victory in the civil war. university of texas journalism professor kate winkler looks at the life of america's first forensic scientist. former u.s. assistant of ed education and the bush administration diana ravitch argues public education should not be privatized. syndicated columnist cal thomas offers his thoughts on whether the united states will remain a superpower. and time magazine national correspondent reports on how millennial's gain leadership roles at the local and national level. check your program guide for more information. >> michelle sullivan is with us today courtesy of she recently retired as director of corporate social innovation and president of the caterpillar foundation. the philanthropic arm of the 46 billion-dollar manufacturing giant caterpillar inc.

in addition to her 30 year career holding various leadership positions at the company, she recently helped transform the foundation into one of the world's most influential corporate foundations. the launch of its collaborative platform known as together, stronger, a catalyst for shared prosperity that unites businesses, nonprofits, government, and citizen. to combinene their strength to alleviate poverty for millions of people worldwide. please give a warm savannah welcome to michele sullivan. thank you so much and, and thank you to to the festival people you put on a tremendous event. also to savannah it's my first time here and i absolutely love it and i will definitely return. i also love the weather.

when i left home yesterday in illinois it was minus eight. so i greatly appreciate the 60 something degree weather today. [laughter] i also thank you for your time today. takeke her home and treat her like everybody else. that's advice doctor gave my parents over five decades ago. [laughter] on the day i was born. this is after he took an x-ray because i had a bit of a club foot and he discovered i had a type of dwarfism. which a few years later they found out was a very rare type of dwarfism. i like to think that my parents would have done that anyway, take me home and treat me like everybody else, but the affirmation is always nice. you may not think that was a big w deal, but back in the 60s, people who are born with a disability were not treated like everybody else.

and to some extent, that is true today, unfortunately. but things have definitely improved. i didn't know i was any different until i went to kindergarten my "big brother" had gone to school and i was ready. my mom dropped me off, i walked down the hall like i own the place, stuck my chest out, went in the classroom and the teacher told me to it go the circle and play with the kids until class started. so i did that, i went over plot myself done and got right into it. and it didn't take but a few minutes and the boy next to me, i remember it like it was yesterday. he said in a very loud voice, hey, why are you so little? what is wrong with you? i didn't think he was talking to me so i kept on playing i had other things to do. and it didn't take very long on the ground the other side and he said yeah, why are you so little?

then i looked up and i could see all the other kids staring at me. and i could feel the confidence go right out of me. and i did not understand why. have you ever had that feeling of being overlooked oreo underestimated, are not be included? most people have at some point in their life. my first time was when i was five in kindergarten. i had no idea what just happened.t as the day went on, i was outside the circle both literally and figuratively. i wasn't included, i certainly wasn't fitting inside the circle. so when the gotel into the car my mom said how was it? i looked at her and i said is there something wrong with me? and m she paused, i've never had my mom pause or hesitate, so it kind of scared me. she goes well, we are all born different, it's the way god made us and you will be

smaller than most people. but you are still going to be able to do whatever youou want to do. maybe in a little different way, no pun intended, but you will be able to do whatever you want. of course i had no idea what she was talking about, and it didn't make me feel any better at the time. but as i went into first grade, and then into second grade, i was in the same classroom so they really got over it they got to know me and that didn't become an issue. the stairs were always there there came a point where i didn't want to go out at all and when i didue i hid behind my parents. i want to hide i didn't understand what was happening was all because it was shorter and as we got older the gap increased. so it came into second grade, and the teacher introduced us to this math game called around the world.

and she was flash cards, and somebody stood next to somebody's desk and whoever gave the answer first got to move to the next desk. and it kept moving and whoever one got to keep moving. and i come to realize i was good at math. i was great at math. and i always will roll in around the world. when you wan you got to take your animal out of the cage on the bulletin board and put it outside the cage. of course i picked the giraffe. [laughter]r] right? it's tall and had a neck. both of which i'm not. i would put my little animal out and put on the because i won the game. it was the first time, i started to realize what my parents were trying to tell me. this really two kinds of growth. this is one of the first chapters in my book, looking up. we spend about the first 18 to

20 years growing on the outside. for me it was ten years. [laughter] and then we spend three quarters of our life growing on the inside. because these kids started to say you know michele, the one that's smart in math. it wasn't you know michele, that little girl. it was the first time il. noticed that i was known for something other than my size. and it was a great feeling. i never had that before. now keep in mind i only had that feeling in school. still when i went out in public it wasn't there. by started to realize, i still am growing on the inside. you grow allll your life. think about your emotional stability, your emotions your relationships, your psychology, all of these things that make whoyo you are continue to evolve the rest of your life.

so then came third grade and it was a rainy day. so the teacher taught his chest. and then we would play a lot. guess what, i was great atd chess. to the point where i would win tournaments. and there i was again, i would go into these halls and i hated walking into the chess halls does a huge, room, so many tables, and when i would walk in, everybody was staring and i was just, please god just give me to it my table. and i'd climb up the table and i had to sit on my knees or i couldn't see. and most of the time they're mostly boyse, and they would be staring at me thinking they're playing a game. a lot of times i would beat them in ten minutes because they are busy gawking. but a wins a win. [laughter] and so i get the trophy at the end, and the first time it

happened, this boy brought his mother over when the parents came in to pick us all up. and i went what to get a say. i had my guard up. because mom, this is the girl i told you about, she won, she won the whole thing. a girl, this girl. [laughter] so once again, i was looked up to. and so is life goes on, we learned the lessons. it still didn't help a lot when i'd go out in public. i still needed other tools and resources. my mom always told me start where you are, use what you have, and do what you can. that's what we all do in life. we go at a different pace and so forth. and then it came about time to deal with my orthopedic problems. my type of dwarfism has a lot of hip and knee problems. i like to say i was bored with

my check engine light on. that's how it is. to my parents took me around the country to find someone who could help with my skeletal dysplasia, and we were introduced by someone who happened to be the first rslittle person i've ever met. i had never met another little person until i was 12. i thought i was the only one. keep in mind this is before you have cable tv with 300 channels. so we went out to baltimore to john hopkins to meet with the doctor who specializes skeletal dysplasia. along the way, he called this in in the first thing started talking to me was about my personal self. all the other doctors i had met, because i do have a very rare type of dwarfism and i'm sure they never saw another person like me who has that type of dwarfism. and they treated me more like ae specimen. not this dr., he asked about school, my personal life, was

i going to college, all these things. i'm 12 i had name thought of that myself yet. but his point waslf he you are more than your skeletal dysplasia. and so i had a series of surgeries at john hopkins in the first time i went was in 1979. mice first surgery was june 12, not that i can remember but i remember very well. after the surgery, i had this nurse named kathy who was a student nurse. she is about seven years older than me. she was there the whole ten days that i was there, and she always came in and we really had a connection. i don't know what it was, but she was so open and caring, and she teased me a lot which i loved. we had a lot of fun because it wasn't the most enjoyable environment, that kathy made it enjoyable. i thought it was so cool that she was going to college and being a nurse. it was time to go home.

she goes give me a call when you come back in three months for physical therapy. so it's time to come back and mom i thought should be called? shoot them a call? my dad goes call if you want. what you got to lose? so he called we didn't even get a word in edge wise and she said all your come back in town she cameac back. and i stayed there for therapy and my parents had to go back home, it was kathy who took me out. she took me to it her house, she laid me on her kitchen counter, no kidding, and she would do her homework and we would chat. i just thought she was the coolest person. she was my mentor. i looked up to her so much. and it was also kathy who taught me that my parents had tried for years, but you know it always takes other people too. you finally realize you have to let yourea guard down for people to come in.

i always have my guard up. even today, you never know when someone is going to come up and say so you're always kind of ready for anything. but she really taught me, you have to let your guard down and let people get to know you. i do that, i did that through school and people really started to know who i am, and what i was about more than my size. it had to be more than that. any time you walk in a room, do you everd scan the room and you think who can i talk to? right? who will be receptive to me? and who looks more like something i might be interested in where they are there for a particular reason? who do you want to talk to? people sometimes look right over me like i'm not even there. i understand that, it is a little awkward. i have learned make the first

move. my parents choke with me that i was boredt with the gift of gab. i can't imagine why they would say that, but i was. i really used that to make the first move and talk to people. then they get comfortable and you startet chitchatting. what goes along with that is a bit of humor. for instance at the hotel, if i needed to go to floor ten, i can only reach three. there is somebody in there see you know what, i'd really like to see how the view is on ten, would you mind hitting the button. they will laugh it when that really came in handy, i travel quite a bit for my job. i was on an airplane and you know, nature calls once in a while, so i get up and i waddled to the restroom. and i asked the flight attendant would you mind watching the door for me? sure,au because i can't reach the latch i think about how

high it is. i am 4 feet tall by the way. simon there doing my duty, waiting, the door flies open man.t's a what he say? i said hello. [laughter] i didn't know what to say. these why these points are important, they are chapters in the book looking up. things about the two types of growth, letting your guard down, making the first move and for me asking for help as a strength not a weakness. i had to ask the flight attendant to help me. knand i need help all the time. : : : earlier and i am really restraint, is not a weakness. the other piece, but also

important, whenever someone steps in, it's always important it's important that you try to have them say faith. that man felt a lot worse than i did. i sat in their little longer than normal. [laughter] and he said what am i going to do, i gotta get out of. , right. 250 people, what are the odds that he is sitting by me, i, probably won't see him again. so i come out, i was walking to my seat and there he was on the other side of the aisle. i think he was put there on purpose because it gave me an opportunity to walk up to him,

his face was already, so was mine i walked up to him, leaned in and i said are you going to remember this as much as i am and he laughed and he said probably. however, i'm sure he's not talking about it publicly like i am. [laughter] but anytime somebody does something like that or says something, and i go into detail on one of the chapters about this because looking up is about elevating the viewpoint and the value of others. we all have value. i looked up to people my whole life, literally but it taught me the most important posture which is to look up to people figuratively. because we all have value and were all dealing with challenges every day, you can see one of mine but it's not my only one

and when you see people and they may not be in the best of moods or whatever, they can about smiling or making a gesture that gives them a positive feeling because you don't know what they're dealing with, are they dealing with financial problems, are they dealing with mentall illness, are they dealing with infertility, any type of issue, you just don't know. the book is about why you can't walk in my shoes, minor size one by the way, we can walk side-by-side each other which is vitally important. and to get to know people just like this gentleman on the plane, we talked the rest of the flight, he was a sports person, so in my. and we really got to know each other and it started to break

the ice. the most important thing to be from the plane ride was to make sure he would talk to someone who is different the next time. that he would not shy away and never look at them and look down and look pass and. nobody wants to be overlooked. it was so important to leave with a positive moment. when theik plane landed, he gotp and said michele i noticed somebody lifted your suitcase up and i said yeah i have that effect on people i look up, i will not catapult that thing in their. [laughter] and he said, can i get it downo for you and iet said yes thank u so much, that would not have happened had i not started to talk to him and we start to get to know each other. when you try to influence people, intimacy always works better than influence. when youen start to break the ie

and you start to get to know people and let your guard down, you really come together with someone and move in you start to look up to them. this is important because all my life people said michele you need to write a book and unlike what about, about your life and i said we all have a life, we all have a story, i did not think i was ready to write w a book. so as my life went on particular as i started at caterpillar, i started to notice a few things, i may have something to contribute but i'm not readyhi yet. so when i graduated college i interviewed a catapult for instance and i got the job, 31 years ago there were the world handicap people or not very many. in big yellow hired their smallest employee. the type of that woman. i had a w variety of jobs, it,

marketing, parts, product support et cetera. when i first went into marketing it was in the north american commercial division which was the most important division in terms of sales to the company at the time in the 80s and i remember walking down the aisle on each side, all glass windows, the managers, halfway up there was a wall and then glass. so when i walked by, they saw from here up, they saw the top of my head that was it. and like making a running day i

remember the first day walking in there and all i saw was the top of my head and i hear people say what is that one right by the window, it happened every often. they did not know me. like i said getting to know people, intimacy works better than influence. here i went along the offices and i should not have giggled but i thought it was funny. they had no idea. one office after the other, the more i went the more i giggle. and that it was my turn to show my value. my job was to figure out what their requirements were so they could do their job better, what information do they need and feed that t into it and work to get the information to them. so it was me who had to make the first move as i talk about in my book to go in to the white all-american looking males, which they wereoo back then, introduce myself and they're going what do you want. i said i'm here to help you in one of them laughed and said really. and i said really. and we started talking and i went to all the managers and started realizing they all

needed the similar type of reporting. so i worked on that. and not long after that all the reporting came online and they started using it. and i would go back to ask how it's going and as they a got familiar it was going really well. and funny enough i remember the day i started walking back down and instead of all the hustle and bustle trying to figure out who just walked by it was michele come in, come in. and i would come in and they would say this is what i need now, this is great. and i would say oh okay. i cannot go down the aisle anymore without getting called into every office. because they saw value in what i washe doing. but they had to get to know me and what my value was. in the book i talked about don't we all have the role to play,

you have to show your value to people and they have to be open to see it because at the end of the day we all have three choices to make everyday, one is we all have challenges and differences,, am i going to live on the fringe and hide in the world and just let it be there or in my going to try to fit into the world as it is today or embrace your differences or youd challenges, treat them as assets and realize that they can be used to impact other people. we make that choice every day about what your challenges and i have to do it too, my parents kicked me in the butt when i needed it, we all have pity parties but they can't last long, nobody likes a pity party

but you do get down once in a while and i completely understand. to this day kathy and i are best friends, she has impacted so many people's lives and it all started in 1979 in june when i met her and when you think about someone like that in a friendship that long, there is something special there. kathy has looked up too so many people because she's now a hospice nurse, a job i could not do but god bless her. ofn you think about the type impact that we all have on each other and that we can make, that is veryan important. in the book i go on to highlight people who i have looked up to in my life like kathy and we all need people to hang around and lean on when something really good happens and when something not so good happens, i call it my kitchen table, you'll

probably go to do something really bad happens, don't you call a few people and it's like your kitchen table, we used to have dinner every night and mom is yourwould say how day. and of course when your kid the most d exciting thing is johnny puked today. he really did and it went all over the floor, he went into detail. other than that, how was your day. they were trying to get at, what did you learn and so forth. and so my kitchen table was very important in my life because there were days when i would get teased, got knocked down because i always wanted to be in the middle and what i would get knocked down flat and be in the emergency room my parents would say, you don't always have to be right in the middle of the action and second sometimes you

have to go to the side and not walk straight through crowd because people cannot see you. i did not understand that, it. kept walking in the middle. i was a weibel wobble, it hits and you bounce back up, that would bewo me. so when you think about it, who is your kitchen table. once you get yourr head around whatever your opportunity or challenges, don't you expand out a little bit until more people and i called out my village. i have a tremendous village just to come here today, i had people help me get here and fly here and get on the stage who help me around yesterday and your village changes in your kitchen table changes as your life changes. don't you come and go with friends that you maybe haven't

talked to in a decade and lo and behold something happens and you reach out and they reach out to you. it's like no time has passed. that is another piece that you have to ask for help, it is a strength not a weakness. so here's one word talk to my village on a great opportunity. i have been involved for non-for profit for since i was a teenager and it's a passion of mine. and caterpillar is a passion of mine because my dad worked in retired from cat, my sister still work to cat and the headquarters was in. illinois. i knew i would have a great global career working there. add the first 23 years and then i met a product manager office out of the city and my boss sent me an e-mail, all it said was it happens. and then i was like crab what happened, how often does your

boss say it happened or we have an opportunity for you. so i waited a while to call and i finally called a break and i said what's up. she goes, michele it happened and i said what happened and she said the caterpillar foundation job came open. and i write in detail about this because one, i cannot believe it, the job really came open, once somebody got it they kept it for a decade or two literally. it started in 1952 and is a philosophic caterpillar and you make investments all around the world with the partners, it was my dream job, i would always find myself down on the first floor talking to the folks finding out what they're doing. i always wanted that job, it was a highly visible job, it was so impactful with the most important thing and she goes you

want to put in for. but i knew i cannot to it by myself. so i went home and talked to my kitchen table, my sister and my mom because i knew it would impact them if i got this job. i needed their help to make this work. and they say go for, we got your back. my mom said but i want to see the work first, i get first dibs on all your trips. [laughter] and i said you got it. a bunch of people put in as you can imagine, my friend leslie on my behalf as a right in the book wrote a note to the person, hiring manager and gave why she thought i would be great for the job. i was one of three people he got interviewed in the hiring manager had to get it okayed by

the ceo. because they do represent caterpillars, the foundation, the brand, everything. and so jim the hiring manager, shared with the ceo and doug knew my work from the years before that, he always seenn my work because i worked in a lot of the areas that heid did as he moved out. he gave his blessing and it could not believe it. and so i called my mom and sister and i said i cannot believe it. then it dawned on me. now we gotta go. but i knew what we i would do te job because i was prepared. people have always said, michele we always have a way to make an impact, here is yours. so i got the job and it's one of the best things ever happened to

me because it opened up my eyes to those living in poverty especially extreme poverty. as i visited around the world for instance in africa they normally don't see someonehe lie me, not only a little person that blonde hair even from a bottle or the scooter so they would stand and pause but what is interesting when i would go visit school, the kids cameki running, they would go to another person to play with because were seeing eye die. in the book i b talk about how some people don't care what you look like. so many people don't care. here are these children as happy as can be and of the same aspirations that we all have here, i look up to them so much

because they will go get it too. they know what they want in our investments are helping but it's all internal to them and they are growing on the inside. i met betty who was a farmer in uganda and she wanted in needed money to help form her couple acres of land. i mean with a hoe, all manual. she went to opportune international one of the nonprofits that we support and got a small business loan whether one or $200 and as i met with her in her hut she said michele, i am doing this because i want my children toan go to school, education is key. the exact thing my mom told us, education. and they have the same aspiration for themselves and their family as we have here.

i look up to betty so much because there she is day after day farming manually, happy as can be, knowing that her children are going to be okay. it really struck me because it does m not matter what you have, it's how you think and what your perspective is. thithe same thing when i met the people working on living in poverty in the united states, when you go talk to them a lot our mothers and if you get the mothers and the girls educated in a way that they then support their families, the family gets out of poverty a lot of the time. so girls and women became a key focus for us. our collaborative platform is to work with all the nonprofits, just like we should all work together to help each other and look up to each other.

and it was called together stronger, when we focus on girls and women if you break up the word together it was to get her stronger. so people are like you worked at caterpillar, your a republican. and i said oh, i been called a lot of things. [laughter] but okay. and then other people you work for the foundation, your democrat. all right. i said actually i'm a cooperator. i think we should all collaborate together and i think you get a bigger impact thatab way. it think it's funny how we have labels and silos, i get put in a lot of them and at the end of the day i cannot do anything without other people helping me. i really look up too so many people. when you think about making the first move and how do i make an impact on the world, how do i

look up to other people, you have everything you need. it's all in the heartn and insie of you and take the time to get to know people. and a couple that i met don and joanne live in chicago, and i go into detail in the last chapter of the book called the real measure of impact. and it talks about the retired and went to teens anyy on vacation and they ended up finding a piece of land in the school where the deacons lift and they said they got this farmland because they wanted to start a school for children with disabilities but we never had the money. they were not asking at the time for the money. they started thinking and they went back and they got their kitchen table together, their

children and he kept gnawing at them. this might be something. so they raise enough money to open a school and it's called fofraudulent means comfort. and they had about 100 students and i visited there. at the time i could only spend a couple of hours at each partnership but i spent the whole day at the school. in six of the children were little people i noticed. in others had cerebral palsy and other disabilities. so exciting to be there, the children livedre there full-time and they get a great education, food, three meals a day, they

have everything that they need and we danced and had a great time and i talked to every i single student, what do you think they wanted to be. accountants, nurses, everything wery wanted. and they look up to them and tell them i would be back and revisit the school. what is interesting, the tony's have totally impacted the country of tanzania because that school is one of the highest performing schools in tanzania. now tell me that they don't look up to those children, children that do not get the time of day there at all. they are so well performing that the government has taken notice and now they make it so businesses should hire people with disability because the schools highlighting how successful they are in the school. and in education.

so think about th they dropped e couple with the school and how the ripple has gone automated generational impact because they went on vacation in tanzania. [laughter] i wish i could've made such an impact as they have. and when you think about your life and who you looked up to and who looked a up to you, rary in life to do anything all by yourself. think about and reflect what you've done in life and have you been there long or has there been people behind you the whole way, think about who you been behind and the successes you have made for other people. it is quite exciting. sometimes i take a step back,

for instance all the times my mom and dad told me michele, don't go right down the middle, think about what you're doing before you get into it. and i remember i laughed because i think about all the lessons went. m tommy and i was in college one day and i won't tell you all the stories, we don't talk about all of them and i was late for class and i needed to stop at the student center to grab a sandwich and go to the building behind it. there was a semi when i got out of my car right in front of the door. anthony surmised a really long and i pondered for a moment, that's a long walk around. so i had the right idea idl was going to cut under it. right down the middle. so i walked under in the engine started. i won't tell you what i thought, it was one of those omg moments

before we knew omg was. and i thought -- i only have one walked. that is it. i did find another speed that day. [laughter] luckily when you start a semi it does not take off like a car, it does other things. i hurried across and i got through and the driver was hanging out the window, i just popped out and he was looking at me and i said thanks and he's looking, i cannot imagine what he thought. so i go through life and i still remember those lessons that my parents taught me and i still ponder them because i want to make sure that i can be all that i can be, because at the end of the day the real impact we all want to be seen for who we are

and what we can be. in the greatest gift you can give anybody is to not only let them -- you can see them for all that they can be but also let them see in themselves what maybe they have not seenes yet. to me that is exciting and so many people have done that to me and i talk about that in the book in the people that i met with the foundation and the people who i met throughout my life that have helped and i get to help them back. what is interesting, and 2018 they received the point of light award which president h.w. bush started and it's about an award you get for service and

volunteering. , they were so well deserving because they totally change the attitude of b the country becaue of their school, not to mention the impact have on the children and their families and when i think about the main points of life and also looking up, to me it's like a a lighthouse sitting on a bluff overlooking the ocean and the light is beaming. and it's shining on itself, it's there to shine for others. it does not choose who it is going to g shine on, is sit and wait for whoever to cross its light. it is there to protect, serve and eliminate the path for others and it sits and waits. for me all the people who have eliminated the path for me is in the book. how i've done my small part

thanks to a lot of people, the foundation and other people who ie, partner with that we had our little bit of impact to eliminate the path for others. so think about as you read the book who has eliminated your path and whose path can you eliminate. and look up to them and keep looking up because of you is great. thank you. [applause] >> if you have any questions? thank you. >> how did the book come about, did you start writing or were you approached? >> i should've circled back.

especially after the foundation work, i started to figure out all the people as i said who have eliminated my path, who i see that are so uplifting and then i thought i had a story, i do not want the story to be just about me. it was important, the majority of the book is about others and the impact in how they made the impact and how you can make an impact in the world. the world is very divisive and divided today and we need to come together and stop using labels and silos for whatever labels people give us. i truly believe if we come together more we can more of an impact on everybody . . . when , we didn't always agree but we respected each other. today that is not the case if you don't approve me, utterly wrong in the subway to be.

i think we need to be much more collaborative and and the book, the title "looking up" obviously i look up, i'm four feet tall but i also -- taught me the greatest post steur and that is to have an elevated view of others. and i think we should all have that. we all have value, and as you leave today, meet the new people around you. the view is great. keep looking up. >> thank you. [applause] >> we have a question. >> yep. uh-huh. [inaudible question] >> you know, it's funny. you don't know you're different until somebody tells you. >> but my question is, she still

experiences those -- she is in her 30s now and also experiences those times in public where the stares are -- and i experience them with her -- that are just -- they're adults as well as children. >> right. >> just so intense that you just want to cringe for her as well. is there anything -- what -- she's very vocal. she has worked outside of the home. and she is the first to forge through the school system and things like that. she's really special. a huge group of friend but i've notice when we're in public, i can just see her kind of melt into the wheelchair. >> you know, i feel the same sometimes. i will say, it doesn't bother me near as much as it used to, but i will say there are days where it gets to you a lot.

what are you going to do? you have a choice. right? so, you just kind of try to move past. i do lean in more today and i will if someone is really making it nope they're looking or making fun or something. i'll go over and introduce myself. it's hard to think poorly of someone if they know a little bit but you've. right? and i do tend to lean in more, but there are days where i will just walk away. there are day is say a few words to myself. i don't reciprocate because that went do anything. but, yeah, my family feels the same way as you do for her. luckily, there's more people who are open to you -- remember, you can see our differences, one of them, right? we all have challenges.

the same people are challenged every day where we don't know exactly what it is or what is wrong, what is bothering them or what they're dealing with so we need to be patient and open and help them if we can, or acknowledge that they may be having a bad day for one reason but don't think poorly of them and don't judge them, because we don't know what happened. and so you have to recognize that in other people as well. but it is difficult. it's difficult. i agree. >> but thank you for your time today. [applause] association you're watching booktv on c-span 2. every weekend it's 48 hours of

nonfiction authors and books. sheers some programs to watch out for this weekend. tomorrow, we're live with author and white house correspondent april ryan. she'll answer your can he questions but her coverage over in the last four u.s. presidents also this weekend, syndicated columnist cal thomas offers thoughts on whether the united states will remain a super power. hiton megan kate nelson looks hour the civil war impacted the american west, and "new york times" finance editor takes a critical look at the history and current business practices of germany's deutsche bank. check your prank guide or visit booktv.org for more information. >> so, kevin merida, why is espn putting out a young reader's book called "the fierce 44." >> guest: for the undefeated, our platform, which focuses on race, sports and culture, we ha d