[applause] [inaudible conversations] >> good evening i am a visiting fellow here at the american enterprise institute also the "washington examiner" and we have a great discussion tonight. we brought here the author of dignity which came out earlier this year we should buy it and it's beautiful because also a photo book as well as a great

collection of stories that reveals america. with a phd in physics to go into finance and then started to go for walks during the day and then it got longer and longer. with new york angiography. and then exposed to the back row of america. drug addicts, drug dealers, prostitutes, and convinced him he needed to figure out what was going on across the country. to bakersfield california he traveled the country to talk to people. and again he wasn't doing that

around the country trips that people do by visiting the back row for the prostitutes the homeless or formally homeless or the veterans or the immigrants. but then recently if you follow twitter he has visited the most deplorable group of all which is the conservatives here at aei. the tax collectors and has gone far lower with the tax cutters. [laughter] >> i want to start what hit me most in the discussion of introspection in the front row. now here we are at aei and here we are in washington dc and deafly the most educated

so i am a catholic so those are the most directness is directed at the shortcomings so talk about the denigration of the front row with the forms of non- credentialed media that people find meaning outside of the nice house and other things. so talk about what you found around the country. >> thank you for having me. also tim did write a book by the way and you should read that. so the agreement was political for sociological. so the back row those on the screen or took pictures of

people who live in the bronx the door side or the picture of ohio, it is not defined by geography or income although it is pretty much income and not defined by race but people who don't go to college. or they go to state schools or community college. the contrast in my prior life i have a phd in physics and also a bond trader. that's why call the front row the people who look very different and come from all over the world. that share a common theme that your life pretty much is through the same institutions like harvard or princeton or yale with postgraduate degrees and internships may be moving to new york city or dc.

we run the world. we run the banking and the law firms. and one of the things we have done is that we defined the world in a positive way that we only look at material things and in particular how many material things you get. it is a function of how big your resume is. so the things that i found in my journeys and what you will see in your pictures are those who find meaning in more traditional ways with things you don't need a resume for to

place the value of the friendships that you form in that neighborhood. i always laugh when i think about and just talking and talking and interview them and i remember telling somebody wrapping up an interview they were born 20 miles down the road. and so you live in your town all your life? he said no. i was raised 20 miles down the road. [laughter] he wanted to get it right. there was a woman in in an african-american town in missouri and i said you are from here? she said no i am from 1 mile

outside. [laughter] so place matters to people. and there is a lot of value in place. that also doesn't necessarily require credentials. and third was racial identity. these are things that effectively are things that give you many value that we cannot quantify or measure but over time we just assume they don't have value. the cost of that is immense. so the way we think about the world is a very narrow framework and the thing that

matters is resume, education and how much money you make. >> it's harder to measure where you are from with community bonds and that is something i see admitted. one economist that when she saw the black hillbilly to emphasize the things that were so vague and airy. and to look at other ways to measure that value. and the article in the washington post people will constantly talk about the accident and to say it's

unfortunate of where you are born can determine your outcome but that doesn't seem like an accident. but it does seem to matter but it seems arbitrary and clinging to it are these an efficient. >> that's why say we devalue them because we cannot measure them. and a quantitative function on the front row so the whole moving thing. to say i don't like free trade i think it is awful. but the way we think about free-trade it is a trade-off. it's trade-off and game over we will do it. we don't know what the losses are because we cannot measure

the losses. and on a spreadsheet they look like a factory gone in milwaukee but in real life it destroys communities and families but more than that it takes away people's meaning. being able to have a downtown bar. so it's the way to measure the fact free trade has not been distributed evenly across the country and those that have not experienced a slight decrease in the wage when the factory shut down, a lot more happens then the money flowing in their. >> exactly so the reiteration

of the solution with the whole u-haul thing. not only pragmatically if you ask to sell their assets. >> this is the number one question to talk about alienating america should these people move? you spent more time talking to people in some of these towns. and we moved to where we have the if you care about this person were drugs are running rampant why wouldn't you tell us to move? >> to say who i am speaking to

his not them that the policy people who also assume moving has no cost. i reference this all the time but the perfect example mexican-american woman in east l.a. was staying in east l.a. to go to the community college by passing a different opportunity because she was staying there to be her mom's translator she is first-generation like older immigrants she does documents for her mother. why should we think? that's my position. why should we expect people just to tear family bonds to sell assets at low prices? and it is elitist because it doesn't require money to have

those. those are things that were gifted at the one - - a birth that is extraordinary elitist. people know me and recognize me so to help you get your credentials and meaning. so you are known. for having not been around for 20 years. so one of the words to talk about the value that one thing that is really negative is tribalism. we know what we mean by that and politics is just what side you are on and not thinking for yourself but i read this :-colon how try ballistic and

how they were for wanting to leave and then he described his group of friends how they would lose from brexit because his friends were constantly traveling to enjoy the food and then talk about the shared experience all with the same worldview as much as we could. so the front row is a tribe that thinks it is above tribalism and that is necessary and people need to belong to tribes. and people need to be a valued

member. it is a law firm or a bowling league people need to be a valued member. and the front row we are the end group we are the cool kids and we set the rules of what is cool and as such, we don't necessarily like to see themselves to be part of the in group. so i think the piece of the book is stagnating because when you take these away from people and non- credential forms when you make people feel they are in a row trace

, that is humiliating. the opposite is looking for dignity. their dignity is a double edged sword it can be positive you can find dignity like i have seen pigeon keeping and while raising a family but there is also ways we'd rather them not to find dignity and part of that goes to the race so that when people are humiliated search for a way to find the dignity and there are negative consequences of that. some of that you say that the trump rallies are a tribe it is a non- resume so come join

the election and let's have fun. >> the argument i make in my book is that people are seeking to belong. so the framework that i use is belonging to something. so my argument is suffering the parts of america so i have looked at a lot of these places that were suffering i saw the swimming pool that is closed down and yet you still get the food stamps or unemployment or whatever that adds up to but is not even close to belonging to the labor union that shut down. and that alienation is what it

leads to for other things to belong to. sometimes it's a street gain or isis or white nationalism or wearing the red make america great again hatch. but the bitter irony for the political left that to some extent i thought that we could all get along better but if you were people that belong to a church then more people will belong to things that will cause more strife or not lead them towards happiness. that's my argument. >> there are variations that are similar but i think both

of our books talk about this. and the loss of the jobs is what cascaded everything. so in that sense very much on the left. but the loss or the original sense was the loss of the factory to have the ability, all the things that you said that they started to participate. i'm less comfortable talking about cultural issues it's not my strong point or where i come from. that people on the right that i am saying as agnostic so the

loss of faith is absolutely huge. but the one place that was contrary to my thesis was utah. it doesn't have the levels of despair the other places have. it does but the reason being is the church is there and they play a very central role in those that both regulates and a sense of place. so the solution to whatever we have going on is the fall of the church has held capitalism and check.

where you don't go too far screwing your neighbor as a capitalism one dish is a capitalist because they are religious rules capitalism without religion is a disaster. >> and jerry did not know his abcs and as he put it that then i got saved at 50 paraguay never felt were the i was too dumb. now i understand i am worthy of the lord. the most non- credentialed form of meaning just for being human to become worthy and that modern culture and economy does not grant that.

if you can't read or if you have the wrong views. but i want to move on. i will come back to make it uncomfortable for the right in a little bit i want to pick on the left. you and i had the same experience to be ignored in our books by the left and specifically use a phrase for those who are left behind there is an interview at fox.com where there is a professor who was arguing similar the fox.com interviewer interjects and says they have not been left behind they have been chosen nondata have chosen not to keep up that shocking for somebody on the left to say before donald trump. so with the white working class so those that were look

at people who are suffering especially due to tree for - - free trade and now to say you are responsible for your own suffering. >> the way i frame and i believe i'm from the left and one very important way if i see people suffering social ills i would never blame those qualities but the structure they operate. i will not call them lazy or dumb or racist. and with those political structures at the individual level in a group level.

the left has rightfully done that when it says welfare cleans out laziness. just get a job or addicted to having kids, violence, crime last they said look at the situation they find themselves in they find themselves in neighborhoods of obstacles because of racism in secondary everything. let's hold off and stop calling people subhuman. so the left would do the same to working-class white people with the choices me made that no they have privilege and my

book well before any of the trump stuff happened that which has taken place during the election. and i remember in one west virginia trailer park where a lot of things were going wrong with a family that had done a lot of wrong in their lives and i forget the context and talk about privilege. he just looked at me. [laughter] and said really quick's are

you fucking with me? [laughter] and that he is not being told that he's being told that with a sociology student from cornell on twitter. so it is just mind-boggling so this is where i will criticize the left that i think there is a belief on the left that a misunderstanding of how much privilege in education. but that is slightly uncomfortable because it makes people feel like they have more privilege. >> and i want to go further than that because one of the things that means is connection.

to read homer and i learned greek but i met some of my older brothers and one of them went to a much better college than i did maybe he learned calculus or computer programming. but what helped him as he went to yale when he dropped out of philosophy school he dropped at a veil he got a job. that education isn't just who you meet by learning the code or how to interact or how to speak not to get a neck tack on - - a neck tattoo. when you absorb them through educations to what you learn in the classroom is a code of behavior and its connection and that is the nature of our privilege and accepting that

is uncomfortable. >> we set the rules culturally and economically. and with that with any club comes memberships you don't know that you have. to me the bigger issue is talk about the connection of african-american gentleman meeting in the projects in cleveland got a full scholarship to vanderbilt in the seventies. uses the derogatory phrases my mom was a welfare queen. but then 30 years later looking back i asked him what you think about it quick c set i wish someone had told me that going to college was not about studying but making connections he didn't use the words but he didn't have the

cultural capital to know when he got there so he studied. and he also had a gap because he had a lesser education to prepare so he spent the time hitting the books everybody else formed friendships they all came out with a rolodex and i came out with b grades. . . . .

even in the most destitute situation, people form rules in order. so you will be in a drug place and there's rules. they are unwritten but they are there. so i find it fascinating people actually self organize.

>> and fay form communities. >> when people are deprived of it, the get more. sometimes it will be drugs, sometimes it will be something we might think is better for them but more things. >> i think there's also something protocol owning stigma. if you get accused of being a dirty drug dealer eventually you will say yep, that's me. you call make this all the time, i might as well be it. that's what addicts do, they own the addiction. comment a dirty addict, that's it. exaggerate their addiction. there owning the stigma. >> a couple more things and we'll go to question. something close, you talk about, you sort of allowed unprivileged

that african americans have, you are allowed to and it's trying to have ethnic racial identity and find meaning in that. i sometimes wonder if white identity comes from a loss of ethnic identity. walking around thinking of ourselves as white because we were irish-american. tuesday we have more in common with italian kids and the black kids or grandkids is laughable. what did we have in common? so if you look at places where people are more likely in the senses to say i'm american, not i'm african americans, native american or not my nationality but what is your authenticity? are you african-american? they say no, i'm this american. mostly white people.

that, i think is where you will find a high correlation with that, with high trump support in the early primary. a lack of ethnicity and a lack of religion in people then seeking some other form of identity which might be whiteness. >> i don't think i'm a good person to answer that question. but what i would say is, he slipped on his head in a negative ugly way. the, why are blacks proud and i am not? people have said that to me. you're sitting at a barr at applebee's and then to a.m. and somebody says that after eight years, you can stop talking about privilege.

talk about cultural capital, majority of the minority or simply say it's the right thing to do. >> my answer would be, if you identify as polish, nobody would hold that against you. i think we still have difficulties because people will say there the day irish people beat up the jewish kids but i do think the whiteness is replacing other identities cash. >> french-canadian americans, get my hyphens right, they were most likely trump voters. i will say is when i go back to my meaning my faith, place and race, i always say the resume so you have to choose one of the four.

i say one of the three to me is going to be chosen by people because people of nothing are going to choose something. it's kind of like the root, you push one down someplace else. i think racial identity is the most dangerous one for the people because all of the obvious reasons but my warning has always been to the left, keep the value in place and keep the value in place. keep upping the ante resumes and adversities. you will get a rush and it's going to happen very quickly. so what frustrates me sometimes his racism is valuable.

it is a talent, name that is 30,000 people that lost it mills to mexico and others, downturn empty. his 99% white, french-canadian americans and smiling americans came, they replaced their family and 98 and some other somalian americans. i was talking to the professor of anthropology who said about racism, she said racism, she studies this issue instead, one of the things you will see is when someone visually is different, seems to jump the line, that's when you get a big upswing in the majority. that night, speaking of old training, they have a called

members only club that were organized around the bills. the one i went to was a snowshoe club organized around monthly snowshoe races. all the males would empty into the clubs. they didn't raise more. membership was 1 dollar. for those who think the membership was there to keep african-americans out, there were african-americans there in the club. talking to this guy next to me who had a rough life. in his mind, he was a vietnam vet. alcoholism, in-and-out of section eight housing and homelessness, drinking, stealing my cigarette and he goes off on a tiny, really nasty.

he stops, the bartender stops and says these are great. the interesting thing was this guy, when we spoke, he's like you federally was complaining about somalia americans jumping for getting free food. the line was literally double. he vertically saw these people who are newcomers, he didn't deserve to be there because they didn't fight for his country. they were now making history food distribution three times as long. why i don't approve of what he said at all, he's got to understand why he might run there. so if we want that not to happ

happen, we need to provide opportunities that are not easy scapegoats. have time for a few questions. we have microphones, please wait for the mic. it will be brought to you so wherever you pick. the microphone will be brought to you, quickly identify yourself your name and ask a question. >> i am from louisiana. i'm a son of immigrants. first, what do you see your endgame here? you don't check, you listen. you've done this eight years. what is your end goal? is it awareness? is an art form? just curious where you're at. second, where is people's anger

directed at? 's and when you ask them, interview them, is it directed toward the senator's, state senate, is it brought national? what do you hear? >> my wife could answer that as well. [laughter] honestly, the project was haphazardly done. it wasn't an end goal. it got motivated by political anger when i saw it's for people who are disparaged in the press over stereotypes of being hookers or what have you, people were actually wonderful people. the project was to get, let them tell their stories as i saw th

them, worthy of the bond trader as invaluable. or was the second question again? >> the anger is diffused. sometimes it's angry at whoever puts the pothole and. sometimes it's anger at procedural things in the past, sometimes immigrants. there's a tendency to want to punch. the more frustrated you are, the more you want to punch. more masculine you are, the more you want to punch. the anger is at the elites. it's a broad sense of feeling you are being patronized all the time, being told you are done. you're not worthy, your being laughed at. it's a real sense of, they know and they are convinced of this,

people, they make fun of them. the new york times, he just didn't get there. rather spend time with them. sometimes they don't know where to punch. it's hard to know, it's hard for me to know who to punch. when you are fat removed, it's hard. >> let me ask you a quick question. i would say, i was surprised at how easy it was to get people to talk to me about their life. i'm a political reporter from washington d.c. michael as i should check with them, tell them where i'm coming from and what i'm doing and there was always a little reluctance. they didn't like the word politics but i would ask him what it's like on here and soon

they are telling about their mothers time in rehab, etc. >> the think i told younger people what i do is you have to get them to stop talking. i've been at applebee's at 2:00 a.m. about the wrongs that cause this. people want to talk. >> if they can trust a guy from brooklyn and abstract, where i think the narrative, or where i think the story other is wrong, this idea that the poor the rich. they don't hate the rich. they're kind of frustrated they are not there, they view it as aspirational. i think with the prescott trump ron, trumps wealth is understandable. i don't like how trump made

money. i could say how he's really a business failure. but the guy put big building in the air. a lot of people understand that. that's what money is. exactly what i do. a lot of people, i did a silly thing. it comes with something called how to spend it. i forget that my how to spend it was in my car, in my fan. people were shooting up how to spend it. so i eventually said, i did this silly product, i say what you think about this? i have them looking at it and talking. they all loved it.

there wasn't this what you see on left-wing twitter. this is outrageous. this is $50000 role, i would love to have that. i think it will get wrong this idea that people don't hate. i don't like the wealthy but they don't hate them. they are aspirational. it's more like i wish i could do that. >> another question. >> do you -- there seems to be a gap in your awareness of what's happening. if you're working in finance, you should be aware. history of consolidating from a broker-dealers bond training jobs relocating around new york, you are actually in the situation, you're just more educated in a different bracket. but you don't seem to be aware of that. there seems to be a lack.

for example, people who are working in the coal industry in west virginia, they have long-term jobs. have a 20 year market and your act. they will milk you for everything you are worth. your 22 years old, will receive that. you don't sue the bank for that. you can't just lawyer up and you are the same person. >> i'm not saying there's not a lot of problems. but were you in the front office or back office? so it's a very different industry in the back and there's the front office. they treat the back office like crab. it's not a nice industry. i'm a journalist and it's a perilous industry to be in. but i think that they get sick, i think the main privilege is

connection and belonging. i think if i got laid off, and there were no jobs in journalism, the are people with money with other things who i could turn to and at least try to land on my feet. that's a lot harder when everybody you know is in that town and they all lost a job. my big experience was at the very top. a very elite group, a nasty group. >> over on the other side. upfront. >> what most surprised you about your interactions with the people you talk with your experience, what would you say surprised you? >> the openness.

>> don't try to do what i did necessarily because i spent most of my time in african american neighborhoods. no one ever tried to rob me or take anything from me. i was a little scruffier than this but had a 5000-dollar camera. at drug houses at 2:00 a.m. i walked into buildings at 3:00 a.m. just because somebody thought i should go there. nothing bad happened. i remember once, again, it's very different for females. entirely different world out there but in terms of the safety issue and trust, there is this

woman who i met on the street at 2:00 a.m. she was working the street. she was a sex worker. back to your think where people tell you, asked her story. she told me her whole story. three years later, she passed away. i located her body. if you die in new york without papers, your put into something called hard i them. it's one of the worst things in the world. i think 1 billion people are buried there. the poppers island since 1865. they put you in a trench and bear year. she died in over six months, i located her.

she was the x66. sixty-six death at that time. they put her on the island and through this process of getting her properly buried, i learned a lot about her past. i don't dig into people's past and that it's getting a body exhumed. three years later after this happened, everything she told me at 2:00 a.m. was right. her whole story she told me, she didn't lie or exaggerate. and again, it's the honesty of telling a stranger. it wasn't a good life. it wasn't something to be proud of. i would say people are very different and decent. that's always been my, the u.s.

paradox. the north is friendly and individually not. the south is individually friendly and otherwise not. ... >> i know people who have done that who have played the long odds and succeeded.

after three years my project in the bronx i wrote a piece saying that lesson learned nobody got out. shelley is in jail now where i get text messages from her, maybe not. shelley and ramon are still living in a van somewhere. so i didn't find any success stories. but then again i was also looking at the lowest of the low. one of the things that is uncomfortable for me to think about is that some just don't make it out.

that you just can tell at seven or eight. she will actually leap every hurdle and do what she needed to do to get out. but they themselves cannot say. so i don't know if that is teachable or whatever but to that that i am still doing it i am taking a break of doing this in foreign countries without a camera. but that was memorable other than just to see intellectually. >> so now the talk of getting

out reminds me of a conversation i have with the pastor from prince georges county that said he has a horrible self-contradiction. the people showing up in his community that are going to go and actively love their neighbor and care about their place. and to some extent where he is from and imagine that perspective from the pastor. he is there for life he doesn't want the brightest girl to get out but carrying individually he does want her to get out. isn't that the deplorable paradox we are in crack sat in 1950 that girl was more likely

to stay there and now if she does anything worth her talent and energy it will be getting up. >> i always tell people if you want to leave, leave. or go to college if you want to although it's not not necessarily what i believe it's not my place to tell them but if you do go to college, don't get into debt. do it on the cheap with a community college in pell grants and scholarships. but people don't want to leave and you cannot stop them. >> we are selling copies of the book outside.

he will sign them. thank you for doing this work it changes the way in the beginning is that i'm a christian and catholic and our duty is to love our neighbors and care for the least in the book you have done is a great example of that. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> the military threat from china is based on what the chinese call asymmetric warfare or assassins maze weapon going back to the warring states where a weaker power does not try to confront the enemy had on to develop spatial when the special capabilities that space warfare is a vulnerability for the united states it is dependent on multitude of satellites for navigation and china has understood to develop an array of weapons. this is a nonfiction book but i included a fictional scenario to launch a worldwide

pearl harbor and in the first phase is knocking out key missile warning satellites because the us operates with very good eyes in the sky to pick up heat signatures anywhere on earth. and that they could be crippled with its ability to function we are the sole superpower right now but china is working to diminish that capability. >> what about graham allison's thesis quack. >> i don't mention it in the book because i don't think it is a valid assessment. i don't think war with china is inevitable. the notion that two ancient

times to a declining rising power automatically goes to war. it has major chinese propaganda theme that china is a rising power in the world. but the united states must diminish. china traced to diminish the united states. but i see it to be the sole superpower. and i agree with president trumps strategy of peace through strength that goes back to the reagan administration where they basically said to prevent a wa war, make sure the other side does not miscalculate.

>> porn has become the de facto sex educator because we don't talk to them as parents or at school. so curiosity about sex is natural and important. what is different for this generation that with the smart phone and dropping that they can get anything they want and a lot of things that nobody wants at their fingertips on their phone. >> it is my pleasure to introduce mister sweeney who introduce youan to the distinguished lecturer. [a