tv David Zucchino Wilmingtons Lie CSPAN February 3, 2020 1:01am-2:02am EST
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and i have enough faith in the country i believe there are people that want a and want to understand what is going on and saying we are going to tel wereu what is happening and face the truth we still believe in it and we believe in journalism and an end we are going to continue and upholding the standard we are doing something important that democracy. the press is the only one of the constitution i feel a particular obligation to do the right thing
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right out of school, he was still in school. i looked across and i said to someone who is that, while he is going to be the new store here. he had long dark hair over his shoulders, thick mustache. it was a long time ago. [laughter] david is a graduate of the journalism school and hall of fame and he became famous in the newsroom and the new young editor came in and sent out a memo to the reporting staff saying each reporter will submit to the editor every morning in
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itinerary for his plans for the day. david even then impossible to tame sat down at the manual typewriter into the legendary story. many of the people remember it. what i will do today, by david. [laughter] >> 10:15, try to sneak in a littllittle late. left 10:40 communities are. 11:00, start talking about where to go to the. he's talking about all of these. the special went over $4 for
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today w$4 us thattoday we might, all written down. the young editor goes crazy. it goes into the office of the very severe, serious editor that does "the new york times." waving them at no. we can't have this kind of insubordination. insubordination. i've got to be honest with you. he's one of the best reporters i've ever seen in fact he may be the best i've ever seen. and i did work on "the new york times." so, we got it again, or regarded by you. [laughter] better start packing. [laughter] he was in raleigh and then quickly up the ladder philadelphia, los angeles, all of this a correspondent as he
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has been for "the new york times." it's been quite a career. and you know the late jimmy breslin said of the chicago paper when they were talking to some of the columns and they were trying to get quotes on everything, he said he is the best, isn't he, and that is all he said. that's all they say about the david. [applause] said thank you, jim, for the story. thank you everybody for coming out tonight. i appreciate your interest in the book. i would like to ask how many how many people in the hearings. do i hear the motion to call this off? i usually like to start by
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asking how many were aware before you came across this book packs so, most of you. i have to admit i haven't heard about this until about 20 years ago. i went to high school and college in north carolina and never heard about it in history class from any history teacher. when i went many years ago, i was assigned. i knew morrison was a governor but that is only new and years later in researching the book i find that he is one of the leading speakers on the white supremacy campaign that is the subject of the book in 1898. when i was in school i went to king stadium to watch the games. i didn't know who he was and i didn't care. years later in researching the
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book, he was a character as well and a member of one of the machine of the crew that went through town searching out detail. after i left school as chun told you chad toldyou i went to the e founding publisher was revered at the paper and there were tributes over the newsroom. nobody ever mentioned that he was almost a liter of the white supremacy campaign and let the propaganda campaign during 98. i had no idea until i started researching this book. i found out recently and it's one of 30 building 30 building e campus learning after the white
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supremacists many of them are active in the latest posting of the debate and 98, and they bring all this up just to make the point that this book is and really ancient history. it's right now the legacy of the book is all over the state and all over chapel hill. some people who've managed to read the book i ask for their impression and they usually have two questions. first, how did i not know about this and second, how could this happen in the united states of america. the only thing i can tell is that it is a forgotten chapter of american history not just north carolina history of american historthatamerican hiss covered up or mischaracterized for more than a century. most of the basic story that i will go through quickly in 1898 white supremacists overthrow the multiracial government in wilmington. they killed up to 60 black men
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and wounded dozens more. they burnt down a black daily newspaper and depicted the city leaders at gunpoint. they appointed police chief and the city and banished black-and-white political leaders and marched them down with militiamen at gunpoint to the train station and put them on the train and if you ever come back we will shoot you on sight and not one of them never came back. you can imagine doing this period but it must've been like fomust have beenlike for those . they were running through the streets terrorizing people and hundreds of them led into the swamps and cemeteries outside of the city. this was in november so you can imagine that it was the first day that it was. they were raining. there were some reports that
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there were signs of exposure and it took them two nights and three days before they were sick enough to return and in the days and weeks following the coup, 2100 fled the city and never came back. what is hard to believe about all this is that no one was ever published. no one was ever prosecuted much less convicted for the murders or for the violence to. it's also hard to believe that they announced it. they said that they would overthrow the rule by the ballot. they said they were going to do that and they did as the whole country watched. this would have been the spring and summer and fall of the newspapers of the day sent reporters don't cover.
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the philadelphia inquirer, the papers in charlotte, atlanta and of course the observer, they were all there and one of the reporters from out of town would arrive at the train station in the white supremacy movement to hand out cigars. they were going around patrolling the cities before the two and the reporters would go oureporters whippedaround with s would go out with them and never interview a black person as far as i could tell that they would go out and follow the stories that they were telling them there was going to be a riot and they were stockpiling weapons and that they were incapable of governing and didn't have the right to vote and they were reflected in the stories they sent back so the nation got this
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whole story that was basically the talking point of the white supremacists through the white press. now, for a century or more, this was called the race riot. it was a racial massacre. iit is was a planned murder spr. in the nations history on the centuries there have been many race riots and almost all of these were spontaneous outbursts and in many cases that involved real or supposed to contact between a black man and in a we woman. but what was unique and
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different as it was premeditated and that is a carefully racial revolution planned well in advance and the most successful by an overthrow. life is at such a threat? i think because it was a bold experiment. one of them was an outlier in the 19th century. it was a rarity in the south. first of all it was a majority black city, 56% black. very, very few big cities headed for the majority but more importantly it had a multiracial government they were in the positions of authority. ten of the 26 police officers were black, three of the ten city officers were black, the public magistrates, lawyers, merchants and newspaper.
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in 1898 a baptist publication of course this was intolerable to the white supremacists and they were not going to let it stand. now they have a goal the first is to overthrow the government in wilmington, but that was just the first goal. there was a bigger and major goal which was to deny people the right to vote and the right to hold public office forever and by those standards, it was an incredibly successful too. in 1896 there were run under 26,000 registered black voters in north carolina, 126,000, 1906, 6100. and it went downhill from there.
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and in fact the citizens of north carolina did not vote in significant numbers for 70 more years until after the voting rights act of 1965. it also turne turned the black majority city into a supremacists stronghold overnight. in 1898 as i said before, wilmington was 56% black. just take a guess, somebody knows 18%. in 1898 america had one black congressman in the country. his name was george henry white from north carolina and he represented the district in the
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southeastern part of the state adjacent to wilmington. he was harassed and run out of the office by the white supremacists and said he wasn't going to run he was leaving the state in his parting words were i cannot believe in north carolina no citizens and congress until 1992 almost a century later now after they were evicted at gunpoint until 1972, it wasn't that long ago also been stored as the official
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state policy for nearly 50 years. ireland to give you one example in georgia in 1906 there was a statewide campaign and they were trying to figure out a way to deny the vote and still do election. do you think they did, they consulted with the leaders of the wilmington coup to find out how to do it. the white supremacist governor that got elected and here's a direct quote from an we can handle them the way they handled wilmington. it was under the time and some helped invade the two third dure summer of 1898 that he received
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some postcards in the mail and that they would remember the six and a skull and cross bones and it was a death threat and on the card said the six leading republicans in the town they called them a generous sums up the white race and they said that dave is coming when they would pay for putting blocks in office and they would be banished from town and as it turned out, they were. the white mayor, vice police chief, commissioner on the train and said don't come back we will kill you and not one of them ever came back. one of the main weapons for the white supremacy campaign was a fitness campaign led by none other than who planted stories in the observer to package u the
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about the propaganda campaign the manipulation through the misleading newspaper stories was perhaps the most daring and effective campaign of the era. the sensational story focused on what daniels and other democrats claim as a native of the south, daniels understood implicitly the insecurity of the white southern males and already emasculated by the union troops to occupy their towns, they risked further shame that gluckman or all o of it as to something of the quality. a black man who could hold public office with a man who might by their logic become a viable and escalated into the
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front page outrage required with incidental contact between a whitwhitewomen and black men ths coming when one of them will take the law into their own hands and by organizing make them behave themselves. white supremacists had their own fake news and campaign and their own militia. they were called redshirts and they were basically an outgrowth of the clan. many of her sons were relatives of the confederate veterans or clan members. they were basically the private
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militia of the white supremacists. all summer, the job was to ride out through the countryside at night burst into homes, drag out the minute beat them and told them they would speak if they've registered to vote or dared to vote on election da day and on election da day features in november 1898, the intercepted any black man trying to get in the polling stations and intimidated them into the them, and by doing so, they crushed the black turnout and stole the election. now, in addition to the redshirts, they were to state militias in wilmington. first was the wilmington infantry and the other was the maple reserves. these were the national guard of the day they were supposed to report to the governor of raleigh that they were in fact committed by white supremacists and reported to the leaders.
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the militiamen served this summer in the spanish-american war if you can remember it played out this summer. but the white leaders made sure that they were back from a poor from the time of the coup and they have planned it for two days after the election and during the ride they unleashed them on the day of the two the militiamen were still in federal service and federal soldiers because they would have been mustered out for another week or two so that meant they murdered an american citizen on the pretext of putting down the black riot. now, black soldiers also served in the spanish-american war and segregated unions but the white leaders made sure they were far from wilmington on the day of the coup and the training camp hundreds of miles away so that left the community defenseless
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adhere you had all these young men trained that they were miles away. no one of them was named alex manley is the publishe who is tf the daily record and as a journalist i was drawn to him and i thought that he was a fascinating character. he wa was at courageous man and character. he challenged and demanded civil rights for blacks and essentially demanded that the country live up to its promises to its black citizens. in august of 1898, he wrote an incendiary editorial about race and it almost got him lynched. he had to flee the city. he wrote many black men lynched were raping white women into the three were consensual and he also pointed out white men raped black women with impunity.
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this editorial was in response to a speech by a white woman in georgia who sai say that the ony solution was, quote, a thousand times a week if necessary. i'd like to read briefly from the editorial a short selection. every negro lynched is called, quote, a big [inaudible] when in fact many of those that have dealt with have wifi for their fathers and were not only black and th burly but were sufficiently attractive for the culture to fall in love with them as it is very well-known to all. what the virtue of the something more than an excuse for them to
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intimidate and tortur and to toe helpless people and tell your man it's no worse for black men to be intimate with a white woman than for the white man to be intimate with a colored woman. >> you set yourselves down as a lot of carping hypocrites in that the crying about for the virtue while you seek to destroy the morality of hours. now you can imagine under these conditions in 1898 to write something like that. people often ask me how i researched the book and i am a journalist as jim mentioned and i'm used to interviewing people about how they witnessed or experienced. obviously in this case there are no witnesses left from 1898, so everything that is in the book came from documents into his
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titles and piles of papers in my office from all of the documents i collected. i spent a lot of time in libraries most significantly wilson library at unc at the southern historical collection in the north carolina collection which are amazing. i really recommend that you go. but there was a problem. the whites for problems their accomplishments and they both knew about it in memoirs and diaries and letters and newspaper columns. there were some really rich and detailed records but black is left behind far fewer documents as you can imagine they were running for their lives. the daily record was burned. all copies were destroyed over some people are finding the copies now somebody was able to do thankfully there were newspapers around the country who obviously could not send
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reporters to wilmington to cover these events because of the least they would have been beaten and run out of town and killed but after the coup when the family is spread around the country most of the eastern easn seaboard, the black newspapers would interview them and get some rich and detailed stories about what happened so that was a great resource. in addition, there were black ministers and lawyers who left interesting memoirs and letters was in incredible detail. one of the sources i have alex manley's wife who had a beautiful series of letters to her son in 1950 that is just poignant. and i quote some of them in the book. with all of us i was able to balance the narrative with the black experience. what i tried to do also is to put myself in wilmington as a
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journalist in 1898 and also tried to use the tools of the novel characters and scenes and dialogues to create a narrative that is built entirely from documents. now this is not a historical fiction book. it's a nonfiction book everything in the book comes from the documents. documents. it's a work of journalism and its not fake news to you i use a popular term of the day. before closing i want to read two short passages from the book that show the scope of the tragedy. first is the election speak given by alfred is who is a for congressman and newspaper confederate colonel that led the mob and installed himself as mayor. this is when he gave a speech to a huge crowd.
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the crisis is upon us. the city, county and state shall be rid of the negro domination once and forever you have the courage and if you are the sons of the noble ancestry. they would go with them door-to-door and to plead with the residents not to resist the government. he made a great public show that early in the da day november 10 which is the day of the two he concluded that further resistance would only get him killed. he had gone from house to house accompanied by three white men pleading no to oppose the government and at one point a group of black men seized them
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and held them hostage. it was the sort of desperate act several white men in the crowd attempted to whinge. they've intercepted by two of the three hostages. the intercession on behalf of the hostages didn't spare him from the banishment campaign just before dark the detachment escorted him into the city jail. a short time later, they took the infantry soldiers before the train departed, the developments made the situation even more dire. first he was warned by the soldier that he would be killed on sight if he ever returned to wilmington and second in the red shirt they boarded the train before it rolled out of the depot. the infantry detachment departed
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leaving it alone with the red shirts and a few hours later was discovered in the root on the northern outskirts. the major event in north carolina history and american history would be mentioned in the north carolina public history books. and invective is barely mentioned, and it was portrayed as a heroic response to the riot and, quote, good government efforts to replace corrupt rules. here is a public school textbook from 1933, quote, there were many officeholders, some of whom are the tasks this naturally aroused between the races,." they became poor citizens to to
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devote the carpet bagger is allowed him to do very much as they pleased and worst crimes were not punished, they were no longer safe, "-end-double-quote. here ihere's from the 1949 to ar of disturbing the riot took over wilmington and finally this is from the 1940 textbook about the red shirts. to put an end to the terrible condition they joined together to to be back in the lives of the people, such frightened them into living better lives. they had done wron wrong and hay
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were listed and the next moment the clan with a visit to the men and punish them according to the wronghomes they had done after , they were not so bold and crying became less and less. again, public school textbook, 1940. so you can see how the white mythology cooked the false narrative alive. i wrote the book to correct the record and i truly believ beliey have tbelieve wehave to confronf history to understand the roots of racism and hate and learn from it. to the politicians are using social media to scapegoat and demonize people of color especially with white nationalism on the rise. in fact, some of the white nationalist said jews will not replace us in charlottesville at home in 1998. now, the voters today are being told by some extremists that america is a white country and
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they are portrayed as outsiders and threats to the traditional american way of life and a few politicians are using some of the same tactics as white supremacists in 1998 and i will give you an example, in addition to the many death threats received he was told many times to go back to africa. just this summer for a congressman of color were told it back to their home countries. one more example, in 1898, they were told that they were raping women and stealing their jobs. today, the voters were told mexican rapists are pouring across the border is telling jokes. >> so if we do not learn from the tragedies like this, then it goes can play the race card again and again to insert the sort of hateful violence that was so destructive 122 years ago. so, if there is one thing i hope they do take from this book, this is it. thank you very much. [applause] i think we are going to open up the questions now. >> two quick questions.
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first i had heard on npr that there was difficulty in obtaining the information that you research going forward today some of the libraries have kept us off the shelves and number two, was there any realization i didn't have trouble getting documents. they are very well catalogued area they mentioned the library in wilmington and the national archives. there were more documents than i could handle and mixed with federal government. i write in the book about how the administration was warned repeatedly beforehand warned him about what was going to happen and a group of clergymen also
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met with him and warned him about the same thing as david and a whitthe white republican n from north carolina. they all warned him after the coup george henry white went back and asked president mckinley for help to send troops. as far as i can tell in the records, he didn't make one single public statement about the situation. his administration was being accused of not taking care of the troops dying of yellow fever, they were poorly fed, it was a huge controversy and that was surprising that ken lay
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acted that way because he was an abolitionist and had been a union officer and in fact he campaigned for public vote and support of the black suffrage, but he was also trying to bring the nation together during the campaign. he met with confederate veterans and gave them each a knife and grand union forever and you have to remember southerners and northerners are fighting together in the more so i think in his mind he didn't want to risk antagonizing the southern right he had to run for reelection, so i think that for obvious reasons he defended her seat, but in answer to your question there was no intercession by the federal government. >> i would like to know about the reaction of governor daniel
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russell was going to the coup and the reaction from ida wells barnett. >> governor russell was a republican and in fact he was put in office with the help of the barcode. he was from wilmington under threat by the white supremacists and they completely intimidated him and threatened him with a fascination he managed to vote but barely made it home he was told to leave to almost killed on the way and they have to hide hihad to hidehim in a baggage ct
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every stop they would board the train and try to win ten. he made it to rally to find the governor's mansion was governor's mansion was surrounded by a mob and he barely got inside and he and his wife had to stay there. in order for federal troops to come down and restore order or do anything about the riots they wouldn't request them because he was terrified. >> if they had been so successful in suppressing the vote, why was it necessary to go ahead with the coup municipal offices were not part of the election. it was scheduled for the next march but they didn't want to wait that long.
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olong. they planned for two days after and forcibly removed the officers rather than waiting for the march election. we will go over here if anybody has any questions. yes sir. >> i appreciate the fact you are sounding the alarm and ringing the bell for the awareness of the issue. obviously our local newspaper has the hope to be a proxy for the misdeeds. is there any role for the reparations or anything of that nature from descendents or owners of the newspaper's performance at the riot?
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>> i was in wilmington over the weekend and in 1998 when they marked the 100th year anniversary there was quite a debate in the city over the reparation, and the debate is still going on. i just wonder how you could possibly come to take all the families that have their lives ripped apart into members of the family murder and run out of town. i think that it's an important issue and it needs to be discussed. i don't have the answer to that began iwhichbegan in wilmingtong issue. as you mentioned in the epilogue it's come down from the campus
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and to topple. >> i am not getting into that one that is for me to decide the. >> i will say i didn't anticipate the question about the silent sam. many of you might know this, but the speaker o when the statue ws put up the main speaker was julian shakespeare. he was a very vocal support of the white supremacy campaign and as a sa they say in 1913 he deld a speech left me read you a couple of quotes that was portrayed as a tribute to those that left the university, and it
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was because it was. they said they had fought to save the life of the anglo-saxon race in the south an south and o preserve the quote, they were strain of the anglo-saxon and he also bragged when he returned to campus from returning and 65, quote, i horsewhipped until the skirt hung in shreds because upon the streets of the village she had publicly maligned and he called it a pleasing duty.
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wanted there is a building on campus that still stands can you comment about the relationship i can only assume the riots would have happened but as i pointed out before, wilmington was absolutely unique in that it wasn't a spontaneous outburst on behalf, it was planned and premeditated and that is the what effect it had whether it had an effect or somehow contributed to this after i really can't say.
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one of the leaders of the campaign catapulted the same along with a lot of other people in 1898, and as you mentioned, he served 30 years as a u.s. senator and rob christiansen right here in the back wrote a terrific book including the politics of north carolina that i recommend highly. daniels rose to fame and became the secretary of the navy under woodrow wilson was the segregationist spent eight years as a young man in wilmington and was also the ambassador to
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mexico as a nationally known figure many other speakers during the likes of tennessee campaign became governor and catapulted the same as a result of the role in the campaign. >> i have a couple of comments into question. i grew up in brooklyn new york. >> a document north carolina. >> the story is outrageous. is it possible first my comment it sounds almost like a blueprint for the holocaust. there is a lot of similarities they can make it in to get involved in the actions because
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of the state rights and he told that there were good people on both sides. he never said it to my knowledge but that is a good point is entirely possible i do think that he did not want to antagonize white voters, not only in north carolina, but across the south. south. he's a politician running and it had a lot to do with it. >> we did a pilgrimage this past summer and i'm wondering if you've heard from members of the community particularly sandbar they said to the descendents they came to apologize for what their ancestors had done so by the pew might want to get in touch with saint marks. my question is in the research
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have you seen evidence of how they impact it out in the 1970s click >> i got to cost them that last week on the wilmington ten. i'm not an expert on the wilmington ten. i know the outlines of the story and i'm sure most people here are familiar from 71 or 72. i want them to the whole story, but you can only assume some of the hate and racism from 1898 bled over into the way to 1971 )-close-paren accusing ten people who were later exonerated and so have the clan marching and 71 in those organizations and as i said i don't know the details so i see though i see t line of the racism going right
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into 71. >> the young people want t peopa place to meet and discuss their grievances and when i asked about that they said they were afraid to because of what happened in 1898. >> and i the distrust shown in n wilmington and i tried really hard and went over the city during the buck to get people to talk to me that very few people were there. there were always people coming forward to me incredible stories that i wish i had the book is the perfect people just didn't want to talk about that replaced the record enough for phone calls and e-mails and i think it was the legacy of the white persolate%committed to the stor.
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does the campaign declined? a look around the room and i have to say it's certainly peaked in 1898 as you know what sort of went underground after the reconstruction and came back in a big way around the state and around the south and today there is not the overt racism but you have a staple a state wa switcher that just passed recently that the federal court ruled were specific and targeted
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african-americans with surgical precision so that is one example. this isn't the same level but still an attempt to keep the black citizens from voting. >> we have one more question. >> this is more of a personal level. when i moved about 40 years ago i joined and had been a member previously. everything i always heard when i moved from fayetteville is how liberal. having to hear you talk about the past and things come in the past having seen some life into generational offspring, have to have end to run into any of the
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daniels as of late and if you have, hopefully they print your book and i just want to go on an a personal basis do you see any difference today as a journali journalist? >> i was there in the 70s and today was a very progressive and liberal paper on the editorial page. when i worked there i thought it was a terrific paper particularly covering government, state government and exposing republicans and democrats
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