complement but everybody will have the struggle. you are better equipped than most to do it. >> they give very much. you can have the book outside thank you for a wonderful evening. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> hello everyone welcome back to barnes & noble upper west side. we have an amazing author who will talk about her new book and i hope you are as excited as i am. if you do not know her in award-winning journalist at new york university who has written extensively about diversity and news media in the art world author of spectacle that was the naacp award black journalist white media that won the award for media criticism those books are available over there as well her views are regularly published in media the guardian the nascent and higher education books she knows what she's talking about.

and actuation of how workplace initiatives have found her profoundly misguided industry industries and institutions it also highlights sharing valuable lessons how other industries can match those gains and we need to abandon to do what it takes to challenge endearing racial attitudes don't just take my word for it national book award-winning author how to be antiracist has said she has written a far reaching and a crisply worded book and that the cold sultans are not working and explains why institutions can do better and diversity inc. explains exactly how. so tonight joan walsh the

national affairs correspondent for the nation as well as a political contributor to amazing intelligent and fantastic women here tonight so please join me to welcome pamela and joan. >> hello. thank you. hello. hi everybody. i am very happy to be here i love pamela. and i was very attracted to the title and the idea of this book diversity inc. because we all know we are sending billions of dollars to put a

band-aid on a giant or miss wound. his name is donald trump. [laughter] but it's more than that. but the book is more than that and goes how all kinds of institutions are dealing with it even with a don't bring on consultants for better or worse but just talk about the industry how do we have an industry that is so expensive but yet so ineffectual quick. >> it's like the american way. we throw money at everything. and for some people spending a lot of money means you are doing something. in the case of diversity initiatives the question that i started out with why you

keep doing the same thing and expecting different results quex in the needle is barely moving i didn't realize how bad the numbers were until i did the research i knew those numbers were bad. >> what percentage collects academia i am a tenured professor but i'm a long 4 percent. so when you look at those dollars that are expended without any accountability

, and we have constructed this elaborate diversity we have it down and redo the climate surveys and hire consultants and mind you a lot of this only happens after an embarrassing episode. talk about prada and gucci and starbucks and nfl. there is an industry out there and they treated as one person who does this for a living. to be treated like fire extinguishers. and then to be forgotten about. she has a lot of numbers in this book i don't want to know on - - bore you with them but what blew me away about this industry it is a totally unregulated industry there is

no standar standard, this is how you get certified but what blew me away is 35 percent of diversity professionals have no access to the demographic data and then to be diverse and those that are underrepresented can't even see the problems are that maybe these companies are not as serious as diversity as the rhetoric and the expenditures would suggest. >> google spent 114 million so

what are they not getting quex we should get some success stories. >> yes. we should. so a lot of times journalist and we are good at analyzing problems and to find solutions to those problems. and actually there are effective models and the institution is really serious about this. to have a symbolic diversity the major company that i look at is coca-cola after it was sued and settled on part of

that settlement is to establish a task force to oversee everything that it is doing with diversity. and that gets into the metrics of it. and without the company how much are people making at the same length quex what patterns of bias could be detected and then disrupted in real-time quex it dramatically changes the number and the culture of coca-cola. i'm not suggesting it was easy or perfect. so how one might go one way.

and to transform a workplace rather than throwing money at it. and allied pressure. and with the civil rights movement. and then these professionals that come out of all those schools so it's never an excuse but what a lot of companies have continued to say when they are called out is the pipeline. it's true in the 19 sixties i will give you that. in 2019 that is no longer true. if you only look at ivy leagues which you shouldn't,

you should be able to move on - - move the needle and a lot of workplaces if you are serious about doing this work one of the eighties and nineties experience i worked for a black clad nonprofit in oakland and there was an incredible pipeline of african-american talent. every job has multiple people who wanted it every once in a while they hired a decent white person. i don't know how or why how that happens. >> that i worked for all of these white organizations who just don't know where to find anybody. it's so hard. >> it's treated like i just don't have that diversity.

you have to be kidding me. in journalism we are journalist. we are trained to do research. we can find where the qualified journalist are out of four newsroom i was the only african-american in three of them. they could not find us. really quex. >> i can find us. it is exhausting. >> you don't write like it is exhausting you write with passion and optimism. >> i think it's more realism. but little bit of optimism that you may have detected i don't see. >> but it can be done. >> yes. but what i'm not optimistic about is white america's

ability to see past the fiction of the people or the centuries old demeaning images of people and how that has as much to do with the lack of diversity, the education system what is in literature or toxic cultured and in a lot of ways as putting lipstick on a pig. you try to address something without really addressing the cancer of the culture. it is a band-aid. we have not even begun to

really deal with it. because i know i have been on the faculty at nyu going on 26 years and in the 19 sixties with all those college protest were about. and the lack of curriculum that presented a more realistic take of america so white america could understand complicity in the continuing inequality and racial injustice. and i am optimistic it can be done i am less optimistic of the will to do it. >>.

>> the other part of the book that is separate from the industry is really about these three fields of academia, journalism and entertainment. and then a few nights ago and these are the fields that are representing the world. and i thought about the #metoo movement because the men that were being accused, some of the men, a lot of the men were in journalism, telling the story of hillary clinton in 2016 and charlie rose and harvey weinstein but these men are telling us our stories and the same is true and much worse for people of color.

and then to push this. >> much of my work and to be concerned with the portrayals you can draw a straight line from the tuesday meeting portrayals for the police pulling over someone then they end up dead. innocent people last week someone in their home so people think it's just a show or a movie or a book. no. it has real life consequences for a whole race of people.

and those implications of media portrayals and with the real life devastating consequences. and we paid attention the last few years for how the slave trade builds major universities especially ivy league but not just the ivy league. there is more attention paid and that is great but if you think about it come i don't mean to sound like a naïve white person but that is part of what is going on going back to charles murray through the

present with these people and academia that are from white supremacy so look at scholars of color who want to connect the dots. >> move on. >> are you kidding me quex even the narrative when does the university presidents have gone before the student and faculty body to say we have been complicit for centuries? the way we have stole on told the story of african-americans. >> who's doing that? almost no one. so it has to start.

to have a simple solution to this problem there is no quick fix and then really quick. i did interviews early today on bloomberg maybe five minutes then quick quick quick. how do we do it quex. >> it's not that simple. the american experiences multilayered, complicated, and everyone wants to look at someone like me that my problem is that i know many of the people who look like me don't get the opportunity. who didn't get to have the kind of opportunity and people

thought we are post race. remember? and then the times that were post race. now we are post race and now nobody says that anymore. so for every achievement to stick the flag in the ground and say victory. we won the civil rights movement. reelected barack obama. it is over. no. we have reconstruction. we had the kkk we had the civil rights movement and the

backlash to that. we have been in these cycles forever. >> two steps forward one step back? but how much do you feel like electing barack obama brought us donald trump quick. >> i feel very strongly we are in the backlash to barack obama just as we did two reconstruction. to see the black governors and congressmen. at the epidemic of lynchings and now we live to something similar again. and it is america.

>> it is the beauty of the ideals out of one is many. we have the words. >> so it lives up to where we have fondly struggled. the optimism is that people continue to struggle. even those that don't think in the end we will see the kind of equality to be articulated like reverend martin luther king. so when we get there as a country. but many of us will continue to fight it is our right to have a quality. >>. >> have they gotten better? and from our experience entertainment has gotten

better. i am working on this project in 1968 the week harry belafonte hosted the tonight show it was a revolution with all this amazing black talent including diane carol to bring together self-consciously to see this black talent like martin luther king or bobby kennedy. and then to imagine that progress that would continue to progress without vigilance and the big sixties after and

then it spoke to the white america's complicity and then suddenly the doors open like julia and diane carol. >> and then in 2015 we had two years in a row where none of the acting nominees are of color. so i am saying yes, this past year one of the biggest films as black panther i think that would mean black films make money. they do. every study shows the more diverse a film cast the more money it makes. >> i have numbers. i am a nerd also.

>> that it is incredible. but the problem is, this is the problem. we still live in a rigidly segregated society. i live in new york and you live in new york go to many journalism and publishing events of the only african-american nor one of few. that i'm the only african-american in their universe. and the social world of people implicated in a workplace. who gets the letters quick.

>> many of us are not in those circles. this is my kkk over races of my writing about not at all. some of that exist of course. that's not what i'm writing about. in the way we live in a society. segregated churches, segregated schools, segregated socialist fears and in the higher up the chain goes. but there are so many patterns in american life that we need to shift for diversity to truly flower. there are strategies that can work. if for instance in journalism

where they can't seem to find any people of color even in new york city, i don't get it. >> 21 sportswriters there are no black sportswriters? right. how can it be quick. >> i was trying to be authentic. >> let's keep trying. >> but the social sphere and i'm not asking anyone to be my friend i have plenty of friends. >> she's too busy. >> i'm not saying white person

please be my friend that's not what i'm suggesting. i'm just saying that this is just the natural way that people get jobs and we are shut out of that. so they can still go outside of their circle of professional organizations and all kinds of networks particularly in journalism that you should be able to tap into to find talent. >> were just not able to do it it's kind of crazy to me. >> but what i was asking about hollywood but oscar is so white and then the boycott 2016. do you think that helps quick. >> it helps for a few years. it did. but if you look behind the

camera that hasn't changed. so look at the directors, the executives who file films. and the producers and the writers. so that hasn't changed. and that needs to change if you want to move the needle because it is that same cycle of who are you hiring and what networks are you tapping into? it is a vicious cycle. is like pulling in talent that is entertaining but not those who write the story or greenlight the story. but that's the barrier.

and wine of the revelations of doing this book, look at the progressive field with journalism and the arts. they are the least diverse fields in the most is corporate america. in what we find in the field with basic business principles. there is a lot of nepotism there is no anti- nepotism causes. they are elite and what does it look like in america? or with the american imagination there are many

factors that contribute and then to bring us ideas. and the more that is perpetuated the worse the situation we are in. >> i think people are progressive they feel i got this. >> ike where one - - i care. [laughter]

>> i know less about the industries you are discussing tonight of journalism and interim one - - entertainment. >> the president of the new york urban league. >> ps more importantly. >> and she headed the minority supplier development council which is a 50 -year-old organization to bring minority businesses into doing business with a fortune 500 companies. i posted something on your face but because i'm so glad you are talking about it. that complication you have not touched on but that is diversity you discuss black white.

and it's a catchall and one company where apple the diversity officer said even a blue-eyed white man can be diverse. that is correct because they are trying to get economic diversit diversity, regional diversity. they will have metrics to be dispersed spirit that's way i focused on racial diversity we have lgb t we have everything compounded by race.

>> that's what i would do. >> but i can tell you in corporate america it is a shell game 80 percent of more contracts that go out to corporations every year still go to white companies. everybody else so that percentage has stayed four-year. >> over 15 years, case in point fortune 500 ceos that the percentage of whites dropped 82-point something percent. because white women. people of color the numbers didn't really change that much. you are right. that's why i drill down on racial diversity and to be

overshadowed by the overtaxed term. it is part of the problem. >> so one issue that i see is diversity like some other corporate initiatives is sideload away from the profit centers. so if you have a law firm and all the partners are thinking about billing hours and not diversity and that's the way it goes.

and those structures. and those diversities and the executive suite. >> to be marginalized. it's not hopeful it's not helpful. >> not sure of my thinking but why would people who dictate policy change if they don't have to? power never concedes power. >> okay. >> and that may be true that

is just not going to change. i asked my students how many of you have had a privilege that you have given up just because it's the right thing to do so i took my allowance one week. did you give it up forever or for a year? what did you really give up? you may be right. sometimes things change because they are right. not often. i'm probably not all the way there with the arc of history bends toward justice. at bends and then it bends back. lacey that as a continuum where we will fight and make

chang change, and we are doing better than many of our ancestors. we have children we will do everything we can and that they do better but we just can't stop fighting. we have to fight. many people think victory. it's over. b will not be fighting. so until the day we are dead and then our kids and their kids will continue to fight this not quite as pessimistic as who's giving up power the demographics of this country are upon us. by 20 / 45 people of color will be the majority that is what the wall and immigration and kids in cages is all about voter suppression.

it's on. we are on that kind of struggle over demographics those will determine some of the change because i'm often reminded of south africa that's 90 percent black 10 percent have the power but the demographics won't necessarily determine destiny but we have to continue to fight the fight. >> did you do any research into traditional female professions like social work or nursing.

>> i look at the numbers i do drive on those three fields of higher ad and corporate america. i can't look at everything but people of color are acutely underrepresented in every influential field. every single one where we are overrepresented as caretakers, caretakers, or a security guard. this is systemic and not relegated to one or three field fields. >> i want to know your opinion talk about this and tie bias training. i have been to a couple of them. >> we all have. [laughter]

but then to say okay look at the structure for what existed in this society everybody will be looked at that. >> so in a few hours we will undo the damage that has been done for centuries around race for go check a box. bad is considered drive-by diversity. we will just fix it overnight or in a few hours. i look at many of the studies on diversity and anti- bias training and the most comprehensive studies at best say it makes a negligible difference and a study by a professor at harvard shows it makes things worse particularly if you require it

it causes a lot of resentment. and the numbers of people of color usually drop after you go through that because there is so much tension and resentment around it. it's not the way to go but that's what they are spending their billions on doing things like that. >> talk about being hopeful in terms of the entertainment industry, do you think tyler perry and his new enterprise which will bring so many people of color into various aspects of movie and theater production are a part of the answer to put more people out

there quick. >> obviously people of color owned their own is always helpful. and tyler perry there was one started by ava there's a lot of activity of people opening their own studio. of course that will help does that help the systemic problem we talk about? probably not. that yes. it will help and employee some people than they will be traine trained. hopefully then they can go to other studios. but i'm not convinced the pipeline was ever the problem anyway. i don't think that will change the systemic issues i'm talking about. thank you everyone.

[applause] >> this was an incredible discussion now my favorite portion of the night is the book signing. we have copies over there you can grab one and get it signed. . . . . members of congress about their reading list. >> senator marsha blackburn, what is on your reading list these days? what's i got a great reading list.this week i