>> this program is available as a podcast, all afterward program can be viewed at her website at booktv.org. now on booktv we are live with author and white house correspondent april ryan, she is the author of the presidency and black and white, and under fire, reporting from the front line of the trump white house. . . .

>> i was doing a lot of work. sewing my seeds and the harvest came up.i was out there working and american radio networks recognized my work.

they said, we may have a position open and i said okay. i thought it was for a dc bureau chief. mind you, i had done local government. i even dabbled in washington. i anchored the weekends at wtop. but never in my wildest dreams would i imagine i'd be questioning american presidents and they would call me by name. well, at least three. but i did the work. and i started out local. >> local being baltimore. >> my home, my love, being baltimore city. i came south and said let's try this. i thought i'd be there - - actually, i didn't want to stay when i first got here. i thought i'd stay for 2-3 years. i've been here for 23. i started out being a reporter and i realized coming in what

power was. washington power was having a president call your name. the people who kept telling me i needed to have a president call me by name meaning the first president i covered, where people like how my brown. she said you need to get him to call you by name. i said oh my goodness. and my cousin, who is married to for congressman ed town. i did not understand the concept. after a while, i understood the concept of being a reporter with the president will call on by name. not just call on, but by name. and it made a difference. people will take note of you. i've been cornering bill clinton a couple times. this was before 9/11. a time when we were able to walk around the white house and run into a president more so than we do now.

he was walking around with sourdough pretzel and he saw me and came into the press area. he talked to everyone and gave salutations. i said mr. president, i'm one of your newest reporters. can you call on me by name? i will never forget then press secretary michael curry, the president keeps asking me why are you so hard on the issue on calling you by your name. i said that's my name and i want to call me by name. the first time he called on me he didn't. but the second time it changed. and it was a press conference with mubarak. >> 1997, you walk into the white house and you recount in the "the presidency in black and white" that you were ready to leave after three days.

why? >> it's a very different animal. when i say animal, it breeds. and there's a heartbeat to it. a whole different scenario. hurry up and wait. it's a push for information. it's more than a designer. it's a need to get information to push information out to the public. be it american or the world. the highest office in the land where everything comes to, war and peace and everything in between. it's a different type of beat. you hurry and wait. you wait for that one person or his principle. you feed on every word they say. i've never seen anything like it. and never will again.

the hill is a different beat. you're running around looking for all types of congressional leaders, senators, speaker or congresspeople. but at the white house, it's about that one person. and then filtering out from there. but one thing i will say, it was daunting. it was overwhelming. i was green. but one thing i will say is that the president - - i had to view him and the white house, this wonderful, historic place, as city hall. for me to take it and in chunks. it was the most interesting place i've ever been. but january 13 was actually my start date. we had been talking about the general 13th was the day. that i said okay, we are in here, everything was ready to go. and we started moving.

>> do you have an office at the white house? >> if that's what you call it. in my first book, people couldn't believe it. it's a small phone booth. many of the young people don't understand what phone booth is and we have to liken it to what it looks like in london. but it's the size of a phone booth. maybe to put together. claustrophobic need not apply. that's where i call home at 6000 pennsylvania and its prime office space, believe it or not. people fight for that little room. >> back to "the presidency in black and white", you write that my appearance in the briefing room was a red flag for some folks. what do you mean? >> back in 97, issues of race were on the table. to what the problem was is that

in talking to bill clinton and all the presidents i interviewed for this book, race has always been on the table. but the problem is, it doesn't always get asked about. by these reporters. we are talking about china, russia and so many cerebral policies and cerebral issues. and when you have issues of race, a lot of times, it doesn't lead until it bleeds. so i find that in the white house, race was always dealt with at a crescendo moment. and it was katrina, tremont martin or something like that. i was always asking issues of race beyond the crescendo moment. people would look at me, is she and milton? does she have an agenda? i was covering stories for portions of america that is underserved and underreported.

that's how i came into the white house. people had a leery eye at first. when they realized some of these questions i was asking for real. this is not conjecture. this is real. they started saying wow. it's interesting now looking back 23 years later. my dear friend joy reed from msnbc, she said april ryan has made race issues and vote unpopular. it's unfortunate you know, that, that's the case. black america, brown america, is part of america. why shouldn't there be questions, especially if they have the highest numbers of negatives in every category. >> what is a you are m? - - aurn?

>> american urban radio networks. we primarily serve urban america with news and information particularly about them we are a heritage network. meaning heritage, black media. and it's undergoing changes like everyone else. i say when mainstream media has - - on life support. and that's the truth. as you see mainstream newspapers folding because of the internet. we are trying to find our way as well. it's harder for us because they will go to the mainstream media before they come to us. we have an audience that tried-and-true. when others will tell our story or ask about it, be well. and that's what we do. >>. >> it was during the obama administration, here is an exchange. you write about this in your books. as an exchange what you had

with then press secretary, robert gibbs.>> - - she came out, some may have called her the belle of the ball overshadowing the firstlady. >> first of all, i've never heard that . >> it's been bouncing around washington. >> democratic as well as republican circles. >> april, that's not a station i live in and life. are you done speaking? >> oh yes, i'm done now. >> i have not heard the criticism.i've not read any of that criticism. the president, the first lady and the entire white house staff aregrateful for the job she does. and thinks she has done a terrific and wonderful job pulling off a lot of big and important events at the white house . >> was she a guess, did the president might her - - and that's a real question. >> jonathan. >> her name was on that list

and social secretary are the ones who put the names on the list. >> april,, down. when she and dennis? take a deep breath for one second. - - does the same thing. [laughter] >> don't play with me. i'm being serious. >> i'm giving you a serious answer. or she get the dinner? yes. she's the primary secretary. i'm going to get back to other topics like 98,000 men and women in afghanistan. >> aprilryan, you were visibly uncomfortable watching that . >>. [laughter] most definitely. those moments, i guess i will see a lot of those moments that will makeme cringe. i said this was my life . it does make me cringe because that was an ugly moment.i will say this to you.let's set the scene about that

moment. the first black president became president. history was made but there were also at that time, a number of death threats on this president. y'all remember the story, and if you don't, let's bring our viewers and listeners up to speed on this. there was a state dinner with - - the leader of india.he had had death threats as well. and an assassination attempt just happened on him. we were talking about the state dinner. it was the first state dinner i believe. the social secretary at the time had not followed protocol that was followed prior to in other administrations. mind you, i have been at this white house for two administrations prior to this. i'd even been a guest and

invited guest. at this time, presidents were inviting the press to come in. for steak dinners. i do the protocol. what happens, the layer of protocol had been removed where the press office would be there and the secret service would be there to watch the list. in the meantime, as the protocol had been changed, there was a reality show going on at the same time. i believe the name was the - - they were on the show and they thought it was cute for the reality show - - what do you call it, crash the state dinner. not only did they crash the state dinner but they got close to the vice president, rahm emanuel. there were pictures of it. my concern was not the theatrics of it, my concern as

a reporter - - i'm hearing from sources were very close to the situation. sources outside of this white house were close to the situation. sources from other administrations saying this should have never happened because of this historic nature of this president and the death threats. what robert gibbs was trying to do was show his loyalty to the then press secretary who ultimately left. >> desiree rogers. >> the terms of that leaving, you can take it for whatever you want. but it was not pleasant from the way i understand it. and robert gibbs was trying to be loyal to her at the time. let's fast-forward from that room, about a year or two later after i wrote my first book. mind you, that was tense. robert and i really never got

over that at that time. i saw him at a major tv network in the green room. i let him see it and he read word for word. he apologized to me. he, robert gibbs told me himself, he said april, i had to make you look lazy to support her. i said but the social secretary says you didn't do her any favors. i've seen her since then too. and she still angry with me. i saw her once in new jersey. new jersey is a hotbed for me i guess. she said, the ãi said robert gibbs was trying to be loyalty you. he said he wasn't loyal to me. when robber apologized i said, desiree said you weren't being loyal to her. he said let me tell you something, she rolled onto the bus and stayed there. the protocol wasn't followed. she was the social secretary who was different than the others. being a part of the event. she wasn't watching the event.

she had her own table in her own guests. but the issue was, the breach of security. the compromising of two men who are historic figures who have had death threats. and that's the whole issue. so robert was trying to be loyal to the van social secretary who is still in that circle. but ultimately, that circle was broken. she left. the terms of that leaving, let them talk about that. but the issue was about the historic nature of this president. the first black president was getting death threats and people artistry able to come in and get right there to him. that's all that was. since then, i've received an apology from robert gibbs. and i have talked to ms. rogers. she came in her account of the event. but it was ugly, but at the end of the day - - i've even met

ethan. he apologized. it was ugly. but because of that and because robert gibbs told me, i understood what the game was and how the game is played. and even though that was ugly, it showed me, without me knowing what was to come, the game board. >> when he said, april, calmed down. what was your immediate thought? >> he was making it personal. and he was - - waving me off. he was waving his hand point i said do not wave me off. answer the question. he made it personal because he did not want to breach that loyalty. but at that moment, i was angry. and i will never forget, i

wasn't angry until after it happened. i felt something third when you're in the midst of it as a reporter, you're still trying to get the answer to the question. but at the end of the press conference, press briefing, everyone laughed. i sat in that seat and stayed in that seat. i was angry. i will never forget bill burton, and says - - wants to see you in his office point i said for what? i was very upset. i sat there. i said i'm not going up there, for what? he acted like a fool to me.i have real questions that needed real answers. when i go to the press office, he proceeded to tell me i made a mockery of the process. i insulted the first lady. i said hi did i insult the first lady? he was bringing everything but the kitchen sink into the conversation. but at the end of the day, we

agreed to disagree. he wanted an apology but he never apologized to me until after he left the white house. and told me what was the deal. i heard from him and mr. rogers and others. but at the end of the day, it was an ugly moment but it taught me something. it taught me a lesson. it showed me the game. the game of politics. >> one of the chapters in your most recent book, "under fire", is entitled becoming the story. have you become the story in some cases? >> oh my god. too much so. i don't like being the story. i am a journalist that's so wide-eyed about helping people. i'm a journalist that looks at politics and also humanity, it's about people.

people who have a disease in their spirit who are still hurting. who are in need of help.but now, instead of relaying that, it's now i'm the story. i've written books to talk about people. and intertwined my story in it. but if you read my books, the first two, it's mostly about others because i want to tell others story. i don't want to talk about me is that's what a true reporter is. we are supposed to fade in the background. but the unfortunate thing is, with the climate, and i guess because i am that kid from baltimore west tried to overcome odds. being from baltimore and i think about something, a pastor, pastor walter scott thomas. elijah cummings pastor. he said you know, baltimoreans have an automatic word in their life story.

failure. the automatic is failure. but to overcome that, it's about survival in baltimore. i'm trying to ãi survived and i'm here and i'm trying not to be the story. so now i am trying to survive in washington. and trying to survive in life. because of the twists and turns that i've taken recently, i'm now in the story. you know what? being the story sometimes has saved my life. if i don't tell that story, people will believe the false narrative. and people will believe that truth. >> if you read your books, tell me if i'm mistaken.if you read them in order to getting with "the presidency in black and white", "at mama's knee" and then "under fire". your personal opinion is coming out for and more in your books. >> right.

the first book, we talked about "the presidency in black and white". my view of now for presidents. it was about the issue of reparations. and slavery apology. that was the time in washington. the second book, being a mother. and race and having it hit home in your backyard. you're watching the news. i will never forget my youngest daughter grace, when isis was rampant. she would get scared and say mommy, are they here? i would say, no baby, you're fine. but when the freddie gray incident happened in baltimore, i had to talk to them about that. i've asked president and people who deal with this about these issues.

then the last book, freedom of the press. and what i've gone through to make sure you understand that narrative, that lie that's been placed on me is not the case. i am not that person that you hear from on high that i am. >> we will go through all those in the next hour -and-a-half. welcome to booktv and "in depth" with white house correspondent april ryan. we will be taking your calls, getting your views. there are several ways for you to get through. first of all on the phone lines. 202-748-8200 if you leave in the east and central time zones and have a question or comment. 202-748-8201 for those of you in the mountain and pacific time zones.

you can also text a message to 202-748-8903. if you going to text, make sure you get that number correct. we also have social media sites and we will scroll through those. facebook, twitter, that you can also make a comment on. we will get to as many of those as possible. april ryan has been at the white house as a correspondent a long time. the only black female with a permanent pass at the white house. covering black issues. yes ma'am. she's the author of three books. beginning with "the presidency in black and white", which came out in 2015. followed by "at mama's knee". and then "under fire" came out in 2017. mostly about her time in the trump administration covering the trump administration and we will talk about all three of those. april ryan, again, becoming part of the story but unintentionally. let's go to october 6, 2003 and

show just a little video. >> the president has kindly agreed to take a couple questions and so have i. we will start with the american side an alternate back and forth. you are welcometo call on someone from your press corps . >> april you are not in his press corps. you are trying to play lecture in his press corps. i know but this is subversion. >> okay, the worst thing you can do is be on c-span because you guys have everything. what i said in there and i said in my book. that was the most awkward moment. first of all, george w. bush, i believe i had a decent work relationship with him. but also personally. and i was able to talk to him about matters of race. and i stood up. because we had enough of a

working relationship, i stood out like a sore thumb. so, that was a press conferenc . >> did you put yourself over there on purpose? >> no i did not. his press - - did in hopes i would get called on. it was just off. and they made a mistake.the president noticed it. he noticed their mistake. his people trying to give him something. the american press corps is like, what's going on? i'm a member mark smith that worked at a few, they said what are you doing over there? i said, they put me over here. yet the last known slave in my family - - i have no problem being considered african. but i am african-american and i was in the african press corps.

so there was a question ultimately. he couldn't help himself. president george w. bush couldn't help himself at the time. >> what's it like to be called out by the president at a press conference like that. >> you have to go with it. it can be ugly. do you make a scene? no, your people did this. or try to make light of it and move on.you are trying to fade in the background. how do fade in the background when you stick out like a sore thumb. what do you do? do i stand up there and say no,. you've got to pick your battles and learn how to fight another day. if i make a scene in any room. i'm drawn out. and i can ask the questions necessary for certain

communities. >> has it been different covering this president as the other three you've covered. >> i wanted to ask you what did you think, yeah of course. you can see it. you've got tape of it. most definitely. has it been different? he's a different type of president. he's a different person. he's not as he says, the traditional president. he is not. in any way shape or form. he is a ruthless businessman whose become president of the united states. and he doesn't like questions that challenge him or questions that may not put him in a good light. and as you've seen, i asked press secretary's, be it obama or whoever. the question that's on the table or the issue on the table whether it's good, bad or indifferent. this president has taken it to heart and has been very upset with me and has called me out and called me names publicly.

i've never had that happen before. i've been chastised by robert gibbs. in public. behind the scenes. i've had talks with many press secretaries from josh earnest to mike mccurry to ari fleischer. two dana perino. quietly. there's always some kind of retaliation if they're not happy with the question. but this is beyond the pale. >> february 16, 2017. >> okay. >> so we are going to do a lot of work on the inner cities. i have great people lined up to help.>> when you say the inner cities, are you going to include the cbc in your conversations with your urban agenda, inner-city agenda as well - - are you going to include the congressional black caucus? >> i would. do you want to set up the meeting? are they friends of yours? set up the meeting.

set up a meeting. i would love to be with the black caucus. i think it's great. i actually thought i had a meeting with congressman cummings and he was all excited. and then he said, i can't move. it might be bad for me politically. i can't have that meeting. >> april ryan, you talk about that incident in under fire. >> i sure do. want to hit the congressman cummings piece because the other stuff is a lot. the congressman cummings fees, late congressman elijah cummings and i were good friends. we hail from the same place, baltimore. the city we love. and congressman cummings called me right away right after the inauguration saying hey, president trump wants to meet with me. he met with him at the inauguration luncheon on the

hill. is it they wanted to talk about prescription drug prices. the problem is, this new administration could not figure out how to make it happen. there were a lot of twists and turns and bumps and bruises along the way. and he wasn't hiding. they just didn't know how to make it happen properly. so right after that, they figured it out. they had a meeting and talk about prescription drug prices. i go into the meeting. late congressman cummings at the time details the conversation in the meeting. there was even a misquote from the president about something that congressman cummings said. now getting back to friends of mine, for full disclosure , and this may have been the misinterpretation of the president. i am related to a former congressman, congressman ed

towns from new york. congressman towles and i, it's so crazy. he is my cousin on my mother side. i would call him to confirm things and he would be like, how did you get that? he was shocked - - i was not calling him for information. i would just get him periodically to confirm information. because you always have to confirm sources. so people may havetold him . i met the president then president trump through ed towns at a clinton fundraiser ã a fundraiser for my cousin ed towns. i had never been to a fundraiser. by him being my cousin i said hey, i'd like to see what happens at these fundraisers. i never contributed to any politician. to this day, no one knows if

i'm a democratic or republican or independent. i was there and i met donald trump and he didn't find me one bit interesting so he moved on. to bill clinton at the time. he monopolized bill clinton's time so much so that the guests at the fundraiser were very upset because they wanted to talk to bill clinton. and take pictures with bill clinton. so that may be where he's getting that from. but also, he had a certain person in his ear at the time. berating me. giving a false narrative about me. a very good friend of his at the time who is now, left the building. and just a few weeks prior to that, there was a big altercation with that person between the oval office and the press office. it spilled out into the hallway. me at the oval office and it was just ugly. when he said that, i felt that was more of a continuation.

i didn't look at it as a racial slight at the time. i looked at it as more sinister than a racial slight. and i do see the racial slight. but there's so much of it goes into all this. >> - - thank you, miss ryan. >> good afternoon. >> i follow presidential news conferences or press conferences. i'm 78. i've seen quite a few. first of all, very often, most of the time, the president has

a conference on the lawn of the white house as he's in transit. where sometimes the helicopter is behind him spinning its rotors. and i find it extremely difficult, a, to hear the question that the reporter asks. and it would really be helpful if there was some mechanism for that question to be made clearer. >> thank you. let's hear from april ryan. >> i love bernie's question. he is echoing exactly. i am praying the president is watching this. you never know, he might be. it is exasperating. if it's exasperating for you, it's worse for us. we are trying to get the sound as the helicopter is moldering and powering up to whisk them off to andrews air force base. it is awful. he moves around. and just friday, when he had that press conference for thursday, i'm missing my days. we had the press conference in

the briefing. we said mr. president, please come back. because it was sane. he had people raising their hands. people were being called on. you could hear and he was standing still. it was a civilized back and forth. >> you got called on too. >> i got called him. he typically can't ignore me. for some reason, he feels drawn to me. this last press conference he kept looking at me and pointing at other people. but i'm not dead in the middle. you cannot miss me. he saw me and i'm glad he did because i have questions like anyone else. good, bad or indifferent. so we are with you and i pray wewill start having press conferences on a regular , in the building. not outside. not only that, press conferences and press briefings in the briefing room with the press secretary. it's been over 300 some odd days that we have not had a press secretary give us a press briefing. there's too much on the table for us not to be asking questions of the press

secretary about what's going on in this white house and around the world what this president and thiswhite house is doing or saying . thank you. >> from "the presidency in black and white", your colleague mike, terry or your contact - - mccurry is the man credited with opening the press briefings daily. he essence regretted his decision due to quote, too much posturing for the cameras on both sides. >> please change that because he sent a letter. he and many press secretaries feels there needs to be a press briefing from the press secretary. number one, as i said, the stakes are so high. just a few weeks ago, there was a potential war with iran. we are dealing with issues with north korea. we've got the taliban.

an agreement with the taliban. we've got the coronavirus. so much and we are not having a press briefings daily. if we hear from the president daily, that's one thing. but if we are not fielding questions and hearing from the press secretary, there's a silence. it's not for us, it's about the american people. if the american people are not given the information, they have no clue as to what's going on. it's bigger than eight weeks. a tweet is to say what's going on the ãwhat you feel at the moment. that you have the press asking or challenging well, so-and-so said this but this is what has happened historically. you need the press to ask questions. to flush issues out. if not, in my opinion, i'm speaking for me, this is not a grudge match. this is about humanity and about giving people information that they need. and we are seeing this back-and-forth right now just on the coronavirus issue along the this is life-and-death. everything comes from war to

peace and everything in between. life and death is written and spoken in that building. >> next call is michael in new york. go ahead michael. >> yes, hello.i'm going to say something that hopefully is not in a mean spirit. but april, from the unfortunate and send that happened in ferguson when the black, got killed by the police. her and many other black journalists, democrats, were saying how this was because of racism and it started this whole thing. >> i said it started with racism? >> you and other ones. >> where did i say that?do you have video? i would love for you to send that where i said it was racism. let me say this before you go further. i said and i will say this to anyone.

from the time blacks have been brought to this nation, over 400 years ago, there have been policing issues with the bella community. from slavery on two today. - - issues with the black community. if you want to say it's racism, fine. but there are issues between the community and police and the issue is the black committee supports good policing. they want to weed out the bad policing. if that's racism, i'm sorry. >> in your third book, "under fire", you say people have called you a quote unquote, ray spader. >> - - race baiter. >> they've called me a whole bunch of stuff and it's not true. >> i appreciate the fact he talked to mr. ryan. but if because i would like to point out what a journalistic clown and fraud she is. >> why am i a fraud and a clown? >> because, if i could continue

miss ryan. no less an important media analyst than joe concho of the hill and he's one of the very few. pointed out that when you asked a question that was irrelevant to the 21st-century about slavery. about whether the white house was in favor of slavery or against slavery. not reparations. i can see that being an issue now.you asked that question and he pointed out that you only do this to attract attention to yourself. >> that's his opinion. listen to be for a second. that's his opinion and i get it. but let me say this to you. and let's put in context. the only reason why i asked about that issue of slavery is because the then chief of staff brought up the issue - - there was a question about if we

would deal with a compromise about slavery and the compromise as it related to the civil war. the civil war was basically fought over slavery. if there was a compromise done, that compromise basically would have kept certain states able to keep slaves. so that's the only reason i brought it up. then you had administration officials, including the president, who didn't say anything or supported general kelly. that's the only reason i brought it up because that's still an issue. you have the cbc and people on capitol hill who are dealing with the issue of reparations. trying to come up with answers. that issue is still a hotbed issue. i'm not looking for attention. the problem is, certain parts of america don't want to deal with issues that some people are still trying to heal over. the issue of race touches everything. the issue of slavery is still a stain on this nation.

do you realize there is a disparity in the numbers of negatives in this committee we have not healed from. slavery is still very evident. there is a wealth gap in this nation between black and white. how did many whites in this nation receive their wealth? through slavery. it is a painful, painful reminder of our history.it's a scar. that is one thing i'm not going to apologize for asking. does this demonstration support the issue of slavery? because the compromise general kelly was talking about would haveallowed certain states to keep slaves. so if i just want attention , that's their opinion. but it's a real issue. if you don't want to believe me, don't believe me. what you got your history books and look. i am not talking conjecture. people don't want to do with the issue of slavery because of the pain or they don't want to give out money.

a lot of people don't want to deal with race because they're too afraid to do with the truth of the pain of the past. as it's still evident today through that. i'm sorry you feel i'm a clown and a fraud because i as a black woman am trying to navigate out of the pain of the past. and we are still dealing with it. thank you for your question but i don't accept your personal attacks. thank you. >> from "under fire", for me, it was not a surprise that donald trump immediately followed barack obama's - - presidency. >> there's a part of this nation that still feels they haven't received their just do and they don't want certain people together.and i'm not saying it's about race. but there is another part of this nation who never wanted him there. i'll never forget a conversation i had and i will

say it, susan rice. before barack obama, when he was president elect. susan and i have known each other for over 20 years.she's the former national security advisor and former ambassador. i will never forget a conversation on the phone when i had with her. she said we've still got people here in this nation who don't want to see him become president. i was like, really? i thought that the cool by third ãmoment had happened. when everybody was in grant park. i saw the spontaneous crowds come to the white house and just explode with euphoria. the young people from all the colleges around and they were chanting and the bushes were still up because we saw the lights up. people felt they had turned the corner. people talked but we are post-racial. no, we are now post-obama. what does that look like? it looks like this. you had people on capitol hill,

mitch mcconnell said he will do everything he can to get him out of there. he had rush limbaugh says he hopes he fails. why? why? and this president, his politics were built on earth -birtherism. the tea party grows up when barack obama became president. when you see this, we saw what happened in the 60s. we saw the overcoming in the march on washington. we saw the civil rights act, the voting rights act and that we had a little bit of a low. but there were still issues. today, the way they're fighting over voting and the browning of america. why wouldn't we be surprised that donald trump would be president right after the first black president? >> president clinton, bush and obama, do you think you have personal relationships or

private interviews with each of those three and have you had that with president trump? >> i've had interviews with all of them. i see president clinton quite a bit. i haven't seen president obama. and george w. bush send me messages through people every now and again. and i've had interviews with them except for after. on the first ladies have been kind to me. this president, i'm looking for an interview. i would love to interview him and i think you should because i am a white house correspondent. number two, he is the president of all america. certain sections of america, there are questions they want answered. i sat down with george w. bush on several occasions. i sat down with bill clinton. all of them have said i'm fair but tough. i'm not in anybody's corner.

i'm fair but tough. i don't have a personal relationship with this president. we recognize each other. that's for sure, but i don't have a personal relationship with him. >> ronnie is in chappaqua, new york and you're on with april ryan. >> hi ronnie. >> so good to see you on c-span. you know i've been watching the press conferences when they use to happen.and following your work and have read your books. i'd like for you to answer, to think about, what has been your greatest challenge as a journalist, considering what's happening to the first amendment and freedom of the press? and what's the greatest challenge moving forward? >> thank you ronnie. thank you so much. the greatest challenge moving forward is, the ground we have

lost. i don't believe he will get it back. meaning, i don't think that we will have press conferences the way they used to be.because the nest press secretary and president or watching what this administration is doing and/or getting away with. and the american public, i'm surprised they haven't jumped up and been very upset. it's not about us. it's just we want to be pundits. on a tv network. well, the press secretary that said that, sarah huckabee sanders, she is now a pundit on fox news. so that's kind of a double negative now. anyway, the bottom line is, i just believe what's going to go forward, i believe we are seeing the evolution of things changing and i don't know where it will land as it relates to the press. we will continue to do our job and talk to sources. but you may not be in the transparent mode of seeing the press briefing on television.

i don't think they will air a lot of them. sometimes we have briefings in the briefing room and they are not to be televised. as it relates to my biggest challenge, my biggest challenge is the threats on my life. because i ask questions. and have people who feel they believe a narrative, i'm a cloud and a farce, which i am now. some of these people just recognize i was there. as peter has been showing, i've got a t-shirt that i've worn a couple times. i've been here for 23 years. and i'm not going anywhere. my biggest challenge is to protect myself and those who are concerning me. my family. and to also beat down that negative narrative and beat down those that think i'm a liar, because i'm not. i'm going to continue to do what i do. i've got too many people who rely on me too many people who know when i say something, it's the truth.

if i was lying, you wouldn't be able to pull up videos and pictures of them of what i'm talking about. people don't want to believe issues of race. they find it hard to believe we are still in a racial climate right now. we are in a hot racial climate right. we are not seeing lynchings right now but we are being bullied. >> there is so much on the table that people find hard to swallow. i don't understand why. >> my guess is that supporters

of president trump say he is more available to you guys. every day going to the helicopters or whatever but he's been assessable to you. >> he is assessable but he picks and chooses who he wants to be assessable to. when you're outside, you can leave fast versus being inside. and asking the questions of those were there. not doing it ãis easy. it's not all about was friendly too. it's not about those who write this commentary. it's about all america. it's about the truth and transparency. information for the american public. >> barbara is in san diego. go ahead with your question for april ryan.>> i've been a longtime observer of c-span. this is my first time calling.

i was moved by ms. ryan. and i feel that that the press has made this president such a scapegoat of hatred and they are so irresponsible in the way they speak to him. >> i call him mr. president. you always see me call him mr. president. i respect to the office of the president. >> icu as total hatred. - - it's really hateful. and you give this president a worldview that he is a clown. he's an idiot. he's a moron.

i watch bob costas with him. and he asked the most idiotic questions. >> thank you for calling barbara. i'm going to tell you something, call me crazy or stupid. it is what it is. i respected as president of the united states. even as he has called me a loser. and they want to take my credentials. mr. president. he is the president of the united states no matter the electoral college or population. he is the president of the united states. and i'm going to respect him. but when it comes to the personal, i will deal with that outside. when it comes to inside, and

when you asked me a question. i've been there for 23 years. i know what people do or have done. i know what policies look like. i talked to sources were been there and done that. many of these supporters who believe i'm a hater of president trump, they don't realize some of my best sources are republicans who were in the inner circle. not leakers, but whistleblowers. i'm not just hearing from democrats. and i also know my history and talk to people who were in the room when it happened where it happened. when i come up and say something which many reporters will do. they will research it and that's why they challenge them the way they do. it's not because we hate him. it is because we see a flaw in something or something is not

right or it's told the wrong way. and we ask questions. i don't get appear calling him names. i respectfully - - you can never say i called him a name. i raise my hand, mr. president. because he is the president of the united states. and there are people that say, you still him - - you still call him mr. president. yes i do. thank you barbara for your call. >> april ryan, let's go back to the red flag you talked about in your book. presidency in black-and-white. do you think it's because you're a black woman that sometimes this is put on you such as barbara's opinion? >> the assumption is because i'm black and i'm a woman, i'm a democrat, i love barack obama. and i just hate the president. not the truth.

okay? we have not gotten to the place where we can look at each other and say, without labels and tags. i have friends who are republicans. high ranking republican. they would be surprised. who have gone to the mat for me. for people who think i'm a democrat or republican or whatever. because they know me and they know my heart. so i do believe there is an automatic assumption. i do believe because the president said so, some people have blind trust and believe it. it doesn't always mean it's true. >> as a member of the specialty media as you call it. >> explains specialty media so people understand. >> i will let you explain. >> it means when you're outside the realm of abc, cbs, nbc. i happen to be radio which is

the pastor child of media. and we focus in on urban america. >> you write that the bigshot reporters can get downright - - about losing a turn. but only when it affects them directly. cannot get intimidating dealing with cbs, abc, etc. >> no, because i've been there 23 years. there's a new crop of people that have come in. this press corps is so different. you now have conservative media, liberal media, mainstream media, black media. when i started, no one knew anyone's policies. we just asked questions. now there are those who were in favor and those against.i'm so sick of it, i just want to cut down the middle.

like walter cronkite said, - - works to listen to your question on coronavirus that you asked the president. then i listened to your report. >> you did? >> i did. >> on twitter. >> did you like it? >> i have no opinions about anything as you know. >>. [laughter] >> it was straight down the middle but there were comments, critiquing that report. >> what did it say? >> twitter comments on the feed. it was a very straight down the middle. >> and that's what you'll find in my reporting. you are not going to hear, i think the president - - in my report, i will give what he said and i will tell you what

someone else - - if i know it's solid but i will just leave it there. but i try to give all sides of the story. people want to call me a racist. if they watch me for instance on cnn, if you ask me a question as an analyst, i'm going to tell you. my job as a white house correspondent is to do the job to give you all sides of the story. he even heard the report with doctor sans a ghouta. on the president was talking about the flu. nothing but the flu. but coronavirus could be deadly. it is deadlier than the flu if you look at the numbers. i want to give as much information as possible. to the american public. i was there when we had evil or and certain other diseases. it's important that the american public knows and i tried to give them facts without my opinion. >> who was mary vivian? >> my mommy. my late mother. she is such a - - my dad passed

a little while ago. robert. they're in heaven now. >> what was your mom's role in your life?>> she was my everything. she exposed me to the world. she and my father are the reason why i survived. as i say in baltimore, there's an automatic failure. you're not supposed to get out. i got out because of them. they gave me all they had. my dad never attended college. my mother received her bachelor's degree when i was in 11th-12th grade. she worked on a college campus but she exposed me to the world and everyone. she always said i can be and do anything i wanted to be as long

as i work hard and get an education. she told me, i always knew you'd be in washington but i never figured you'd be at the white house. >> did she ever visit you at the white house? >> we've got a couple pictures at the christmas parties and events we used to have. at the white house. >> you write about her in "at mama's knee". another mother you talk about and we will show video when you talk about this. but a woman named toya graham. this is from april 2015 and this is just b roll you can tell us what's going on here. >> that book was actually written for this woman. the unfortunate thing, because of her life after the story got out, people were taking advantage of her and i did an interview with her but she chose not to go on the record. some people do that as - -

punishment. i grew up around that mall. i used to have piano lessons on the side streets. but there is something innate about a mother. she doesn't have to see the whole face. the sheep picked up that little boy and she said, not you. no you won't. she tried to keep her children alive. i can't get into the interview because i wasn't allowed. her story is everyone's story. i'm a divorced mother and you try to protect your children. especially when you cannot pull up from the depths of hurt and pain. some of us have been afforded an opportunity to get out. others are still climbing. and you know, i will never forget that that day. i was leaving the white house.

it was the day of freddie gray's funeral not far from diamond mom. i think that new shallow baptist church. and the fights broke out. and people were calling me at the white house, you need to come home. you need to come home. my children were about 13 miles up the road. at their little school. their boarding school they attend. all i could think about was getting home to them. i got on the road and listening to what was going on the radio. i thought it was armageddon and the world was coming to an end. and i got them home. and then i saw that story and i understood. my heart just broke. i understood. people look at it as corporal punishment. but from where i come from, she was saving that boy's life and he is still on the straight and narrow. and she was in a headdress. [laughter] she got up and went

and got her baby. she was at the hairdresser. all she saw was his eyes in his pants and she knew it was him. you see the level of respect he had for her. he kept going.that's love. when you're a black mother or brown mother, and he mother was in the depths of despair, and will do anything for your child.that was survival. that wasn't corporal punishment. that was survival. >> in your book, "at mama's knee". quote, so many black mothers had to network and work together to strategize for their children's future. >> yeah. it takes a village. my late mother always used to tell me, that's why we have bridal showers and baby showers. because when you don't have enough money, we all come together. and make sure you make it. there are so many children who were raised by aunties or

grandparents. it takes a village. you conspire to make each one. you never know, that child could be the next, what? rock hussein obama. the next michelle obama. - - barack obama. the next bill clinton. the next donald trump. the next martin luther king. could be the next mohammed ali. who knows? could be the next charles drew. if you don't know who that is, look them up. google him. could be the next. >> with the writing process like for you? >> it's hell on wheels. the first book took me 17 years. i'm glad it took 17 years. the subsequent books were only six months each. and it almost killed me. i pulled myself away from

everything. when you write, you lose yourself in your book. and i've got children. so being mommy, taking them to school and writing. you can be on the plane, train or automobile as you are typing. you think about something. write a sentence. i'm concerned by it. i needed a break. [laughter] three books in five years is a lot. >> betsy, michigan. good afternoon. >> how are you today? i have seen you on many c-span programs with your books and i've always admired your strength and perseverance. and today you said something that made me call. use the phrase dis-ease of

spirit. issues that cause people. i thought to myself, the thing that probably describes very well who you are and i admire that i wanted to say it on live television to people who don't have any idea who you are might get a glimpse. i wanted to say, thank you and i will hear your response even if it's just think you. >> thank you. that touched my heart. thank you so much. humanity is big for me. you cannot sit on that unique perch, reported on the world and not see people. this is about people. it's not about politics or policy for me anymore. people like sabrina fulton. the mother of trey von martin.

people like fred guttenberg who lost his daughter at parkland. just people. i think what we have forgotten. no matter who we are what side of the equation we are on, democrat, republican, independent, we are people nonetheless. and i think we've forgotten that we are people. that we are people were still forming a more perfect union. and i've watched people feel hopeless when they don't realize they have power. and that power again goes back to that blueprint from the 50s and 60s. people don't realize they have power and they've forgotten about we the people. we are going through growing pains. i watch people and report on people who are trying to figure the way out and call on the highest office in the land. i see a lot of dis ease.

i report a lot about that so thank you. >> if you were to recommend one of your books to betsy, which one would it be? >> okay, given her comments about heart, "at mama's knee". if you want to know about people trying to figure this out and raise in the white house, i would do the first book. if you want to know my struggle to try to survive in efforts with freedom of the press which i do believe in, i would recommend "under fire". >> lee is in new orleans.

>> that's my daughter's favorite plays. >> you've done a fantastic job. keep on doing what you're doing. and what you've got to really understand, there's a lot of people in this country, probably over 50 percent that are still fighting the civil war. >> your speaking to the other caller from earlier. >> i know a lot of them. what i wanted to say was, couple questions. at the time barack obama was president, i heard several times that there was anywhere from two-$3 trillion of investment money sitting offshore waiting to be spent which wasn't spent. as far as putting it into the economy.

secondly, trump basically takes the vitriol of race and hatred and a lot of different things and he's going through all parts of the country, listening to talk radio and that's basically what he uses to gin up his supporters. and he knows this. what i'm asking is that how could possibly we as normal americans do things to keep from falling into that category? >> lee, thank you for the question. when it comes to trump, when it comes to president trump and the vitriol, the people double as i charge everyone with this point use critical thinking.

i don't care who you support. we are at a time when facts are not always the truth now. i implore people to use critical thinking. when it comes to the economy, let's talk about the economy. when barack obama came into the white house. we were in a recession. i'll never forget before barack obama came into the white house. i asked president bush if we were in a recession. it was in the rose garden and i talked to congressman james clyburn. george bush was saying it's not a recession. and we were tumbling into a recession at the time. a full-blown recession with barack obama. unemployment numbers were very high. also black unemployment was cut in half at the time. he created a good situation for this president to go into. now, i don't know about the money that was offshore.

but whatever he did worked to help stimulate the economy. he helped the auto industry. plugged money in here and there. but what i will tell you is that this president, he owns this economy now. but, he did not have what barack obama walked into. he walked into a full-blown recession. some people were saying we're going into a depression. this president owns this economy now but, there is a problem. we see the stock market look unfavorable for a while. this president has the coronavirus and that's going to make an impact with the economy and particularly, globally. as many countries have been unstable financially.

so we've got to wait to see the impact now. as it relates to the economy, this is a wait and see. now we have an added strain with the coronavirus but barack obama did help this president with a great economy for him to sustain. >> this is a text message we received. hello abel, thank you c-span for featuring april. are you receiving more threats? can you share a recent one with us. how do you feel about tom joyner's retirement?that is from angelia in alabama. >> i miss tom joyner. he afforded me the opportunity to use my voice on his show. and i will forever be thankful. i believe there is still room for tom joyner. i love ricky smiley and steve harvey. but i still believe there's room for tom joyner and there will always be room.

what was the other question? >> they took it down. can you share a recent threat with us? >> for security purpose, i do not like going into it. - - they come. they come on social media. fear mail, wherever they calm. but the bottom line is, a lot of times when people give the threats, they're trying to scare you. but you just never know. and you have to be vigilant. and it's unfortunately that me as a member of the press in this country of the united states of america, in 2020, has to have death threats. and has to have a bodyguard to make sure i'm okay and my interests are okay. thank you for asking and that's as far as i will go.

thank you for my safety and security. >> bringing that up, there was an incident in new jersey recently. we will show the role. maybe you can tell us what was happening. >> i sure will. >> and it's coming up. what happened here?>> that was in august. in new jersey. so, it made news. what i will say is that there is a negative narrative created about what happened. i had not said anything. at the behest of my attorney. >> what are we seeing right here? >> it's not on my screen. what you're seeing is the young lady in the sequence is an

organizer. i was in the ballroom. when this happened. it's the event organizer and my then bodyguard doing something that i did not recommend. at issue is no reporter should ever have death threats. for ever have a bodyguard. the situation had escalated. i was on the stage. we were asking what's what. everyone wants to know who's there. what's going on? me getting the threats, they wanted to know what's going on. so i'm on stage, i guess they were working something out. i don't know. my then bodyguard comes to me and says miss ryan, please stop talking. because i had not said anything about the incident, the negative narrative was created

that i ordered a hit. i am not that person. so it was ugly and unfortunate. my then bodyguard was fired. he has since apologized to me for the incident. what i will say is, there were no charges. i've never been subpoenaed, neither has my bodyguard. these negative stories and this smear of me is not true. but i handled it. with my security guard. >> susan, redding, california. >> thank you for taking my call. speaking of journalism, you such a wonderful career. thank you for doing what you

do. we need journalists in the country. it's a very honorable job. i have two quick questions. what do you think, is it trump or what's going on with journalism that we have failed to see the importance of journalism? another quick question, you bring up slavery. i wanted to ask about economic slavery. we keep hearing the economy is so great but i feel like the media is not talking about, half of the economy, people are getting minimum wage. slave wages. people are holding three jobs to make ends meet. >> she has one question about

journalism and why is its perceived negative and on economic slavery.economic slavery, there's still a large portion of americans unemployed. or that are underemployed which means they have to have 2-3 jobs to make a salary. and there's still poverty in this nation. the economic slavery is real. women now as the head of the household and a lot of communities were rising in numbers. our feeling the brunt of that as we are running the household. the problem is that we are not seeing the numbers going into education and getting the kinds of jobs that each community particularly calls for. that's one issue. at the same time, there is still a wealth gap. that's economic slavery.

the wealth gap when you come to the black versus the white community. using the black unemployment rate is sogreat and the economy is great. no it's not. there is still a wealth gap and a great disparity between blacks and whites with income . it's going to takecenturies for blacks to make up the loss . not only that, with women versus men. so how does that happen? policy. i talked to the kellogg foundation. they are talking about something that will spur a change but i talked to them last week. they said tax incentives. how could a 3300 tax incentive help someone put a child in daycare when daycare for two months is maybe $3300. they said it ultimately trickles down. they did the math. but at issue is, there needs to be, in my opinion, some kind of

stimulus and also ways to get people into fields that are producing - - get them educated for fields that are producing financially to help change situations. but you always have people that fall through the gaps. journalism, john mccain talked about this before he died. the issue of a free press. when the press is oppressed or suppressed. that leads to this information. he also said it leads into a dictatorship. the question is, why is there such a hatred for the press right now? i don't want to give my opinion but what i will tell you is yes, the press can make mistakes. we are human.yes, the press can also clean it up. i also believe some people don't realize, there's a line

between fact and opinion and i think it's obscure. people don't realize they may be listening to opinion versus fact and take that as the news. but there's also this component that we need to see. we have a president who does not trust or like the press. because he feels their negative stories. he has a large following that believes in. when the press goes to a rally and you know, there are people who want to do things and say things to the press. it doesn't make it easy for us. now i'm hearing, they have people around them to support

them. i can't go to a rally. i would love to cover a trumpet rally. i can't do it. i just cannot. i have to be careful where i go for my safety because of a negative narrative, a false narrative, fake news about me. fake, fake news about me. but i encourage people once again. going back to the issue of critical thinking. i would encourage you to find the reporters you trust and that you believe in that give you straight news. not opinion. and then build other pieces in find the news and then build the other pieces in. find the news. because we are at a time where information is critical and were not getting necessary information we are getting a lot of opinion and has been but not critical information. >> text for you. because there are so many different types of media now compared to when you started in the business, how much of a problem has washington media pool become in trying to do your job and doing it professionally? if you could also define what the pool is in the experience

of media. the different types of media. >> okay, so. when i started. i've been in the business for 30 years. when i started 30 years ago, we had - - i was in school actually. i was hearing the term, information superhighway. i like what in the world is that? my late teacher, doctor wendell and hubert madoff were telling me. the information superhighway is coming. i'm like, what highway is this? it's now the internet. so the internet has been a blessing and a curse for media. it has challenged us to now get in that platform. being visual so you can be on the internet as well as audio and pictures. with that, when i started 23

years ago, the pool was basically wire, tv, prints, magazines and then radio. the bastard child. but now it's been expanded to blogger and commentator. when we talk about the pool, it's a small group of people, one representative of each of these wider, tv, newspaper, magazines and radio and blogs and commentators, what have yo . so it's a small group of people who go in to either the oval office, the roosevelt room with a cabinet room or wherever the president is traveling. to represent the organization that are looking for information. they feed us with information because we can all get in those small places.

so it has changed. but we still try to keep it fax only when we give these pool reports. some people want to add color and commentary and we are very critical. we need the facts. we are still a group looking for facts for the most part. the traditional group are still looking for facts. they're not looking for, oh i think he's great or i hate him. they're looking for facts so we can disseminate it to the people. so it's change. it's changed. i think it will be an evolution. i don't think we are finished yet. >> have you served on the pool in the past? >> i was in the pool a couple weeks ago. i'm every 11 days. for radio it's every 11-12 days. for other media, it's more because they havemore people in the pool . >> your responsibility. >> what's happening in the room, who's in the room. >> do you enjoy it? >> no. >> is it a chore?

>> it's become a big chore.i have never said this publicly. i don't want to be in their and be clear that were talked down to. i don't like those moments. they make me cringe. i don't like them. people want to believe that i live for that. no i don't. i really don't. but i'm going to tell you what happens, if it happens. >> another text message for april ryan. which book do you recommend for black women to understand the game board? ...

and i think the first black woman to run for president, if you don't have a seat at the table, bring a folding chair. she was before kamala, she was before mostly. learn the game so you can come back and teach others. that may be another book. that may be another book. >> are you working on a fourth right now? >> yes. >> does that flow from these three? >> no. yes and no. i need something that is mindless. i am burned out. i have ptsd from all of this. i am serious about that. always have to look over your shoulder. yeah. i have had to move. keep safe. keep my children safe. people don't want to believe

this. it is the truth. my neighbors are on edge to, sometimes. i need things that are mindless. i am writing a book. working with a dear friend on something. there is always that other book, you know, everybody write a book about trump. mine will always be different. nobody has what i have. unique situation that i have. if i write something, it will be something that, give people and understanding. >> if you cannot get there on the phone lines but still want to make a comment, we have several social media sites. we will scroll through those comments. hi, k. >> hi, k. >> i appreciate you. i really do. >> thank you. >> i'm a political news junkie.

i woke up this morning in i wondered what april ryan is up to. here you are. [laughter] >> i've been doing a couple of things. i've been around. >> did you really wonder that? >> i swear. i did not realize you asked that question yesterday. >> it was friday. >> oh, friday. april, i was wondering how are the challenges with racism and sexism change for you personally during your career as a black female white house press correspondent, or have they changed? >> thank you, ma'am. >> thank you. i'm still around. cnn. i'm there. >> how often are you on cnn? >> not as much as i was, and that is a blessing for me. i am still around and i am still

reporting. >> are you employed? >> cnn and radial network rate through all of this process. i don't want to get into details, but they been with me all the way. i so appreciate them. now, as it relates to sexism, racism, all the -ism in this, washington is a white male dominated town. i am a black woman. then i am asking about issues that a lot of people do not want to talk about. it is tough. you know what, i've been here long enough and i know you asked a question to help me or i know who will help me and i know who will not. after a while, you feel the vibes.

you know the rhythms of the town. i know the rhythms of this town. even the new crop of people that come, i still know the rhythm. i know where to go. where not to go with. who to go with. who not to go with. there is still definite -ism all over the place. you have to know who works for you. you have to know yourself because if you don't know yourself in this business, you will go up on a corner in all up and cry. if you know who you are and how to get it and you know the game and the table, you can play. no matter whether you like me or not, i'm a player and i'm going to play to win. >> arnold in texas. >> thank you, c-span, for taking my call. hi, april, how are you doing? >> i am fine.

how are you doing? >> i am an amateur author. i have a book coming out this summer in i specifically mentioned you by name as well as allison dunnigan. i appreciate the caller from michigan before me who say people don't know who you are. the job that you have is a difficult job. a lot of them american people, especially the african-american community love and respect what you do. >> thank you. that touched my heart. alice done again, ethel payne, harry -- there are so many others who have paved the way for me at the white house. they encountered racism. over 70 years ago. talking about, no, you cannot come to the press conference. if you step on one of our shoes, there will be a riot.

come on. >> first african american white house correspondent. correct? >> yes. >> during the npr. >> yes. the problem is he never had his press credential. he received it at the 100th anniversary for the white house correspondent association. on the board at that time. the struggles that they, the challenges that they had, they do not fall short on me. i take it with a badge of honor to be in that sacred state. i believe the white house is a sacred state. i believe that voting is sacred. i respect it. i respect the part in history that i play because i am in history now. c-span is rolling all the tapes from my novice time to now. i am a part of history in i respect that.

i take it seriously. they do not defend me or -- this clown and fraud is part of history. >> we have one more piece of video we want to show. this is from january 12, 2018. >> okay. go ahead. [inaudible] mr. president, will you respond to these serious questions? >> no. absolutely not. >> mr. president, are you a racist? >> what is going on? that one still brings tears to my eyes. >> we heard a voice at the end say, mr. president, are you a racist. >> that was me. i asked him three times, i believe. you know what, i still have not

come to terms with that question. >> over to now. >> i have not come to terms with that question. i do not regret asking. the reason i have not come to terms with that question is because in 2020, right now, in 2018, does not matter who the president is, supposedly as a community, i don't think any reporter should ever have to ask that question of a sitting u.s. president. dan rather's said to me, great dan rather, oh boy, when he heard that question, that was a good question, but i knew she was going to get it. let's talk about the lead up and the day that that happens. that was the king holiday weekend. if it were not for doctor king, i would not be in the white house. peter, you and i would not be

sitting here right now. that is sacred to me. for that, we were hearing whole nations allegedly coming from the mouth of the president versus norway feared before that, we had charlotte's bill. intertwined in that, we had this conversation from the chief of staff on issues of compromise. also, wilson was out there, too. when the david johnson was killed in africa. she was charged with eavesdropping when the sergeant put the phone call in front of everyone to hear. she happened to be in the car. they drug her name through the mud. in the background, all my sources, black leaders, "lack

leaders," democrats, he's a racist, he's a racist, he's a racist. you had hispanic and black leaders very upset about the nation. i had not determined to ask that question until it came out of my mouth. i was fighting with myself. doctor king meant the world to me. this is a historic moment. he was allotting money for the king center and that area. designating certain areas. i said, oh my god. it tore me up so much so that i left the white house and i just fell into the arms of a cameraman. from baltimore. my family is close to his

family. i fell into his arms to just salve on pennsylvania avenue. i could not believe it. i reached out to mlk three, martin luther king the third and said i am sorry. he said for what? if you notice on the back of "under fire," he wrote a blurb for the book. it still weighs on me. but i am sure it on him. he did not answer there, but three days later he did. that was, that question was making a lot of news. months later, are you a white nationalist. he kept saying he was a nationalist. the only reason why i asked those questions was because the

atmosphere and the words begged the question. it still bothers me today because, words matter. that means something to me. do i regret asking? no. does it bother me still? yes. if someone wants to play this back and change my words, no. i do not regret asking the question. mr. president, are you a racist, the atmosphere, what was said, things that led up to that. yes. >> text message, why do not democrats look at all the miserable cities that have held in democratic majority for 50 years as does her baltimore. >> her baltimore. >> crime, race and et cetera.

>> that is one, and automatic assumption i am a democrat. exactly what i was talking about earlier. "her baltimore". baltimore, chicago, cleveland, baltimore, new orleans. baltimore is every urban city. it could even be urban america. i am so glad that person texted that. "her baltimore". i grew up in baltimore. i have a love for baltimore. let me break this down. when any city is hurting, why do you point there instead of, look, there is a problem, let's help. i don't understand the disconnect. when katrina happened, george w. bush, and then brownie went in and messed up. there were still efforts to help. look at those people sitting on the roof tops. katrina lingered into the obama

administration. the obama administration had two cities that they put enough special protective, i don't know, they had special efforts for them. detroit and new orleans. they were trying to help the cities. ultimately, they worked up to the point where they did not have to keep them in a special status. why place fingers at a city that is hurting. i don't know about the corruption or whatever. instead of pointing fingers, if you are leaving people, that is part of america. i know people. like victor blackwell of cnn. to see him cry. that hurt me. when you are from the same neighborhood or the same community, automatic failure, why don't you help? why don't you help? it is humanity. it is not politics. it is humanity.

i hope i answered your question more. her baltimore is your baltimore. her north carolina is everyone's north carolina. her detroit is everyone's detroit. we have to stop saying i, i, i, you, you, you appeared it is we appeared. >> next is norman. did i get the name of your city right? >> i am giving you an a. it is an indian name. >> native american name. >> yes. it is called god's country, by the way. >> i have been to seattle. my daughters have, too. it is beautiful. very expensive, but beautiful. >> the san francisco of the northwest. i was going to ask a question about why, in your opinion, in

the 21st century there is so much nationalism sweeping the globe. not just here. i thought more about religion and i want to get your take on it. there is a real contrast. vladimir putin russia. being abused over there. in this country, you have these right wing evangelicals who are some of trump supporters. despite the fact that he says, his track record of not behaving in a christian way. i wanted to get your take on that. religion and politics. >> norm, thank you so much for calling in. >> it was about nationalism spread around the world and religion and politics. >> let me talk about nationalism my book, all my books deal with race.

i talked to a lot of people. to include governor doug wilder, the first black governor of the state of virginia. a very wise man. democrat. a very wise man. i have republicans in my book. i have republicans in there, too. doug wilder. i will go there and start from that point. i will just do a synopsis. when people's money happens to be funny, that is when race comes into play. when people feel they are not getting their fair share. they get upset. wait a minute, i don't want this to happen. that is when we get our backs up against the wall. i will take it a little further. when we feel disenfranchised, we feel like we are not touched by politics, there are people that still feel that way, obama, the bush years, you will not be able to touch everyone. people feel left out. they get their backs up against

the wall and they lash out. a very simple answer for a very complex issue. but, racism is it ignorant. a non-believer or a pushback from the truth. you do not have to believe me. google it if you want. look at the statistics. it doesn't live. if you look at the correct organization. that is what i believe. i believe that that is why we still have that. there are groups of people who feel like they have been left out. when other people say, look, we've been left out. no, no. you need to look it up. that is very simple for a complex issue. now going to the issue of religion. it is so interesting now. i have seen ministers it very

upset with people who espouse religion and -- that is a word we use a lot in my family and say, you know, they call on this god that is the love of everyone and hope but yet they are espousing the things that are happening and supporting the other issues. there is a big problem in this country right now with religion and politics. love thy neighbor as thyself. not necessarily the bedrock that a lot of these ministers are standing on. i do not want to call out names, but i talked to many ministers and they are very upset with ministers that they you still work with that are now under this administration. i just do not want to call out names. there is a big problem.

at the end of the day, we have to judge ourselves. am i joining this for power or helping my neighbor? again, it is not about politics. it is about humanity. i am only speaking for myself. it is about humanity, in my opinion. some people walk over humanity for the possibility of a president or candidate or even for money. i hope i answered your question. thank you, from seattle. >> in your book, "at mama's knee," you talk about being raised in the church. >> yes. i call on the name of jesus christ. my relationship to god is very personal. it is so coincidental. some of my best friends are preachers. i am always around in esther's.

>> my dad was a self-made man. i don't even know if he was self-made. standing on the shoulders of so many great people knocking down doors for us. he has a man that did not have a college education. he went into the military. he was in the army. he left a married my mom. he was a bus driver for a while. no, i don't want to do this. i want to own my own business. a trucking company. he and my brother worked together. that is what set us. he was a man who came home every night and he paid the bills and made sure we were okay. he would go out in the cold, like many americans do. i remember seeing his hands chapped from the cold. my mother would always go to the

catalog and by his winter jacket. i remember putting salve on his little hands that were chapped from the weather. he was a great provider. when he died, he had dementia. before he died, he was concerned about the death threats i had. what's the fbi saying? what is the fbi saying? i hope that my angel is watching over me and protecting me now. my dad was a tough man. he was very outspoken. i think i get my courage from him. i have her heart and i have his strength. >> and your brother? >> my brother is very laid back like my mother. he is tall. he is my mother's child. i am my dad child. i look like my dad. my dad was short. my brother is tall. he has a good heart.

he loves hard. he is my heart. all we have is each other now. we have our kids and each other. i would do anything for him. we are our parent's legacy. i am proud of him and i want so much for him. >> margaret. you are on tv. >> i love arkansas. >> hi, april. >> hi. >> i want you to know that i really admire your gracious matter with your critics. >> thank you. >> i think you are exactly right when you tell us all to study more our history. c-span has had some great historians. a lot of black historians like annette gordon reed and mel painter and gerald horne from

the university of houston, i believe. a lot of us, americans, have been taught a rather comic book storybook version of history and we would enjoy and we would benefit by going deeper into history and c-span does help with that. >> margaret, we are going to let you go at that point. we appreciate you calling in. let's hear from rico. west bloomfield michigan. >> hello. i have a question about news coverage. i just want to go over about your even in new jersey when the reporter thrown out. he said, a comment you made after was, when i speak there is no news coverage.

he said someone else was recording that. the question i have is, what is your opinion of networks that interrupt the president while he is speaking or in a news conference and they say, we will let you know if he says something important. >> rico, thank you. >> rico, i will not go any further. i spoke on cnn and i just spoke here. everything i said before and today, i have already addressed that. i was interviewed by brian. a great interview. he went in and asked those questions. go back and you will see what i said about that. i am not going any further. i gave you something today, and i will not relitigate this issue no litigation, actually.

i will not go back into it at the advice of my attorneys. you have everything that i said before. we have the internet that you can pull the interview up. and when it comes to people saying who covered it if there is something important, i get when they say that. what happens if you are in the midst of coronavirus and you have results from the primary spirit you have to pick and choose. it is unfortunate that we cannot always have up split screen. if it is a rally where he is talking the same thing, fine. you don't want to be redundant. something new. something to advance the story. i get that. i am not going to try to be in the newsroom or the news person's head or the newsroom to

figure out why they are saying this, but, in my opinion, if it is new, if it advances the story, i will cover it. i listen to a lot of tape of rallies. if they say the same thing, i will not say the same thing again. if it is something added, i will give it to you. i do not think it is meant to be critical or mean. if you want to watch it, c-span i'm sure is covering it. the issue is we have to pick and choose. there is so much on the table. you cannot have continuous coverage of nancy pelosi, continuous coverage of mitch mcconnell, continuous coverage of donald john trump. you have to pick and choose. >> every time we have an author on in-depth, we ask him or her what he or she is reading. april ryan is reading two books currently.

conversations and black on power politics and leadership. several prominent authors. and, un ambassador susan rice new book which has been covered on book tv. tough love. >> yes. both of them happen to be my friends. ed, i am just so proud of him for his book. it is hard as a news person to put yourself out there. he interviewed some major people and got there takes on different things. it was interesting to really hear some of the tapes. i am not going to tell you everything. i want you to go by his book. susan rice. i am not giving any spoiler alerts. i've known her for 20 odd years. there were some stories that i did not know. read those book. >> a series of conversations on race in america with different

authors. she has done this for a couple years. they have all been covered by book tv. booktv.org. type in april ryan. you will see a lot of these conversations she has had around the washington area. the presidency and black-and-white, "at mama's knee" and "under fire." thank you for spending two hours on book tv. >> thank you for having me. i so appreciate you. this is april ryan's life. >> if you missed any of her life, it re- airs right now. >> next, it is book tv's monthly in-depth program with author and white house correspondent april ryan. she has the author of "the presidency in black and white," "at mama's knee" and "under fire". reporting from