pick the lock. and not just surface, how do you actually translate that into an idea and into a solution that is not just going to help that business but that is also going to change what is possible for that person so they can stay one step ahead. that's the optimist in me. >> thank you so much for coming. [applause] >> booktv covers become fairs and festivals around the country, and here's a look at what i is coming up. live at the savannah book festival in georgia in two weeks as well as the tyson festival -- tucson festival of book and the new orleans book festival to tulane university and the virginia festival of the back at charlottesville. to watch our previous festival

coverage click the book fairs tab on or website, booktv.org. >> good evening. >> good evening. >> all right. that's a good detroit response for c-span. minimills peater hammer, professor of law and i direct the center for civil rights at wayne state university law school and public you. the key center we take seriously the proposition that structural racism irour generation's civil rights challenge and the story wed have here provide a personal narrative of what i meaned to be living in a city dom nighted with effect of spatial structural racism if want to give a shoutout to the major program in the key center, the detroit equity option lab or the deal. we are into bit the wk kellogg foundation. just ended our fourth cohort which we're celebrating, announcing our fifth cohort but as a capacity building and fellowship building program that takes to or 30 individuals working at organizations defend

indicated to racial he can with and takes a year,-long process to develop skills, teach lessons, biffle trust and fell lowship that enables a better collaboration and advancing racial equity. our order' partner is pages book store and introduce susan measure fry from pages book store -- measure fry from pages book story. >> thank you for coming. i guess i'm -- i own pages book shop in grand river in, and we'e so happy to be here tonight and have jodie talk about the book. if you have moved to read the book, it's easy read. i think because it's so engaging with the characters in the book. jodie is a research prefer at the new york university, previously on the law faculty at cambridge university. she also teaches bankruptcy law

at columbia law. saying law a lot. elected member of the american law institute, past term member of the council or fern relations and technicalled a series for the bank for international set little.s. searched a grant from the decrees ski foundation to -- decrees key -- decrees key foundation. she served as the deputy director of the cambridge llm program, the deputy director of the cambridge center of corporate and commercial law and as a fellow of peter health college. received their junior great degree from harvard university graduate degrees in law and journalism from columbia university. lives in new york city currently. she'll be joined today with steven henderson, our local

pulitzer prize winning journalist, and also the host of detroit today. we may have a couple other guests join up here on the panel discussion, with two profiles in the book by jodie and we'll escort them in when they arrive. we're going to have jodie start off, she's going to talk about the book and do a little bit of a reading, and then there will be conversation with steven and then they'll open it up to questions and answers. so with that i'm going to hand this microphone -- you don't need it. i'm going to give it to steven. >> thank you so much for being here. i am excited and also have some trepidation about discussing this book for you. this is your city, this is what you have lived, and i am eager to hear your responses and hope that we can have as much time for a conversation as possible. so i am going to keep my remarks

to a minimum for that and what i just like to do is, this is book that follows seven people living in detroit, during and after the city's bankruptcy. it's not a book about downtown, it's not a book about mid-town where we are. it's about the neighborhoods where the seven people live, and i'd also point out the time period the book is in, its end inside the fall of 2018, so i am aware there have been some changes in the years since then. so what i'd like to do is introduce you to the seven people in the book, two of them just arrived and i'm glad to see you both. and then quickly read you a very short two page passage and then go ahead and begin to talk about it. so, charles and miles from the book are here. do you want to introduce yourselves? >> yes.

>> i'll do it. you stay there. speak into the mic. >> i'm charles. >> i'm steven miles. >> do you want to say anymore? i don't want to talk about you in your presence. >> not yet. >> correct me if you don't like any of this but charles is a life-long detroiter. his family moved here from the south during the great migration. made it in the car industry, bought a house in morningside that was a real achievement for them. charles has watched his block change a lot since then, at the time of the book eight of 16 houses are occupied and you have wondered whether you want to stay in detroit.

>> actually it's not but staying in detroit. i will stay in detroit. >> you will stay. glad to hear it. and miles, i think in a way you are a metaphor for detroit. you were a contractor in a leadup to the financial crisis. you owned a home you where are proud to own in a enabled you felt wag very stable with families. you played outside and sat on the porch. you've had a hard time making use of your construction skills since then. you have a house that you bought with two years of outstanding property taxes. you knew about the later year and not the earlier year. and have struggled against fines and fees and other things to try to make it here.

>> everyone so often something that come out of nowhere. every so often. we first bought the house, we looked up all the taxes and everything, and we got the record of it. within six months in, next thing you'll now noh you have issue where the house is in foreclosure because of back taxes that i was told nothing about. >> so you were both very heroic and i am so grateful to you for spending all the time talking to me over the years, and opening your life to me. >> we need the story to get out because it's not just us. it's thousands of poo people that went through and don't if get a chance to tell their story. i was more than happy to give up my little part of it because it was like hit the whole city. didn't just hit one group of people. hit everybody around here and don't seem like it's changed out of ten years. they say it's over with.

together seem like it's over with. it's a different thing going on. different downtown than the neighborhoods. >> so thank you from the bottom of my heart for all of your time and thank you for being here tonight. it really means a lot to me. >> well, i personally think about the bankruptcy that the municipal municipality had and the city of detroit say they built out the municipality but left the people bankrupt. what can make a comeback at a time when we have at the time of governor by the name of snyder that says migrants come into the city of detroit and buy up the homes. make an international statement in order to come in and buy the homes after what you recall i would say gentrification, okay and using the word

gentrification is base clickie what has happened here in the city of detroit. it's been a plan for the longest, for instance, i'll give you an example. we got joe lewis arena downtown. ... >> what would be next? we can't even go to work anymore. who speaks for the little man

cracks? but we have this big development downtown all this private money not private enough for the citizens to walk but they were allowed to walk 30 or 40 years. >> i hope that i have been true with what you have entrusted me with because the other five people in the book one is robin who had those opportunities from the bankruptcy had been a filmmaker in los angeles looking for opportunities in the real estate market and investing in detroit right before the financial crisis

hit and use the bankruptcy to spin a narrative to investors that ultimately as someone who was trying to do good and wants to do more projects and ultimately has a hard time bringing the abandoned buildings back into productivit productivity. he tells the story of that being harder than one might think. another in the book there is a very compelling real estate story and many of the aspects of the economy here are not functioning like they do in other parts of the country including mortgage markets so to be a homeowner and then to have a stable home to come home to he buys house on land contract and pays the full underlying contract and renovates a house but it turns

out the woman who sold it to him has not paid property taxes and then ultimately the house is burned down. >> she lived there as the 67 riot and predominately she sees that as a crucial moment in her life her family did not have the wherewithal to leave her mother by saying that she should stay home from school. so she is living invite more for her whole life and then gets involved with the urban agriculture committee and achieves a lot to be on the board of city organization and

ultimately everything is outside immigration. lola is another person in the book unfortunately now working the night shift at the chrysler plant and could not be here tonight. a single mother in her late twenties and has dreams of running a business and a college degree but is commuting 80 miles each way to work at the call center her job at the time we were talking she was commuting to the call center for a minimum wage job and struggling to stay in her house that she does not feel very safe and in the detroit school system. a system where students

received half the funding of students in new york or boston and finally joe is a white man from new jersey who came to detroit with a lot of ideas and talents and education with commercial space and ideas of starting a business and he is beset by the lack of funding and has trouble finding money to renovate a commercial space. his wife and his daughter join him. his daughter is quite successful working in restaurants and bars. he has a new baby. and we see him encounter a lot of the problems that lifelong detroit residents face but much more recently worried about the neighborhood or where the baby will eventually

go to school, school, there isn't a lot of disposable cash to pay for things. those are the seven people in the book. i want to quickly read one passage from the buckets from early on. and i have chosen it because i think it illustrates how cities are people, the people's progress is ultimately the city's progress and the policies further our national divide so this is early as he sought a house on contract. over the following month courtney taylor came in person to collect the installed payments indicating no surprise that the houses

condition did not know that he bought it for $2100. he thanked her and called her man even as he struggled the padding was stuck to the floor he couldn't afford to fix the cracks and replace the roof. condensation appeared on the walls in several rooms of the house. across the country speculators made purchases of these properties with land contracts it would be the unprofitable properties from their portfolios often in minority communities. properties left vacant with low rents are prospects with long-term investments and the

speculators turned to land contracts to avoid the regulations that would have applied to a sale or rental arrangement. that would have disclosed the quality of the property landlords would have to maintain properties in return when tenants left. the speculator is the population similar to those that fell victim to subprime mortgages helping low income families that could not qualify for traditional mortgages attain homeownership. homeownership meant poor quality without traditional consumer protection. the family who thought bought the property must finance the repair which made it necessary for expenditures to lead them to default and leave their homes. caught up in making the house livable for a larger family never that concerned that they

weren't paying the property taxes. most states including michigan does not require contracts to be recorded by february 2016 at least 300 properties of a primary participant a dallas-based asset management firm entered foreclosure for nonpayment of property taxes. purchasing more than 6400 single-family properties from the government-sponsored lender fannie mae at an average price of $8000 and then resold on land contracts. by that time he and his family had grown to love the area. newly painted walls of brown carpet, family photograph

photographs, leather sofas and humming radiators. hosting extended family on the lawn after he was at the house for months suddenly directed him to send money orders to a po box he wondered about the change but decided not to ask questions and did not want to threaten the homeownership nearly within his reach. so now i will pass the ball to you. [applause] >> i want to start with the big picture question. when you read the stories in the book it's impossible not

to think back to a time when things were different with more opportunity and it seemed as though the possibility. i'm born in the city in 1970 in a neighborhood that looks a lot like what is described of where they live and very familiar with the stories you are telling in the book. i can remember that neighborhood being much more safer than it is today. most people on the block on their own homes they were all african-american. and there was value in those homes that should have produced in incredible amount of people like us who were

still here. so what turned and when it turned and why? i do a lot of work in the neighborhood where i was born and i can't help but think of the postscript to the great migration in the auto industry days so what did we do wrong with those investments from the sixties and seventies that are now virtually worthless? >> and what bankruptcy can do when you balance a budget in terms of property values and with those property tax

revenues but those generate in any direct kind of way. if we look at the more recent piece the detroit demographics african-american that is the population that is targeted by some - - subprime lenders so nearly 70 percent of mortgages were set for the national percentage of 24 percent. that is the difference. so what that means in real terms and personal wealth , most people their wealth is in their homes. that is especially true in this demographic. so you see the sucking of the wealth from detroit and cities like it in terms of tax revenue and personal wealth.

and also in detroit houses were secured less well than other places because there were zombie foreclosures so they weren't on the hook for paying property taxes. then there was the story that where the large swath of the city for investors to come in with other parts of the country that detroit often found the houses were scrapped and that it wouldn't be profitable and then began to offload them through instruments like land contracts that have great risk back from decades ago.

>> so when you think about the last decade of the larger context, there are some distinctions what we see here and other cities. and the effects here are more dramatic and more widespread in most of these have been better able to recover from the things that you are talking about. and the demographic dynamic of african americans suffer from those populations but there are opportunities of what we don't hear. >> let me tell you what miles

told me i don't want to speak for use of jump in when you want to but miles had bought a house when he was very young and had an understanding and didn't get not a subprime mortgage but a subprime loan to make repairs. >>. >> but the whole thing seemed

like it was something simple and the next thing you know that adjustable-rate the market goes up the payment goes up but then it goes further and further if you miss a week of work then the next thing you know 1617 years and then to add on an extra two or 3000 and you can finance your mortgage and you will be all right so with that class-action suit that they had they were posting people's payments 30 days late and they were not even late yet. they were five days later seven days late and then we

found out it is supposed to be 30 days and then they changed all of that. you lose your house and then neighbor loses his house than they guy down the street loses his house then it is the whole block. >> before that happens your plan was to be a landlord and you had bought another property. >> and that's when the problem started to happen. and then the payment kept going up so it was getting out of reach and then my credit wasn't good enough to keep the house brick also ended up letting it go because i cannot afford it anymore. >> so the house that you were arranging for the landlords ended up getting set on fire

and ultimately you found a house at the price that was in a tax foreclosure auction that had bought 100 houses in the auction that year. and sold it to you for about five times what they paid in the auction. >> but then to be put on the market that then six months before foreclosure but when they bought those houses they have stipulations to keep the taxes up but then to say you the house and tell you the taxes are not paid in the county only goes back so far. and then to find out it's another year to work for

taxes. so you lose your investment and everything you put up or you swallow the debt. with that tax foreclosure and going downtown to check the records that is the story you seem to hear for those that have had to cut services that have no relation to the value of the house with a long time tax bills that were incorrect for that sort of thing. >> a lot of what you are pointing to in the book is how broke in the mortgage market is and it might look different from other places.

i wonder what you make of the possibility for solution? even after the tremendous investments they are very reluctant to make extending conventional mortgages that this was very hard to get that done that is what's really different about detroit and baltimore or boston. what is the solution to that? how do you fix the mortgage market that is broken as miles points out that is a great example in the book the

financial regulation changing on the lenders for better or worse has made it more expensive to write mortgages so they have been reluctant to write mortgages on properties value less than $50000 and you will also see banks unwilling to send appraisers into neighborhoods where appraisers are because not having enough home sales in place to come up with the appraisal. the city has programs for the mortgage market. and all the properties that are in public ownership have slowed the bankruptcy to the land bank and has a variety of programs but too many properties to handle individually so those that

throw properties into buckets in various ways and the houses that are pre- renovated with preapproved money for renovations. and the neighborhood that have remained stable throughout this history we have started to see some houses from the land bank for substantially more than they have. and he was surprised at the sales beginning to take place but that is very specific in a specific neighborhood and many of the programs have qualifications that are difficult where the credit scores of the population in

detroit were the lowest scores of any city in the country. this is a problem and it does not do anything to address this it is hard and slow work. >> so whether you do it well or if they lost their equity all the money tied into the houses so how much is your house worth if you have four or five people and your house sits there that is very important. the wealth has been lost in a city that was a city of home ownership and now is a city of majority renters. i know the statistics following the financial crisis are as the wealth gap has

increased from a factor of four or to a factor of six you can use the wealth to send children to college or start a business and if they don't have access to that then that perpetuates itself. >> and if you have bad credit from back then ten years ago ago it didn't change but the people that didn't leave but those that stayed and had to hold the values and everybody else left in the banks didn't even want to houses. the people that still there , we held the neighborhood so the legislators and the prospectors can come through and then that's when you hear about the auction and the land bank when they fail the others. so from different states they

can afford to pay back taxes for two or three years. is nothing to them. as city residents, we cannot afford it. so you have guys going down to a couple hundred thousand dollars what are you going to do cracks you are going to rent from them and say you house on contractor than they wave the discovery clause now they can give it to you because you signed your life away. because you had no other choice and that the stress the people that are still here they feel it because they never went nowhere. you can see it on their face and you really don't have a grandmother or a mother or nobody who has stability because everybody lost their house now you have two or three families and one house.

>> that detroit is in the top five zip codes of landlords and tenants it is a heartbreaking story that i heard during my time here when we describe when your parents moved into the house in morningside how your father planted a rosebush in the backyard and then how he dug it up when the investor of the tax auction said it was worthless. >> it was a bittersweet deal we stayed in the home approximately 30 years. the top value went from 150,000 down at $12000 and have a mortgage for 91000.

the majority owner not that i was afraid but 20 or 15 years ago so once things started to change to have a a different way of looking at different things so you have to come home to the same house they are no longer there and i was one of the last people to leave with the ups and the downs and the gas company. it was bpe that gas company they overcharge you the insurance company charges more you can't get car insurance

this is not a conspiracy what is it? this is by design. so to leave individuals we are better off but no hope there is a time when people had car insurance and people walked on the sidewalk now they walk in the street. so where is the value? it looks like it took more than just the house. to destroy the future of what was coming but to poison the people in flint what is the

difference between schneider and hitler? they both committed genocide. >> one of the things i want to address as well then i want to with the process of writing the book but one of the things we are lacking is investment. and then talk about investment property and it's about capital. with a healthy and reasonable skepticism and investing and not doing it on behalf of the people that live there but talk about how you manage

those things and those tensions in the way by the people who are here like the gentrification with that exploitation. >> it's a very good question and a very complicated question. and capital was this investment over the past. it also needs people and density in neighborhoods. and i'm more worried about neighborhoods that don't have names we have all heard about. thinking of cindy's

neighborhood there is a point in the book of bullet comes through her front window in the middle of the night and it goes very near to where her daughter is sleeping and she was terrified and constantly calling the company that owns her house to get the windows fixed and it never gets fixed. and she is worried no matter how much class she picks up and then her daughter will go to school with a cut foot. so how can we tailor this in with those tax credits for affordable housing, but lots of anchorage has not been defined in a way that is

helpful to the goals. and so that we have owner occupied houses in neighborhoods which we know from all of the stories. >> how where do tile them how to get their properties back? >> so why couldn't the citizens do the same? >> now you're asking really hard questions. >> it is always out of our reach there's always a criteria we cannot fixed if they could beat the criteria they when i need her help but they always come with a bunch of stuff you cannot fit the criteria. be careful who you talk about

they can in with the interior motive. i would give you some if i could talk to you next to nothing if you miss a payment or two i will give you whatever you need it's like shooting dice with the devil. the banks don't even want the houses. >> you have a house, you know how to fix it. a very small amount of money. and if you could do what you plan to do all along, the force that would be on your block of a beautifully renovated house with a homeowner who cares about it.

>> but if they were owning their homes are going to work that's entirely different but if you have people just speculating they can be running past taking pictures or asking you questions coming out of anywhere. or we bought your house or we bought to the whole block. you don't know who these people are then they walk up out of nowhere and then say i they might buy our house next or they are looking at our house. what are they coming over here for cracks everybody has a different feeling. they don't care about the city and then with some type of crazy deal that doesn't work in the neighborhoods. >> at the house as a place of

disinvestment in so often lately of a very particular type of investment that for the people who live here. >> so what gave you the idea to come to detroit to tell the story? >> detroit and many other cities like it i was teaching and researching and writing full-time and i am a great believer in the process for kyle but what i wanted to do was go behind the headlines and evaluate what this meant for the people that live in the city that go through the process ultimately that is the question of the human cost of bankruptcy.

>> how did you find the seven people that were stars of the story? >> i feel like they found me because they were willing to stick with me and trust me and talk to me. but i explained the real estate story or somebody who has lost their house and city doesn't seem very emblematic or open to bankruptcy or they talk about the challenges that it faces in the wake of the bankruptcy. so i started with that in a sea of very nice person in the audience who allowed me to tag along for door to door canvassing and with some counseling sessions.

and through the aclu and from there i began to broaden out from real estate that similarly were challenging to the cities before the bankruptcy and remain challenging afterwards with issues like education time in entrepreneurship and transportation. >> and the title and the cover which i have heard some people say they were in love with the abandoned house is being used to represent how you settled on that. >> i take credit for the work there were a lot of meanings that were all applicable in

various ways. i have to say that i have nothing to do with the cover. >> authors don't get to pick left half that was the publishing house and that was there call. >> i will open to questions in a second but even that would at least you didn't do anything right or wrong. let's look at the facts. detroit needs jobs for equities jobs for people who have been living here for go that is hard work. maybe that's not what i should be saying for low hanging fruit. there was a time working at

this call center answering calls about air-conditioning systems and one of her callers said, you know you could answering questions you could solve them and probably do a lot better. that sounded good to her she lives on the east side of detroit near the eastland mall which not it has very few store stores. and would often tell people in directions that her grandfather was driving her each way to work and asked if they could stop at home depot and then would go in and ask if there was any available but she was very clear that if

they did she would never want that job because she knew she would be paid on commission and she wanted to be where the money was and the money was in the suburbs. is not even having a job with training and transportation to get there and to say there is a lot of money instead of going to subsidies to attract corporations. >> how would they even get to work? out of anywhere?

and this is the story for those that live here it has cost upwards of $6000 per year that is the national average $815 per year which makes it very hard to get anywhere with the cost of housing in this city. this is what bankruptcy can do the city knows this is a problem that current leadership calls civil rights when most jobs are in the suburbs it is a matter of state law and there's very little the city can do on its own since the time of the book the new governor has passed some changes.

>> they are not nearly what i think it is something that still's needs a pretty significant reward. >> i want to open up to audience questions. >> i will tell charles his story that he was driving a friends car somebody bumped into him mad railroad crossing we were waiting in the - - in the car but that is something with car insurance would do.

>>. >>. >> and then to transform so when will the mayor decide the city of detroit? to show the pattern of the leaf to stop those different interventions. but it never ended.

and then you fight the gas company over here the police over there overall it is just a fight when do they get together to help detroit and not give a tax break to corporate america downtown? what about the people that lost their homes? [applause] >> why was is detroit different? >> how was detroit different

from chicago? and being the motor city could you comment on the fact that gm and chrysler. >> another said bankruptcies but the question was how is detroit different from other cities i would first say that i think it is on trend from past decades and by the

federal government into the peaks of the late seventies and following steadily between 80 and 88 in response to the financial crisis with the sequester but all those that have balanced budget requirements turn around and pass the cuts to cities and they have been left to balance their budgets by going into the financial markets and all of that risk that was accumulated didn't harm for the financial crisis. so that was representative and in some ways it was largely a wine industry town that has

suffered from mobilization and suburbanization and about cuts to the gm plant so that is certainly that detroit is unique on the other end because of the car industry , it is a place where philanthropic foundations because of the historic american spirit is also a place people read about and care about to see as a reflection of america so they don't have as much austerity as other municipal bankruptcies have seen in its wake. >> i am a long time detroiter. five years ago i purchased a house from a land bank.

two months after i purchased the house, i got a tax bill for back taxes $3500. i was not told by the city there would be any additional taxes. fortunately i was able to pay i it. a lot of times people have to walk away even if they paid cash for a house. i also attempted to get a four bedroom four bathroom house with a 25000-dollar loan from the bank, i'm blessed at that time i was making six figures of the irs. these are the things that happen to people of color every single day if you have a high income or low income it does not matter. auto insurance.

last year had a vehicle sitting on blocks and one in my driveway i had an auto accident. to vehicles. i retired he worked for the city. i'm paying $1600 a month just for coverage this is what happens in the city of detroit and most cities in the state of michigan if you live in the city were predominately were people of color live you really really need to know the people that look like me they are not able to vote in detroit they have been for

decades now and i own five properties the 525 a month for a two-bedroom you cannot find any affordable housing in the city now. because they can no longer afford to stay in detroit and it has affected all of us because the traces to the emergency manager. [applause] >> focusing on population was 700,000 people that live here

that are very high cost for other parts of the country and the idea for you live in america that is problematic that americans should care about. >> so she just segue into my question. so have you touched upon the people in your book because those going without a mortgage even though i have a great credit score. i know people, one of my

friends her father was retired they lived in indian involvement on - - village and lost their home they pay their mortgage for years and then realize the house was gone. i know people i grew up at university people that moved away one of my good friends disappeared that there was building downtown completely shut out that we have to have the wrong code we couldn't get into the house so the question is have as you cover that? how much of that do you talk about? for those credit scores that are completely shut out? the analog to your experience coming from new jersey

literally moving to detroit with several cities to see as having more open space and excited to be here and has an impossible time to find a house. and a lot of that was the existence of the market with the conditions you would be earning on a house at a low price which is so low that all of the brokers he called were not returning their phone calls. eventually he bought from somebody that said we pay cash for houses. he knew the house had problems but he was glad to have it. and then there are similar problems trying to buy a commercial space because the business idea with the vacant properties to be for sale and

felt lucky to find what he found. that he bought on the equivalence of land contract management with monthly checks to the llc at a po box and did not pay it off and they took ownership. >> thank you. >> you touched on the surprise investment of people moving into jobs and housing values as well as people moving away. one of the things is people feeling safe. you talk about appraising houses, they don't feel it out because the bankruptcy, the

judge has to disagree whether or not the city met its responsibilities to the students on - - students like police and firefighters and ems and without legal responsibility for whatever value is lost. or lack of investments and those that could not maintain home values. >> first of all this was not originally in the bankruptcy code until we got to the great depression and even then it wasn't used for city use maybe if they lost a lawsuit to pay a lot of damages it did not

hav have, they use bankruptcy for a large city for generalized challenges is something we didn't see until after the financial crisis. but it doesn't get into the nuances of what you talk about the white woman living in bright more owns the house with no mortgage. she thinks she would like to leave and has a plan she will get a used camper trailer driving into memphis where she has a relative and park in the driveway and get work cleaning houses and then she realizes even if somebody wanted to buy her house which is difficult for her to imagine, she

couldn't sell it for as much as a used camper trailer cost. >> let's give her a hand for being here. [applause] thank you for coming out.

>> they are adept at sending off criminal investigations fbi agents he might threaten people and hire well-connected lawyers and support the favored charity there are all kinds of ways he could get himself into good grace with law enforcement in new york and new jersey. and was 50 when he had a lot of interests and they understood who he was and was never charged in any criminal case. it's interesting to have that background in the rearview mirror of the impeachment situation where there is a public reckoning and now to

make things go away . . . . homegrown terrorist organization called m19, the only american terrorist group organized and led by women most of the operations which culminated in a shop and bombing of the capital in november 1983 are documented in many sources including those in the custody of the national archives. in a recent