several books like that, about roosevelt on his trip to the amazon and another book about garfield. those are great books. but they're also very entertaining. >> we want to hear what you're reading. send your list via social media at book tv. tonight we are really thrilled to have our panel of four here, including our author charles barber and instead of listening to me talk, we're just going to get started. first up is ivan -- [applause] >> it's nice to be here in new haven. i run a criminal justice research agency division -- well, unit for the state of connecticut. >> excuse me? >> a little louder.

>> okay, thank you. >> thank you. >> i run a small research unit that's dedicated to understanding the criminal justice system in the state of connecticut. i work for the office of policy and management, and one of my responsibilities is to look hard at the prison system, and every year we produce recidivism studies and other studies related to people coming out of connecticut prisons over time. and i've been doing these studies for about ten years for the state of connecticut, and one thing that i have kind of come to accept working in criminal justice is it's an area which doesn't prepare people to see a lot of good news. most of the outcomes are generally not so good. so in terms of recidivism in connecticut, sort of for the three-year period following an incarceration in connecticut, about 60% of the people that come out of prison are rearrested.

among people under the age of 25, it is about 72%. those aren't good numbers. in terms of risk and outcomes, in terms of mortality and other things, people coming out of the criminal justice system the end to do a lot worse. i'm not going to go into detail, but, for example, we just looked at a study of young men between the ages of 20 and 40, who came out of prison, and among black men, who came out of prison and died within five years, 65% died of homicide. among white men, the same age group, they died of drug overdoses, the same rates. so there's something really kind of devastating that's taking place among people that get criminal justice involved. and when you work in this area, you don't expect that the system operates particularly well. so i'm happy to be here tonight because i'm fortunate to see sort of one of the nice things that have happened, the positive

turnaround. i've seen a lot of very private and individual successes among people who have been incarcerated and have turned their lives around. it's nice to get sort of an example where the public can see that people can really change and redeem themselves and begin to give back to the community. so i'm very happy to be here today. about four years ago, i had known william because of my interest in gun violence and other things in connecticut cities. and i was aware of his story. and i also knew charles -- charlie barber because as a director of the connection, he and i had met over a recidivism study i was working on relating to sex offenders. it just so happened that at the time mr. outlaw wanted to tell his story. and i thought it was a very good story to tell. he asked me if i could write it, and i said i'm not the guy. you know, you know, i can write, but i'm not the guy. but i thought i knew the guy, and so i introduced him to

charlie barber, and i said why don't you guys just sit down and talk, and i will just leave, and if anything comes from this, i will be happy. so i'm happy today because there's a book. and i feel it's really my little contribution to it. i was able to do something quite good, and for those of you that don't know william outlaw, he was -- he has a fearsome reputation in the history of connecticut department of correction both in law enforcement both in new haven and statewide. back in 80s he ran a gang that was known as the jungle boys that was very effective and sort of dominant in the drug market in new haven. and at the time, you know, what was happening in new haven was happening across the country. and june boy was sentenced to 85 years for his participation in a homicide and other crimes,

related to the drug market in new haven having to do with jamaican gangs that had started out in new york city and had come up to new haven, so he got an 85-year sentence that was reduced on appeal to 21 years. in those 21 years, he cycled through what at the time was the worst prison in connecticut, osbourne, which at the time was one of the most dangerous prisons in the country. then he cycled through all the tiers of the prison system. while he was there, he got to see sort of the worst of the worst of what incarceration brings and what the population can -- how it exists and who the people are there. after he was released, he came back to new haven, got a telephone and was able to against all odds really get a job at dunkin donuts and begin a process of rehabilitation. i became aware of his work because i've been tracking gun violence for 15 to 20 years. and one of the most effective

things i have seen are community outreach workers that are actually embedded in the community who have a reputation and can go out and understand and diffuse the violence that often that affects specific neighborhoods in the state of connecticut. this is really his story. it's come to light because of the other side of the story which is charlie barber, he's a lecturer in psychiatry at yale. he's the author of two books and he's the director of connection institute. which is a criminal justice research organization. he's also a fabulous writer and is going to get up now and do a reading, and i hope you enjoy and learn something tonight. thank you. [applause] >> hi, everybody. thanks for coming out on a rainy wednesday night in new haven. everybody can hear me well? sounds good?

so ivan set it up beautifully, he introduced william and i five years ago, and i was a little scared of william when i first met him, but we have become -- we have become good friends and excellent collaboration and we're very thrilled this book came out two weeks ago and is getting quite a lot of attention. so i'm going to read a new haven passage and then turn it over to william and his boss who is also here. the book is kind of a third, a third, a third, it is william's growing up in the housing projects of new haven which were pretty rough and getting involved in running a major -- corunning a major gang called the jungle boys in new haven in a housing project and then a very long stretch in prison. the passage i'm going to read now is sort of one of the turning points. it is not a turning point for william. it is a turning point for

700,000 people a year who are released from prisons and jails in the united states. this is the moment of his release. i'm going to read a few passages from a chapter that's simply called "return", and this occurs in the spring of 2008, 11 years ago, a day of william's release. he's about 40 years old. he's been in prison since he was 19. most of his life has now been in prison. by the way, i calculated it, he was if 23 prisons -- he was in 23 prisons, some of them for only one night. six prisons primarily, and he was so in the connecticut prison that he was woken up one day and sent to federal prisons in california, kansas, and pennsylvania, and then returned to connecticut and this is the moment of his release from

connecticut prison in 2008. return, chapter 7, the long nightmare was over. it is 6:00 on a late spring morning in 2008, outlaw left his prison cell for the final time. as he walked down the corridors to the front gate of the prison, the guards were cordial. they didn't say what he had heard them say many times to departing prisoners, see you later or we'll keep the lights on for you. they simply said with what appeared to be sincerity good luck. before he left the compound, however, they put him in leg and arm shackles one last time. he was transferred to the custody of a department of correction patrol officer who was -- parole officer who was going to drive him to new haven. when william outlaw finally exited the prison doors, the first thing he saw was a maple tree 20 feet away. its leaves were fresh and clean in the sun, and the grass below the tree was saturated with a heavy dew. as he stepped forward tentatively on to grounds outside of the prison for the first time in decades, outlaw

could not quite fathom what was actually happening. by this time, he had been incarcerated for more than half his life. his jungle boys career, that's the name of the gang, by contrast had only lasted three and a half years. the fact that he was outside of prison was in itself astonishing. had it not been for his appeal, he would be in some other prison for another 60 years. :: ::

>> the highest risk was in the first year. almost 40 percent of offenders were rearrested in the first romans. but i walked in and of the northbridge and within two weeks of release, the risk of death, from homicide and suicide overdose, among released prisoners was 13 times higher than the general public. outlaw felt confident about the changes he had made but improved anything to anyone yet. many people he knew, were expecting him to fail. he had known many former prisoners who had cropped up after they got out. either committed crimes just to be sent back. they preferred the world they knew, it's often been called free cause. no matter how bad that structure was, to an outside world that

was no alien. as the officer drove the man into suburbia, a lot saw sprawling new big-box stores. target, decks, bed bath and beyond, each half of the size of a city block. he had never seen standalone source of such dimensions before. nor did he recognize the names of the retailers. but outlaw remembered was empty fields were now entire fields and homes. >> the cars were smaller than he remembered. and the traffic seemed far heavier than it used to be. the man passed through the swampy area north of new haven. elma had always found a section on the highway depressing as if a piece of new jersey medical land, and some have been transported to the middle of connecticut. it was almost reassuring that this area was absolutely unchanged to him. just as ugly and toxic looking

as it had been in 1988, the last time he had seen it. as they approached the city, and what could make up the small skyscrapers, that comprised downtown and he felt a snap of anxiety in his chest. lots of things would be waiting for him. he knew the whole town would be waiting to see if he had survived. a lot of people would be expecting perhaps or hoping, that he had failed. and some of the people he victimize, or their families, might be planning a retaliation. others he knew would want him to start up the gang again. looking to get on the gravy train. once downtown, the van merged onto interstate 95, hugging long island, ella saw the yellow rise amid the cityscape. he could see clemson news of the harbor between the buildings. in glimpses of son reflecting in the water. how long he had dreamt of this moment. home at last. i am going to skip ahead a

couple of pages. things kind of goat great for the first few days. as a reading with his family, and is very well received. everybody in town still knows him, but then something happens and you can't sleep. and when i say can't sleep, he explained to me that he didn't sleep for nine days. after the first few days. i will read a little bit about that. five days later, out late at well labored. this is been in the house halfway house. the mattress cytomel and is feet protruded to the end. it was raining outside, the spring rains of new england that could go on for days. he pushed the low down over his ears to try to block out the world. at first the lack of sleep was almost a good thing. elma was so amazed that he was out of prison that he believed that he shut his eyes and he would wake back up in lewisburg or heaven with red california

and kids' and pennsylvania that's where he was at. >> he was overstimulated by all of the sounds and sights. it was actually hard to decades of routine. that prison had instilled that in him. and decide for himself now when he went to you into his room at night what he wanted to watch on television. it was overwhelming. as much as he tried, he still couldn't sleep but in for half hour. by the fifth a, he was seeing and hearing things that were there are at least they thought were there. the images didn't even make sense. visions, molecules in air, or birds exploding in abilify. it felt like a psychedelic drug experience. one last passage. the way a halfway house works and is only a couple miles from here, there's a two week period of orientation then you're allowed to go look for jobs in the street. william is aloud now, after two

weeks of being in the house to go back out on the streets in new haven that he hasn't been on for 25 years. so he is walking out of the house. when he king downstairs and looked at the kitchen glendale, he saw that the sun was yellow gold in the sky was clear and flawless blue. the end of the day was excellent and fair. and is finally guidance simply by the way. six days after that first intoxicating night of sleep, outlaw advances orientation. and he did not walk freely in the city sidewalks and more than 20 years. not since he had given himself up. in the new haven police station. he found himself walking several blocks from walter brooks, this halfway house to new haven. space stretched out. he can see four or five or six blocks ahead as he walked. this is about what has made him anxious. the widest expense he had experience in the last two decades was the prison yard. as he crossed the street a car

almost hit him. believe you the driver screamed. he thought he could to stop. in note 1 foot after the other and then another, keep on walking. he found a bench and sat down. he had not intended to go to the grade. there was not a business on the brain which is the central and most corporate business area and new haven. they would even consider hiring a just released balance. it was as if he had no control over its destination. his body if he had just taken over. and they led him to working asset. he remained in the grade for three hours. he wants to city buses, he was the in suits brushing to banks and restaurants. he watched the homeless people. outlaw looked at the pigeons in the discarded newspapers blowing the wind and he saw how people cut their hair, how different the styles work there in the 1980s, he heard the music and passing cars, also completely foreign to him. he watched the traffic. and extending the amount of

space the drivers give themselves when driving behind the car ahead of them. it was like he was experiencing things for the first time. everything was different. the part in new haven that had a change, they historically campus a yell, the future course the 1980s, they didn't match his memory of them. it all seemed like a drug trip out of the movie in love so long ago, once upon a time in america. his life and the rise and fall of it, had turned out to be exactly what the film. the whole trajectory had transpired just the way somewhere deep inside he thought it might. and from that moment in 1993 when which he had pulled up in his portion asked him to do books for him. i was out there. i will introduce, just fast-forward to 11 years later, william about a year after this experience of release from prison, got a job at dunkin' donuts which he loved. and then shortly thereafter, he got a job as a street outreach

worker which he referred to in the beginning, where william and other colleagues of his work for felons and used, they were to do outreach to kids new haven and the neighborhoods william and his colleagues. basically saying don't do what i did. i am here to tell you that is a consequence go to prison. william and jacob now run the connecticut into violence project rate is dedicated to protection of gun violence. leonard has become a good friend of mine. he's also important part of the book pretty broken new haven, and what is the chief probation officer for the state. and as the executive director of this gun intervention violence

project. [applause]. >> good evening. i'm going to start 2008. the police chief i was at the time of chief probation officer. in a private meeting, is a nonprofit. one thing that we were talking about. there's a panic. how is new haven going to react to jim blood coming out. he said i got it. a few weeks after that, we had a neighborhood meeting. he was at the meeting. he presented some of the folks who were getting up after him. he talked. he did talk about the money they made or grandiose this is image

was or is reputation pretty talked about redemption. how he wanted to be redeemer. we have this streets that one time he had destroyed. i was impressed by that. some of the speakers, they got up and had a lot of grandiose. immediately, respect. and we formed a friendship. i took over street street office program. last year, i talked to william about going out on our own and forming an agency to form an intervention program. i said we need to do it. and he said let's do it. starbucks. so we went out on a dream. we got the sand.

william, i talked about the redemption but also decide to make the school street outreach, you have to have a credible messenger. and he was. he is honest, insincere, he shows a lot of empathy, and a lot of emotion as you can see. he is definitely an emotional person. very few times that he does mediations. and he is my chief mediator for the program. in a doesn't get emotional. i talked to young men and women. he gives them a hug. he also sheds a tear with them. our program, we have weekly meetings and i look forward to meeting so much, because of his humor and his legacy can be, the boisterous laugh that he has. he is so passionate. in a sub patient with young men and women. on the way here, i received a call from foster care agency and

they asked me if i knew william. and i said yes of course. i told him his desperate and they said this young man returning to new haven, and the person that he keep talking about that could be really be the dealbreaker, whether he had success on the streets, was william outlaw. and the support that he can receive from him. this young man, possessing everybody will light up in the room. especially by his nickname. i did mention the young man to william's fiancé. and she said please do not talk to bump up the sandman. i think i know the answers would be. i think this young man will be successful. but he did say i know if i will him in my life, and i'm not putting any pressure on you, but if i can say with volume, i know that i do not get in any more trouble. that's just credit to his

commitment, and his conviction. to not only that young man but every win that he touched in the city of new haven. he definitely does not do this work for the money. i will say that. none of us do. but i am just happy that he is here. he uses his sense of humor and such right way. to not only people he serves but our collaborators and with everyone. he touches and even with the book. at this time, i will announce everyone, mr. william outlaw. [applause]. >> good evening everyone. i want to thank everyone for

coming on this rainy day. those of you who are here, it means a lot to me. william: a lot of new people here don't really know me. [background sounds] william: first i want you to know with these kids are close to my heart. they bring me joy.

i know you were waiting for me to get here. i grew up with the sky. i told him that i was coming to the community group. he told me what he was going to do. that would mean a lot to me. i sat there, i was watching everyone trickling in. i got in the front row. another one of my friends, my two boys, that understand the enemy. his heart felt that the chemo partner. they're doing what they are supposed to do. they have not been bad.

we talk and everything. they always have my back. they always have my back. my partner man, my right-hand man. sitting right here. thirty-one your slats. it seemed like everything is coming together now. he is finding his way. i am so glad he is here. he is finding his way after 30 years. i am still finding my way.

it is not easy. if you've never been in a situation like this you can never understand that. it is really not easy. it is not easy work. when you have some bad situations like that and treated things that we go through. we go through a lot of untreated trauma. and my mother, i'm on an emotional roller coaster right now. there are things that are happening in my life, last week we opened our own program. this is wonderful. like i said, and emotional relevant roller coaster. one guy does good and one guy does bed. guys in the hospital. she just knows what people report back to her.

i would like to make my mom proud. ivan, we met and had a great conversation. he said i should write something and i told him i can't write. don't let the bow tie and all that full you man. and ivan, greg i. a really good man. a very good man. he is very charming. and you know me. i am a street guy first. i am definitely a challenge. [laughter]. i wanted to know all i could about him. so i asked around, looked

around, review of the book. i didn't think he could pull this off. he was coming around and beyond. we worked in the book for five years. a lot of people didn't believe me. family friends, kept telling them. i kept telling them i was going to write a book. they didn't believe me. i said globally. we worked on for five years. my own family and friends. they said ain't you ain't right in the book. it's not i think didn't believe but they didn't see it. now they say i see everything. somebody else has to tell them. now we are in a technology world.

we work for an agency and we took the program. and were going to do what we say we are going to do. were going to do it for the kids. were going to try to help in any area we can not just for the kids but help in any area we can to stop violence. going to work with the police now. i tell all my kids, anybody, incarceration, when you change, you don't give an f about what anybody else thinks. you don't care what nobody thinks about it. you get on the side, you not going to kill anybody. what you think about me.

you don't care what people think about you. when you change, you don't care what people think about you. it took me a long time to get there. in my present experience, i was in the way of punishment. they transfer me out-of-print punishment. five of us of the end of the day. we brought him back in a body bag. very vicious at that time. we just sat there. we believed that somebody just has to be killed. yet to be strong to survive that. nobody in this room can experience that. unless you're in that situation, you just don't understand.

serious trauma. i have to live with that every day. on the inside of me writing this book, he was digging up so many words and so much stuff was coming out, i need to find me a good psychologist. i think that book was a blessing to me. the dog in their and i am trying to still get this out everyday. this is very serious. especially african-american men. [inaudible conversation] the most powerful thing that i am so proud of the state is on every thursday for ten years, from 5:00 o'clock to 630, is the

group. for ten years i've been coming to this group. some people are there for five years and seven years and they are still coming. every thursday. 5:00 o'clock to 630. some are doing better than me. we can when we share. i am so proud of that group. some don't understand it. if i didn't have my psychologist, i don't know where i would be. i lost my mind. you never know what mental health care as you need. the thank god for that group. my family. i'm with the beautiful young lady right now. she's telling maybe she could marry. she is my rock man. without her sundays would be so

hard. somebody delete that's what you call soulmate. i keep telling her thank you for being so patient with me. my time is always shared with other people. but i need her. and last but not least, i know you want to get to q&a. i met mckay when he was four years old. every kid this year every year, this kid makes the honor roll.

he's a really smart kid. [inaudible conversation] is my stepson. that is another good thing. i never hear from my own kids. all these years. i know god place them in my life. now i have a six year old son. and he is autistic. mckay was my first interaction with fatherhood. that was big. a lot of people don't understand that. i wanted to be a father's event. but my kids are grown now. i wanted to take my kids up from school. i never got to do that. and i get to do that with mckay.

i want this book to be able to touch people across america. every use, criminal justice biases, when i king out of prison, the assessment said i would die or return prison. that's the assessment that they got. it's based on your criminal activity. the way you acting in jail. based on your phone calls. based on finding the streets and all that. this is assessment and you failed. i know in my mind, that it wasn't going back to the street. i know in my mind i wasn't going to hurt another human being. do that. i made that promise to god. so i did that. i knew the change was well

within me. i know the criminal justice system had a lot of bias. i want to change. i want to help reform. and i want this book to help a lot of things. it is a real dialogue. when do people really think when they can't get a job. when is a person change. a lot of us do change. in some don't but the statement will always be there. i'm going to be the front runner of this. i want to be an example in my work and my actions and my deeds. the same just book. you could share with young people. you did share with the law enforcement. especially in colleges.

sometimes people just think they know what you're going through. this book is a lot of dialogue. i know a lot of people in the city. i am crying, tears are coming out rate one thing i don't know, but i forget. i don't forget. you people have showed up and you are showing me that you haven't forgotten me. i don't forget. the people that showed up here tonight, you are showing me, your summary respect. having so much to me. you just about. thank you. [applause].

[background sounds] [background sounds] >> i'm sure a lot of you have a lot of questions. >> my question is well. have a two-part question. you talk about mental health,

talk about untreated, and you're currently seeing a therapist. my question is how did you go, what was this transition in your mental state like when he went from being a big-name industry, to the transitioning to present to be in number. then coming back out and having to redefine who you work. the second part of that question is you talk about redemption which is commendable and were extremely proud of you it at will point was your aha moment when he said, you know what this is not who i am and this is so i want to be. william: the all hope moment was about 12 years ago, while actually eight years. there is a situation in my book, when i'm daughter was in

catholic school. and her grandmother had custody of her. i got a call home and they wanted to take her out of catholic school and put her in public school. and i told her it's a better system in catholic school. she said to me, dad, did you finish school. and at the time i didn't even have a ged. and i drove down on the phone. for about 15 minutes. i just hung up. i staggered back to myself that i laid in bed the next day i got up and went to school and the school went over to the library and took the ged folks and i had my ged in four months. and that will thirst for the education right there, the light went off for my education first king through. every program, everything, i

started learning. that was one of the things for the turning points. my education. frank james, he told me, you are a good dude man. all of those other fools inherent in not going to get a chance. you can do it. back to back, those on my turning points. i thought about the living in the streets, i was yelling. i had a lot of money. a lot of money. it was a nightmare to me. i got the body and then i went to jail when they took me up north. and here i years old. $700,000 on me. city of new haven county but these whites officers.

there acting like the one problem with me. and i am here for a problem. that was my attitude. and change the culture there. i changed it. that was the first time i really experienced racism. i thought these people were making me dig deep into me against you. it wasn't nice there for me. and for years, the transfer me out. and i went to the federal case i got transferred out. and then i went to the state of connecticut. i killed somebody. in the police and assist, they

had fear and. [inaudible conversation] you can ever imagine. >> i've a question for volume and charlie. william, you mentioned you have this book to start a dialogue. what do you want college students and professors to get out of this book. william: students, to be honest with you, about white students. i want them to take away the biases. from the grandmother and grandfather, generations back.

their theories didn't work. you are young you're saying this, you read this book. i'm not saying disrespect your friends, but they don't know about the modern day period. that's not okay. so i like that young college kids to remove their biases. they're going to be lawyers and doctors or whatever, remove your biases. do you job because of your skin color, but because the job. remove your biases. ivan: i think volume and i met her five years weekly. we have a deep understanding of the principle that he king from in terms of their early childhood, and the public as a which was brutal. the public education system in new haven at the time.

not to excuse any of his behavior but to understand the structures that he was born into. as ivan said, if we had grown up in different circumstances, who knows where i would be. i think he would be a republican. i think you said. i hope the students can understand especially in this era of such divisiveness, and curiosity about the other house. hopefully readers can understand how it was such a talented guy is willing got where he got. and now we got where he got. the book is the process of his life. if i can convey the depths of experience and feeling behind that, then i will be successful. william: i am so sorry, when i speak in

public, i always first of all say there were some victims. i am deeply remorseful and i had to deal with that there is my love. that should've been the first thing that king out of my mouth. my regret for that, is always the forefront. please understand that. it is not forgotten in my life. please understand that. that is not acceptable with me. where i met my life now. [background sounds] >> congratulations to all four of you for putting this book and

project together. there's been anything going around of banned books even in prison systems. the new jim crow, do you think your book will farewell in the system. around the country as well. ivan: the books that prisoners are allowed are sprayed. at least in the state of connecticut by a panelist of screeners. normally with a do is they screen them for excessive violence, hard-core pornography, exploitation of content. several years ago, there was a book by wai way who works for the connecticut prisons to written about a young woman but a very problematic childhood. and sexually assaulting and that

was the book. in the band. as man in state prisons. at the library, one day maybe said they had a lot of the book. it created a firestorm. i don't think there is any problems with books like michelle alexander books coming into the prison systems. i think that the prison systems in the books that are allowed in, are sprayed by people are not like. william: like william. ivan: went to the prison system in connecticut since willing brother, the prison system is a lot more more minority representation now there was. there was an event in the state

of connecticut. so the condition has changed considerably in terms of the policy. there now women ceos and men's prisons and vice versa. there's a lot more diversity among separated emmys this kind of issues, there were so start back in the 80s, can't exist anymore because now the relationship just among the guys wearing blue regardless of what color the generous because they see themselves as sort of one side and offenders on the other. so there's a different dynamic now. la said think in connecticut. as not to say a failed system. i worked quite a bit there has been a lot of time in prison. what i have come away with is that everyone experienced was a prisons work hard and is different. as far as percentagewise, the

people who actually make the decisions, on the books, i appreciate the diversity that you're saying but who actually make the decisions on which books will be allowed in and so forth and so on. he went i can't speak to the ethnic to city of the panelists who swing books. i would think whoever's on the panel, there has to be some representation pritikin imagine and don't hold me to my word, not on that panel. the books will be screened because of their political ideological content. william: i have sent some books to the present. for the people that i sent for the books too, although i find for god. was it was they told that they

could. >> one last question. as far as like what you mentioned from you by your ged, and some prisons across the country is been sort of like to come back, even in the libraries for the scholarship varies. william: education is a must. it's a must that you have some type of education in the prison. among inmates, you must that you get an education for filtered out. they have to get some kind of education. it is really pushed in the federal system. every time something went to the beds, then go you got lucky.

usp. that means united states penitentiary. a level five or six. if your hair. [inaudible conversation] federal cases to sei. 75 percent. >> i love you questions about the library system and the prison system. a lot of things that turned william's life around. one of them was the library system. by virtue of being in the federal system, federal library system was described by me in summer. he couldn't request about to get it within two or three days. this was after he got his ged. this was really his

self-education process. to just give one example, he was in london with which was then work notorious prison in kids', was in solitary for nine months. when he got out of solitary, he went to the library. got a book on the history of leavenworth. in been a bestseller the year before. which he educated himself about solitary and leavenworth. and how leavenworth worked and he really was running leavenworth. you can read about it in the book. the funny thing about that is one of the blurbs from our book his feet. something news king full circle. i love your questions about the library system. that is becoming an education educated person as bullying has described to me which is really the fundamental turnaround. >> dew point, i am proud of you.

congratulations. i met a jew boy inside of the walls. in the beginning we wasn't good friends. at the time prison was filled up. he had the side-by-side but when it was all said that, we we ended up being good friends. and it is a blessing to be here seeing him do this. i'm very hot of him. don't look back man. it wasn't nice there. we survived. continue what you are doing there. i am very proud of you. >> william, two-point of the corrections, what is the first thing you do. william: i would revamp the education

department. in prison, education is first. in society for us is poverty. i would revamp the education department. i would start there. i would have more latino and black teachers. i would try more diversity. i would take six months off your time if you get an education. if they take time off, there's a garbage can. there's a shank over there, make the most of your time.

you got to figure that out. and if you do that a few times, you get a year knocked off. if there is a knife over there and he's goes and gets it, then he removes the center and 20 days. i say take that same system and make it work in reverse. you gotta give him incentive. once she gets that ged, now he can throw the ball. think about going to college. maybe wants to be a carpenter or a plumber. in the dialogue changes. i didn't have no education. i sat there in the first truck, stumps. the only thing that i knew was

rejection. so i went back and took a dictionary and so that every word that they say, i wrote it down and then i went back and studied the words. they were doing all types of stuff. they were uneducated. that is the first thing i would do. ivan: any more questions. >> as far as you know, kind of deals were going on behind closed doors. as far as prosecutor or

whatever. william: i went to try to fight in a loss. from 1988, until 1992, i was in prison. i was 19 and 20 years old. i didn't think i was ever going to come out. by the grace of god i sit here. i am here by the grace of god. but i say this for those four years, 88 to 92, i was losing my mind. literally, i couldn't sleep at night. when you go in that cell, you can cry all night. you have all of that time to think about things like a plan of escape. i had a map of the place. i'm not looking for nobody.

the mentality those four years, i didn't like myself. i was in a situation where i didn't know every day when it was night do when it king out of the cell. you never going home. every time i would get out, i would be told you're going to die here. in the soft envelope on my bed and i thought it was mailed. i was excited but no it wasn't his said he going to die here. so this for years i thought about escaping and then dreaming about going all of the world. it was devastated everyday. ivan: how much did you end up paying aware before going to jail. william: i respect for the lawyer.

i respect my lord. i'm going to say this. the only office, in 1987, and youth price for for press, murder trial new ended up. yet the prices of. my thing is, nobody said anything. where did he get the money from. nobody asked. they know but i didn't get it for my mama or my dad. nobody asked that question. read the book. there's a lot of history that.

>> don't be scared to ask questions. >> i've questions in regard to present reform. what do you think needs to be done in prison reforms now prayed. william: first i will play something. prison reform is a new fancy work. three years ago it was reentry. the government get a lot of money. now they're going to get a lot of money for prison reform right. most prison reform, was like me

and looks like you. let people black. a lot of money being made. i think that prison reform but this time the century, we are going to shed light on it. there will be a conversation. i would make people come out of prison and make them better people. and as a community. you as a community member. what do you want it to look like. do you want them to come home without this and that. let's hear from the community. it's not always the best. people in power, i think they need to be heard from all frames of community. all people. [inaudible conversation] we want a prison reform that is

working effective. >> i think what you're saying william news and the people on the part of the system, everybody was part of the system as a dialogue. it is an open dialogue with everybody's perspective. so i would like to thank everybody for coming out of this raining wednesday night in new haven. my guess is it is still raining outside. and we will be signing books. we would like to thank cspan2 for coming out. .-ellipsis .-ellipsis .-ellipsis beginning at 8:30 p.m., there are three programs a look at doctor kings politics in the last hours of his life. find more schedule information

in your program guide. >> at a recent talk at miami university in hamilton ohio, former ohio governor and 2016 republican presidential candidate john kasich argued that solutions to americans problems need to come from the bottom up. >> most politicians, listen to us. and i am going to give you a couple of examples. the civil rights movement. you think they passed the civil rights laws on their own? martin luther king went to see jon kennedy, and kennedy he left the white house and said kennedy didn't care. he was really upset about it. what happened over time, because of king and some of the people i have mentioned, people began to see we needed justice. and the pressure came from the

bottom up. the marches, the gassing, the dog biting's, the jailing. it did not square with us as free people. we wanted justice. and we demanded justice and the politicians, ultimately after a decade-long struggle, began to pass the laws. women's suffrage, do you think those guys wanted to give you your power? they did not. you think about how long it took for women to get the right to vote. and if you were an african-american, you had to wait even longer to get the right to vote, because you were not favored. and how'd it happen? we demanded it from the bottom up. i am convinced that if we hadn't had the protest on our college campuses, we would still be in vietnam today. they would have some reason as to why we would still be

there. it got ended by the students and adults who said enough of this. and the same is going to be true about environmental awareness. and some is going to be the sam same. when i was governor i tried to pass this law, and want you to think about this. this loss said, that if somebody in the workplace was a threat to fellow workers, or they were a threat to students on college campus, that there would be a judicial proceeding, along with input from law enforcement, and the gun would be taken away from somebody who was unstable. to get it back, whenever they were stabilized. that is going to become law. it's going to take a long time. and people are going to demand it. we are getting tired of this. and it will only happen when

it comes like this. so folks, a couple of things. join a movement, start a movement, give somebody a hug, put yourself in somebody else's shoes, have a smile on your face, be patient, get out of your silo, and this is what is going to heal our country. because the great news is we are in charge, not them. we are in charge. if we come together, all across this country, and i speak all across this country. people are hungry for this, they just want to know what to do. you don't have to climb mount everest, you don't have to be greta thune berg, you don't have to do all of these magnificent things. martin luther king said if you can't do great things, do little things in a great way. together we can end the fighting and vitriol, and we can start to do the things we want out of our government and in our communities that will allow us to have a healthier

and a more together nation, neighborhood, and family. >> to watch the rest of this program, visit our website booktv.org and search for john kasich or his book title it's up to us. use the search brought box of the top of the page. >> we have a lot of things in common. this is a very interesting opportunity to speak about bret refugees and i know a little about it and thought i knew about everything. before start talking about we are going to get into an unexplored history and soh