say how many people do you know who are very successful early in life, are not convinced that it is because of their perfection as a human being. the somehow they did everything right. and good things happen to them. barnum had had success in yet throughout his life evolved. his beliefs on race evolved in philanthropy and that quality of

kinda renewing himself, and becoming a better person, was another thing that really made me admire him. cons are not small. the racism, early on is despicable. you can justify to some degree, by the racism of the times but also people who are abolitionist from the day or declaration of independence came out and there are many people who were not racist. and who it's not something that you can dismiss. he did become an evolutionist himself. he did run or the connecticut legislature after the war

staying that one reason he ran was who that he could be revoked for the 13th amendment. he gave a speech favoring giving about two within freed black in connecticut. fearing the speech, you will not feel completely comfortable with the terms in which he said the fox deserve remote. but nonetheless, he did that. some of it is the humbug news room beyond the pale often only in many of you probably know the story of joyce f, who a slave woman, she was being promoted as being a 1601 years old. and then nurse native george washington is the baby.

even barnum became embarrassed by that. the part of his life live on. his treatment of his wife, certainly towards the middle and the end of the marriage was not acceptable say. part of it i say group out of this or came from a culture that is very much into practical notes into very rough humor. often pointed out when when barnum took tom thumb to meet queen victoria, everything read about it now, is what a wonderful impression that both men made on the royal family. but arthur, went and read victoria's diary for the day.

her journal and she was very troubled by the way barnum spoke to tom thumb. i suspect is partly because she didn't understand american humor. there was a lot in barnum news humor that was rough. a lot of it was directed towards his wife in ways and pretty hard to forgive. and it must be said the barnum was somebody who was unusually needy for your wealth and admiration. that is not a quality that i would particularly admire. who the question in the book and the question that came out of a lot of the reviews, is you know, was he admirable was a not

admirable how admirable was the and how justifiably was he. my admiration for your him. the basic thing is if barnum were in the situation he would see, gee there is the dispute here. the atlantic says one thing of the new yorkers is another. you must come and fight for your yourself or decide for your yourself by reading the book. this what i would do if i were barnum. i'm going to read to you a few short passages from the book. two of them have to do with things that happened nearby who that the movie appropriate. barnum was a sort of jeffersonian democrat, he was a member of the universals church,

even as young man, he was uncomfortable with the sword of energy and you could see of the brawl of religion. he believes very strongly in the separation of church and state. who strongly that the ripe old edge of 21, he founded a newspaper called the herald of freedom. and which he propounded this idea that church and state should be separated but he wasn't contended to use that redo that. he also wanted to attack the people who felt otherwise including his uncle. barnum managed to get himself

food for your libel several times in the short period of time he ran this paper. in one about a year after he started it resulted in a judge ruling that he could either pay hundred dollars for your having leveled to somebody or it's been two months in prison. joe. he decided in the her name to take goleta said. in years i was talking about that. i chose to go to present barnum wrote to gideon welles. editor of the harper times and later secretary of the navy. another secretary use. (and thinking that such a step would be the means of opening many eyes. idd continued because of the

trial, and the neighboring towns was very great. it will have grand effect. his purpose in writing welles was to tell him that another newspaper editor would be covering the matter at length. as with the herald of freedom of course and ask welles to make such remarks as justice to men. his ability to march has brought just his own paper but also the goodwill of others would to harbinger of things to come. it was the first clear example of this drawing attention to his belief that. in his memoirs, barnum writes that he was allowed to have his cell in the dendrite, gel. fitted out with wallpaper and carpet. which is surely a rarity in the landless of imprisonment. on jelly was allowed to continue to edit his newspaper and to write numbers of letter and i sent somebody present a feather seats actually burdensome.

his communications with ruby on his cell, also allowed him not only to stroke local newspaper coverage, but also to engineer what can only be called a local holiday to celebrate his release from jail. but a group called the committee on arrangements was formed. they met at the jail on the morning of his last day there. december 5th 1832. and with him, very room in the courthouse, where he had been tried and convicted. the crowd was who large the barnum news paper, reckoned it to 1500 souls. in a minute half that size it would've been a mess. if who large that those who not been in the building, formed a place for your him to pass through. once settled in there he was honored with a note composed in speech defending the freedom of this was called the nations. written ending claim by a prominent lecturer. he was himself the editor of the

new haven examiner. there following strike the symbol after a project crowd of several hundred gentlemen recalled, retreated to a nearby hotel upon jean nichols and enjoyed a sumptuous dinner of toast and speeches. in the 12th vault described him as that terror to beget entire is pretty young man just on the threshold of active of life. you neither will to burgeon or imprison rules and stop them. if this was not enough for your a cautious 22 -year-old who had not suffered it in the hands of the law, barnum stepped from the dennard hotel into a coach drone by six horse team. he did with him was coach was a small fan of musicians. playing patriotic tunes and a parade in his honor and good for your him to take the 3 miles home to bethel. who marshall carrying the stars & stripes led the rate fell by

40 people on horseback. and behind barnum news coach was a carriage carried the reverend. master of ceremonies. the president was a strategic followed by 60 more carriages of filled with local people. this impressive letter got underway, can it boomed on the village. several hundred more people who were gathered there gave barnum cheers. when the carriage reached bethel, the fan played softly home and three more cheers went up. barnum delighted. the day began in jail and ended and well orchestrated triumph. either barnum or anyone else ever certain who organized the many events that day. i chose the members of the committee of arrangements. barnum carefully did not give or take credit when he later described the fellow christian in his memoirs. it was that went out doubt it was in his interest to apply

that the day unfolded almost propelled by the enthusiasm most is neighbors for your his cause and the need. after all it run of the village and in many relatives there and thereby. it gone to church there and had quartet stores and who on a star there in heavily advertised has brought right now read a newspaper from there. democrats and universalists and others a lot is heated, we naturally wanted to support him. but the formal speeches did not occur on the spur of the moment, nor did bands the coaches arrived by chance. and even if the celebratory luncheon involved only dozens rather than hundreds of fishermen, prudential hotel would need parent warning to keep who many. the various tactics marred when masters became a successful showman, one was to know when to stay on in the wings and went to step in the foot live stickball. seems likely that in this case

he was in both places at once. others might've thought to sponsor an odor and engage in a chorus or plan a banquet or a parade. but these three cheers rather than three chairs twice. and mina forgotten that the canons altogether. but not barnum. beginning on december 5th 1832, more would always be more. keeping sympathetic newspaper editors close with will always be useful. commissioning songs and speeches, whenever enhancing occasion. and serious intentions with entertainment. sure to draw a crowd would continue to be a good strategy for your engaging the public. and as the no ird would never fail to be a calling card. seemingly small consequential details, like returning to the courtroom, where he was convicted or over laying it all

with patriotic field would never elude him. this day had all of the earmarks of a part in production. it was the day when his career was a show man began. i will read through one more. barnum detained as i said frequently interested abolition. you may be shocked to hear they are part of connecticut was in a hotbed of anti- unite and is in. and in barnum and build out there, i often on be half of the union cause. after the first battle of bull

run in july of 1861, synthesized the succession began to hold peace rallies. but these events quite like would often be flown above the stars & stripes. barnum news regent of connecticut was especially active in this land. . . . three months militia volunteers who had just returned from war. they had a number of other bridge porters also, a skeptical frame of mind. they were on the bus to a large data ring and they were present when his preacher was delivering his benediction. secured over his health.

filled with those soldiers hollering prounion chairs that display union banners. enough labor account written by william, a correspondent for the tribute and local divinity student, a future journalist. according to them, the soldiers went straight to the flagpole with peace flag and the word piece rate as well as an agent work flag. as the soldiers when of the hickory pole and tore down the flag, the speakers fled in panic and headed in a nearby cornfield. they will refer to this account as run on a small scale. the soldiers then raised glory and carried on their shoulders where he delivered a speech full of patriotism and humor of the

occasion. the crowd passed resolution and sang the star-spangled banner. among others who spoke was a member of the bridgeport contention, how junior, the sewing machine man. somewhat pretrade the cause of peace by betraying weapons but the soldiers managed to disarm a few of them but not before this was fired. despite his great wealth and service of private in the war. they burned the whole town. before thought was necessary, the bridge porters camped with what was left of the white peace flag dragging off in the mud. soldiers remain in a mood and when they returned to bridgepo

bridgeport, it appeared in the streets by evening. the democratic newspaper. several new york papers about the defense of the day, ending his first dispatch by saying they have been talked out of attacking the former offices but a short time later, he said the newspaper had just been gutted. the windows were smashed and presses destroyed. he wrote his autobiography but did not approve of the summary and suppression of the paper. he offered the proprietors of handful of enabling them to remove that publication. these were journalists on the opposite side. one of the editors escaped on the rooftops during the right,

fleeing to canada and eventually handing it off to georgia. less than a week later, one of the principal peace meeting activists on orders on secretary of state, president lincoln from his bridgeport reporting that he rendered it so scarce but cannot find one for exhibition. [laughter] praising the effectiveness of the administration strong arm. let's go ahead and turn to questions now. >> if anyone wants to come up here, or does anyone want to sit and ask questions? will do it that way if that's okay with c-span. any questions?

>> how do you think bottom ford have adapted? [laughter] >> i've been asked that several times. bottom was someone who really embraced new technology. one of his reasons for his success, he knew how to use newspapers, he was a master as newspapers had become extremely prevalent in new york city alone and barnum's days, he was an advertiser of newspapers. , telegraph, he kept in touch all over the world to find it.

as he got involved in the circus part of his life and moving services around so he was very interested in technology. i assume he would have used it, as certain people do but i think he would have embraced it. >> any more questions? >> you want to ask yours? >> i wonder if barnum had any personal relationship with abraham lincoln and if lincoln had an opinion about barnum. >> the one thing that strikes me is suggesting something about lincoln's opinion about anna, i one time after lincoln was

president, he came to new york with his family and barnum into his hotel and more or less, begged him to come to the museum. lincoln did not. at the time, dunham's exhibit was on display there. they were exhibited as a possible missing link. the results were i believe play on at the time that was somewhat controversial. so lincoln stayed away. members of the family didn't go. lincoln did 1863, lincoln welcomed tom from the white

house right after their wedding in new york city, which barnum engineered. so barnum felt comfortable sending a telegram, so i don't think there's relationship. it's interesting that people who wear very close, spent many nights in barnum's house, does not mention him at all in his memoirs. there's no mention whatsoever. the other memoirs that i can't quite recall, of course really ended up writing for office so it could be that he was just very aware of the negative side

of barnum's public right mutation. reputation. >> could you explain what that relationship was between barnum and tufts college? why was there some relationship there? >> it's often described as a universal institution, it was founded by universal, maybe hairsplitting. somebody who did a lot to support religion, he became very involved in giving money to that institution. the president was very good at extracting so one of the

enduring ethics of that relationship is that barnum had a building built on campus for science building. at some time after barnum brought it to america, after being hit by a freight train, bottom had been stopped, his skeleton was rebuilt and had two exhibits instead of one but a lot of it ended up in the main hall

and the athletic team was known as the jumbo. in 1965, that building burned down. seventy-five oh, okay. sorry, you look very young, i didn't mean to imply. it was destroyed. >> who was next? >> st. lawrence college and one other. >> barnum was quite the tracker for his time. could you tell us in antidote from one of his adventures?

>> i guess one defining moment in barnum's life was, he took them to england with a plan for introduce him to queen victoria. there wasn't reason to believe he would have access to queen vittoria and didn't for a while but to work on various people. later he took him to their and they traveled around. he brought a charity in his wife with him and then to france. she found english to be immoral so you can imagine. so she went back home and never traveled much again.

barnum had it with tom and shepherd ponies. in front of the next town, he was kind of on the town and at some. >> , he became very interested in its drinkable form and there's also one of his letters and newspaper back home talks about his pleasure and that sort of thing. there's a pretty clear undercurrent in that, he was a little too involved and indeed, soon after he came home, he

began to strip away his interest in alcohol and eventually became the street temperate speaker so i guess i think one is squashing his grave. [laughter] >> i wanted to know the role of disability they had. i don't really have an answer for that question. clearly, he understood the

interest, even though i don't have an answer, according to enter. he understood the interest of people and seeing people who work or what called freaks who had disability or people who were lacking in all pigmentation, people who were enormously fat or enormously thin, the siamese twins. he did have -- i don't know if you know the movie, i've tried to forget the movie but i think there's a very 21st century hollywood hate and became great friends. i think he had relationships with some of those people that

were admirable but i think on the whole, we would not be very comfortable with the way he thought about them. >> the people who had the land and the idea of freak show happened closer to the 20th century and people who were part of his performance were natural wonders so there's a whole different new sensibility to act. >> i grew up in bethel micro here, i have the institution of being a politician here. you brought a lot of what barnum is in self-awareness, i wondered

in all of your research, whether things who started to get on and wonder about, but you are still hoping it will answer to the you might find somewhere down the road? >> well, there's a wonderful collection of letters from barnum, i think of as sort of the boston barnum, moses kimball who was a close friend of barnum's, also has a museum very much like the american museum. also traded asked with barnum, they put on similar moralistic dramas. kimball also became a politician later in life. and there's one very intense

chunk of their correspondence that is in the boston museum. it's all concentrated in about one year. i looked at arthur who headed this, collector of barnum flutters instead since your book came out, any of kimball's letters turned up? i have not but i would love to see that and show up with it. don't you think that would be wonderful? it be nice to see a longer stretch of that. >> [inaudible question] >> barnum letters that came to light later did turn up in bethel recently and was donated

to the public library. some of those letters are very interesting. >> we have time for one more question. >> i have two things. thank you first of all. the merciful presentation, i'm fascinated by that. that exquisite poetry of bring the other audiences by that. do you -- can you tell me more

about his caring for her toward the end of her life? i am quite fascinated by barnum years ago and the recent presidential election happening, he kind of jumped into my brain and said no, you cannot compare me to this man. we are totally different because i have principles. i made a piece dedicated for him coming back to earth to clear his name from that. >> bravo to that. he had become ill, two or three months before she died and barnum hired a woman to take

care of her as she was still being exhibited and she was taken to barnum's half brothers house here in bridgeport where she died. i guess you could say they didn't have to do that but you could also say she was protecting the investment. so i don't know that he showed any beyond the whole context, sort of exhibiting her. i don't know that he showed any particular cruelty to her but that's pretty much what i know. kathy and i are in conversation

about the question of whether barnum charged people to attend the autopsy. >> i'm yet to see any current document because given written by the newspaper editor about time, doesn't talk about 1500 people the in charge, that comes later on so become secondary sources to the original story where there were surgeons, students and there was press invited into the autopsy. >> i have to research this before the paper comes out but i

believe -- i think i'll be able to find advertisements. >> and we have and they are all secretary secondary. >> there coming out and finding people. >> celeste the fascinating thing, more to look at and it's always going back to graduate store. source. we were so immersed in that because of re- envisioning what we are doing in the museum story. it's those hard stories, we have to clean into it and not be afraid, to really make barnum human in the context of this time. it's appropriate for audiences today but it's fair to history. so we are going to be telling the authentic story about barnum that humanizes him, who he was. in fact honest and that is our responsibility.

>> i would like to say the question is, something that always comes up. i think it's interesting that there's so many superficial ways in which they seem similar. they have a slippery relationship with the truth, their names and brand, they were in real estate, they went bankrupt. they called themselves philanthropist. but i think as you point out so well, the differences are, so great that it is an insult to barnum. >> so with that, thank you. [applause] thank you so much. [applause]

so don't feel you have to run out. thank you all so much. there's tea, there's coffee, take your time. bob and i will be up here, you can get your books personalized and enjoy the rest of the afternoon and thank you all so very much for coming. [applause] >> here's a quick look at the lineup. east asian security affairs, the role of kim jong un in north korea. democratic senator karen brown of ohio profiles sanders proceeded him. sarah explores the political history in america. fox news provides history of america's 19th century war with mexico over texas.

they are weakening democracies around the world. adult airing tonight on c-span tooth book to be. starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern. for more schedule information, or visit our website book tv.org. book tv on capitol hill to ask representative john of california was on his reading list. >> a lot of things. first, there's a lot of papers i have to read, various reports, some classified and some ongoing work from a subcommittee which has involved about $290 billion of taxpayer money. it keeps me busy. however, there's all the other things i want to read. a lot of history. right now, i am working my way to disagreement between the ottoman empire and there's a great book