trump doesn't have due process rights. so, that one is a little -- that one is a tough one for him to make. it's tough because the way in which the architecture of the constitution works the house of representatives is the impeachment phase is like the grand jury phase in a criminal investigation. so trump is klaining my lawyers don't get to participate, although now they have been invited to, but heath says i don't get protects and that's true on the criminal side. you get them in the trial. so absolutely you have a right to be present in the criminal trial, and to testify and to cross examine witnesses and tell your story, absolutely, just if you're indicted but that's on the senate side. so the process that's due, just occurs then. >> to access the c-span2 and booktv archives on impeachment visit our website, c-span.org

slash impeachment. >> booktv continues on c-span2, television for serious readers. good evening and thank you for coming. i'm tim carney, visiting fellow here tee american enter pies institute and the commentariy yesterday for the washington examiner and we have great discussion weapon brought here chris arnade, the author of "dignity" which came out this year. it's an excellent book. i read it love it. we'll be selling it afterwards. it's beautiful. and i say beautiful because it's also a photo book as well as a great collection of stories that really reveal america. so, chris is the first guy i've had on stage at i who has a ph.d in physics then used that

to go into finance, and then when he had this job in finance, he started going for walks during the day -- his walks got longer and longer, he ended up at hunts point chit nose terribly close to the financial district and he was exposed to what he called the back row of america. and this is drug addicts, drug dealers, prostitutes, and convinced him he needed to figure out what was going on in this back row across thank you country so from maine to barrackestfield, california, chris traveled the country, talked to people, and again, he wasn't do the. same going around the country trip other people. do if as visiting the back row, drug dealers, addict, prostitutes, homeless, former he homeless, immigrants and people

who hate it the immigrants and then if you follow twitter you know chris visited the most deplorable group of all which is conservatives. the visit hes hes the prosecuted tax collectors and he has gone lower by visiting the tax cutters. i recommend this book, but i want to start by what hit me most in your discussion here was inintrospection the mind set of the front row. at aio. l automaticle scholars have advanced dealings and in washington, dc, the wealthiest region in the country, and definitely the most educated region in the country. so i want to start with -- i'm a catholic. the homilies i like best are the ones most directed at the audience, our shortcomings. you talk about the denigration

by the front row of what you call, quote, forms of nobody credentialed meaning. people finding meaning outside of degrees, outside of jobs, outside of income, outside of a nice house. in other things. so can you talk to us what you found around the country in that regard. >> first of all, thank you for coming and thank you for having me. tim also wrote a book, by the way. and you should read that. so, i guess what -- to the degree my book is political or at al sociologyat, what i say is we -- i divide the world into front row and back row, and the back row is the people you'll be seeing on the screens here, people i took pictures of, people who live in the bronx, live in north side of milwaukee, people live in portsmouth, it's

not defined by defined by geography or income or races. it's people who don't go to college or if they've go to college think go state schools or community college. the contrast of that is my prior life i have a ph.d in physics and spent 20 years as a bond trader. that is what i call the front of row which is people who look very different, come from all over the world, come from all over the u.s., but share a common theme in that they -- their life since 16 has been through the same institutions. harvard, princeton, yale, post graduate degrees, internships, maybe moving to new york city, maybe moving to d.c. but only certain neighbors in, in new york city and only certain neighborhoods in d.c. we run the world. to be kind of blunt, the front row sets the rules and make the rules and we run the world, we

run the politics and banking and law firms. and we run academies, universities, and one thing we have done is we have defined a world very narrowly. we define the world what i deem be a positivistic way, the only look at material things, and in particular how much material things you get, how much economic capital you get, how many cultural capitol get as a fungs of how big your resume is am it's a credentialed economic. the thing i found in my journeys and the things you see in the pictures are people who find meaning and more traditional ways, and thing is -- things you don't need a resume for. place, very simply place. the value of living in the same neighborhood, the value tv friendships you form in that neighborhood. i always laugh when i think about -- hitting me when i was

visiting people after people, just talking and talking and i'd interview them, mostly mcdonald's, and i remember telling somebody, wrapping up one interview, and so they had been born 20 miles down the road, they had e -- 68, 78, lived atheir life there and i said you have lived is in town all your life, right? he goes, no. i said, what do you mean? he goals i was raised 20 miles down the road. he wanted me to get it right. there was the woman in cairo, an african-american town in missouri, who i said you're from okay row, she goes, no. i'm forgot a mile outside of cairo. so, those things matter. place matters to people. and there's a lot of value in place. and another thing that matters

that also doesn't necessarily require credential is religion, faith. and the third, which is a dangerous one, is race. racial identity. these are things where effectively you can walk -- things that give you meaning, give you value, that we can't quantify, we can't measure, but also i think we've over time the front rojas just assumed don't have value because we can't measure it. so we just tell people. just move, be a widget, go from a to b. what's the cost of that? cost of that is immense. so the way we think about the world is it is very narrow framework of one thing mattering and that thing that matters is a resume, education, and how much money you make. >> it's immeasurable and that's a -- harder to measure where

you're from, community bonds, faith, et cetera, and that's actually something that i seen admitted. one economist speaking here said that when she saw the book hillbilly elegy she didn't likes it because it emphasizing thing that were so vague and airy, like community bonds, and that they were looking for other ways to measure success or value or anything like that. but also i think it strikes a lot of people as arbitrary, which is to say you'll see articles -- an article the "washington post" recently that had in the headline, limit is dumb and peel -- loyalty is dumb and people talk but the accident where you were born and we can sea it's unfortunate that the accident of where we're born can demeanor the -- can determine the -- it seems to matter to a

lot of of people but in the front row it seems arbitrary and that clinging to it seems unwise, imprudent, inefficient and backwards. >> right. that's why i say we devalue them because we can't measure them. ...

more than that it takes away people's meaning. that was there center of the universe, having downtown bars and you can measure and hitting an all-time lie, a way to measure the fact that the effects of free-trade have not been distributed evenly across the country that were very uneven and have not experienced a slight decrease in the equilibrium wage but when the factory shutdown a lot more happened then less money flowing in.

>> the whole u-haul thing, with the money to move and sell their assets at a low, talking about alienated america, should these people move. you spend more time talking to people, some of those towns, you look around and hard to see. you move to places they have the best opportunities from new york to dc. and and -- >> or not to move. and assume moving makes no cost

to. and in east la. and and like a lot of older immigrants. and that is the right decision in my mind. and those have value to people. it is very elitist because they don't require money to have those. those were people gifted at birth and to take those away

from people. >> >> if people recognize me, 20 years i put in work. >> it helps you get meaning. you are known and have credentials and meaning for having been around for 20 years or helped somebody move. to talk about what is valued. and it is unfortunate that tribalism, and you are not thinking for yourself. after brexit, how try ballistic

the fishermen in sussex for wanting to leave and care about them and he described his group of friends and how much they would lose from brexit. his friends were traveling through the rest of europe and enjoying food from the rest of europe. and and our community is global. to think it is above tribalism and tribalism is necessary, people need to be long 2 tribes. >> the way i phrase it people need to be a valued member of something larger than themselves. that is a church group, a law firm.

people need to be a value member but in the front row, i think a better group, the cool kids and we set the rules of what is cool and as such we don't necessarily, no in the in group likes to see themselves as the in group, i don't have an apartment in mayfair, that is not privileged. when you have taken these things away from people, take non-credential forms of the meeting in place and made people feel they are in a rat race to build a resume to be a widget, moved about, that is humiliating and they are

looking for dignity and dignity is a double-edged sword, a search for dignity can be positive. you can find dignity, in the bronx, pigeon keeping, creating art, dignity in being a member of your community or raising a family but there is also ways we would rather people not find dignity, going to the race you can find a meteor tribalism and racial identity. >> people search for a way to find the dignity and there are negative consequences of that. 8 tribe -- trump rallies are tribe in some sense, they asen

and let's have fun. >> the argument i make is a big part of the trump phenomenon is people seeking to be long. meaning and dignity are part of it. it is belonging to something. my argument, in suffering parts of america, lacking things to belong to. i looked at a lot of places that were suffering and saw the swimming pool the close down, the church that is closed down, the factory that is closed down and the food stamp and disability or unemployment, whatever that adds up to doesn't come close to adding up to belonging to this workplace, the labor union that shutdown and that alienation, what it leads to largely is people -- sometimes it is a street gang,

sometimes basis, sometimes white nationalism, sometimes wearing the red maga hat, they are seeking to belong to something but it leads to bitter irony for a lot of the political left, a handful of liberal writers every in this. somebody said i thought we were in a more sick a country we would all get along better because we wouldn't have religious divisions but if fewer people belong to a church which is the most successful institution of civil society for the working-class and middle-class, more people belong to things that in one way or another will cause more strife or not lead them towards happiness and the good life. >> variations on the theme.

me, less explicitly, and that cascaded everything. and the loss of these other forms of meaning. and those started dissipating. and it is not where i come from. and people in the right have a thing where i certainly am comfortable, who is a valid gnostic, is absolutely huge. you went to salt lake city in

the book. the one place that was contrary to my thesis. and the church is there. it provides people with a roll, and provides a sense of place. i say this -- the solution to what we have going on in my mind, the fall of the church is a big loss that held in many cases held capitalism in check. and this tug-of-war where you

don't go too far screwing as a capitalist your neighbor you have the religious rules there, capitalism without religion is a disaster. >> jerry was the man who as he put it didn't know his abcs, he never felt meaning. this is not the way i as a catholic would play but that at 50 a change to me. i never felt worthy before being saved. now i understand i'm worthy of the lord. it is a non-credential form of meaning. you literally just for being human, our modern culture and economy does not grant that. if you can't read, if you have the wrong views or whatever, if i want to move on, to make it

uncomfortable for the right in a little bit, i want to pick on the left a little bit. you and i had the same experience. being ignored by the left, specifically you use a phrase that people who are left behind in dignity there is an interview on fox.com where there is a professor who was arguing something similar to what i argue and the interviewer interjects and says these people haven't been left behind. they have chosen not to keep up which would have been a shocking thing for someone on the left to say before donald trump existed. something about the white working-class and voting for donald trump especially in the republican primaries has created a situation where people who otherwise would look at people especially they lost their job due to free trade and

have sympathy and people saying you are responsible for your own suffering. that is what you hear from the right - >> the way i frame it. if i see a group of people suffering social ills. i never blame atavistic qualities, i blame the political structure they operate in. i won't call someone lazy. and won't call them racist. you have to look at the political structures people operate in. and a group level. the right has done that about urban neighborhoods.

addicted to having kids. violence, crime, the left is always said the situation they find themselves in, they face immense obstacles because of racism. the secondary everything. let's stop calling people subhuman effectively. and so i would think the left would do the same to working-class white neighborhoods and in some cases they do but in many cases they do. and when they look at the choices made in white working-class neighborhoods, these people have privilege. i am sorry this project, well

before the trump stuff happened, it only became political because in these election, i remember being in one west virginia trailer park. a lot of things were going wrong. with a family that had done a lot of wrong in their lives. a lot of people -- a white working-class guy, and it was f fuck you into me, really? compared to working-class --

the working-class white kid in the trailer park has privilege perhaps but he is not being told that by the working-class but by sociology student from cornell. it was just mind-boggling. i will criticize the left. there is a belief, and and and they have more privilege than they want. >> one of the big things is connection. i read homer, learned greek, lots of things.

and they went to a much better college than they did and learned calculus. and the he went to yale. and the education -- it is learning the code. how to interact, not to get a new tattoo that aren't especially taught to you through these, and what to pass on a standardized test, it was a code of behavior and its connection and that is the nature of our privilege and accepting that is uncomfortable. >> we are the cool kids culturally and economically and

with that comes memberships you don't know you have. the bigger issue, you talk about connections, there was never can american gentlemen in the project in cleveland who had gotten a full scholarship that vanderbilt in the 70s and to use a good derogatory phrase, my mom was a welfare queen, all those things in 30 years later looking back at this, if somebody had told me going to college wasn't about making connections, he didn't have the cultural capital.

and also had a lesser education preparing for this and spend time hitting the books when everyone else was forming friendships. and i came out with these. what is most frustrating about where education divides people, we use it as a way to silence the voice of the working-class because they don't know the right language, some of it is political correctness but a lot is -- this is where contrary to a lot of people on the right which -- expertise -- you are not allowed to speak on you have a resume that allows you to speak on it and that comes from the right and from the

left, you don't speak unless you know the proper words to use and that silences the working-class. very frustrating because a lot of the issues that are particularly topical right now that are language sensitive i found the working-class has a lot to say about it and not as negative as the educated class would like. they are pretty understanding of getting to this new place where the left wants to go but they don't have language to express that and the minute they use the wrong word they are going to be pounced on and called uneducated, dumb, racist, sexist so they just give up but very frustrating

because education provides language. it provides a language which is entry to being heard. part of my project was they let people speak on their own so i tried to put as much in the dialogue as possible so i am not correcting them. >> i really enjoy that part of the book. if there is a part that i wish you had drilled down more it seems like a contradiction between your book and alienated america. i wrote about how the real affliction of the suffering part of the country was a lack of things to belong to, lack of places to connect. connections to be powerful, connections to your neighbor and sense of belonging. a lot of your book was writing about how even in the rubble,

people were finding these connections, you have a picture of bingo night which is an amazing site and a bible study at mcdonald's and a crack house. then you belong, something to belong to. if i am arguing a problem, because i didn't look in the right places who had a different sort of thing. >> if you read it, i am a mcdonald's guy and it is starting to show now physically. for the same reasons a lot of people go to mcdonald's but i started hanging out at mcdonald's all the time.

most importantly you could just hang out there. i spent a lot of time in mcdonald's hanging out and seeing the friendships form and people who go before their wedding, very devastated towns like gary, indiana, basically the town center, on a sunday, you go in and that is it. it is like the town square. the old medieval town square. people are paying dominoes, romancing, doing everything, i would meet people at mcdonald's.

i couldn't believe i was seeing so much community to the point i was in denial, to take a photo of them. i couldn't possibly have met you at mcdonald's. mcdonald's is a story. i always say think about when mcdonald's was formed, entirely for transactional in and out in the community center. that is evidence of two things. people are that desperate in mcdonald's. >> they find meaning in community in the franchises. i don't see it different from what you saw, i think maybe we went to different places, i

went to places where there wasn't anything, the last thing standing. the desire for dignity, people have - relationships at mcdonald's. >> part of my argument is the big part of the suffering, lack of trust, you go into a town in west virginia and they talk about outsiders and the political class or china destroying their attempt but then i also think there is less social trust in a lot of these places.

poor people leave their bikes on the front yard. you talk about guys protecting their three corners. they are not getting shot by outsiders, washington lobbyists coming in and shooting them. the problem isn't the police dogs, the main threat to their life isn't police dogs and racist white cops anymore. it is going to be the fact the social fabric has broken down so much what they are engaging in is going to be warfare and drugs. >> i have a different view on this. i spent a lot of time in drug houses. and around drug dealers and a

lot of bad things go down. i spent 20 years on wall street. to me, they -- it is simply their legal system. you screw me over on wall street i will lawyer up and sue you and you screw me over and it is great. that is their legal system. they can't trust the cops but the cops can't be trusted and in the black economy, it is indelible to them. i spent a lot of time around drug dealers. if i had grown up in one of those neighborhoods i would be a drug dealer and most every

person i worked on on wall street would have done the same thing if they grow grown-up there. it is the option you have. you go with the option you have. it was a functional system that the system, the outside systems and functional for them. they create their own functional system. what i find fascinating is the opposite, even in the most destitute situations, people form rules and form order. you to be in a drug place and there are rules. they are unwritten but they are there. >> and they form communities.

they wrote the quest for community and people are deprived of it and sometimes it will be drugs, sometimes it will be something we might think is better for them. >> i want to make one more point. there is also something more than owning stigma. if you are accused of being a dirty drug dealer and have all the negative consequences, that is me. you call me this all the time i might as well be it. that is what addicts do, call me a dirty addict, that is it and they are exaggerating their addiction. you own the stigma. >> go to questions too. something close to race, sort of allowed the one privilege

and african-american has is it is fine to have rhetoric -- ethnic identity, racial identity and find meaning in that. i wonder if the white identity comes from a loss of ethnic identity. thinking of ourselves as white, because we were irish american. to say we have more in common with italian kids than black kids or korean kids is laughable. what did we have in common with them? if you look at places, i am american, not african american or native american, not my nationality, what is the ethnicity? are you dutch or african-american? i am just american. that is mostly appalachia or white people, that is where you will find a high correlation in opioids, trump support in the

primary. it is tied up to the lack of religion. and seeking some other form of identity which could be whiteness. >> i don't think i am a good person to answer that question but i would say, how i saw it flipped on its head in a negative way, and ugly way was why are blacks allowed to be proud of their race and i'm not? people have said that to me. if you are sitting at a bar at applebee's and the person excuses that after eight beers you can start talking about

privilege, social structures, talk about cultural capital, talk about majority and minority or simply say it is the right thing to do. >> my answer would be if you identified as polish no one would hold that against you. we still have difficulties because there are days when irish kids beat up the polish kids, beat up the jewish kids. the whiteness is replacing other identities specifically religion. >> french, canadian, american. >> they would most likely be trump voters. i will say to this point when i go back to nontraditional forms of meaning, faith, place, and race. you have to choose one of the four. one of the three forms of meaning will be chosen by

people. they will choose something which is the rug in the room. you try to push one and it pops up somewhere else. racial identity is the most dangerous one for people to seek meaning. had all the obvious reasons. my warning has always been to the left, if you stop devaluing faith and devaluing place and keep uping the anti-making a rat race of building resumes and going to universities, you are going to get the backlash and it will happen very quickly. what frustrates me sometimes is racism is malleable, and and flow. i don't know if you know

lewiston, 30,000 people lost textile mills to mexico and others, downtown emptied, 99% white, french, canadian, american, and somali americans came, they were initially 98 and some other somali americans so i spent some time there. i spent some time with a professor of anthropology who said racism, she studies this issue. one of the things you will see is when someone visually different is seen to be jumping the queue, jumping the line that is when you get a big upswing in racism by the majority. lewiston has members only clubs that were organized. the one i went to is a snowshoe

club organized around monthly snowshoe races but they, all the mills would go empty into the clubs, they didn't snow shoe race or race snow shoes anymore and it was one dollar and for those who think the membership was there to keep african-americans out there. in the snowshoe club. and someone would next to me had a rough life. in his mind he was a vietnam vet, alcoholism, section 8 housing, in and out of section 8 housing, homelessness but he is in their drinking, and goes off on a tirade, really nasty.

and and and he literally started complaining about somali americans for jumping and getting free food, his line was literally doubled and he literally saw these people in his mind who were newcomers, they didn't fight for his country like he did. now making his weight for free food distribution three times as long. why i don't approve of what he said why he might have gotten there so if we want that not to happen, you need, we need to provide someone like him

opportunities that don't find easy scapegoats. >> we have time for a few questions. we have microphones. please wait for the mic. it will be brought to you. wherever you pick, the microphone will be brought to you, identify yourself with your name and ask a question that sounds like a question. >> i'm from louisiana, son of cuban immigrants. what do you see as the end game, you are not a journalist because you don't check you listen. you've done this for eight years. what is your end goal? is an awareness, passion as an art form, curious where your mind is that. and it is anger directed toward

the local senator. is it brought national issues. what do you hear? >> my wife will answer that one as well. honestly the project was haphazardly done. it wasn't intended is any real goal. at some point, political anger when people who are routinely disparaged in the press or stereotypes of being worthless hookers, people who are wonderful people. part of the project is let them tell their stories as i saw them as worthy as a bond trader, as valuable -- in terms

-- what was the second question? >> the anger is diffuse. anger at whoever put the pothole in your yard, perceived wrongs in the past or immigrants. there is a tendency to want to punch. and the elites. a broad sense of being patronized all the time or told you are done, not worthy, being laughed at. there is a real sense that they know you are convinced of this. people make fun of them.

the new york times, washington post doesn't get them and would rather not spend time with them. sometimes you don't know where to punch. it is hard to know, hard for me to know who to punch. when you are that removed from the political process -- >> let me ask you a quick question. i was surprised at how easy it was to get people to talk to me about their life. my thought was always i should share with them, tell them what i am doing so a little reluctant. what is it like around here, mother's time in rehab. >> the thing i told younger

people is - i have been at applebee's at 2:00 in the morning. the wrongs that caused their truck to flip. people want to talk. >> if they did trust the guy from brooklyn in the abstract. >> where i think the story, the general story is wrong, the idea they hate the rich, they don't hate the rich. they are frustrated that they are not there. they view it as aspirational. with the prescott trump wrong is trump's form of golf is understandable. i don't like the way trump made his money and i can make mocking arguments about how he is a business failure, he

didn't beat the s&p but the guy puts big buildings in the air and for a lot of people they understand that. that is what money is. what i do, a lot of people don't have any -- this little silly thing, i get the financial times or i used to and it comes with a thing called how to spend it. a monthly supplement of how to spend it. i would be in these drug dens and i forget that how to spend it was in my car or my van and there would be people shooting up over the how to spend it. i even show will he said i did a silly project, i see them flipping through and what do you think about this? have been looking and talking and they love it and there wasn't what you see on left-wing twitter and this is

outrageous, 50,$000 rolex watch, i would love to have that, it is really pretty. people get wrong this idea -- i don't like will be but they don't hate its aspirational. it is more i wish i could do that. >> another question. let's go over here. >> i am from a finance background. there seems to be a gap in your awareness of what is happening in finance. you should be aware, there aren't as many broker deals which means not as many bond trading jobs, relocating out of new york. you are in this situation, just more educated and in a different bracket but you -- there seems to be a lot. people working in the coal industry in west virginia but

they have long-term jobs. you have 20 year bear markets. when you are 22 years old and you are out. you don't sue the bank for that. you can't just lawyer up like you are saying and these people say you are the same person. >> there are not a lot of issues -- the way they treat employees is awful. where you in the front office or mid officer back office? in the mid-office and the front office, they treat the back office like crap. it is not a nice industry. >> i am a journalist in a perilous industry to be in.

i think the main privilege is connection and belonging. if i got laid off and there were no jobs in journalism there are people with money, with other things who i could turn to and try to land on my feet and that is a lot harder when everybody you know is in that town and they all lost a job. >> my banking experience was at the very top. a very elite group and nasty group. >> over on this side. upfront here. >> michael lee, sir. what most surprised you about interactions with people you talked with, your experience. what would you say? >> the openness. honestly, don't go and do what

i did necessarily because -- most of my time in african-american -- don't ever try to rob me. don't take anything from me. nobody ever. i was walking around with a $5,000 camera a little scruffier than this, a $5,000 camera and drug houses at 2:00 in the morning. i walked in at 3:00 in the morning on a lark because somebody said i should go there and nothing bad happened. people treated me -- i remember once, and it is different for females. entirely different world out there but in terms of the safety issue and the trust, there is a woman by the name of

millie who i met on the street at 2:00 in the morning, a sex worker. back to your thing where people, i wrote it down in my old notes. three years later she passed away and i located her body. if you die in new york without paper and the worst things in the world. a lot of irish are there. 1 million people are buried there, since 1865. they put you in a trench and bury you. she died and over six months, she is vx 66 in the bronx at that time.

through this whole process of getting her exhumed and properly buried i learned a lot about her past. i don't dig into people's past unless to get body exhumed and it was fascinating to me. after this happened everything she told me, a complete stranger about her life, was right. when i fact checked it it was spot on. she didn't lie, didn't exaggerate. and it wasn't something to be proud of. the aggregate, not necessarily. that has been the us paradox.

the north is an aggregate, friendly, individually, the south is individually friendly and aggregate. >> microphone is right behind you. >> my name is kelly. i am wondering are you still traveling to interview people? my second question is have you ever found the one from the community who found a way out and followed them in their life? i'm curious what you said about not having the right language to fit in with the front row. >> i know people in my past life as a banker who have done that, played the long odds and succeeded but on the streets, after three years in the bronx when i was focusing there i

wrote a piece, the lesson learned was nobody got out. there was no happy ending. michelle is in jail. i got text messages, beauty is doing whatever beauty does. shelley and ramon are living in a van somewhere. at the lowest of the low -- i was looking at the lowest of the low. one of the things that is uncomfortable to me to think about is why do some people succeed and some don't? some people just make it out and you meet them, there is a young girl i met in church who i'm pretty sure will make it out. i am sure she will. you just can tell at 7 or 8 she

was going to leap every hurdle, do what she needed to do to get out and when i met people like that on wall street who came from nothing and succeeded they themselves can't really say. i knew at 4 that i wanted to do blank. i don't know what that is, if it is teachable or whatever but to the question as i'm still doing it i have been taking a break from the us, doing this in foreign countries without a camera. with no real goal other than to see intellectually. >> the talk about getting out reminds me of a conversation i had from prince george's county and he has this horrible almost

self contradiction, the people who are showing up in his community will be most engaged, most likely to god and actively love their neighbor and care about their place and to some extent where he is from, success is getting out. imagine that perspective from the past. he is there for life. he doesn't want that brightest girl to get out. he wants her to then be a leader in that community but caring about her individually, he does want her to get out and isn't that this horrible paradox we are in? in 1960, that girl is more likely to stay and be the principle of the public school and if she is going to do anything worth her talent and

energy it is going to be getting out. >> when people ask, and they do ask my advice when i talk to people i always tell people if they want to leave, leave. go to college if you will go to college, even though i don't necessarily want to see that it is not my place to tell someone not to do what i did. if you do go to college don't get into debt. do it on the cheap, to pell grants, do scholarships, but people are going to want to leave and you can't stop them. >> we are selling copies, chris will find them but i want to thank you for doing this work. at the beginning i am a

christian, catholic and our duty is to love our neighbor and care for the least of these and i think the book you've done is a great example. and thank chris for joining us. [applause] >> here to talk - >> tonight on booktv in prime time you will see programs, many democratic candidates running for the presidential nomination. donald trump junior argues the left is using political correctness to silence conservatives. stephen baker talks about the future of transportation. financial times columnist

argues large tech companies are failing to keep consumer data secure and new york university professor charlton magdalena looks at the impact of social media and the internet on racial justice movements. that starts at 7:00 pm eastern on c-span2's booktv. check your program guide or visit booktv.org for more information. >> we are just going to get started. good evening and welcome. i am with the metropolitan planning council. the policy change organization aims to create a better, bolder, more equitable region. as a former community organizer study the rise and fall